#emc | Logs for 2008-09-23

[00:01:10] <dareposte> at $32.50 that board is a bargain though
[00:01:26] <Dmess> will it work??
[00:02:39] <dareposte> his card will work great
[00:02:44] <dareposte> yeah
[00:03:00] <Dmess> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=index+pulse i was gonna get 1 of these too in the same shipment
[00:03:00] <dareposte> that's impressive actually, looking at the blown up image he's done it with a couple of optos and a 74HC series logic chip
[00:03:12] <dareposte> a couple of power transistors to drive the relays it looks like
[00:04:02] <Dmess> talk to me fred.... i can only fly unpowered aircraft... im SIMPLE
[00:05:18] <dareposte> looks pretty basic, he's using an integrated circuit the LM2907 to convert frequency to voltage, so it should be rock solid.
[00:05:29] <dareposte> the relays are also very simple, not much room for error on that board
[00:07:33] <Dmess> wil it give me -10v to +10v for control though.. my follower mode seems to want that..
[00:08:05] <dareposte> Dmess: the index pulse will work and is very similar to what i've built for mine
[00:08:39] <Dmess> how many holes and pickups have you got??
[00:09:36] <dareposte> i have one piece of beer can taped to my spindle, giving one pulse per rev
[00:09:44] <Dmess> so price for pound thes board are woth the dollar??
[00:09:56] <dareposte> yeah i'm impressed he is able to bring htem to market for that price actually
[00:09:59] <Dmess> reallly??? LOL ; )
[00:10:17] <dareposte> i mean the components are all not so expensive but with custom boards and all i'd figure it would cost about that much to build one yourself
[00:10:21] <dareposte> and do comparable quality
[00:10:54] <Dmess> so he has to make 100 to do well...
[00:11:14] <dareposte> mine is build on a piece of drilled perfboard and came in around $5, but it doesn't have the nice logic gates or terminals that his does, its all hand soldered
[00:11:54] <dareposte> if you're not big into electronics or tinkering with them then i wouldn't hesitate to pick up either one of those boards, they look well enough designed and the cost isn't bad in my opinion
[00:12:07] <Dmess> thats what my crap would look like... another old high school science project
[00:12:37] <dareposte> yeah that's okay if it works though
[00:12:45] <dareposte> i'm sure his first circuits weren't so nicely laid out either
[00:13:31] <Dmess> wit water pouring over electric stuff... ... OK stand back folks i dont know when its gonna BLOW.. but it WILL
[00:13:36] <dareposte> http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM2907.pdf
[00:13:44] <dareposte> it looks like the LM2907 is only good for 0-10v
[00:13:57] <dareposte> actually 0-28v
[00:14:06] <dareposte> but still not negative voltages
[00:14:39] <jmkasunich> F/V converters are _very_ rarely bipolar
[00:14:47] <jmkasunich> when is the last time you saw a negative frequency?
[00:14:56] <Dmess> i may be able to work with that... just need the relays to toggle cw/ccw
[00:15:22] <dareposte> it looks like one version of the LM2907 will take +/-28v
[00:15:23] <jmkasunich> any particular reason you are using frequency?
[00:15:34] <Dmess> not the freq... the follower volage
[00:15:58] <jmkasunich> I haven't read the entire thread, but I thought you were trying to generate a +/-10V output from EMC
[00:16:00] <dareposte> jmkasunich: I think he is wanting -10v = max ccw, +10v = max cw
[00:16:07] <Dmess> what else could/should i use
[00:16:17] <jmkasunich> PWM or PDM
[00:16:36] <dareposte> vfd only takes +/-10v
[00:16:40] <Dmess> isnt that what im working towards??
[00:16:43] <jmkasunich> filter it and offset it
[00:17:00] <jmkasunich> your drive wants +/-10V
[00:17:08] <Dmess> yes
[00:17:09] <jmkasunich> the fact that it internally does PWM is totally irrelevant
[00:17:29] <Dmess> really
[00:17:52] <jmkasunich> if you make EMC spit out PDM, you can filter that to an analog voltage to make the +/-10V that your drive wants
[00:18:11] <jmkasunich> what the drive does with it, we don't care
[00:18:16] <Dmess> so its all about ref voltage.. some where on the VFD?
[00:18:27] <jmkasunich> what the drive does with it, we don't care
[00:18:48] <jmkasunich> the drive has its own microprocessor, and does all kinds of stuff internally to make the motor go
[00:19:08] <jmkasunich> it needs a speed command, and one way that command can get into the drive is +/-10V into an A/D converter
[00:19:10] <Dmess> where will thit 10v come from??? not the lpt port i hope
[00:19:39] <jmkasunich> you have to build or buy some electronics to convert parport into +/-10V
[00:19:42] <Dmess> we gonna bust into the D
[00:21:08] <jmkasunich> bbl
[00:21:12] <Dmess> i have othe options to drive it lemme get the manual
[00:23:37] <dareposte> jmkasunich: the thread started with him wondering if some electronics from CNC4PC would work for him, and in particular the LM2907 was used on the spindle tach circuit which we determined would probably not work. But now if he found a way to float the logic ground of the vfd around +12vdc then it would probably work if he had a 24vdc power source supplying the LM2907
[00:24:04] <jmkasunich> ick
[00:24:38] <jmkasunich> for many reasons
[00:25:15] <dareposte> yeah i'm just not a fan of the -10 to +10vdc drive method in general
[00:25:33] <dareposte> but given that's what he's got already then he may as well make use of it
[00:25:52] <jmkasunich> oh, I think it is +/-10V is the right way to convey a bipolar speed
[00:26:17] <jmkasunich> the idea of using a voltage _and_ a bit to convey a signed number is silly, just use a signed voltage
[00:26:17] <dareposte> i'd prefer a logic direction and 0-10v speed
[00:26:36] <jmkasunich> heh - everybody has a preference
[00:26:56] <jmkasunich> for something like spindles I suppose a direction bit isn't bad
[00:27:18] <jmkasunich> if you expect frequent direction reversals, and want them to be smooth and seamless, a signed signal is better
[00:27:26] <dareposte> actually if i had my druthers i'd prefer a logic direction bit and about 8 logic speed bits :)
[00:27:51] <dareposte> or just 10 logic speed bits...
[00:27:59] <jmkasunich> not a fan of analog eh?
[00:28:11] <dareposte> its just harder to interface to in the digital world
[00:28:26] <dareposte> as a communication protocol i'm not a fan of analog
[00:28:31] <dareposte> which is basically what that is
[00:28:55] <jmkasunich> its main advantage (as a protocol) is that it is rather universal
[00:29:16] <dareposte> yeah i agree with that
[00:29:33] <dareposte> except nobody has +/-10vdc power supplies on their equipment any more
[00:29:36] <jmkasunich> old analog servo drives - easy to hook EMC to
[00:29:36] <Dmess> that may be what we have here
[00:29:49] <dareposte> except Dmess of course
[00:29:51] <jmkasunich> new fancy drives with comm protocols - hard to hook EMC to
[00:29:58] <Dmess> but thru a relay to isolate it
[00:30:34] <Dmess> im on steppers
[00:30:42] <dareposte> i would prefer a simple rs-232 interface over 0-10v any day
[00:30:58] <jmkasunich> dareposte: what is simple about rs-232?
[00:31:07] <jmkasunich> every maker has a different protocol
[00:31:09] <dareposte> mostly the fact that i understand it :)
[00:31:17] <Dmess> all ttl?? right
[00:31:35] <Dmess> or mabe 3.3v
[00:31:56] <jmkasunich> how can you "understand" it? do you know the serial bytes needed to tell an Allen Bradley drive to go 1000 RPM? How about a Siemens drive? ABB? Danfoss? etc, etc
[00:31:58] <jmkasunich> no two are the same
[00:32:17] <dareposte> yah but you can just look them up in the manual and program it
[00:32:23] <jmkasunich> and in some cases the protocols are proprietary
[00:32:24] <Dmess> i'm gonna see if this puppy can be wired a different way
[00:32:24] <dareposte> no need to carry that knowledge around in your head
[00:32:36] <dareposte> now proprietary protocols are no good for sure
[00:33:29] <dareposte> but a 8-n-1 would be easy enough to write an interface module for that i think it would be an improvement over the 0-10v, especially since most people using EMC2 don't have custom hardware, but most computers have or can have a serial port added very cheaply
[00:33:50] <Dmess> some of us speak binary/ hex(nibble) hex ( byte).. its all the same
[00:33:54] <jmkasunich> kind of hard to do CSS on a lathe when you have to pick from one of 8 choices
[00:34:33] <Dmess> i agree... so would a 1 PULSE ENCODER BE BEST??
[00:34:34] <dareposte> well the only option right now is PDM or PWM output, which no drives understand
[00:34:44] <dareposte> well maybe some drives
[00:34:46] <dareposte> none i have seen though
[00:34:52] <jmkasunich> all drives understand +/-10V
[00:35:00] <jmkasunich> PWM/PDM is just a way to get +/-10V
[00:35:17] <jmkasunich> simple analog circuit - opamp, 4 resistors, a cap or three
[00:35:26] <Dmess> so its a half and half
[00:35:42] <dareposte> yeah i know if you know basic electronics then it's not hard to interface to, and i'm not complaining
[00:35:51] <dareposte> but machinists aren't always known for their electronics skills
[00:35:52] <jmkasunich> software -> PDM -> filter -> analog -> any drive ever made
[00:36:04] <Dmess> that me DARE
[00:36:21] <Dmess> you make me 1
[00:36:35] <Dmess> whats it gonna cost
[00:36:48] <dareposte> so the end user of emc2 is machinist of some type, who may or may not have the electronics knowledge to understand what an opamp is
[00:37:07] <jmkasunich> dareposte: I understand that problem
[00:37:14] <Dmess> SI... thats spanish
[00:37:54] <dareposte> jmkasunich: but most could figure out what brand of drive they have and click a selection checkbox indicating which protocol to use for that drive
[00:37:58] <dareposte> (most..)
[00:38:01] <dareposte> ;0
[00:38:24] <jmkasunich> IOW, you want someone to get the manuals for all those drives, and write the drivers for all those drives
[00:38:26] <jepler> cradek: there are other vertical traces that are the same width in eagle but wider on the board, though
[00:38:29] <dareposte> of course that means more work for the diligent programmers making emc2
[00:38:31] <Dmess> ive rewired complete machines from factory diagrams... but they just worked
[00:38:48] <jmkasunich> if you assume that kind of expertise, you could also say "someone" should design and sell PDM to analog converter/filter boards
[00:39:27] <dareposte> the difference being one requires no additional hardware, one required hardware
[00:39:38] <dareposte> one is open source and if my drive isn't supported i could write a protocol to support it
[00:39:48] <jmkasunich> could you?
[00:40:01] <jmkasunich> or would you need someone else to do it?
[00:40:11] <dareposte> i believe i could
[00:40:37] <Dmess> lets not scrap over this guys
[00:40:42] <dareposte> i don't think i'd have the skill to build a module from the ground up, but with the ropes in place to add another protocol I think would be doable
[00:40:54] <Dmess> i know i could NOT
[00:41:01] <jmkasunich> ground up would be easier IMO
[00:41:17] <dareposte> you are obviously much more well versed with the inner workings of emc2
[00:41:31] <jmkasunich> not easier for you perhaps, but the guy who has to design some extensible infrastructure that multiple protocols can plug into has a hard job
[00:41:36] <Dmess> we alll have that opinion once in a while
[00:42:03] <jmkasunich> anyway, we've digressed
[00:42:16] <jmkasunich> there are obviously as many ways of doing things as there are people
[00:42:20] <Dmess> ive threatend to kill em all and let GOD sort it out before...
[00:42:26] <dareposte> how hard would it be to let emc2 accept compiled object code with a "standard" interface, that feeds the rs232 port signals
[00:42:56] <dareposte> so emc2 says "go to 1000rpm" and the module says "hey siemens drive, using your proprietary protocol go to 1000 rpm"
[00:43:06] <jmkasunich> even tho I'm a programmer, I'm an electrical engineer first - I could build a PDM to analog converter from stuff I have laying around in less time than I could write a driver for a serial VFD protocol
[00:43:26] <jmkasunich> especially since I have ZERO info about the protocols used by any drive I could get my hands on
[00:43:53] <jmkasunich> the interface to EMC would be trivial - that kind of thing is exactly what HAL is for
[00:44:01] <dareposte> that's what i was thinking
[00:44:04] <dareposte> but not sure
[00:44:09] <jmkasunich> the interface to the drive is the hard part
[00:44:28] <dareposte> so if it would be easy there, writing a c driver to take EMC's input and translate it to RS232 output wouldn't be very difficult
[00:44:34] <jmkasunich> if you can accept having it in userspace, it is merely a matter of programming, if you have the protocol info
[00:44:40] <dareposte> yeah
[00:44:41] <Dmess> so should i NOT buy this BOARD??
[00:44:52] <dareposte> what drive are you using dmess
[00:44:54] <jmkasunich> if you want it realtime, it gets harder because you have to drive the serial port driectly
[00:45:05] <Dmess> A-B 160S
[00:45:18] <dareposte> i'm not sure a little latency would matter in this case, but what do you think jmkasunich
[00:45:24] <Dmess> NO rs232
[00:45:43] <jmkasunich> depends on what you are using it for - rigid tapping would require realtime IMO
[00:45:51] <jmkasunich> lathe CSS, maybe
[00:45:58] <jmkasunich> normal spindle stuff, user space would be fine
[00:46:19] <dareposte> which people going through the time to add encoders would probably want to use rigid and css
[00:46:48] <dareposte> there's not a rtai for serial port already?
[00:46:48] <jmkasunich> some would, some wouldn't
[00:46:53] <jmkasunich> dunno
[00:46:59] <Dmess> thetes a 4-20mA input.. @ 250 ohms... whats that good for??
[00:47:10] <jmkasunich> that is another form of analog input
[00:47:22] <dareposte> dmess: that sounds easier than the +/-10v
[00:47:23] <jmkasunich> Dmess: is there an online copy of the manual?
[00:48:03] <Dmess> yes..
[00:48:07] <jmkasunich> URL?
[00:52:55] <Dmess> ok now i cant find it... e mail??
[00:53:22] <jmkasunich> how big is it?
[00:54:06] <jmkasunich> I'm not surprized you can't find it online - I think the 160's are discontinued
[00:54:35] <jmkasunich> and AB is like most big companies - heaven forbid they give you docs for old stuff, you might keep using it instead of buying the new stuff
[00:54:41] <dareposte> does it take a serial input?
[00:55:05] <dareposte> i found the manual a week or so ago on rockwell automation's site, but it was for the wrong version, like a 160C
[00:55:10] <dareposte> instead of 160S
[00:55:15] <jmkasunich> I think he said it doesn't
[00:55:20] <dareposte> hmm
[00:55:26] <dareposte> i wonder if any drives take a serial protocol
[00:55:35] <dareposte> i know my hitachi X200 does but its rs485 if i remember right
[00:56:09] <dareposte> i might want to take a swing at trying some code for it if i can contribute to emc somehow
[00:56:18] <Dmess> the S is a single phase input drive... apperantly.. and i dunno where the kids moved it
[00:56:24] <jmkasunich> AB drives (newer ones) have a proprietary physical layer based on CAN, called DPI
[00:56:32] <jmkasunich> there is a DPI to serial converter
[00:56:47] <dareposte> what a pain
[00:56:51] <jmkasunich> but even the serial has a proprietary protocol, useable only with a windows based utility
[00:57:07] <jmkasunich> they also have about 20 different network interfaces
[00:57:29] <jmkasunich> but its all targeted at people (companies) with deep pockets
[00:57:38] <Dmess> please dont say this is 1 of them
[00:58:04] <jmkasunich> the 160 is a micro drive, I know nothing at all about those, other than they exist
[00:58:18] <jmkasunich> and there are several generations
[00:58:27] <jmkasunich> I bet your 160S is an older generation
[00:58:36] <jmkasunich> you didn't buy it new (and recently) did you?
[00:59:02] <Dmess> its a series B
[00:59:19] <jmkasunich> don't know what that means
[00:59:36] <Dmess> it tasted FREE form a friend bone yard.. and he was good with it
[00:59:46] <Dmess> from
[01:00:00] <jmkasunich> best kind
[01:00:08] <jmkasunich> but those are the ones that come with no manuals
[01:00:26] <Dmess> i just dont wanna SMOKE it for free either..
[01:00:45] <jmkasunich> heh, the entire 160 line is called "Legacy" on the AB website
[01:02:02] <Dmess> from the TOP end of the site??
[01:02:20] <jmkasunich> http://www.ab.com/drives/
[01:02:32] <jmkasunich> click on legacy drives in the sidebar
[01:02:51] <jmkasunich> if you click on component class or architecture class drives, you see their current models
[01:02:57] <dareposte> my hitachi only takes modbus, so i guess the "special hardware" thing is a given for most of these industrial protocols
[01:03:21] <jmkasunich> http://www.ab.com/support/abdrives/
[01:03:21] <dareposte> in that case i accept your point that 0-10v is a big improvement over serial protocols :)
[01:03:52] <dareposte> and would even prefer an op-amp to digital lines trying to bit-bang a modbus interface
[01:06:15] <dareposte> dmess: 4-20mA into 250 ohms is basically 0-5 volts
[01:06:35] <dareposte> really 1-5 volts i guess
[01:07:05] <jmkasunich> except that driving that 250 ohm load would require more than an op-amp
[01:07:12] <jmkasunich> (at least, more than a generic op-amp)
[01:07:28] <dareposte> i was thinking a transistor
[01:07:58] <jmkasunich> won't be very accurate
[01:08:11] <jmkasunich> and for newbies, transistor circuits are harder to design than op-amp ones
[01:10:23] <dareposte> LM358 says it can source 20ma, which would barely do it
[01:10:47] <jmkasunich> I bet the drive has 0-10, +/-10, and 4-20mA inputs
[01:11:03] <dareposte> i bet it does too
[01:11:14] <dareposte> but Dmess hasn't been able to find the part about 0-10v
[01:11:24] <jmkasunich> I also suspect that you can configure it so that with 0-10 in, 0V = full speed backwards, 5V = zero speed, and 10V = full speed forwards
[01:11:29] <jmkasunich> but only with the manual
[01:12:14] <dareposte> i think he has a printed manual
[01:12:16] <dareposte> just not an online one
[01:12:23] <dareposte> or he found it and printed part of it then lost the link
[01:12:25] <dareposte> or something
[01:12:33] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:12:41] <jmkasunich> when I find manuals online, I copy them to my disk
[01:12:54] <jmkasunich> manufacturers like to take away docs for older products
[01:13:08] <dareposte> which i never understood
[01:13:20] <jmkasunich> they want to sell new products
[01:13:30] <dareposte> do they think you're going to salvage it and use it in a new machine if you have the manual? and won't attempt to do so if you don't?
[01:14:16] <dareposte> no way am i going to drop $700 on a new AB drive, but i might pick up a junked one for $50 and tinker with it to get it working on my homebuilt machine
[01:14:20] <jmkasunich> no, they think it you can get the manuals, you are more likely to try to keep your old machine running with your old drive, instead of buying a new drive when the old one gets a little flakey
[01:14:23] <Dmess> that their thoughts
[01:14:41] <jmkasunich> dareposte: you just explained why AB doesn't want to do ANYTHING for you
[01:15:06] <dareposte> and also the reason i avoid them whenever possible, even at work :)
[01:15:27] <Dmess> i just need a little helpfrom a friend...
[01:15:38] <dareposte> in fact we forced a contract change specifically to exclude AB products in our shop equipment
[01:15:57] <jmkasunich> lol
[01:15:58] <Dmess> all siemens??
[01:16:03] <dareposte> didn't specify
[01:16:05] <dareposte> just "not ab
[01:16:08] <dareposte> "
[01:16:13] <Dmess> cool
[01:16:22] <dareposte> siemens, toyo, omron, all okay
[01:16:38] <jmkasunich> any particular reason for that?
[01:16:47] <dareposte> just don't like their prices, support, or products
[01:16:52] <dareposte> roughly in that order
[01:17:06] <Dmess> i hear ya
[01:17:37] <dareposte> but now if i got one free and had a manual to play with, and eventually discovered they weren't so bad, i might have a change of heart :)
[01:18:10] <dareposte> seems like they love the windows / vb / networked stuff way too much for my taste in industrial equipment
[01:18:40] <dareposte> and the closed standards and crappy support, combined with buggy software really kill me
[01:19:41] <dareposte> but thats just me... i know a lot of shops run on it and swear by it
[01:19:51] <dareposte> i think our paint shop does in fact
[01:20:50] <jmkasunich> what business are you in?
[01:20:59] <dareposte> auto manufacturing
[01:21:51] <dareposte> we have about 1700 plc's in my shop, and 4 of them are AB
[01:21:56] <jmkasunich> wow
[01:22:01] <dareposte> two are slated for replacement next year with a siemens
[01:22:17] <dareposte> and two we can't get rid of because the paint shop requires them for their lifter system to interface with ours
[01:22:28] <jmkasunich> I don't know much/anything about the PLCs
[01:22:51] <dareposte> basically a microchip with 24v optos on it, and a rack based communications protocol
[01:23:14] <dareposte> some proprietary programming language, usually support for ladder logic and canned special functions
[01:23:28] <jmkasunich> yeah, I know what PLCs are
[01:23:36] <jmkasunich> I mean I don't know much about the AB ones
[01:23:38] <dareposte> oh
[01:23:49] <jmkasunich> nor their low-end drives like the 160
[01:24:13] <dareposte> i'm sure their stuff is reasonable quality, but they are awfully proud of it for sure
[01:24:25] <jmkasunich> now if you are looking for 500-1000HP water cooled VFDs, I can set you up
[01:24:52] <dareposte> when we x'd out the AB plc option for upgrading our part delivery system the purchase parts cost dropped about 30%
[01:24:55] <jmkasunich> oh, yeah - very very proud
[01:25:41] <dareposte> the outside integrators love to use it because it is evidently very easy to learn and teach to new techs, so their training costs are lower
[01:26:56] <dareposte> there may be applications where the increased complexity and ease of use are important, but basically getting a bit input for "GO", three bits for speed, and a stop bit, we though it was a bit overkill
[01:27:32] <dareposte> to have a $4000 plc setup doing the math...
[01:28:51] <jmkasunich> for $4K, it better do calculus and differential equations, not just plain old math
[01:29:19] <jmkasunich> hobby shop people like me are very much not AB's intended market
[01:29:27] <jmkasunich> I would think that shops like yours are tho
[01:34:13] <dareposte> nobody in my shop, including me, is partial to them
[01:34:33] <dareposte> its hard to justify a $1500 plc vs a $700 plc that both do the same thing, no matter what shop you work in
[01:35:04] <dareposte> especially if the $1500 plc has worse support and buggier programming software, and all the accessories are proprietary and equally as expensive
[01:37:26] <dareposte> i hear their support system is better up north though, my shop is not in the normal michigan auto-belt so we get shafted on support a lot
[01:37:35] <dareposte> gtg
[02:21:35] <cradek> bah
[02:22:09] <cradek> I mean, good evening
[02:23:48] <jmkasunich> good evening to you too
[02:23:52] <jmkasunich> why so cheerful?
[02:24:05] <stustev> humbug
[02:24:09] <stustev> :)
[02:24:30] <cradek> the weather (?) took out my co-located connection
[02:24:43] <cradek> it's ten miles from here but the traceroute stops in st. louis
[02:25:15] <cradek> tonight I tried out the ebay indexable threading tool that I cut down to fit
[02:25:17] <jmkasunich> timeguy is a colo?
[02:25:19] <cradek> I made some nice threads
[02:25:23] <cradek> yes
[02:25:38] <stustev> sweet
[02:25:47] <cradek> I got the height right in only one try, which is just the right number of tries
[02:26:06] <stustev> you didn't just try - you did it on purpose
[02:26:09] <cradek> my HSS end mill didn't like cutting the shank...
[02:26:20] <stustev> good steel
[02:26:29] <jmkasunich> what, you don't like my method of mounting the tool on step blocks?
[02:26:32] <cradek> so I learned: when you think you might need to use carbide, use carbide :-)
[02:26:43] <cradek> jmkasunich: I'd need negative-height step blocks
[02:27:02] <stustev> something like negative frequency?
[02:27:08] <jmkasunich> oh, thats right, you are working with a toolpost, not a tabke
[02:27:10] <jmkasunich> table
[02:27:10] <cradek> the tool has to be 3/8 above the turret surface
[02:27:33] <stustev> have to run - bbl
[02:27:34] <cradek> I hit it within .002, or more likely, within the precision of my poor height gauge
[02:28:03] <cradek> I had a mutant turret mount that required .400 tall tools (???) so I fit it to that and I'll leave it in there.
[02:28:29] <cradek> holder plus ten inserts for $30 - wheeee
[02:28:36] <jmkasunich> nice
[02:28:46] <jmkasunich> are the inserts something you'll be able to get later?
[02:29:01] <cradek> yes they're the basic standing-up kind
[02:29:08] <cradek> 3/8 IC triangles
[02:29:13] <jmkasunich> cool
[02:29:42] <jmkasunich> I should be setting up my threading tool right now (on step blocks of course)
[02:29:46] <jmkasunich> except I'm procrastinating
[02:29:55] <jmkasunich> sometimes it seems like thats what I do best
[02:30:08] <cradek> it's a nice skill to have
[02:30:13] <Dmess> no your not your just waiting... ;)
[02:30:14] <cradek> what are you working on?
[02:30:19] <jmkasunich> spindle stiff
[02:30:21] <jmkasunich> stuff
[02:30:35] <jmkasunich> specifically, a sleeve, M6 thread on the inside, 1/2-20 on the outside
[02:30:46] <jmkasunich> adapts the drawbar to my homemade collet
[02:31:01] <cradek> neat
[02:31:03] <Dmess> sounds do-able
[02:31:10] <cradek> how deep is the inside thread?
[02:31:20] <cradek> 6 is not real big...
[02:31:23] <jmkasunich> about 3/4"
[02:31:26] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna tap it
[02:31:27] <cradek> ouch
[02:31:29] <cradek> ah
[02:31:40] <Dmess> no sweat
[02:31:51] <jmkasunich> it needs a recess about 1/4" deep, body diameter, then the threaded part
[02:32:03] <jmkasunich> so I'll drill tap-diameter, bore the recess, and then tap
[02:32:14] <cradek> doesn't matter if the threads are perfectly concentric?
[02:32:25] <jmkasunich> well, it would be better if they were
[02:32:35] <jmkasunich> but I'm not trying to threadcut that hole
[02:32:47] <Dmess> start the tap to make sure your square and all.. go 3-5 thds dp
[02:32:55] <jmkasunich> it would be nice if I could bore then tap, at least it would try to go square
[02:33:17] <jmkasunich> Dmess: I use a piloted tap wrench, tail end in the tailstock
[02:33:23] <jmkasunich> and tap by hand, in the lathe
[02:33:23] <cradek> you could easily bore it with carbide, no?
[02:33:37] <jmkasunich> I suppose
[02:33:48] <Dmess> i have 1 of them too..
[02:33:56] <jmkasunich> I have a 1/8" bar, 3/4" deep is 6:1
[02:34:16] <cradek> what material?
[02:34:24] <jmkasunich> O1 drill rod
[02:34:39] <cradek> should be ok I bet
[02:34:42] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:34:51] <jmkasunich> this part is gonna involve a lot of setup
[02:35:27] <jmkasunich> facing and turning (1 tool), threading (1 tool), boring (1 tool) parting off (1 tool) plus at least one drill size
[02:35:37] <jmkasunich> and the tapping
[02:35:56] <cradek> man I have all those mounted and measured on my turret...
[02:36:06] <jmkasunich> grrr
[02:36:08] <cradek> and a jacobs chuck...
[02:36:50] <jmkasunich> I have the threading tool mounted upside down behind the work
[02:37:04] <jmkasunich> gonna use the QC for the facing/turning tool and cutoff tool
[02:37:13] <jmkasunich> dunno how I want to mount the 1/8" boring bar
[02:37:26] <cradek> do you have a QC boring bar holder?
[02:37:39] <jmkasunich> yeah, with a 3/4" hole in it
[02:37:54] <cradek> ick, you get to make that bushing first then...
[02:38:15] <jmkasunich> well, I thought about using one of my 3/4" shank ER20 collet chucks
[02:38:17] <cradek> don't tell anyone - I made mine out of aluminum
[02:38:24] <cradek> ah, cool
[02:38:58] <jmkasunich> the thought of all this setup to make one part is depressing
[02:39:14] <jmkasunich> I suppose I could assume the design will be a success and run off a batch of them
[02:39:20] <cradek> if you make some of these to sell, will they have this part?
[02:39:27] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:39:46] <jmkasunich> only about 3/4" of 1/2" dia drill rod per part, not exactly a budget buster
[02:39:49] <cradek> it will be more depressing to have to make the rest later...
[02:40:16] <jmkasunich> the only thing is, this piece wants to be adjusted during assembly
[02:40:41] <jmkasunich> I was thinking of maybe using a 1/2-20 setscrew and drilling/boring/tapping it, so I'd have the hex key hole
[02:40:57] <jmkasunich> I think that size has a 1/4" hex, which is big enough to pass M6
[02:41:20] <jmkasunich> for the first one, I don't want to buy the setscrews
[02:41:41] <jmkasunich> plus, I'd need a fixture to hold them
[02:42:05] <jmkasunich> so I was gonna wing it on this one, and probably _not_ use the same design later
[02:55:45] <Dmess> do you have a bore on center tool holder??
[02:56:56] <Dmess> mine is 6/8" and i have made split sleeves for most/ too man sizes over the years
[02:58:36] <Dmess> your needing a dead stop.. and their are many ways to accomplishe the same end
[03:05:03] <jmkasunich> my main problem is that I'm lazy
[03:05:17] <jmkasunich> I don't want to set up all this stuff and write a big program to make one part
[03:05:36] <jmkasunich> so instead, I've procrastinated away the entire evening, and accomplished nothing
[03:05:43] <jmkasunich> what is wrong with this picture
[03:06:42] <jmkasunich> cool - I have a new plan
[03:06:52] <jmkasunich> gonna get some setscrews
[03:30:15] <Dmess> http://www.messier-dowty.com/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=17 theres what we do
[04:20:15] <JymmmEMC> JymmmEMC is now known as Jymmmmmmmmm
[04:20:43] <Jymmmmmmmmm> Jymmmmmmmmm is now known as JymmmEMC
[04:27:42] <LawrenceG> tfmacz, ur skype is offline.... callme
[04:29:46] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: We aint your answering service biotch! Get you own smoke signals liek the rest of us!
[04:30:14] <LawrenceG> charging smoke generator now..... Hi Jymm
[04:30:50] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: Heh, spekaing of smoke signals. Bought a fog machine for halloween.
[04:31:03] <JymmmEMC> Need to figure out how to emulate a timer relay
[04:31:17] <JymmmEMC> casue I'm being cheap
[04:31:22] <LawrenceG> cool.... classic ladder is your friend
[04:31:35] <JymmmEMC> well, lazy actually, not liek they sell them at walmart
[04:31:58] <LawrenceG> laser light show in the fog?
[04:32:47] <JymmmEMC> I'm going to use a cheap $10 motion light fixture to detect when someone walks up, then have it trigger the fog for 3 seconds or so. But I need a way to prevent it from retriggering wihtin a certain time
[04:34:11] <JymmmEMC> if_triggered{ on_3_seconds; Wait_500_seconds;}
[04:34:46] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: I have black lights for that =)
[04:35:46] <LawrenceG> cool.... we usually just black out the house and hope no one comes down the long driveway
[04:36:35] <JymmmEMC> I did one about 5 years ago.... took 6 months to prep, but was pretty awesome...
[04:37:28] <JymmmEMC> Even found glow-in-the-dark rope, so when the blk light hit it it just glowed like crazy. Have all these GITD incests too - big suckers.
[04:38:17] <JymmmEMC> Took redwood bark chunks and hit them with floresent orange spray paint, looked like glowing coals, then placed a caulderon on top with dry ice
[04:40:37] <JymmmEMC> Stretched black plastic sheet across driveway, then had fog come down like a waterfall
[04:45:39] <LawrenceG> http://imagebin.ca/view/Duqd8ZHK.html
[04:45:54] <JymmmEMC> lol
[04:46:35] <LawrenceG> not sure I could drive around in a car with those plates!
[04:51:16] <tomp2> haha old joke, name 3 streets in chicago that rhyme with vagina ( regina medina & lunt )
[04:51:47] <JymmmEMC> heh
[07:07:17] <Lerman__> Lerman__ is now known as Lerman
[08:05:13] <ssaneva> hi! =) good morning
[08:09:18] <archivist_ub> good morning
[10:02:18] <anonimasu_> hm..
[10:02:35] <anonimasu_> I've got a issue about fixturing a part
[10:02:47] <anonimasu_> http://imagebin.org/27093
[10:03:01] <anonimasu_> anyone got any ideas?
[10:38:54] <archivist_ub> how many to make
[10:58:04] <anonimasu_> 10..
[10:58:45] <anonimasu_> prototype stuff for a robot hand :)
[11:04:50] <dushantch> anonimasu_: where? I'm interested in that?
[11:05:24] <anonimasu_> hehe, a project a friend of mine has
[11:06:21] <dushantch> what stuff? grippers, toolholders or whole arm?
[11:06:56] <anonimasu_> I think whole cyborg -_-
[11:07:02] <dushantch> LOL
[11:07:03] <anonimasu_> well, whole arm/stuff
[11:07:22] <dushantch> those are nice things
[11:07:46] <anonimasu_> we are just working on a hand so far
[11:07:52] <dushantch> oscillations are a killer when you make robot arm, pretty hard math :)
[11:08:38] <dushantch> when you say hand you mean last 3 axes?
[11:08:47] <anonimasu_> I mean 5 fingers..
[11:08:53] <dushantch> haha
[11:09:02] <dushantch> :)
[11:09:05] <anonimasu_> that part you see is the first joint of a finger..
[11:09:25] <dushantch> hrmpf I joined after any links can you post again?
[11:09:43] <anonimasu_> http://imagebin.org/27093
[11:10:40] <dushantch> remote actuators or in joints?
[11:11:09] <anonimasu_> single motor for each finger and a tendon to make the fingers curl
[11:11:12] <dushantch> I once tried to remodel human hand like actuation with prestressed remote pulling actuators
[11:11:20] <dushantch> tendon=?
[11:11:39] <anonimasu_> well, I dont know of a better word for it.. string attached to motor base
[11:12:00] <dushantch> motor base? why for motor base?
[11:12:14] <anonimasu_> hand base..
[11:12:31] <anonimasu_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EajKanQa_0c&eurl=http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=hideki&emb=0&aq=f
[11:12:41] <dushantch> string attached to hand base?
[11:12:57] <anonimasu_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJFlX8A0NDg
[11:13:41] <dushantch> ahh, ok 1 motor per finger, I tried 1 motor per joint :)
[11:13:57] <dushantch> used carbon fishing lines
[11:14:03] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[11:14:04] <dushantch> :)
[11:14:10] <anonimasu_> I'll be back in 10..
[11:14:13] <anonimasu_> min's..
[11:14:15] <dushantch> ok
[11:36:25] <anonimasu_> iab
[11:36:47] <anonimasu_> dushantch: my problem is how to fixture that part :)
[11:37:12] <dushantch> :)
[11:37:20] <anonimasu_> dushantch: one motor per joint would be nice, but not doable with the kind of budget my friend has..
[11:37:24] <dushantch> that 2 mm thinner side is for wheel?
[11:37:34] <anonimasu_> no for the position sensor
[11:37:56] <dushantch> why not position on motor? plain RC servos?
[11:38:12] <anonimasu_> because the motors he's using arent rc servos
[11:38:20] <dushantch> :)
[11:38:27] <anonimasu_> solarobotics gm3
[11:38:37] <anonimasu_> I wouldnt use motors like this if I made the original design
[11:38:46] <anonimasu_> http://www.active-robots.com/products/motorsandwheels/solarbotics/gm7/gm7-750.jpg
[11:39:02] <dushantch> 2 pretensioned strings or 1 string and 1 ruber band?
[11:39:14] <dushantch> per finger?
[11:39:58] <anonimasu_> I think one string and one rubber band
[11:40:06] <anonimasu_> I'm not completely sure
[11:40:33] <dushantch> :) that's a faster solution, robust tho
[11:40:51] <anonimasu_> I think that mimicks a normal finger better
[11:41:28] <anonimasu_> if you push with the tip of your finger upward it'll flex like that too.. while you grab things inwards it ends up being stiff
[11:41:32] <anonimasu_> stiffer..
[11:41:49] <dushantch> well, no 2 motors and 2 strings mimicks it better per joint AFAIK
[11:42:16] <anonimasu_> well, I'd go with strings and motors if I designed it from the ground up but im not
[11:42:25] <dushantch> I had a roommate on medical college when I tried to make that
[11:42:46] <dushantch> Our hand are pretty nice engineering
[11:42:54] <dushantch> like everything evolution creates
[11:42:57] <anonimasu_> yeyp
[11:43:01] <anonimasu_> that's what I think too
[11:43:08] <anonimasu_> but modelling it with hardware is complex
[11:43:28] <dushantch> parallel machines
[11:43:37] <anonimasu_> you still need to fit motors
[11:43:41] <dushantch> and nature has better actuators and materials
[11:43:46] <anonimasu_> or muscles and position trandducers of someking
[11:43:47] <anonimasu_> kind
[11:44:00] <dushantch> artificial muscles are a nice thing
[11:44:05] <dushantch> pneumatic ones
[11:44:16] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ is waiting for a festo rep to show up at work
[11:44:18] <dushantch> pretty easy to make too
[11:44:24] <anonimasu_> for other projects :)
[11:44:37] <dushantch> anonimasu_: ahh that'll be expensive :)
[11:45:04] <dushantch> btw. too much nice things are made up with this wii sensor
[11:45:06] <anonimasu_> hoping to become a dealer or something..
[11:45:35] <anonimasu_> so the prices we get shouldnt be too bad
[11:45:42] <dushantch> :)
[11:46:03] <dushantch> we had a good pneu factory here but it's no more
[11:46:16] <dushantch> hydro and pneu servo drives
[11:46:21] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[11:46:27] <dushantch> boeing, tanks etc.
[11:46:30] <anonimasu_> http://www.mech.utah.edu/senior_design/06/uploads/RobotHandMechanics/FinalReport06.pdf
[11:46:44] <anonimasu_> yeah
[11:47:29] <dushantch> 4 fingers + thumb design?
[11:47:52] <dushantch> articulated thumb gives you so much more, but it's hard to make
[11:47:56] <anonimasu_> yeah
[11:47:58] <dushantch> and control
[11:48:08] <anonimasu_> it's essential for gripping I thik
[11:48:12] <dushantch> yes
[11:48:39] <dushantch> opposing thumbs are a major difference between humans and rest of animal world
[11:49:13] <anonimasu_> airmuscles are probably superior to motors for a hand..
[11:49:18] <anonimasu_> as you get compilance built into it..
[11:49:43] <dushantch> very hard to make them servo but if you use fuzzy logic, can be done
[11:49:48] <anonimasu_> whereas motors need to fake compilance..
[11:50:16] <dushantch> or make the structure compliant, like with elastic parts
[11:50:31] <anonimasu_> yeah exactly
[11:51:16] <anonimasu_> compilance is a big thing too when gripping
[11:51:28] <dushantch> I tried with carbon string and elastic rubber band, and the band was tied to string in that way if it stretches to one point string takes over
[11:51:52] <dushantch> like elastic then hard after some point
[11:53:14] <dushantch> fingers totaly made with artificial muscles would be nice
[11:53:36] <dushantch> if they could gain rigidity from muscles, like they do in nature
[11:53:54] <dushantch> I think that Honda humanoid robot does that
[11:54:02] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[11:54:05] <anonimasu_> that's cute
[11:54:13] <dushantch> he has pneu valves that are controlled with pwm
[11:54:43] <anonimasu_> you'd need some pretty precise control for that
[11:55:03] <dushantch> no you don't
[11:55:10] <anonimasu_> well, good valves.
[11:55:20] <dushantch> he uses pneumatic cylinders so it's flexible
[11:55:35] <anonimasu_> well, all valves are shit except the really expensive servo valves :p
[11:55:40] <anonimasu_> with feedback..
[11:55:45] <dushantch> ofcourse
[11:55:50] <anonimasu_> that was what I meant..
[11:56:19] <dushantch> I believe they didn't use closed loop, but just valves which linearily opened
[11:56:40] <dushantch> and had information on encoders on joints
[11:57:02] <dushantch> fuzzy controlled
[11:57:09] <anonimasu_> I wonder how they deal with stiction with that setup and get it working nicely
[11:57:25] <dushantch> like if too much, give less pwm et.
[11:57:43] <dushantch> stiction? stick-slip or friction?
[11:57:49] <anonimasu_> both of thoose
[11:58:31] <dushantch> that is a problem with pneumatic cylinders, but if they used pneum muscles?
[11:58:38] <anonimasu_> stick-slip is the major killer..
[11:58:49] <anonimasu_> yeah, that eleminates that problem
[11:58:51] <dushantch> but usually pneu muscles are nonlinear
[11:58:56] <anonimasu_> but the muscles are nonlinear :)
[11:59:07] <dushantch> fuzzycomes there
[11:59:10] <anonimasu_> but that's still less of a problem
[11:59:26] <dushantch> fuzzy and neural networks can work good with nonlinear
[11:59:44] <dushantch> some of it :)
[12:00:28] <dushantch> pretty good gyros are needed
[12:00:57] <dushantch> I remeber someone told me that we still can't make a gyro as good as nature :)
[12:01:17] <dushantch> sensor mean
[12:02:17] <anonimasu_> hehe
[12:03:02] <dushantch> btw why dont yo make some additional part on which to position and then cut it last?
[12:03:21] <dushantch> I'm talking about finger part btw :)
[12:03:24] <anonimasu_> hehe, yeah
[12:03:30] <anonimasu_> I'm still pondering how to do that :)
[12:04:26] <anonimasu_> im tkinking of machining a jaw for the vise to stick it into
[12:04:29] <dushantch> well in this view leave almost whole top bigger except that large curve http://imagebin.org/27093
[12:04:35] <archivist_ub> for me its 25mm square bar in a 4 jaw in a rotary axis
[12:04:59] <dushantch> iso view
[12:05:30] <dushantch> then just grind that part off last
[12:06:17] <archivist_ub> grind/part/slice with a thin blade in the mill
[12:09:20] <dushantch> like this:http://imagebin.org/27120
[12:09:32] <dushantch> done in kolourpaint :)
[12:11:19] <dushantch> I mean that red part is left after first pass, same part, my english is bad :)
[12:11:52] <anonimasu_> yeah that would work.-.
[12:12:15] <anonimasu_> and just flip it over and cut it away last
[12:12:21] <dushantch> yep
[12:12:27] <anonimasu_> great idea :)
[12:12:40] <dushantch> if you leave enough space don't even need to flip it
[12:12:52] <dushantch> we learned that in school :)
[12:13:01] <anonimasu_> enough space?
[12:13:01] <dushantch> additional bases :)
[12:13:16] <anonimasu_> I dont get what you mean
[12:13:44] <anonimasu_> well, if I had a cutoff cutter I could cut it off in the same setup
[12:13:46] <anonimasu_> but I dont..
[12:13:46] <dushantch> well so that your thin grinder for cutting can get between vice and the bottom of part
[12:13:53] <dushantch> that i meant
[12:14:00] <anonimasu_> saw cutter.. or whatever they are called
[12:14:10] <anonimasu_> yep
[12:14:17] <anonimasu_> slotting saw :)
[12:14:35] <dushantch> thanks now I have 3 more things to remember :)
[12:14:43] <anonimasu_> ?
[12:15:14] <anonimasu_> slotting/slitting saw ?
[12:15:15] <anonimasu_> :p
[12:15:24] <anonimasu_> http://images.google.se/images?hl=sv&q=slotting%20saw&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
[12:15:29] <dushantch> well my machining english is very bad, so I try to remember new words :)
[12:15:37] <anonimasu_> hehe I see
[12:15:43] <anonimasu_> I need to make a arbor for the ones I have :/
[12:16:11] <dushantch> I know what it is, but didn't knew the word :)
[12:16:52] <anonimasu_> no easy cookies for me :P
[12:17:39] <dushantch> well if you grind slow you could easily base on those parallel sides
[12:18:05] <dushantch> and they aren't needed for functioning of finger so you can damage them a little
[12:29:18] <anonimasu_> hehe..
[12:29:29] <anonimasu_> I dont want to damage them if I can avoid it..
[12:29:43] <anonimasu_> I'll make a arbor for the slitting saw this afternoon..
[12:29:57] <anonimasu_> the download im waiting for are still not ready
[12:34:10] <dushantch> aluminium?
[12:34:51] <dushantch> maybe some hard wood on sides of vice and high spindle, low feerdrate
[12:35:27] <dushantch> silumine would be better
[13:09:01] <archivist_ub> hmm epay entertainment item 270278869465
[13:12:38] <mshaver> cradek: You around?
[13:14:04] <mshaver> cradek: If you see this later: I think I remember you mentioning on the e-mail list that you had an HNC lathe at home with the 8 position air operated tool changer.
[13:15:16] <mshaver> I was wondering if you got it running (the tool turret) with HAL components, and if you did whether I could get a copy of your HAL file for that.
[13:15:46] <mshaver> e-mail me if you happen to see this! Thanks,
[13:15:50] <mshaver> Matt
[13:15:53] <alex_joni> hi mshaver
[13:16:00] <mshaver> hey alex!
[13:20:29] <alex_joni> hi matt, how goes it?
[13:20:48] <alex_joni> I think cradek ended up using some HAL/classicladder combination for his lathe
[13:27:39] <cradek> mshaver: I did use ladder, and it was simple. I described it in a post to emc-users
[13:28:08] <cradek> I think I posted a picture of the ladder too - let me see if I can find the message
[13:28:09] <mshaver> not bad, I'm working on a CNC lathe and thought I could use cradek's solution to the tool turret
[13:28:24] <mshaver> hey chris!
[13:28:35] <mshaver> I'll look as well!
[13:28:46] <cradek> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/9143
[13:28:49] <cradek> hi matt
[13:29:02] <cradek> the hnc turret is extremely simple to run with ladder. it's a great design.
[13:29:31] <cradek> darn, you won't be able to see the image
[13:30:13] <cradek> http://imagebin.org/27125
[13:30:16] <mshaver> found it! on Wednesday
[13:30:22] <mshaver> thanks!
[13:30:34] <mshaver> I just needed a jumpstart on this!
[13:31:26] <cradek> the turret is 8 positions. I wanted any tool number including 0 to give a position, so I used (PrepNumber & 7) == (TurretPosition-1) for the comparison in ladder
[13:31:49] <mshaver> I'm doing one that has a sensor per station (rather than the HNC's binary encoder), and it's electric rather than air.
[13:32:01] <cradek> otherwise if I did T10M6, it would lift and spin forever and ever, not finding it
[13:32:03] <mshaver> but I have an HNC at home too..
[13:32:22] <mshaver> good point, I didn't even get that far in thinking
[13:33:26] <mshaver> I'll repost what I end up with. These types of tool posts are common on chinese cnc lathes (I'm finding out)
[13:34:32] <mshaver> BTW, what actually causes a tool-prepare and tool-change?
[13:34:53] <cradek> Tx in gcode causes prep number to be set, M6 causes tool change
[13:35:09] <mshaver> good! that's what I thought!
[13:35:23] <cradek> when tool change is done, you tell emc on tool-changed (or however it's spelled) and it continues
[13:35:39] <mshaver> I just couldn't find it in the man page or book
[13:36:00] <mshaver> I'll try to get this going today!
[13:36:04] <mshaver> Thanks!
[13:36:18] <cradek> welcome - yell if you need help.
[14:00:14] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65058
[14:11:24] <cradek> I do not understand exactly what he's asking
[14:19:41] <skunkworks_> cradek: good morning
[14:22:20] <cradek> hi
[14:22:51] <jepler> skunkworks_: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/tqfpboard.jpg http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/tqfpboard-eagle.png http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/tqfpboard-composite.jpg
[14:27:23] <skunkworks_> jepler: Nice job.
[14:27:49] <skunkworks_> did you do both sides.
[14:28:00] <skunkworks_> question mark
[14:35:21] <cradek> http://imagebin.org/27128
[14:37:37] <jepler> skunkworks_: no, it's a single-sided board
[14:37:48] <jepler> skunkworks_: the few blue wires are jumpers
[14:37:56] <jepler> cradek: hahaha
[14:37:57] <skunkworks_> oh - I thought the blue was... ah
[14:40:05] <jepler> skunkworks_: I hope to get by without installing them or the 6-pin header -- that's only needed if I do something to require rewriting the bootloader that the avr comes preprogrammed with ..
[14:44:11] <skunkworks_> neat
[14:44:21] <skunkworks_> are you happy with it?
[14:45:38] <skunkworks_> cradek: your website is down
[14:52:18] <jepler> skunkworks_: well .. mostly
[14:52:30] <jepler> skunkworks_: cradek thinks that the bump on the lower left indicates lost steps
[14:53:07] <jepler> and if I'd done two trace isolation passes I might have less manual cleanup left to do
[14:53:31] <cradek> skunkworks_: I know...
[14:53:52] <jepler> and it remains to be seen whether I can successfully solder two dozen surface-mount parts
[14:54:07] <skunkworks_> heh - Could have the board moved?
[14:54:19] <skunkworks_> was that the last cut - the radius?
[14:54:37] <jepler> yes, the radius was the last cut
[14:54:49] <skunkworks_> it looks a little too wavy to be lost steps.. (to me.)
[14:55:37] <jepler> it would have to be a step lost while doing the top (moving to the right)
[14:55:54] <jepler> but the distance from the mounting hole to the board edge looks about right
[14:56:04] <jepler> so .. I don't really know
[14:56:21] <jepler> also you'll notice a rather narrow vertical trace on the top left .. I can't explain that either
[14:56:32] <jepler> same width in eagle as the other vertical traces immediately to the right
[14:57:34] <skunkworks_> I say - keep an eye on it. ;)
[15:01:41] <jepler> but my backlash sure seems to be down an order of magnitude -- the mounting holes and pin header holes are pretty round without any software backlash comp
[15:06:06] <cradek> maybe it did just move
[15:06:44] <skunkworks_> how where you holding it down? was the outside loose? could of it rattled around?
[15:07:26] <skunkworks_> huh - replies on the list are a bit slow.
[15:16:30] <skunkworks_> ok - really slow.
[15:29:46] <jepler> double-sided tape
[15:31:58] <jepler> it seems possible that cutting the outline can make it move around a little bit
[15:33:35] <jepler> I think I just need to come up with a vacuum pump and steal the vacuum table that cradek already made ..
[15:34:51] <cradek> I noticed I have approximately three things that I think are vacuum pumps, in the barn
[15:36:35] <skunkworks_> cool - how long since it was a 'barn'?
[15:37:15] <cradek> I don't think it has ever had animals in it. we're putting up a new building for the animals - not sure what this storage building will be called then.
[15:44:23] <skunkworks_> IRSeekBot3: hello
[15:44:34] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ thought I would get a responce.
[15:44:40] <skunkworks_> *he
[15:45:30] <fragalot> bastards,.. I can only find cheap PC's with parallel ports in the Us, and that's approx 160 on shipping alone everytime, not to mention customs raping me
[15:47:41] <skunkworks_> ebay? someone close to you?
[15:48:35] <fragalot> skunkworks_: that WAS on ebay, lol.
[15:49:33] <anonimasu> ?
[15:49:48] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[15:49:50] <fragalot> * fragalot sighs and keeps looking
[15:49:58] <anonimasu> fragalot: just buy a parport card..
[15:50:05] <anonimasu> or a pc with lots of pci slots..
[15:50:10] <anonimasu> :)
[15:51:49] <fragalot> anonimasu: :p my current PC's all are already full, or the port is blocked because of the 7950GX2 "craphics" card.
[15:52:30] <anonimasu> -_-
[15:52:44] <anonimasu> I've just played with turning some stuff
[15:52:58] <anonimasu> it's amazing that my inserts makes a rough cut at <1mm depths..
[15:53:12] <fragalot> haha
[15:53:14] <anonimasu> 1.2mm and it's all shiny and hyper smooth.
[15:53:27] <anonimasu> 0.12mm/rev feedrate as sandvik recomends..
[15:53:33] <archivist_ub> work hardening
[15:53:47] <anonimasu> nope
[15:53:54] <archivist_ub> some materials need a good bite
[15:53:56] <anonimasu> the material isnt stuff that hardens I think..
[15:53:57] <anonimasu> :p
[15:54:14] <archivist_ub> or sticky and gets trapped
[15:54:28] <anonimasu> hm..
[15:54:37] <anonimasu> it's cylinder piston rod..
[15:54:57] <archivist_ub> forged alloy?
[15:55:03] <anonimasu> huydralic cylinder piston rod..
[15:55:40] <archivist_ub> ah could be nasty stuff, hard
[15:55:50] <anonimasu> hm.. no it's usually soft..
[15:55:53] <anonimasu> and chromed on the surface
[15:56:31] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is amazed
[15:56:41] <anonimasu> I cut some stuff out of chrome moly before..
[15:56:53] <anonimasu> it cut better then this stuff..
[15:56:54] <anonimasu> :)
[15:57:13] <anonimasu> I wonder how wiper inserts would do..
[15:57:14] <archivist_ub> was it case hardened
[15:57:27] <anonimasu> how would I know?
[15:57:31] <anonimasu> :p
[15:57:40] <anonimasu> it might have been..
[15:57:50] <anonimasu> I found one hard spot inside of it..
[15:57:52] <anonimasu> at the outside..
[15:58:01] <anonimasu> O in the middle of a cut..
[15:58:26] <anonimasu> err a hard spot..
[15:58:51] <anonimasu> after 1" of cut the sound changed.. and then turned back to normal
[15:59:13] <anonimasu> it went away as I cut a bit more material away
[15:59:34] <archivist_emc> built up edge is another problem that could to that
[15:59:41] <anonimasu> but it was not
[15:59:45] <anonimasu> it made nice spirals
[15:59:48] <anonimasu> :)
[16:00:16] <anonimasu> I could see it was harder at that spot..
[16:00:19] <archivist_emc> bue still can make nice swarf
[16:00:25] <anonimasu> the surface texture was different on that spot..
[16:00:37] <anonimasu> like ( ) on a round rod..
[16:00:43] <anonimasu> on one side..
[16:00:57] <anonimasu> a built up edge would change it all way round.. :)
[16:01:28] <archivist_emc> Im i the middle of milling a gear crossing (hole)
[16:01:37] <anonimasu> cool :)
[16:01:43] <anonimasu> I really wish I could make gears
[16:01:52] <anonimasu> even crappy ones
[16:02:28] <archivist_emc> have cnc, make gears :)
[16:02:33] <anonimasu> haha, I have a cnc
[16:02:37] <anonimasu> but no rotary table for it
[16:02:49] <anonimasu> and no cutters
[16:03:00] <anonimasu> that's the big issue
[16:03:50] <archivist_emc> cutters cost!, but got lucky on Friday picked up a 1mod hob in carbide for £5
[16:04:07] <anonimasu> well, I cant find a place to buy them
[16:04:08] <anonimasu> :/
[16:05:07] <anonimasu> and I suck too much to grind anthing myself
[16:05:36] <archivist_emc> cheapest new http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Gear-Hobs
[16:05:51] <anonimasu> oh.. that's decent prices
[16:06:14] <archivist_emc> I have a 1mod from there
[16:06:28] <anonimasu> I usually use dormer tooling and they are good but expensive
[16:06:28] <archivist_emc> will get the rest when I can afford
[16:08:04] <anonimasu> do they have non fine pitched hobs?
[16:08:19] <archivist_emc> dont think so
[16:08:35] <anonimasu> hmm ok
[16:09:20] <archivist_emc> really need 5 axis for hobbing though (or a hobbing machine)
[16:09:23] <anonimasu> that's too bad
[16:10:24] <archivist_emc> or form cutters and a rotary on ordinary 3 axis
[16:11:00] <anonimasu> hehe
[16:11:06] <anonimasu> either way is pretty bad
[16:11:13] <anonimasu> or tiny cutters and 4 axes..
[16:11:14] <anonimasu> :p
[16:11:47] <anonimasu> form cutters are a nice idea
[16:12:47] <stuste1> jepler: if you are using double sided sticky tape did you use a clamp to press the board to the table. Put a force spreader over the board and put a little (not a lot) pressure to force the tape to contact with more surface. You can machine aluminum plate this way. You just need to make sure the tape is stuck better than your hand or arm can do.
[16:13:08] <stuste1> You can remove the clamp to machine the part.
[16:14:29] <archivist_emc> anonimasu: trouble with form cutters is limited number of teeth ranges they can cut
[16:14:47] <stuste1> cradek: the 'barn' sounds like a good machine shop - I haven't seen it so my opinion may be flawed
[16:14:49] <jepler> stuste1: that's a good idea, i'll try it next time
[16:15:14] <stuste1> jepler; the removal becomes more of in issue but it should work well
[16:15:22] <cradek> stuste1: no heat, no cooling, no insulation, no floor...
[16:15:25] <anonimasu> archivist: yep
[16:15:36] <stuste1> right - flawed
[16:17:30] <anonimasu> archivist: it's better then a gear cutting machine..
[16:30:55] <stuste1> jepler: I updated my 6.06 desktop to 8.04 and emc would not run. I cvs updated my install and recompiled for sim and rip. It aborted asking me for rt stuff. I used 'make -B' and it completed and runs fine.
[16:31:13] <fragalot> ok,.. This is weird. even virtualbox won't run the emc2 livecd
[16:31:25] <fragalot> * fragalot tries to re-download the image
[16:31:55] <fragalot> hardy, or dapper ? :p
[16:32:39] <jepler> stuste1: well that's going to be a makefile bug that is difficult to test and fix :-P
[16:32:58] <stuste1> make -B fixed it
[16:33:58] <stuste1> or masked it - either way I am running emc sim
[16:34:22] <stuste1> it is always nice when you get what you want :)
[16:39:09] <fragalot> k, virtualbox doesn't fully boot the puppy linux (2006) version of EMC2.. lol :(
[16:42:35] <anonimasu> :/
[16:47:44] <Lerman> fragalot: Have you considered just getting a new motherboard? Shipping would be pretty cheap for that.
[16:48:41] <Lerman> US postal service shipping with a flat rate box is around $30 to Europe. Where are you?
[17:56:36] <fragalot> Lerman: belgium
[17:57:16] <fragalot> Lerman: i could get a new mobo alone, but then i'd still need the PSU, CD bay,.. Ok, i could perhaps netboot it,.. but i want it to be pretty much standalone,.. :p
[17:57:47] <fragalot> I did plan on using an intel Atom board, and end up at approx 160 euro for a complete system, but i've heard that the realtime kernel doesn't like it that much
[17:58:15] <anonimasu> :)
[17:58:23] <fragalot> Lerman: also, last time i imported some hardware, i got pwnt. badly. (customs)
[17:59:00] <anonimasu> :/
[18:00:13] <fragalot> like, paying 650 euro on a system that they broke by dropping it, and then them not replying on all my messages regarding the insurance
[18:00:27] <anonimasu> :/
[18:00:28] <lerman_> We tend to forget how spoined we are in the US. I probably have ten machines in the house that I could use with EMC.
[18:00:33] <fragalot> mind you, I had to pay that 650 just to be able to GET the insurance (what they said on the phone...)
[18:00:43] <fragalot> "without you paying this bill, we can't pay you incase we broke it"
[18:00:43] <anonimasu> :/
[18:00:50] <fragalot> so.. I did... it's over 700euro in damage
[18:01:22] <fragalot> 2 brand new matched intel Xeon cpu's, the front-panel PCB, deformed chassis,.. harddisk..
[18:01:40] <fragalot> did you guys ever see the HP server that kernel.org got? .. It looked like that
[18:02:12] <anonimasu> no
[18:03:00] <fragalot> http://userweb.kernel.org/~warthog9/damaged_server/
[18:03:15] <anonimasu> wow
[18:03:24] <anonimasu> did they get it fixed?
[18:03:45] <fragalot> yes, they did
[18:03:49] <fragalot> it ran w/o issues for them
[18:03:59] <anonimasu> ah..
[18:04:08] <anonimasu> that's kind of odd--
[18:04:13] <fragalot> hehe
[18:04:22] <anonimasu> the stuff we get shipped here are very very carefully handled for most stuff
[18:04:53] <fragalot> the heatsinks on mine shifted, pulling the pins out of the CPU's, deformed chassis,.. hell, the blow was so hard the PCB in the front dug into the steel chassis..
[18:05:04] <anonimasu> wtf...
[18:05:05] <anonimasu> :p
[18:05:09] <anonimasu> they ran over it..
[18:05:15] <anonimasu> with a truck..
[18:05:21] <fragalot> screws holding that PCB down were suddently .-'
[18:06:24] <fragalot> anonimasu: no,.. they didn't
[18:06:32] <fragalot> anonimasu: I think they accidentally dropped a forklift ontop of it
[18:06:36] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:06:47] <anonimasu> sounds right
[18:07:26] <fragalot> anonimasu: when it was balancing on one corner.
[18:07:26] <fragalot> :p
[18:09:39] <ruffy91> hi
[18:09:45] <jepler> hello ruffy91
[18:10:17] <ruffy91> anyone knows a easy way to get the acceleration of every axis?
[18:11:21] <jepler> do you mean determine the value that is in the .ini file? or do you mean find the appropriate value to put in the .ini file?
[18:11:51] <fragalot> the most fun one is "instant",.. but i don't guarantee that you'll continue to like it long.
[18:12:41] <jepler> you can determine the value that is in the inifile using the 'inivar' program:
[18:12:43] <jepler> inivar -sec AXIS_0 -var MAX_ACCELERATION -ini axis.ini
[18:12:54] <jepler> ^^ an example, to type at the shell prompt in the directory with axis.ini
[18:13:10] <ruffy91> i want to know the acceleration so i can switch on a pin on the parallel port while an axis is accelerated
[18:13:32] <jepler> ok, I understand now
[18:14:05] <cradek> for stepper drivers? by the time you the acceleration is happening, isn't it too late?
[18:14:54] <ruffy91> i want to enable the boost input of my NC-Step 3D-Step card
[18:15:09] <skunkworks_> ah - someone had done this
[18:15:19] <skunkworks_> hmm - where to look..
[18:15:41] <ruffy91> yes, found it, but it enables the boost while the speed is between to fixed values
[18:15:46] <jepler> you can a pair of ddt to compute the current acceleration of each axis, and wcomp to get a value which is TRUE when the acceleration is less than a threshhold value and FALSE when it is greater.
[18:16:39] <jepler> you can look at the sample file sim/core_sim.hal to see how velocity and acceleration are computed for each axis -- the signals are Xvel, Xacc, and so on
[18:17:26] <jepler> I would use a window comparator ("wcomp") instead of a strict check against 0 because I suspect that you will see small (maybe less than 1e-3) acceleration values reported during the cruise phase of a move
[18:18:07] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49049&highlight=eagle
[18:18:53] <jepler> in the sample file sim/check_constraints.hal you can see how window comparators are used; in this case they are used to test whether the velocity and acceleration ever exceed the range as a way of testing the trajectory planner)
[18:19:23] <skunkworks_> here is a visual of the hal config.. http://home.arcor.de/froderick/hal-write/martin-config.png (another way of doing it)
[18:20:03] <fragalot> skunkworks_: how'd you do that?
[18:20:34] <skunkworks_> I didn't - someone worked on a way to generate hal files from eagle schematics
[18:20:47] <anonimasu> haha
[18:20:51] <skunkworks_> http://martinschoeneck.de/hal-write
[18:20:51] <anonimasu> cute
[18:20:51] <ruffy91> is this valid? linksp ddt.4.out => wcomp.0.in
[18:21:15] <jepler> (personally I would choose not to use these current reducing/increasing modes -- I'd just run the motors all the time within manufacturer specifications)
[18:21:29] <skunkworks_> I am sure there a about 100 ways of doing it..
[18:22:13] <jepler> (you can easily write gcode which is continually accelerating -- it's just an arc. so you can't actually boost beyond the manufacturer's specification during times of acceleration with the belief that it's only for a short time)
[18:22:19] <fragalot> hmm,.. if there were a way to make a PCI card to run the L297-298 drives from,.. that isn't higher than 1cm above the PCI slot,.. my problems are solved. ^-^ but thats unlikely
[18:22:45] <fragalot> bleh,.. I need to find somebody running the same kernel as EMC2 runs, that has an intel atom board & see if it works ok
[18:23:13] <ruffy91> i've got an intel atom board ^
[18:23:20] <fragalot> ruffy91: does it work ?
[18:23:28] <fragalot> somebody here told me it didn't yesterday
[18:23:40] <ruffy91> with 8.04 only if you deactivate onboard network
[18:23:54] <fragalot> tried 6
[18:23:56] <fragalot> ?
[18:24:09] <ruffy91> tyes, i'm on 6.06 now
[18:24:14] <fragalot> Awesome.
[18:24:21] <ruffy91> but acpi doesn't work
[18:24:28] <fragalot> Meh.
[18:24:48] <jepler> on the -generic kernel? acpi is disabled in -rtai kernels.
[18:25:06] <ruffy91> rtai ^
[18:25:18] <fragalot> jepler: with -rtai, I assume you mean NO rtai,.. but thats just me?
[18:26:29] <jepler> fragalot: no, the suffix of the kernel version
[18:26:36] <jepler> such as the 2.6.24-16-rtai
[18:27:06] <fragalot> ok
[18:27:43] <jepler> I can understand that it causes confusion
[18:28:13] <fragalot> Yeah.. :p could 've been an option passed to the kernel on boot ;)
[18:31:36] <jepler> ruffy91: "linksp ddt.4.out => wcomp.0.in" would be a little unusual, because the first argument of linksp is a signal name, but the signal name has the form usually reserved for a pin name -- usually signals don't have dots in the name, and pins do
[18:31:57] <jepler> ruffy91: but you can create pins like that, particularly with the 'linkpp' command
[18:32:10] <ruffy91> I wrote the output in a variable
[18:32:16] <jepler> personally, I recommend writing new hal configuration using the 'net' command exclusively, and not using newsig, linkpp, linksp, or linkps
[18:32:34] <jepler> I would probably write something like: "net Xacc ddt.4.out => wcomp.0.in"
[18:33:08] <jepler> (in english: "create signal Xacc if necessary, and then use that signal to connect ddt.4.out to wcomp.0.in")
[18:33:48] <ruffy91> it works now, i'll write it with net, got enough time ^
[18:34:00] <fragalot> Theres nothing on tv :'(
[18:34:30] <archivist_ub> all the action is on #emc watch that instead
[18:37:56] <jepler> ruffy91: you're welcome
[18:39:26] <archivist_ub> interesting gantry form http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=f1nYOIHNIHk&NR=1
[18:42:22] <ruffy91> how to reduce resonances in half-stepping ? ^^
[18:43:06] <fragalot> higher voltage? (guessing.. no idea what i'm talking about ;))
[18:43:35] <fragalot> archivist_ub: fancy piece of machinery
[18:43:49] <fragalot> * fragalot is used to machines where the PART moves, not the tool
[18:44:03] <archivist_ub> crap photography though
[18:44:10] <fragalot> and horrid sound
[18:44:56] <archivist_ub> I have no sound here Im thinking of doing a trunion like http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=KZXDzPxf4lM&NR=1
[18:45:17] <fragalot> archivist_ub: the sound is like . pink noise
[18:45:47] <ruffy91> I 'll get more torque when I have more voltage, but i've got also resonances in lower speed
[18:46:24] <fragalot> archivist_ub: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ4BzDDFlqk&feature=related the movements this thing makes are quite interresting :p
[18:47:16] <archivist_ub> heh nice
[18:47:54] <fragalot> might 've said this before, but it amazes me how those machines swing heavy weights arround at those speeds and still retain the accuracy
[18:48:11] <archivist_ub> I basicly want trunion to save A axis setup time
[18:48:56] <archivist_ub> servos and amps
[18:49:38] <fragalot> archivist_ub: yeah, but tossing that arround that fast is impressive, nomatter how you look at it :p
[18:50:17] <archivist_ub> youtube cnc videos are addictive
[18:50:23] <fragalot> they are :'(
[18:50:54] <fragalot> so is rapid prototyping, imho
[18:52:19] <ruffy91> what about hydraulic?
[18:52:22] <fragalot> http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=QsmiIeAkE-o&feature=related lol. "hey guys, lets make a V8 engine from a solid block."
[18:55:54] <colinb_> actually the vid makes those engine blocks look a lot bigger than they are
[18:56:24] <colinb_> saw em running the same demo at mach 08
[18:56:26] <fragalot> colinb_: who cares about the size of it, :p
[18:56:34] <colinb_> engine block was only about 15" long
[18:56:37] <ruffy91> my father has a Maho 1600C at work, 1600x800x800mm, max. weight on table 3-tons, vmax 6m/min, but i'dont know the acceleration, but it looks impressive :-)
[18:56:55] <fragalot> ruffy91: Aye =D
[19:00:29] <colinb_> fair enough
[19:00:45] <colinb_> currently rebuilding my 5axis to AC motors
[19:00:54] <colinb_> should speed it up a bit
[19:01:13] <fragalot> *cough* .. .whatcha doin' with the old? :p
[19:01:15] <fragalot> ^-^
[19:01:54] <colinb_> probably lob em into a lighter weight machine
[19:02:02] <colinb_> or one of the knee mills
[19:03:09] <ruffy91> i just thougt about which servos to choose for a Oerlikon DM-4 xD
[19:03:43] <colinb_> oh ?
[19:04:09] <ruffy91> that would be funny
[19:04:32] <fragalot> ='( I can't find any 200step steppers on ebay... man belgian ebay is lame.. *goes international*
[19:05:05] <colinb_> my lathe has pretty huge DC servos in
[19:05:41] <colinb_> once you get to that point its the drives that get costly
[19:06:06] <fragalot> colinb_: yeah, i work with the bigger stuff every weekend or so,.. I just want something small at home
[19:06:15] <fragalot> basically just for PCB & engraving work..
[19:06:39] <colinb_> ah thats cool
[19:07:02] <colinb_> iv been working on moulds for a nice little granite machine
[19:07:11] <fragalot> :) the controller PCB's should be etched by thursday, and if all goes well, that should be the last PCB's ever i'll let somebody else etch.
[19:07:15] <fragalot> xD
[19:08:03] <colinb_> only gonna be about 30" by 15" granite slab
[19:08:18] <fragalot> this is tempting..
[19:08:35] <fragalot> 79euro for 3 1.8° 2A steppers bipolar
[19:08:39] <colinb_> will make for a really nice sturdy machine
[19:08:44] <colinb_> why steppers ?
[19:09:02] <fragalot> colinb_: because the controllers I made are for steppers?
[19:09:05] <fragalot> i'm making*
[19:09:12] <colinb_> that would make sense i guess
[19:09:14] <colinb_> lol
[19:09:30] <fragalot> that, and i didn't know that servo's could do more than 1 rev.. I always thought that the motors on CNC machines were just named wrong :p
[19:09:53] <colinb_> ah
[19:10:10] <colinb_> iv just picked up some of those little mitsubishi servo's
[19:10:17] <colinb_> ac ones
[19:10:23] <fragalot> Those are quite nice to work on
[19:11:39] <colinb_> not had time to have a play yet
[19:12:11] <fragalot> =)
[19:17:15] <ruffy91> whats the price you would pay for a 3Nm ac-servo?
[19:18:28] <fragalot> I have no need for 3Nm, so not much
[19:18:29] <fragalot> :p
[19:18:40] <colinb_> as little as i can
[19:18:50] <fragalot> besides, i'm a student with hardly any income, so every penny i can save,.. I save.
[19:18:55] <fragalot> (and then spend on this project)
[19:19:59] <ruffy91> haven't got any to sell, want to know whats the max i should pay
[19:21:15] <ruffy91> they're damn expensive in switzerland -.-
[19:21:26] <fragalot> they're bloody expensive everywheere
[19:21:49] <fragalot> servomotor 0,35 Nm ( 500 PPR ) + servodriver 60 Volt 6 Ampere == 190 euro here (low cost)
[19:22:09] <fragalot> doesn't even mention which type it is
[19:22:11] <fragalot> :p
[19:22:34] <ruffy91> someone on ebay wants about 550$ for one used 2,4Nm servo
[19:23:32] <alex_joni> anonimasu: around?
[19:23:36] <alex_joni> alibre 11 is out :)
[19:26:29] <fragalot> http://astrojbm.free.fr/bricolages/picastro/Mecanique/ITC_CNC_1_FR.pdf this is a stepper I have laying about now... Reckon it's usable for a small engraver?
[19:27:33] <fragalot> wow, the #EMC logs are publicly accessible online? I thought that was against freenode policy?
[19:28:21] <archivist_ub> not if we think otherwise
[19:29:01] <fragalot> k
[19:29:05] <fragalot> just curious :p
[19:30:10] <fragalot> mm, .44Nm torque for my stepper if i'm right,.. Reckon that 'l move nicely @ halfstep on a 3mm/rev ACME thread? :p
[19:32:09] <fragalot> meh, i guess i'll find out when I try..
[19:32:10] <fragalot> :p
[19:32:11] <fragalot> gnite!
[21:31:11] <Dmess> hi all