#emc | Logs for 2008-08-24

[01:32:59] <jmkasunich_> woo-hoo - no more blue chips for me, I'm making yellow ones now
[01:33:38] <jmkasunich_> 400 SFM, 0.005 DOC, 0.004 feed per rev, hardened steel
[01:33:49] <jmkasunich_> mirror finish
[01:36:26] <stustev> the tool is the insert boring bar?
[01:36:40] <jmkasunich_> no, the boring bar was to make the steady
[01:37:00] <jmkasunich_> I'm now running one of the spindles in the steady
[01:37:08] <jmkasunich_> just taking some experimental facing cuts
[01:37:21] <jmkasunich_> boring comes after I get comfortable with facing
[01:37:57] <jmkasunich_> unfortunately this part has lots of little holes in it - so just about everything I do will be an interrupted cut
[01:38:37] <stustev> the spindle is a lathe spindle?
[01:38:49] <jmkasunich_> one of those HSK spindles that I want to re-work
[01:39:13] <stustev> yes - but you are using it as a lathe or are you milling?
[01:39:41] <a-l-p-h-a> anyone ever made a smoking pipe?
[01:39:53] <JymmmEMC> a-l-p-h-a: smoking what?
[01:39:53] <stustev> as in tobacco?
[01:40:10] <a-l-p-h-a> Jymm, you know I'm Canadian.
[01:40:17] <jmkasunich_> I'm modifying the spindle, in the lathe
[01:40:22] <JymmmEMC> a-l-p-h-a: Oh, pot... long ago
[01:40:40] <a-l-p-h-a> I got a few designs I'm curious in trying... http://www.smokingpipes.com.cn/viewproduct.php?productid=577
[01:40:57] <a-l-p-h-a> change the end to a square or hex head... to it could lay flat.
[01:41:03] <a-l-p-h-a> to=so
[01:41:37] <JymmmEMC> a-l-p-h-a: make the whole thing hex
[01:41:56] <jmkasunich_> pic of setup in a minute
[01:41:59] <stustev> you are facing the end of the spindle - using the steady rest you built
[01:42:03] <jmkasunich_> yes
[01:42:18] <stustev> the picture finally came into focus
[01:42:18] <JymmmEMC> a-l-p-h-a: spiral the grooves
[01:42:24] <jmkasunich_> heh
[01:42:33] <jmkasunich_> biab - dog is whining
[01:42:34] <a-l-p-h-a> Jymm, that would be cool... but I don't have a threading attachment to be able to do so.
[01:43:03] <stustev> can I use that excuse? my wife is calling
[01:48:57] <jmkasunich_> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/spindle-facing-2580.jpg
[01:49:05] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[01:49:51] <jmkasunich> question for anyone who has done any hard turning (or other turning with carbide for that matter)
[01:50:05] <jmkasunich> right now I've done test passes at 0.005 DOC and 0.004 feed/rev
[01:50:18] <jmkasunich> if I want to get more agressive, which should I increase
[01:54:03] <stustev> I have no experience with hard turning - I would think if you have parameters that work and give you the finish you need you should not try to fix it. If I were going to try to get it faster speed is the parameter I would try first. DOC and feed are the parameters that load the tool. Inserts can take a lot more heat than impact especially if the heat of the cut is in the chips.
[01:55:22] <stustev> interrupted cuts are the killer here
[01:55:46] <jmkasunich> just for grins I tried cutting coming out - that gives a very shallow entry angle, thin wide chip
[01:55:56] <jmkasunich> I thought it would be bad, but it cut nicely
[01:55:56] <cradek> what sfm?
[01:56:32] <jmkasunich> about 300-350, varies with radius
[01:56:36] <stustev> that should help on the interrupted cut
[01:56:55] <jmkasunich> stustev: yeah, it sort of spans the hole
[01:57:08] <jmkasunich> I was afraid the chip would be too thin and it would start rubbing
[01:57:20] <cradek> yay, I got Z feedback
[01:57:29] <stustev> must be a good solid setup or it would rub and not cut
[01:57:53] <jmkasunich> did you see the pic?
[01:58:07] <jmkasunich> I got some metal there
[01:58:08] <stustev> yes - the diaper is to keep chips out?
[01:58:16] <jmkasunich> yeah, protecting the back bearing pari
[01:58:18] <jmkasunich> pair
[01:58:39] <stustev> looks solid - you never can tell though
[01:59:16] <cradek> ah, neat, I didn't read back
[02:00:37] <jmkasunich> there is definitely some flex - I repeated the cut 3 times without moving Z, and it cut everytime
[02:02:07] <stustev> you got Z feedback but no read back - what is read back?
[02:02:28] <cradek> looking back at the conversation here (to see that url)
[02:02:28] <jmkasunich> he didn't read back in the IRC channel to see what we were talking about
[02:02:40] <stustev> Oh
[02:03:02] <stustev> cradek: good evening
[02:05:21] <stustev> can I configure with --enable-run-in-place and --enable-simulator at the same time?
[02:06:36] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:09:17] <stustev> I should have asked the question different. Will it corrupt anything when I do that?
[02:09:21] <jmkasunich> upped the speed to about 450 FPM, DOC 0.002, feed 0.0035 per rev, cutting nice (cutting on the out pass only)
[02:09:32] <jmkasunich> RIP shouldn't touch anything else
[02:11:10] <stustev> with the DOC and feed less you will have less pressure on the setup - the chips should turn blue when you cut - that would be what I would shoot for - no coolant either
[02:11:27] <jmkasunich> lol - I'm way past blue
[02:11:33] <jmkasunich> chips are coming off red to yellow
[02:12:56] <stustev> that sounds as if you are fast enough - I cannot be sure as I have no GOOD experience with hard turning - the only hard turning I have done is to try to remove the work/heat hardened areas after a tool has broken
[02:13:36] <SWPadnos> that sounds hard
[02:14:07] <stustev> I changed the emcmodule.cc and the axis.py
[02:14:56] <stustev> after compile the preview changed but not what I wanted - this is only the first try - the B axis command moved the A axis display - hopefully it will get better
[02:16:04] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/hot-chips-2582.jpg
[02:17:42] <stustev> HOT - be careful - when those chips land on skin they do not bounce off!
[02:18:01] <SWPadnos> nomex overcoats help
[02:18:59] <stustev> the flying chip will find the ONLY open skin - it's a law
[02:19:15] <jmkasunich> they are very very fine chips - they don't fly far
[02:19:45] <toastydeath> hahaha
[02:20:01] <toastydeath> also is that ceramic/cbn?
[02:20:07] <jmkasunich> no, carbide
[02:20:09] <toastydeath> or should i scroll up
[02:20:12] <toastydeath> impressive
[02:20:32] <jmkasunich> its one of some inserts that my dad gave me - quite a few years old'
[02:20:41] <mozmck> I think your carbide won't last long like that, but I'm not completely sure.
[02:20:45] <jmkasunich> there were some ceramics in there, but I don't think this is one of them
[02:20:51] <toastydeath> did it last
[02:20:59] <jmkasunich> so far so good
[02:21:04] <toastydeath> a+
[02:21:09] <jmkasunich> total cutting time is probalby only a minute or two
[02:21:22] <jmkasunich> I'm still in the "make one pass, change something" phase
[02:21:42] <jmkasunich> I noticed some chipping on the top early on (with a loupe)
[02:21:45] <toastydeath> i don't know much about the older high temp carbides, so i'm not sure what kind of tool life one should expect up there
[02:21:56] <toastydeath> that's unusual
[02:22:01] <toastydeath> chipping?
[02:22:04] <jmkasunich> it hasn't gotten any worse since I stopped doing in-feed cuts, now I cut coming out
[02:22:32] <toastydeath> hmm
[02:22:42] <toastydeath> still.. chipping?
[02:22:45] <toastydeath> that's weird, man
[02:22:46] <jmkasunich> chipping = tiny flakes of carbide missing from the top of the cutter
[02:22:55] <toastydeath> on the edge or a little in
[02:22:55] <jmkasunich> this is an interrupted cut
[02:22:57] <toastydeath> oh
[02:22:59] <toastydeath> nvm
[02:23:18] <stustev> edge chipping that you need a loupe to see is probably microwelding. Something in the part is similar to the tool material
[02:23:19] <jmkasunich> look closely at the end of the part in this pic: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/spindle-facing-2580.jpg
[02:23:23] <jmkasunich> see all the little holes
[02:23:47] <toastydeath> ohhhh
[02:23:58] <jmkasunich> and the notch on the outside? there are two of those, and 6 holes
[02:24:05] <toastydeath> oh snap these are the spindles you got
[02:24:07] <toastydeath> that's awesome
[02:24:30] <jmkasunich> finally got the steady made, this is my first experimental cutting
[02:25:00] <jmkasunich> so far I've taken 0.047 off that raised part on the end
[02:25:49] <jmkasunich> up to 0.003 DOC - it takes about 5 spring passes to stop cutting when I stop advancing the tool
[02:25:56] <toastydeath> lol
[02:27:34] <toastydeath> hey does anybody have any quick tricks to center a drill chuck on a turret lathe
[02:28:00] <toastydeath> there's a hardinge hc at work and it's got a drill chuck on it, but nobody bothered to mark where the zero is on it
[02:28:13] <toastydeath> and i don't want to indicate it because it's not worth the effort
[02:29:43] <stustev> it shouldn't take long to chuck a dowel pin in the drill chuck and dial it in
[02:29:55] <toastydeath> not fast enough
[02:30:29] <toastydeath> what i did was just poke the drill and watch the deflection
[02:30:42] <toastydeath> it worked pretty good, the hole wasn't that oversize
[02:31:10] <stustev> how fast do you want to be? how much are you willing to invest? how close do you want to be - cheaper faster better - chose two
[02:31:24] <toastydeath> uh, i'm not trying to get philosophical here dude
[02:31:50] <stustev> what is the hardinge hc?
[02:31:58] <toastydeath> huh?
[02:32:04] <toastydeath> what is it, like, a picture?
[02:32:14] <stustev> a lathe - mill?
[02:32:15] <toastydeath> http://www.machinemanuals.net/web_pages/hardinge_hc.htm
[02:32:17] <toastydeath> a lathe.
[02:33:23] <toastydeath> we keep it tooled with some common crap so you can just walk up and do quick modifications to stuff
[02:33:36] <stustev> chuck a dowel pin in the spindle - tighten the drill chuck on the dowel pin - clamp the holder in place
[02:33:54] <toastydeath> that'd work pretty well, thanks
[02:34:03] <toastydeath> better than what I did, anyway =/
[02:35:30] <stustev> you could mount a block (with a pin in it) beside the spindle - determine the distance from the spindle center - tighten the chuck on the pin - you would know how far to move the drill chuck to align with the spindle center
[02:36:24] <stustev> you would leave the block mounted at all times - could be useful for other tools also
[02:36:24] <toastydeath> that's a kind of neat idea but it's not my lathe
[02:36:46] <toastydeath> anything that was actually important i'd dial in
[02:36:54] <stustev> scratch the lathe modification :)
[02:37:19] <toastydeath> yeah i don't own any machines, just work in a machine shop
[02:38:29] <stustev> do you use the cross slides too? if you have an extra then mount the block in one of the slides
[02:38:45] <toastydeath> huh?
[02:39:19] <toastydeath> it's not that important man, i was just looking for a quick and dirty method to use that requires no effort
[02:39:45] <toastydeath> chucking some rod will work because the parts that fit in the machine almost always fit in a drill chuck, so that works
[03:28:52] <jmkasunich> interrupted cuts suck
[03:30:45] <stustev> they are UGLY
[03:31:21] <jmkasunich> where there are no interruptions, it builds up enough heat to soften the metal, then goes to town
[03:31:38] <jmkasunich> where there are interruptions, it doesn't get hot enough, and it bounces and rubs and chips the tool
[03:32:59] <stustev> very light cuts very fast rpm
[03:33:22] <jmkasunich> my last attempt was 0.003 DOC, 0.002 feed, and 1700 RPM
[03:34:06] <jmkasunich> I doubt I can go any lighter and have it still cut at all
[03:34:35] <jmkasunich> the machine just isn't tight enough
[03:35:00] <jmkasunich> there is little vibration in the steady, but the tool vibrates during the interrupted cut - the ways are just too lose
[03:35:04] <jmkasunich> loose
[03:35:49] <stustev> not enough mass - can you set some more mass on the cross slide?
[03:36:27] <jmkasunich> I could probably come up with 20 lbs or so of metal
[03:36:38] <stustev> 200 lbs or more
[03:36:42] <jmkasunich> lol
[03:36:55] <jmkasunich> not gonna happen
[03:37:10] <stustev> you need something to dampen the tool motion when it enters the cut
[03:37:20] <jmkasunich> the table is only about 6 x 16"
[03:38:45] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich thinks about grinding
[03:39:08] <stustev> cbn wheel
[03:39:11] <SWPadnos> all you need is a quart or two of mercury :)
[03:39:39] <jmkasunich> stustev shouldn't I be able to grind it with a regular wheel
[03:39:40] <stustev> or uranium
[03:39:41] <SWPadnos> Osmium would be better, but there may not be 200 pounds of it on eart
[03:39:47] <SWPadnos> h
[03:40:01] <stustev> yes - a regular wheel will do it
[03:40:28] <jmkasunich> I have some cermet boring inserts on the way, I'll try boring with them before I give up
[03:41:08] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120267949543
[03:41:13] <stustev> cbn will wear very little - the soft aluminum oxide wheel will wear a lot - you will want a soft wheel to grind the hardened spindle nose
[03:41:16] <jmkasunich> those are supposed to be good for hardened steel
[03:42:09] <jmkasunich> rare to find an ebay vendor who gives feed/speed data in the auction ;-)
[03:42:57] <stustev> will be a good test
[03:43:27] <GNieport1> Hi all, I am coding my first complicated parts. I am wondering what each of you use to get from the CAD model to cutting a part the fastest and/or easiest.
[03:44:23] <stustev> with my spindle grinding set up the cbn wheel wears not at all if it is sparking during the cut. if it is not sparking the wheel is wearing and almost not cutting anything. I only take about .0004 DOC max with it.
[03:45:38] <jmkasunich> when you do a spindle, do you just regrind the taper, or do you put an insert in?
[03:45:46] <stustev> both
[03:45:55] <stustev> depends on the spindle
[03:46:32] <stustev> I don't have 50 taper inserts so any 50 tapers I just grind the existing taper
[03:46:32] <jmkasunich> when you do the insert, how is it held in? shrunk?
[03:47:46] <stustev> I use .001/.0015 shrink fit - insert in liquid nitrogen - 2 in dia shrinks about .005 - very easy to put in
[03:48:27] <jmkasunich> assuming I can bore these things, if I take them to MT3, I'll have holes and such inside the bore - coolant, and tooling key from the old taper
[03:48:54] <jmkasunich> I'm thinking of taking them to MT4, and then inserting a section of an MT4-MT3 hardedned/ground sleeve
[03:49:08] <jmkasunich> then just finish grind the MT3 ID for concentricity - very light grind
[03:50:00] <SWPadnos> GNieport1, I suspect the answer depends on whether you're looking for "fastest/easiest for this part" or "fastest/easiest in the future"
[03:50:09] <stustev> that should work just fine
[03:50:31] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, I don't have any specific suggestions for you (I've only used TurboCad, and that only for a review)
[03:51:40] <jmkasunich> nice thing about MT is that I don't have to have the diameter perfect
[03:51:48] <jmkasunich> as long as the taper is right, it'll go
[03:51:53] <stustev> complicated is a big word with many meanings - is this a mill/turn part, lathe part, mill part, multi axis
[03:52:09] <stustev> jmk: that's right
[03:52:28] <jmkasunich> if I chill it first, with dry ice or liquid N2, then gently whack it in there and it should be in for good
[03:57:34] <GNieport1> SWPadnos: We learned Solidworks in school, and I was able to dig up an 2005 educational version to use. I have tried importing the models into both Surfcam 3 and Mastercam 9, but the tool paths have been incredibly difficult or impossible to add, as if the file conversion was faulty. I'm not sure at this point if there is any automated way to go from the 3D model to GCode. I could always export 2D models and use something like DXF to GCode.
[03:57:57] <SWPadnos> if you have infinite cash, you can experiment a bit ;)
[03:58:10] <SWPadnos> there's a SolidWorks plug-in (CAMWorks maybe)
[03:58:11] <GNieport1> I should say, automated conversion that doesn't cost $$$$$
[03:58:12] <stustev> if you chill it you shouldn't need to whack it
[03:58:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:58:24] <SWPadnos> did you export as STL?
[03:58:42] <GNieport1> SWP: That, and IGES and ProE
[03:59:05] <SWPadnos> well, there's a pretty basic, $120-ish program called STLWorks
[03:59:08] <SWPadnos> from imservice
[03:59:23] <SWPadnos> it's reasonably good, though pretty basic
[03:59:33] <SWPadnos> (I guess I've messed with that also)
[03:59:38] <GNieport1> The problem would appear to be that the Solidworks is a year or two newer than the CAM packages
[04:00:03] <SWPadnos> STLWorks will only import STL, so if SolidWorks isn't broken, it should work
[04:00:16] <GNieport1> SWP: I'll take a look at STL Works; I hope to not have to redrw each part in GCam
[04:00:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:01:11] <SWPadnos> I did a model for Bridgeport X and Y axis end bearing brackets, and STLWorks seemed to generate OK toolpaths
[04:01:35] <SWPadnos> I don't know enough to know if they sucked though (and I didn't know much about generating toolpaths or tool selection at that point either)
[04:01:48] <GNieport1> yeah, I'm not running a 5-axis, but there a lot of arcs :)
[04:02:21] <jmkasunich> stustev: I didn't mean whack it with a hammer - just put it in quickly, same as putting a chuck into a drill press
[04:03:42] <SWPadnos> I'm uploading that toolpath, so you can see some of what it can do
[04:03:53] <jmkasunich> are your cbn wheels something like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/BORAZON-CBN-MANDRELS-PLATED-500-DIAMETER_W0QQitemZ270162348747QQihZ017QQcategoryZ58198QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
[04:03:54] <GNieport1> SWPadnos, thanks
[04:04:56] <SWPadnos> sure. here it is: http://www.linuxcnc.org/dropbox/bracket1.nc
[04:05:06] <SWPadnos> I don't even know if it loads in EMC, to be honest :)
[04:07:40] <stustev> jmk: exactly
[04:17:27] <cradek> hm, the velocity loop oscillates
[04:17:38] <jmkasunich> Z?
[04:17:44] <cradek> yes
[04:18:05] <cradek> it moves fine but buzzes most of the time
[04:18:26] <SWPadnos> is the scale the same as the other axes?
[04:18:32] <cradek> you tune it by changing resistors and caps
[04:18:36] <SWPadnos> oh
[04:18:49] <cradek> SWPadnos: no scale - all analog
[04:18:58] <SWPadnos> right - got that now :)
[04:19:05] <SWPadnos> that leaves me out ;)
[04:24:25] <jmkasunich> stustev: did you get my PM?
[07:56:51] <pjm_> good morning
[10:32:01] <colinb_> ello
[10:41:45] <pjm_> hi
[10:53:57] <anonimasu> hello
[10:55:04] <micges> hello
[10:56:35] <anonimasu> what's up?
[11:02:00] <micges> nothing much
[11:02:52] <colinb_> anyone here know much about encoders?
[11:04:25] <micges> resting with beer ;)
[11:12:20] <pjm_> anonimasu btw thanks for your pointing in the right direction re my spindle speed counter
[11:12:36] <pjm_> i have now integrated a display into EMC that measures and displays the actual spindle speed
[11:13:59] <colinb_> woohoo sorted my encoder:)
[11:14:19] <colinb_> now just gotta get the rest of it working lol
[11:21:12] <pjm_> colinb_ what encoder are u working on?
[11:37:13] <colinb_> ATI encoder
[11:37:15] <colinb_> on my lathe
[11:37:29] <colinb_> sorry AMI
[11:37:36] <colinb_> ami-elektronik 411
[11:39:28] <pjmemc> nice. i'm just working on making my mini-mill motor controller work from an external pwm input which will come from emc
[11:39:53] <pjmemc> although the power supply is a bit crappy, all the onboard pwm stuff floats at 1/2 mains
[11:43:27] <colinb_> ah
[11:43:35] <colinb_> this isnt really a mini lathe tho
[11:43:57] <colinb_> had some problems powering the mesa boards enough due to lengh of cables
[11:44:23] <colinb_> think im gonna have to install a second mesa io board due to all the IO's
[11:47:40] <colinb_> righty F1 race starts shortly
[11:47:45] <colinb_> laters
[12:12:39] <anonimasu> logger_emc: bookmark
[12:12:39] <anonimasu> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-08-24.txt
[13:11:08] <anonimasu> *yawn*
[13:11:51] <BigJohnT> nap time anonimasu ?
[13:12:31] <anonimasu> no
[13:13:34] <anonimasu> I'm watching the OS end
[13:13:40] <anonimasu> err olympic games
[15:50:49] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: When you said OS was that suppose to be Olympic Slaughter by chance?
[15:51:07] <anonimasu> yep
[15:51:13] <anonimasu> -_-
[15:51:16] <JymmmEMC> =)
[15:51:25] <anonimasu> poor sogn.
[15:51:26] <anonimasu> song..
[15:51:46] <anonimasu> I keep wondering if the fireworks are real too :)
[15:52:19] <JymmmEMC> I watched the openin cerimony, but that's it
[15:53:17] <JymmmEMC> When they have Olympic Female Jello wrestling... then we can talk
[16:02:50] <anonimasu> ^_ ^
[17:00:46] <anonimasu> hello K`zan
[17:00:49] <anonimasu> how are things going?
[17:03:56] <K`zan> Pretty good all in all. FINALLY solved the network problem for the EMC box. Not quite optimal but it works and at this point I am tired of screwing around with it, I wanna get to throwing chips :-)!
[17:04:24] <K`zan> What you been up to, it has been a while.
[17:05:48] <jmkasunich> speaking of throwing chips: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/hot-chips-2582.jpg
[17:06:45] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: what kind of freaky material is that you are turning?
[17:06:56] <anonimasu> oh, is that the spindle :)
[17:06:59] <jmkasunich> yep
[17:07:03] <anonimasu> ^_^
[17:07:14] <anonimasu> hard stuff
[17:07:23] <jmkasunich> not going well - it actually cuts nicely where there aren't any interruptions
[17:07:30] <anonimasu> :(
[17:07:33] <jmkasunich> but much of the cutting is interrupted, and it sucks
[17:07:37] <anonimasu> :(
[17:08:18] <jmkasunich> I'm waiting for some boring inserts - that will be the real test
[17:08:22] <K`zan> Got a 1" round of stainless of some ilk and where I tried to turn that in the beginning it looks more like I was knurling it :).
[17:08:35] <anonimasu> :(
[17:08:48] <anonimasu> let's talk about cast iron now :p
[17:08:49] <K`zan> Got better after that
[17:08:52] <anonimasu> * anonimasu chuckles
[17:09:02] <jmkasunich> heh, cast iron = nice
[17:09:08] <K`zan> Easy stuff but messy as I found out when I modified the tailstock...
[17:09:24] <anonimasu> haha.. depends on what kind of cast iron it is :)
[17:09:29] <jmkasunich> gray iron
[17:09:38] <K`zan> Gets even more messy with oil/coolant
[17:09:47] <jmkasunich> should have seen the pile of chips from making the hole in the center of that steady rest
[17:10:00] <jmkasunich> K`zan: always cut cast iron dry
[17:10:15] <K`zan> jmkasunich: Yes, have since learned that <blush>.
[17:10:19] <jmkasunich> heh
[17:10:41] <anonimasu> thermal shock kills tooling pretty nicely too :)
[17:10:42] <K`zan> NICE to have the EMC box networked, finally.
[17:11:36] <jmkasunich> network is good
[17:11:46] <K`zan> * K`zan does happy dance!
[17:12:10] <K`zan> And I get away with NOT having to run 100' of cat5...
[17:12:32] <K`zan> Not so much the length here but the routing. 25' by wireless, 100' by ethernet.
[17:13:15] <K`zan> Of course by the time I got wireless working I could have done the routing manually.
[17:13:29] <anonimasu> lol
[17:13:35] <anonimasu> did you make any chips yet?
[17:13:57] <K`zan> gnome IMO just reeks, but that box would be a klunker under KDE.
[17:14:04] <anonimasu> I've been procrastinating cutting plastic all day :)
[17:14:09] <anonimasu> I first need to make a design to cut..
[17:14:29] <anonimasu> brb dinner I think
[17:14:38] <K`zan> Only got the NEMA23 mount done. Ended up just using the mill to center drill the mounting holes and then did them on the drill press to the right size.
[17:15:00] <K`zan> Enjoy!
[17:48:38] <anonimasu> iab
[17:48:42] <anonimasu> I see
[18:22:09] <tomp> jmkasunich: amazing photos of yellow chips. EMC hard turning! congrats on the steady
[18:22:45] <anonimasu> :)
[18:39:22] <dgarr> tomp: the faux ivory is cast urethane resin, + i think the links are fixed now
[18:50:20] <tomp> dgarr: thanks, you've done some beautiful work.
[18:51:18] <tomp> oh, and sorry if critical about the php
[18:52:03] <tomp> i'm kinda free with the 'show source' when it's interesting
[18:52:32] <anonimasu> tomp: do you know anything about mastercam?
[18:52:34] <dgarr> no thanks for mentioning it -- i broke a php function the other day and didn't know it
[18:52:52] <tomp> dgarr: ah! np
[18:53:22] <tomp> anonimasu: i dont use it myself, and have problems when handed their files
[18:54:03] <tomp> haha, gcode is more unified than cad formats!
[18:54:15] <anonimasu> heh..
[18:54:46] <alex_joni> STEP is pretty unified
[18:55:36] <alex_joni> anonimasu: ordered an Design Express
[18:55:56] <anonimasu> smallest?
[18:56:58] <alex_joni> a bit under 1k
[18:57:11] <anonimasu> ok
[18:59:11] <alex_joni> it's the most complete version
[18:59:17] <alex_joni> not sure how much CAM it contains
[18:59:58] <anonimasu> oh not very mch
[19:00:00] <anonimasu> much..
[19:01:04] <anonimasu> alex_joni: that would be expert
[19:01:17] <alex_joni> crap, that's what I meant
[19:01:23] <alex_joni> Xpress is the free one :)
[19:01:44] <tomp> http://www.alibre.com/xpress/
[19:02:26] <anonimasu> :p
[19:03:11] <tomp> check out their contest: 2nd place rc controlled duck decoy
[19:04:40] <tomp> and 3rd is a cnc router, but with 2 motors moving Z platform ,and Y is a single, all at one side
[19:06:46] <SWPadnos> I like the ATC they have on the "free Design Express" page
[19:06:58] <SWPadnos> (just under the ATV)
[19:07:36] <SWPadnos> has anyone tried Design Express under Wine?
[19:08:25] <alex_joni> hmm.. not me
[19:08:39] <SWPadnos> I'm assuming it works OK in a VM ...
[19:09:18] <tomp> SWPadnos: url for ATC?
[19:09:26] <SWPadnos> http://www.alibre.com/xpress/software/alibre-design-xpress.asp
[19:09:33] <SWPadnos> it's the 4th photo down - the spider-like thing
[19:09:51] <SWPadnos> I don't recall where they're for sale, but I did see a video or domething a year or two ago
[19:09:55] <SWPadnos> something
[19:10:22] <tomp> yeh, looks familiar, for mini mills
[19:11:24] <alex_joni> I think fenn planned to build one like that
[19:11:50] <SWPadnos> I think it all runs on air, even the spinning and lifting
[19:13:00] <tomp> whoops, stumbled into another min ATC http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2937
[19:14:04] <jmkasunich> they had one of those at the CNC workshop
[19:17:44] <jmkasunich> no wonder I was having fits last night - there are no less than 24 holes in the face of the spindle
[19:18:12] <jmkasunich> I knew they were there, but untill I sat down and transferred them to my drawing I didn't realize how many
[19:20:02] <tomp> the spider http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/Automatic_Tool_Changer_Plans.htm
[19:20:30] <tomp> jmkasunich: which was shown? horz chain or spider?
[19:20:55] <tomp> will it help to plug holes?
[19:28:58] <tomp> hey, Thomas Kramer (EMC pioneer) wrote about boring and checking bores http://www.nist.gov/msidlibrary/doc/kramer89.ps
[19:34:55] <jmkasunich> horiz chain
[19:35:22] <jmkasunich> regarding holes - I'm doing some exploratory work, first with measuring, later with cutting
[19:35:38] <jmkasunich> the spindle is made of at least two, maybe three pieces shrunk together
[19:36:17] <jmkasunich> I'm not exactly sure where the borders are yet, but if I'm lucky, I might be able to shed a piece or two and have a nicer chunk left over
[20:16:10] <jmkasunich> well, one joint line confirmed
[20:16:28] <jmkasunich> but there still seem to be things that are impossible about this thing
[20:37:01] <jmkasunich> I'm sorry Dave, but I can't do that
[20:40:08] <HAL9000> lol
[20:41:00] <HAL9000> HAL9000 is now known as SkinnYPup
[20:45:22] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: what the heck are you doing?
[20:45:30] <jmkasunich> the spindle project
[20:46:16] <skunkworks> you're going to have to update your blog.. :)
[20:48:03] <jmkasunich> when I actually have some progress to report I will
[20:48:14] <jmkasunich> you saw the hot chip pic, right?
[20:48:28] <jmkasunich> that and a few chipped insert corners are all I have to show at the moment
[20:48:31] <SkinnYPup> Anyone had any luck converting the output from pcb to gcode ?
[20:48:32] <SkinnYPup> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/
[21:40:18] <blitz> quick question, What is a good program to use in linux to convert a dxf file into a file (ngc??) that can be milled with emc?
[21:41:38] <SkinnYPup> Sheetcam works well
[21:43:00] <blitz> do you know of any that are open source, or at least not bricked?
[21:44:39] <SkinnYPup> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
[21:45:08] <renesis> skinnypup: pcb-gcode
[21:45:14] <renesis> REVIEW THE GCODE
[21:45:29] <renesis> on my version it ignored Z feedrate parameters during etching
[21:45:34] <renesis> its an eagle ulp
[21:45:44] <renesis> if youre not using eagle, that sucks
[21:46:14] <renesis> twingy is reworking the gerber to gcode in gcam
[21:46:21] <blitz> i'm not up to trying to mill pcb's yet. :-(
[21:46:39] <renesis> so itll work with all the retarded aperture macros
[21:46:55] <SkinnYPup> I've been using eagle with the gcode ulp , my friend has been using PCB and trying for the same outcome since it isn't size limited
[21:46:55] <renesis> its not so hard just need good setup
[21:47:02] <renesis> i made a clamp fixture from aluminum
[21:48:35] <fenn> blitz: i've had success on simple outlines with dxf2gcode on that wiki page
[21:49:06] <blitz> fenn, kk I am trying to see if it is already on the fedora repo quick
[21:49:21] <fenn> no, i really doubt it
[21:50:16] <SkinnYPup> renesis: pcb-gcode from http://www.brusselsprout.org/PCB-Routing/ ?
[21:50:25] <SkinnYPup> Is that the one you are refering to ?
[21:51:29] <blitz> no, can't find them.
[21:52:41] <renesis> download it from the cadsoft ulp downloads page
[21:52:53] <renesis> pcb-gcode.ulp
[21:53:00] <blitz> thx, I found what I needed, I need to head out to the shop to test this quick. :-)
[21:53:05] <LawrenceG> ok python gurus... what is the syntax if I want to print the hex value of a char? ie char = ' ' print("char = %04X", %char) chokes..
[21:53:47] <renesis> skinnypup: ive had good results with single flute and pyramid tip conical cutters
[21:54:06] <renesis> 30deg ones did down to like .008 space/trace ok
[21:54:24] <renesis> but homebrew boards at that resolution are a bitch to assembles
[21:54:48] <renesis> design sucks because drc on the eda apps isnt set up to catch problems that only occur on homebrew boards
[21:55:07] <renesis> like via under chips or no continuity via thru hole plating
[21:57:47] <fenn> LawrenceG: print "char = %04X" % char
[21:58:30] <SkinnYPup> renesis: thanks I'll check out that ulp for eagle also. I'd gotten fairly good results out of the gcode-1.zip ulp on their site
[21:59:16] <LawrenceG> fenn, self.gcode.append("(character %04X)" % char)
[21:59:16] <LawrenceG> TypeError: int argument required
[21:59:17] <renesis> maybe in a month or two there will be a better solution
[21:59:44] <renesis> twingy is using libgerbv to generate bitmaps and converting to objects used by his cam app
[22:00:21] <SkinnYPup> Hoping to hear something for PCB , belive he used this converter and it made gcode that looked more like silkscreen than trace outline
[22:00:22] <SkinnYPup> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~alanb/ps2gc.html
[22:00:26] <renesis> cuz funky gerbers were killing the existing converter
[22:00:50] <renesis> skinnypup: this should work with any pcb app
[22:01:01] <renesis> but yeh prob wont be done for weeks or months, iunno
[22:02:16] <SkinnYPup> renesis: refering to what twingy is working on ? "work with any pcb app"
[22:02:23] <fenn> LawrenceG: i think you want something like ord(char)
[22:04:11] <LawrenceG> feen.... thanks... I think that works.... amazing how something so simple can escape the brain
[22:10:02] <renesis> skunkworks: ha, gcam
[22:10:06] <renesis> but youre gone
[22:10:09] <renesis> i thought i already said
[22:34:58] <tomp> s = "A B"
[22:34:58] <tomp> for c in s:
[22:34:58] <tomp> print ord(c
[22:36:04] <SWPadnos> 65 66
[22:36:11] <tomp> ord( c) Given a string of length one, return an integer representing the Unicode code point of the character when the argument is a unicode object, or the value of the byte when the argument is an 8-bit string.
[22:36:33] <tomp> SWPadnos: u are a python interpreter :)
[22:36:42] <SWPadnos> for small values of python ;)
[22:37:42] <tomp> ord, car, started to look like Pascal (gag!)
[22:38:06] <SWPadnos> using CRT, DOS;
[22:50:09] <jmkasunich> well, I think the "spindle project" is dead, or at least seriously wounded
[22:50:32] <jmkasunich> I've finally figured out all the details of how they are made, and I don't think I can avoid an interrupted cut
[22:51:11] <SWPadnos> fill the holes with solder, then melt it out when you're done ;)
[22:51:36] <jmkasunich> solder != hardened steel
[22:51:44] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:52:02] <SWPadnos> I did consider suggesting thatyou put screws in the holes, but there's no easy way to get them out afterwards
[22:52:24] <jmkasunich> some of the holes are threaded, 2mm and 3mm
[22:52:27] <jmkasunich> others are not
[22:52:39] <jmkasunich> and there is a huge 10mm wide slot (one per rev)
[22:52:50] <SWPadnos> those can get pins, but they have the same removal problem (unless they're through)
[22:53:06] <jmkasunich> I don't think any of the pins/screws would need removed
[22:53:22] <SWPadnos> oh - are you trying to make a flat face?
[22:53:30] <jmkasunich> yes
[22:53:35] <jmkasunich> the face is the lesser problem
[22:53:39] <jmkasunich> boring is the real issue
[22:53:58] <SWPadnos> I figured you'd need the holes later, but if you don't - well - stick pins/screws in them ;)
[22:54:22] <jmkasunich> thats actually not a bad idea
[22:54:50] <jmkasunich> hopefully a SHCS is close enough in hardness to the spindle material to keep the cutter happy
[23:35:54] <cradek> rayh: I think I've got a duff amp... I can't get it stabilized.
[23:36:27] <cradek> I checked everything for mechanical slop again. I can't find any problem.
[23:37:05] <cradek> it's the velocity loop oscillating.
[23:37:31] <jmkasunich> swap amps?
[23:38:32] <jmkasunich> the spindle problem in a nutshell: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/HSK_spindle_machining.pdf
[23:38:58] <jmkasunich> green = shrunk on ring, red = the sleeve I'd like to install (and the bored hole it goes in)
[23:39:18] <jmkasunich> black = hardened spindle
[23:39:26] <jmkasunich> cuttable, but not if there is an interrupted cut
[23:40:26] <jmkasunich> too damn many holes in that thing already
[23:40:42] <cradek> jmkasunich: the problem is the holes shown in section B?
[23:40:47] <cradek> those are in a terrible place
[23:41:06] <jmkasunich> primarily, although the ones in A are a problem too (angled ones)
[23:41:22] <cradek> are those coolant nozzles?
[23:41:49] <jmkasunich> I think, except that they are obstructed when the tool is installed
[23:42:25] <cradek> maybe they mated with the holder for through-tool
[23:42:35] <jmkasunich> could be
[23:43:07] <cradek> can you just plug the holes with some CRS?
[23:43:22] <cradek> it might be enough to keep the tool from bouncing around
[23:43:24] <jmkasunich> most of them, probably
[23:43:35] <cradek> B especially
[23:43:40] <jmkasunich> although I'm not sure how to keep the plugs from rotating
[23:44:00] <jmkasunich> but if you look at the front view, you'll see that B also includes a huge square slot
[23:44:02] <cradek> hm, the B might want to come out when you cut nearly half the diameter away
[23:44:46] <cradek> one coming out would be a serious problem
[23:45:26] <jmkasunich> if I don't try to use the sleeve, then the inner red lines are the bore lines
[23:45:46] <jmkasunich> in that case, the main problem is the big slot
[23:46:35] <cradek> I don't understand the lower drawing of section B. is the big slot not open to the inside?
[23:46:52] <jmkasunich> looking at the front view
[23:47:05] <jmkasunich> the right hand hole is just a drilled hole, it is on the bottom of the section dwg
[23:47:17] <jmkasunich> the left hand hole goes to and thru the slot
[23:47:29] <cradek> I understand so far
[23:48:03] <jmkasunich> the slot is "buried", they machine it from the outside before they put the green ring on
[23:48:08] <cradek> if you took the green ring off and looked from above the top of the lower section B drawing, would you see through the slot into the bore?
[23:48:20] <jmkasunich> yes
[23:48:40] <jmkasunich> thats how I figured out that the green ring was a shrink-on - otherwise it would be impossible to machine the slot
[23:48:49] <jmkasunich> as is, its still difficult - the corners are square
[23:48:51] <cradek> ok the extra lines there confused me
[23:49:18] <jmkasunich> it is a very confusing part
[23:49:27] <cradek> oh I see, you're showing where the curved and flat parts meet at an edge
[23:49:39] <jmkasunich> took me all day (and cutting the ring off of one) to figure it out
[23:50:36] <cradek> so if you don't do the sleeve, you only have to deal with the slot and the holes in section A
[23:50:48] <jmkasunich> yeah
[23:50:55] <cradek> and the section A holes barely (or don't) need to be cut
[23:51:08] <jmkasunich> the ones on the face are a nuisance, the ones in the bore could be left for final grinding
[23:51:12] <cradek> you could just grind some clearance and leave it
[23:51:32] <cradek> oh I forgot about the face
[23:51:43] <jmkasunich> but the two small sections are way too much metal to remove by grinding, and the one closer to the opening has the slot
[23:51:49] <cradek> needs to be flat for tts?
[23:51:57] <jmkasunich> yeah, flat to 1.5"
[23:52:25] <jmkasunich> I could probably use the 4 outermost threaded holes to put a ring on, instead of machining off that step
[23:52:54] <cradek> true you could cover the whole front
[23:53:21] <jmkasunich> the thing that scares me about not sleeving it is the lack of support for the collet where the slot is
[23:54:13] <cradek> I think you have to close that anyway, to bore it
[23:54:15] <jmkasunich> hmm, I wonder if I could kill two birds with one stone - mill a block that fits in the slot - drive a pin thru the upper B hole and thru a hole in the block, to lock it in
[23:55:35] <jmkasunich> it would have to be 10mm x 15mm
[23:58:17] <jmkasunich> the B pin hole is 5mm behind the slot, and 5.25mm in front if it - makes the pin a bit more challenging
[23:58:30] <cradek> a tiny bit of taper would help it lock in
[23:58:53] <jmkasunich> the holes are straight tho
[23:58:59] <jmkasunich> I'm thinking spring pin(s)
[23:59:13] <jmkasunich> mcmaster has 5mm spring pins
[23:59:23] <renesis> because mcmaster has everything
[23:59:29] <jmkasunich> almost
[23:59:34] <renesis> yeh =(