#emc | Logs for 2008-09-30

[00:22:10] <a-l-p-h-a> hey
[00:22:52] <a-l-p-h-a> anyone fimiliar with a linux home server, that also does most of what Windows Home Server does? especially, the duplication backup elimination of files?
[00:34:33] <toastydeath> a-l-p-h-a: ?
[00:34:45] <toastydeath> the program samba has all the file stuff handled.
[00:34:52] <toastydeath> i used to use a linux fileserver.
[01:14:46] <tomp> i vote for a preprocessor external of emc, just a C file filter, given a filename and a tool radius. filter goes thru gcode file and inserts radii as needed (or pukes with line#s & reason) creating a new file leaving orig untouched, and new ready for prevue in axis.
[01:15:28] <tomp> (digs out 'blech' a blend changer for wedm )
[01:27:56] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[01:45:36] <jepler> tomp: you don't get votes, except by actually writing the code :-P
[01:47:29] <ybit_> ybit_ is now known as ybit
[01:47:41] <ybit> ybit is now known as h2i
[02:23:37] <fenn> wow all this argument over something so obvious.. just have two modes, g43.999 "dont bitch on concave corners"
[02:24:14] <fenn> then everyone should be happy
[02:26:29] <toastydeath> i demand g43.998
[02:26:34] <toastydeath> nothing else will satisify me
[02:26:55] <toastydeath> AND G42533.3 TO CANCEL
[02:27:02] <toastydeath> i feel that is most logical.
[02:53:41] <stustev> I am careful not to vote at this time - but - I would suggest two modes of cutter compensation - configurable in the .ini file or with g code -
[02:53:59] <stustev> one that is the exact same as currently implemented
[02:54:29] <cradek> heh, stustev knows when there is danger of getting his head bitten off
[02:54:30] <stustev> one that doesn't try to radius the corners - neither the external nor the internal corners :)
[02:55:06] <cradek> stustev: next time we're together remind me to draw you some cases where what you want is impossible
[02:55:38] <stustev> cradek: I don't think you will be able to do that
[02:55:47] <cradek> stustev: you are mistaken :-)
[02:56:01] <stustev> I am looking forward to this conversation :)
[02:57:08] <toastydeath> so:
[02:57:11] <stustev> cradek: maybe if we did ALL the programming in the metric system the code would be better
[02:57:23] <cradek> haha
[02:57:37] <toastydeath> sqrt(x-3) * sqrt(x+2) == sqrt((x-3)(x+2))
[02:57:40] <toastydeath> why is that false.
[02:57:55] <toastydeath> i had the hunch it is, and my CAS says it is
[02:57:59] <toastydeath> but i don't know WHY it is false
[02:58:56] <toastydeath> same with sqrt(a) * sqrt(b) == sqrt(a*b)
[02:59:38] <cradek> a simple test using a=4 b=9 shows they are the same
[03:00:28] <toastydeath> that's amazing
[03:00:36] <toastydeath> why is this refusing to deal with it
[03:00:40] <cradek> I think the equation is true
[03:00:44] <toastydeath> #$%^#$%^
[03:00:45] <toastydeath> thanks
[03:00:58] <cradek> it's the same as a^2 x^2 = (ax)^2
[03:01:10] <cradek> what is "this"?
[03:01:13] <toastydeath> maxima
[03:01:36] <toastydeath> it's a cas
[03:01:41] <toastydeath> open source etc
[03:02:57] <stustev> showing my ignorance (or lack of education) but what is cas?
[03:03:08] <cradek> same here
[03:03:21] <toastydeath> sry, computer algebra system
[03:03:32] <toastydeath> does symbolic math, and should recognize something simple like that
[03:03:48] <stustev> thanks
[03:07:16] <stustev> if X = 1 then the sqrt(x-3) is an imaginary number
[03:07:48] <stustev> maybe you have to restrict the set of x
[03:08:31] <cradek> interesting, I did that restriction automatically without even considering it
[03:08:42] <toastydeath> hm
[03:08:48] <stustev> I am good at imagineering :)
[03:08:51] <cradek> but, the equation is still true, isn't it??
[03:10:10] <cradek> no it isn't: consider a=b=-1; sqrt(a)sqrt(b) = sqrt(ab); you get i^2=1
[03:10:43] <cradek> (which is false)
[03:11:06] <toastydeath> there's got to be a command to restrict stuff to all reals
[03:11:28] <cradek> that's not really the issue
[03:11:48] <toastydeath> oh, whoops
[03:13:25] <cradek> stustev: is sqrt(-1) i or +-i?
[03:13:35] <stustev> i
[03:13:40] <cradek> I think it's i
[03:13:49] <jepler> huh--I too thought you could distribute powers over multiplication (ab)^c = a^c b^c.
[03:13:50] <cradek> so in my example I get i^2 = +-1
[03:14:05] <cradek> which is clearly not an equivalency
[03:14:23] <cradek> jepler: for positive powers maybe?
[03:15:03] <stustev> you can distribute powers over multiplication - just not sqrt (in all cases)
[03:15:06] <jmkasunich> a^c is only defined for a positive OR c integer
[03:15:19] <jmkasunich> what is -3 ^ 2.5?
[03:15:55] <jepler> I think it's something around (4.7725885742620829e-15+15.588457268119901j)
[03:16:07] <jepler> but maybe I'm mistaken :-P
[03:16:19] <jepler> (hm that's almost a pure imaginary number..)
[03:16:22] <stustev> no! - I think you are right :)
[03:16:39] <cradek> toastydeath: we call this a "geek trap"
[03:16:40] <jepler> (that's the result of exp(2.5 * log(-3))
[03:16:41] <jmkasunich> heh, gnome calc says "Negative X and non-integer Y not supported" when I tried -3 ^ 2.5
[03:17:09] <jepler> a^b = exp(b * log(a))
[03:17:20] <cradek> orpie says it's nan
[03:17:22] <toastydeath> hahah
[03:18:00] <toastydeath> maxima gets -15.58846
[03:18:08] <jmkasunich> log (or ln) of a negative number is also undefined isn't it?
[03:18:14] <toastydeath> for -3^2.5
[03:18:33] <jepler> jmkasunich: no, it's just complex
[03:18:41] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: sounds like it computed -(3^2.5)
[03:19:06] <jmkasunich> we don't like them complex numbers
[03:19:09] <toastydeath> jmkasunich: tried again, and it just handed the original back to me
[03:19:09] <jmkasunich> gimme the simple ones
[03:19:20] <toastydeath> which is funny considering i asked for a numerical result
[03:19:56] <cradek> this is very interesting but I'm going to bed...
[03:19:58] <cradek> (really)
[03:20:18] <toastydeath> nitey
[03:20:23] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:20:26] <stustev> goodnight
[03:20:28] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/cm.c
[03:20:33] <jepler> prints 0.000000+15.588457j
[03:21:53] <JymmmEMC> I bought a fog machine and a motion sensor light to trigger the fog machine. Now, once triggered I need it to fire off for 0.5seconds, then wait 5 minutes before being fired again. I want to use timer relays to do this, but I haven't been able to grasp what combinations of on/off timers I need. Any thoughts?
[03:22:31] <jepler> you could read 'man cpow' but you have to be smart enough to even know what a "branch cut" is to understand it.
[03:22:39] <cradek> you could load up classicladder and experiment. there is a block that works just like a timer relay.
[03:22:51] <cradek> when you are done you'll have a nice diagram showing how to wire it
[03:23:14] <stustev> you can buy a single timer that has adjustable on/off times
[03:24:14] <JymmmEMC> I guess I'm not sure on the 5 minute "pause" if you will.
[03:24:30] <jmkasunich> just use classicladder
[03:24:46] <jmkasunich> (if you don't mind tying up a PC to run your fogger)
[03:25:00] <stustev> the adjustable timer will let you set the units of the on and off adjustment
[03:25:28] <JymmmEMC> Well, that was the reason for the timers, so that is all self contained. I have some uC around here, but wanted something that anyone could operate.
[03:25:29] <toastydeath> i would trigger the .5 sec and 5 min at the same time
[03:25:42] <toastydeath> unless you are asking a different question
[03:25:48] <toastydeath> and i guess you are
[03:25:57] <toastydeath> nvm
[03:26:02] <JymmmEMC> toastydeath: =)
[03:26:40] <jmkasunich> you basically want a 0.5 sec pulse when the trigger goes off, and at least 5 mins between pulses?
[03:26:53] <JymmmEMC> toastydeath: I'm using a motion sensor to trigger the fog machien when someone walks by. But it but's out such intense fog, that 1/2 a seconds is more than enough fog for 5 minutes
[03:27:04] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: correct
[03:27:19] <toastydeath> i would trigger both timers are the same time, and have the 5 min timer kill the triggering mechanism
[03:27:28] <JymmmEMC> I dont want the motion sensore to keep triggering the fog
[03:28:11] <JymmmEMC> you think this is possible in a single dual timer relay?
[03:29:05] <jmkasunich> probably
[03:29:12] <jmkasunich> but timer relays come in many flavors
[03:29:13] <toastydeath> i've never worked with single dual timer relay before
[03:29:50] <toastydeath> so i don't know what kind of outputs or triggering they have?
[03:29:59] <toastydeath> if they both trigger off the same input that would be fine imho
[03:30:14] <toastydeath> as long as you have two seperate no/nc things
[03:30:17] <JymmmEMC> ah, a repeat cycle relay
[03:31:11] <toastydeath> hook the trigger into the nc on the 5 min, loop that around and latch it on both timer inputs
[03:31:19] <JymmmEMC> http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.aspx?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=885&RelatedCtlgPgs=885,886,887,888&term=Timer%20Relays&sesnextrep=438282168662942&ScreenWidth=1600
[03:31:40] <toastydeath> latch each of the relays to themselves independently, and it should be done
[03:31:41] <JymmmEMC> Switch-On Initiated Interval— Also known as single-shot, you set how long i
[03:33:14] <JymmmEMC> yeow $70
[03:33:36] <toastydeath> i wouldn't want that one
[03:33:37] <jmkasunich> you didn't really think it would be cheap did you?
[03:33:43] <toastydeath> because how i'd set it up, it would never turn on
[03:33:49] <toastydeath> not with a initial delay
[03:33:55] <JymmmEMC> $35/ea is what I thought
[03:33:56] <toastydeath> but you may have another idea
[03:34:08] <jmkasunich> PIC and a relay
[03:34:21] <jmkasunich> is this for a Halloween thing?
[03:34:26] <JymmmEMC> yeah
[03:34:51] <jmkasunich> if its only for one night, use the PC and classicladder
[03:35:04] <jmkasunich> end of night, PC goes back to normal PC stuff
[03:35:08] <stustev> the best idea
[03:35:20] <JymmmEMC> I build up more each year.
[03:35:22] <jmkasunich> all you need is one relay that can be controlled by the parport, and one digital input (also parport)
[03:36:13] <jmkasunich> you can still use the PC for whatever 364 days a year
[03:36:18] <jmkasunich> plug in the parport on one day
[03:36:29] <jmkasunich> you can do about 12 things with one parport
[03:54:33] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[04:05:50] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[04:18:40] <JymmmEMC> I just realized something.... The motion sensor light has a 90 second delay after power is applied before it can trigger the lights when it senses motion. I'm wondering if I can use this to my advantage somehow.
[04:19:55] <JymmmEMC> Now, the remote for the fog machine has a neon light and a momentary button. The light turns on after it's heated up and is "READY" to fire.
[04:20:55] <JymmmEMC> Hmmm, I gotta think about this some more =)
[04:45:07] <JymmmEMC> If you put a capacitor in parallel between 120VAC and one side of the coil on a relay, then removed power. Would the relay stayed closed until the cap drained?
[04:50:40] <JymmmEMC> Wait, it would need to be across the coil itself.
[11:01:52] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: you here?
[11:03:54] <BigJohnT> my new motorcycle http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/GW1500.jpg
[11:07:59] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: yeah, on and off
[11:08:23] <alex_joni> looks great
[11:08:37] <BigJohnT> thanks, rides like a lazyboy on wheels
[11:10:27] <Paragon> Hello All, Just found this on yourube (center finder) how easy / hard would this be to apply to EMC? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OZNiOvetYY
[11:13:22] <archivist_ub> hmm makes assumptions about endmill helix and circle roundness and positioning
[11:14:39] <archivist_ub> and machine/toolholder concentricity (should be rotating to remove)
[11:16:21] <Paragon> Yes it does. The reason why I am asking is that I want to make a fan / compressor wheel for an RC Heli I have. The one that comes as stock is quite fragile and I have broken two when starting the nitro engine. They use a oneway bearing and cost 20 UKP each :-(
[11:17:38] <archivist_ub> cant you press bearing into new fan
[11:18:58] <Paragon> BTW heres a picture of the fan and heli if your interested... http://www.centuryuk.com/Products/Helicopters+Spares/Nitro+Kestrel+SE?pos=24 and the heli http://www.centuryuk.com/Products/Ready+To+Fly+Radio+Control+Helicopters/item3081?startPos=10
[11:18:59] <archivist_ub> I use a centering dti to find a hole center
[11:19:53] <archivist_ub> hmm a friend is importing heli spares
[11:22:42] <archivist_ub> I cant see your part in his list
[11:23:16] <Paragon> I bought some 50mm dia Delrin stock which I hope to cut on my Denford Starmill once it's setup correctly. I was looking for an easy way to do repeatability with the view to making a aluminium fan eventualy. Just though it would be a good project. I have a copy of Rhino and RhinoCam that I purchased from a freind when he lost interested in CNC and have designed the fan with it. Have not cut...
[11:23:18] <Paragon> ...anything yet though ;-) . RhinoCam comes with an EMC post processor which is handy though I have not tested or verified it as yet.
[11:24:08] <Paragon> How much is your freind charging for it archivist_ub?
[11:24:19] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: bastard! =)
[11:24:21] <archivist_ub> he has not got it
[11:24:46] <Paragon> Oh no probs.
[11:25:07] <archivist_ub> I would make those on the rotary
[11:25:27] <Paragon> So do you think it would be straight forward in implementing that center finder within EMC?
[11:25:52] <archivist_ub> there is probing but dont know
[11:26:13] <SWPadnos> I thought someone had put a center finding probe routine on the wiki
[11:26:39] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: !!!! Dude man, ltns
[11:26:59] <SWPadnos> yreah - was pretty busy in Germany
[11:27:04] <SWPadnos> just got back last night
[11:27:21] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ah, I didn't even know you got deported =)
[11:27:21] <Paragon> I do not possess a 4th axis at this stage. I have been looking around for a manual rotary for conversion but not sure what to go for. The mill has the following travel x = 160mm y = 90mm Z= 120mm
[11:27:49] <BigJohnT> what JymmmEMC
[11:28:12] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: You heard me! (btw, nice bike)
[11:28:18] <BigJohnT> thanks
[11:28:28] <BigJohnT> wife even likes it
[11:28:30] <archivist_ub> Paragon, item 230294210251on epay
[11:28:42] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: what's the mileage and damage on it?
[11:28:51] <archivist_ub> if I had the cash......
[11:28:52] <BigJohnT> 30,000 none
[11:28:59] <JymmmEMC> free?
[11:29:00] <archivist_ub> yet
[11:29:07] <BigJohnT> I don't have the cash anymore
[11:29:14] <anonimasu> logger_emc: thislog
[11:29:14] <anonimasu> I'm logging. I don't understand 'thislog', anonimasu. Try /msg logger_emc help
[11:29:18] <anonimasu> logger_emc: bookmark
[11:29:18] <anonimasu> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-09-30.txt
[11:29:30] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: damage == $$$
[11:29:37] <BigJohnT> 98 with matching trailer 9k
[11:30:01] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: I hate you
[11:30:09] <BigJohnT> sorry dude
[11:30:14] <SWPadnos> is that a Gold Wing>
[11:30:16] <SWPadnos> ?
[11:30:18] <JymmmEMC> it's alright =)
[11:30:27] <BigJohnT> yes SWPadnos
[11:30:34] <BigJohnT> GL1500
[11:30:37] <SWPadnos> ok, I thought it looked familiar
[11:30:54] <BigJohnT> just bought it yesterday
[11:30:55] <Paragon> archivist_ub It's looks nice
[11:30:56] <SWPadnos> (I've only really looked at Gold Wings and some BMWs my neighbor had)
[11:31:12] <SWPadnos> I try to close all orifices when Harleys go by, so I don't see them much
[11:31:22] <BigJohnT> I could not find a BMW in my price range :(
[11:31:34] <anonimasu> what's wrong with harleys?
[11:31:36] <SWPadnos> they're nice and quiet, I'll say that
[11:31:44] <SWPadnos> that was for BigJohnT
[11:31:53] <anonimasu> :p
[11:31:58] <BigJohnT> hogs vibrate, noise, uncomfortable
[11:32:00] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, Harleys are always too damned loud
[11:32:13] <archivist_ub> bikes arnt supposed to be quiet :)
[11:32:26] <anonimasu> agreed
[11:32:31] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: I can hear my radio at 70mph with a helmet on it is so quiet
[11:32:33] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: We met a couple on their honeymoon once, they were touring the west half of the US on Goldwing and a trailer with a queen sized air mattress for the last 2 months. Had the trailer all setup for it.
[11:32:38] <SWPadnos> I like things that don't brag about their capabilities. Take the Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo
[11:32:53] <archivist_ub> get something exciting betweent your legs....ride a motorbike
[11:32:56] <Paragon> Plus they here you comming and know your've arrived :-)
[11:33:31] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: uh, that's like calling the porsche gt3 rs discrete.
[11:34:06] <BigJohnT> my trailer is just a utility trailer with a fiberglas shell and painted to match the motorcycle
[11:34:06] <SWPadnos> I've been passed by a Ferrarri Testarossa - those were pretty quiet too :)
[11:34:46] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: FWIW... I got Ubuntu 8.04.1 AMD64 + VMserver2 installed and running on that crapiertop
[11:34:54] <SWPadnos> cool
[11:35:11] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: This trailer was kinda like a pop-up tent.
[11:35:14] <SWPadnos> I missed the fact that the VirtualBox package doesn't support 64-bit clients
[11:35:35] <BigJohnT> I've seen those before they are neat
[11:35:49] <SWPadnos> I had it running on my nephew's computer, but then he needed some dumb USB wifi stick to work, so he's probably blown away the Ubuntu install for Vista64
[11:36:56] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, the nice thing about vmserver2 is that it's all browser based, and the remote console is just a browser plugin that you can dl from the console
[11:37:33] <SWPadnos> I'll probably wait for the package, but maybe not
[11:38:21] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I found a page that gives exact instructions. They only thing I had to do was change the g++/gcc versions from 4.1 to 4.2 and that was it.
[11:38:32] <SWPadnos> compiling should be pretty fast with a Phenom 9850 X4 :)
[11:38:46] <SWPadnos> cool. if you find that page again, let me know
[11:40:52] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I believe this was it https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Server/AMD64
[11:40:59] <SWPadnos> oh, that was quick :)
[11:41:22] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, I'm documenting everything anymore
[11:41:33] <Paragon> BTW can you mix stepper and servo control within EMC?
[11:41:37] <SWPadnos> of course
[11:41:52] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I still forgot how to install flash =)
[11:42:09] <Paragon> I thought it should be possible. Thanks
[11:42:18] <SWPadnos> in 8.04, there's supposed to be a firefox extension manager, but I don't remember how to get to it
[11:42:35] <SWPadnos> you can also search for "flash" in synaptic, and install from there
[11:42:38] <SWPadnos> it works for me
[11:42:48] <JymmmEMC> I think if you update it'll find/install it.
[11:48:04] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Now I just have to figure out what all the files are under the VM. I created a BASIC install of debian, and it's 600MB as a VM
[11:48:44] <SWPadnos> ? did you do a fixed size disk image or one that grows?
[11:48:59] <SWPadnos> (I guess I didn't understand the question)
[11:49:46] <Paragon> OMG this guy built this on the same Mill I have ... http://craftsmanshipmuseum.com/tomlinson.htm
[11:51:43] <BigJohnT> time to head out
[11:54:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Sorry, that 600MB included a snapshot. so it's probably less than 300mb for the install
[11:54:18] <SWPadnos> cool
[11:55:47] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: The only thing I need to see if it's possible is todo some bandwidth shaping using the virtual switch
[11:56:12] <SWPadnos> outside the VM (so it doesn't have to help)?
[11:56:20] <archivist_ub> Paragon, if only I had the time ive been dreaming of a deltic engine model for years
[11:57:12] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Yeah, that way to can set a max bandwidth and never worry about runaway processes or anythign else sucking down the whole pipe
[11:57:47] <Paragon> archivist_ub: Time Time Time .... ;-)
[11:58:37] <archivist_ub> there was a nice aero engine at Ascot
[12:01:35] <Paragon> Ascot at the MEW show?
[12:02:30] <archivist_ub> yes
[12:02:59] <archivist_ub> I went on the Friday
[12:03:53] <Paragon> Missed the last one but was there for the previous two or three. Usualy spend time drinking tea with Steve for home and workshop LOL
[12:04:38] <Paragon> BTW I bought my Starmill from him...
[12:06:50] <archivist_ub> Last few years Ive only made it to the Tee Publishing Midlands show
[12:08:00] <Paragon> Never been to that one. archivist_ub Is the a good paper on probing with EMC?
[12:08:16] <archivist_ub> see wiki I think
[12:08:51] <Paragon> Just found this ... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Touch_Probe
[12:11:34] <archivist_ub> I should take pics of the inside of a probe I have, but its a little large being on a size 50 taper
[12:12:24] <archivist_ub> shines LEDs on contact to a receiver similar to Renishaw
[12:12:57] <archivist_ub> far too big for my morse 2 taper
[12:13:34] <Paragon> Yeah that is large..
[12:30:54] <Paragon> Just worked out a way to use that center finder technique.. I currently use shared homeing so the homes one axis at a time. I could use the same pin for the center finder with a known offset (radius of the copper tube) and known height. So I could use the standed home procedure. What do you think?
[12:31:32] <SWPadnos> so you're out of inputs?
[12:33:30] <Paragon> No it's just that my hal command experience is not the greatest at the moment. I would not be using the center finder that often either. How could I implement it on another pin and keep my current homeing procedure?
[12:33:57] <SWPadnos> homing and probing are separate functions. unless you have to, I wouldn't use the same pin for them
[12:34:53] <SWPadnos> you need exactly one hal command to connect a parallel port input to the probe input. it will be something like "net probe-in parport.0.pin-##-in motion.probe-input"
[12:35:02] <SWPadnos> or use in-not if you need it inverted
[12:35:35] <Paragon> Oh I was not going to probe with it but rather find set 0,0,0 in center of round stock automaticlay.
[12:36:32] <Paragon> How can I set the offset (relative) when a pin is trigered?
[12:36:57] <Paragon> In the same way home is set.
[12:37:13] <SWPadnos> I don't know if that's possible
[12:37:56] <SWPadnos> finding the center of a hole is a multi-touch proposition. you calculate the center from the values you get probing several edge locations
[12:38:25] <Paragon> So I would probably need to trigger the home pin to set Actual home and then offset from there?
[12:38:28] <SWPadnos> you can't change the HOME_OFFSET, which is what you'd use to change the location of the "home contact"
[12:38:42] <SWPadnos> homing and motion use different motion planners
[12:38:50] <SWPadnos> homing is not a coordinated motion
[12:39:05] <SWPadnos> you can change an offset like G92, but you can't home
[12:39:22] <SWPadnos> homing is also run from HAL pins, not G-code
[12:39:40] <SWPadnos> so you can't trip the "home input" wherever you want
[12:40:50] <Paragon> Sure. Thats what I am after so emc can set cords to 0,0,0. heres what I would like to achive (if you did not see it already) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OZNiOvetYY
[12:43:00] <archivist_ub> that also relies on the probe moving else the cutter breaks
[12:43:04] <SWPadnos> sure - use G92 offfsets for that
[12:43:23] <SWPadnos> it's only held by hand - unlikely to break a tool :)
[12:43:30] <SWPadnos> except for the depth
[12:43:52] <archivist_ub> Im thinking accuracy
[12:44:29] <SWPadnos> well, the accuracy is as good as your eye + parallax + probe doohicky construction
[12:45:14] <Paragon> I was thinking about pluging it into my home pin so that when the finder is in use it will trip on the eges of the copper tube (Say 40mm Dia) and set x = 0 then move + or - 20mm then do the same for the y axis and finaly find height for Z. Hows that sound?
[12:45:15] <SWPadnos> and as you (?) pointed out, it relies on the cutter being really close to a cylinder
[12:45:30] <SWPadnos> it wouldn't work so well with a 2-flute high helix cutter
[12:45:35] <SWPadnos> or a 1-flute ...
[12:45:56] <archivist_ub> and a bent machine spindle
[12:46:09] <SWPadnos> Paragon, that would only work if it were already centered
[12:46:40] <SWPadnos> ie, you center in the tube, then move -X and set home, then -Y (or whatever)
[12:46:50] <SWPadnos> but of course you need to know the tool diameter also
[12:46:57] <SWPadnos> since that changes the HOME_OFFSET
[12:49:01] <archivist_ub> I use a diacator http://www.diatest.com/index.php?id=39 to find a hole center/rotary table center
[12:49:38] <SWPadnos> you work with a fully outfitted machine shop ;)
[12:49:51] <archivist_ub> :)
[12:50:38] <archivist_ub> thats my tool, this place hasnt got
[12:50:41] <Paragon> Yeah you are right I would need the probe or cutter to be in the center before starting due to using a tube right?
[12:50:55] <SWPadnos> yes, if you want to use it as a simple HOME input
[12:51:12] <SWPadnos> G92 is your friend though
[12:51:42] <SWPadnos> you can do the multiple-probe/calculation in G-code, and set G92 offsets so the center acts like 0,0,0
[12:51:52] <Paragon> OK thanks Chaps .. I look into G92 and probing pins.
[12:52:22] <archivist_ub> wow I just found the new price of a diacator
[12:52:36] <SWPadnos> heh - ok :)
[12:52:44] <SWPadnos> archivist_ub, how many moths pay is it?
[12:52:46] <archivist_ub> £645
[12:52:47] <SWPadnos> months
[12:52:49] <SWPadnos> ouch
[12:53:06] <archivist_ub> http://www.measureshop.biz/en/measuring-instruments/dial-bore-and-depth-gauges/centring-devices/diacator-centring-devices.html
[12:53:30] <archivist_ub> got mine second hand for a lot less
[12:53:34] <Paragon> Not cheap ... more than I paid for my StarMill :-)
[12:56:02] <Paragon> Touch Off : http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems#Touch_Off
[12:56:54] <fragalot_> fragalot_ is now known as fragalot
[13:35:20] <Jymm> SWPadnos: This is just way too cool, been looking for this for 20 years!!! http://www.xmonad.org/
[13:36:33] <SWPadnos> I've heard of monad before
[13:37:02] <Jymm> check out the videos
[13:37:08] <Jymm> looks pretty cool
[13:37:17] <toastatwork> how does it handle stuff like pidgin
[13:37:22] <toastatwork> where one window is long and skinny
[13:37:29] <SWPadnos> I started watching one. the music got annoying and I couldn't read the text, so I stopped it :)
[13:37:51] <Jymm> SWPadnos: you goober, it aint about the text, it's about the windows man!
[13:38:24] <Jymm> no more anoying resize gabs futzing with everything!!!
[13:38:29] <Jymm> gaps
[13:38:59] <Jymm> Now, if I only had 3 32" LCD's...
[13:39:12] <SWPadnos> too much screen real estate
[13:39:49] <Jymm> Well, too much desk real estate
[13:39:54] <SWPadnos> dual 30" setups are too big also - you can't see it all without swiveling your head all the time (which reduces the usefulness)
[13:40:09] <SWPadnos> it seems weird, but there is such a thing as too much screen real estate
[13:40:14] <Jymm> You can if you push it back though
[13:40:33] <SWPadnos> sure, then use large text, thereby losing the benefit of a large screen ...
[13:40:47] <Jymm> give and take, give and take
[13:41:08] <Jymm> SWPadnos: Become one with the LCD's
[13:41:37] <toastatwork> with large multi-monitor setups i usually used 3 monitors, and left the rest to do other things like monitoring
[13:41:40] <toastatwork> not really active use
[13:42:04] <SWPadnos> I've got 3x 19"-ish screens on this PC, and I could use a little more
[13:42:17] <SWPadnos> I like the triple setup because you still have one "front and center"
[13:42:39] <SWPadnos> dual-monitor setups either have one primary and one secondary, or you have a border in front of your nose :)
[13:42:55] <toastatwork> with six i found that i liked up, center, and left
[13:43:10] <toastatwork> the other three just had monitoring stuff, music, etc
[13:43:20] <toastatwork> probably could have done without them
[13:43:27] <SWPadnos> never tried more than 3
[13:44:23] <toastatwork> it was okay.
[13:45:09] <toastatwork> the most i ever stood in front of was 12, and played doom 3 on 9
[13:45:13] <toastatwork> both at the same place
[13:45:39] <toastatwork> the 12 was a monitoring wall, and the doom 3 was a show box
[13:56:03] <Jymm> I have three screens, and switching between them can be a pita.
[13:56:27] <archivist_ub> I run dual at home
[13:57:20] <Jymm> Anything smaller than 32" is limited to 1980 wide, and I like two-up pages which means for most websites at 1024 would need to be 2048 wide or higher, which means 32"
[13:59:01] <SWPadnos> 30" displays are almost all 2560x1600
[13:59:16] <Jymm> SWPadnos: find one
[13:59:22] <SWPadnos> apple cinema 30"
[13:59:24] <SWPadnos> dfell 30"
[13:59:25] <SWPadnos> dell
[13:59:59] <Jymm> apple, please insert YOUR credit card here --> [ ]
[14:00:10] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001098
[14:00:23] <archivist_ub> slot not wide enough error
[14:00:51] <SWPadnos> NewEgg has 5 models that are 30", 2560x1600
[14:01:32] <Jymm> Ah, sorry... I meant single DVI
[14:01:45] <SWPadnos> right :)
[14:02:47] <Jymm> SWPadnos: I'm still looking for the "perfect" box to buy/build
[14:02:58] <SWPadnos> you won't find it. you're too cheap ;)
[14:03:12] <archivist_ub> get on with using
[14:03:41] <Jymm> SWPadnos: I'm sorry, I can't afford $45,000 - but then it wouldn't be "perfect" now would it =)
[14:03:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:03:50] <SWPadnos> what kind of budget would you like?
[14:03:56] <archivist_ub> 5$
[14:04:13] <SWPadnos> I just put together two boxes, one AMD one Intel, for $1200-$1500 each without monitors
[14:04:17] <fenn> archivist_ub: footswitch to flip between virtual desktops
[14:04:50] <Jymm> SWPadnos: If it can do what I want I'm will to spend the money. But not gonna find it.
[14:04:52] <SWPadnos> those are excellent gaming boxes, close to $500 could have been saved by going with a lesser video card and motherboard
[14:05:16] <SWPadnos> what CPU (cores/speed), RAM, video do you need?
[14:05:49] <SWPadnos> oh - you're going to want a rackmount server box, dual or quad-chip, big memory expansion, etc, right?
[14:05:56] <Jymm> SWPadnos: quad cpu, 16gb, 8bay SATA RAID60 or 50
[14:06:10] <SWPadnos> 4 chips or 4 cores?
[14:06:16] <SWPadnos> or 4x4-core chips? :)
[14:06:36] <Jymm> 4cpu, 4 core each
[14:06:58] <Jymm> or dual core each if I can affrod it better
[14:06:58] <SWPadnos> ok, then you're in the $1500 range for the MB alone
[14:07:10] <SWPadnos> the chips aren't the problem, it's the sockets
[14:07:29] <SWPadnos> though you'll need low-power ones for thermal management
[14:07:44] <Jymm> Well, I did find a 1U box with dual systesm in it
[14:07:52] <Jymm> supermicro
[14:07:59] <Jymm> but I want hot swap drives
[14:08:02] <SWPadnos> does it have to be 1U, or is 2 OK?
[14:08:09] <Jymm> 2u ok for home
[14:08:14] <SWPadnos> sure
[14:08:17] <Jymm> I'll toss it in the rack
[14:08:39] <SWPadnos> 1U is hard - you need stuff like angled DIMM sockets or special short DIMMs
[14:08:46] <SWPadnos> special fans ...
[14:09:04] <Jymm> maybe even 3u, which iirc allows for full system
[14:09:09] <SWPadnos> yep
[14:09:26] <SWPadnos> 4u is full-size, 3u is close enough since we don't use 5.25" disks any more
[14:09:46] <Jymm> SWPadnos: That rack I have is 1/3 or 14U, I can fit some nice things in there
[14:10:01] <SWPadnos> yep, it's good size
[14:10:05] <Jymm> esp if I get rid of the 80p switch
[14:10:07] <SWPadnos> d
[14:10:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:10:25] <Jymm> 6a for that alone
[14:10:56] <Jymm> though it would be fun to have a lan party on it
[14:11:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:11:46] <Jymm> But I saw some 24p gigabit switches with traffic shaping
[14:12:02] <Jymm> and fiber uplinks for ~$50
[14:12:06] <Jymm> $450
[14:12:24] <SWPadnos> I was gonna say
[14:12:33] <Jymm> =) typo
[14:12:47] <SWPadnos> there are some pretty good ones for $325 or so (new) - managed layer 2 or layer 3 Gb switches, 16 or 24 ports
[14:12:52] <SWPadnos> plus a couple of GBIC
[14:13:22] <Jymm> so 3U for the UPS, 1u for 24p sw, still leaves 10U for other things
[14:13:40] <Jymm> and I could possible mount the switch in the back
[14:14:11] <SWPadnos> you'd probably still want a small patch panel on the front though
[14:14:18] <Jymm> for?
[14:14:20] <SWPadnos> in the same 1u
[14:14:35] <SWPadnos> for connecting things in front of the rack
[14:14:42] <Jymm> like?
[14:14:46] <SWPadnos> computers
[14:15:03] <SWPadnos> ie, bring laptop over, plug in
[14:15:03] <Jymm> you mena the racked ones that connect in the rear?
[14:15:05] <Jymm> =)
[14:15:20] <SWPadnos> no, naturally not those computers ;)
[14:15:36] <Jymm> I could run a cat5 out the back
[14:15:43] <Jymm> to the front
[14:16:18] <Jymm> but we're taking 24 cables too
[14:17:01] <Jymm> talking
[14:17:43] <Jymm> SWPadnos: Though, what I REALLY want is mass redundant storage
[14:18:10] <Jymm> Say it with me boys and girls... PETA BYTES
[14:19:23] <SWPadnos> pet bytes, how cute
[14:19:58] <Jymm> SWPadnos: BYTE ME!
[14:21:27] <Jymm> No, I just want an 8 drive storage, 2 being hot spares
[14:22:37] <Jymm> my only real option that I've seen is SAS
[14:22:48] <Jymm> which I'm not really that familure with
[14:36:17] <mr_boo_> mr_boo_ is now known as mr_boo
[14:58:10] <jepler> I never did find a solder bridge on that board. I now suspect I fried the microcontroller; earlier I had bridged from an I/O pin to an LED (bypassing the current limiting resistor) and then let it run for a good fraction of a minute. It was after fixing that bridge that it didn't work right again.
[14:58:54] <jepler> I'm going to re-do the board with increased distance from the ground plane to non-GND pads so that hopefully I don't screw up the board so many times getting it soldered
[14:58:58] <cradek> I hook LEDs directly to AVRs all the time
[14:59:19] <jepler> I've done it before too
[14:59:31] <jepler> but if I can't find the short, it must be the microcontroller
[15:01:28] <jepler> (my continuity meter didn't find any shorts between vcc and gnd, any I/O and gnd, or any I/O and vcc, or any pair of adjacent I/Os)
[15:01:51] <jepler> (though testing all those combinations I probably missed a few :-P)
[15:02:42] <archivist_ub> I put a very bright light behind a board and view with magnifier to find shorts sometimes or use a low ohm meter capable of the difference in track length to show where a short is
[15:02:44] <cradek> it would be neat if someone who knows metric speeds/feeds would make a metric version of my graphs:
[15:02:48] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/01192416516
[15:03:36] <jepler> cradek: seems like it's just a matter of knowing what units are commonly referred to in metric (?)
[15:03:48] <archivist_ub> hmm or cheat and use a sandvik calculator
[15:04:58] <BigJohnT> cradek: what kind of bike do you have?
[15:05:29] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub has a Norton circa 1956 (resting)
[15:05:43] <BigJohnT> nice
[15:17:29] <BigJohnT> like this archivist_ub http://www.e-d-s.co.uk/bikepics/pages/Norton%201956%20ES2_jpg.htm
[15:18:08] <archivist_ub> similar its a 600 single
[15:18:22] <archivist_ub> most cannot tell the difference
[15:19:27] <archivist_ub> pull up amongst bikrs and they go oo es2, no model 50 no then they are stumped...19s
[15:19:38] <BigJohnT> for years I wanted a BSA 441 single
[15:20:13] <archivist_ub> the grown up starfire
[15:20:30] <archivist_ub> which was a 250
[15:20:51] <archivist_ub> which is what I had
[15:20:59] <BigJohnT> never could collect enough money for one back then
[15:21:26] <BigJohnT> had a Honda 300 Dream instead I purchased for $25
[15:21:31] <BigJohnT> in a box
[15:24:38] <BigJohnT> actually there were 2 complete 300's in one pile, I had to pick one out...
[15:24:58] <BigJohnT> both were completely apart
[15:25:03] <archivist_ub> did you get all the best bits
[15:25:37] <BigJohnT> you bet, I went and got a manual then with the parts pages in one hand I picked out the best parts
[15:28:17] <Paragon37> cradek got the motor spindle motor under EMC control via ild74 opto as we discussed yeterday. Works A treat. I just need to workout spindle speed.
[15:28:30] <cradek> neat.
[15:28:57] <Paragon37> What HAL directive can one use to calculate RPM?
[15:29:14] <cradek> what do you mean?
[15:30:30] <Paragon37> well I have a magnetic pickup on the spindle which pulses on every rotation I was thinking of caounting them adn displaying RPM in EMC
[15:31:30] <cradek> Paragon37: that will take a LOT of smoothing to be useful. more pulses would be better.
[15:31:40] <cradek> consider how few pulses per second you have at low hundreds of rpm
[15:32:47] <cradek> jepler: I bet I could guess, but for choosing the best possible lines it would be nice to get advice from someone whose gut feel for speed/feed is calibrated in metric
[15:32:51] <Paragon37> I agree I do have a couple of encoders laying around. How does EMC determine RPM say in the case of threading etc...
[15:33:08] <cradek> Paragon37: threading uses position, not rpm
[15:33:38] <cradek> if you have an encoder counting spindle position, you can use the encoder block's velocity output for rpm, or if it doesn't have one, use a ddt block
[15:34:02] <cradek> BigJohnT: http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2007models/2007-Honda-VT1100C2ShadowSabreb.jpg
[15:34:17] <cradek> BigJohnT: mine is just black, no stupid flames
[15:37:19] <Paragon37> Cradek sorry I meant tapping operation in the mill. Would you not need a precise rpm and feedrate on the Z axis?
[15:37:35] <BigJohnT> cool, I filled up this morning and got $5 change from a $20 bill
[15:37:38] <cradek> you only need an encoder
[15:37:41] <archivist_ub> else broken tap
[15:38:13] <cradek> emc2 has rigid tapping so the spindle rpm does not have to be closely controlled. the Z axis just follows the spindle position read by the encoder
[15:38:38] <Paragon37> ok :-)
[15:39:14] <cradek> obviously you need many counts per revolution so it can effectively follow the reversal at the bottom of the hole
[15:42:52] <BigJohnT> cradek: what kind of mileage do you get with your 1100?
[15:50:37] <cradek> BigJohnT: about 37
[15:51:00] <cradek> 120 miles/tank, looks like the tank (plus reserve) is 3.4 gals
[15:58:34] <cradek> that's why I laughed when you said you would get 50 on your much larger bike :-)
[16:00:04] <BigJohnT> most of the goldwing owners tell me they get 45 mpg
[16:00:49] <BigJohnT> 6.3 gallon tank
[16:00:50] <cradek> huh, maybe the V twin is just inefficient
[16:00:57] <cradek> is the gw fuel injected?
[16:01:09] <BigJohnT> mine is 6 cyl
[16:01:23] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT goes out to look
[16:01:24] <cradek> I know - I mean maybe mine is just unusually bad
[16:01:42] <cradek> if it's FI that could make a huge difference
[16:02:23] <cradek> but who cares - I bet you didn't buy it to save gas anyway.
[16:02:42] <BigJohnT> well, somewhat
[16:02:51] <BigJohnT> my truck gets 17
[16:07:09] <BigJohnT> nope mine had carbs
[16:07:16] <BigJohnT> has
[16:07:36] <BigJohnT> just looked on cheapcycleparts.com
[16:26:04] <eric_u> emc will work for christmas lights, correct?
[16:26:49] <cradek> uh
[16:27:07] <archivist_ub> what have you been drinking eric_u
[16:27:30] <toastatwork> EGGNOG
[16:27:37] <eric_u> I read that it meets the spec for RS-374 christmas lights
[16:27:43] <cradek> yes too much eggnog
[16:28:50] <eric_u> as long as you can pwm on solid state relays, I'm good
[16:28:58] <eric_u> just hook it up like a stepper
[16:29:17] <cradek> oh were you asking an actual question?
[16:29:24] <eric_u> as long as all I want to do is play "daisy" on my lights
[16:29:35] <cradek> I just can't tell
[16:29:52] <eric_u> where's the fun in being able to tell?
[16:31:34] <eric_u> I was trying to get in here last night, and pidgin wouldn't let me
[16:31:39] <eric_u> I could see the motd
[16:38:01] <eric_u> cradek, the guy sitting next to me is saying nice things about your web site
[16:38:15] <cradek> that's nice of him
[16:38:24] <cradek> anything in particular?
[16:38:29] <eric_u> nixie clocks
[16:38:42] <cradek> ah
[16:38:53] <cradek> earlier today I pointed the bridgeport-mill list to my sfm/ipm graphs
[16:39:06] <cradek> the only response I got so far was "they're not in metric" *sigh*
[16:39:23] <eric_u> I subscribe to that, but don't read it
[16:39:32] <cradek> that's often the case with me too
[16:40:00] <cradek> the quality of information there is ... mixed
[16:40:20] <eric_u> where is the page?
[16:40:21] <fenn> what do they talk about on the bridgeport list?
[16:40:37] <eric_u> low information content usually
[16:40:44] <cradek> fenn: people who don't know the basics of machining, like surface speed, ask about it over and over
[16:41:01] <cradek> fenn: occasionally there is discussion about paint color
[16:41:08] <cradek> you know, the usual
[16:41:10] <fenn> "battleship gray"
[16:41:32] <fenn> does anyone do hotrod flames or maybe yellow and green camo
[16:41:52] <fenn> pimp my bridgeport
[16:41:52] <cradek> painting the machine an appropriate color seems to be either the first, most important, or only step to "restoration" depending on who you ask
[16:43:46] <eric_u> cradek, where is the sfm/ipm page?
[16:44:08] <cradek> see the front page of my website, third entry down
[16:44:58] <eric_u> that's nice, too bad it's not in metric
[16:44:59] <eric_u> :)
[16:45:25] <cradek> it's gpl - the source is there - I'll happily host a metric version of the graphs if someone makes them
[16:45:33] <eric_u> I generally don't use metric
[16:46:43] <cradek> I wish there was a commonly used format like pdf but that could also be edited directly with free tools
[16:46:58] <BigJohnT> ME Too!
[16:46:59] <cradek> it's unlikely that as people pass these graphs around that the 'source' will stay with them
[16:47:02] <eric_u> pdf works
[16:47:07] <archivist_ub> I hates pdf with a vengeance
[16:47:25] <eric_u> seems like all the linux tools will edit directly
[16:47:54] <archivist_ub> idle web sites with a link page to pdfs of brochure wear
[16:48:14] <eric_u> my main problem is the reader
[16:48:40] <eric_u> I stupidly installed adobe reader on my linux desktop
[16:49:26] <SWPadnos> in theory, openoffice 3 will allow PDF editing (it already exports, they're adding an import filter)
[16:49:54] <SWPadnos> the problem is that the PDF format separates each line of text as a separate element, and apparently the importer leaves them that way
[16:50:13] <SWPadnos> so it would be back to the days of manual word wrapping :)
[16:50:47] <eric_u> that's why I prefer latex
[16:51:31] <archivist_ub> rubber fetish
[16:51:48] <fragalot> XP SP3 rules
[16:51:50] <fragalot> since i've installed it (2 days ago) I've had 5 bluescreens.
[16:52:02] <fenn> you could embed the source in the pdf somehow maybe? how about svg instead of pdf (like this http://www.freesteel.co.uk/wpblog/2007/02/one-tapered-tool-diagram-coming-up/
[16:52:13] <eric_u> we haven't seen any blue screens
[16:52:33] <fragalot> eric_u: Thats because you (like all sane people) use linux all the time
[16:52:56] <eric_u> yeah, but we have a batch of computers running 'doz
[16:52:59] <archivist_ub> I has xp on my craptop
[16:53:26] <eric_u> I have it on my desktops and laptops, but you have to switch grub to use it
[16:53:33] <fragalot> I has a craptop on my XP
[16:53:53] <eric_u> grad students don't use linux
[16:54:16] <eric_u> and data acquisition is much more difficult
[16:54:18] <fragalot> eric_u: I do.
[16:54:25] <fragalot> I just use vmware :/
[16:54:28] <eric_u> freakish
[16:54:39] <fragalot> but on my home box, as it's mainly a gaming rig/entertainment system,.. It's just XP
[16:54:47] <fragalot> all I need is a gameloader & video player on that box :p
[16:55:00] <eric_u> I wanna set up virualbox, haven't gotten around to it
[16:55:19] <fragalot> I can't seem to run EMC in virtualbox
[16:55:23] <fragalot> is that me, or the cd?
[16:55:25] <eric_u> funny thing is, at work our server is a windows 2k server running in vmware on a redhat 9 system
[16:55:43] <fragalot> eric_u: hehe, happens more often than you'd think
[16:55:57] <fragalot> safer, easier,..
[16:55:59] <eric_u> makes adding a hard drive an adventure though
[16:56:08] <fragalot> how so?
[16:56:16] <fragalot> power it down, go to menu, hit "add HD", done.
[16:56:22] <eric_u> we added a hard drive to the system, windows couldn't see it
[16:56:36] <fragalot> no, because you have to tell vmware to "forward" the harddisk
[16:56:38] <dushantch> I got prices for those chineese AC servo axes, motor + drive 1kW 715$
[16:56:44] <eric_u> rather, it would format ok, then it wouldn't access it
[16:57:17] <dushantch> have the whole pricelist if anyone is interested, those are last year prices
[16:57:20] <fragalot> eric_u: haha, pwnt
[16:57:30] <fragalot> dushantch: me me!! me!! :p
[16:57:39] <eric_u> yes, it was a barrel of laughs
[16:57:46] <fragalot> eric_u: lol
[16:58:01] <dushantch> fragalot: they say that shipping is 7eu/kg by plane
[16:58:14] <fragalot> dushantch: cheap
[16:58:55] <dushantch> http://www.gsk.com.cn/ -largest chinese cnc drive maker
[16:59:31] <fragalot> dushantch: most things where I work at is from quicktech
[17:00:02] <fragalot> cheap machines, not the fastest you've ever seen, but they're a dream to fix if something breaks, uber simple guts, and they just plain work reliably
[17:00:49] <fragalot> not to mention awesome support guys :p
[17:02:02] <fenn> quicktech.com.tw wants to hack your browser :P
[17:02:19] <fragalot> fenn: other site :p
[17:02:33] <fragalot> http://www.quick-tech.com.my I think it's this one
[17:04:43] <fragalot> got the VMC-1070, 3 VMC 640's of which one is 5-axis, 2 XP4-42 SM lathes with barfeeders, a lil' QT-15 for "24/7 slave work" :p and 3 other lathes from DAEWOO, which tend to break down faster, and are crappy to repair
[17:04:57] <dushantch> alex_joni: have you had any experience with these people? www.uranus.ro , they're importing chineese ac servo drives, not expensive, so as they're near I'm thinking of going through them and not directly to factory
[17:05:36] <fenn> they certainly look happy
[17:06:46] <fragalot> "Yeah! another victim.. I mean customer!"
[17:06:59] <fragalot> "DUDE, I just broke the highscore on this game!"
[17:07:00] <fragalot> :p
[17:07:24] <fragalot> 'I crashed..' "but.. you're our stock market?" 'Yeah,.. sorry'
[17:28:48] <anonimasu> dushantch: did you get a quote?
[17:29:17] <dushantch> anonimasu: I got last year pricelist, very cheap
[17:30:06] <dushantch> anonimasu: Now i'm writing to romanian distributor to see what they can offer, so that I don't have to buy directly from China.
[17:30:28] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[17:30:36] <anonimasu> whta was the price per axis?
[17:31:08] <dushantch> motor+amp: DA98(A,B)-10-110SJT-M040D 715.00$ incl 1000W, 4NM, 2500rpm, 4.5A, 110 support Servo Motor
[17:31:19] <dushantch> :)
[17:31:20] <anonimasu> not a bad deal
[17:31:39] <dushantch> dunno, omron wanted 1600eu :)
[17:32:23] <anonimasu> hehe 500eur per axis is a great deal then
[17:32:57] <fragalot> not to mention it's likely that replacement parts can be found in your local electronics store
[17:32:57] <dushantch> If it work :)
[17:33:05] <anonimasu> hehe
[17:33:07] <fragalot> unlike most expensive stuff, that use propretary hardware, or stuff that's hard to get
[17:33:24] <anonimasu> you can just buy new if it breaks..
[17:33:29] <anonimasu> or repair it..
[17:33:31] <dushantch> it has same capabilities as omron drive, atleast those I need
[17:33:38] <anonimasu> with a fanuc motor it's $$$$$$$$$$
[17:33:43] <dushantch> It's cheaper to buy new :)
[17:33:53] <anonimasu> yep
[17:34:36] <dushantch> btw. is 83$ a lot for new electric handwheel?
[17:34:49] <fragalot> I'd say no
[17:34:51] <anonimasu> no
[17:35:00] <dushantch> they have that too :)
[17:35:10] <fragalot> I think the knob alone would cost about the same if you'd buy it seperately
[17:35:15] <anonimasu> yep
[17:35:23] <fragalot> dushantch: send that pricelist :(
[17:35:59] <anonimasu> dushantch: if it's possible to buy from them check if you can get a discount if you order more at once
[17:36:41] <dushantch> they have some european distributors, I contacted the nearest and we'll see what prices will they give me
[17:37:06] <anonimasu> I'm thinking if they are in ro maybe working something out with alex would be possible
[17:37:07] <anonimasu> :)
[17:37:09] <dushantch> this pricelist I have is lastyears, my friend bought some drives from them
[17:37:16] <anonimasu> as he lives there :)
[17:37:18] <dushantch> the dist is in ro
[17:37:57] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[17:38:03] <dushantch> btw. where to upload the pricelist?
[17:38:09] <anonimasu> www.filebin.ca
[17:40:18] <dushantch> oh and that wurth oil is like 2,5eu/l :) looks like they didn't riped me off :)
[17:41:45] <dushantch> HLP viscosity 10
[17:42:21] <dushantch> here's the pricelist http://filebin.ca/uyehch/GSK-QUOTATION-06-03-2007.pdf
[17:46:04] <fragalot> ty
[17:46:07] <fragalot> * fragalot takes a peek
[17:46:12] <pierp> hi all
[17:46:20] <pierp> about filters in axis
[17:46:36] <fragalot> dushantch: prices in USD?
[17:46:42] <anonimasu> hm..
[17:46:43] <anonimasu> spindles..
[17:46:43] <pierp> I am not able to make it work
[17:46:47] <anonimasu> neat..
[17:46:51] <pierp> I managed once
[17:47:17] <pierp> was reading http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BFILTER%5D-Section
[17:47:48] <pierp> and trying to practice with the nc_files/holecircle.py script
[17:47:51] <anonimasu> dushantch: that's a great deal..
[17:48:05] <fragalot> Aye it is
[17:48:12] <fragalot> I'm forwarding this list as we speak to my boss
[17:48:13] <fragalot> :p
[17:48:37] <pierp> but I get a tuple error
[17:48:59] <dushantch> prices in US$
[17:49:43] <dushantch> atleast i was told that :)
[17:49:56] <fragalot> dushantch: neat
[17:50:50] <anonimasu> well, they are great even in euro.
[17:51:30] <dushantch> not in kuvaitian dinars :)
[17:51:44] <anonimasu> kuvaitian?
[17:51:55] <dushantch> but there's shipping, import taxes etc.
[17:52:41] <dushantch> anonimasu: the currency in kuvait, the place with strongest currency :)
[17:52:47] <anonimasu> lol
[17:54:41] <dushantch> btw. the funny thing is that my current spindle for x axis, 600mm is 25x1mm :)
[17:54:46] <dushantch> only 1 mm pitch
[17:55:02] <anonimasu> wow that's find pitched
[17:55:36] <dushantch> yeah, but brass nut :), looks like I'm gonna change it with ball nut and screw
[17:56:05] <dushantch> and the z one is 25x5mm :)
[17:57:25] <dushantch> the thing is I can't squeeze any more than 120mm belt wheel there, so I'm halted at 4:1 reduction, if it can manage the power, haven't calculated that yet :)
[17:57:58] <dushantch> the belt on 30mm one I mean :)
[18:01:02] <dushantch> found those calculations for ball screws, looks like that screws rigidity is 4 times greater if it's axially fixed at both ends\
[18:03:18] <dushantch> and it's max rpm is 45% greater (rigidity wise, as the self induced oscilation frequency is higher)
[18:05:46] <tomp> the duty on the drives may not be much ( have it marked as "repair parts" ;) and the shipping can be cheap if you can wait 6-8 weeks by boat. tho you gotta pay all when it gets to their boat.
[18:17:00] <dushantch> i'm trying to find out how long is guarantee, but I think that I'll overspecify the drives so that they don't brek :)
[18:22:09] <Paragon> I am attempting to install EMC2 on Hardy within vmware (simulator). I have executed the emc2-install.sh script and am being prompted to install the rtai kernel is still a necessity if one only wants to run EMC in simulator mode?
[18:34:45] <Paragon> OK I am following these instruction for puresim http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Pure_Simulator
[18:39:11] <dushantch> for using with emc2 is this a good setup: mesa 5i23 (230$)+2x7i37T(80$)+7i33T(80$)+3xKB24(15$)=515$? would be 105$ cheaper if I use plain 5i20 and rest without terminal strips. Is 5i23 supported as 5i20 is?
[18:39:49] <jepler> dushantch: I don't think 5i23 is supported yet.
[18:41:08] <dushantch> jepler: thanks, it has diff FPGA but hosmot is same?
[18:43:10] <jepler> all the hostmot are fairly similar and are compiled from the same verilog source code, but it requires a different FPGA firmware binary image to be bundled with emc, and a little bit of customized setup code added.
[18:44:02] <jepler> I am pretty sure that at least in the released versions there's not yet any 5i23 support
[18:45:57] <dushantch> jepler: dunno, I'm planing to buy it in next couple months, 5i20 or 5i23, but would like 5i23more as it's more advanced FPGA/design :)
[18:47:11] <dushantch> dunno as no devs have 5i23 there's no hope that there will be any support :)
[18:47:37] <jepler> well the solution's simple: you buy the 5i23, become a developer, and support it.
[18:47:38] <jepler> :-P
[18:49:50] <jepler> right now in the development version with the new hostmot2 driver, there's support for 5i20 (PCI), 4i65 (PC/104+), and 7i43 (parport/epp).
[18:50:01] <jepler> then there's the older and more time-tested driver which supports the 5i20 with fewer features
[18:50:08] <jepler> (no steppers being the big one)
[18:50:44] <jepler> if I was making a servo system I'd definitely choose 5i20 since then I am free to use the existing driver now and upgrade to the new driver later when it supports everything I need
[18:51:28] <dushantch> jepler: thanks for your advice
[18:51:30] <jepler> if I was building a stepper system, I'd beware that the new driver is still very much in the development stage, even though it's included in a stable release
[18:51:42] <dushantch> ac servo
[18:52:13] <jepler> analog out (velocity) from mesa? that'll work real nice
[18:53:53] <dushantch> yeah, +-10V
[18:54:20] <dushantch> and back 2500ppr differential encoder input
[18:54:23] <dushantch> 3 axis
[18:55:08] <dushantch> pneumatic tool changer in future maybe
[18:56:17] <dushantch> btw. I/O from mesa and from parallel port can be used simultaneously in one machine config? as I think I could be low on IO :)
[18:56:43] <jepler> dushantch: yes they can be.
[18:58:17] <dushantch> btw, do you think that screw terminals are worth extra $75? (that's for 3 7i3xT)
[18:59:34] <dushantch> ease of use is a + :)
[19:00:30] <jepler> otherwise what are you going to do -- chop up IDC cables?
[19:00:56] <dushantch> I'm not the first that thought of that? :)
[19:01:48] <archivist_ub> many a an IDC cable has been sacrificed
[19:02:05] <dushantch> dunno, as shipping will cost me 120$ I can throw some money on those too :)
[19:03:15] <alex_joni> dushantch: I regret getting the version without screw terminals
[19:03:23] <alex_joni> but I think they weren't available back then
[19:04:38] <dushantch> alex_joni: have you any experience with uranus.ro ?
[19:05:46] <alex_joni> nope
[19:05:52] <alex_joni> none at all
[19:06:25] <dushantch> alex_joni: they distribute some chinese servo drives, and I'm maybe buying 3 so I wanted to ask :)
[19:06:36] <dushantch> 1kW for 750$ :)
[19:06:48] <alex_joni> dushantch: sorry, no idea.. the webpage is .. "professional" :D
[19:06:54] <dushantch> atleast in china
[19:06:59] <dushantch> LOL
[19:11:32] <dushantch> thanks for advice
[19:12:52] <alex_joni> I don't trust those addresses either
[19:13:22] <alex_joni> proper companies don't have their address inside a block appartment
[19:14:12] <dushantch> thanks, haven't noticed that :)
[19:14:23] <alex_joni> it's not just one :)
[19:37:02] <dushantch> LOL it looks like shipping 10kg from china by regular mail by plane costs same as shipping .5kg from USA by DHL :)
[19:50:33] <alanb> Hi, can anyone tell me how axis communicates with emc?
[19:52:18] <jepler> alanb: the communication method for user interfaces with emc is called "nml". axis uses a python module called "emc" which wraps the relevant parts of nml.
[19:53:16] <jepler> the small python program 'mdi' (installed as /usr/bin/mdi or view it online: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/mdi.py?rev=1.4;content-type=text%2Fplain) shows the very basics of how to get emc's status and control emc from a Python program
[19:53:50] <jepler> 'pydoc emc' will show a summary of the commands you can send and the status information that you can read
[19:58:37] <alanb> Thanks, Ive looked at that, obviously main bit is emc module and the nml file, I want to know where to find the nml file.
[19:59:57] <alanb> I want to talk to emc from a c# app Ive written so Im interested in the python wrapper
[20:00:48] <tomp> maybe of interest (dont know of an 'nml file' ) NML neutral messaging language from NIST (tho emc is mainly C not C++) http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/NMLcpp.html
[20:04:56] <alanb> Sorry, new to all this should I have said nml configuration file. The one that lists buffers, processes and their connection
[20:07:52] <tomp> emc.nml server.nml client.nml ? stuf like ...# Buffers
[20:07:54] <tomp> # Name Type Host size neut? (old) buffer# MP ---
[20:07:54] <tomp> # Top-level buffers to EMC
[20:07:54] <tomp> B emcCommand SHMEM localhost 8192 0 0 1 16 1001 TCP=5005 xdr
[20:07:57] <tomp> ?
[20:08:16] <tomp> for that, best install a version and look into the source tree
[20:09:02] <tomp> you can get from cvs
[20:10:23] <alanb> I have downloaded from cvs and am slowly looking through. Havent built though, have working version from livecd and thought I should leave well alone
[20:11:30] <tomp> look into .../configs/common/emc.nml
[20:13:57] <jepler> you should be able to build a nml-using library with emc2-devel installed, but I do not know of anyone actively testing this at the moment
[20:14:06] <jepler> anyway, an nml file should be in the config directory
[20:14:23] <jepler> a proper program should get it from the inifile [EMC]NMLFILE or something like that
[20:14:34] <jepler> (there's also a python wrapper around emc's inifile parser in the emc module)
[20:15:15] <jepler> also of note is the fact that emc always changes into the config file's directory to run. that's why the nml file is always relative to the ini.
[20:19:23] <jepler> there's no reference to emc's nml interface besides the source itself. start somewhere (enough commands to do the C# equivalent of mdi.py would be one good target), then once you've proven the concept, add the rest of the stuff you need to have all the stuff needed by the user interface you envision.
[20:29:21] <alanb> Is there a dll I could import the nml stuff from? Is this relevent I have a mainly windows background and am just moving over to linux so its steep learning curves wherever I look
[20:30:19] <jepler> I am not familiar with what is required to use a C++ library from C#.
[20:31:43] <anonimasu> it's not too hard, but the complexity of the nml libraries alone makes it hard.
[20:32:00] <anonimasu> and c# wont wrap python stuff.
[20:32:09] <alex_joni> you might want to look at rcslib first
[20:32:18] <alex_joni> that still has some c++ for win in it..
[20:32:18] <anonimasu> rcslib?
[20:32:31] <anonimasu> C# dosent imply windows.
[20:32:39] <anonimasu> mono on linux works pretty much as good..
[20:32:40] <jepler> almost every action you take consists of creating a short-lived C++ object and passing it to the 'write' method of the command channel object
[20:32:48] <alex_joni> alanb said he wants to import a dll..
[20:33:09] <jepler> alex_joni: I suspect that's just because he's not familiar with the unix lingo
[20:33:13] <anonimasu> it dosent matter they work the same was as linux libraries..
[20:33:19] <alanb> I am using c# under mono on ubuntu 8.04
[20:33:35] <alex_joni> * alex_joni retracts what he said earlier :)
[20:34:50] <anonimasu> hm.. might be worthwhile to look at rcslib..
[20:35:00] <anonimasu> http://www.mono-project.com/Interop_with_Native_Libraries
[20:35:07] <anonimasu> alanb: unless you've already read it :)
[20:35:25] <alex_joni> anonimasu: for linux it'll be probably not much different from libnml
[20:35:41] <jepler> yeah, specifically this part: "Note that a C ABI is assumed. This makes it nearly impossible to directly invoke functions that are not C ABI compatible, such as C++ library functions that are not extern "C"."
[20:35:49] <anonimasu> what I stuck on was all the #defined stuff..
[20:36:01] <jepler> (there is no useful 'extern "C"' interface to nml; it's all C++)
[20:36:49] <jepler> sending an nml message consists of creating an instance of a C++ object, populating it, and then passing it to the method of another C++ object.
[20:37:02] <anonimasu> well, you can always write a c wrapper although that's a bit of a pain.
[20:37:20] <alex_joni> around each c++ object/method?
[20:37:23] <alex_joni> ugh
[20:37:36] <anonimasu> -_-
[20:38:51] <jepler> to create a C-linkage nml interface you could do worse than looking at halui -- there are a large number simple functions to send nml message, such as sendMachineOn(). http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc?rev=1.60
[20:39:17] <cradek> there are a half dozen copies of xemc like that - all different, I'm sure
[20:39:31] <cradek> I think someone tried to recombine all of them once - don't remember the details
[20:39:42] <jepler> .. a few dozen of those, plus one monster function to get status buffer information and put it in a dumb C structure, and you're "done"
[20:40:01] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is talking to someone off the mono project about interop
[20:40:38] <alex_joni> cradek: it's in usr_intf somewhere..
[20:41:01] <jepler> shcom.cc ?
[20:41:56] <jepler> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/shcom.cc?rev=1.8;content-type=text%2Fplain
[20:42:00] <anonimasu> hm.. forget about trying to interop c++ with c#.
[20:42:02] <anonimasu> for now..
[20:45:43] <anonimasu> there seems to be something called swig for generating c# wrappers for c++
[20:46:13] <alex_joni> jepler: yeah, that's it
[20:46:32] <jepler> shcom.cc isn't presently available as a library, but it sure could be in a future release..
[20:46:46] <jepler> (it's just statically linked into the programs that use it)
[20:46:52] <anonimasu> apparently you can just wrap the libary you want with SWIG..
[20:47:03] <anonimasu> and use it like you would use a managed library, without any changes
[20:47:04] <jepler> shcom covers sending commands but doesn't seem to cover accessing stat buffer information
[20:47:39] <anonimasu> http://www.freeswitch.org/ uses it for generating a few thousand lines of interop code
[20:47:53] <jepler> * jepler repeatedly types and then deletes snark about how C# should have thought about C++ interoperability at its inception
[20:48:10] <anonimasu> the issue with that is name mangling :/
[20:48:45] <jepler> oh, I fully know that it's not just a matter of snapping your fingers
[20:48:52] <jepler> it's a very hard issue
[20:49:20] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[20:49:27] <jepler> but the language itself should have a better answer than "sorry, it has to be a C ABI and POD structures"
[20:49:44] <jepler> it's nice if there are packages like swig to try to bridge the gap
[20:49:50] <anonimasu> yep
[20:49:56] <anonimasu> I'm going to try swig sometime this week
[20:50:05] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is a sucker for a heidenhain clone ui
[20:50:14] <jepler> (but I've personally never had good experience with swig (5+ years ago) and that's why the python wrapper for emc's nml interface is hand written)
[20:50:28] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:51:45] <anonimasu> I miss the ability to do programming at the control when using emc for drilling some holes and facing(without a text editor)
[20:52:13] <anonimasu> well, swig might work
[20:52:21] <anonimasu> but I dont hold any big hopes for it :)
[20:54:01] <alanb> Im sorry if this is stupid question (ive just looked at shcom.cc) Can I not just take that file + its headers and code files and compile into a library then wrap that a la interop
[20:54:41] <jepler> alanb: that's certainly someplace to start
[20:54:49] <jepler> .. and you have to start somewhere
[20:58:09] <jepler> bbl
[21:12:15] <alanb> Thanks for the info, one more simple question. Ive looked at emcmodule.cc but do not understand what PyObject_HEAD is doing in several structs. I assume its defined in Python.h but that header is not in the emc source (or a search couldnt find it)
[21:49:54] <dmess> Hi all
[21:55:24] <alanb> bye for now and thanks again for the info
[23:18:33] <ds3> @#%@$@$%#@$@$#@ steppers
[23:34:10] <dmess> now what??