#emc | Logs for 2008-08-18

[01:43:15] <JymmmEMC> anyone recall that encoding method that only one bit at a time is changed?
[01:43:24] <JymmmEMC> used to be used in rotary encoders
[01:43:36] <SWPadnos> Huffman coding
[01:43:41] <SWPadnos> or gray code
[01:43:46] <JymmmEMC> gray code!!!
[01:43:51] <SWPadnos> must be gray code :)
[01:43:53] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: hey you, get my email?
[01:43:55] <SWPadnos> yep
[01:43:59] <JymmmEMC> k
[01:44:15] <SWPadnos> sounds plausible, no UPS should be necessary, at 10 seconds each, a day is enough
[01:44:40] <JymmmEMC> why 10s ?
[01:44:56] <SWPadnos> button pressing, pausing for relays, detecting success ...
[01:45:07] <SWPadnos> just a pessimistic guesstimate
[01:45:11] <JymmmEMC> that sounds awefully long
[01:45:51] <SWPadnos> even so, a day is enough: 86400 seconds in a day
[01:45:58] <JymmmEMC> yeah
[01:46:24] <JymmmEMC> even faster if I could read in the eeprom =)
[01:46:27] <SWPadnos> he
[01:46:29] <JymmmEMC> but, well...
[01:46:31] <SWPadnos> h
[01:47:29] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Actually... the ds says it's a 3 wire eeprom
[01:47:31] <SWPadnos> weeeeelll - if you attach the right scope to it at power-up, you just may see the data you want
[01:47:53] <JymmmEMC> that's what I was just thinking.... monitor the Rx line
[01:48:01] <SWPadnos> clock and RX
[01:48:06] <JymmmEMC> nothing invasive on that
[01:48:36] <JymmmEMC> now the question is... how?
[01:48:42] <SWPadnos> oh - it could be SPI with the chip select always on
[01:48:48] <SWPadnos> I didn't look at the datasheet
[01:48:58] <JymmmEMC> I don't have a datalogger
[01:49:12] <SWPadnos> my good scope could do it, it can decode SPI and I2C
[01:49:13] <JymmmEMC> I looked at it... and went uh huh
[01:49:19] <SWPadnos> and even trigger on an address cycle
[01:50:14] <JymmmEMC> any way to turn a paraport into a nice lil data logger?
[01:50:36] <SWPadnos> not for the speeds you'd need
[01:50:40] <JymmmEMC> k
[01:51:01] <SWPadnos> parports are no better than 1 us or so per register read/write
[01:51:32] <SWPadnos> (that's read or write, so an OUT followed immediately by an IN will take about 2 us)
[01:52:46] <JymmmEMC> it's a 1k eeprom
[01:52:56] <JymmmEMC> serial in, out, clk
[01:52:58] <SWPadnos> I'm sure only a few bytes are read out
[01:54:05] <JymmmEMC> 2MHz max, 1MHz typical
[01:54:13] <JymmmEMC> for CLK
[01:54:57] <JymmmEMC> really paraport is that slow huh, never realized that
[01:55:04] <JymmmEMC> I have a BASIC Stamp
[01:56:12] <SWPadnos> even worse, since it's interpreted
[01:56:25] <JymmmEMC> ah
[01:56:57] <JymmmEMC> but for storage purpose, if it can just keep up
[01:57:40] <SWPadnos> unless you can use the SPI port to receive characters, it's likely that it can't keep up
[01:58:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Alright, half a tank of gas, 2 packs of camels, it's night and we're wearing sunglasses... how can I read the eeprom?
[01:58:23] <SWPadnos> hit it
[01:58:50] <SWPadnos> you can use an AVR or PIC with an SPI port
[01:59:21] <JymmmEMC> oh gawd... I have a atmel SDK and some avr 90's but don't know how to use them.
[01:59:52] <SWPadnos> you could also do it via the parallel port, but not in-circuit, you'd have to remove the chip from the board (or at least lift the chip select, data and clock pins)
[02:00:21] <JymmmEMC> a lil too evasive I tink
[02:01:13] <SWPadnos> if you know anyone local who has a nice scope, you can probably snoop the data as it's read out
[02:01:18] <JymmmEMC> if I do the manual thing with relays. the only part I haven't figured out is how to sense the LED is on/off
[02:01:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: yeah you
[02:01:37] <SWPadnos> note the word "local" ;)
[02:01:46] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: note the word ONLY
[02:01:57] <SWPadnos> note the word "probably"
[02:01:59] <JymmmEMC> unless I want something from 1930's
[02:02:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:02:24] <SWPadnos> buy one from Halted and then return it ;)
[02:02:25] <JymmmEMC> would that scope I was interested in a ways back do it?
[02:02:38] <SWPadnos> that cheapo LCD jobbie? I don't think so
[02:03:24] <JymmmEMC> 20mhz
[02:03:28] <JymmmEMC> iirc
[02:03:28] <SWPadnos> you need something that either knows what the data is and logs it (like an AVR or something), or something that has a large buffer and captures the clock and data lines for a relatively long time
[02:03:37] <SWPadnos> speed isn't the issue, it's record length
[02:04:02] <JymmmEMC> 1024
[02:05:20] <SWPadnos> well, it could possibly work then, as long as you need <256 bits or so. you need at least 2 samples per clock edge, and there are two edges per bit
[02:06:14] <SWPadnos> and all this assumes that the code is plaintext, which it may not be
[02:06:20] <JymmmEMC> well, I don't have a scope, so kinda scratches that
[02:10:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: are optos the way to go to iface with the keypad?
[02:10:32] <SWPadnos> dunno, what kind of keypad is it?
[02:10:38] <JymmmEMC> 3x4 matrix
[02:10:48] <SWPadnos> so there are 7 wires coming out?
[02:11:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: the meypad, uC, and eeprom are all on the safe PCB
[02:11:19] <JymmmEMC> same
[02:11:54] <SWPadnos> ok, is it a bunch of buttons that contact lands on the PCB?
[02:12:09] <JymmmEMC> yep, just like your tv RC
[02:12:21] <JymmmEMC> rubbery thingy
[02:12:39] <SWPadnos> ok, and does it look like there are common wires going horizontally and vertically?
[02:12:46] <JymmmEMC> yep
[02:12:50] <JymmmEMC> well, traces
[02:12:54] <SWPadnos> sure
[02:13:35] <SWPadnos> that's relatively good, you'll need to see which side is pulled high and which is pulled low
[02:14:03] <JymmmEMC> compare to GND?
[02:14:10] <SWPadnos> it's a PITA to connect to that though, since you probably need to contact a row and column together, not to GND/VCC
[02:14:21] <SWPadnos> yes, but with a scope, not a meter
[02:14:42] <JymmmEMC> ok, so I guess back to reed relays then
[02:14:43] <SWPadnos> a meter could possiby tell you something, but it's pretty unlikely to be helpful
[02:14:56] <SWPadnos> relays are OK, but you may need 12 of them
[02:15:09] <JymmmEMC> though I guess I could trace them back the uC and see what pins each connect with
[02:15:14] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:15:14] <JymmmEMC> 12?
[02:15:21] <SWPadnos> 12, one for each key
[02:15:29] <JymmmEMC> 7
[02:15:41] <SWPadnos> ok, 7 + a bus could do it
[02:15:43] <JymmmEMC> +1 for battery pack
[02:16:05] <SWPadnos> no, you can't just connect to V+ or GND, you have to connect the correct row to the correct column
[02:16:13] <JymmmEMC> in sw
[02:16:29] <SWPadnos> otherwise it looks like there's a stuck key
[02:16:30] <JymmmEMC> only one relay at a time would be on
[02:16:33] <SWPadnos> nope
[02:16:56] <JymmmEMC> well, ok two max
[02:17:22] <JymmmEMC> it's much easier to encode in SW than to add additioanl hw
[02:17:25] <cradek> what are you trying to do?
[02:17:33] <JymmmEMC> cradek: crack the safe
[02:17:36] <SWPadnos> I'll bet that the way that keypad works is that the processor outputs a high (or low) on each of the 3 columns in sequence, and reads the 4 row bits when each column is energized
[02:17:37] <cradek> pretend to be a keypad?
[02:17:40] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:17:46] <cradek> ah
[02:18:11] <cradek> grid of optos?
[02:18:13] <SWPadnos> so you can't just pull a row high, or it will think there are 3 keys pressed at the same time
[02:18:36] <cradek> to do it in software you'd have to read the scan and output at the right time
[02:18:55] <cradek> with a grid of optos you'd just turn one on and wait a while for it to be read
[02:18:56] <SWPadnos> you can do it with 7 relays, by having 3 column relays and 4 row relays, and connecting the "other end" of all the relays together
[02:19:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: that's not much different than just holding in a button
[02:19:28] <SWPadnos> well, you need the opto to be energized at the right time, and an opto could cause problems depending on the scan rate
[02:19:38] <JymmmEMC> I'll probably have a harder time on the mechanical timing than anything else.
[02:19:51] <cradek> if you had an opto for each button, you'd just leave it on long enough to be scanned a few times
[02:19:53] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ok, reed relays
[02:20:07] <cradek> yeah, opto or relay
[02:20:28] <SWPadnos> optos or relays don't really matter, with the slight advantage to relays that you don't care about the polarity
[02:20:47] <SWPadnos> and the slight advantage to toptos that they're quiet, faster, and have no contact bounce ;)
[02:20:48] <cradek> relays are harder to drive
[02:21:12] <SWPadnos> that's true in general, but not really an issue for small reed relays
[02:21:12] <cradek> contact bounce is no worse than a keypad I'm sure
[02:21:33] <jmkasunich> got a reply from Greg Jackson
[02:21:38] <SWPadnos> carbon pill keypads are surprisingly clean (not perfect, just surprising)
[02:21:43] <jmkasunich> he said there was a $5 handling fee, and he has lowered it to $2
[02:21:51] <SWPadnos> on?
[02:22:14] <jmkasunich> an ebay auction that seemed to be playing the "cheap item, rape them on shipping" trick
[02:22:24] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=310074742697&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=021
[02:22:32] <SWPadnos> ah
[02:27:12] <JymmmEMC> These eight I/O lines comprise Port A. PA6 and PA7 are open-drained pins with
[02:27:12] <JymmmEMC> pull-up devices whereas PA0 to PA5 are push-pull pins with pull-down devices.
[02:27:12] <JymmmEMC> PA4 to PA7 are also capable of sinking 8mA.
[02:27:46] <JymmmEMC> These six I/O lines comprise Port B. PB0, PB3 to PB5 are push-pull I/O lines with
[02:27:46] <JymmmEMC> pull-down resistor. PB1 and PB2 are open-drain I/O lines with pull-up resistor.
[02:27:57] <SWPadnos> yes, and?
[02:28:07] <SWPadnos> are those the ports the keypad is connected to?
[02:28:13] <JymmmEMC> in respect to your scanning method
[02:28:41] <JymmmEMC> at least some of them, others to the EEPROM I'd suspect. would have to trace them out first.
[02:29:14] <SWPadnos> hopefully hte keypad connects to 7 port pins and that's all (except maybe some caps and pull-up/downs)
[02:29:36] <JymmmEMC> ok, lets assume that is the case.
[02:30:11] <JymmmEMC> They only thing I can't figure out is how to tell if the GRN or RED led is on/off. Use a phorodiode maybe?
[02:32:05] <SWPadnos> you should be able to connect directly to the driven pin on the LED
[02:32:26] <JymmmEMC> is that a "good idea"?
[02:32:51] <SWPadnos> or even better, find the processor pin that drives the transistor to turn it on, and directly connect there
[02:33:21] <SWPadnos> sure, it shouldn't hurt anything - it's very likely connected to a 5V supply
[02:33:40] <SWPadnos> but you should make sure of that before connecting to it, if it runs on 4 batteries, it could be a problem
[02:33:46] <SWPadnos> (if it runs on 3, that's a different problem)
[02:33:48] <SWPadnos> err - 2
[02:33:53] <JymmmEMC> 6VDC
[02:33:57] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[02:34:01] <SWPadnos> then use a resistor ;)
[02:34:12] <JymmmEMC> =)
[02:34:37] <JymmmEMC> ok, lets say a non evasive route.... would a photodiode do the trick?
[02:34:53] <SWPadnos> maybe
[02:35:21] <SWPadnos> probably even, but it may be a pain to tune, since you can't test sensitivity levels until tjhe light turns on
[02:35:43] <JymmmEMC> ah
[02:36:13] <JymmmEMC> is there such a thing as a SMT "chip clip" ?
[02:36:21] <SWPadnos> sure
[02:36:36] <SWPadnos> they're not exactly cheap, but they're readily available
[02:36:50] <JymmmEMC> < $20 ?
[02:37:10] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[02:37:21] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos looks at digikey
[02:37:27] <JymmmEMC> its either a 16 or 20p SOIC
[02:37:32] <SWPadnos> 20
[02:38:18] <SWPadnos> in the $15-$40 range, it seems
[02:38:30] <JymmmEMC> url?
[02:39:18] <SWPadnos> uh - hold on a sec, I have an unusable search URL at the moment
[02:39:45] <SWPadnos> http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=923665-20-ND
[02:40:17] <JymmmEMC> OH, okey... I think I can get one of those from frys
[02:40:26] <SWPadnos> or Halted
[02:41:02] <JymmmEMC> that make it MUCh easier to physically interface to.
[02:41:54] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:42:29] <SWPadnos> you should find that the keypad is 7 pins, the LEDs are 2 pins, and you can probably tweak the reset pin instead of removing power
[02:42:46] <SWPadnos> the question is, what does it send down those 3 wires into the safe>
[02:42:48] <SWPadnos> ?
[02:43:41] <JymmmEMC> Yeah... nfc there... but as long as I can bypass the lockout timers from the external electronics. I'm good
[02:44:10] <SWPadnos> oh - the lockout isn't on the keypad board - well, you may need another relay there :)
[02:44:30] <JymmmEMC> and removing the power and replacing it makes it instant
[02:44:57] <JymmmEMC> It probably is on the ext PCB. the battery connects to the kypb PCB
[02:45:21] <SWPadnos> be careful there, repeated power cycles may have bad effects on the EEPROM. I've seen them get corrupted before
[02:45:57] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, I'll have 100K tries to find out =)
[02:46:01] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:46:26] <JymmmEMC> the ds says 1M write cycles =)
[02:46:26] <SWPadnos> at least it's usually the first byte only that gets screwed up. if there are 3 codes, then 2 of them should still work
[02:46:39] <JymmmEMC> 3 possible...
[02:46:45] <JymmmEMC> 1 definantly
[02:48:50] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ok, if I use the pins from the uC to determine which LEDs are on, how should I iFace that to paraport pin?
[02:49:20] <SWPadnos> with some series resistors, since it's a 6V board
[02:49:38] <JymmmEMC> I shouldn't isolate it?
[02:49:39] <SWPadnos> you may not be able to pull up with the PC
[02:49:54] <SWPadnos> is it connected to mains power or big nasty motors?
[02:50:05] <JymmmEMC> the PC is
[02:50:12] <SWPadnos> sure, but the safe isn't
[02:50:19] <JymmmEMC> not yet =)
[02:50:30] <SWPadnos> stick it on a wooden bench and don't bother with isolation
[02:50:42] <JymmmEMC> what, the safe?
[02:50:44] <SWPadnos> just don't drop any bare AC wires on it
[02:50:46] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:50:48] <JymmmEMC> HA!
[02:50:50] <JymmmEMC> HA!
[02:50:51] <JymmmEMC> HA!
[02:50:52] <SWPadnos> it's battery operated, isn't it?
[02:50:56] <JymmmEMC> yeah
[02:51:07] <SWPadnos> so, leave it on the concrete floor - no big deal
[02:51:46] <JymmmEMC> well, lets pretend I might fubar and set a pin as output
[02:53:34] <SWPadnos> if you'r eusing series resistors, then you won't have a problem
[02:53:55] <SWPadnos> all your outputs will be through relays
[02:54:18] <JymmmEMC> this would be input from the pins on the uC to the Q's to the LED's
[02:54:21] <SWPadnos> isolating the safe from the PC won't help you if a wire falls on the parport connector itself (and an output is shorted to another output at the PC)
[02:54:46] <a-l-p-h-a> what's been fun lately in this chan... I haven't had much change to hang out in here these days.
[02:55:01] <SWPadnos> those will swing from 0 to ~6V, so you use a - (picks number our of the air) 4.7k resistor
[02:55:14] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ok, ok
[02:55:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:55:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: btw.. come pick up your UPS damnit!
[02:55:54] <SWPadnos> all I want is my ferrule crimpers and ferrules ;)
[02:56:14] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: do you really thinkg hitting the RESET line would do in place of cycling power?
[02:56:39] <SWPadnos> if the timeout is controlled by the micro then yes. if it's controlled by the internal electronics, then no
[02:56:45] <JymmmEMC> k
[02:57:40] <SWPadnos> a-l-p-h-a, no clue, I've been traveling for a couple of weeks
[03:00:12] <a-l-p-h-a> SWPadnos, fun, where to?
[03:00:36] <SWPadnos> Steven's Point Wisconsin and Dallas (Texas)
[03:04:26] <a-l-p-h-a> austin was kick ass, when I went to sxsw.
[03:04:33] <a-l-p-h-a> early march.
[03:05:52] <SWPadnos> Austin is a lot nicer than Dallas
[03:06:38] <a-l-p-h-a> Austin was beautiful. Friendly city.
[03:06:41] <SWPadnos> some very cool recumbent bikes here: http://www.velokraft.com/+products.htm
[03:06:46] <SWPadnos> yep, not like Texas at all ;)
[03:07:05] <SWPadnos> they're generally friendly, but not so much if you don't like country music and republicans
[03:07:08] <a-l-p-h-a> if I didn't live in Toronto, I would move like to live in Austin.
[03:07:20] <a-l-p-h-a> Austin has all sorts of music.
[03:07:24] <a-l-p-h-a> especially as sxsw
[03:07:25] <SWPadnos> one of my sisters and one of my cousins used to live there, it's a nice place
[03:07:29] <SWPadnos> sxsw?
[03:07:39] <a-l-p-h-a> south by south west.
[03:07:44] <SWPadnos> I met my wife there actually
[03:07:44] <a-l-p-h-a> sxsw is the short form.
[03:07:45] <SWPadnos> ah
[03:09:29] <SWPadnos> it's time for me to hit the hay, night everyone
[03:09:40] <a-l-p-h-a> nite swp.
[03:09:46] <a-l-p-h-a> I'm off as well.
[04:15:19] <Jym> Jym is now known as JymmmEMC
[04:29:57] <LawrenceG> hi guys.... added a new gcode generator to http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
[04:30:23] <LawrenceG> it engraves volume control bezels
[04:32:45] <LawrenceG> thanks to BigJohnT's work
[06:17:14] <micges> good morning
[06:17:59] <toastydeath> yo
[06:44:22] <alex_joni> hi
[09:39:24] <micges> alex_joni: there are many changes in 2.3 version, when it will be available ?
[09:57:58] <ra3vat> ra3vat is now known as dimas_
[10:17:10] <alex_joni> micges: I guess the answer is .. when it's ready
[10:17:35] <alex_joni> but that means we need to stop adding new features, and start the testing phase
[10:17:57] <alex_joni> there are a couple of things I wanted to add, but I think they won't make it for 2.3
[10:25:51] <micges> somewhere I readed that in about 6 months
[10:26:28] <micges> could you list what you want to add ?
[10:28:19] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Alex_Joni
[10:49:09] <alex_joni> micges: then there are things from here: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=356744&group_id=6744&func=browse
[10:50:30] <alex_joni> micges: and here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EmcFeatures
[11:08:33] <micges> alex_joni: and you want to do it alone ?
[11:08:35] <micges> :P
[12:03:50] <alex_joni> micges: when I get around to do it.. which lately didn't look very good
[12:51:06] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[13:16:08] <skunkworks_> scary
[13:16:09] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63013
[13:17:51] <SWPadnos> ho-lee-shit
[13:18:05] <SWPadnos> "When i push stop button Z goto zero automatic" ???
[13:18:20] <SWPadnos> that's a big safety violation
[13:18:30] <SWPadnos> (but of course possible with HAL ;) )
[13:18:44] <skunkworks_> heh
[13:18:56] <cradek> bad idea bad idea
[13:18:59] <skunkworks_> back from your trip?
[13:19:14] <archivist_ub> just creep past my jig and awkward shapes as well
[13:19:33] <SWPadnos> skunkworksyep
[13:19:36] <SWPadnos> +,
[13:20:11] <SWPadnos> I saw one of these in Stevens Point: http://www.velokraft.com/-vk2.htm
[13:20:57] <cradek> now if he means automatic-quill-up-at-M2 I'm all for that kind of option
[13:21:08] <skunkworks_> Neat
[13:21:09] <cradek> but if he means go up at abort/estop he's just wrong
[13:21:36] <SWPadnos> indeed
[13:21:59] <cradek> hm, he explicitly says "When i push stop button"
[13:22:18] <SWPadnos> yeah, but who knows what kind of stop button it is: optional stop, pause, estop ...
[13:22:28] <SWPadnos> I guess someone could ask :)
[13:22:47] <rayh> Hi guys.
[13:22:52] <SWPadnos> hi Ray
[13:23:01] <rayh> Interesting thoughts.
[13:23:01] <cradek> SWPadnos: not me!
[13:23:05] <skunkworks_> Good morning
[13:23:11] <SWPadnos> I'm doing it - I'm a glutton for punishment
[13:23:22] <skunkworks_> heh
[13:23:29] <cradek> WOO WOOOO (train wreck sound)
[13:23:35] <rayh> Keith Rumley did some work on this kind of stuff in his version of the interp.
[13:23:51] <cradek> which stuff?
[13:24:12] <SWPadnos> chugga chugga chugga chugga
[13:24:12] <rayh> Machine logic. What happens when ???
[13:24:20] <cradek> ah
[13:24:23] <cradek> oops brb
[13:24:36] <SWPadnos> that subject sprung to mind when cradek mentioned M2
[13:24:52] <_Poincare> _Poincare is now known as Poincare
[13:26:55] <rayh> There are a fixed set of assumptions made in the interpreter.
[13:28:18] <rayh> His notion was that these assumed behaviors should be variable and read from the ini file.
[13:28:49] <rayh> I tend more to favor making them variable as a part of task planning.
[13:28:51] <SWPadnos> yep, something like the card stack idea we've discussed, with the cards coming from a config file
[13:29:05] <rayh> But then we did quite a bit of thinking about that some time ago.
[13:29:10] <rayh> Exactly
[13:37:55] <Lerman> I would make them variable by having integrator/user defined g/m codes.
[13:38:14] <SWPadnos> G/M codes would also be defined by a sequence of primitives
[13:38:34] <SWPadnos> with configurable preconditions/postconditions
[13:40:04] <Lerman> We probably already have most of the primitives we need. Turn an output signal on/off, sense an input signal. Coordiated move to a location in X, Y, Z at a specified rate.
[13:40:33] <SWPadnos> SMOP! :)
[13:41:33] <Lerman> At two levels. First, I need to add the user defined g/m code stuff (and some more introspection). Then the integrator can "simply" program what he wants in gcode.
[13:42:03] <SWPadnos> sure, with the appropriate safeguards against circular definitions
[13:42:57] <Lerman> My "plan" is that within the user defined codes, the original ones can be accessed -- say by using G-1 to mean use the original defn of G1.
[13:46:41] <rayh> IMO the original definition ought to be default if G! is used without any parameter
[13:46:48] <rayh> G1
[13:47:01] <Lerman> Hmmm. The disk seems to have died (at least partially) on my machine running EMC. I guess it's someones way of telling me to upgrade to EMC2.
[13:47:53] <cradek> Lerman: sounds like I can simply change my system so M6 <- (G30, then M6)
[13:47:56] <cradek> that's nice.
[13:48:09] <Lerman> Exactly.
[13:49:27] <Lerman> Or, redefine G1 X.. Y.. to be original G1 xsin[theta] ycos[theta] to use rotated coordinates.
[13:50:06] <SWPadnos> I'd say that's a kinematics function
[13:50:17] <SWPadnos> you wouldn't want the DRO to look funny ;)
[13:50:54] <cradek> yeah, seems like everything would work goofily if you did that
[13:51:05] <cradek> brb again
[13:51:10] <Lerman> Well, if it were a small rotation that amounted to a few thousandths, it wouldn't look to funny.
[13:51:16] <SWPadnos> (ie, I program G1X1Y0 and it moves to X0Y1 because it's rotated 90 degrees ...)
[13:51:16] <Lerman> to -> too
[13:51:57] <Lerman> The 90 degree case is easy to (mentally) deal with. The 45 degree case would be awkward.
[13:52:37] <SWPadnos> I would be very concerned when my X and Y axes appeared to swap with each other ...
[13:52:43] <SWPadnos> (more or less)
[13:52:48] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: add some Z or A in there
[13:55:01] <Lerman> ...another topic... If I run from the CD, can I access my hard drive so that I can look at my old .ini file?
[13:55:21] <Lerman> Does networking generally work?
[13:55:24] <SWPadnos> yes and yes
[13:55:47] <Lerman> I would like to start with my old .ini file when I do the latest EMC install.
[13:56:09] <Lerman> (I would hate to have to retune my servos.)
[13:56:10] <SWPadnos> you can also install to a different hard disk, then plug the old one into the same machine and read files from it
[13:57:00] <Lerman> Hmm. I might just do that. Since the problem is that my old drive didn't fsck too well and I can't boot it.
[14:00:48] <jepler> try the live cd -- I think you get icons for detected drives. if that works you can copy the config to a usb flash drive or whatever
[14:03:13] <Lerman> Thanks guys. I'm downloading now. 1 hour 29 minutes remaining.
[14:05:33] <jepler> Lerman: whart's it mean when (debug,#xxx) prints ###### instead of a number?
[14:07:38] <alex_joni> maybe xxx is ##### ?
[14:07:42] <Lerman> I believe the number is out of range. I forget what format the sprintf uses. Is it #xxx or #<xxx>? If the later, it could be that the named parameter can't be found. I'll take a look at the code.
[14:09:11] <jepler> it's a number
[14:10:01] <jepler> lerman: that was exactly right. thanks.
[14:10:46] <Lerman> Which was exactly right? Looking at the code, it puts in the ##### when it can't find the paramter. For whatever reason.
[14:11:20] <jepler> that my number was out of range
[14:11:34] <alex_joni> xxx was out of range?
[14:11:38] <Lerman> If the param number is negative or greater than RS274NGC_MAX_PARAMETERS.
[14:11:45] <SWPadnos> keystone coders
[14:11:47] <Lerman> greater than or equal to.
[14:12:03] <alex_joni> RS274NGC_MAX_PARAMETERS=5400
[14:12:45] <Lerman> alex_joni: is that off the top of your head or did you look that up.
[14:14:07] <Lerman> Good news is that I've now downloaded 9%. Bad news is that the new remaining time is 2 hours 20 minutes.
[14:14:43] <Lerman> As I make progress, it keeps giving me longer estimates. Does that mean that the last .0001 percent will take almost forever? :-)
[14:15:54] <SWPadnos> it's like lightspeed
[14:21:46] <alex_joni> Lerman: depends how fast you are moving away from the download source
[14:21:50] <alex_joni> * alex_joni grins
[14:22:11] <Lerman> Too fast, it seems.
[15:24:21] <tom1> cradek: re contactor with nc contact. i buy 'aux' contacts that snap onto the sides of the contactor. common on std frame sizes. They are mechanically driven by an extension of the solenoid. Usually a single aux has both nc and no contacts. like <15$ for the Aux.
[15:27:11] <cradek> tom1: thanks for the hint
[15:27:50] <tom1> re: integrator defined g/m codes. the system i'm working on now has all m codes as text files. but it also preparses all program to be run (except in drip-feed mode for long progs), The longest prog i'
[15:28:05] <tom1> ve used parses faster than i can press enter
[15:29:23] <tom1> cradek, you usually remove the side stickers to see the actuator hole and tapered dove tails the aux slips into
[15:31:28] <tom1> bbl ( ubu-update requires reboot:(
[18:06:39] <LawrenceG> BigJohnT, hi... added another gcode generator http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
[18:36:01] <jepler> oooh pretty picture http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080818.html
[19:43:24] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[20:36:18] <BigJohnT> hi LawrenceG
[21:07:30] <tomp> parport b/o board with & w/o optos http://www.sunrom.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=96&sunid=jajosb7bbuut2u3hm2jcibh9n4
[21:12:50] <alex_joni> hmm.. 60$ seems a bit much
[21:13:33] <tomp> yeh, but then its done too, so depends on how handy/blind you are ;)
[21:13:59] <alex_joni> I'd rather pay 120$ on a gecko, than 60$ on this :P
[21:14:21] <tomp> eh? oh yeh better quality item
[21:16:02] <tomp> use any 'linear actuators'? any prefered vendors (ina/skf/thk/rexroth...)?
[21:27:44] <alex_joni> any of the above :)
[21:27:56] <alex_joni> usually skf and rexroth
[21:28:57] <tomp> thx ( leaning towards rexroth, customer already uses it so it likely will work :)
[21:29:47] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:38:20] <tomp> gnite alex
[21:58:13] <jepler> hm, this guy ended up going down to a paltry 2in/min for cutting out circuit boards with his wolfgang engineering spindle: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-41190.html
[21:58:27] <jepler> I'd hate to go that low -- cutting out the board could take more time than cutting traces!
[22:10:05] <tomp> still sounds like an good trace cutting spindle ( and a PC router can be used to cut the board out )
[22:12:35] <tomp> porter cable router
[22:12:48] <jepler> I'd rather do it all on one cnc machine though
[22:13:25] <tomp> right, it just seemed easy to chg spindles on those
[22:13:39] <jepler> when it's cutting out well, the results are very good -- nice clean edge. but it's true that the speed dips
[22:14:38] <tomp> chg the motor? move the drive belt to the big motor?
[22:15:16] <jepler> changing the motor might improve things some
[22:15:45] <tomp> we dont got no stinking gear shift, we got motor swap ;)
[22:25:30] <toastydeath> hello friends
[22:26:12] <jepler> hi toastydeath
[22:33:05] <cr-_-> hello
[22:35:27] <toastydeath> hola
[22:39:17] <cr-_-> I try to get a pcmcia to parallel card to work with the live cd but i do not
[22:39:54] <cradek> right, that will not work
[22:40:13] <cradek> you need a real parallel port, either on the motherboard, or on a pci card
[22:40:44] <cr-_-> what is the problem with pcmcia ?
[22:41:10] <cradek> for EMC to run stepper motors it must access the parallel port directly and in realtime. pcmcia does not allow this.
[22:41:39] <cr-_-> thank you for the answer
[22:42:30] <cradek> you're welcome
[22:42:42] <cr-_-> I have found some mispellings on the french documentations pages how I can report them ?
[22:45:16] <jepler> the primary editor of the french documentation is Francis TISSERANT <tissf AT free DOT fr>
[22:46:20] <cr-_-> ok i will contact him :)
[22:47:02] <jepler> that's great, we always want to hear how to improve the project
[22:47:51] <CanSir> Hi jepler!
[22:48:26] <jepler> so I have something that my mill cut which should be rectangular, but I measure the two diagonals as 4415 and 4428 mils respectively. is that enough data to figure out how skew my X and Y axes are?
[22:48:38] <jepler> hello CanSir
[22:49:07] <CanSir> Your help the other day got me going with the joypad.
[22:49:15] <jepler> oh great -- glad to hear it
[22:49:34] <toastydeath> jepler: not really?
[22:49:36] <jepler> what's next to configure on your machine then?
[22:50:13] <toastydeath> i mean if you do the trig you might be able to fudge it pretty close.
[22:50:28] <toastydeath> as long as you know how it was sitting on the table before you took it off
[22:51:02] <jepler> oh the cuts were entirely axis-aligned .. two edges cut by pure X move, two edges cut by pure Y move
[22:51:13] <toastydeath> right
[22:51:20] <toastydeath> do the trig, make the adjustment and see what happens
[22:51:46] <toastydeath> it's not the canonical test, but it should get you close enough for government work
[22:52:40] <toastydeath> how stable are the measurements across the diagonal?
[22:52:44] <CanSir> :-D Well, I'm not 100% done with the joypad yet, but the basics are working. Trying to get fancy now with the variable jog speed buttons.
[22:53:10] <jepler> toastydeath: it's a thin piece so I can't measure the diagonal at different depths
[22:53:25] <toastydeath> well i meant like, in the same spot
[22:53:36] <toastydeath> if you take the same measurement 5 times, do you get the exact same answer each time
[22:53:53] <jepler> within about 2 mils
[22:53:58] <toastydeath> kewl
[22:54:12] <jepler> which is pretty good compared to the total amount, but not very big compared to the differenec
[22:54:23] <toastydeath> do you have an angle plate
[22:54:33] <toastydeath> or any other 90 degree angle reference
[22:54:47] <jepler> nope
[22:54:53] <toastydeath> then do eet
[23:01:50] <jepler> hm I don't trust my trig
[23:02:11] <toastydeath> also be sure to measure the leg lengths
[23:02:22] <toastydeath> like, the bottom and top, and left and right sides
[23:02:39] <toastydeath> because you might have taper as well
[23:02:48] <toastydeath> and that will screw you up if you don't take it into account
[23:04:57] <toastydeath> then you'll have a good idea of what adjustment you have to make, and once you line up a parallel and bolt it down
[23:05:05] <toastydeath> make your adjustment
[23:08:14] <jepler> beats me how I would just skewness on this plastic monstrosity anyway. maybe try to correct it inside emc with kinematics.
[23:08:36] <toastydeath> there's no way to loosen some bolts?
[23:08:44] <toastydeath> is it a bed mill?
[23:09:10] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/files/01188441458/img_7045-medium.jpg
[23:09:32] <toastydeath> hmmm
[23:09:40] <jepler> a router I guess you'd call it
[23:10:16] <toastydeath> look at how the wayshafts attach to the machine and see if there's any way to get play in either the X or Y
[23:10:37] <toastydeath> that's all I can think of
[23:11:39] <toastydeath> but i'd be a little careful with the X axis, i would be concerned about screwing up the Z axis alignment
[23:11:53] <toastydeath> but that seems like any adjustment might make a difference to Z
[23:11:55] <toastydeath> hmm
[23:12:33] <jepler> I'll try not worrying about it until I see how double-sided boards come out
[23:12:57] <toastydeath> kewl
[23:24:22] <dmess> a toe clamp should adjust that once you nest the rest ov the mahine base
[23:52:48] <dmess> or just shim in/ shim out... with the end sections