my apologies I am not very familiar with IRC in general
i am struggling with my CNC lathe I've built trying to get it to sync an index pulse for EMC2
yatesdr is now known as dareposte
it doesn't work
HAL doesn't see it, it doesn't do what you think when threading ... ?
i am building a TTL level circuit, but the documentation seems to be a bit unclear as to what minimum is required to sync
no i'm not that far yet
i guess the question i'm having is what sort of input is required at a minimum to sync the spindle? In the HAL it looks like it will accept any number of pulses per revolution, but from other reading it suggests only quadrature style inputs are useful
the latest (unreleased) EMC2 can use one pulse per revolution
tested with a 555 circuit to simulate an index pulse, and it looks like it would sync up and attepmt to thread
for sync you want only one pulse per revolution
that seems so easy though...
it is just that easy
you can use a single pulse (also doubles as index), or an index plus slotted wheel, or a quadrature encoder
so why do people make quadrature inputs?
otherwise, you need at least an index channel (one pulse per rev) and a counter channel (N pulses, where N is from 50 to a few hundred
you get bettter results with a higher resolution
measurably better? or theoretically better
also, for a mill you need quadrature to do rigid tapping
dunno, I don't have a lathe :)
the amount of better depends on your spindle
and your patience
if you are taking heavy cuts on a underpowered machine, so it slows down at the start of the cut, 1ppr will have problems
for threading I am sure it is measurably better - good threads need good accuracy
if you do 100 spring passes, the threads will probably be just as good with one PPR
because it won't know about the slow-down until a full rev later
that makes sense
so the PID loop in EMC2 uses all data available then, and not just the index pulse for threading
so "measurably bette, unles syou compensate for your weak machine/feedback setup" :)
1PPR is only in the latest rev - it was just added recently
(it's theoretically worse, so we didn't really care to add it for a long time)
ahh that may explain some of the reading I had done
why work to take a step backwards, I always say
it does simplify it a great deal
and simplicity is to be valued as well in my opinion
yes, you can work around the lack of feedback, so if that's your thing, start compiling :)
(note that jmkasunich mentioned that it's in the not-yet-released version)
my spindle is driven off a VFD, so it might be viable in this situation as compared to an asynch motor
or at least I was speculating that it might be
if you have good speed control, and you don't take too heavy a cut, it should be fine
jmkasunich: SWPadnos: have you seen the cinci video I posted today? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn1bJ3YAQdI
I think I will try it out for kicks, do I need to pull it out of cvs?
stustev, yep - cool stuff!
dareposte, yes, check the installing wiki page - there are instructions for "building from CVS"
what are the rapids on the cinci?
that is impressive video
wow, doesn't seem that fast in the video
big table ;)
I guess "big" has a way of making things seem slower
where the needle bounced was that at the end of the motion?
they look frozen otherwise
right around 2:45ish
stustev: know any tricks for avoiding built-up edge on lathe tools
cutting drill rod with HSS
skunkworks: that is also impressive, what size bit is that?
just about the time I get everything touched off and each pass is coming out the right diameter, I get a build up and the next pass is undersize
dareposte: the blank is about 1/2" diameter at the large end
jmkasunich, hmmm. do you suppose the same thing would happen when boring aluminum?
I had a problem like that when making bearing pockets for JymmmEMC's machine
although aluminum you can run faster - usually speed helps with BUE
holes look great, do another pass (no adjustment), and they're oversize a thou or two
dareposte: the bounce is at motion reversal of one or more axes
oh, that might be spring in the boring bar
although I've gotten BUE on aluminum too
where you using cutting fluid?
coolant with some lube stuff in it, not something nice like tap-magic/Aluminum
something "lube-y" (as opposed to water based "cool-y") helps
jmkasunich: you can hone the edges to sharpen them - sorry about the delay - was showing the video to my wife
hand sprayed "as necessary" :)
for the parts I'm making today I've been using gear oil - stinky, but it usually works
unfortunately the turning tool isn't staying clean for some reason
I've honed it once or twice
can't find my fine diamond hone, so I used medium
stustev: Do you hand code for that beast?
you are cutting the hardened surface?
no, plain old drill rod
(this isn't the spindle boring project - its the bosch collets from yesterday)
you can had code for pretty complicated motion with EMC2 but no we have a couple of programming systems
I'm making unbored collets, then I'll bore them in the spindle as you suggested
the program you see is hand coded
that is wild
we use full 6dof robots at my work, and i only attempted to hand code those once, failed miserably in fact
all the rotary motion is either Axxx or Bxxx or Axxx Bxxx - the linear axes are compensated for pivot length and tool length
auto compensated or linear commands
BUE is welding - too much heat
dareposte, that's the reason why EMC2 has "pluggable" kinematics - you can set up the transforms between world coordinates (G-code) and joint space (the actual DOF of the machine), and then program the tool motion as you want
EMC2 moves the linear axes using the pivot length and tool length and keeps the programmed point (the center of the ball) in one spot
i see, very clever
my background is a bit different, but it sounds like "joint" mode with the inverse kinematics already fully constrained
or "tool" mode
emc developers on here?
you define both forward and inverse kinematics, so EMC can both command new "poses" for each move, and so it can determine actual position from joint feedback
you can define only one, if you choose
stustev: too much heat? should I lower the surface speed?
yes or MUCH more coolant - try plain water
I'm only at 57 FPM right now, its hard to believe that is too fast
no lubricity but will cool good - just a thought - lubricity is why water based coolants have emulsified oils in them
do you have an insert cutter?
I can try slower, but I can't really do water based coolant or flood - this machine isn't set up for that, it gets everywhere
not for this, I'm using HSS
if you go too slow chip formation suffers and you will get that
do you have WD-40? you need something that wets the surface well and quick
heh - stinky everywhere then ;)
I can try that (been using gear oil, so wd40 is NOT stinkier)
oh, no indeed
I think he is trying to take only .001 or .002 of the diameter
whats the rake angle on your tool bit?
rake angle is somewhat positive, not sure (hand ground bit)
very small tool nose radius - a very sharp edge
probably 10 degrees or so
its as sharp as I can get it
for a thin cut like that you might try very sharp positive rake angle, it will lower the cutting stresses
which prevents chip welding
regarding depth - ranges from 0.020" to 0.003"
well, my goal was to make four of these collets, and I've finished the turning part on #3
so other than experimenting with cutting fluid or speed, there isn't a lot that I want to change now
oh, honing, I can do that
dareposte: jmkasunich and SWPadnos are two of the EMC2 developers
I'm better at programming than machining ;-)
and don't forget stustev, if you have a big-ass cincinatti mill ;)
(I hope so anyway)
heh - I know I am, but that's because I know that I know little about machining :)
i don't consider myself a developer - I am a user
you seem to be developing just fine, thank you
if anybody wants a machining reference, I have gotten great great use out of a $4.50 copy of "technology of machine tools" published some time in the 80's, available super cheap from used book sellers
I very nearly bought "The Art of Hand Scraping" (or close) a couple of days ago
wow that must be an old one
I like to know what I'm missing by using automated machines :)
yeah, from the late 1800s or early 1900s I think
the CNC section in my text makes for interesting reading these days
don't laugh - a few of the folks here haev tape readers (mostly defunct)
and emc probably supports it ;-)
I just retired one a week or two ago
fortunately it didn't work, or knowing me, I'd be punching tapes now
I have a punch to donate too
use a CNC to punch the tapes
talk about efficient
ISBN# is 0-07-035563-0
a cnc tape puncher?
can it punch tapes to program itself?
yeah - self-replicating machines ;)
wouldn't that be funny
machine tools can replicate themselves - other machinery cannot do that
luckily, they still need some human help
I saw a cool production line with a couple of EDM machines, then about 6 lathe/mill machines and a robot to feed them
cast blanks go in one end, the finished parts come out the other
a casting robot too? I saw one of those once
nobody touches them during the process
cool, I am getting bores and outside diameters within .0002 without much trouble. the X screw is amazing.
no, I think that was in another room
the turret and tool holders are very stout.
I may try to have the Z screw/nut rebuilt. I wonder what it costs.
none of the places (with websites I found) will give you any kind of quote without you sending the screw
kind of hard to know who to pick then
It is likely any of them will do you a good job.
they don't know if larger balls will do the trick or they may have to rebuild the whole thing
have you had any done?
I have had one built - for the Y axis on the cinci - I forget how much
this would be "a little" smaller - comparing the price would not be meaningful anyway
that's why I haven't tried to mention price - no way to know
do you remember who did it? (and was it right?)
yes it was right - that was in 1998 - I don't remember - I think in Michigan
how much play do you have?
when I took the cover off the nut, what looked like water poured out of where oil should have been
is the play concentrated in one area? (probably)
no I think it is everywhere. but I should test more
it probably was water - from the coolant
if it is wear, it is probably pretty even. to change tools you have to move pretty much to the far end.
if it is everywhere you can buy bigger balls and refit it yourself
hmm, that could be fun to try
and by fun I mean "extremely stressful"
I tried it with the cinci screw - thought I had it - it was very tight until I move the Y axis with it
you'll know if it didn't work when it binds somewhere
the stress seated the balls deeper and it was looser than when I started
if I could put it back together like original, nothing lost except time
it is always fun to tear something apart to find out how it works or why it doesn't
oh I see, it would have to be reground to match the new balls
for a heavy machine anyway
yes I might try it. thanks for the idea.
I think with a little more practice I could refit a ball screw - I would work a lot more to seat the balls
would you have to increase the size a couple times maybe?
i just repacked a ball nut tonight and it was disaster
the cinci's have a split nut - a spacer in between them - I have thought a hydraulic cylinder would be good - variable preload
dareposte: my result exactly
hm, if this has that, maybe I can adjust it out
I will study it more.
bed time gentlemen - my wife has projects for me to complete before Friday - or I cannot go to IMTS this weekend :) HA! I am going anyway! She can't tell ME what to do!
thanks for your help stustev
it would be neat to go to IMTS sometime
stustev: just to let you know - I dropped the speed from 57 SFPM to 30 SFPM, and the built-up edge problem pretty much went away (very minor buildup on one cut)
I would have never tried going slower - I know when you are using carbide, you go faster to avoid BUE
hey skunkworks ... you still up and around??
maybe skunkworks will read the log. I installed the new smi.ko module and the latency-test got lots better. Base thread is still a bit wobbly but
servo thread look dot on.
Hello, can somebody point me to low-cost stepper drivers, please? 3-axis mill, bi-polar, 2A/phase is sufficient. Maybe half and quarter steps.
Some diy stuff on pminmo.com
Thanks. Which costs must I estimate for ready assembled ones?
I am simply too busy.
Seen gecko drives? I used gecko g203v but have only done one machine ever. I've had no problems whatsoever
What kind of mill do you have?
Oh, it is actually an engraving machine (Gravograph VX100). With some little adaptions it can be converted into a normal 3-axes mill. A very rugged piece of hardware, but the electronics was damaged. So I got it very cheap.
Cool , nothing beats very cheap.
Yepp. I built now stepper drives according to the L297 of pminmo.com, but if I adjust to more than ~0.75A, the chopper stops and the chip explodes. Well, 0.75A is still enough for PCB and plastic milling, but if not, I'll take ready made drives.
hm, my machine has started stalling in homing again, but "I didn't change anything"
yours is the plastic frame one ?
teperature change? plastic can moce a lot
I still get a few stalls due to stiffness, my x is a little fussy and Z needs a better screw arrangement
it may be a little bit cooler in here now than a week ago, but no more than 5 degrees F -- it's in the basement so the tempreature swings are fairly modest
I went of the end on my X the other day and the taper adjuster moved to stiffen it
I also suffer from swarf getting on the slides, that affects friction and play
only by using the things that little problems like this show up
"X" is above the table, so it's not swarf
well pcb dust flies :)
and the "dust" is nice jagged glass fibers
I made a small engine where dust will seize the piston in the bore
I turned up the current on X (I had it at 50% of rated, now at 70% of rated) and the problem has gone from 1-in-3 to less than 1-in-20
same on "Y" -- so it's "fixed", but what changed?
likely friction, but with steppers they do need to be driven near rating
another one to catch the unwary with steppers, is when first built its tight and damps the stepper resonance, when free later the stepper resonance is worse
I understand that running under rated current will lower my torque, but despite that I had spent a lot of time running at these Vref and inifile settings without trouble ..
oh well, I need to head into the office instead of playing with this
.. it's just been bugging me all night
work!! I hate it
talk to you later
back to ebay .....
got a ball screw and nut this morning
and working on http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200248687996
screw is item 200248881852
build a bigger better machine :)
[#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/,
wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
logger_emc: im ok with that
I'm logging. I don't understand 'im ok with that', Vq^. Try /msg logger_emc help
cradek_ is now known as cradek
Once you've instated a canned cycle, however, you must not place blank lines in the program. Remember that canned cycles are modal--a hole will be machined in every command, and the machine will interpret a blank line as a command. [on fanuc]
alex_joni : hello, did that dig64 io card arrive yet?
sounds painful cradek
yeah, seems nasty to me too
in the incremental mode .... Z becomes the distance from the R plane to the hole bottom (Z will always be negative, and if the R plane is 0.1 inch above the work surface, Z's value will always be equal to the hole depth plus 0.1 inch).
but on this page there is reason to believe that emc does g91 cycles the same way fanuc does
but, the example he gives right after this paragraph seems wrong
[15:51:17] <cradek> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3101/is_5_79/ai_n27014836
hm, if preview of rapids is turned off, I can still select the invisible lines
I wonder if that's a feature
cradek: good question
cradek: probably not
pjm: yes it did
thanks a lot ;)
still trying to find time to scavange for an ISA PC
Hello All, I have a question to ask. Does EMC support the use of USB - Parallel port adapters? Just I have a laptop I wish to use but it does not have a para port.
you need a machine with an onboard parport, or one on a PCI card
USB devices cannot be controlled in realtime so they are unsuitable for the kind of machine control EMC does
Hi Cradek .... It's been a long time ... That's a shame thought it would be a cheap option.
Would a PCMCIA card be sufficient?
Alex has tried that, I don't recall if it worked or not
laptops are generally bad at realtime performance anyway, because of all their power saving stuff
SWPadnos: do you still have the url for that $50 motherboard/ram/cpu kit?
right - PCMCIA may work, but the laptop is probably no good :)
newegg - hold on a sec
[19:33:51] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135060
I see .... No problem I stick to my old AMD box
oops - that's the MB+CPU only, the one with memory is $10 more, but out of stock
I see the LiveCD is running Ubuntu 8. Has there been any more advances especially with regards to the pluto board?
SWPadnos: I found the bean pills :)
did it turn out to be the Phase II stuff?
yep, found it a local health food store
find out in a few days if it works...
I don't think it should be used as a dietary supplement - more like beano :)
ie, use it when you need to eat, and the only thing around is a sandwich
* BigJohnT nods
ubuntu 6 and 8 run the same emc2 code - there is no difference
Just took a look at the change logs appears there has been quite a lot work on the pluto since it was introduced on into the official release.
I have one running my sherline lathe. It works great with my computer but not with some others I've tried.
I have not run into a computer that won't run the pluto.. yet. (that sounds a little confusing..)
I had problems with one of the axis last time I tried it on my Denford Starmill. It would only work on 2 axis but not three.
that is a different problem then. maybe your pluto is bad.
This was with steppers not servos if that makes any difference?
yeah totally different. jeff is using pluto-step for his desktop machine now.
I think it was a bug as when one moved in one of the axis the z axis would also show movement within EMC2
maybe you should try again. I am sure it is working now.
about all you can do is try it again
I cant remember the exact error but someone else had the same issue and posted to the cnc forum. Yeah I am keen to try again. I've been out of the game for a while due to house move and not having anywhere to use the cnc mill and lathe. Just completed building a small workshop and have finaly got power so hoping to get it installed shortly. :-)
any tricks to getting a straight part other than making sure the tool is in straight?
in what way are you getting "bent"
away from the headstock a bit
Ive had a number of reasons
from the tool center hieght, to spring in the work
and machine stiffness or just worn out
I don't think I'm getting spring, I'm parting at .001/rev in 1" aluminum, it looks very gentle
I'll check the height again, but I was pretty careful
are parting flatness, thats tool spring and bias in the grind at the tip
or a dull corner
hm maybe it's the grind. it is a new tool but it might not be good.
I do some flimsy parting sometimes, I tend to expect to clean up after to get flat
but I get few problems if using a sturdy Sandvik parting tool
I need to get some indexable grooving, parting, threading stuff. but it is SO expensive
very true, but some is really good
there a small company over here selling a modded Sandvik for modellers at a reasonable price, thats what we use
also is a blade type tool check its vertical, look for tell tale skuff mark on bottom side of blade if touching the work
while looking for puma info, found http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~martin/PUMA/index.html#PUMA
which mentioned an open source QNX at SF http://sourceforge.net/projects/openqnx
qnx is an older rtos
(yet another micro-kernel OS)
note that the openqnx project seems to be for QNX-based apps, not developing a QNX replacement
oh, the pumas used quadrature encoders ( yes sin/cos, yes quadrature) >and< pots for position ( suspenders and a belt )
SWPadnos: right, apps, not os, i was missled by the name
heh - me too at first :)
slashdot sez ""QNX has announced that effective immediately, the company will open the source code to its QNX embedded, RTOS, microkernel operating system. "
[20:29:03] <tomp> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/12/1426229
"from the does-anybody-even-use-qnx-anyway dept" :0
(yet another reason to port EMC to pthreads) :)
announced last year, so... i aint heard nothin yet
for very slow values of "immediately"
pthreads? pascal psuedo code?
yes - I think pete thought it was maybe a resolver - but I really think it is like 1000ppr but with sin/cos instead of on/off
one of my cinci 5 axis machines uses OPENCNC on qnx, still
maybe you could hook that directly to a mesa in non-differential mode
actually, use differential, but tie the other end to ground (or the signal midpoint)
I think there RC filter and hysteresis
i still havent found out if it's tiks per rev or interpolated sin/cos against some divider
there is an
each servo has a 116 to 1 gear box to run the poteniometers.
sounds like a poor-mans absolute encoder
that's the turns counter
just hope it doesn't stop near a boundary :)
cradek: I think you will find it frustrating to try to part off straight (as straight as you can face). It will be a never ending battle. plan to face the material after part off.
all it really says is 'the incremental encoders are mounted on the shaft of each motor and provide position change and velocity signals for the servo system'
stuste1: I'm sure you are right, I will keep it in mind.
I must learn ./configure crap so I can poke the camvox guy into fixing a simple bug, I need to know how make files get made by it ie which is the source make file
usually there's a configure.in which generates the ./configure
that is done by running autoconf
but depending on how it's set up you might also have an automake, etc
he has a typo and Im trying to find the real source of the error
grep is your friend
alex_joni, I can find with grep, but which generates which
archivist_ub: go by size :D
the culprit is the smallest file
archivist_ub: the other option is to look into CVS/SVN/whatever
I just changed it and that did not cure it grrrr
the generated files are not there
no, you need to rebuild the other files to cure it
just like you did the first time
should a ./configure do that
archivist_ub: there should be a file called INSTALLING
read the fine print :P
what read !!!
I think you need to run automake first
haha - great customer comment at NewEgg: "Cons: Mine came with a short and caught on fire, but they replaced it and now it works fine (probably just a fluke)."
what was that?
they do make rather nice measuring equipment though
even if bad mobos :P
never seen a fluke catch on fire
I saw one stop working after a student tried to measure the 'current' from a wall outlet
brand new too
(more than the fuse)
second year electronic student... scary
they don't teach kids anything these days
* alex_joni says sounding rather old
yes - though some people seem to be as dumb as a box of rocks
is that better than an empty box?
I bought a cheap multimeter after I asked the salesman if the Frequency measuring could handle mains (240 v) he tried it, it worked!
well.. it should :)
when I was a kid I had a cheap radio shack dmm that ran on watch batteries. Fit in a shirt pocket. I kept forgeting to shut it off though and it always had dead batteries.
someone can help me about spindle override?
fruom jog pendant
billy_kid2: ask away, if someone knows how to help you they will
i have a mpg pendant
what kind of jog pendant?
going to parport?
i use encoder for feedrate
linksp pend-counts => halui.feed-override.counts
linkpp mux2.0.out => halui.feed-override.scale
eww.. don't use linkpp
use 'net' instead
net name pin1 pin2 ...
spindle override not works :-(
does it work from the GUI?
from axis bar yes
feedrate works fine
so you tried changing feed-override with spindle-override?
did you set halui.spindle-override.scale ?
can you pastebin a halcmd show of the above?
I suspect the mux because of 2 buttons you have?
yeah.. very slow/slow :D
0 for disable....
i try 10
billy_kid2: can you connect it how you think is right.. and then get a halcmd show ?
setp mux2.0.in0 0
setp mux2.0.in1 0.01
linkps mux2.0.sel <= mpg-feed
billy_kid2: did you set MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE and MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE in the ini?
if you don't set them, by default you get 1.0 for each of them
then you will only be able to adjust between 1.0 and 1.0 (which is no change ;)
it should be in [DISPLAY] ..
my file ini have only feedrate
add some for spindle
[21:09:58] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BDISPLAY%5D-Section
in axis i adjust spindle vel
sounds like a bug to me
btw, there is no min override for feedrate
i try now
np, maybe the halui docs are not clear enough
so, I guess it's working now?
finally finished radio project
they didnt have crimps in 1920
... front panel by emc2!
digital ones I mean
LawrenceG: is that "Regen" as in rain?
I was reading about the inventor of the technique the other day
1920's design, 1940's/50's/6-'s parts
it works a treat....
do I see parts of a tek scope in there tag strips?
I hope you used the proper silver loaded solder then :)
it didnt have any.... but I did use a special solder used for surface mount stuff.. loaded with Bismuth or something... left as much of the original solder as I could
coild was wound on abs sewer pipe
I remember seeing a note in a tek manual years ago
yea... there used to be a coil of solder inside most of the old tube scopes for use with the terminals
last valve/tube radio I made used an HL2
thank alex spindle override work :)
?? HL2 shows up half life 2 doom games
yup I know but its an old 30's/40's valve
directly heated 2 volt cathode
I have never built a regen before.... its cool... it phase locks to the incoming carrier when in the oscillate mode (lets one use a freq counter to see where one is tuned)
( as a kid, I used to buy plans from this guy, like 10c for a mimeograph of a superheterodyne... old stuff )
good night all