#emc | Logs for 2008-10-02

[00:07:47] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ping
[00:33:56] <toastyde1th> i think i just aced my calc test
[00:33:57] <toastyde1th> woot
[02:13:35] <gcode> kjkj
[02:15:24] <gcode> hhuuuuuuuuuu
[02:15:32] <gcode> yyyyyyyyyy
[09:20:00] <fragalot1> hi
[09:22:28] <fragalot1> fragalot1 is now known as fragalot
[10:15:05] <fragalot> archivist_ub: Well, I just ordered a load of µC's with ethernet capabillties, EEPROMs, FET drivers, and PWM modules,... Time to attempt to have fun with ethercat? :D
[10:18:10] <archivist_emc> :)
[10:24:44] <archivist_emc> hmm the cutter compensation seems odd
[10:24:50] <fragalot> trying to get my hands on some atmel devboards too
[10:33:24] <archivist_ub> adding compensation to two intersecting curves I expect the intersection to move out and up but it went up and the curve center point looks like its changed as two curves no longer parallel
[10:36:57] <fenn> pic?
[10:37:05] <fenn> erm. picture?
[10:41:32] <archivist_emc> just screengrabbing
[10:45:02] <SWPadnos> fragalot, I don't think you'll be able to do ethercat in software. It relies on inserting data into a packet and recalculating the checksum on the fly
[10:47:31] <fragalot> SWPadnos: Yeah, that's basically how ethernet works.
[10:47:42] <SWPadnos> ethercat is a little different
[10:48:16] <SWPadnos> the packet is sent from the master, but it has "miissing information", which the slaves insert on the fly
[10:48:57] <SWPadnos> by "on the fly", I mean without receiving and retransmitting - the packet is being output while it's still being received
[10:49:21] <fragalot> mm
[10:49:25] <SWPadnos> yeah :)
[10:49:40] <archivist_emc> fenn http://www.archivist.info/cnc/with.png http://www.archivist.info/cnc/without.png
[10:49:45] <fragalot> then I'll do it differently, I guess
[10:49:49] <SWPadnos> heh
[10:50:16] <fragalot> have EMC calculate the pulses, put that in somesort of array, push it over to the controller, have the controller start on that array, and sortof keep a buffer..
[10:50:50] <fragalot> like send 1kbit worth of movements over to the controller, have it start on that, but keep feeding more as it's buffer starts to clear out
[10:50:53] <SWPadnos> ah, so you're trying to make a SUB / Ethernet connected step generator
[10:50:57] <SWPadnos> err - USB
[10:51:07] <fragalot> SWPadnos: Yeah, anything that works, basically
[10:51:11] <SWPadnos> good luck
[10:51:18] <fragalot> thanks
[10:51:27] <fragalot> ethernet, as it's full duplex, sounds more attractive
[10:51:44] <SWPadnos> it's only full duplex in point-to-point toplogies
[10:52:04] <fragalot> direct connection to the host is what I planned on
[10:52:19] <fragalot> could do it via a router, but why make it more complex than it has to be :p
[10:52:32] <SWPadnos> OK, so a single board, like the smoothstepper, G-Rex, ncPod, or others?
[10:52:56] <fragalot> pretty much, yes
[10:54:35] <fragalot> I might make it have fan control, spindle control, various M-codes,.. basically till I run out of pins on the 100-pin controller :p
[10:54:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[10:55:09] <SWPadnos> are you trying to make something that works with EMC, or something that does the motion control itself?
[10:55:28] <fragalot> dno yet,.. if i can, i'll let EMC do most of the work
[10:55:39] <fragalot> like write somesort of plugin for it,.. I dunno
[10:55:52] <SWPadnos> they're called "HAL drivers"
[10:55:58] <fragalot> there you go
[10:55:58] <fragalot> p
[10:56:03] <SWPadnos> plug-in. geez
[10:56:10] <SWPadnos> what kind of OS do you think we run here?
[10:56:30] <fragalot> modified ubuntu.
[10:56:50] <SWPadnos> yes. we don't do "plug-ins" ;)
[10:56:59] <SWPadnos> shared libraries are OK though
[10:57:40] <fragalot> :p
[10:58:01] <SWPadnos> regarding your project, the problems we've come up with when discussing this kind of thing (which happens every month or two) is that feedback has too much latency
[10:58:22] <SWPadnos> so more advanced functions (like spindle-synchronized motion) must be implemented on the device
[10:58:55] <fragalot> Ofcourse, even if i can't get that to work, it 'l still be nice for people that don't need that
[10:59:23] <SWPadnos> since HAL allows you to do other interesting things (like running N motors from one joint output, possibly with some offsets, and maybe all synchronized to the spindle), we usually drop the idea :)
[10:59:38] <SWPadnos> (since feedback latency is a problem)
[10:59:52] <fragalot> Ofcourse, even if i can't get that to work, it 'l still be nice for people that don't need that
[10:59:55] <fragalot> :p
[11:00:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[11:01:14] <SWPadnos> remember that feed override is also a "real-time" function, as is feed hold
[11:01:32] <SWPadnos> and feed override can change the path shape, based on blending and tolerances
[11:02:05] <SWPadnos> so there's some balance between buffer length and responsiveness, even for functions that most people will want
[11:02:09] <archivist_emc> for what definition of realtime as its all digital and has software delays
[11:03:09] <SWPadnos> uh - there are two types of feed override that are done in realtime - adaptive feed override and feedhold. Those are always responded to in <1 servo cycle, so 1ms by default
[11:03:09] <fragalot> every user input i could move over to the controller, i'd move over, and somehow feed that back to EMC.
[11:03:20] <fragalot> even if it doesn't work, it 'l still be a nice attempt
[11:03:39] <SWPadnos> sure, the more people who beat on it, the better chance we have of getting a functional solution :)
[11:04:28] <fragalot> thats the spirit
[11:04:56] <SWPadnos> what assortment of microcontrollers did you end up with?
[11:04:58] <archivist_emc> I knows its going to be a bar steward, but cant see "impossible"
[11:05:25] <fragalot> SWPadnos: PIC18F97J60-I/PT
[11:05:32] <SWPadnos> ewww. bummer :)
[11:05:36] <fragalot> SWPadnos: (picked at random for testing)
[11:05:59] <fragalot> SWPadnos: also got some atmel "ethernet starter kit" board sampled,.. waiting for their confirmation :p
[11:06:01] <SWPadnos> heh. PICs happen to be my least favorite microcontrollers (with the possible exception of 8051)
[11:06:05] <SWPadnos> cool
[11:06:27] <SWPadnos> I like the AVRs. I usually use assembly on micros, so having a uC that knows how to use a carry is a bonus
[11:06:49] <fragalot> SWPadnos: I just go with PIC because they're a) easy & fast to sample b) I have more experience with them c) got the programming hardware..
[11:07:01] <SWPadnos> QuickWriter II here
[11:07:08] <fragalot> ICD2 clone here
[11:07:09] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I think you have a huge appreciation error there
[11:07:09] <SWPadnos> or something like that - haven't used it in a while
[11:07:15] <archivist_emc> heh PIC carry in the program counter os so broken in some of them
[11:07:21] <alex_joni> 8051 are waaaaay better and nicer than PICs
[11:07:30] <SWPadnos> well, there's no ADC instruction ...
[11:08:02] <SWPadnos> it's always add / btfsc C / inc
[11:08:27] <alex_joni> not if you use Keil :P
[11:08:35] <SWPadnos> that's C, ain't it? ;)
[11:08:36] <fragalot> yeah, it's a bit of a hassle doing that in the registers all the time
[11:08:51] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah, I know.. sounds like cheating
[11:09:11] <SWPadnos> it does have the advantage that you can directly address any bit/byte in the current memory bank, but other than that, I really don't like them
[11:09:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[11:09:21] <fragalot> my question is,.. whats wrong with using C if it works and increases productivity during development?
[11:09:28] <alex_joni> I thought about usign ethernut for an emc2 device
[11:09:40] <SWPadnos> I have one AVR project that should be changed over to C. It's about 800k of assembly source at the moment, so it's getting hard to manage
[11:09:51] <fragalot> lol what would be funny is if I ended up with a device that's basically just a dedicated EMC2 computer.
[11:09:53] <alex_joni> fragalot: nothing, except that you need to buy a c-compiler most of the time
[11:09:53] <SWPadnos> nothing, I just don;t usually work that way
[11:10:05] <SWPadnos> gcc FTW
[11:10:08] <alex_joni> for the older uC;s
[11:10:08] <fragalot> alex_joni: that's why they have "student edition" compilers
[11:10:20] <alex_joni> and support for gcc in the newer ones
[11:10:28] <fragalot> yeah, gcc works afaik
[11:10:33] <alex_joni> actually the best way to do things would be to get an arm9
[11:10:41] <alex_joni> and stick a linux+rtai+emc2 in there
[11:10:50] <SWPadnos> I wonder how small it could be
[11:11:01] <alex_joni> 20x20 mm
[11:11:02] <fragalot> |-------| depending on your font
[11:11:03] <alex_joni> :P
[11:11:08] <SWPadnos> fruitcakes
[11:11:12] <alex_joni> lol
[11:11:13] <archivist_emc> I hates ARM a little
[11:11:23] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I bet small enough to fit inside the kernel
[11:11:29] <fragalot> lol alex_joni
[11:11:34] <alex_joni> I'm not kidding
[11:11:38] <SWPadnos> I guess I could break out one of these AVR32 or AT91SAM boards I have here
[11:11:45] <fragalot> alex_joni: I thought you meant the hardware. :/
[11:11:52] <fragalot> SWPadnos: DO IT
[11:12:00] <alex_joni> I did something like this for S3mumble
[11:12:08] <alex_joni> some arm7 or 9, I forget
[11:12:12] <fragalot> * fragalot breaks his old PS1 open
[11:12:16] <SWPadnos> oh come on, S3 made video cards
[11:12:22] <alex_joni> s3c<can't remember>
[11:12:27] <alex_joni> no, it was a chip designation
[11:12:31] <SWPadnos> a micro?
[11:12:34] <SWPadnos> hmm
[11:12:42] <alex_joni> hang on.. googling
[11:12:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[11:13:00] <SWPadnos> I thought about doing that, but I only have 3 characters to go on
[11:13:10] <alex_joni> http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productInfo.do?fmly_id=229&partnum=S3C2410
[11:13:32] <alex_joni> 3 characters was enough for google :)
[11:13:39] <fragalot> lol
[11:13:53] <SWPadnos> hmm
[11:13:58] <SWPadnos> have you seen the Etrax?
[11:14:17] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I built a 2.6 kernel for that and using buildroot I built a / unionfs thingie, which I linked into the kernel
[11:14:31] <alex_joni> so I only had one 2MB blob which I had to upload to the board to make it work
[11:14:46] <SWPadnos> ah, so you'd still need external flash
[11:14:52] <alex_joni> I'm a bit fuzzy on the details
[11:14:59] <alex_joni> I think I uploaded it directly to RAM
[11:15:04] <alex_joni> using JTAG
[11:15:08] <SWPadnos> there are some ARM chips that have 2M flash on them, but most top out at 512k or 1M
[11:15:22] <alex_joni> it also had 16MB NAND Flash
[11:15:23] <SWPadnos> well, if you want it to power on this way ...
[11:15:25] <alex_joni> the board I used
[11:15:30] <SWPadnos> right - external
[11:15:37] <alex_joni> but I was only trying to make it work initially
[11:15:55] <alex_joni> and some support for boot flash
[11:16:08] <alex_joni> wth is that called, lots of terms elude me atm
[11:16:30] <alex_joni> it used to be on older industrial mobo's, before CF replaced that almost completely
[11:16:40] <alex_joni> some Flash memory
[11:16:44] <SWPadnos> battery-backed RAM?
[11:16:59] <SWPadnos> oh, SSD
[11:16:59] <alex_joni> it's some flash in a DIP28?
[11:17:07] <alex_joni> older stuff..
[11:17:07] <SWPadnos> solid state disk modules
[11:17:12] <SWPadnos> not like we have now ;)
[11:17:40] <SWPadnos> 32-pin chips, very thick, look like EEPROMs with a few extra programming pins
[11:17:55] <alex_joni> yeah, something like that
[11:18:02] <SWPadnos> also called DOM - "Disk On Module" or something like that
[11:18:06] <alex_joni> anyways.. not really important
[11:18:09] <alex_joni> yeah, that's it
[11:18:13] <SWPadnos> http://shop.trenz-electronic.de/catalog/product_info.php?currency=USD&osCsid=c1a4ae1c1d787a6437d1d0075d256598&products_id=213&language=en
[11:18:24] <fenn> ew
[11:19:12] <alex_joni> axis is ok
[11:19:33] <alex_joni> and the spartan there.. just perfect to fit some stepgens in it :)
[11:19:35] <SWPadnos> this one has the ETRAX FS + a spartan 3 500k
[11:19:38] <SWPadnos> yep :)
[11:20:10] <alex_joni> a bit pricey though :/
[11:20:13] <SWPadnos> yeah
[11:20:17] <alex_joni> if it were < 200$ it would be great
[11:21:01] <alex_joni> although I doubt there is RTAI support for the Etrax
[11:21:17] <SWPadnos> yeah. I'm not too familiar with the CRIS architecture
[11:22:17] <SWPadnos> but smaller systems have less need for lots of RT extensions, since they usually run optimized (and stripped) kernels and fewer apps
[11:22:56] <alex_joni> that's true..
[11:23:04] <SWPadnos> and you'll have interrupt handlers that are actually interrupt handlers instead of "interrupt signalled tasks" :)
[11:23:19] <alex_joni> otoh, I don't see an eth there
[11:23:26] <SWPadnos> the etrax has 2
[11:23:37] <alex_joni> oh, cool.. no Phy then
[11:23:54] <SWPadnos> it has one with phy, the other without. you still need magnetics and the jack of course
[11:23:57] <SWPadnos> (iirc)
[11:24:15] <alex_joni> cool
[11:24:22] <alex_joni> hmm.. 91 I/O from the FPGA
[11:24:28] <alex_joni> and 72 GPIO from the Etrax
[11:24:31] <SWPadnos> not bad for a small system ;)
[11:24:34] <alex_joni> should be plenty :D
[11:24:44] <fragalot> which comes down to the main question
[11:24:54] <fragalot> which one of you will build an embedded system for EMC?
[11:24:55] <fragalot> :p
[11:25:22] <SWPadnos> well, I charge $75/hour, and I expect it would take 1000 hours or so. so if someone has $75k to spend, I'll do it ;)
[11:25:38] <SWPadnos> otherwise, it'll take a while longer :)
[11:25:45] <alex_joni> my first uC had 85 IOs
[11:25:49] <fragalot> instead of figuring out how to make it communicate nicely,.. just.. do it on the spot itself, fix all "timing" issues :;p
[11:26:08] <SWPadnos> they didn't have chips that big when I started :)
[11:26:08] <fragalot> alex_joni: my first had 35 :o the 2nd had.. 3?
[11:26:25] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: 86HC812A4
[11:26:49] <fragalot> google doesn't even know that one
[11:26:50] <SWPadnos> yeah, those came a decade or so late for me :)
[11:26:57] <SWPadnos> 68HC...
[11:27:02] <alex_joni> fragalot: try without the 68
[11:27:09] <alex_joni> it's 68HC12 as a family
[11:27:09] <fragalot> I see.
[11:27:12] <SWPadnos> it was typoed
[11:27:15] <alex_joni> and HC812A4 is the model
[11:27:43] <fragalot> m.. I wonder how well my Xilinx devboard actually performs (Digilent Basys board)
[11:28:08] <SWPadnos> same as anything you'd design - it has no electronics between the FPGA and the I/O connectors
[11:28:12] <alex_joni> heh, they still have the page from where I bought it
[11:28:14] <alex_joni> http://elmicro.com/de/kit12_r.html
[11:28:16] <SWPadnos> if it's the spartan dev kit
[11:28:23] <fragalot> it's already got VGA & PS/2, and outputs for 4 axis..
[11:28:30] <SWPadnos> oh, that one :)
[11:28:56] <SWPadnos> the only major difference between the starter kits and a custom design is that the clock may not be waht you'd use
[11:29:06] <fragalot> http://www.engsoftkorea.com/home/02_product/image/BASYS_p_m_2.gif <--
[11:29:31] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I think that's different from mine
[11:29:44] <fragalot> I've always wondered what that lil' DIP socket on there is good for
[11:32:03] <SWPadnos> ok, it's mostly the same, but the pin headers are different
[11:32:18] <fragalot> minor diff
[11:32:29] <SWPadnos> and the digilent version has a serial and VGA port (or at least 9-pin and 15-pin)
[11:32:51] <fragalot> oh, my board only has the VGA port
[11:33:00] <SWPadnos> you appear to have USB instead of serial
[11:33:00] <fragalot> you must be thinking of another board?
[11:33:12] <SWPadnos> no, it's the Spartan-3 starter kit with a Digilent board
[11:33:24] <SWPadnos> but it's a year or two old
[11:33:55] <fragalot> http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?Prod=S3BOARD&Nav1=Products&Nav2=Programmable <-- that one?
[11:34:15] <SWPadnos> yep, I think so
[11:34:20] <fragalot> different board :p
[11:34:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[11:36:50] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: the s3c2410 has an ARM920T core
[11:38:04] <fenn> how good is ARM compatibility? is a program compiled for ARM9 binary compatible with ARM11?
[11:39:29] <fragalot> apparently, this board supports 400Mbyte/sec transfers over USB ... I'd say that's pretty good, beeing 8 times faster than the host you're going to connect it to...
[11:42:24] <alex_joni> fenn: beats me..
[11:42:40] <alex_joni> fragalot: any USB2.0 is max 400MB/sec
[11:43:03] <fragalot> alex_joni: USB2.0 is max 480Mb/s not MB
[11:43:29] <fragalot> not even USB 3.0 is that fast afaik
[11:43:39] <alex_joni> A Super-Speed (3.0) rate of 4.8 Gbit/s (600 MB/s).
[11:43:49] <fragalot> I stand corrected.
[11:43:55] <alex_joni> same here for 2.0 :P
[11:43:59] <fragalot> =D
[11:44:09] <fragalot> lets go lick our wounds in the local pub
[11:44:20] <alex_joni> meet you half way there?
[11:44:33] <fragalot> k
[11:44:43] <fragalot> where do you live
[11:45:04] <alex_joni> I'm 45 44 01.03 N / 21 12 40.46 E
[11:45:38] <fragalot> * fragalot grabs his GPS
[11:45:44] <alex_joni> (that works on maps.google.com)
[11:46:58] <fenn> * fenn wonders why we dont use decimal coordinates
[11:47:18] <fragalot> fenn: because base60 is easier to do math with
[11:48:13] <fragalot> alex_joni: meet you at 48 11 42.98 N 13 38 55.93 O
[11:48:47] <fragalot> alex_joni: thers a lil' place called "the loose moose"
[11:49:36] <alex_joni> well.. it's close to the A8.. so that should be ok :D
[11:50:03] <fragalot> :p
[11:50:21] <fragalot> 'sonly about 850km away
[11:50:33] <alex_joni> fragalot: where are you located?
[11:50:38] <fragalot> belgium
[11:50:44] <alex_joni> oh, cool :)
[11:50:51] <fragalot> :p
[11:51:02] <SWPadnos> sounds like Prague is closer to the midpoint :)
[11:51:13] <fragalot> mm, somebody promised me a cingular 8125 .. I wonder what customs 'l do to rape me this time
[11:51:24] <fragalot> SWPadnos: you're not invited!
[11:51:24] <fragalot> :p
[11:51:39] <SWPadnos> between you two, silly
[11:52:00] <fragalot> alex_joni: y'know,.. We've got a fairly big airport... lol
[12:11:04] <fragalot> http://www.trevoroldak.com/uploads/evolution.jpg
[12:11:05] <fragalot> hehe
[12:12:20] <SWPadnos> heh, yeah. that's some good scientific evidence right there
[12:12:32] <fragalot> :p
[12:29:33] <anonimasu> hm..
[12:29:39] <anonimasu> anyone up for a physics question?
[12:30:19] <SWPadnos> sure
[12:30:42] <anonimasu> if im accelerating something that weighs 60kg to 0.08m/s in 0.1second
[12:30:54] <anonimasu> ie, 0.8m/s^2
[12:31:10] <anonimasu> F=60kg*0.8m/s^2 = 48N
[12:31:24] <anonimasu> according to my calculation, if I neglect friction..
[12:31:32] <SWPadnos> ok
[12:31:59] <anonimasu> I made the question up to see if I got my physics stuff down good enough :p
[12:32:10] <SWPadnos> heh. well, the math and units check out
[12:33:23] <anonimasu> thanks
[12:33:36] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has this issue with mixing units all over the place
[12:33:37] <SWPadnos> sure. good thing it was an easy one ;)
[12:33:46] <anonimasu> haha, next thing will be to add friction to it..
[12:33:54] <SWPadnos> my HP 2-C or 28S have saved my butt on many occasions
[12:34:01] <SWPadnos> since err - 28C
[12:34:02] <anonimasu> and gravity.. but that's for tonight..
[12:34:27] <SWPadnos> since they have unit catalogs built in (which gives you the base units for just about anything)
[12:35:14] <anonimasu> :)
[12:36:03] <anonimasu> I'm thinking that the friction will be F=48+(mg*f) if I havent forgotten :p
[12:36:31] <SWPadnos> if you neglect the change from static to sliding friction, it should be something like that
[12:36:40] <anonimasu> F=48+(589*0.2)
[12:37:34] <anonimasu> that ends up as 165.8N with friction, assuming the friction dont change with velocity..
[12:37:37] <SWPadnos> I don't remember how friction coefficients are specified though - I think it's just a fraction of weight
[12:37:47] <anonimasu> yep that's right
[12:37:54] <SWPadnos> (weight being mass * gravity)
[12:38:00] <SWPadnos> ok
[12:38:02] <anonimasu> friction would be (m*g)*f
[12:38:03] <SWPadnos> phew
[12:38:28] <anonimasu> I figured this stuff would be more interesting if you plug it into a cnc machine calculation ;)
[12:38:52] <SWPadnos> heh
[12:39:04] <fragalot> alex_joni: http://omploader.org/vb3ll & http://omploader.org/vb3lk thse are 2 questions from last years exam I had
[12:39:10] <SWPadnos> I don't know the gooeyness equations though (for way oil and stuff)
[12:39:36] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[12:40:01] <anonimasu> fragalot: what the hell are you studying :p
[12:40:06] <anonimasu> scary questions; )
[12:40:08] <fragalot> anonimasu: Electronics-ICT.. you?
[12:40:09] <SWPadnos> dynamics
[12:40:18] <fragalot> :p
[12:40:20] <anonimasu> uh.. preparatory stuff for getting into a university
[12:40:54] <anonimasu> I've decided to go for mechatronics engineering :p
[12:40:56] <anonimasu> robots and stuff ;)
[12:40:59] <fragalot> cool
[12:41:10] <anonimasu> but im getting old :p
[12:41:19] <anonimasu> (I'm 24 already)
[12:41:24] <fragalot> meh, i'm 18 and my lab partner is 56yo..
[12:41:31] <fragalot> well was
[12:42:16] <anonimasu> I've got to leave for a bit, going to head to work and rest/work um.. look busy
[12:42:21] <anonimasu> :p
[12:42:26] <fragalot> hehe
[12:42:30] <anonimasu> fragalot: does my calc add up?
[12:42:39] <fragalot> dno wasn't following o.0
[12:43:04] <anonimasu> fragalot: in short 60kg at 0.08m/s in 0.1sec
[12:43:27] <anonimasu> fragalot: I get that to 48N
[12:43:34] <fragalot> you mean 0.08m/s² ?
[12:43:47] <fragalot> sounds about right
[12:43:52] <anonimasu> no
[12:43:55] <anonimasu> I mean velocity
[12:44:05] <anonimasu> a = 0.8m/s^2
[12:44:14] <fragalot> ah
[12:44:47] <anonimasu> and with friction and a gravity coefficient of 0.2 I get that to 165.8N
[12:45:27] <anonimasu> ie F=(m*a)+(mg)f
[12:45:57] <fragalot> all you do really is calc the weight in N for the friction, ofcourse thers a difference between the static and dynamic friction coefficient, gravity only comes into play for converting the 60kg to newtons (* 9.81)
[12:46:06] <anonimasu> F=48+(48*9.82)*0.2
[12:46:16] <anonimasu> like that
[12:46:35] <fragalot> oops, 9.82 :p
[12:46:43] <anonimasu> (im in sweden -_-)
[12:46:44] <fragalot> it's been nearly a year since i've had this stuff
[12:47:09] <anonimasu> one newton is 9.81 though, and the gravity coefficient is 9.82 here :p
[12:47:14] <anonimasu> it's kind of disturbing.
[12:47:34] <fragalot> irl they work with 10 anyways.
[12:47:34] <fragalot> :p
[12:47:38] <SWPadnos> I'd bet that consistent rounding would fix that problem
[12:47:45] <anonimasu> haha :)
[12:47:47] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[12:48:16] <anonimasu> thanks for the help!
[12:48:32] <fragalot> most engineers after they graduate work with 10 instead of 9.81, since (following the rules for scientific rounding) they won't gain any accuracy anyway
[12:48:49] <anonimasu> fragalot: im going to have a shot at your airplane calculation later tonight..
[12:49:05] <fragalot> anonimasu: have fun, I flunked it.
[12:49:07] <fragalot> :p
[12:49:10] <anonimasu> it's probably way over my head :p
[12:49:21] <fragalot> anonimasu: take the fuel consumption into account aswell!
[12:49:33] <anonimasu> haha damn.. that gets hard ^_^
[12:49:37] <fragalot> :D
[12:49:55] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is only learning trivial stuff yet
[12:50:01] <anonimasu> it's like introductory physics..
[12:50:19] <anonimasu> prep stuff -_-
[12:50:28] <fragalot> wel, that was the question for 1st semester in uni. lol
[12:50:44] <fragalot> I ended up changing schools, .. it was madness there
[12:50:50] <anonimasu> lol
[12:51:01] <anonimasu> im trying to prepare for math madness..
[12:51:23] <anonimasu> I like math when I can calc real stuff.
[12:51:25] <fragalot> don't do what I did and take a calculator with dead batteries to the exams
[12:51:40] <anonimasu> my calculator's forbidden I think :/
[12:51:49] <anonimasu> it's a casio cfx9850gb-plus
[12:51:54] <fragalot> after the first 10 minutes, I got a nice " Dead battery, going byebye."
[12:51:54] <anonimasu> great solver.
[12:52:01] <fragalot> anonimasu: I use the TI-84 plus
[12:52:10] <fragalot> in uni most calculators are allowed
[12:52:20] <anonimasu> hehe, in the us this one is dissallowed
[12:52:31] <fragalot> aslong as their main goal is really beeing a calculator,.. :p
[12:52:44] <fragalot> really?
[12:52:47] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:52:52] <fragalot> anonimasu: that's.. madness
[12:53:10] <anonimasu> I think it's because the solver is really good
[12:53:36] <fragalot> doesn't seem to have stuff onboard that my TI-84plus can't do..
[12:53:44] <fragalot> lol, I even put the periodic table on it :/
[12:53:45] <SWPadnos> they banned calculators on us, but the better professors had problems that you could do in your head
[12:53:54] <anonimasu> :)
[12:54:02] <SWPadnos> you could leave answers with pi in them and that kind of thing
[12:54:06] <fragalot> SWPadnos: that's plain silly imho
[12:54:11] <fragalot> SWPadnos: oh, we /HAVE/ to if we can
[12:54:15] <SWPadnos> but you were expected to be able to multiply/dive by 2, 5, and 10
[12:54:24] <SWPadnos> s/dive/divide/
[12:54:27] <fragalot> so you can use a calculator,.. but it's only purpose is to verify what you've solved.
[12:54:37] <anonimasu> insanity
[12:54:56] <SWPadnos> well, in some ways it's easier if the problems can be done in your head. If you get something that you can't do, you probably set up the problem wrong
[12:55:17] <fragalot> SWPadnos: Aye. Same thing can happen with a calculator too tho :p
[12:55:24] <SWPadnos> like I said, you could leave certain constants in the answer (pi, h-bar, R ...)
[12:55:39] <SWPadnos> well, with a calculator, you get a number and don't know whether you did it right
[12:55:44] <fragalot> I've oversimplified a problem once, and I ended up seeing the answer in the question itself :/ somehow, magically, I gave the right answer,.. I still don't know how I did it
[12:55:50] <anonimasu> http://www.educalc.net/246080.page
[12:55:55] <SWPadnos> with your brain, if you're trying to get the sqrt(24579.3), you might have serewed up
[12:56:02] <SWPadnos> screwed
[12:56:10] <SWPadnos> (with well-formulated questions anyway ;) )
[12:56:20] <anonimasu> haha
[12:56:41] <fragalot> anonimasu: oops, mine isn't allowed either it seems
[12:56:52] <SWPadnos> mine either, and it's 20 years old
[12:56:56] <fragalot> owell, it's more fun,.. checking if you did the integrals right,... lol
[12:57:18] <fragalot> hell, the calculator solves them for you, plots them out,... you still need to do it yourself, but it's nice to know that your end result was correct
[12:57:36] <fragalot> I lost my normal calculator in chem class
[12:57:36] <fragalot> :/
[12:57:45] <anonimasu> :/
[12:57:47] <anonimasu> well, bbl..
[12:57:47] <anonimasu> work :)
[12:57:51] <fragalot> have fun
[12:58:01] <fragalot> * fragalot decides to study for his data communications class a bit
[12:58:39] <alex_joni> bbl..
[13:13:27] <anonimasu> iab
[13:17:34] <skunkworks> vauge question of the day http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65598
[13:18:58] <SWPadnos> err - spaces in the directory name?
[13:19:13] <skunkworks> oh - your good...
[13:19:16] <skunkworks> you're
[13:19:17] <SWPadnos> tree file error, that's a new one
[13:19:30] <SWPadnos> dunno if that's it though
[13:19:55] <SWPadnos> ok, shower time. bbl
[13:20:45] <skunkworks> take it easy
[13:41:00] <cradek> oh wow, nice question
[13:42:06] <skunkworks> morning chris
[13:42:37] <cradek> hi
[13:44:19] <skunkworks> when is the re-balling of the screw?
[13:44:37] <cradek> last night
[13:44:54] <cradek> backlash .0012 now - can't decide if I'm disappointed or not
[13:45:02] <cradek> I might let it wear in for a while and try again
[13:45:57] <skunkworks> just a bit bigger?
[13:46:28] <cradek> no, I'd have to go smaller again, and put them in both circuits I think
[13:46:56] <cradek> I must not understand something about how the balls fit in there, because my math keeps giving me answers that are too large
[13:47:24] <cradek> it could be that there is no size of ball that will give perfect results, because the inside of the nut is bad
[13:47:54] <skunkworks> right
[13:48:01] <anonimasu> hm..
[13:48:15] <anonimasu> I got the quote for the bearings..
[13:48:19] <anonimasu> 500eur each :p
[14:22:41] <fragalot> any1 here good at networking? (extended subnet masks basic stuf..)
[14:24:57] <SWPadnos> uh, probably
[14:30:13] <fragalot> nvm, got it
[14:30:13] <fragalot> :p
[14:30:21] <SWPadnos> ok
[14:34:27] <anonimasu> hello
[14:36:57] <anonimasu> http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Tribology/co_of_frict.htm#coef
[14:37:13] <anonimasu> hm, seems like they didnt manage to measure dry friction of cast iron
[14:38:36] <archivist_emc> heh cast can be odd
[14:39:20] <anonimasu> well, machines are made out of cast iron :p
[14:42:11] <archivist_emc> hmm my best bit of cast iron work is not on my webserver
[14:45:15] <anonimasu> :)
[14:45:37] <archivist_ub> found it!
[14:46:30] <anonimasu> :)
[14:47:41] <archivist_ub> http://www.archivist.info/collection/showresult.php?searchv4page=1&errlev=0&searchstr=pendulum&srcdata=title&srcprog=searchv10.php&Type=PD&Accn_no=5695&dir=2006_09_07_pendulum&file=P9072699.JPG&subject=14974
[14:48:32] <archivist_ub> http://www.archivist.info/collection/showresult.php?searchv4page=1&errlev=0&searchstr=pendulum&srcdata=title&srcprog=searchv10.php&Type=PD&Accn_no=5697&dir=2006_09_07_pendulum&file=P9072701.JPG&subject=14976
[14:48:32] <fragalot> *clicksmooth
[14:49:15] <fragalot> mm, that's about the same size chuck i had flying over my shoulder back in highschool
[14:49:49] <archivist_ub> continuous cast rod
[14:49:57] <fragalot> archivist_ub: is it me, or is that a rather.. big pendulum :p
[14:50:04] <archivist_ub> took a wonderful polish
[14:50:31] <fragalot> looks like it
[14:50:52] <archivist_ub> was for a mercury temperature compensated pendulum so its bored out
[14:50:54] <fragalot> also, that script you use as the gallery shouldn't be using HTML only to resize the image >.> it takes 50 seconds to load the thumbnail
[14:51:26] <fragalot> archivist_ub: ah
[14:51:34] <archivist_ub> script is designed for local use I am adding thumbs to it
[14:52:05] <cradek> very nice! what is the material?
[14:52:10] <fragalot> it would be easy to have php to resize the image tho
[14:52:16] <archivist_ub> cast iron
[14:52:17] <fragalot> and cleaner
[14:52:31] <cradek> and how did you turn that taper? I don't see a compound
[14:52:35] <archivist_ub> I make thumbs with php
[14:52:56] <archivist_ub> rotated the topslide
[14:53:47] <jepler> ooh it's pretty and shiny
[14:54:19] <archivist_ub> it was far too large for the lathe took some bodging to do
[14:55:18] <archivist_ub> like carbide tipped masonry drill ground to get the bulk out
[14:56:14] <fragalot> O.O
[14:57:38] <fragalot> archivist_ub: http://www.secotools.com/upload/international/products/drilling/Drilling-samlingsbild1.jpg <-- those, or actual stone drills?
[14:58:06] <archivist_ub> and reamers modded to drill and milling cutters abused on the end of a bar
[14:58:30] <archivist_ub> no stone drills
[14:59:13] <archivist_ub> one reamer got its own back, it was only case hardened
[15:18:13] <fragalot> I think I just had (kinda) an idea again for the networking thing.. What if we do it the way IBM used to do it with their ring topology?
[15:18:32] <fragalot> eg. pass a token arround, who'mever has the token is allowed to talk,.. and just have them take turns between each package
[15:19:06] <SWPadnos> how about RTNet instead?
[15:19:20] <fragalot> I thought you were the one claiming that wouldn't be possible?
[15:19:43] <fragalot> wait, diff. thing
[15:19:47] <fragalot> * fragalot looks into RTnet
[15:22:56] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:23:10] <SWPadnos> USB is not so great. RTNet could be fine
[15:24:19] <Jymm> ethernet!!!!
[15:24:43] <fragalot> no, i meant ethercat before
[15:24:52] <fragalot> rtnet looks simpler
[15:27:57] <archivist_emc> there is a low cost system that uses a similar idea to mitsubishi on that commands have a timestamp so the drive can interpolate they also pass /delay the clock so they are synced
[15:28:50] <fragalot> mm, sounds good
[15:33:21] <fragalot> just wondering,.. is it possible to "bitbang" the ethernet port? :p
[15:33:36] <archivist_ub> no thats hardware
[15:33:55] <archivist_ub> I hate the term bitbang
[15:34:04] <fragalot> it's just a term
[15:34:20] <fragalot> would be nice if you could tho :( would instantly have solved my problems, :p
[15:34:50] <skunkworks> heh - even 10baset would be in the 10mhz atleast.
[15:37:14] <fragalot> skunkworks: which is why I wondered if there was just a way to basically use it instead of the parport w/o the need for additional hardware
[16:00:20] <fragalot> * fragalot starts to randomly ponder if the µC couldn't just parse the G-code on it's own
[16:01:56] <anonimasu_> lol
[16:02:06] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ is still into this physics stuff
[16:02:10] <fragalot> :D
[16:02:51] <anonimasu_> trying to get this friction stuff down..
[16:04:11] <fragalot> anonimasu_: do you have to be able to calculate if it topples over, or slides away?
[16:05:10] <anonimasu_> I only need to know that friction ends up 0.25% of the normal force on a surface..
[16:05:16] <anonimasu_> or whatever the friction coefficient is..
[16:05:24] <fragalot> k
[16:05:27] <anonimasu_> 48N to accelerate the table up to speed.. and 41.2 newton more to get it moving..
[16:06:20] <anonimasu_> 89.2N to get the table moving from a standstill acceleration 0.8m/s^2
[16:06:43] <anonimasu_> if im calculating it right
[16:06:47] <archivist_ub> and a fat facemill chomping the work
[16:07:30] <anonimasu_> however it dosent quite match up
[16:09:39] <anonimasu_> if I get this right, you need to overcome the static friction, then the resultant of the forces becomes > 0 and whatever you are moving starts to move
[16:10:21] <anonimasu_> and then you start another calculation for the dynamic friction..(dont you)
[16:11:53] <toastatwork> yep
[16:12:42] <archivist_ub> get a spring balance push/pull against the axis in question, measure
[16:12:53] <anonimasu_> uh.. im doing physics homework.
[16:13:10] <archivist_ub> er wot maffs
[16:13:23] <anonimasu_> ?
[16:13:30] <toastatwork> anonimasu_: you are correct, dood
[16:13:39] <anonimasu_> toastatwork: at what point?
[16:13:46] <anonimasu_> making it split
[16:13:53] <toastatwork> µ_s for f = 0, then µ_k for f = ma
[16:13:55] <anonimasu_> because you dont need more force then to overcome the static friction at first..
[16:14:07] <anonimasu_> then you need the force to accelerate up to speed..
[16:14:17] <fenn> fragalot: i think the general idea is to port EMC to ARM chips
[16:14:20] <anonimasu_> so in reality it's just the higher value you need to take into account..
[16:14:31] <toastatwork> yep.
[16:14:34] <anonimasu_> if the static friction is higher then the kinetic friction
[16:14:41] <anonimasu_> or sliding(whatever they call it)
[16:14:51] <toastatwork> if kinetic was higher than static i'd lol
[16:15:09] <anonimasu_> :)
[16:15:10] <anonimasu_> yep
[16:15:18] <SWPadnos> I'd say that static friction is always higher than sliding, but there's probably some exotic material that would prove me wrong
[16:15:19] <anonimasu_> I added them togther and that ended up too insane..
[16:15:25] <anonimasu_> haha yep
[16:15:34] <archivist_ub> toastatwork, thixotropic grease and camera lens threads then it is
[16:16:17] <toastatwork> camera lens threads?
[16:16:26] <anonimasu_> toastatwork: I still miss one piece of this..
[16:16:27] <SWPadnos> you need to overcome static friction, or you get zero acceleration. Once that's overcome, you can reduce force since sliding friction is lower (or you get higher accel, since more of the force is going into accel instead of overcoming friction)
[16:16:30] <archivist_ub> I put the wrong grade on once near locked it up
[16:16:47] <toastatwork> lol
[16:16:51] <toastatwork> anonimasu_: ?
[16:17:34] <archivist_ub> toastatwork, yes focus action, its the grease thats doing the work also on potentiometers on hifi
[16:19:13] <anonimasu_> if the static friction ends up as 0.07 for cast iron with oil film that gives me 41N in friction against the slide..
[16:19:14] <toastatwork> bloody hell wireless
[16:19:52] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ really needs a friction vs force graph
[16:20:14] <anonimasu_> wb
[16:20:29] <anonimasu_> toastatw1rk: if the static friction ends up as 0.07 for cast iron with oil film that gives me 41N in friction against the slide..
[16:21:10] <toastatw1rk> k
[16:21:12] <anonimasu_> toastatw1rk: however, as the friction dosent go away when I start accelerating that would mean I need F + ma + 41N to overcome the friction against the slide
[16:21:37] <SWPadnos> F=MA + 41N to start
[16:21:44] <toastatw1rk> when you start accelerating the 41n isn't 41n anymore
[16:22:01] <anonimasu_> hehe, gravity dosent go away -_-
[16:22:06] <archivist_emc> once you are at speed oil film floats the mass and friction drops and viscosity effects start to matter
[16:22:09] <toastatw1rk> yes but the static coefficent does
[16:22:20] <anonimasu_> and the sliding friction for cast iron is the same as static friction
[16:22:29] <archivist_emc> dry maybe
[16:22:34] <anonimasu_> no wet..
[16:22:48] <anonimasu_> well, most places never mention any static coefficient for cast iron
[16:23:01] <anonimasu_> http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Tribology/co_of_frict.htm#coef
[16:24:11] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ googles about oil
[16:25:02] <archivist_emc> top of that page mentions some of the error sources and uncertainty
[16:25:12] <anonimasu_> yep I saw that
[16:25:20] <anonimasu_> hm, I wonder where I can find a reference about kinetic friction
[16:25:38] <anonimasu_> speed vs friction
[16:25:42] <anonimasu_> err velocity..
[16:25:52] <toastatwork> friction is kind of a nonsense thing anyway
[16:25:59] <toastatwork> it's a gross oversimplification
[16:26:23] <anonimasu_> but it earns you a living dosent it :p
[16:26:36] <toastatwork> i guess?
[16:26:43] <anonimasu_> *grins*
[16:26:48] <archivist_emc> surface finish and oil effect greatly, cast iron would be the off one out as it contains carbon for self lubrication
[16:27:01] <anonimasu_> surface finish is very dependant and oil
[16:27:01] <archivist_emc> off/odd
[16:27:26] <anonimasu_> I guess this is as good as I can calc it..
[16:27:41] <toastatwork> i missed the part where this matters for something
[16:27:44] <toastatwork> what are you doing this for?
[16:28:31] <anonimasu_> I forget things I think are boring.. and physics without any application are boring
[16:28:34] <anonimasu_> :p
[16:28:44] <anonimasu_> so, im just theorizing about a mill, to make it interesting
[16:29:43] <toastatwork> ohh
[16:30:20] <anonimasu_> like what force I need to make my mill go zip zip zip ;)
[16:30:33] <anonimasu_> at 5m/min and 0.1s to reach that speed
[16:31:04] <toastatwork> without oiled slides?
[16:31:12] <anonimasu_> no
[16:31:29] <anonimasu_> but with stationary table and doing a rapid.. as example..
[16:31:45] <toastatwork> once a slide starts moving it's pretty much entirely viscosity, not friction, that provides the opposing force
[16:31:56] <toastatwork> hydrodynamics and whatnot
[16:32:01] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[16:33:53] <anonimasu_> and that's way beyond the scope of my physics :p
[16:34:06] <toastatwork> i think i got 100% on my calc test
[16:34:08] <anonimasu_> *makes a mental note*
[16:34:12] <toastatwork> also isn't viscosity a simple thing?
[16:34:15] <toastatwork> it's linear, iirc?
[16:34:25] <archivist_ub> not for some oils
[16:34:31] <anonimasu_> hm, not nescessarily
[16:34:56] <anonimasu_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity
[16:37:07] <anonimasu_> brb
[16:43:29] <fragalot> I got bored and mocked up something that's probably impossible, but still fun as a concept
[16:43:35] <fragalot> hold on
[16:43:59] <archivist_ub> what do I hold on to
[16:45:12] <fragalot> life
[16:45:14] <fragalot> as long as you can
[16:46:39] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vc2t4/P1000962.JPG dno if it's readable
[16:47:35] <fragalot> or if it makes any sense for that matter
[16:48:27] <fenn> rather hard to read, can't you just type it?
[16:48:35] <fragalot> whats the fun in that
[16:48:36] <fragalot> :p
[16:48:39] <fragalot> ok
[16:48:58] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub detects tippex
[16:49:57] <alex_joni> OCR ftw
[16:50:40] <fenn> one problem is you are confusing axis with joints - there might be more than 9 joints
[16:50:50] <fenn> (or less)
[16:51:14] <fragalot> from the homepage: It can simultaneously move up to 9 axes and supports a variety of interfaces.
[16:51:57] <fenn> anyway.. why send step/dir and dir/rpm in the same packet?
[16:52:34] <fragalot> for powered axis's
[16:52:36] <fragalot> like on lathes
[16:52:39] <toastatwork> fragalot: what kind of binder do you have that has 6 rings, 2 pairs right next to each other
[16:52:47] <toastatwork> 8 rings?
[16:53:13] <fragalot> toastatwork: ?
[16:54:10] <fenn> what's a powered axis?
[16:54:51] <fragalot> fenn: basically, a lathe can have a powered tool
[16:55:21] <fenn> ok, why is that not a spindle?
[16:55:24] <fragalot> agreed, it's confusing. and fairly pointless, should be a diff. packet
[16:55:29] <fragalot> fenn: because i'm tired? :)
[16:56:08] <fenn> i dont know how that's generally handled in g-code, but i dont think there's any way to do it in emc
[16:56:23] <fenn> beyond custom m-codes or the analog pin stuff
[16:56:40] <fragalot> then that part just drops out and becomes part of the M-codes, :p
[16:58:16] <fenn> if you're going to let the device do arbitrary stuff then you force the user to learn how to program some wacky PIC
[16:58:47] <fragalot> basically just have it translate all those things to outputs..
[16:59:05] <anonimasu_> iab
[16:59:33] <fenn> take a look at how the hostmot arranges pins and functions, i think its fairly similar (but you hve no feedback of course)
[17:00:58] <fenn> oh wait, duh
[17:01:05] <fenn> you can't do it that way because it's USB right?
[17:01:20] <fragalot> yeah, USB takes too long to reply
[17:01:23] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ needs a formula collection badly
[17:01:29] <fenn> so you have to send time-stamped commands instead of a basic step/dir packet
[17:01:31] <anonimasu_> well, that's tomorrows project buy one
[17:01:35] <fragalot> because the host needs to ask for it first,... all in all, it takes too long before you get the response.
[17:02:02] <fragalot> fenn: that's why i put the "WHEN" thingy in, kinda,.. as a quick "save" :p
[17:02:09] <archivist_ub> fragalot, setup the synchonous mode
[17:02:22] <fragalot> archivist_ub: for USB? o.0
[17:02:44] <archivist_ub> fragalot, read usb2 spec its long but its in there
[17:03:10] <archivist_ub> and packet size is configurable
[17:03:23] <fragalot> * fragalot reads
[17:03:44] <archivist_ub> I would expect regular timed packets going both ways
[17:04:47] <fragalot> damnit ic an't find the full USB2.0 spec
[17:04:54] <archivist_ub> so packets are both ways in the servo period
[17:04:58] <fragalot> only various quick Q&A
[17:05:30] <archivist_ub> I have/had it on my old box
[17:06:16] <fragalot> found it
[17:06:24] <fragalot> 9MB zipped pdf
[17:06:24] <fragalot> xD
[17:07:16] <archivist_ub> took me a week of skim reading to a get a percentage in the brain
[17:09:36] <fragalot> nighttime reading, here I come.
[17:10:44] <archivist_ub> long night
[17:11:34] <fragalot> =D
[17:11:43] <fragalot> I hate reading specs, even skimming it hurts the eyes
[17:12:35] <fragalot> why did we just jump back to USB btw? :p
[17:13:03] <fragalot> ethernet already has the full-duplex system, all we need to figure out is how to effectively put it to good use
[17:13:37] <fenn> sorry i thought you were doing USB
[17:13:46] <fenn> 1) define the problem
[17:13:49] <fenn> 2) solve the problem
[17:14:12] <fenn> * fenn vows never to eat kimchi again
[17:15:23] <SWPadnos> oh come on - kimchee is great (several kinds)
[17:16:00] <fenn> tell me, is it always rotten?
[17:16:16] <SWPadnos> it's "fermented", not rotten
[17:16:31] <SWPadnos> it should be a bit like spicy sauerkraut
[17:16:35] <archivist_ub> heh funny definition of rot
[17:16:47] <SWPadnos> there are radish based ones as well, which are also quite nice
[17:17:01] <fenn> yes i had the radish kind
[17:17:15] <SWPadnos> if it's rotten, I can imagine it tasting like crap
[17:17:32] <fenn> i'm pretty sure it's "fermented"
[17:17:45] <SWPadnos> well, it can go bad too
[17:18:06] <SWPadnos> there's a brand you can get in the store that's pretty good, but I don't remember the name
[17:18:15] <fenn> the kimchee eater thought it "tasted like kimchee"
[17:18:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:19:15] <archivist_emc> hmm I want a debugging gcode interpreter
[17:19:21] <fragalot> mmm beer
[17:19:33] <fragalot> archivist_emc: that would be called "employee"
[17:19:46] <fragalot> it's expensive tho,.. and prone to mistakes
[17:19:51] <archivist_emc> * archivist_emc hating arc some more today
[17:19:54] <fragalot> but it's very very good at covering those mistakes up,... till some point
[17:20:20] <fragalot> http://www.ebsnetinc.com/software-documents.php?id=88
[17:20:24] <fragalot> HAH.
[17:20:25] <archivist_emc> I not breaking endmills till I get sense from axis
[17:23:56] <fragalot> I just had a nice idea
[17:24:04] <fragalot> archivist_emc: do you have a mill?
[17:24:46] <archivist_emc> er yes see youtube where its in action
[17:25:12] <fragalot> k, mind cutting this out & mailing it to me? :p:p http://www.instructables.com/files/orig/FAU/Z4M9/F3KRXJ2T/FAUZ4M9F3KRXJ2T.dxf
[17:26:04] <fenn> believe it or not, a DXF does not a part specification make
[17:26:23] <fragalot> fenn: no, but he won't do it anyways, shipping is too much.
[17:26:48] <archivist_emc> luckily /me is dxf blind on this box
[17:26:54] <anonimasu_> heh..
[17:27:01] <fragalot> http://www.instructables.com/id/SXCIEH6F3HY3SOB/ <- I just want this cut out,.. I wish he put dimensions on that
[17:27:02] <anonimasu_> No, he wont cut it for you.
[17:27:03] <fenn> looks like some kind of cnc mill parts
[17:27:09] <fragalot> fenn: Aye.
[17:27:14] <anonimasu_> that's laser work :p
[17:27:16] <anonimasu_> or waterjet ;)
[17:27:24] <fenn> really close together too, couldnt do it with endmill anyway
[17:27:29] <anonimasu_> yep
[17:27:31] <anonimasu_> waterjet.
[17:28:08] <fenn> scroll saw apparently
[17:28:10] <archivist_emc> from your desciptions in here, ask useless boss here to use piercing saw
[17:28:12] <fragalot> it should work..
[17:28:29] <fragalot> theres approx .3" between each part if i'm not mistaken
[17:28:39] <archivist_emc> barn door
[17:28:53] <anonimasu_> 7mm..
[17:28:54] <anonimasu_> heh
[17:29:00] <fragalot> 7mm is doable.
[17:29:03] <anonimasu_> yep
[17:29:10] <fragalot> ESP. in mdf xD
[17:29:11] <anonimasu_> 7.62 to be exact..
[17:29:18] <archivist_emc> * archivist_emc uses 2mm endmills
[17:29:18] <anonimasu_> how are you going to hold it down?
[17:29:26] <anonimasu_> the force?
[17:29:31] <fragalot> vacuum?
[17:29:40] <fragalot> lol, no, just clamp it to the table
[17:29:46] <anonimasu_> uh, no tabs or nothing?
[17:29:49] <anonimasu_> just let them fall out?
[17:29:57] <archivist_emc> is there an online ral pic I can see
[17:30:01] <archivist_emc> real
[17:30:03] <anonimasu_> yes in a sec.
[17:30:19] <fragalot> http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FCK/BMSH/F3HY3SK9/FCKBMSHF3HY3SK9.MEDIUM.jpg
[17:31:12] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/27838
[17:31:24] <fragalot> I could pretty much cut it out by hand,.. if i had proper dimensions. or if i could properly print that out in a tile
[17:31:33] <fragalot> unfortionately, i'm unable to do either
[17:31:34] <fragalot> >;>
[17:32:04] <archivist_emc> heh just a cheap chinese jigsaw and a bit of effot
[17:32:07] <fenn> fragalot: just build a cnc machine to cut it out :P
[17:32:15] <fragalot> fenn: bastard :p
[17:32:33] <anonimasu> uh.. you still need to make it square..
[17:32:41] <toastatwork> scraper!
[17:32:46] <anonimasu> whoever that made it had laser.
[17:32:47] <anonimasu> for sure
[17:32:47] <anonimasu> :p
[17:32:48] <fenn> welcome to boostrapping 101
[17:33:07] <fragalot> anonimasuhe did it on somebody else his CNC machine
[17:33:13] <anonimasu> heh.
[17:33:18] <fragalot> he said so in his instructions "I cheated"
[17:33:28] <anonimasu> heh..
[17:34:30] <fragalot> That doesn't change the fact that I don't tho
[17:35:15] <fragalot> no belgian EMCers here? :(
[17:35:47] <fenn> fragalot: how about you make some thing like "hektor"
[17:35:58] <fenn> two strings attached to stepper motors
[17:36:16] <fenn> good enough for a plotter
[17:36:38] <fragalot> I somehow don't see that working for engrave work
[17:36:54] <fenn> just to draw the outlines on your sheet of plywood
[17:37:11] <fenn> then you cut out with woodworking tools
[17:37:32] <fragalot> now that is a mighty fine idea
[17:37:51] <fenn> even better would be a cable hexapod, but i digress
[17:38:03] <BigJohnT> fragalot: can't you open the dxf in qcad to put the dimensions in?
[17:38:18] <fenn> yes qcad reads it just fine
[17:38:31] <fragalot> BigJohnT: that takes forever, and it's still in inches, would have to convert every single one by hand,... as the silly app won't do it for me :p
[17:38:59] <archivist_emc> nothing wrong with inches
[17:39:00] <BigJohnT> can't you just scale the drawing?
[17:39:25] <fenn> you can switch inches/mm
[17:39:44] <fragalot> archivist_emc: k, i'll send some complex thing to you in metric, but won't put the measurements on it, and won't give you any measuring devices that work in metric, see how much you like it ;)
[17:39:49] <fragalot> fenn: orly, where?
[17:40:03] <fragalot> BigJohnT: that would be an idea..
[17:40:09] <fenn> edit->current drawing preferences-> units
[17:40:22] <anonimasu> uh it's metric..
[17:40:24] <anonimasu> err inch..
[17:40:27] <anonimasu> af far as I can see..
[17:40:35] <archivist_emc> fragalot: Im swapping units all the time
[17:41:02] <fragalot> archivist_emc: so am I, but I still prefer to work in the native units,.. esp. when all your tools are metric
[17:41:28] <BigJohnT> inch is native :) to me
[17:41:34] <fragalot> BigJohnT: =D
[17:41:48] <fenn> i for one prefer planck length
[17:42:07] <archivist_emc> I have tools in both and the inch/mm button on digital calipers is really useful
[17:42:16] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[17:42:29] <fragalot> archivist_emc: only calipers I have at home are 0.02mm dial calipers
[17:43:29] <anonimasu> hm..
[17:43:31] <anonimasu> not enough?
[17:44:10] <archivist_emc> hmm play time
[17:44:53] <fragalot> I WANT PLAY TIME!
[17:47:58] <archivist_emc> off out to archive now
[17:48:26] <fragalot> archive.. play time?
[17:57:05] <Guest879> buona sera
[17:57:19] <skunkworks> hello
[17:59:17] <Guest879> tutti"stranieri" o c'è anche qualche italiano?
[17:59:21] <Guest879> +
[17:59:25] <fragalot> woo
[17:59:29] <fragalot> I just managed to print it out in a tile
[17:59:32] <fragalot> finally
[18:02:29] <alex_joni> Guest879: I do understand a little bit :)
[18:03:06] <alex_joni> parlare e piu dificcile per me :)
[18:20:21] <stuste1> cradek: sorry the ball screw didn't come out better :(
[18:21:15] <cradek> stuste1: I could keep trying... but I think the nut is worn on such a way that I can't get it perfect
[18:21:19] <cradek> in such
[18:21:41] <SWPadnos> turn a new one ;)
[18:21:44] <cradek> the ball sizes required to take up the lash just don't fit in the nut
[18:22:10] <stuste1> probably - if you are better by .0003 on one side you could expect another .0003 and be at .0009 - still not as good as you want
[18:22:34] <cradek> oh it's much better - from .0036 to .0012
[18:22:54] <stuste1> ok - then I would probably try the other side
[18:23:17] <cradek> it would mean ordering more balls again - I'm tired of it for now
[18:23:25] <stuste1> I thought you were at .0015 when you started
[18:23:28] <cradek> besides I soldered it all shut so nicely
[18:23:31] <cradek> no it was .0036
[18:24:29] <stuste1> does it have any tight spots anywhere?
[18:24:34] <cradek> nope
[18:24:52] <stuste1> nice - I would definitely go for the other side
[18:25:01] <cradek> it has one spot that's just a tiny bit more loose - way away from the chuck, I think it might be the home position
[18:33:29] <skunkworks> where it sat and oscollated? ;)
[18:33:35] <skunkworks> oscollated?
[18:36:57] <SWPadnos> oscillated
[18:40:10] <skunkworks> close
[19:04:54] <fragalot> woah
[19:05:15] <fragalot> I just put the pieces together, and it's pretty damn big :p I got my work "cut out" for me cutting these pieces out by hand o.O
[19:17:58] <jepler> hi seb
[19:18:03] <seb_kuzminsky> hi jeff :-)
[19:18:40] <skunkworks> * skunkworks thinks it might have been quicker to download the latest ISO
[19:20:58] <fragalot> lol
[19:25:05] <BigJohnT> scale it down fragalot :)
[19:26:37] <fragalot> BigJohnT: No. :p
[19:27:28] <fragalot> the work table is 30"x30" and,.. Well, even if i scale it down, in terms of cost it practically won't change a thing,.. Only concern I have is that my steppers are only .4Nm
[19:27:52] <BigJohnT> the parts won't be so big :)
[19:28:08] <fragalot> same work cutting them out tho ;)
[19:28:12] <fragalot> the part count doesn't change.
[19:28:25] <fragalot> and if i use a 5mm drill, or a 3mm drill... what's the difference :p
[19:28:33] <toastatwork> 2mm
[19:28:42] <toastatwork> * toastatwork is winrar
[19:29:00] <fragalot> xD
[19:37:02] <fragalot> I'm off, cya
[19:37:04] <toastatwork> it is nice to be paid overtime to watch a cnc bridgeport and play xmoto
[19:37:06] <toastatwork> bai u
[19:37:12] <fragalot> toastatwork: haha
[19:37:22] <fragalot> xmoto, imho, has some nasty physics
[19:37:36] <toastatwork> YOU CAN SHUT YOUR DIRTY MOUTH
[19:37:39] <toastatwork> yeah i agree sort of
[19:37:52] <toastatwork> i enjoy the bouncy physics
[19:37:54] <fragalot> lean back,.. do a wheely, put the front wheel down, and the rear lifts off O.O
[19:37:56] <toastatwork> i do not enjoy the rough control
[19:38:14] <fragalot> yeah, it's too crude
[19:38:23] <fragalot> other than that, it's great fun.
[19:38:25] <fragalot> lots of maps too
[19:38:36] <toastatwork> i get frustrated fast though
[19:38:42] <toastatwork> i prefer playing rrootage if i want to get frustrated
[19:39:09] <fragalot> hahahaha, classic
[19:39:39] <fragalot> first time i played that game, i had /NO IDEA/ wtf was going on, with all those thingies flying everywhere
[19:39:45] <anonimasu_> toastatwork: lol
[19:40:29] <fragalot> Anyways, baibai!
[20:03:13] <anonimasu_> hm, as for the bearings I asked for a quote of they are 500eur..
[20:04:26] <anonimasu_> it looks like I'll be using a thrust bearing that I'll preload with a known torque and a radial bearing just to center the ballscrew
[20:07:29] <toastatwork> ouchies
[20:07:39] <toastatwork> @ 500 eur
[20:14:20] <anonimasu_> the other option is angular ball bearings but they are hard to get too
[20:14:26] <anonimasu_> they are sold by "SKF Multitech"
[20:15:51] <anonimasu_> the place that makes/renovates spindles :p
[20:16:55] <anonimasu_> *sigh*
[20:23:35] <anonimasu_> toastatwork: it really looks like looking into air-bearings are worthwhile
[20:23:46] <toastatwork> lol
[20:24:11] <anonimasu_> :/
[20:24:19] <toastatwork> yeah that sucks =(
[20:24:34] <anonimasu_> well, for spindles atleast ;)
[20:24:35] <anonimasu_> it feels damn complicated
[20:25:27] <toastatwork> ?
[20:26:07] <anonimasu_> diy air-bearings -_-
[20:26:28] <anonimasu_> if possible.
[20:27:06] <toastatwork> lol
[20:30:16] <anonimasu_> apparently all spindle bearings start at 500 eur and more
[20:31:48] <anonimasu_> (for 20mm :P)
[20:32:23] <toastatwork> lol
[20:32:24] <anonimasu_> archivist: http://www.newportgears.com.au/Gear%20Cutting.htm
[20:32:44] <anonimasu_> a 100mm id bearing = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[20:42:21] <toastatwork> yeah, replacement bearings on some of our machines are like 5k
[20:42:40] <anonimasu_> why dont you use the air bearings you make?
[20:43:13] <anonimasu_> http://www.aspe.net/publications/Annual_2000/PDF/POSTERS/EQUIP/DESIGN/SHANG.PDF
[20:43:14] <anonimasu_> nice
[20:43:26] <toastatwork> because we don't want to have to put 20k+ in man hours, matrials, and machine time into making a custom bearing we're only going to use one of
[20:43:47] <anonimasu_> do you invest that much in making a single bearing?
[20:43:51] <toastatwork> yep
[20:43:56] <anonimasu_> I thought you mass produced them
[20:43:56] <toastatwork> easy
[20:44:00] <toastatwork> we do mass produce them
[20:44:12] <anonimasu_> btw, have a look
[20:44:31] <toastatwork> we don't make "Standard" bearings like you'd expect with ball bearings, though
[20:44:48] <toastatwork> if we wanted to make a ball bearing style housing for an air bearing, that would be a ton of work.
[20:44:54] <toastatwork> have a look where
[20:45:05] <anonimasu_> pdf..
[20:45:12] <toastatwork> no pdf reader
[20:45:15] <toastatwork> at the moment
[20:45:47] <anonimasu_> ah your at work too, hold on..
[20:46:13] <anonimasu_> http://imagebin.org/27856
[20:46:53] <anonimasu_> the tolerance seems pretty slack too.. about 0.0127mm.. for 400lbs of radial stiffness..
[20:47:22] <toastatwork> haha, they don't show you any of the important stuff
[20:47:32] <anonimasu_> it's a whole paper..
[20:47:39] <toastatwork> but it takes a lot of work to make an air bearing
[20:47:55] <toastatwork> oh cool
[20:48:03] <toastatwork> then do it man
[20:48:06] <anonimasu_> it talks about line feed correction coefficients and stuff..
[20:48:22] <toastatwork> i have no idea what that is
[20:48:42] <anonimasu_> to make the pressure more uniform over the bearing surface to get the maximum stiffness..
[20:49:01] <toastatwork> oh, because oriface bearing
[20:49:01] <toastatwork> right
[20:49:13] <toastatwork> yeah we don't have to worry about that
[20:49:16] <anonimasu_> yep
[20:49:39] <toastatwork> i am going to wget that paper and read it later
[20:49:43] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[20:49:59] <anonimasu_> well, you'r NDA:ed, though you might be able to tell me if im wasting my time ;)
[20:50:06] <toastatwork> hahaha
[20:50:11] <toastatwork> i am nda'ed on the porous part
[20:50:18] <toastatwork> which you don't have the capbility to do anyway
[20:50:34] <toastatwork> but i don't see any reason why you can't do an oriface bearing
[20:50:37] <anonimasu_> yep
[20:51:08] <anonimasu_> it seems like +/- 0.01mm is about the limit of precision you need
[20:51:20] <anonimasu_> err no.. less then 0.01mm..
[20:51:25] <toastatwork> yeah dude, less.
[20:51:38] <toastatwork> be careful because a lot of research spindles are really sloppy and not rigid
[20:51:45] <anonimasu_> -10µm
[20:51:47] <toastatwork> but they're accurate as long as you don't load them up any, i.e. try to mill something
[20:51:51] <anonimasu_> this seems rigid..
[20:52:01] <toastatwork> *shrug* just our experience.
[20:52:05] <anonimasu_> there's a radial load vs displacement graph
[20:52:44] <toastatwork> well you just said it wasn't .01 mm
[20:52:49] <toastatwork> so that would indicate it isn't sloppy
[20:53:22] <toastatwork> 10 um is about what we make ours to
[20:53:34] <anonimasu_> how big is a microinch?
[20:53:37] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ has no idea really
[20:53:41] <anonimasu_> µin
[20:53:41] <toastatwork> microinch?
[20:53:44] <toastatwork> loooool
[20:53:47] <toastatwork> that's a millionth of an inch
[20:53:50] <toastatwork> when you breathe on something
[20:54:00] <toastatwork> the surface height will change by a couple microinches
[20:54:03] <anonimasu_> yep
[20:54:17] <toastatwork> when you turn a light on, everything will grow a microinch or two in a few seconds
[20:54:19] <anonimasu_> well, they measured the stiffness to 100µinch with 600lbs loading..
[20:54:39] <anonimasu_> measured with capacitance probe
[20:54:47] <toastatwork> that's not very stiff for a machine tool spindle.
[20:54:50] <anonimasu_> s/probe/probes
[20:55:03] <toastatwork> it's stiff, but machine spindles are usually stiffer than that.
[20:55:18] <anonimasu_> 272kg..
[20:55:34] <anonimasu_> 10 displace it 100µinch..
[20:55:40] <toastatwork> right.
[20:55:43] <anonimasu_> err to..
[20:55:53] <toastatwork> 100 ui is .0001"
[20:56:12] <anonimasu_> hm.. that's pretty bad
[20:56:14] <toastatwork> but like i said, 10 um is a pretty good gap
[20:56:21] <anonimasu_> :)
[20:56:32] <toastatwork> we do it smaller, but i would expect it to work
[20:56:43] <anonimasu_> yep
[20:56:53] <anonimasu_> im not sure about how precise my lathe is..
[20:56:54] <anonimasu_> :p
[20:57:05] <anonimasu_> the dro does 1µm..
[20:57:11] <toastatwork> not that precise, trust me.
[20:57:11] <anonimasu_> always something
[20:57:16] <anonimasu_> haha yep
[20:57:38] <toastatwork> we have a very, very good lathe that will barely do 10 um over about 4"
[20:57:41] <toastatwork> cylindricity
[20:57:55] <toastatwork> our air spindle lathes are more accurate but they're not useful for general machining like that
[20:57:57] <anonimasu_> well, if you want to do 1µm stuff.. you need temp control for sure
[20:58:16] <toastatwork> you can do geometric features to 10 um
[20:58:21] <toastatwork> without temp control
[20:58:27] <toastatwork> as long as you are careful and do it quickly
[20:58:29] <anonimasu_> yeah
[20:58:30] <toastatwork> sizes, no
[20:58:45] <toastatwork> but like
[20:59:12] <toastatwork> if you look into lapping, which you will have to do
[20:59:12] <toastatwork> if you want to make a spindle
[20:59:12] <toastatwork> you should be able to build some laps and get your sizes at home.
[21:00:11] <anonimasu_> turning stuff down to 0.01mm isnt usually a problem
[21:00:40] <anonimasu_> but I cant measure less ;)
[21:01:14] <toastatwork> the problem is not measuring it, not so much
[21:01:31] <toastatwork> if you lap it well, you should be able to fit the rotor and stator without any measuring
[21:01:46] <anonimasu_> btw, load capacity > 2180N
[21:01:53] <anonimasu_> both axial and radia
[21:01:54] <anonimasu_> l
[21:02:42] <anonimasu_> porous seems cute in compairsion to orfice bearings ;)
[21:02:46] <toastatwork> ~500 lbs?
[21:02:54] <anonimasu_> yep
[21:03:10] <toastatwork> uh, machine spindles have ratings in the thousands and ten thousands of pounds
[21:03:24] <toastatwork> esp. lathes
[21:03:46] <anonimasu_> im not interested in lathe spindles btw..(not as much)
[21:03:52] <toastatwork> it's obviously NOT a slouch of a spindle, but it's not a spindle built for machining.
[21:04:05] <toastatwork> or doesn't appear to be at my obvious first glance
[21:04:15] <toastatwork> maybe he's using it for some diamond milling or turning
[21:04:21] <toastatwork> does it say in the paper?
[21:04:40] <anonimasu_> oh, it's a chemical mechanical polishing spindle -_-
[21:04:44] <toastatwork> ah
[21:05:02] <anonimasu_> the spindle might be 2" wide..
[21:05:07] <anonimasu_> err 1" shaft ;)
[21:05:44] <toastatwork> does he go into the sizing of the orifaces and the windows
[21:05:48] <toastatwork> i've always wondered about that
[21:06:06] <toastatwork> i.e. how to size them and why
[21:06:07] <anonimasu_> only that they have to be really tight
[21:06:20] <toastatwork> hm
[21:07:23] <toastatwork> i am thinking that it's totally possible to build a diamond turning lathe at home
[21:07:28] <toastatwork> out of aluminum
[21:07:31] <anonimasu_> haha
[21:07:35] <toastatwork> no, seriously
[21:07:37] <toastatwork> srsly
[21:07:41] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[21:08:18] <toastatwork> did he build the spindle in two halves
[21:08:34] <toastatwork> that's what we've been doing lately for a bunch of people, rather than building spindles we build pads that have a radius
[21:08:40] <anonimasu_> no
[21:08:44] <toastatwork> and that way it can be off a little geometrically
[21:08:48] <anonimasu_> it was just the bearing I think
[21:08:59] <toastatwork> because the rotor matters a lot more than the housing
[21:09:18] <anonimasu_> hmm
[21:09:24] <toastatwork> like, a lot
[21:09:32] <anonimasu_> you know what I hate?
[21:09:36] <toastatwork> hm?
[21:09:37] <anonimasu_> not having a engineering degree.
[21:09:40] <toastatwork> =/
[21:09:48] <toastatwork> why?
[21:09:51] <toastatwork> aren't you cs?
[21:09:52] <anonimasu_> there are all theese nice papers on everything on IEEEE..
[21:09:56] <toastatwork> lol
[21:10:27] <anonimasu_> like if you google for how to mount lasers to sharks there's a paper about it..
[21:10:32] <toastatwork> hahahaha.
[21:10:48] <anonimasu_> and you cant be member of IEEEE, unless you are a engineer or at a institution..
[21:11:07] <anonimasu_> or throw enough $$$$$$$$$$$$ at them..
[21:11:11] <toastatwork> bastards
[21:11:23] <anonimasu_> it's disturbing
[21:11:58] <anonimasu_> whenever I search for something cool I find "A paper describing the optimized design for air bearing milling sindles"
[21:12:03] <anonimasu_> or something alike on there..
[21:12:11] <toastatwork> and no dice?
[21:12:15] <anonimasu_> yep
[21:12:19] <toastatwork> i don't think my school qualifies
[21:12:25] <toastatwork> being a 2 year
[21:12:31] <anonimasu_> maybe..
[21:12:35] <toastatwork> what's the link
[21:12:38] <toastatwork> i'll try
[21:12:49] <anonimasu_> www.ieee.org
[21:13:24] <toastatwork> slow internet is slow
[21:13:43] <toastatwork> i'm going to go out to the lobby real quick and see if precision machine design has any of the equations for air bearings
[21:13:47] <toastatwork> i know it has a chapter on them
[21:13:49] <toastatwork> and a lot of math
[21:13:52] <toastatwork> so maybe that can help
[21:13:53] <toastatwork> brb
[21:14:04] <anonimasu_> it probably does
[21:14:12] <anonimasu_> though I cant do the math :/
[21:14:25] <anonimasu_> (that's why I dont have a engineering degree)
[21:15:55] <anonimasu_> http://mdrl.mne.psu.edu/docs/PSMChap.pdf
[21:16:00] <anonimasu_> another cute paper
[21:22:47] <toastatwork> dangit somebody moved all the stuff around in the lobby
[21:22:47] <toastatwork> and the person who did it went home for the day
[21:22:47] <toastatwork> bastards
[21:23:28] <anonimasu_> http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/RT/RT2001/2000/2200bream.html GRR!
[21:23:36] <anonimasu_> we have a cute bearing that works, but we cover our orfices.
[21:25:46] <toastatwork> it'll be loaded in a half hour
[21:25:53] <anonimasu_> loaded?
[21:25:56] <anonimasu_> which one of them
[21:26:28] <toastatwork> the one i got right as i joined
[21:26:28] <toastatwork> my internet is freaking out atm
[21:26:33] <anonimasu_> ah
[21:26:33] <anonimasu_> ok
[21:26:40] <anonimasu_> think it's faster if I send it to you
[21:26:43] <anonimasu_> or use filebin.ca?
[21:27:54] <toastatwork> neither, i'm dropping random packets
[21:28:01] <toastatwork> i don't know why irc is staying online like it is
[21:28:09] <anonimasu_> hm ok
[21:28:15] <anonimasu_> freenode is liberal with dropped packets ;)
[21:28:22] <toastatwork> google won't load
[21:28:24] <toastatwork> whutevs
[21:28:34] <anonimasu_> I've had the same issue
[21:28:34] <toastatwork> lol and i appriciate that
[21:28:56] <toastatwork> my link quality is 3%
[21:28:58] <toastatwork> on wireless
[21:29:17] <toastatwork> i don't know why there are windows in air bearings
[21:29:23] <toastatwork> it doesn't make any sense to me
[21:29:43] <toastatwork> but then i've never built an oriface air bearing =/
[21:30:02] <anonimasu_> probably because with a small hole you have a limited area for the air to spread out from..
[21:30:05] <tomp> some mentioned earlier about a ball bearing that didnt move much and its axis 'oscillated'. when the balls dont turn over 1 full turn thats called 'fretting' and requires special grease.
[21:30:49] <anonimasu_> ball reducer's?
[21:31:42] <anonimasu_> they are fancy devices
[21:31:49] <anonimasu_> toastatwork: but that's just what I guess
[21:32:20] <anonimasu_> toastatw2rk: wb
[21:32:37] <toastatwork> anonimasu_: but why does that matter
[21:33:19] <anonimasu_> it may also have to do with centering
[21:34:02] <anonimasu_> tomp: sorry I cant find a good picture
[21:35:38] <anonimasu_> toastatw2rk: http://aerolasusa.com/air_bearing_conventional.html
[21:37:00] <anonimasu_> toastatw2rk: I know why now
[21:37:12] <toastatw2rk> y
[21:38:05] <anonimasu_> when you load a air bearing you close off the orfice creating a pressure rise and as the F=p*A ends up being large enough it makes the bearing fight to center itself the more you load it
[21:38:14] <anonimasu_> http://www.loadpoint-bearings.co.uk/products/how_air_bearings_work/
[21:38:54] <tomp> anonimasu: re fretting : http://www.tribology.co.uk/services/investigate/pb05-0.htm i think maybe it was cradek's lathe near the home position.
[21:39:14] <anonimasu_> wow
[21:39:14] <toastatw2rk> hm
[21:39:57] <anonimasu_> that shouldnt happen
[21:40:12] <anonimasu_> toastatw2rk: does that seem sane?
[21:40:19] <anonimasu_> I think it makes sense
[21:40:41] <anonimasu_> as if you close off just a small hole, you get no surface area and very little force
[21:40:42] <toastatw2rk> it makes some amount of sense, yes
[21:41:03] <toastatw2rk> ty!
[21:41:12] <anonimasu_> ?
[21:41:23] <toastatw2rk> thank you
[21:41:28] <toastatw2rk> for looking it up/explaining it
[21:41:33] <toastatw2rk> it's something i've wondered for awhile
[21:41:52] <anonimasu_> haha, np im just obsessive with stuff I dont understand
[21:42:18] <toastatw2rk> also i don't know if you got these messages but someone moved the book
[21:42:22] <toastatw2rk> so i'll look for it tommorow
[21:42:29] <anonimasu_> yep
[21:42:58] <anonimasu_> im in no hurry
[21:43:15] <anonimasu_> I need to get better at math so I can make stuff make sense..
[21:43:16] <anonimasu_> :p
[21:43:21] <toastatw2rk> haha
[21:44:10] <anonimasu_> laters!
[21:44:13] <anonimasu_> it's bedtime
[21:44:15] <toastatw2rk> bai
[21:48:36] <Paragon> Hello All, I wonder if you could help me with regards to the error below. I get this when connecting via tightvnc to a vncserver running on the EMC server.
[21:48:37] <Paragon> Application initialization failed: this isn't a Tk applicationunknown color name "Black"
[21:49:11] <Paragon> When starting emc.
[21:49:22] <alex_joni> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=858323
[21:49:41] <jepler> most vnc servers don't have opengl support
[21:49:51] <jepler> so even after you solve that error, axis is not likely to work
[21:49:53] <jepler> you may have to use tkemc
[21:50:27] <alex_joni> or use ssh -x
[21:50:37] <jepler> (tkemc is also affected by the 'unknown color name "Black"' error)
[21:53:00] <Paragon> Thanks Guys ...
[21:55:33] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:26:40] <Paragon> OK just installed xming and tunneled X via ssh / putty (X11 forwarding) I can run xclock ok but am getting the following error when starting EMC....
[22:26:41] <Paragon> _tkinter.TclError: Could not allocate font
[22:26:44] <Paragon> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[22:35:52] <tomp> theres a version of caelinux with brlcad available as a vmware image http://caelinux.com/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=40
[22:35:58] <jepler> that means that some font required by axis is not available.
[22:36:08] <jepler> the other lines of the error message that you didn't show might give a clue as to what font that is
[22:40:00] <jepler> if you haven't, I'd try installing "Xming-fonts"
[22:40:27] <jepler> (or bin that copy of windows and just use linux everywhere :-P)
[22:40:47] <Paragon> Not a bad idea... lol
[22:41:43] <Paragon> Weird... I unable to view web pages at moment. But can ping and use IRC .
[22:49:29] <tomp> ladder logic compiles to pic or avr , src available http://cq.cx/ladder.pl
[22:53:43] <jepler> oh cool -- I think I found that project once, then lost it again
[22:54:22] <jepler> only problem is, writing ladder logic in impeccable ASCII art is probably just as hard as writing correct "C" code
[22:54:54] <jepler> .. or does it only *look* like you have to write the ASCII art by hand?
[23:00:54] <dmess> hi all
[23:13:23] <tom1> jepler: i just figger his input code code be changed to read a classicladder file
[23:26:28] <tom1> that is just too bizarre, im on a single box and clone me just left the room
[23:28:17] <tom1> yah, tomp3 is me at home, thats ok
[23:28:50] <dareposte> dareposte is now known as tom2
[23:28:55] <tom2> tom2 is now known as dareposte
[23:29:23] <dareposte> must get a lot of work done with a clone...
[23:29:34] <dareposte> do you leave him at home to load the cnc all day?
[23:29:56] <dareposte> get up and put the clone to work, then go to work, and come home to a finished pile of parts and all your beer missing...
[23:32:34] <tom1> heh, remember laury anderson's clone... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27aLils4m_8 herself as a midget with a mustache
[23:33:13] <tom1> she used to host this great show called off-center from minneapolis