#emc | Logs for 2008-09-11

[02:27:46] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[02:27:51] <cradek> preload by ball size only
[02:27:56] <cradek> unfortunately
[02:28:09] <skunkworks> so - was it not getting lube?
[02:28:27] <cradek> it was watery and rusty in there
[02:28:42] <cradek> it is not part of the one-shot. there is a resorvoir for it.
[02:29:50] <jmkasunich> you are back in lincoln?
[02:29:58] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure you're supposed to keep the water and rust out of the ballnuts
[02:30:01] <cradek> yes, got back very late last night
[02:30:04] <SWPadnos> but I could be wrong
[02:30:10] <cradek> SWPadnos: maybe use oil instead?
[02:30:17] <SWPadnos> that could work
[02:30:24] <SWPadnos> or even way lube (like the BP does)
[02:31:41] <skunkworks> oil is good
[02:32:41] <cradek> yes when I get it fixed up, I might try oil instead of rust
[02:32:59] <SWPadnos> let us know how that works out :)
[02:37:00] <skunkworks> I bet it works great :)
[02:40:04] <SkinnYPup> Ideas anyone for what I should use to pull down my vacuum chuck for pcb's? I'm considering a bosch alternator from an older mercedes or vw diesel with the vac pump built on .
[03:45:40] <dareposte> SkinnYPup
[03:45:46] <dareposte> : try googling the "cheap little sucker"
[03:46:10] <dareposte> some guy figured out how to build one on the cheap if you are into that type of thing
[03:46:24] <dareposte> actually here's a link
[03:46:26] <dareposte> http://www.berkut13.com/sucker.htm
[03:46:54] <dareposte> if i remember he used an old fridge compressor or something, seemed to work out well
[03:47:51] <SkinnYPup> Hey thats not a bad idea either, I've got a friend that does hvac service come to think of it
[03:48:21] <dareposte> all the better then :)
[03:49:02] <SkinnYPup> Just looking for something with enough flow it won't loose effectiveness on drillthrough
[03:50:34] <dareposte> i've heard double sided carpet tape works well...
[03:50:59] <dareposte> if you have a big drill file it might be a bit tough to get enough vacuum out of something sort of small like that
[03:54:21] <SkinnYPup> I'm sure an automotive a/c pump would pull enough
[04:00:09] <dareposte> i've never played with one before but i'd think they are probably pretty powerful
[04:10:22] <dareposte> I just got the x-axis on my cnc conversion installed
[04:10:33] <dareposte> man what a pain in the back side that was
[04:11:10] <dareposte> i'd rather program the thing than spin hand wheels any day...
[04:11:19] <dareposte> err.. my cnc lathe that was
[04:11:25] <dareposte> "toy"
[04:26:54] <dareposte> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA40DA_cxrg
[04:27:14] <dareposte> can emc control my electric drill?
[04:58:39] <Vahue> drills are interesting because the trigger is analog
[04:58:50] <Vahue> ie depends how far you pull it
[05:06:03] <dareposte> probably would need an encoder
[05:06:51] <Vahue> possibly also hardwire the speed and just use a relay to turn it on or off
[05:07:44] <dareposte> not a bad idea
[05:07:49] <dareposte> two relays i guess for reversing
[06:19:26] <micges> good morning
[06:24:17] <alex_joni> hello
[08:14:15] <pjm> good morning
[09:40:51] <scutsxg> hi,is there anyone familar with coolcnc,emc2 based on puppy?
[09:58:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders why people can't wait a couple minutes/hourse before running away
[10:14:36] <Vahue> regarding threaded rods, what does 1/4-20 mean
[10:19:49] <alex_joni> I suspect 1/4" is the diameter, and 20 TPI
[10:19:53] <alex_joni> but don't bet on it
[10:21:24] <Vahue> thats what i was thinking
[10:23:42] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Thread_Standard
[10:24:53] <Vahue> thanks
[13:22:24] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:22:24] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-09-11.txt
[13:25:44] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[13:26:11] <skunkworks> dareposte: nice videos! :)
[15:55:10] <MASEngr> Good morning, everyone.
[15:55:35] <MASEngr> SWP, that window comparator suggestion from yesterday worked.
[15:55:56] <MASEngr> There's one minor snag - there's no direction.
[15:56:16] <MASEngr> SO I've put in an offset and another window comparator to look for direction.
[15:56:37] <MASEngr> The problem I'm having now is that offset doesn't seem to take a float as an input.
[15:57:02] <MASEngr> net Xupconv2 offset.0.in => conv-s32-float.1.out will throw a "type mismatch" error.
[15:57:44] <SWPadnos> do you have a CVS checkout?
[15:59:22] <MASEngr> Nope.
[15:59:40] <SWPadnos> ok, then I won't post my changes to wcomp for you :)
[15:59:48] <MASEngr> Heh.
[15:59:58] <SWPadnos> you can use a comparator and a window comparator though, plus a few AND/OR gates
[16:00:19] <SWPadnos> I'm assuming you get positive numbers for one direction and negative for the other
[16:00:46] <SWPadnos> set up a comparator with a constant 0 as one input, the joypad output as the other
[16:00:54] <MASEngr> Actually, I think I've found the problem. I was using the wrong link name and linked to the input instead of the output.
[16:01:01] <SWPadnos> oh, oops
[16:01:01] <jepler> SWPadnos: MASEngr could still install your modified window comparator with 'sudo comp --install wcomp.comp' (though it would be overwritten when doing an upgrade)
[16:01:10] <SWPadnos> that's true
[16:01:14] <jepler> (you could rename it and change the name in the component declaration to avoid that problem)
[16:01:40] <SWPadnos> I didn't check it in because I get an error compiling it, which I think is related to my having python2.5 on Hardy, but I haven't debugged it yet
[16:01:51] <MASEngr> Well, now my problem is that I don't know how to add the offset update function into the thread.
[16:02:00] <SWPadnos> man halcmd ;)
[16:02:12] <SWPadnos> (addf <funcname> <threadname>)
[16:02:21] <MASEngr> Oh, that easy?
[16:02:37] <SWPadnos> yeah, in a HAL file. the hard part is making sure it ends up in the order you want
[16:03:29] <MASEngr> The order I want?
[16:05:32] <SWPadnos> yes - you want to be sure that the functions execute in the correct order
[16:06:29] <MASEngr> Ah, because otherwise I'd get whacky data. If, for example, I update the position then do the offset, I'm updating the position based on the non-offset data.
[16:07:08] <SWPadnos> right
[16:07:32] <SWPadnos> you can tell halcmd where to put the function - N slots from the start or end of the thread
[16:07:50] <SWPadnos> but that can be dangerous - later changes can screw up the resulting function order
[16:12:15] <MASEngr> It seems to be all right now, and I'll keep an eye on where the functions sit in the .hal file.
[16:12:25] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:13:14] <MASEngr> So now I've got a joypad that gives free-wheeling manual control, then gives a short one-shot jog when you hold in a button.
[16:14:12] <SWPadnos> so you hold a separate button to turn on "one-shot mode", then when you push the control far enough it does the equivalent of a key jog?
[16:14:23] <SWPadnos> in whatever direction you've pushed the stick
[16:14:25] <MASEngr> Yes.
[16:14:29] <SWPadnos> cool
[16:14:35] <MASEngr> Yeah, it's neat.
[16:14:36] <SWPadnos> remember to post the config on the wiki ;)
[16:14:57] <MASEngr> Sure, where's the link for that?
[16:16:26] <MASEngr> NM, I see where I can put it. I'll get the rest of the code done and cleaned up first.
[16:26:03] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/H2OTable2.jpg
[18:28:10] <xyzee> Hi. I need to include backlash compensation on one axis.. do I simply add BACKLASH=0.??? to the axis in question in the ini file? There is nothing there at the moment
[18:30:08] <cradek> yes
[18:59:01] <alex_joni> xyzee: except if you generated the config with stepconf
[18:59:11] <alex_joni> in that case it's probably best to rerun stepconf and set backlash
[19:02:30] <MASEngr> I've got another question - how can I get spindle control with the joypad if another signal is already connected to motion.spindle-forward?
[19:03:20] <MASEngr> Depending on the lines I'm using, I get "cannot add OUT pin" or "already has output or I/O pins" as the error.
[19:03:34] <alex_joni> MASEngr: you don't want to control the spindle directly with the joypad
[19:03:44] <cradek> you would want to use halui for that
[19:03:45] <alex_joni> you want to control emc2 with the joypad and let emc2 control the spindle
[19:04:08] <alex_joni> as chris said, you connect the joypad to halui (spindle control) and let halui talk to emc2 which controls the spindle
[19:07:16] <tomp> I needed a slide with 5mm screw and a 5:1 pulley ratio.
[19:07:16] <tomp> The vendor could only supply 0.200" pitch screw.
[19:07:16] <tomp> I solved it thru the 'electronic gearing' of the amplifier.
[19:07:16] <tomp> The encoder was 2500ppr, which yields 10000 counts after quadrature.
[19:07:17] <tomp> The 'electronic gearing' uses 2 integers, ( numerator,denominator ).
[19:07:19] <tomp> I used 1016 and 10000 resp.
[19:07:21] <tomp> So, the amplifier outputs 10000*(1016/10000) = 1016 increments per motor rev.
[19:07:23] <tomp> The timing pulleys reduce 5 motor revs to 1 axis rev (12:60),
[19:07:25] <tomp> so there's 5*1016 = 5080 incs per axis rev. which is 0.001mm per increment
[19:07:27] <tomp> even tho the screw is inch :) sweet.
[19:08:32] <SWPadnos> the numbers 254 / 2500 might be more obvious ;)
[19:09:06] <tomp> if they were more obvious, then why didnt i see them before ?? :)
[19:09:16] <SWPadnos> no comment
[19:09:30] <tomp> yep, the above /4 , you're right
[19:09:38] <MASEngr> Awesome. I've got spindle control. Thank you for the tip.
[19:10:33] <alex_joni> MASEngr: cool
[19:13:25] <MASEngr> I've now got a ridiculously full-featured joypad setup.
[19:15:49] <SWPadnos> ridikkulus
[19:16:01] <alex_joni> boom de ah da
[19:17:01] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at_f98qOGY0
[19:17:28] <MASEngr> It's got all the normal functionality, plus a one-shot jog when you hold in one of the buttons.
[19:19:56] <MASEngr> Thanks for the help. As always, I appreciate it.
[19:20:06] <SWPadnos> enjoy
[19:20:15] <SWPadnos> and remember to put the new config files on the wiki ;)
[19:21:14] <MASEngr> I've emailed it to my computer just for that purpose, SWP. ;)
[19:21:27] <SWPadnos> excellent
[19:32:00] <SWPadnos> heh: http://www.allvoices.com/image/18335193
[19:39:18] <skunkworks> where was the link to the cern black hole?
[19:44:17] <robh> Hi, installed unbuntu followed by EMC 2.2.6 but when i start EMC i get a error like , insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/rtai_hal.ko': -1 File exists
[19:44:54] <robh> if i try dif configs it comes up with other modules for realtime, sometimes it will load up ok, any ideas?
[19:45:49] <skunkworks> robh: make sure on bootup you select the realtime kernel
[19:45:57] <skunkworks> The order probably go screwed up.
[19:46:14] <robh> yea i did that, and reordered it so will always boot into rt kernel
[19:46:30] <skunkworks> ah cool
[19:46:51] <robh> system monitor shows, kernel, 2.6.24-16-rtai
[19:47:44] <robh> above error is loading sim axis config
[19:48:06] <xyzee> Can anyone tell me how to set BACKLASH in stepconf. I can't see it anywhere
[19:51:37] <SWPadnos> robh, dmesg will show you better information
[19:52:02] <Jymm> SWPadnos: Got it?
[19:52:08] <SWPadnos> xyzee, I think the released version of stepconf doesn't have support for backlash settings
[19:52:14] <SWPadnos> Jymm, yes, thanks
[19:52:32] <Jymm> SWPadnos: ok cool. Sorry it took so long... best of intensions and all that
[19:52:52] <SWPadnos> no problemo. I'm a procrastinator from way back :)
[19:53:21] <Jymm> SWPadnos: I'm usually not, just reality was whining (again)
[19:53:30] <SWPadnos> reality is such a whiner
[19:53:42] <Jymm> SWPadnos: so are my users *sigh*
[19:54:55] <Jymm> SWPadnos: and they're good at it too.
[19:55:04] <Jymm> very good
[19:55:07] <SWPadnos> yeah, I hear they have special training for that
[19:55:30] <Jymm> thos bastards!
[19:55:32] <Jymm> those
[19:56:06] <xyzee> SWPadnos, So all I do is add BACKLASh into the AXIS 0 part of the ini. file. Does it matter where?
[19:56:35] <SWPadnos> xyzee, well, it depends ... :)
[19:57:07] <SWPadnos> the normal way of dealing with backlash is to put the compensation amount into the ini file, then set it in HAL with some lines in a hal file
[19:57:51] <SWPadnos> stepconf manages the ini file though, so if you add the backlash numbers to the ini, you won't be able to use stepconf for that config any more (or you'll lose your backlash settings, I'm not sure)
[19:58:22] <SWPadnos> stepconf also doesn't generate the necessary statements for the hal file, though you can add those to the custom.hal file it creates for you
[19:58:54] <SWPadnos> do you want to continue to be able to make changes with stepconf?
[20:00:07] <xyzee> SWPadnos, I think maybe stepconf has outlived its usefulness.
[20:00:39] <SWPadnos> ok, in that case add the backlash numbers to the ini in the AXIS_N sections
[20:01:23] <xyzee> excellent, thanks I'll try that tomorrow.
[20:02:20] <SWPadnos> hey, I'm wrong - wohoo!
[20:02:23] <skunkworks> I thought backlash was not a hal thing..
[20:02:55] <SWPadnos> it looks like backlash isn't used in HAL
[20:02:57] <SWPadnos> right!
[20:03:11] <SWPadnos> so all you should need to do is add the backlash settings in the ini file
[20:04:53] <xyzee> Okay, thats cool, thanks again
[20:05:05] <SWPadnos> sure
[20:12:04] <robh> SWPadnos, cant see anything in dmesg
[20:12:36] <SWPadnos> hmmm. there's got to be something there
[20:12:41] <SWPadnos> unless you rebooted
[20:13:14] <robh> aaah, last boot shows alot of Unknown symbol related to hostmot2,hal_lib etc
[20:16:01] <robh> its odd, as if find a config that will load up EMC interface, then go back to say sim, axis one it will then also work and run with no errors mighty odd
[20:20:46] <robh> Starting EMC2 server program: emcsvr Loading Real Time OS, RTAPI, and HAL_LIB modules Realtime system did not load Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[20:23:30] <alex_joni> robh: can you look in your files for probe_parport ?
[20:23:48] <alex_joni> that won't be part of sim..
[20:24:31] <alex_joni> so sim configs will probably run without issues
[20:25:11] <alex_joni> robh: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Parallel_port_no_longer_works_in_EMC_2_0_1_or_later_hal_parport_Device_or_resource_busy
[20:25:25] <alex_joni> that might be something that will fix this
[20:29:55] <robh> i dont seem to be getting any parport errors loged or showing, ill show u full log of what emc displays
[20:30:08] <skunkworks> put it in pastebin.ca
[20:30:19] <alex_joni> skunkworks: quick and good call :D
[20:30:36] <skunkworks> heh
[20:31:09] <robh> neat site, http://pastebin.ca/1200393
[20:34:50] <robh> now all sim configs and others will load fine, but if i reboot, or close reaload them, they will go back to the above error as tho something is stoping it loading the Realtime or something
[20:37:40] <alex_joni> robh: why does realtime load at boot time?
[20:37:53] <alex_joni> did you add /etc/realtime to one of the rc.d levels?
[20:37:59] <robh> nope
[20:38:08] <alex_joni> can you make sure?
[20:38:18] <robh> just ran install script to install rt and emc
[20:38:19] <alex_joni> look around second 24 or so
[20:41:12] <alex_joni> robh: you have an 5i20 board?
[20:41:21] <robh> yes, two
[20:42:13] <alex_joni> for some reason it looks like a 5i20 config is tried to be run on startup
[20:42:23] <alex_joni> and there's some odd IRQ sharing issues
[20:42:30] <alex_joni> maybe you can try swapping some PCI slots
[20:43:14] <robh> only realtime i find is in init.d
[20:43:24] <alex_joni> no symlinks to it?
[20:43:56] <alex_joni> I'd check the default runlevel (it's in /etc/inittab)
[20:44:04] <alex_joni> then look in that /etc/rcx.d
[20:49:41] <robh> debult runlevel is 2, no realtime or likes defind in rc2 as i can see
[20:50:10] <alex_joni> something is causing emc to start
[20:50:23] <alex_joni> can you pastebin a ls from rc2.d ?
[20:50:33] <alex_joni> ls -al maybe
[20:51:54] <robh> http://pastebin.ca/1200426
[20:52:28] <alex_joni> nvidia-kernel?
[20:52:32] <alex_joni> eww :P
[20:54:24] <robh> heres my init.d folder for ref, http://pastebin.ca/1200428
[20:54:55] <robh> yea, i told unbuntu to not install nvidia drivers, but its alittle insistant that it will try it :s
[20:55:22] <alex_joni> robh: I wonder what that iTCO_wdt is
[20:55:54] <jepler> + * intel TCO Watchdog Driver (Used in i82801 and i6300ESB chipsets)
[20:56:10] <alex_joni> jepler: could it trigger IPIPE?
[20:57:07] <jepler> beats me, all I know I learned from googling it just now
[20:57:24] <robh> haha good old google
[20:57:30] <alex_joni> robh: can you reboot and do a lsmod after the fresh boot?
[20:57:53] <robh> ye np,
[20:58:22] <robh> bk in sec thn
[20:58:31] <alex_joni> a whole lot of IRQ 14 messages in that dmesg
[20:59:31] <robh> 14 is 4th pci it says, which i am not using
[20:59:45] <alex_joni> might be something onboard connected to it
[20:59:49] <alex_joni> a lspci -vv should tell
[21:00:01] <robh> will reboor 1sec
[21:03:57] <robh> one lsmod, http://pastebin.ca/1200441
[21:04:33] <alex_joni> emc2 is there
[21:04:49] <alex_joni> can you try ps aux | grep emc ?
[21:06:00] <robh> http://pastebin.ca/1200444
[21:07:12] <alex_joni> having the user called emc isn't exactly helping with the grep :P
[21:07:39] <alex_joni> you sure you didn't start emc2 by yourself?
[21:08:06] <jepler> #
[21:08:08] <jepler> emc 4937 0.0 0.0 4360 1632 ? S 22:04 0:00 /bin/bash /usr/bin/emc
[21:08:10] <alex_joni> check on another workspace
[21:08:17] <robh> update of emc error, http://pastebin.ca/1200445 irq9 refers to first 5i20 pci3, irq11 other card, pci5
[21:08:21] <alex_joni> jepler: yeah, and it's just before firefox
[21:09:01] <robh> at time of that i had emc open on its error screen, but lsmod was on a clean boot no other things open etc
[21:09:23] <alex_joni> I asked for a lsmod just after boot
[21:09:28] <alex_joni> without emc2 running
[21:09:58] <robh> i did the lsmod without it running or anythik
[21:11:27] <alex_joni> and after that you ran it?
[21:11:41] <alex_joni> try this: clean reboot
[21:11:45] <alex_joni> do a lsmod
[21:11:45] <robh> correct,
[21:11:53] <alex_joni> lsmod | grep rtai
[21:12:04] <alex_joni> if anything comes up, do : sudo /etc/init.d/realtime stop
[21:12:07] <alex_joni> then try to run emc2
[21:12:57] <robh> ok
[21:13:29] <robh> ill put irc onto dif pc too, be 20x easyer
[21:16:45] <robh> here we go , http://pastebin.ca/1200455
[21:17:08] <alex_joni> ok, rtai is running
[21:17:18] <alex_joni> don't try to run emc2 now
[21:17:25] <alex_joni> try sudo /etc/init.d/realtime stop
[21:18:33] <robh> gives error saying in use, http://pastebin.ca/1200457
[21:18:57] <alex_joni> try halcmd stop
[21:19:01] <alex_joni> halcmd unloadrt all
[21:19:15] <alex_joni> then sudo /etc/init.d/realtime stop
[21:20:08] <robh> just leavs, error: module rtai_math does not exsist in /proc/modules
[21:21:01] <alex_joni> are the modules still loaded?
[21:22:38] <robh> they have all been unmounted now, no rtai compoents left
[21:23:08] <alex_joni> ok, perfect
[21:23:14] <alex_joni> now try to run emc2
[21:23:36] <robh> loads ok, no errors
[21:27:57] <alex_joni> robh: a temp fix is to remove a symlink : 'sudo rm /lib/modules/2.6.24-16-rtai/rtai'
[21:28:19] <alex_joni> it seems that that causes the 5i20 to participate in the hotplug phase
[21:31:18] <robh> ok iv removed the symlink now
[21:31:27] <alex_joni> reboot, and emc2 should run
[21:31:40] <robh> so that would of casued the rtai parts to load also on boot?
[21:31:58] <alex_joni> yeah, they get pulled in as dependencies of the 5i20 driver
[21:32:23] <robh> ri, i see
[21:32:33] <lerneaen_hydra> is hackaday down for anyone else?
[21:32:35] <alex_joni> but not all of them :)
[21:32:41] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: might be hacked
[21:32:43] <lerneaen_hydra> it's been down for me for a couple days now
[21:33:00] <alex_joni> Oops! This link appears broken.
[21:33:01] <alex_joni> DNS error - cannot find server.
[21:33:10] <lerneaen_hydra> or rather, my dns servers can't resolve the domain
[21:33:11] <robh> yep, loads fine
[21:33:17] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, not you either?
[21:33:24] <lerneaen_hydra> robh; which IP do you get?
[21:33:34] <lerneaen_hydra> *which IP does it resolve to
[21:33:51] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: dig is your mate
[21:34:02] <lerneaen_hydra> dig?
[21:34:12] <robh> IP resolve to what name?
[21:34:21] <lerneaen_hydra> to hackaday
[21:34:39] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: I bet he talked about emc2 loading fine
[21:34:49] <robh> haha
[21:34:54] <alex_joni> after rebooting the machine :)
[21:35:02] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, right :p
[21:35:04] <alex_joni> robh: we'll fix this very soon :)
[21:35:06] <lerneaen_hydra> whoops
[21:35:28] <robh> thx for taking the time alex to resolve the problem and all
[21:35:30] <alex_joni> robh: anything else wrong with it?
[21:35:51] <alex_joni> wasn't me fixing it.. I was just asking the questions :)
[21:36:14] <robh> no yet, just gota edit up a ini and hal file now , or fireup the hotmot testpanel so can play with the mesa cards :)
[21:37:25] <robh> see the hostmot testpanel is outdated on wiki as still has linkpp in hal file should be net or linksp right?
[21:38:42] <robh> here is what im talking of, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/pyiotest.hal am i right in thinking output section is missing in it?
[21:41:14] <jepler> robh: yeah it looks like it's missing -- I would expect it to be by the comment "# link digital outputs to buttons" but it ain't there
[21:42:38] <robh> ill take time to get it working and upto date then ill update wiki for others to
[21:42:49] <jepler> cool, and thanks
[21:45:35] <alex_joni> cradek: I think I got an explanation why it can't work
[21:45:45] <jepler> bbl guys
[21:46:01] <alex_joni> but I guess you're more thrilled about hearing a solution.. and I'm still thinking about that
[22:21:30] <issy> ***
[22:30:10] <Dmess> hi all
[22:51:52] <stustev> issy: have you resolved license issues for your gui?