#emc | Logs for 2008-09-03

[02:04:50] <toastydeath> ffff
[02:26:10] <yatesdr> ?
[02:27:01] <jmkasunich> hi
[02:27:06] <yatesdr> hi
[02:27:57] <yatesdr> my apologies I am not very familiar with IRC in general
[02:28:19] <yatesdr> i am struggling with my CNC lathe I've built trying to get it to sync an index pulse for EMC2
[02:29:15] <yatesdr> yatesdr is now known as dareposte
[02:30:40] <SWPadnos> struggling how?
[02:30:51] <stustev> it doesn't work
[02:31:19] <SWPadnos> HAL doesn't see it, it doesn't do what you think when threading ... ?
[02:31:21] <dareposte> i am building a TTL level circuit, but the documentation seems to be a bit unclear as to what minimum is required to sync
[02:31:25] <dareposte> no i'm not that far yet
[02:33:17] <dareposte> i guess the question i'm having is what sort of input is required at a minimum to sync the spindle? In the HAL it looks like it will accept any number of pulses per revolution, but from other reading it suggests only quadrature style inputs are useful
[02:33:47] <jmkasunich> the latest (unreleased) EMC2 can use one pulse per revolution
[02:33:51] <dareposte> tested with a 555 circuit to simulate an index pulse, and it looks like it would sync up and attepmt to thread
[02:33:52] <stustev> for sync you want only one pulse per revolution
[02:34:02] <dareposte> that seems so easy though...
[02:34:05] <dareposte> :)
[02:34:14] <stustev> it is just that easy
[02:34:21] <SWPadnos> you can use a single pulse (also doubles as index), or an index plus slotted wheel, or a quadrature encoder
[02:34:24] <dareposte> so why do people make quadrature inputs?
[02:34:30] <jmkasunich> otherwise, you need at least an index channel (one pulse per rev) and a counter channel (N pulses, where N is from 50 to a few hundred
[02:34:43] <SWPadnos> you get bettter results with a higher resolution
[02:34:54] <dareposte> measurably better? or theoretically better
[02:34:55] <SWPadnos> also, for a mill you need quadrature to do rigid tapping
[02:35:03] <SWPadnos> dunno, I don't have a lathe :)
[02:35:09] <dareposte> i see
[02:35:11] <jmkasunich> the amount of better depends on your spindle
[02:35:20] <SWPadnos> and your patience
[02:35:35] <jmkasunich> if you are taking heavy cuts on a underpowered machine, so it slows down at the start of the cut, 1ppr will have problems
[02:35:38] <stustev> for threading I am sure it is measurably better - good threads need good accuracy
[02:35:42] <SWPadnos> if you do 100 spring passes, the threads will probably be just as good with one PPR
[02:35:46] <jmkasunich> because it won't know about the slow-down until a full rev later
[02:35:59] <dareposte> that makes sense
[02:36:18] <dareposte> so the PID loop in EMC2 uses all data available then, and not just the index pulse for threading
[02:36:23] <SWPadnos> so "measurably bette, unles syou compensate for your weak machine/feedback setup" :)
[02:36:28] <SWPadnos> of course!
[02:36:34] <dareposte> just checking!
[02:36:44] <SWPadnos> 1PPR is only in the latest rev - it was just added recently
[02:36:57] <SWPadnos> (it's theoretically worse, so we didn't really care to add it for a long time)
[02:37:00] <dareposte> ahh that may explain some of the reading I had done
[02:37:24] <SWPadnos> why work to take a step backwards, I always say
[02:37:33] <dareposte> it does simplify it a great deal
[02:37:47] <dareposte> and simplicity is to be valued as well in my opinion
[02:38:08] <SWPadnos> yes, you can work around the lack of feedback, so if that's your thing, start compiling :)
[02:38:26] <SWPadnos> (note that jmkasunich mentioned that it's in the not-yet-released version)
[02:38:44] <dareposte> my spindle is driven off a VFD, so it might be viable in this situation as compared to an asynch motor
[02:39:15] <dareposte> or at least I was speculating that it might be
[02:39:17] <SWPadnos> if you have good speed control, and you don't take too heavy a cut, it should be fine
[02:40:15] <stustev> jmkasunich: SWPadnos: have you seen the cinci video I posted today? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn1bJ3YAQdI
[02:40:18] <dareposte> I think I will try it out for kicks, do I need to pull it out of cvs?
[02:40:29] <SWPadnos> stustev, yep - cool stuff!
[02:40:40] <jmkasunich> stustev yes
[02:40:46] <stustev> great
[02:40:50] <SWPadnos> dareposte, yes, check the installing wiki page - there are instructions for "building from CVS"
[02:41:14] <dareposte> will do
[02:41:15] <jmkasunich> what are the rapids on the cinci?
[02:41:36] <stustev> 120
[02:41:45] <dareposte> that is impressive video
[02:41:46] <jmkasunich> wow, doesn't seem that fast in the video
[02:41:58] <stustev> thank you
[02:42:00] <SWPadnos> big table ;)
[02:42:04] <jmkasunich> I guess "big" has a way of making things seem slower
[02:42:04] <stustev> yes
[02:43:03] <dareposte> where the needle bounced was that at the end of the motion?
[02:43:16] <dareposte> they look frozen otherwise
[02:43:23] <dareposte> right around 2:45ish
[02:43:33] <skunkworks> dareposte: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACvRilmIKDQ
[02:44:26] <jmkasunich> stustev: know any tricks for avoiding built-up edge on lathe tools
[02:44:32] <jmkasunich> cutting drill rod with HSS
[02:44:59] <dareposte> skunkworks: that is also impressive, what size bit is that?
[02:45:01] <jmkasunich> just about the time I get everything touched off and each pass is coming out the right diameter, I get a build up and the next pass is undersize
[02:45:17] <jmkasunich> dareposte: the blank is about 1/2" diameter at the large end
[02:45:37] <skunkworks> stustev: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57550
[02:46:23] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich, hmmm. do you suppose the same thing would happen when boring aluminum?
[02:46:34] <jmkasunich> could
[02:46:43] <SWPadnos> I had a problem like that when making bearing pockets for JymmmEMC's machine
[02:46:48] <jmkasunich> although aluminum you can run faster - usually speed helps with BUE
[02:47:09] <SWPadnos> holes look great, do another pass (no adjustment), and they're oversize a thou or two
[02:47:18] <stustev> dareposte: the bounce is at motion reversal of one or more axes
[02:47:25] <jmkasunich> oh, that might be spring in the boring bar
[02:47:45] <jmkasunich> although I've gotten BUE on aluminum too
[02:47:51] <jmkasunich> where you using cutting fluid?
[02:48:15] <SWPadnos> coolant with some lube stuff in it, not something nice like tap-magic/Aluminum
[02:48:16] <jmkasunich> something "lube-y" (as opposed to water based "cool-y") helps
[02:48:25] <stustev> jmkasunich: you can hone the edges to sharpen them - sorry about the delay - was showing the video to my wife
[02:48:31] <SWPadnos> hand sprayed "as necessary" :)
[02:49:04] <jmkasunich> for the parts I'm making today I've been using gear oil - stinky, but it usually works
[02:49:14] <jmkasunich> unfortunately the turning tool isn't staying clean for some reason
[02:49:21] <jmkasunich> I've honed it once or twice
[02:49:32] <jmkasunich> can't find my fine diamond hone, so I used medium
[02:49:39] <dareposte> stustev: Do you hand code for that beast?
[02:49:40] <stustev> you are cutting the hardened surface?
[02:49:51] <jmkasunich> no, plain old drill rod
[02:49:56] <jmkasunich> HSS tool
[02:50:11] <jmkasunich> (this isn't the spindle boring project - its the bosch collets from yesterday)
[02:50:15] <stustev> you can had code for pretty complicated motion with EMC2 but no we have a couple of programming systems
[02:50:25] <jmkasunich> I'm making unbored collets, then I'll bore them in the spindle as you suggested
[02:50:27] <stustev> the program you see is hand coded
[02:50:40] <dareposte> that is wild
[02:51:01] <dareposte> we use full 6dof robots at my work, and i only attempted to hand code those once, failed miserably in fact
[02:51:44] <stustev> all the rotary motion is either Axxx or Bxxx or Axxx Bxxx - the linear axes are compensated for pivot length and tool length
[02:52:35] <dareposte> auto compensated or linear commands
[02:53:22] <stustev> BUE is welding - too much heat
[02:54:33] <SWPadnos> dareposte, that's the reason why EMC2 has "pluggable" kinematics - you can set up the transforms between world coordinates (G-code) and joint space (the actual DOF of the machine), and then program the tool motion as you want
[02:54:41] <stustev> EMC2 moves the linear axes using the pivot length and tool length and keeps the programmed point (the center of the ball) in one spot
[02:54:55] <dareposte> i see, very clever
[02:55:23] <dareposte> my background is a bit different, but it sounds like "joint" mode with the inverse kinematics already fully constrained
[02:55:34] <dareposte> or "tool" mode
[02:56:19] <dareposte> emc developers on here?
[02:56:40] <SWPadnos> you define both forward and inverse kinematics, so EMC can both command new "poses" for each move, and so it can determine actual position from joint feedback
[02:56:42] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:56:59] <SWPadnos> you can define only one, if you choose
[02:57:07] <jmkasunich> stustev: too much heat? should I lower the surface speed?
[02:57:33] <stustev> yes or MUCH more coolant - try plain water
[02:58:02] <jmkasunich> I'm only at 57 FPM right now, its hard to believe that is too fast
[02:58:29] <stustev> no lubricity but will cool good - just a thought - lubricity is why water based coolants have emulsified oils in them
[02:58:52] <stustev> do you have an insert cutter?
[02:58:55] <jmkasunich> I can try slower, but I can't really do water based coolant or flood - this machine isn't set up for that, it gets everywhere
[02:59:04] <jmkasunich> not for this, I'm using HSS
[02:59:21] <dareposte> if you go too slow chip formation suffers and you will get that
[02:59:59] <stustev> do you have WD-40? you need something that wets the surface well and quick
[03:00:43] <SWPadnos> heh - stinky everywhere then ;)
[03:00:54] <jmkasunich> I can try that (been using gear oil, so wd40 is NOT stinkier)
[03:01:03] <SWPadnos> oh, no indeed
[03:01:11] <stustev> I think he is trying to take only .001 or .002 of the diameter
[03:01:53] <dareposte> whats the rake angle on your tool bit?
[03:02:17] <jmkasunich> rake angle is somewhat positive, not sure (hand ground bit)
[03:02:22] <stustev> very small tool nose radius - a very sharp edge
[03:02:22] <jmkasunich> probably 10 degrees or so
[03:02:33] <jmkasunich> its as sharp as I can get it
[03:02:48] <dareposte> for a thin cut like that you might try very sharp positive rake angle, it will lower the cutting stresses
[03:03:28] <dareposte> which prevents chip welding
[03:03:33] <jmkasunich> regarding depth - ranges from 0.020" to 0.003"
[03:04:06] <jmkasunich> well, my goal was to make four of these collets, and I've finished the turning part on #3
[03:04:31] <jmkasunich> so other than experimenting with cutting fluid or speed, there isn't a lot that I want to change now
[03:04:37] <dareposte> understood
[03:04:41] <jmkasunich> oh, honing, I can do that
[03:06:00] <stustev> dareposte: jmkasunich and SWPadnos are two of the EMC2 developers
[03:06:23] <jmkasunich> I'm better at programming than machining ;-)
[03:06:32] <SWPadnos> and don't forget stustev, if you have a big-ass cincinatti mill ;)
[03:06:34] <jmkasunich> (I hope so anyway)
[03:07:02] <SWPadnos> heh - I know I am, but that's because I know that I know little about machining :)
[03:08:30] <stustev> i don't consider myself a developer - I am a user
[03:09:20] <SWPadnos> you seem to be developing just fine, thank you
[03:09:43] <dareposte> if anybody wants a machining reference, I have gotten great great use out of a $4.50 copy of "technology of machine tools" published some time in the 80's, available super cheap from used book sellers
[03:10:12] <SWPadnos> I very nearly bought "The Art of Hand Scraping" (or close) a couple of days ago
[03:10:36] <dareposte> wow that must be an old one
[03:10:41] <SWPadnos> I like to know what I'm missing by using automated machines :)
[03:10:49] <SWPadnos> yeah, from the late 1800s or early 1900s I think
[03:10:57] <dareposte> the CNC section in my text makes for interesting reading these days
[03:11:01] <dareposte> punch-cards anybody?
[03:11:20] <SWPadnos> don't laugh - a few of the folks here haev tape readers (mostly defunct)
[03:11:22] <SWPadnos> have
[03:11:30] <dareposte> and emc probably supports it ;-)
[03:11:31] <cradek> I just retired one a week or two ago
[03:11:35] <SWPadnos> ewwww
[03:11:49] <cradek> fortunately it didn't work, or knowing me, I'd be punching tapes now
[03:11:56] <stustev> I have a punch to donate too
[03:12:10] <SWPadnos> use a CNC to punch the tapes
[03:12:25] <stustev> talk about efficient
[03:12:27] <dareposte> ISBN# is 0-07-035563-0
[03:12:40] <dareposte> a cnc tape puncher?
[03:12:46] <dareposte> can it punch tapes to program itself?
[03:12:52] <SWPadnos> yeah - self-replicating machines ;)
[03:12:56] <SWPadnos> wouldn't that be funny
[03:13:30] <stustev> machine tools can replicate themselves - other machinery cannot do that
[03:13:46] <SWPadnos> luckily, they still need some human help
[03:13:52] <stustev> for now
[03:14:02] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:14:36] <SWPadnos> I saw a cool production line with a couple of EDM machines, then about 6 lathe/mill machines and a robot to feed them
[03:14:52] <SWPadnos> cast blanks go in one end, the finished parts come out the other
[03:15:03] <dareposte> a casting robot too? I saw one of those once
[03:15:04] <SWPadnos> nobody touches them during the process
[03:15:08] <cradek> cool, I am getting bores and outside diameters within .0002 without much trouble. the X screw is amazing.
[03:15:13] <SWPadnos> no, I think that was in another room
[03:15:26] <cradek> the turret and tool holders are very stout.
[03:15:56] <stustev> nice
[03:16:17] <cradek> I may try to have the Z screw/nut rebuilt. I wonder what it costs.
[03:17:58] <cradek> none of the places (with websites I found) will give you any kind of quote without you sending the screw
[03:18:10] <cradek> kind of hard to know who to pick then
[03:19:14] <stustev> It is likely any of them will do you a good job.
[03:19:55] <stustev> they don't know if larger balls will do the trick or they may have to rebuild the whole thing
[03:20:14] <cradek> true
[03:20:32] <cradek> have you had any done?
[03:21:12] <stustev> I have had one built - for the Y axis on the cinci - I forget how much
[03:21:53] <cradek> this would be "a little" smaller - comparing the price would not be meaningful anyway
[03:22:13] <stustev> that's why I haven't tried to mention price - no way to know
[03:22:32] <cradek> do you remember who did it? (and was it right?)
[03:23:13] <stustev> yes it was right - that was in 1998 - I don't remember - I think in Michigan
[03:24:00] <stustev> how much play do you have?
[03:24:48] <cradek> .002-.003
[03:25:20] <cradek> when I took the cover off the nut, what looked like water poured out of where oil should have been
[03:25:30] <stustev> is the play concentrated in one area? (probably)
[03:25:46] <cradek> no I think it is everywhere. but I should test more
[03:25:52] <stustev> it probably was water - from the coolant
[03:26:14] <cradek> if it is wear, it is probably pretty even. to change tools you have to move pretty much to the far end.
[03:26:14] <stustev> if it is everywhere you can buy bigger balls and refit it yourself
[03:26:28] <cradek> hmm, that could be fun to try
[03:26:43] <cradek> and by fun I mean "extremely stressful"
[03:26:51] <stustev> I tried it with the cinci screw - thought I had it - it was very tight until I move the Y axis with it
[03:26:56] <SWPadnos> you'll know if it didn't work when it binds somewhere
[03:27:21] <stustev> the stress seated the balls deeper and it was looser than when I started
[03:27:25] <cradek> if I could put it back together like original, nothing lost except time
[03:28:00] <stustev> it is always fun to tear something apart to find out how it works or why it doesn't
[03:28:05] <cradek> oh I see, it would have to be reground to match the new balls
[03:28:09] <cradek> for a heavy machine anyway
[03:28:43] <cradek> yes I might try it. thanks for the idea.
[03:28:51] <stustev> I think with a little more practice I could refit a ball screw - I would work a lot more to seat the balls
[03:29:41] <cradek> would you have to increase the size a couple times maybe?
[03:29:48] <dareposte> i just repacked a ball nut tonight and it was disaster
[03:29:53] <dareposte> be careful!
[03:29:55] <stustev> the cinci's have a split nut - a spacer in between them - I have thought a hydraulic cylinder would be good - variable preload
[03:30:16] <stustev> dareposte: my result exactly
[03:30:20] <cradek> hm, if this has that, maybe I can adjust it out
[03:30:34] <cradek> I will study it more.
[03:32:05] <stustev> bed time gentlemen - my wife has projects for me to complete before Friday - or I cannot go to IMTS this weekend :) HA! I am going anyway! She can't tell ME what to do!
[03:32:29] <cradek> heh, goodnight
[03:34:02] <dareposte> thanks for your help stustev
[03:36:09] <jmkasunich> it would be neat to go to IMTS sometime
[04:19:17] <jmkasunich> stustev: just to let you know - I dropped the speed from 57 SFPM to 30 SFPM, and the built-up edge problem pretty much went away (very minor buildup on one cut)
[04:19:57] <jmkasunich> I would have never tried going slower - I know when you are using carbide, you go faster to avoid BUE
[04:20:03] <jmkasunich> thanks
[04:20:07] <jmkasunich> and goodnight
[04:22:04] <dave_1> hey skunkworks ... you still up and around??
[04:27:00] <dave_1> maybe skunkworks will read the log. I installed the new smi.ko module and the latency-test got lots better. Base thread is still a bit wobbly but
[04:27:18] <dave_1> servo thread look dot on.
[06:41:08] <aureal> Hello, can somebody point me to low-cost stepper drivers, please? 3-axis mill, bi-polar, 2A/phase is sufficient. Maybe half and quarter steps.
[06:44:57] <SkinnYPup> Some diy stuff on pminmo.com
[06:45:48] <aureal> Thanks. Which costs must I estimate for ready assembled ones?
[06:46:02] <aureal> I am simply too busy.
[06:47:42] <SkinnYPup> Seen gecko drives? I used gecko g203v but have only done one machine ever. I've had no problems whatsoever
[06:48:43] <SkinnYPup> What kind of mill do you have?
[06:54:28] <aureal> Oh, it is actually an engraving machine (Gravograph VX100). With some little adaptions it can be converted into a normal 3-axes mill. A very rugged piece of hardware, but the electronics was damaged. So I got it very cheap.
[06:54:48] <SkinnYPup> Cool , nothing beats very cheap.
[06:56:41] <aureal> Yepp. I built now stepper drives according to the L297 of pminmo.com, but if I adjust to more than ~0.75A, the chopper stops and the chip explodes. Well, 0.75A is still enough for PCB and plastic milling, but if not, I'll take ready made drives.
[11:48:41] <jepler> hm, my machine has started stalling in homing again, but "I didn't change anything"
[11:50:10] <archivist_ub> yours is the plastic frame one ?
[11:50:42] <jepler> yes
[11:51:09] <archivist_ub> teperature change? plastic can moce a lot
[11:51:14] <archivist_ub> move
[11:52:59] <archivist_ub> I still get a few stalls due to stiffness, my x is a little fussy and Z needs a better screw arrangement
[11:54:12] <jepler> it may be a little bit cooler in here now than a week ago, but no more than 5 degrees F -- it's in the basement so the tempreature swings are fairly modest
[11:54:27] <archivist_ub> I went of the end on my X the other day and the taper adjuster moved to stiffen it
[11:55:26] <archivist_ub> I also suffer from swarf getting on the slides, that affects friction and play
[11:56:18] <archivist_ub> only by using the things that little problems like this show up
[11:56:43] <jepler> "X" is above the table, so it's not swarf
[11:57:10] <archivist_ub> well pcb dust flies :)
[11:57:22] <jepler> true
[11:59:17] <archivist_ub> and the "dust" is nice jagged glass fibers
[12:02:14] <archivist_ub> I made a small engine where dust will seize the piston in the bore
[12:03:04] <jepler> I turned up the current on X (I had it at 50% of rated, now at 70% of rated) and the problem has gone from 1-in-3 to less than 1-in-20
[12:05:39] <jepler> same on "Y" -- so it's "fixed", but what changed?
[12:06:19] <archivist_ub> likely friction, but with steppers they do need to be driven near rating
[12:08:12] <archivist_ub> another one to catch the unwary with steppers, is when first built its tight and damps the stepper resonance, when free later the stepper resonance is worse
[12:08:51] <jepler> I understand that running under rated current will lower my torque, but despite that I had spent a lot of time running at these Vref and inifile settings without trouble ..
[12:09:33] <jepler> oh well, I need to head into the office instead of playing with this
[12:09:36] <jepler> .. it's just been bugging me all night
[12:09:47] <archivist_ub> work!! I hate it
[12:09:54] <jepler> heh
[12:09:56] <jepler> talk to you later
[12:10:00] <archivist_ub> back to ebay .....
[12:10:34] <archivist_ub> got a ball screw and nut this morning
[12:16:30] <skunkworks_> nice
[12:17:43] <archivist_ub> and working on http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200248687996
[12:19:00] <archivist_ub> screw is item 200248881852
[12:19:21] <archivist_ub> build a bigger better machine :)
[13:35:05] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[13:36:16] <Vq^> logger_emc: im ok with that
[13:36:16] <Vq^> I'm logging. I don't understand 'im ok with that', Vq^. Try /msg logger_emc help
[13:36:23] <Vq^> :)
[14:21:39] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[15:46:32] <cradek> Once you've instated a canned cycle, however, you must not place blank lines in the program. Remember that canned cycles are modal--a hole will be machined in every command, and the machine will interpret a blank line as a command. [on fanuc]
[15:47:21] <pjm> alex_joni : hello, did that dig64 io card arrive yet?
[15:49:27] <archivist_ub> sounds painful cradek
[15:49:59] <cradek> yeah, seems nasty to me too
[15:50:29] <cradek> in the incremental mode .... Z becomes the distance from the R plane to the hole bottom (Z will always be negative, and if the R plane is 0.1 inch above the work surface, Z's value will always be equal to the hole depth plus 0.1 inch).
[15:50:52] <cradek> but on this page there is reason to believe that emc does g91 cycles the same way fanuc does
[15:51:12] <cradek> but, the example he gives right after this paragraph seems wrong
[15:51:17] <cradek> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3101/is_5_79/ai_n27014836
[15:52:36] <cradek> hm, if preview of rapids is turned off, I can still select the invisible lines
[15:52:39] <cradek> I wonder if that's a feature
[15:54:12] <jepler> cradek: good question
[15:54:17] <jepler> cradek: probably not
[17:22:55] <alex_joni> pjm: yes it did
[17:22:58] <alex_joni> thanks a lot ;)
[17:23:10] <alex_joni> still trying to find time to scavange for an ISA PC
[19:28:37] <Paragon> Hello All, I have a question to ask. Does EMC support the use of USB - Parallel port adapters? Just I have a laptop I wish to use but it does not have a para port.
[19:28:55] <cradek> nope
[19:29:09] <cradek> you need a machine with an onboard parport, or one on a PCI card
[19:29:37] <cradek> USB devices cannot be controlled in realtime so they are unsuitable for the kind of machine control EMC does
[19:30:05] <Paragon> Hi Cradek .... It's been a long time ... That's a shame thought it would be a cheap option.
[19:32:37] <Paragon> Would a PCMCIA card be sufficient?
[19:32:48] <cradek> no, sorry
[19:32:55] <SWPadnos> Alex has tried that, I don't recall if it worked or not
[19:33:00] <cradek> laptops are generally bad at realtime performance anyway, because of all their power saving stuff
[19:33:11] <cradek> SWPadnos: do you still have the url for that $50 motherboard/ram/cpu kit?
[19:33:20] <SWPadnos> right - PCMCIA may work, but the laptop is probably no good :)
[19:33:28] <SWPadnos> newegg - hold on a sec
[19:33:51] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135060
[19:34:05] <Paragon> I see .... No problem I stick to my old AMD box
[19:34:11] <SWPadnos> oops - that's the MB+CPU only, the one with memory is $10 more, but out of stock
[19:35:32] <Paragon> I see the LiveCD is running Ubuntu 8. Has there been any more advances especially with regards to the pluto board?
[19:36:11] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: I found the bean pills :)
[19:36:18] <SWPadnos> cool
[19:36:38] <SWPadnos> did it turn out to be the Phase II stuff?
[19:37:28] <BigJohnT> yep, found it a local health food store
[19:37:36] <SWPadnos> nice
[19:38:09] <BigJohnT> find out in a few days if it works...
[19:38:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:38:32] <SWPadnos> I don't think it should be used as a dietary supplement - more like beano :)
[19:38:44] <SWPadnos> ie, use it when you need to eat, and the only thing around is a sandwich
[19:39:02] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT nods
[19:40:36] <cradek> ubuntu 6 and 8 run the same emc2 code - there is no difference
[19:41:01] <Paragon> Thanks cradek
[19:45:01] <Paragon> Just took a look at the change logs appears there has been quite a lot work on the pluto since it was introduced on into the official release.
[19:45:55] <cradek> I have one running my sherline lathe. It works great with my computer but not with some others I've tried.
[19:47:01] <skunkworks_> I have not run into a computer that won't run the pluto.. yet. (that sounds a little confusing..)
[19:47:07] <Paragon> I had problems with one of the axis last time I tried it on my Denford Starmill. It would only work on 2 axis but not three.
[19:47:32] <cradek> that is a different problem then. maybe your pluto is bad.
[19:48:27] <Paragon> This was with steppers not servos if that makes any difference?
[19:49:55] <cradek> yeah totally different. jeff is using pluto-step for his desktop machine now.
[19:49:58] <Paragon> I think it was a bug as when one moved in one of the axis the z axis would also show movement within EMC2
[19:50:31] <cradek> maybe you should try again. I am sure it is working now.
[19:50:34] <skunkworks_> about all you can do is try it again
[19:50:37] <skunkworks_> heh
[19:52:41] <Paragon> I cant remember the exact error but someone else had the same issue and posted to the cnc forum. Yeah I am keen to try again. I've been out of the game for a while due to house move and not having anywhere to use the cnc mill and lathe. Just completed building a small workshop and have finaly got power so hoping to get it installed shortly. :-)
[19:55:34] <cradek> any tricks to getting a straight part other than making sure the tool is in straight?
[19:58:08] <archivist_ub> in what way are you getting "bent"
[19:58:26] <cradek> away from the headstock a bit
[19:58:36] <archivist_ub> Ive had a number of reasons
[19:59:06] <archivist_ub> from the tool center hieght, to spring in the work
[19:59:27] <archivist_ub> and machine stiffness or just worn out
[19:59:45] <cradek> I don't think I'm getting spring, I'm parting at .001/rev in 1" aluminum, it looks very gentle
[20:00:19] <cradek> I'll check the height again, but I was pretty careful
[20:00:38] <archivist_ub> are parting flatness, thats tool spring and bias in the grind at the tip
[20:01:02] <archivist_ub> or a dull corner
[20:01:10] <cradek> hm maybe it's the grind. it is a new tool but it might not be good.
[20:02:27] <archivist_ub> I do some flimsy parting sometimes, I tend to expect to clean up after to get flat
[20:03:11] <archivist_ub> but I get few problems if using a sturdy Sandvik parting tool
[20:04:18] <cradek> I need to get some indexable grooving, parting, threading stuff. but it is SO expensive
[20:05:04] <archivist_ub> very true, but some is really good
[20:06:41] <archivist_ub> there a small company over here selling a modded Sandvik for modellers at a reasonable price, thats what we use
[20:11:20] <archivist_ub> also is a blade type tool check its vertical, look for tell tale skuff mark on bottom side of blade if touching the work
[20:11:51] <cradek> good idea
[20:19:44] <tomp> while looking for puma info, found http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~martin/PUMA/index.html#PUMA which mentioned an open source QNX at SF http://sourceforge.net/projects/openqnx
[20:20:28] <tomp> qnx is an older rtos
[20:23:32] <SWPadnos> YAMKOS
[20:23:41] <SWPadnos> (yet another micro-kernel OS)
[20:24:29] <SWPadnos> note that the openqnx project seems to be for QNX-based apps, not developing a QNX replacement
[20:25:19] <tomp> oh, the pumas used quadrature encoders ( yes sin/cos, yes quadrature) >and< pots for position ( suspenders and a belt )
[20:26:01] <tomp> SWPadnos: right, apps, not os, i was missled by the name
[20:26:17] <SWPadnos> heh - me too at first :)
[20:29:00] <tomp> slashdot sez ""QNX has announced that effective immediately, the company will open the source code to its QNX embedded, RTOS, microkernel operating system. "
[20:29:03] <tomp> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/12/1426229
[20:29:14] <SWPadnos> cool
[20:29:36] <tomp> "from the does-anybody-even-use-qnx-anyway dept" :0
[20:29:41] <SWPadnos> YARTPETP
[20:29:52] <SWPadnos> (yet another reason to port EMC to pthreads) :)
[20:29:58] <tomp> announced last year, so... i aint heard nothin yet
[20:30:13] <SWPadnos> for very slow values of "immediately"
[20:30:18] <tomp> pthreads? pascal psuedo code?
[20:30:26] <SWPadnos> POSIX threads
[20:31:35] <skunkworks_> yes - I think pete thought it was maybe a resolver - but I really think it is like 1000ppr but with sin/cos instead of on/off
[20:32:19] <stuste1> one of my cinci 5 axis machines uses OPENCNC on qnx, still
[20:32:24] <cradek> maybe you could hook that directly to a mesa in non-differential mode
[20:32:43] <SWPadnos> actually, use differential, but tie the other end to ground (or the signal midpoint)
[20:32:48] <cradek> I think there RC filter and hysteresis
[20:32:52] <tomp> i still havent found out if it's tiks per rev or interpolated sin/cos against some divider
[20:32:56] <cradek> there is an
[20:33:01] <skunkworks_> each servo has a 116 to 1 gear box to run the poteniometers.
[20:33:17] <cradek> bizarre
[20:33:30] <SWPadnos> sounds like a poor-mans absolute encoder
[20:33:34] <skunkworks_> yes
[20:33:38] <SWPadnos> that's the turns counter
[20:33:57] <SWPadnos> just hope it doesn't stop near a boundary :)
[20:35:05] <stuste1> cradek: I think you will find it frustrating to try to part off straight (as straight as you can face). It will be a never ending battle. plan to face the material after part off.
[20:35:39] <skunkworks_> all it really says is 'the incremental encoders are mounted on the shaft of each motor and provide position change and velocity signals for the servo system'
[20:36:07] <cradek> stuste1: I'm sure you are right, I will keep it in mind.
[20:41:52] <archivist_ub> I must learn ./configure crap so I can poke the camvox guy into fixing a simple bug, I need to know how make files get made by it ie which is the source make file
[20:44:13] <alex_joni> usually there's a configure.in which generates the ./configure
[20:44:20] <alex_joni> that is done by running autoconf
[20:44:34] <alex_joni> but depending on how it's set up you might also have an automake, etc
[20:45:01] <billy_kid2> hi
[20:45:02] <archivist_ub> he has a typo and Im trying to find the real source of the error
[20:45:20] <alex_joni> grep is your friend
[20:45:25] <alex_joni> hi billy_kid2
[20:45:38] <billy_kid2> hi alex
[20:45:58] <archivist_ub> alex_joni, I can find with grep, but which generates which
[20:47:02] <alex_joni> archivist_ub: go by size :D
[20:47:09] <alex_joni> the culprit is the smallest file
[20:47:21] <archivist_ub> Makefile.am?
[20:47:24] <alex_joni> yup
[20:47:44] <alex_joni> archivist_ub: the other option is to look into CVS/SVN/whatever
[20:47:45] <archivist_ub> I just changed it and that did not cure it grrrr
[20:47:51] <alex_joni> the generated files are not there
[20:47:59] <alex_joni> no, you need to rebuild the other files to cure it
[20:48:00] <archivist_ub> ah ok
[20:48:12] <alex_joni> automake/autoconf/automumble
[20:48:22] <alex_joni> just like you did the first time
[20:48:33] <archivist_ub> should a ./configure do that
[20:50:14] <alex_joni> archivist_ub: there should be a file called INSTALLING
[20:50:22] <alex_joni> read the fine print :P
[20:50:35] <archivist_ub> what read !!!
[20:50:38] <alex_joni> I think you need to run automake first
[20:50:44] <SWPadnos> haha - great customer comment at NewEgg: "Cons: Mine came with a short and caught on fire, but they replaced it and now it works fine (probably just a fluke)."
[20:51:05] <alex_joni> what was that?
[20:51:11] <SWPadnos> a motherboard
[20:51:29] <alex_joni> they do make rather nice measuring equipment though
[20:51:40] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:51:40] <alex_joni> even if bad mobos :P
[20:51:51] <SWPadnos> never seen a fluke catch on fire
[20:52:46] <skunkworks_> I saw one stop working after a student tried to measure the 'current' from a wall outlet
[20:53:01] <skunkworks_> brand new too
[20:53:09] <skunkworks_> (more than the fuse)
[20:53:09] <alex_joni> fuse test?
[20:53:14] <alex_joni> ah crap
[20:53:39] <skunkworks_> second year electronic student... scary
[20:53:45] <alex_joni> indeed
[20:53:55] <alex_joni> they don't teach kids anything these days
[20:54:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni says sounding rather old
[20:54:21] <skunkworks_> yes - though some people seem to be as dumb as a box of rocks
[20:54:34] <alex_joni> is that better than an empty box?
[20:54:44] <skunkworks_> more wieght
[20:54:49] <skunkworks_> weight?
[20:54:51] <skunkworks_> ;)
[20:54:59] <archivist_ub> I bought a cheap multimeter after I asked the salesman if the Frequency measuring could handle mains (240 v) he tried it, it worked!
[20:55:37] <alex_joni> well.. it should :)
[20:56:33] <skunkworks_> when I was a kid I had a cheap radio shack dmm that ran on watch batteries. Fit in a shirt pocket. I kept forgeting to shut it off though and it always had dead batteries.
[20:57:23] <billy_kid2> someone can help me about spindle override?
[20:57:41] <billy_kid2> fruom jog pendant
[20:57:46] <billy_kid2> from
[20:57:49] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: ask away, if someone knows how to help you they will
[20:58:15] <billy_kid2> i have a mpg pendant
[20:58:15] <alex_joni> what kind of jog pendant?
[20:58:24] <alex_joni> encoder like?
[20:58:29] <billy_kid2> yes
[20:58:35] <billy_kid2> works fine
[20:58:37] <alex_joni> going to parport?
[20:58:42] <billy_kid2> yes
[20:58:59] <billy_kid2> i use encoder for feedrate
[20:59:24] <billy_kid2> linksp pend-counts => halui.feed-override.counts
[20:59:25] <billy_kid2> linkpp mux2.0.out => halui.feed-override.scale
[20:59:46] <billy_kid2> it works
[20:59:49] <alex_joni> eww.. don't use linkpp
[21:00:03] <alex_joni> use 'net' instead
[21:00:10] <alex_joni> net name pin1 pin2 ...
[21:00:12] <billy_kid2> spindle override not works :-(
[21:00:28] <alex_joni> does it work from the GUI?
[21:00:44] <billy_kid2> from axis bar yes
[21:01:35] <billy_kid2> feedrate works fine
[21:02:25] <alex_joni> so you tried changing feed-override with spindle-override?
[21:02:48] <billy_kid2> yes
[21:03:01] <billy_kid2> halui.spindle-override.counts
[21:03:26] <billy_kid2> halui.spindle-override.scale
[21:03:29] <alex_joni> did you set halui.spindle-override.scale ?
[21:03:41] <alex_joni> can you pastebin a halcmd show of the above?
[21:03:43] <billy_kid2> 0.01
[21:03:52] <billy_kid2> by mux2
[21:04:09] <alex_joni> I suspect the mux because of 2 buttons you have?
[21:04:12] <alex_joni> slow/fast?
[21:04:28] <billy_kid2> 0
[21:04:32] <billy_kid2> 0.01
[21:04:38] <alex_joni> yeah.. very slow/slow :D
[21:04:40] <billy_kid2> 0 for disable....
[21:04:47] <alex_joni> right
[21:04:53] <billy_kid2> i try 10
[21:04:56] <billy_kid2> 100
[21:05:04] <billy_kid2> not
[21:05:05] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: can you connect it how you think is right.. and then get a halcmd show ?
[21:05:09] <billy_kid2> worrk
[21:06:06] <billy_kid2> setp mux2.0.in0 0
[21:06:06] <billy_kid2> setp mux2.0.in1 0.01
[21:06:06] <billy_kid2> linkps mux2.0.sel <= mpg-feed
[21:06:48] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: did you set MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE and MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE in the ini?
[21:07:40] <alex_joni> if you don't set them, by default you get 1.0 for each of them
[21:08:00] <alex_joni> then you will only be able to adjust between 1.0 and 1.0 (which is no change ;)
[21:08:17] <alex_joni> it should be in [DISPLAY] ..
[21:08:50] <billy_kid2> :-(
[21:09:17] <billy_kid2> my file ini have only feedrate
[21:09:21] <billy_kid2> min max
[21:09:32] <alex_joni> add some for spindle
[21:09:58] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BDISPLAY%5D-Section
[21:09:58] <billy_kid2> in axis i adjust spindle vel
[21:10:06] <alex_joni> sounds like a bug to me
[21:10:07] <billy_kid2> from bar
[21:10:30] <alex_joni> btw, there is no min override for feedrate
[21:11:29] <billy_kid2> i try now
[21:11:50] <billy_kid2> thanks
[21:13:00] <alex_joni> np, maybe the halui docs are not clear enough
[21:16:07] <alex_joni> so, I guess it's working now?
[21:16:15] <LawrenceG> cradek, http://imagebin.ca/view/u11asXn.html finally finished radio project
[21:17:12] <archivist_ub> they didnt have crimps in 1920
[21:17:29] <alex_joni> heh
[21:17:31] <LawrenceG> cradek, http://imagebin.ca/view/3iFDcau.html ... front panel by emc2!
[21:17:44] <alex_joni> or cameras
[21:17:51] <alex_joni> digital ones I mean
[21:18:25] <alex_joni> LawrenceG: is that "Regen" as in rain?
[21:18:42] <archivist_ub> Regenerative
[21:18:54] <alex_joni> ah
[21:20:04] <archivist_ub> I was reading about the inventor of the technique the other day
[21:20:40] <LawrenceG> 1920's design, 1940's/50's/6-'s parts
[21:21:11] <LawrenceG> it works a treat....
[21:22:34] <archivist_ub> do I see parts of a tek scope in there tag strips?
[21:22:52] <LawrenceG> yup... class
[21:23:27] <archivist_ub> I hope you used the proper silver loaded solder then :)
[21:25:29] <LawrenceG> it didnt have any.... but I did use a special solder used for surface mount stuff.. loaded with Bismuth or something... left as much of the original solder as I could
[21:26:06] <LawrenceG> coild was wound on abs sewer pipe
[21:26:26] <archivist_ub> I remember seeing a note in a tek manual years ago
[21:27:18] <LawrenceG> yea... there used to be a coil of solder inside most of the old tube scopes for use with the terminals
[21:27:22] <archivist_ub> last valve/tube radio I made used an HL2
[21:28:10] <billy_kid2> thank alex spindle override work :)
[21:28:37] <LawrenceG> ?? HL2 shows up half life 2 doom games
[21:30:11] <archivist_ub> yup I know but its an old 30's/40's valve
[21:30:25] <archivist_ub> directly heated 2 volt cathode
[21:31:56] <LawrenceG> I have never built a regen before.... its cool... it phase locks to the incoming carrier when in the oscillate mode (lets one use a freq counter to see where one is tuned)
[21:44:20] <tomp> LawrenceG: http://www.modernradiolabs.com/ ( as a kid, I used to buy plans from this guy, like 10c for a mimeograph of a superheterodyne... old stuff )
[21:46:42] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:46:43] <LawrenceG> tomp... cool