#emc | Logs for 2008-08-19

[00:04:57] <jmkasunich> cradek: regarding aux contacts - they are exactly that - aux - not rated for significant load
[00:05:10] <jmkasunich> not to say they might not work, but read the fine print carefully
[00:17:24] <tomp> jepler, your spindle runout is tiny, chuck up an indicator and walk arounf a 123 block to see how the axis look (and run over the top to look for cosine error/tilted workplane)
[00:18:09] <tomp> jmkasunich: right, i dont know what energy is involved
[00:18:33] <tomp> gnite
[00:18:52] <jmkasunich> we were talking about using the NC contact to throw a beefy DB resistor across the DC bus, after the NO contacts disconnect it from the rectifier
[00:19:18] <jmkasunich> so you need a NC contact with some cojones
[00:19:44] <tomp> huevos :) bye bye
[00:20:27] <dmess> how many AMPS??
[00:21:19] <jmkasunich> depends on the resistor, but could be as high as 30ish
[00:21:25] <jmkasunich> at 90V DC
[00:21:42] <jmkasunich> this is cradek's lathe, my numbers are secondhand
[00:22:16] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is pulling out hair trying to figure out how to do a bore
[00:22:48] <dmess> what kinda bore??
[00:22:59] <dmess> what do you need??
[00:23:05] <dmess> hepl with
[00:23:06] <jmkasunich> 68mm = 2.677 inches diameter, +/- I hope well under a thou
[00:23:20] <jmkasunich> all the way thru a piece of cast iron 1.5" thick
[00:23:37] <dmess> sholdnt be a problem...
[00:23:53] <dmess> how big a lathe??
[00:23:58] <jmkasunich> the hole is not centered on the piece - if I put it on the faceplate it will be very hard to clamp, and about 10 in-lbs out of balance
[00:24:04] <jmkasunich> my shoptask 3-in-1
[00:24:24] <dmess> do you have a 4 jaw chuck??
[00:24:30] <jmkasunich> not big enough
[00:24:38] <jmkasunich> the piece is 4 x 6 x 1.5
[00:24:46] <jmkasunich> my chuck is 6" OD
[00:24:58] <jmkasunich> the hole is 1" off center
[00:24:58] <dmess> can yo reach the 4" with the 4 jaw?
[00:25:36] <dmess> how accurate does it need to be within the piece??
[00:25:53] <jmkasunich> in one direction, not critical
[00:26:01] <dmess> or just mill and bore it??
[00:26:06] <jmkasunich> in the other, +/- a couple thou at most, and preferrably under 1
[00:26:18] <jmkasunich> bore with boring head you mean?
[00:26:38] <jmkasunich> the only boring head I have isn't very rigid
[00:26:40] <dmess> so pop a hole in before you finish mill/grind the edge... no sweat
[00:26:55] <dmess> THE hole
[00:27:00] <jmkasunich> I can tell you work with real machines
[00:27:04] <jmkasunich> nothing is that simple
[00:27:44] <jmkasunich> I have something like 7 cubic inches of cast iron to remove
[00:27:46] <dmess> you can lign up to +/-.002 -.003 by eye with fron a center punc mark
[00:27:51] <jmkasunich> on this machine, that will take a while
[00:28:08] <jmkasunich> I can line up a hell of a lot better than that with a toolmakers button ;-)
[00:28:12] <jmkasunich> alignment isn't the problem
[00:29:02] <tomp> bottom cutting end mill smaller than the final bore, slow feed, then, once centered, walk up to true dimension with boring head?
[00:29:22] <tomp> to get the bore ctrd
[00:29:23] <dmess> use a large tool rad and low doc as fast as she'll spinn and 3-5 thou per tooth... if thats a problem remove an inserf from the cutter
[00:29:43] <jmkasunich> insert? what are these insert things?
[00:30:17] <dmess> lol.. ok
[00:31:06] <dmess> yeah.. cirular interpolate a hole .015-.04" undersize... then bore to finish
[00:31:13] <dmess> and position
[00:31:19] <tomp> (out the door)
[00:31:21] <jmkasunich> thats probably the way to go
[00:31:45] <dmess> ive been doing it for 20 yrs now...
[00:31:54] <jmkasunich> although the mill head is so flimsy I'll probably remount it and do the final boring with the boring head in the lathe spindle instead
[00:32:17] <jmkasunich> the part is a custom steady rest, so the hole height needs to match lathe center height anyway
[00:32:27] <dmess> drill a hole.. chip it out.. finish it.. add the grooves and back spot face... and ship
[00:33:10] <dmess> then id leave as little for hand scraping... you can take it off you cant put it on easily
[00:34:47] <jmkasunich> my boring head: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/boring-head-2563.jpg
[00:35:21] <jmkasunich> that is the only cutter I have for it (7/16 shank, of all things)
[00:37:57] <dmess> PLEASE dont use / abuse that tool for a 2+" hole please please pleas....
[00:38:13] <jmkasunich> now you see my dillemma
[00:38:37] <dmess> do you havd a 1.5 inch b/bar??
[00:38:43] <dmess> have
[00:38:57] <jmkasunich> no
[00:39:22] <jmkasunich> if you mean for regular lathe boring, my problem with that is spinning the off-centered part
[00:39:50] <dmess> that is a sweet looking bar that would last me till retirement but i COULNT use it on a 2" hole
[00:40:09] <jmkasunich> Dad made that who knows how many years ago
[00:40:10] <dmess> too heavy??
[00:40:29] <dmess> YOUR dad..
[00:40:32] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:40:45] <robin_sz> * robin_sz lifts an eye
[00:40:58] <jmkasunich> John J Kasunich is Dad, John M Kasunich is me - note the name stamped on it
[00:41:14] <dmess> good toolmaker... i know qualit... and even morre reason to NOT abuse it
[00:41:27] <jmkasunich> agreed
[00:41:38] <skunkworks> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=307-1742&PMPXNO=6219131&PARTPG=INLMK3
[00:41:47] <jmkasunich> if I was taking say 0.002 out of the bore to get final size, that would be one thing
[00:42:49] <robin_sz> drill a 1/2" hole and set to with a rat-tail file?
[00:43:08] <jmkasunich> finally, somebody with a helpfull suggestion
[00:43:13] <jmkasunich> thanks, I'll get right on that
[00:43:16] <robin_sz> * robin_sz giggles
[00:43:26] <dmess> you NEVER wanna try and CUT .002" out of most bores... it should be honed if that close.. you need a cut to get surface finish... i like 2/3 tool nose rad as doc
[00:43:37] <robin_sz> you should be done in .. oh, couple of years?
[00:43:47] <robin_sz> might need a stock of rat-tail files too
[00:44:57] <dmess> .002" in cast iron is a backed off spring pass
[00:45:19] <dmess> and you better know your tool
[00:46:14] <jmkasunich> what I'd really like to use is a between centers boring bar on the lathe
[00:46:29] <jmkasunich> but this "build a tool to build a tool" stuff is getting old
[00:46:56] <dmess> we have gentleman at work who has custom b macro's for fanucs that determine tool load and compensate for taper and stuff... but we ARE at 23:1 depth to diameter
[00:47:06] <jmkasunich> heh
[00:47:14] <robin_sz> coo
[00:47:15] <jmkasunich> I'm at about 0.6:1
[00:47:59] <dmess> yeah... we had some shocks running 38:1 last yr.. DASH 8 a/c
[00:48:08] <robin_sz> * robin_sz stares at ebay ...
[00:48:21] <dmess> dont do it robin
[00:48:24] <robin_sz> i dont actually need a router ...
[00:48:27] <robin_sz> but ...
[00:48:28] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200246257171&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching
[00:49:10] <dmess> JUST SAY NO !!!!! its like CRACK ounce you try it you keep going back
[00:49:56] <robin_sz> i was actually bidding on a msall gen set when I spotted this ...
[00:50:00] <robin_sz> small
[00:50:31] <dmess> get a bigger gen set
[00:50:58] <robin_sz> this one is ~100kva
[00:51:10] <robin_sz> chickened out of the 250kva one
[00:51:38] <dmess> lol
[00:51:57] <dmess> how much??? diesel
[00:52:07] <robin_sz> going to upgrade the AVR and fit an elecronic governor
[00:52:16] <robin_sz> yeah, diesel
[00:52:21] <robin_sz> about 2k gbp
[00:53:10] <dmess> what gbp??
[00:53:23] <robin_sz> great britain pounds
[00:53:32] <robin_sz> sterling
[00:53:40] <dmess> wow... thats dear...
[00:53:44] <JymmmEMC> $4000 USD
[00:54:10] <robin_sz> the one I really like is 7K gbp
[00:54:17] <dmess> for that id have put up a wind install
[00:54:22] <robin_sz> 160 kva
[00:54:30] <robin_sz> fully silenced, in an enclosure
[00:54:42] <robin_sz> volvo penta, stmapford alternator
[00:55:08] <dmess> sweet.. the penta is a nice platform
[00:55:22] <robin_sz> yeah, but 7K is too much for me i think
[00:55:27] <robin_sz> 2K is mor eaffordable
[00:55:34] <robin_sz> 6 cylinder ford turbo
[00:56:16] <dmess> there are Perkins made in Canada that are cheaper than that
[00:56:28] <robin_sz> perins is a nice unit too
[00:56:29] <robin_sz> and cat
[00:56:43] <robin_sz> and cummins
[00:57:06] <robin_sz> the ones to avoid are rolls royce
[00:57:09] <robin_sz> petbow
[00:57:13] <robin_sz> dorman
[00:58:19] <dmess> im all about solar and wind these days... last summer we burned uner 2 gallons of gas in the gen set... solar power to a few eliminator units was all that was required
[00:58:32] <dmess> RR??
[00:58:38] <robin_sz> avoid
[00:58:51] <dmess> really..
[00:58:56] <robin_sz> spares ...
[00:59:04] <robin_sz> all non standard
[00:59:05] <dmess> oh OK
[00:59:12] <robin_sz> all very expensive
[00:59:17] <dmess> sure
[00:59:29] <robin_sz> dorman, went out of production 10 yrs +
[01:00:01] <dmess> brb
[01:00:09] <robin_sz> so, im gunning for that ford :)
[01:01:29] <robin_sz> that router would make a nice EMC covnersion
[01:01:34] <robin_sz> * robin_sz sighs
[01:10:20] <dmess> i have a nice 2nd op harding with2 cross slides im looking to EMC 1 of the slides
[01:10:31] <dmess> Hardinge
[01:11:25] <dmess> run out on the spindle doesnt move my tenth indicator both nose and face ;)
[01:12:43] <dmess> it should make a nice little precision basement lathe
[01:14:12] <dmess> need to get the VFD from a buddy first... spin her up.. manually to make the couplings to hook up the motors... yada yada yada.. the thing the thing .. you know the feeling
[02:46:15] <blitz> hello, I just got done building a controller for my micro-lathe, it works fine but I don't know what settings to use for timing the stepper motors. When the onboard controller turns them, it is quiet and smooth, but when EMC turns them it is lound and choppy. I think it is trying to turn it to fast, or is holding the windings on to long. Any idea what needs to be done?
[02:46:43] <blitz> the stepper motor is a 57BYG
[02:46:57] <cradek> what do you mean onboard controller?
[02:47:22] <blitz> the original controller had manual buttons to move it
[02:48:02] <blitz> that's what I meant by onboard
[02:48:23] <cradek> are they really 3 phase steppers? what kind of signal does the control accept?
[02:48:27] <blitz> edit: the motor type is a 57BYG 001a
[02:48:45] <cradek> oh ok, 2 coil
[02:48:49] <cradek> http://www.ekt2.com/_files/96%20STEPPER%20MOTOR%2057BYG.htm
[02:49:14] <blitz> cradek, yes thats the one
[02:49:28] <blitz> I can't find any info on how fast they should run
[02:49:54] <SWPadnos> pretty slow, from the specs on the -001
[02:50:31] <cradek> but the trick is generating the right signals for whatever is driving them. what is driving them?
[02:50:37] <cradek> (yes they will be slow)
[02:50:56] <blitz> I have a chopper drive, full step board
[02:51:13] <blitz> it has a clock and step dir pin
[02:51:26] <cradek> it can only do full step?
[02:52:00] <cradek> full stepping is bad news, as you are hearing - try to find a way to set it to half stepping
[02:52:07] <blitz> :-( yes, but I can change that if I change a jumper
[02:52:22] <cradek> what are the choices?
[02:52:32] <blitz> just a sec...
[02:52:37] <SWPadnos> can you measure or otherwise fiind out what the "on-board" controller outputs to the drive?
[02:53:42] <cradek> are you running at the highest possible input voltage to your drive? I hope it can take 30-40 volts but you need to check its max
[02:54:33] <blitz> SWPadnos, I can, but my osciloscope is all analog tube, so I have no way of measing the timings
[02:54:42] <SWPadnos> oh - bummer :)
[02:54:51] <blitz> cradek, it's a micromill, so it is like 12v to the motors
[02:55:42] <SWPadnos> one other question: are you using all the same hardware with the onboard controller and EMC (other than the controller), or are you switching drives also?
[02:56:27] <blitz> I am using the same chopper drivers, I just removed the original RS232 controller and built my own parallel one
[02:56:36] <blitz> http://imagebin.ca/view/KKLjVKF.html
[02:56:55] <blitz> there is the link to a pic of my chopper drive, sorry for the bad pic...
[02:57:20] <cradek> this is l297/l298. you should set it for half stepping and find a 35 volt supply (or so)
[02:58:13] <jmkasunich> well, its gonna take a while to go from 5/8" to 2.5" at 1/8" per pass
[02:58:19] <blitz> why do I need a higher voltage psu? my motors would burn out at 35v
[02:58:42] <cradek> no they wouldn't; you set the current limit and the chopper does its job
[02:58:42] <blitz> yeah, it was always a slow mill
[02:59:00] <cradek> a 35v supply will approximately triple your top speed
[02:59:11] <jmkasunich> blitz: sorry, I was talking about a hole I'm roughing out
[02:59:21] <cradek> jmkasunich: yay cnc
[02:59:31] <jmkasunich> if the cutter lasts that long
[02:59:39] <cradek> steel?
[02:59:42] <jmkasunich> cast iron
[02:59:53] <jmkasunich> I have about 7 cu. in. to turn into chips
[03:00:10] <cradek> I bet you'll have to sharpen a few times if it's hss
[03:00:24] <jmkasunich> sharpening end mills - such fun
[03:00:33] <blitz> in that case, my chopper is doing it's job, it is putting out the correct voltage. Any idea what I should tell EMC to do for Step time, step space, direction hold, direction setup?
[03:00:37] <jmkasunich> didn't have a suitable carbide one - I need 1.5" of flute length
[03:00:39] <cradek> oh I figured you were boring
[03:00:53] <cradek> blitz: L297 is one of the presets in stepconf
[03:00:55] <jmkasunich> no, helical milling - just to get the bulk if it gone
[03:01:37] <jmkasunich> after our "event" at the CNC workshop, there's no way I'm gonna go around the outside and have a chunk left over
[03:01:42] <blitz> cradek, I feel like a complete idiot right now for not noticing that... :D
[03:02:49] <cradek> if you don't want to change anything else, you will hear the biggest difference by switching to half step mode
[03:03:29] <blitz> cradek, thanks, I will try that when I get a chance
[03:05:05] <jmkasunich> does http://www.tormach.com/ get a 403 for you?
[03:05:19] <cradek> no, it's fine
[03:05:20] <jmkasunich> could have sworn it was working yesterday
[03:05:30] <jmkasunich> wtf
[03:06:24] <jmkasunich> thats really weird
[03:06:52] <SWPadnos> I get a 403
[03:06:58] <jmkasunich> ok, so its not just me
[03:07:09] <SWPadnos> nope
[03:07:28] <jmkasunich> maybe there's a cache somewhere between cradek and the server?
[03:08:31] <cradek> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
[03:08:31] <cradek> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 03:03:30 GMT
[03:09:23] <jmkasunich> Forbidden
[03:09:23] <jmkasunich> You don't have permission to access / on this server.
[03:09:23] <jmkasunich> Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
[03:09:23] <jmkasunich> Apache/1.3.33 Server at AppStuff Port 80
[03:09:50] <cradek> Server: Apache/2.0.52 (Red Hat)
[03:09:59] <jmkasunich> serious wtf
[03:10:18] <jmkasunich> dns games?
[03:10:19] <SWPadnos> Firefox on Windows here
[03:10:35] <cradek> tormach.com.3437INA208.109.181.38
[03:10:54] <jmkasunich> pinging gets the same IP
[03:11:14] <jmkasunich> p3slhssl08.shr.phx3.secureserver.net
[03:11:15] <jtr> 403 here, same ip. Firefox on dapper
[03:11:56] <cradek> now I get the error too
[03:12:03] <jtr> and konqueror
[03:12:41] <cradek>
[03:13:04] <jmkasunich> thanks
[03:13:47] <jmkasunich> bah - all they say about the face mill inserts is "for ferrous and non-ferrous materials"
[03:14:08] <jmkasunich> usually they recommend different grades for alum, steel, and cast iron
[03:14:11] <cradek> "you can mill stuff with the insert things"
[03:14:23] <cradek> "they go round and round"
[03:14:27] <jmkasunich> I have their 1-1/2" face mill
[03:14:44] <jmkasunich> my hole needs to be somewhat bigger than 1-1/2" before I can use it tho
[03:15:17] <cradek> won't any carbide be ok dry on cast iron?
[03:15:32] <jmkasunich> thats an interesting feedrate calculation btw - helical mill a 1.5" cutter in a 1.6" hole at 6ipm and see what the actual feed at the cutter is
[03:16:09] <cradek> pretty fast I bet
[03:16:15] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:16:34] <jmkasunich> I probably have to get out to close to 2" before I can really run the face mill in there
[03:16:49] <jmkasunich> at that point I might as well just finish the job with the cutter I have
[03:16:51] <cradek> how deep is this?
[03:17:10] <jmkasunich> 1.5" - which I just realised is too deep for the face mill
[03:17:51] <cradek> that would be fun to do in 2 passes on mine with a 3/4 rougher. I wish you were closer so you could use it.
[03:18:36] <jmkasunich> I should take a pic of this ridiculous setup
[03:18:36] <jtr> Rough with a hole saw?
[03:18:55] <jmkasunich> jtr: hole saws suck, in my experience
[03:19:02] <jmkasunich> they barely work on wood (at least the ones I have)
[03:21:40] <jtr> it would be a deep cut - hard to keep the chips out of. but they are mostly pretty miserable. For wood, I've drilled a hole that intersected the kerf for chip removal.
[03:22:54] <jmkasunich> in 1-1/2" cast iron, it would be a joke
[03:23:28] <tomp3> another way to fix a bore with off center hole is to fill it, then start right. peen a soft steel slug in there so it wont move while re-drilling
[03:28:24] <jmkasunich> amusing machine move story: http://www.truetex.com/moveclausing.htm
[03:28:30] <jmkasunich> one big-ass rigger dude
[03:31:58] <cradek> I don't know if they felt sorry for me, or if they had nothing else to do for a while, or whether the auctioneer was worried I wouldn't clean up the mess I had made if I was dead.
[03:35:06] <jmkasunich> got ambitious on this pass - went from 1.5 to 1.75 in one pass
[03:35:11] <jmkasunich> its grumbling a bit, but doing it
[03:39:22] <cradek> my only funny moving story is using the tree outside the shop's back door
[03:46:53] <jmkasunich> trees are very solid anchor points
[03:59:17] <kanzure> * kanzure got an email today asking: ''I'm looking for something that can convert wmf to dxf (or gcode). Any ideas?I'm looking for something that can convert wmf to dxf (or gcode). Any ideas?''
[03:59:32] <kanzure> oops, sorry for the double paste
[04:23:30] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/Widget-prototype_W0QQitemZ260276508820QQihZ016QQcategoryZ1467QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[04:37:28] <JymmmEMC> kanzure: maybe inkscape can import WMF
[04:41:43] <kanzure> JymmmEMC: Yeah, it does. What can it export?
[04:42:18] <JymmmEMC> svg
[06:01:04] <toastydeath> i am kind of miffed that there doesn't seem to be a milling machine brand that sticks out
[06:01:22] <toastydeath> knee mills seem to be the de factor standard
[06:01:37] <toastydeath> i mean other than van norman and stuff, but i dunno
[06:31:14] <Guest817> Hello.. any sogns of life?
[06:31:17] <Guest817> signs
[06:32:26] <toastydeath> hai
[06:32:39] <Guest817> hello toasty..
[06:32:50] <Guest817> whats the protocol in this chat
[06:33:35] <Guest817> ?
[06:33:48] <toastydeath> uh, what do you mean
[06:34:35] <Guest817> i mean ..is there a protocol regarding posting questions? or is this failry free form discussion?
[06:35:04] <Guest817> this being myfirst time in this space
[06:35:20] <toastydeath> just ask, if someone knows, they'll answer
[06:35:29] <toastydeath> very free form
[06:35:44] <Guest817> OK.. thanks Toasty.
[06:35:47] <toastydeath> although you are kind of out of luck at the moment if you have an EMC question and not a general machining questions.
[06:35:54] <toastydeath> because i think i'm the only one awake aside from you.
[06:36:01] <Guest817> I have been playing with emc for about six months
[06:36:59] <Guest817> and would like to implment the pendant control like the one described in Big Johns "simole pendant" article
[06:37:01] <Guest817> simple
[06:37:16] <toastydeath> no idea man =(
[06:37:18] <toastydeath> i don't use emc
[06:37:26] <Guest817> are you familiar with the arti=cle
[06:37:26] <Guest817> ?
[06:37:33] <Guest817> OK.. no worires
[06:37:45] <Guest817> worries .. holly dislexia
[06:38:17] <toastydeath> lol
[06:38:18] <Guest817> what do you use ?
[06:38:30] <toastydeath> i use like, commercial CNC stuff
[06:38:32] <toastydeath> at work
[06:38:36] <toastydeath> Fanuc, mostly
[06:38:37] <Guest817> ok..
[06:38:53] <Guest817> i am just a hobbyist
[06:39:10] <toastydeath> cool
[06:39:18] <toastydeath> most guys in here are into the hobby side
[06:40:11] <Guest817> i built a small router/engraver for pcb work
[06:40:26] <toastydeath> cool man, what are you trying to build
[06:40:40] <Guest817> quite chufed with it.. would like to hook up a pendant to it..
[06:40:53] <Guest817> printed circuit boards
[06:41:05] <toastydeath> right, but i mean what are you going to use the circut boards for
[06:41:09] <toastydeath> are you building something in particular
[06:41:19] <Guest817> got a two stick analogue joypad on a usb port
[06:41:50] <Guest817> the machine is built and running.. just trying to add some nice to have things..
[06:42:00] <toastydeath> nice to have things make the difference =)
[06:42:41] <Guest817> so i had a look at big johns article on adding the pendant.. a simple enough affair .. yet.. i cant get it to run
[06:43:13] <Guest817> just going through the motions of adding a spindle mounted camera aswell
[06:43:25] <Guest817> also a USB powered unit
[06:43:56] <toastydeath> hot
[06:44:20] <Guest817> i hea some of the people in th eknow also visit these spaces..
[06:44:40] <toastydeath> yeah, you're in the right place if you want to get that working
[06:45:04] <Guest817> the thing that really pisses me off about linux is.. awkward and sometimes .. no just plain old geekish documentation
[06:45:10] <toastydeath> lots of the emc dev folks hang out here and can help you with getting it going
[06:45:14] <toastydeath> hahaha
[06:45:50] <Guest817> I mean.. isnt therea simple way of clarifying where various components live..?
[06:46:21] <Guest817> isnt there a way of simply and clearly staing why things are the way they are?
[06:46:25] <toastydeath> lol
[06:46:34] <Guest817> my bitch for the dayy... sighhhh
[06:46:42] <toastydeath> if doing it were easy, it probably would be done that way =)
[06:47:08] <toastydeath> even manuals for industrial controls are hard to read
[06:47:28] <toastydeath> just the complexity of the subject, i believe
[06:47:47] <Guest817> ahh no.. i mean explaining it .. i am sure there are many reasons why things are .. some practical .. many historical i am sure
[06:47:58] <toastydeath> * toastydeath shrug
[06:48:16] <Guest817> well..
[06:48:31] <Guest817> have you ever used emc?
[06:48:49] <toastydeath> i've loaded the simulator
[06:48:59] <toastydeath> and just screwed around with it for fifteen minutes
[06:48:59] <Guest817> and?
[06:49:00] <toastydeath> other than that, no
[06:49:09] <toastydeath> and what?
[06:49:16] <Guest817> ok.. thisis my first forray into cnc
[06:49:57] <toastydeath> i don't know what you're asking =(
[06:50:57] <Guest817> just for or comment if any on emc versus commercial product... i have no other experience in the area of cnc machines other than emc
[06:51:06] <Guest817> or = your
[06:51:20] <toastydeath> my opinion is definately biased because i've never had to actually machine anything with it
[06:51:39] <toastydeath> but my opinion is that it's a hobbyist-oriented product and isn't something I'd want to use in it's present state for production machining.
[06:51:58] <Guest817> ok.. fair enough
[06:52:01] <toastydeath> but it runs machines, and you make stuff with it - my opinion comes purely from what I would want to do with it.
[06:52:22] <Guest817> ok
[06:52:52] <toastydeath> but the alternatives are expensive
[06:52:59] <toastydeath> so i don't think it's a quite fair comparison of me to make.
[06:53:32] <Guest817> yes .. based on price alon EMC is incredible performer... hehehe
[06:53:35] <Guest817> alone
[06:53:45] <toastydeath> hahaha yeah
[06:53:57] <toastydeath> i am glad there is something out there like EMC that people can get into
[06:54:00] <toastydeath> for low cost
[06:54:16] <toastydeath> manufacturing is really hurting for people who understand even the basics of how stuff gets made
[06:54:31] <toastydeath> in america, anyway
[06:54:51] <toastydeath> and anything that lowers the barrier to entry even as a hobby is a+ in my book
[06:55:38] <Guest817> yes.. same here in australia
[06:55:49] <Guest817> manufacturing is really bad news
[06:55:51] <toastydeath> oh wow, australia
[06:55:56] <toastydeath> you guys are really hurting for used machines
[06:55:57] <Guest817> BRB.. phone
[06:55:59] <toastydeath> k
[06:56:50] <Guest817> back
[06:57:09] <toastydeath> wb
[06:57:10] <Guest817> i am sure you in the states have surplus of surplus gear
[06:57:21] <toastydeath> well we have all the post-ww2 manual machines
[06:57:26] <toastydeath> and a whole ton of used CNC stuff
[06:57:38] <toastydeath> buying a used VMC is not unfeasable for a hobbyist who wants one
[06:57:56] <Guest817> i made the machine to mill printed circuit boards
[06:58:22] <toastydeath> are you building a robot or what
[06:58:24] <Guest817> and a hot and cold press to press multilayer boards with a vacuum cassette
[06:59:11] <Guest817> no.. hoping to start a prototyping shop.. offering quick turnaround time on printed circuit boards.. one off kind of thing
[06:59:17] <toastydeath> cool
[06:59:32] <Guest817> next item.. flying probe tester
[06:59:42] <toastydeath> ...flying probe tester?
[06:59:48] <Guest817> yes..
[07:00:18] <toastydeath> also if you are interested, i have some pictures from work.
[07:00:20] <toastydeath> http://toastydeath.5gbs.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=30
[07:00:30] <toastydeath> mostly lathe pictures, but there's one shot of a mill at the bottom
[07:00:41] <toastydeath> i need to upload some more pictures i tool of mills
[07:00:48] <toastydeath> so what's a flying probe tester?
[07:00:51] <Guest817> when a pcb is made .. before placing components on it.. it needs to be checked to make sure all connections are made and n short circuit faults exist
[07:01:22] <toastydeath> hmm
[07:01:33] <Guest817> so a multi axis robot probes the bare board top and bottom and makes sure ots OK
[07:01:42] <Guest817> its
[07:02:01] <toastydeath> haha awesome
[07:02:33] <Guest817> generally speaking two probes top side two bottom side
[07:03:24] <Guest817> the prober then reads the net list file ( a file describing interconnections on the board
[07:04:09] <Guest817> and goes about making sure it ( the printed circuit board) is OK
[07:04:33] <toastydeath> very cool
[07:04:37] <Guest817> my milling machine uses renishaw optical scale
[07:04:50] <Guest817> down to 5 micron
[07:05:13] <toastydeath> lol
[07:05:17] <Guest817> renishaw are a british manufacturer of metrology gear
[07:05:30] <toastydeath> yep
[07:06:24] <Guest817> and is intended to fabricate features in the 0.004"
[07:07:00] <Guest817> so far no problems with 0.005" designs
[07:07:12] <toastydeath> cool
[07:07:32] <Guest817> that is trace width.. trace separation
[07:08:27] <Guest817> having a pendant would be a very nice feature
[07:09:13] <toastydeath> how big is the machine?
[07:09:16] <Guest817> what time is it in the state.. midnightish monda evening?
[07:09:50] <Guest817> machine X YX ... 500mm , 600mm, 50mm
[07:09:50] <toastydeath> 3 am
[07:10:08] <Guest817> ahh that expalins graveyard silence in the room
[07:10:45] <Guest817> servo driven.. renishaw scales all around
[07:10:58] <Guest817> split axis design
[07:11:04] <toastydeath> lol
[07:11:12] <toastydeath> gantry machine i assume
[07:11:17] <Guest817> stationary gantry carrying X and z axis
[07:11:27] <Guest817> table movement in the Y axis
[07:12:38] <Guest817> am a bit concerned by asomewhat scalloped edge of a diagonal cut
[07:13:46] <Guest817> the diagonal cut presents with subtle undulations of the edge... almost like a mis timing action between the two axis
[07:13:57] <Guest817> visible unde a 50X microscope
[07:14:14] <toastydeath> when a machine takes steps that are too large that happens
[07:14:53] <Guest817> its in the micron range
[07:15:15] <Guest817> and i have been able to minimise it by carefully tuning the servo amps.. but even so
[07:15:49] <Guest817> you have seen it on professional ger too?
[07:16:04] <Guest817> gear
[07:16:05] <toastydeath> when the control isn't set up properly, yes
[07:16:34] <toastydeath> either servo tuning or other position control parameters
[07:16:53] <toastydeath> there's a whole range of stuff that can cause it.
[07:16:54] <Guest817> OK.. what is the usual cause of improper adjustment.. let me put it another way .. whats the usual remedy
[07:17:12] <toastydeath> i've never had to fix it
[07:17:31] <Guest817> OK.. have you had any experience with this kind of problem
[07:17:42] <Guest817> OK..
[07:17:45] <toastydeath> someone who is more familiar with emc will have to walk you through the steps to troubleshoot it with however emc deals with it
[07:17:48] <Guest817> a bit of a delay ther
[07:17:51] <Guest817> ethere
[07:17:58] <Guest817> there
[07:18:18] <toastydeath> also it depends on the feed rate
[07:18:34] <Guest817> yes..i suppose so..
[07:18:49] <toastydeath> but either way, emc has different methods of dealing with things than commercial stuff
[07:19:10] <Guest817> i am using emc to generate step direction signals as per stepper motor setup
[07:19:18] <toastydeath> oh, then that's it right there
[07:19:44] <toastydeath> i read up and you said you had servo control, which is usually velocity driven
[07:19:50] <toastydeath> and tends to interpolate a lot smoother
[07:19:54] <toastydeath> slow the feed rate down
[07:19:59] <toastydeath> and see if it changes
[07:20:00] <Guest817> but then the servo amp receives these two signals as well as quadrature position signals from linear scale and then drives a brushless motor
[07:20:21] <toastydeath> steppers are position driven and will not interpolate smoothly
[07:20:29] <toastydeath> or servos driven in steps
[07:21:04] <Guest817> yes.. i guess so.. i might have to revisit servo loops
[07:21:49] <toastydeath> if you can drive them differently, i'd do it.
[07:22:10] <Guest817> this scolloping of the edge is visible on a fairly slow speed setting with a small diameter tool
[07:22:32] <Guest817> i am sure it would be obscured by a larger diameter tool
[07:22:44] <toastydeath> how slow, what actual feed
[07:23:22] <Guest817> spindle speed 60 000 rpm, feed rate 10 mm /second ( 3/8" per second
[07:24:04] <Guest817> effective tool diameter ( v tool) 0.005"
[07:24:28] <toastydeath> hm
[07:24:29] <Guest817> 60 degree tool
[07:24:39] <Guest817> exactly my sentiments
[07:24:44] <Guest817> ..hm
[07:24:50] <toastydeath> i'd still start with the stepper deal.
[07:25:18] <toastydeath> then start going through the parameters and see if anything stuck out
[07:26:10] <toastydeath> anyway, i'm headed to bed
[07:26:11] <toastydeath> goodnight
[07:26:18] <Guest817> the drive train is servo motor.. flexiblealuminium coupling.. 14 mm dia recirculating ball nut screw 5 mm pitch
[07:26:26] <Guest817> TOASTY .. good night
[11:44:28] <pjm> afternoon
[11:44:39] <pjm> has anyone built their own 4th axis?
[11:55:32] <BigJohnT> sure, some examples on youtube I think
[11:57:41] <archivist_ub> all depends on intended work
[11:57:46] <pjm> good idea, I'll have a quick check. I just need to get some ideas as to converting an existing small rotary table or to build one from scratch
[11:57:56] <pjm> bits of ally / plastic mainly
[11:58:18] <BigJohnT> archivist_ub did you find the cycle words you were looking for the other day?
[11:58:46] <archivist_ub> BigJohnT, which ones
[11:59:09] <archivist_ub> or do you mean my comment about R in g83
[11:59:12] <BigJohnT> hmmm, it was one of the canned cycles
[11:59:14] <BigJohnT> yes
[11:59:44] <archivist_ub> R in g83 is documented poorly elsewhere
[12:00:21] <BigJohnT> it's a couple of paragraphs up in the beginning of the canned cycles section
[12:00:31] <BigJohnT> doesn't really stick out though
[12:00:34] <archivist_ub> I think I should give it a coat of looking at to make a nicer comment
[12:02:44] <BigJohnT> archivist_ub are you using a cvs version?
[12:02:47] <archivist_ub> I experimented till I understod what it did
[12:03:06] <archivist_ub> no Im using 2.2.6
[12:03:35] <archivist_ub> but I was refering to docs I printed, then checked on the website
[12:03:54] <BigJohnT> ok, I've been working on the canned cycles section since I saw your comment but it won't be out till 2.2.7
[12:04:12] <archivist_ub> ok thanks
[12:04:39] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT has to head to the real work now
[12:05:53] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub about to brake something or make something, depending how rigid his setup is:)
[12:06:56] <archivist_ub> undercutting an escape wheel, 60 tooth verge and for a deadbeat escapement
[12:07:57] <archivist_ub> pjm I have issues with dividing accuracy of some cheap dividing setups
[12:08:28] <pjm> ah yes that figures, i was looking first for a rotary table with little backlash
[12:08:32] <archivist_ub> they can be very bad over short radial distances
[12:08:44] <pjm> but have just seen that some people are using small rightangle gearboxes
[12:09:07] <archivist_ub> depends what you are making
[12:09:40] <archivist_ub> high count gears need reasonable quality
[12:09:44] <pjm> yeah it needs reasonable accuracy i think, i want to cut some small gears out
[12:10:26] <archivist_ub> I allwayse rotate the A axis one way to try to hide its backlash
[12:11:00] <pjm> thats a good idea, do u have any form of electrical / pnumatic brake on the axis that locks it in place
[12:11:14] <archivist_ub> the vertex hv4 has 90 to 1 worm which is a nice high ration
[12:11:27] <pjm> i looked at a 4th axis for a interact-1 cnc and that seemed quite nice but i couldnt nick it
[12:11:32] <archivist_ub> no brake atm
[12:11:41] <pjm> ok i'll check out that vertex
[12:12:07] <archivist_ub> £95 from RDG
[12:13:03] <archivist_ub> claims to be ground all over, crappy holding down
[12:13:15] <archivist_ub> and lock gets in the way
[12:13:41] <archivist_ub> 6 may be a better size for your machine
[12:13:43] <pjm> oh dear
[12:14:17] <archivist_ub> I removed the brake/lock
[12:16:58] <pjm> they have a 4" rotary table for 85quid
[12:17:01] <archivist_ub> but I think I need another to build 5 axis and have a trunion type table
[12:17:57] <pjm> ah yes i'm not that far along yet! I want my machine to have 5 axis eventually
[12:18:12] <pjm> but i'll stick with the 3 + 4th axis once i build one
[12:18:33] <pjm> i need another microstep driver board for that, which means I'll have to BUY it!!
[12:18:45] <archivist_ub> Im now finding I keep moving the A axis around for each setup!!!
[12:19:41] <archivist_ub> its been a learning curve to decide what machine I need
[12:20:40] <archivist_ub> I can thing of excuses to rotate the head as well, and to have a spindle encoder
[12:20:47] <pjm> the next thing i need to fit is some rubber covers to protect the slideways etc
[12:21:04] <pjm> then after that i'm gonna try and adapt this 3ph motor and vfd to the machine
[12:21:30] <pjm> but its good so far, i've made some autobot signs for my son, and some ally boxes for electronics stuff
[12:21:35] <archivist_ub> I have a vfd and 3phase fitted
[12:21:42] <pjm> oh nice, what type?
[12:21:49] <pjm> u have probably told me that before
[12:22:17] <archivist_ub> old mitsubishi one
[12:23:01] <pjm> nice
[12:23:09] <archivist_ub> needs intefacing to emc yet
[12:23:15] <pjm> yes one of my aims is to be able to do rigid tapping
[12:23:29] <pjm> as i'm sick to death of hand tapping stuff
[12:23:31] <archivist_ub> I want to do hobbing
[12:23:50] <pjm> ah yes nice indeed
[12:24:09] <pjm> what do u make stuff for with your machine? $ or hobby?
[12:24:44] <archivist_ub> job at the moment, but boss says he is making me redundant!!
[12:24:57] <pjm> oh dear sorry to hear that
[12:25:22] <archivist_ub> he is useless at making things pay
[12:25:49] <pjm> at this rate we'll have no engineering skills left in this country
[12:26:04] <pjm> i get this lecture off me dad everytime we talk about the state of engineering
[12:26:05] <archivist_ub> he wants me to work from home for a pittance
[12:26:18] <pjm> car mechanics get more per hour than skilled CNC programmers
[12:26:25] <pjm> which is laughable
[12:27:11] <anonimasu> redurant?
[12:27:25] <archivist_ub> yup
[12:27:45] <anonimasu> meaning?
[12:28:13] <anonimasu> archivist_ub: maybe you should just change your job :)
[12:29:07] <archivist_ub> I want the rendundancy money
[12:30:21] <anonimasu> well, it's your choice to have it from behind..
[12:30:59] <anonimasu> :(
[12:34:26] <anonimasu> sorry.. working for silly low pay dosent make sense.
[12:34:50] <archivist_ub> no it doesnt
[12:35:19] <anonimasu> unless you own the company yourself.
[12:35:28] <archivist_ub> I need to get back into IT
[12:35:31] <anonimasu> that makes a bit more sense though if nescessary.
[12:36:26] <archivist_ub> losses here have not been large enough for the idiot boss to throw the towel in
[12:55:42] <archivist_ub> pjm on low ratio worm dividing I have measured up to 2/3 of a degree error
[12:56:05] <pjm> ah yes so with many teeth gears that could end up a problem
[12:59:55] <archivist_ub> we did a job here and it got returned, I then checked all the dividing heads, only the 1940's 72 to 1 on a boley jig borer was any good
[13:00:15] <anonimasu> hmm.. make new gears for them?
[13:00:24] <anonimasu> * anonimasu wishes he could do that :p
[13:01:01] <archivist_ub> you need a good hobbing machine :)
[13:01:49] <archivist_ub> I wonder how well I can make parts like that using cnc
[13:03:13] <archivist_ub> I have not measured the Vertex dividing properly yet
[13:04:00] <archivist_ub> but vernier across gear teeth seems reasonable for the price
[13:06:20] <archivist_ub> part of the negotiated redundancy I intend getting is the sliding head lathe from here, that will be fun converting to cnc
[13:07:40] <skunkworks_> cradek: http://jelinux.pico-systems.com/resolver.html
[13:12:33] <fenn> i wonder why he chose an incompletely etched board for the picture
[13:19:24] <anonimasu> etched?
[13:19:33] <anonimasu> incompletely colored.
[13:19:37] <anonimasu> err masked..
[13:20:51] <fenn> nah it looks like the etching stage just didnt run for long enough
[13:21:32] <fenn> a bad mask would have sharp edges, but this is the sort of smeared dripping from higher copper ion concentrations in solution
[13:21:59] <SWPadnos> I think that's a reflection in the lower right corner, not a board problem
[13:22:26] <fenn> that's what i thought at first, but why would it have that fabric texture?
[13:22:46] <fenn> and a board is flat, so it should be reflecting over the entire board, not just a part
[13:22:48] <SWPadnos> because that's the texture of the glass epoxy layer that the soldermask sits on
[13:23:51] <fenn> it does look like the terminal strip is blocking out the light though
[13:24:21] <SWPadnos> yep - that's the shadow between the termainls and the mounting hole
[13:24:25] <fenn> oh nevermind i'm wrong, it would be green if it were copper
[13:24:45] <SWPadnos> heh - like the traces ;)
[13:24:48] <fenn> right
[13:36:21] <cradek> neat! looks like a nice board. I bet mine should be here wednesday
[13:36:47] <skunkworks_> cool bean
[13:36:49] <skunkworks_> s
[13:37:20] <skunkworks_> you should be all set :)
[13:37:28] <cradek> yep I'm really getting there
[13:37:48] <cradek> I'm happy with my estop setup now, very important before trying any motion
[13:37:57] <archivist_ub> cutting metal this coming weekend?
[13:38:41] <cradek> archivist_ub: it seems possible but like always, everything takes longer than I expect.
[13:39:00] <skunkworks_> heh - I like it had an estop output
[13:39:01] <archivist_ub> true, best not to rush it
[13:39:09] <fenn> hofstadter's law
[13:40:00] <skunkworks_> although I would think following error would take care of it.
[13:40:23] <skunkworks_> (servo run-away)
[13:40:25] <cradek> if you lose your encoder, you can get runaway with no FE buildup
[13:40:33] <cradek> s/can/will/
[13:40:37] <skunkworks_> oh - duh
[13:41:03] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ goes to get some coffee
[13:41:15] <cradek> I intend to do a runaway detection - it's easy to tell - if the pid output saturates for more than a few cycles, stop
[13:42:06] <skunkworks_> isn't it nice having pid within emc ;)
[13:42:08] <cradek> I had a runaway with the old control (feedback coupling broke). it moves pretty fast :-)
[13:42:44] <cradek> yes that's pretty nice.
[13:43:14] <cradek> hmm, maybe pid should have a "saturated" output (or count of the number of cycles spent saturated)
[13:43:17] <cradek> brb
[13:45:54] <anonimasu> Hm..
[13:46:10] <anonimasu> cradek: scary shit.
[13:51:40] <cradek> anonimasu: it's why we have limit switches... but still it's scary.
[13:52:14] <anonimasu> they dont save your spindle when you are cutting stuff :/
[13:53:34] <cradek> yeah I'm anxious to try this saturation detection. It seems like at least as good a test as following error. if the system is tuned, the only time you get FE is when you are saturated and not keeping up, so this is a more direct way to detect it
[13:54:01] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[14:03:43] <skunkworks_> Nice message - 'pid has saturated' ;)
[14:08:05] <skunkworks_> I should send jonE some acupins and head.. I wonder if it would read it.
[14:08:19] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/pid.diff
[14:11:28] <skunkworks_> cradek: that was quick
[14:12:08] <cradek> it's simple, but I haven't tested it
[14:12:41] <skunkworks_> heh - does that ouput the number of cycles it has been saturated?
[14:12:56] <cradek> no, it's just a bit
[14:13:23] <skunkworks_> why does this look so greek to me.
[14:13:27] <skunkworks_> weird
[14:14:32] <cradek> I was thinking you could time the saturation with a counter in ladder, but the smallest time you can time is 100msec
[14:15:09] <skunkworks_> can you count within hal - how many servo cycles the bit has been high?
[14:15:09] <cradek> although that's probably an ok value...
[14:15:58] <cradek> ummmm
[14:16:34] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:16:54] <cradek> I'm trying to figure out how to do that with an existing component...
[14:17:00] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/pid-saturated-error.png <== things start to go wrong when I disconnect the pid.0.phase-A input
[14:17:23] <cradek> cool, so it works
[14:17:56] <cradek> do you think a count would be better?
[14:18:03] <jepler> in my patch I wrote a saturated-time variable but I notice that during the first 200ms or so the output isn't remaining saturated .. maybe it's because it's a very slow move, though (F.1 inch/min)
[14:18:33] <cradek> yeah I'm not positive what error condition you want to detect
[14:20:18] <cradek> in your patch, is saturated-time in periods or mumbleseconds?
[14:20:26] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/pid-saturated-error2.png
[14:20:37] <jepler> it was supposed to be in floating-point seconds but I got the scale wrong
[14:21:04] <cradek> I think it should be integer mumbleseconds
[14:21:16] <jepler> that's better for ladder?
[14:21:27] <cradek> yes
[14:22:03] <cradek> although floats are easier to compare in hal comps (I think)
[14:22:18] <jepler> s32 or u32?
[14:22:20] <cradek> I don't think there is an integer compare in hal
[14:22:32] <jepler> (for ladder)
[14:22:40] <cradek> ladder needs s32
[14:25:29] <jepler> hm -- in servo_sim, pid saturated during homing
[14:25:50] <jepler> it actually stayed saturated for a substantial period of time
[14:26:03] <cradek> interesting
[14:26:12] <cradek> does it simulate an index?
[14:26:43] <jepler> yes it uses home to index
[14:27:08] <jepler> it's after it finds the index and starts to move to the home position that it saturates
[14:27:25] <cradek> that's a rapid - I wonder if it's just not tuned well
[14:27:42] <jepler> could be
[14:28:05] <jepler> If I g0 it saturates, and if I g1f30 it doesn't.
[14:28:14] <cradek> ah
[14:28:37] <cradek> during accel or during the whole move?
[14:28:55] <jepler> during the whole move it seems
[14:30:19] <skunkworks_> that is pretty cool.
[14:30:39] <skunkworks_> jepler: did you find the issue with your missing isolation?
[14:30:57] <jepler> skunkworks_: I haven't looked at it
[14:31:29] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/pid-saturated-error3.png
[14:31:42] <jepler> cradek: I went ahead and did _ns as an s32 and _s as a float, so you can do either
[14:32:16] <cradek> that's super cool
[14:32:26] <cradek> are they debug pins or are they on by default?
[14:32:32] <jepler> default
[14:32:47] <cradek> can it safely go in 2.2?
[14:33:17] <jepler> and here's an example with the axis not moving bit the I term winding up -- no ferror but you do get saturated: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/pid-saturated-error4.png
[14:34:11] <cradek> what causes that?
[14:34:59] <jepler> setting deadband too small so that any position error causes pid output
[14:35:13] <jepler> then disconnecting feedback
[14:35:22] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:35:38] <cradek> but why doesn't it move?
[14:36:01] <jepler> I disconnected the phase-[AB] inputs to encoder
[14:36:10] <cradek> oh the 'motor' is moving but fb isn't
[14:36:15] <jepler> that's what I mean when I said "disconnecting feedback"
[14:36:27] <cradek> this is exactly the case we want to catch
[14:37:17] <cradek> whee
[14:37:36] <jepler> my patch: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/pid.c-saturation.patch
[14:40:20] <jepler> or I could put the saturation time into pid as a parameter
[14:40:23] <cradek> jepler: saturated_ns will overflow in 35 minutes
[14:41:28] <jepler> cradek: do you think that is important?
[14:41:40] <cradek> I was hoping you would know if it is
[14:42:38] <jepler> surely it's much less than 35 minutes -- it's ns, not us
[14:42:56] <jepler> it overflows in 2.1 seconds
[14:43:21] <cradek> ouch
[14:43:44] <cradek> maybe it should be in periods
[14:44:14] <cradek> I think a problem at 2.1s is important
[14:45:06] <skunkworks_> periods would be ok - let the integrator do the math.
[14:49:17] <skunkworks_> is that a 1ms servo period? if so - then if someone lowers it to say .5ms - wouldn't it overflow in 1 second?
[14:49:26] <skunkworks_> or am I thinking wrong
[14:49:56] <jepler> skunkworks_: no, it's counting nanoseconds in a variable that can only hold values up to about 2 billion.
[14:49:58] <skunkworks_> I don't think the coffee is helping
[14:50:02] <cradek> no, the time is in nanoseconds, in a s32, so it always overflows in 2^31/1e9 seconds
[14:50:15] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:50:42] <jepler> OK, revised patch has saturated_s (float) and saturated_count (s32)
[14:50:56] <cradek> I like it
[14:51:01] <jepler> saturated_count stops counting up when it reaches the maximum possible value, instead of wrapping to negative numbers
[14:51:10] <cradek> perfect
[14:51:22] <cradek> (that will take a while)
[14:51:43] <cradek> ... 2 years at 1kHz
[14:52:42] <cradek> err 24 days
[14:52:47] <cradek> I'm incapable of doing math
[14:55:09] <jepler> documentation addition: http://pastebin.ca/1178711
[14:55:46] <jepler> er, whoops, fixed pin types ..
[14:56:42] <cradek> how about "saturated at +-maxoutput" or "saturated (at +-pid.N.maxoutput)"
[14:56:47] <jepler> hm, should PID be in caps or lowercase in these: "the current pid output", "the output of pid was cotinually saturated"
[14:57:03] <cradek> to make sure everyone knows which thing is saturated
[14:57:37] <cradek> I don't know - however the rest of the manpage has it?
[14:58:37] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63047
[15:00:51] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca/1178717
[15:02:00] <jepler> skunkworks_: the link in your post doesn't work
[15:02:35] <cradek> jepler: that looks great to me
[15:03:11] <jepler> I think this is probably an improper usage of the term "open source"; Jon Elson's boards are not Open Source (he doesn't provide board schematics or FPGA source code) but it is supported by emc because he distributes the relevant programming specs.
[15:03:31] <jepler> ah the link works now -- must have been a temporary problem
[15:06:08] <jepler> site's down again -- it must be run on windows too
[15:07:59] <jepler> anyway, I'd say something more like "emc2 does not have a driver for the wincnc cards, and wincnc does not seem to publically provide the programming information necessary to write a driver". I wouldn't say "open source".
[15:08:40] <BigJohnT> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63136
[15:11:49] <cradek> the vfd doesn't need that kind of feedback does it?
[15:11:58] <cradek> I'm not sure what his goal is
[15:12:13] <BigJohnT> I was really confused :)
[15:12:17] <skunkworks_> I actually thought about that.
[15:13:03] <cradek> I've used a parport pwm output for a spindle control that takes 0-5v analog, with good success
[15:13:29] <cradek> actually my sherline is a lot like that
[15:52:54] <geantvert> geantvert is now known as cr-_-
[16:56:29] <Alagar> Dell / EMC Storage AX 4 – 5 I with – Single Storage Processor – 750 x 5 SATA HDDs
[16:56:34] <Alagar> iam new to this
[16:56:57] <Alagar> pls anybody give me advice this is good?
[16:57:27] <SWPadnos> you have the wrong EMC2 channel
[16:57:27] <pjm> good for what, running EMC on ?
[16:57:31] <SWPadnos> this is about a machine controller
[16:57:40] <SWPadnos> not a storage controller
[17:03:33] <alex_joni> Alagar: sounds nice though.. even if it's not something related to this channel
[17:11:16] <Lerman> jepler: Are you here? What is the value of the missing measurement?
[17:34:18] <alex_joni> 42
[17:40:52] <Lerman> That's the answer I expected. I just didn't know from whom.
[18:17:31] <jepler> Lerman: I don't have the object handy to measure
[20:17:47] <cradek> hey all, these are really nice if you're doing retrofit work: http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008081915145011&item=11-3201&catname=
[20:17:56] <cradek> external estop buttons
[20:18:48] <pjm> btw is there a suitable place to post 'for sale' stuff to emc-cnc'ers ? I have some spare parts left from my cnc build that I probably wont use
[20:20:30] <cradek> not that I know of...
[20:20:46] <cradek> I've seen people offer stuff informally here first, before putting things on ebay/etc. but that's it
[20:20:58] <pjm> yeah ebay is a pain, but a last resort
[20:21:09] <cradek> yeah I feel the same way
[20:21:30] <pjm> its ok to buy from sometimes, but selling can be a pain as u have to pack/weigh/price everything first
[20:21:45] <pjm> then someone from country X buys it which throws out all the postage costs
[20:21:48] <pjm> etc etc
[20:21:50] <archivist_ub> unless you stipulate collection
[20:21:56] <pjm> ah yes well there is that
[20:21:57] <cradek> specifically I don't think the emc-users list is a good place to sell things - but I am at a loss about what to recommend instead
[20:22:12] <SWPadnos> cnczone probably ;)
[20:22:18] <pjm> i have stuff like linear rails etc that i dont need
[20:22:25] <cradek> ooh, how long?
[20:22:27] <archivist_ub> hmmmmmmm
[20:22:28] <pjm> so should like a emc'er to have them
[20:22:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:22:36] <pjm> one sec i'll get the tape
[20:22:40] <pjm> measure
[20:22:55] <archivist_ub> being as Im up the road ish
[20:23:26] <pjmemc> ok 750mm long, 40mm wide
[20:23:34] <archivist_ub> oo nice
[20:23:43] <cradek> ah, too long for my project
[20:23:44] <pjmemc> with a thk-hrw27 bearing block
[20:25:04] <pjmemc> and another 1160mm X 25mm dia with 2X thompson ss6j m25 bearings / holders
[20:26:47] <pjmemc> i did cut one of the guide rails down a bit for my CNC, was bloody hard going tho
[20:27:12] <pjmemc> and also there is a spindle and motor from the old CNC router
[20:30:44] <archivist_ub> Im contemplating could I fine another couple of thk-hrw27 block and cut the bar in two to mod the x y on this beast to get better travels
[20:30:56] <pjmemc> ah yes and also a box of parts from a little-machine-shop minimill head, like the Z axis drive, the gears etc
[20:31:49] <pjmemc> i used the other slightly smaller linear rail and 2X thk mounting blocks for my Z
[20:31:54] <pjmemc> and it seems pretty solid
[20:32:30] <archivist_ub> I have two rails and 4 blocks for my Z
[20:32:53] <archivist_ub> but much lighter than those
[20:33:07] <pjmemc> http://pjm.dyndns.org/cnc/thumb/guide1.html is the linear rail / bearing
[20:33:26] <pjmemc> and http://pjm.dyndns.org/cnc/thumb/guide2.html is the round version
[21:06:36] <archivist_ub> pjm hmm found the thk pdf and had a read :)
[21:06:46] <pjm> ah right
[21:06:49] <pjm> are they any good?
[21:06:56] <pjm> its what keeps my Z on track
[21:07:39] <archivist_ub> http://www.thk.eu/EN/
[21:08:09] <archivist_ub> so many variations
[21:16:09] <pjm> archivist well let me know if this is any good for your app
[21:17:08] <archivist_ub> it could be if I can find a matching something to go with it
[21:17:46] <archivist_ub> decisions
[21:18:10] <pjm> how about a matching 25mm round bar with 2 bearings??
[21:18:59] <archivist_ub> could work, not so easy to build around
[21:19:42] <pjm> yep having used one, it was a pain, but i'm pleased with the end result
[21:21:12] <archivist_ub> I found some side play in the rotary today, I must test further before I get another