#emc | Logs for 2008-09-07

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[00:22:50] <jmkasunich> somebody tell me where I left my Torx wrenches please
[00:23:47] <toastydeath> in the bathroom
[00:28:34] <jmkasunich> must admit thats one place I haven
[00:28:38] <jmkasunich> haven't looked
[00:30:21] <jmkasunich> found em
[00:30:34] <jmkasunich> still in the box-o-tools I took to the CNC workshop
[01:03:24] <jmkasunich> dang - my fastest spindle speed is just a wee bit higher than EMC is capable of counting the encoder
[01:09:26] <tomp> jmkasunich: how fast is that? ( where's the bleedin' edge )?
[01:09:40] <jmkasunich> I don't know what it is in KHz
[01:10:02] <jmkasunich> on my lathe, it can count to about 1800 RPM before it starts losing counts
[01:10:18] <tomp> how many counts per rev?
[01:10:33] <jmkasunich> I have a pyvcp speed meter in my config - you start the machine, and the bar goes up, then suddenly drops
[01:10:39] <tomp> heh
[01:10:44] <jmkasunich> don't recall how many counts/rev
[01:11:22] <jmkasunich> conveniently, the encoder is driven off of the "stud gear" which isn't direct drive to the spindle - I can shift a lever to reduce it by a factor of two
[01:11:43] <jmkasunich> thats what I'm going to do for this project, just have to remember that when I set my G95 feed/rev
[01:11:56] <jmkasunich> if I program 0.002, I'll get 0.001
[01:13:15] <tomp> hmmm gear sensitive G95
[01:14:05] <jmkasunich> when I get my round-tuit, I'm going to convert over to using a 5i20 card
[01:14:21] <jmkasunich> and I'll belt the encoder directly from the spindle, with no gearing
[01:14:41] <jmkasunich> ideally I'll be able to remove the gearing from the headstock to cut down on noise and vibration
[03:50:47] <ds3> punches make sheet metal working SO much nicer
[03:59:24] <jmkasunich> I had to "customize" the insert cutting edge, but I was able to bore out a spindle
[03:59:48] <cradek> total success?
[04:00:11] <jmkasunich> so far I've just bored it cylindrical - there is still a bit of tapering to do, but I'll code that tomorrow
[04:00:23] <jmkasunich> the bulk of the material has been removed
[04:00:26] <cradek> col
[04:00:29] <cradek> cool even
[04:00:44] <jmkasunich> I had horrible chatter problems when I started - howling would be a better description
[04:00:49] <cradek> don't forget to comp when doing the taper
[04:01:01] <jmkasunich> won't need to
[04:01:15] <cradek> sharp point?
[04:01:23] <jmkasunich> the customization of the insert involved completely removing the tip radius and making it as sharp as possible
[04:01:36] <cradek> how the heck did you do that?
[04:01:41] <jmkasunich> diamond hone
[04:02:14] <cradek> how's the finish?
[04:02:20] <jmkasunich> shiny
[04:02:26] <cradek> neat
[04:02:31] <jmkasunich> I still plan to grind for final finish
[04:02:45] <jmkasunich> these hones are cheap and handy: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=MJ399-6742
[04:03:28] <jmkasunich> I wound up way below the recommended SFPM for the insert too - they recommend 600-800, I had to go down to 300ish to stop the chatter
[04:03:36] <jmkasunich> 0.005 DOC, 0.001 fpr
[04:04:46] <jmkasunich> I only killed 2 insert points before I got it right
[04:04:57] <jmkasunich> the third did most of the work and still seems pretty good
[04:07:10] <cradek> sounds very promising
[04:13:00] <dgarr> interesting leadscrew: http://cncloisirs.com/Construction/Entra%EEnementVictorSendas
[04:13:10] <dgarr> google translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcncloisirs.com%2FConstruction%2FEntra%25EEnementVictorSendas&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
[04:15:07] <jmkasunich> neat
[04:15:27] <jmkasunich> gotta wonder how well the screw will hold up
[10:01:40] <anonimasu> mornin
[10:06:35] <hielk1> dos enione
[10:21:25] <hielk1> is here somthing going on?
[10:24:59] <fenn> nobody here but us chickens
[10:26:45] <hielk1> has sombody experience with blende to cnc?
[16:16:19] <skunkworks> sears is great. My 1.5 year old LG dish washer started to leak. The seal between the pump/chpper assemebly and the case started leaking. Went to lg site - no help. I went to sears and their part section and searched for the model number and poof - parts explosions. the seal is $19 dollars and will be here next week
[16:16:28] <skunkworks> (I bought it from best buy)
[16:18:24] <JymmmEMC> Sears does have one hell of a parts dept
[16:18:56] <skunkworks> easy to find things for sure.
[16:19:20] <JymmmEMC> I've found discontinued items, but not cheap
[16:19:50] <skunkworks> heh - I wish I could still get the back table for my drill pres..
[16:19:52] <skunkworks> press
[16:20:09] <skunkworks> (bought it at an auction - wasn't with it.
[16:20:42] <JymmmEMC> you probably can, just might be too expensive
[16:21:07] <skunkworks> no - we looked about a year ago.. discontinued item
[16:21:23] <skunkworks> it is an old drill press - 70's probalby
[16:27:18] <skunkworks> http://www.dickensheet.com/images/041908/Email1/100_5300.jpg
[16:27:38] <skunkworks> like that but should have a tilt table on the back side.
[16:28:40] <JymmmEMC> who makes it?
[16:29:00] <skunkworks> craftsman
[16:29:11] <skunkworks> well - I don;t know..
[16:29:27] <JymmmEMC> Well, they might just have parts for it still.
[16:29:58] <JymmmEMC> But sears doens't make their own tools, might be ryobi, jet, or someone else just rebranded
[16:31:38] <skunkworks> right
[17:43:32] <micges> hi alex_joni
[17:44:14] <micges> alex_joni: are there exists nml commands to set offsets like G10 ?
[17:45:26] <fenn> skunkworks: what's a drill press "back table"?
[17:48:39] <alex_joni> micges: I don't think so
[17:48:45] <alex_joni> offsets are in the interp/canon
[17:48:51] <alex_joni> that is before NML commands get sent
[17:49:15] <alex_joni> logger_emc: bookmark
[17:49:15] <alex_joni> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-09-07.txt
[18:07:24] <JymmmEMC> hey alex_joni
[18:08:06] <alex_joni> hey JymmmEMC
[18:08:12] <alex_joni> was just about to bbl :)
[18:08:31] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: carry on, just saying hi
[18:08:51] <JymmmEMC> In the middle of crating a ThinApp anyway
[18:08:56] <JymmmEMC> creating
[18:10:50] <alex_joni> ok.. catch you in a while
[18:16:18] <micges> what "Cutter gouging with cutter radius comp" mean ?
[18:17:11] <micges> emc/task/emctask.cc 312: interp_error: Cutter gouging with cutter radius comp
[18:19:31] <anonimasu> micges: are you trying to cut a arc that's the same size or smaller then your cutter?
[18:21:43] <fenn> micges might want to use TRUNK - that's fixed for a lookahead of 1 move (or something like that)
[18:22:30] <micges> fenn: what was fixed in trunk ?
[18:22:37] <fenn> cutter radius comp used to require an arc in every corner, now you can use it with sharp corners
[18:23:13] <fenn> but if you try to cut an omega shape, it will still gouge
[18:23:17] <micges> this is not in 2.2 branch ?
[18:23:34] <fenn> i dont think so, but i dont pay too much attention either
[18:30:53] <fenn> it might be on a branch still (concave_comp)
[18:34:49] <micges> yes it is
[18:36:17] <fenn> ok sorry for any confusion
[18:40:43] <micges> bye
[19:02:16] <alex_joni> fenn: I think that's in a branch, but cradek knows best
[19:06:40] <antichip> I got a rather tough question I think?
[19:08:23] <antichip> I got motion boards with pmd chips, They got serial interface, but I have not beenable to comunicate with the board as of yet.
[19:09:19] <antichip> They were used to run a dc motor with 360 line per inch linear encoders.
[19:12:36] <antichip> does anyone have experience with the pmd 3110 chips and boards?
[19:22:46] <archivist_ub> heh you have to sign your life away to get the chip tech docs
[19:51:09] <antichip> signed away already and got docs, but am still clueless ,I figured It was standard serial comunication through a terminal program, but I may be dead wrong
[19:53:57] <antichip> if nothing else it has LMD18200t motor power chips.
[20:14:58] <tomp> re: chip data sheets. never goto one of those fsckn 'free data sheet' places. goto Digikey or RS or Mouser etc. put 'em away in a folder for quick reference later.
[20:15:35] <tomp> or the mfctr
[20:19:13] <tomp> eg: digikey hands me free link to http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LMD18200.pdf
[20:37:06] <jepler> hm, after running a few thousand inches of tests to make myself confident the machine won't stall with these vel/accel settings, I notice that there are a lot of shavings that look the same color as the leadnuts. that can't be good..
[20:37:29] <jmkasunich> old nuts, or new ones?
[20:37:36] <alex_joni> ouch
[20:37:47] <archivist_ub> forgot to oil?
[20:38:02] <archivist_ub> or screws need a polish
[20:41:08] <jepler> jmkasunich: the old nuts
[20:41:20] <jepler> so I'm not sweating it too much
[20:42:32] <jmkasunich> oil is a good thing
[20:44:29] <archivist_ub> I need a special oil for a clock Im working on, it drives a worm with a wheel and its 60 to 1
[20:45:14] <archivist_ub> using a hypoid axle oil at the moment
[20:53:54] <pjm_> alex_joni, hi, did that dig-64 turn up yet?
[21:13:18] <tomp> is there a channel for eagle pcb cad? (#eagle doesnt exist) how to search this and other irc's for channels?
[21:16:15] <alex_joni> pjm_: yeah it did, thanks
[21:16:23] <alex_joni> still looking for an isa pc
[21:16:49] <jmkasunich> tomp: I
[21:16:57] <tomp> aha! to put a db connector on bottom of pcb ... (to make the board 'plug-in' to existing db ) "Use the mirror -tool to move a component to the bottom side of the PCB"
[21:16:57] <jmkasunich> I'd think there would be something here: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml
[21:17:06] <jmkasunich> but I don't see a way to get a list of channels
[21:17:20] <alex_joni> I think /list works usually
[21:17:30] <tomp> jmkasunich: thanks, maybe i can learn how to use this ;)
[21:17:46] <pjm_> alex_joni ok great, and did it arrive in good condition?
[21:18:31] <alex_joni> http://www.irseek.com/result.php?keywords=eagle+pcb
[21:18:36] <alex_joni> pjm_: looks like it
[21:18:46] <pjm_> perfect then ;-)
[21:19:10] <alex_joni> pjm_: yup .. should be good
[21:19:34] <tomp> alex_joni: i picked up Tyan Dual PIII with several isa & pci slots from Weird Stuff, then got registered 1 gig mem, all under 100$US
[21:19:46] <tomp> this board reported to be good latency tests
[21:21:34] <tomp> http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/15817
[21:21:43] <tomp> and the mem was cheap too
[21:21:54] <tomp> i got 2 sets if you need 1 set
[21:22:34] <alex_joni> tomp: shipping to eu might be a deal-killer though :D
[21:22:34] <tomp> no boxes, no ps yet
[21:24:17] <tomp> dunno, slow cheap or fast expensive = usual story
[21:26:02] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Tyan 2080?
[21:26:13] <JymmmEMC> or 2030
[21:28:01] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Chek it to make sure that the bios retains it's settings between power cycles.
[21:28:23] <JymmmEMC> I have TWO of those baords one from weirdstuff, and the they both hav ethe same issue
[21:28:39] <JymmmEMC> http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/15817
[21:33:46] <renesis> Supports up to 4GB of PC100/PC133 ECC RAM
[21:33:52] <renesis> hahaha good luck with that
[21:34:38] <renesis> prob spend as much on a few sticks of mem as for that whole combo =(
[21:34:59] <renesis> thats pretty hardcore for $60, tho
[21:36:42] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:37:33] <BigJohnT> good night alex
[21:38:21] <tomp> JymmmEMC: mobo sez Tayan S1832D, with twin piii cpus, with 4pcs pc133r 256meg ecc sync cl3 ram. all untested so far
[21:38:57] <tomp> renesis a local house, 1G registerd mem < 30$
[21:39:20] <tomp> nite alex
[21:40:05] <renesis> neat
[21:41:04] <renesis> i had some 200mhz ppros, both mobo i got for it burnt =(
[21:41:26] <renesis> haha the first was an old school psu connector, blacks in the middle
[21:41:34] <renesis> it melted the fucking connector wtf
[21:42:11] <renesis> but yeah those systems performed way better than anything 200MHz should have
[21:42:19] <tomp> what? gnd in the wrong place?
[21:42:31] <renesis> no it was fine, working for awhile
[21:42:38] <renesis> i think something sorted, dunno
[21:43:09] <tomp> sound like a short, cuz melt = lotsa power
[21:43:14] <renesis> yeh
[21:43:35] <renesis> im an electronics tech i know all about melting connectors!
[21:43:45] <renesis> * renesis a pro at shorting shit out
[21:44:12] <renesis> then i think the other failure was just a bad psu
[21:44:19] <renesis> that mobo was atx
[21:44:48] <renesis> i just kinda got sick of dropping money on decade old hardware
[21:45:14] <renesis> was fun to fuck around with an smp kernel, tho
[21:46:40] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Ok, but just be careful. I even contacted Tyan about i so I guess it was a design flaw
[21:46:58] <JymmmEMC> tomp: you in sunnyvale?
[21:47:21] <JymmmEMC> renesis: stay away from my wires tyvm =)
[21:47:34] <tomp> JymmmEMC: chicgao ! :) will any atx case work?
[21:47:39] <tomp> chicago
[21:47:49] <renesis> jymmmemc: yeh man i get shakey with those probes!
[21:49:02] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Heh, it's a full sized board, so just make sure that you have at least 1.5" of sapce above the board in your case in the top right corner (with I/O ports facing left)
[21:50:08] <JymmmEMC> tomp: OH! Slot one, cpus'
[21:50:21] <JymmmEMC> didn't realize that, thaought you went for the slot 378
[21:50:40] <JymmmEMC> nm then =)
[21:52:33] <tomp> thx... lookin for a case, good advice
[21:52:44] <JymmmEMC> any atx case will do
[21:52:51] <JymmmEMC> mid tower
[21:53:33] <JymmmEMC> weirdstuff is up the street from me, thats why I thought you werw in the area
[21:54:09] <tomp> ah, no but tiger direct main warehouse is just 15 minutes, and local outlet just 5 :))
[21:54:22] <JymmmEMC> But I would NEVER buy from them =)
[21:54:35] <tomp> tiger??
[21:54:39] <JymmmEMC> yep
[21:55:25] <tomp> i have no problems, and used 'em for years now. it's the cheap stuff king
[21:56:03] <JymmmEMC> tomp: But, I don't buy computer via mail order anyway
[21:56:04] <tomp> used 'em exclusively since 'computer fares' died
[21:56:27] <tomp> gotcha, i go to the warehouse... you're right
[21:58:58] <JymmmEMC> tomp: ftp://ftp.tyan.com/manuals/m_s1832_220.pdf
[21:59:39] <JymmmEMC> ok 12" by 9.8"
[22:00:35] <JymmmEMC> so, just be sure that the drive cages in the case you get can clear the mobo and it's cpus
[22:00:47] <JymmmEMC> should be easy though. it's not a full sized mobo
[22:00:57] <JymmmEMC> full size being 12" x 12"
[22:02:56] <tomp> yah been reading it! and 'only use 1 screw' !! interestin
[22:03:08] <JymmmEMC> bullshit
[22:03:23] <tomp> 1 metal screw
[22:03:27] <JymmmEMC> bullshit
[22:03:31] <tomp> others gotta be [plastic
[22:03:47] <JymmmEMC> I count 10
[22:03:57] <JymmmEMC> pg14 of the pdf
[22:04:04] <tomp> ok, its what the pdf sez
[22:04:09] <JymmmEMC> 3 at the top
[22:04:15] <JymmmEMC> 3 in the middle
[22:04:22] <JymmmEMC> 1 below that on the left side
[22:04:27] <JymmmEMC> and 3 on the bottom
[22:05:17] <JymmmEMC> and make sure to use that extra standoff too, or you'll fkex the PCB too much pulling in/out PCI cards
[22:05:46] <tomp> "TYAN recommends that you use only one screw to hold down the motherboard." page 19... no pissing contest, i'm just readin
[22:06:21] <JymmmEMC> Are you buying a shiny new case?
[22:06:29] <JymmmEMC> does it come with the plastic standoffs?
[22:06:45] <JymmmEMC> also, those extra screws help with grounding too
[22:07:28] <tomp> aint bought it yet, and i got bags o screws standoffs ...i can understand a single ground point tho, and multiple mechanical supports at same time
[22:07:34] <JymmmEMC> I'm the only one I know that actually has plastic standoffs, kind a raity (sorta kinda) and I hate them
[22:07:51] <JymmmEMC> they are a PITA to work with
[22:08:03] <tomp> i got drawers of 'em, (i work in edm where everything has to be isolated )
[22:08:09] <tomp> np
[22:08:13] <JymmmEMC> gotcha
[22:09:07] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Also, make sure you'll have 2 to 2.5" clearnece off the board to accomidate full height DIMM's
[22:09:10] <tomp> thx for the size info & links. i oughtta see if these things were worth the money spent :)
[22:09:43] <JymmmEMC> Heh, it's Slot1, I had to goto tyan's archive of archies to find it =)
[22:09:50] <JymmmEMC> Heh, it's Slot1, I had to goto tyan's archive of archives to find it =)
[22:10:05] <tomp> might be a good deal, might be 180$ worth o crap. will buy >1< case to check em
[22:10:24] <JymmmEMC> don't buy a case, just use a spare PS and bench test it
[22:10:32] <JymmmEMC> if it works, THEN buy a case
[22:12:20] <tomp> good idea ( but i'm so cheap , a 20$ midtower http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3509676&Sku=TC3J-4512)
[22:13:19] <JymmmEMC> hang on, let me grab a tape measure...
[22:13:53] <JymmmEMC> tomp: ok, that case should work.....
[22:14:14] <JymmmEMC> tomp: I was concerned about the last column of holes on the right in this pic...
[22:14:24] <JymmmEMC> http://images.tigerdirect.com/SkuImages/gallery/large/TC3J-4512-d.jpg
[22:14:42] <JymmmEMC> but they clear the drive cages it appears
[22:14:58] <JymmmEMC> wow, maybe not
[22:15:25] <JymmmEMC> tomp: look here http://images.tigerdirect.com/SkuImages/gallery/large/TC3J-4512-e.jpg
[22:15:45] <JymmmEMC> tomp: see HOW CLOSE the 5.25" drive cgae is to the back panel?
[22:16:01] <JymmmEMC> maybe 1/2" clearnace at best
[22:16:16] <tomp> lookin at pics... looks good! thx my 10 holes line up (by eyeball)
[22:16:31] <JymmmEMC> if a cdrom drive goes past the back of the cage, it'll hit the DIMMs onthe mobo
[22:16:44] <JymmmEMC> and most do
[22:17:16] <JymmmEMC> I'm comparing to two cases I have sitting in front of me too
[22:17:18] <tomp> ah! time to leave the front off and let it hang out front :)
[22:17:29] <tomp> your right!
[22:17:29] <JymmmEMC> ew.... tacky
[22:17:44] <JymmmEMC> now you know why it's $20
[22:17:57] <JymmmEMC> spend $21 and get a better case
[22:18:04] <JymmmEMC> and a PS too
[22:18:54] <tomp> well, i can bring the mobo to the warehouse, and i see i got at least 1" of mobo bfore the dimms ( floppy & 2 ide cnx deep )
[22:19:38] <tomp> see i'd cheap on the box and throw money at the supply
[22:20:02] <tomp> (throws a nickel ;)
[22:20:21] <JymmmEMC> tomp: BUT.... if you get a big enough case, you could toss your whole CNC drivers in the same enclosure
[22:20:51] <JymmmEMC> if your so encliend
[22:21:23] <JymmmEMC> or double-wide like a mobile home =)
[22:23:43] <tomp> :)
[22:25:07] <JymmmEMC> tomp: IF you have cpu/dimm issues, as a LAST RESORT... I might be able to sell you something, but I'm not cheap =)
[22:25:36] <JymmmEMC> $100 just to get me off my ass to tell you I don't have it =)
[22:26:55] <JymmmEMC> tomp: but act fast, as I'm proably throwing out everything today =)
[22:27:13] <JymmmEMC> or till the trash can fills up, whichever comes first
[22:27:33] <JymmmEMC> oh that reminds me...
[22:28:20] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: your crimpers are on my desk, hopefully I'll remember to toss them in my laptop bag
[22:28:29] <SkinnYPup_> I'm about to do a sim install for my laptop with no RT. Got the tars from sourceforge, where should I place the emc2-2.2.6 folder before i configure and make ?
[22:29:30] <JymmmEMC> why the source?
[22:29:44] <JymmmEMC> instead of apt-get install
[22:30:12] <SkinnYPup_> can it do a non rt sim with apt-get install ?
[22:31:13] <JymmmEMC> I'm not sure, never tried. alex_joniwould know for sure
[22:31:31] <tomp> JymmmEMC: thx, i'll try to get a p/s & test tonite
[22:32:12] <JymmmEMC> tomp: np, lets us know how it goes. also check latency
[22:32:45] <SkinnYPup_> I'd asked a while back I belive sim required building to use non rt.
[22:33:04] <JymmmEMC> I can use sim with the livecd fwiw
[22:33:09] <SkinnYPup_> JymmmEMC: I'll keep an eye out for alex.
[22:33:19] <SkinnYPup_> Silly laptop/tablet has no cd drive
[22:33:40] <JymmmEMC> Usb thumbstick
[22:33:53] <JymmmEMC> can you boot from usb?
[22:34:06] <SkinnYPup_> And it doesn't support usb boot unless its a toshiba cd drive ..lol
[22:34:30] <JymmmEMC> SkinnYPup well, this is out then.... http://www.pendrivelinux.com/2007/01/01/usb-knoppix-510/
[22:35:02] <JymmmEMC> maybe everyone should have bought this $400 laptop
[22:35:12] <SkinnYPup_> yep ... I like some of the pendrive stuff, had used some with DSL damnsmall
[22:35:16] <JymmmEMC> I got ubuntu and vbox running XP on it
[22:35:41] <JymmmEMC> I keep a usb stick with knoppix on me most of the time. just boot from usb... done
[22:37:24] <SkinnYPup_> pocket os , best thing since sliced bread I agree
[22:44:41] <tomp> any suggestions to burn a 4.4G dvd .iso? just made my 3rd coaster.
[22:44:47] <tomp> ´╗┐media is dual layer.
[22:44:48] <tomp> ´╗┐ i can see only 1/3 of disk is dark, and nautilus sez it has 128K total contents.
[22:45:28] <tomp> mounting the iso shows it really is 4.3G
[22:54:21] <jmkasunich> anybody familiar with 30 taper tooling?
[22:54:23] <Lerman> tomp: you still here?
[22:54:30] <tomp> yep
[22:54:49] <tomp> Lerman: :)
[22:54:51] <Lerman> Saw your notes about the wierd stuff mobo's.
[22:55:00] <SkullWorks_PGAB> NMTB 30 - or BT30 or CAT30 ?
[22:55:05] <tomp> got it in my lap now
[22:55:20] <tomp> hope to make stepper systems
[22:55:28] <Lerman> I bought six servers with similar specs for $150 each. Rack mount 2 gig ram.
[22:55:36] <tomp> woof!
[22:55:51] <jmkasunich> SkullWorks_PGAB: any or all
[22:56:08] <SkullWorks_PGAB> what do you want to know?
[22:56:09] <jmkasunich> I'm doing some pondering on my spindle project, considering alternatives
[22:56:10] <Lerman> They were clean as a whistle -- came from a rendering farm. They had 40 gig disks which I replaced.
[22:56:28] <jmkasunich> what do they use to hold them in? drawbar? retention knob?
[22:56:49] <jmkasunich> is that one of the main differences between the various flavors, like NMTB, BT, CAT, etc?
[22:57:06] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I just ordered 30 taper to do a spindle mock up too.
[22:57:14] <jmkasunich> from what google tells me, the taper part is the same for all
[22:57:26] <SkullWorks_PGAB> NMTB uses a draw bar just like R8
[22:57:28] <jmkasunich> (and Machinery's agrees)
[22:57:41] <tomp> Lerman: nice, i'm going into the pile-o-computers to see if any boxes/ps's are useable
[22:57:46] <SkullWorks_PGAB> CAT and BT usually have pull studs
[22:58:05] <jmkasunich> ok, that would tend to rule out CAT and BT
[22:58:17] <jmkasunich> (I don't want to make retention mechanisms)
[22:58:35] <SkullWorks_PGAB> NMTB has a solid flange - CAT & BT are grooved to fit a tool carosel
[22:58:58] <SkullWorks_PGAB> CAT 30 is rather rare
[22:59:18] <jmkasunich> there is also QC30, like on cradek's mill
[22:59:21] <SkullWorks_PGAB> BT 30 is popular overseas
[23:00:39] <SkullWorks_PGAB> QC30 is likely a spindle mounted NMTB adaptor which pushes tool up instaed of using a draw bar
[23:01:07] <jmkasunich> I dunno if the tooling for QC needs to have special flange shape and/or tolerance or not
[23:01:23] <jmkasunich> in theory it doesn't need the drawbar threads, I wonder if they are there anyway
[23:01:37] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Erickson made units that fir R8 spindles and used NMTB 30
[23:01:55] <SkullWorks_PGAB> * SkullWorks_PGAB can't type today
[23:02:06] <jmkasunich> cradek's (bridgeport BOSS) mill has the QC holder integral to the spindle, not an adapter
[23:03:19] <jmkasunich> when you said that NMTB30 uses a drawbar "same as R8", did you mean same general idea, or does it use the same thread and everything?
[23:03:51] <SkullWorks_PGAB> yeah - I used to run one like that with a Bandit control
[23:04:48] <SkullWorks_PGAB> let me dig that one... I think its the same 7/16-20 as RB
[23:05:28] <jmkasunich> I just found somebody on CNCzone saying that QC30 uses 1/2-13
[23:05:34] <jmkasunich> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-10722.html
[23:05:39] <jmkasunich> third post in the thread
[23:08:18] <jmkasunich> and this guy says it's 1/2-16 ;-)
[23:08:23] <jmkasunich> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=234338&postcount=7
[23:08:59] <SkullWorks_PGAB> if its 1/2 then its 1/2-13
[23:11:17] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I ordered this http://i18.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/1f/84/f9_1.JPG to maybe make a 30 taper spindle conversion for my X3.
[23:11:51] <jmkasunich> don't understand - the X3 is R8, isn't it?
[23:12:00] <SkullWorks_PGAB> not sure if it will allow like - works he, but its in the browser cache
[23:12:16] <jmkasunich> the pic works
[23:12:21] <SkullWorks_PGAB> yes, comes as R8
[23:12:50] <jmkasunich> the R8 is deeper and fatter than the 30, so the back part of the 30 taper will be "in the breeze" I would think
[23:13:20] <jmkasunich> is that back straight section on the 30 supposed to engage a precision bore in the spindle, or does it contact on the tapered part only?
[23:13:25] <SkullWorks_PGAB> R8 holders hang out farther than I like for anything over 1/2"
[23:14:17] <SkullWorks_PGAB> should only locate on the taper - the long part is for draw bar threads
[23:14:57] <jmkasunich> ok - I was wondering, because Machinery's gives 0.685 to 0.692 for that straight diameter - not exactly precision, but most photos I've seen have it ground
[23:15:55] <jmkasunich> it looks like both R8 and 30 are too deep for my project
[23:16:18] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I think they use that as a setting point when grinding
[23:16:20] <jmkasunich> the spindle bore steps down to 6mm about 2.5" in
[23:16:37] <jmkasunich> it would take a mighty skinny boring bar to open that up (or a carbide drill)
[23:16:59] <SkullWorks_PGAB> JMK using only small tools 1/2" and under?
[23:17:28] <jmkasunich> for the most part
[23:17:56] <jmkasunich> my plan so far is to use the Tormach system (3/4" collet, straight shank holders with a flange that engages the spindle nose)
[23:17:56] <SkullWorks_PGAB> might look at the Haas mini mill tool holder style
[23:18:17] <SkullWorks_PGAB> ah -much more cost effective
[23:18:49] <jmkasunich> the trick is going to be making the collet - I had hoped to be able to use either the R8 or MT3 ones that tormach (and everybody else) sells
[23:18:53] <SkullWorks_PGAB> and they are working on a TTS version of a tension/compression tapping head.
[23:18:55] <jmkasunich> but again, they're too deep
[23:19:52] <jmkasunich> I need a collet with a 3/4" bore 1-1/2" deep, and an overall length (including drawbar threads) of under 2-1/2"
[23:20:25] <jmkasunich> R8 is 4", MT3 is 3-3/16, 30 taper is 2.88"
[23:24:10] <SkullWorks_PGAB> can't find a link to a tooling pic - but the Haas "Office Mill" has some nifty 20 taper tooling that would be a good design starting point
[23:24:51] <jmkasunich> but where would I buy toolholders
[23:24:56] <jmkasunich> R8 is everywhere
[23:25:01] <jmkasunich> 30 taper not too bad
[23:25:05] <jmkasunich> 20 taper?
[23:25:16] <SkullWorks_PGAB> true
[23:25:39] <jmkasunich> If I'm reading MH right, 20 taper is 0.875 at the gage line
[23:25:50] <SkullWorks_PGAB> ever see a U-200 Qwik switch
[23:25:58] <jmkasunich> nope
[23:26:19] <SkullWorks_PGAB> they are 20 taper
[23:26:45] <SkullWorks_PGAB> works great - just never became real popular
[23:28:21] <jmkasunich> bah, MSC doesn't have any qwik-switch
[23:28:39] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Bisley tool
[23:29:14] <SkullWorks_PGAB> ok both those are too obscure
[23:29:56] <jmkasunich> the more I look, the more I like TTS
[23:31:27] <SkullWorks_PGAB> you could also make a TTS style collet using a 7/8" for toolholders which need alittle more meat.
[23:32:00] <jmkasunich> the spindle dimensions make 3/4" a pretty good fit
[23:32:25] <jmkasunich> I just need to make a collet that is only 2.45" long
[23:32:35] <jmkasunich> hah - "just"
[23:32:51] <SkullWorks_PGAB> what are 3c?
[23:33:59] <jmkasunich> 2.688" long, max diameter 1/2"
[23:34:01] <JymmmEMC> SkullWorks_PGAB: Cut, cuss cuase you cut it to short, and cash to buy another one
[23:34:11] <jmkasunich> http://www.loganact.com/tips/collet.htm
[23:34:55] <jmkasunich> man, have a few collets: http://shopswarf.orconhosting.net.nz/collet.html
[23:35:46] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: SkinnYPup was asking, do es one need soruce to install sim, or is apt-get install good enough
[23:36:31] <jmkasunich> I'm not the expert here, but I'm 95% sure there are no binary packages for sim, you need to compile it
[23:36:58] <JymmmEMC> Oh. I thought it was included in apt-get variant
[23:37:01] <jmkasunich> darn - none of the collets listed on that page that are under 2-1/2" long handle 3/4" rounds
[23:37:21] <jmkasunich> I said I'm not the expert - I don't have anything to do with generation of the binary packages
[23:42:07] <SkullWorks_PGAB> how do you need to clamp it - maybe a tool collet might work
[23:42:38] <SkullWorks_PGAB> ER TG DA or some otherseries
[23:46:32] <jmkasunich> well, the spindles already have spring drawbars (bellville stacks), so it would be nice to use that
[23:47:10] <jmkasunich> dunno if you've already seen these or not - I've talked about them here before, but don't recall if you were there
[23:47:25] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/spindle-project/part01.html
[23:47:29] <jmkasunich> pics and drawing
[23:47:45] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I might just have a custom short version of an R8 made up.
[23:48:04] <jmkasunich> that or MT3
[23:48:14] <jmkasunich> I'm drawing both at the moment to see how they fit into the spindle
[23:48:31] <jmkasunich> R8 would be easier to release the tool, MT is self locking
[23:49:02] <SkullWorks_PGAB> MT3 tend to have release issues - they need a good rap on the back to break them loose.
[23:52:58] <SkullWorks_PGAB> too bad there isn't any HSK collets - but then that would make things too easy
[23:54:10] <jmkasunich> yeah
[23:54:20] <SkullWorks_PGAB> bbl - food be gettin cold.
[23:54:22] <jmkasunich> I thought about making a custom collet with the front taper matched to HSK