#emc | Logs for 2008-08-17

[00:08:28] <jepler> oh cool -- I just got mail from the maker of the zenbot. he says he is interested in switching to emc for his production machine. I told him to drop by on IRC with his questions
[00:08:44] <jepler> (hopefully he doesn't take the last line of my last blog entry too personally :-P)
[00:09:03] <jepler> tom1: "jury it"?
[00:09:14] <tom1> review it
[00:10:49] <tom1> 7pm, got the panel laid out, but just yanked a stem out of the bike tire, so wont be riding tonite... well i can always go home and mow the lawn ;)
[00:12:05] <cradek> jmkasunich: how much DC can I safely switch with an AC relay (contactor)?
[00:12:36] <jmkasunich> cradek: complicated question
[00:13:06] <jmkasunich> very dependent on voltage, nature of load, whether you will actually be switching it (on or off under load, vs unloaded or estop only), etc
[00:13:15] <cradek> well let me tell you what I want to do
[00:13:22] <tom1> they often have ac and dc ratings. find a comparable contactor that has such (P&B Eaton Arrow)
[00:14:02] <cradek> I have a main estop relay. one side of it switches 110 AC to pretty much all of the machine except the two motors
[00:14:05] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich has noodles boiling (just got done unloading the truck and some other stuff) - gonna be around later?
[00:14:12] <cradek> ah yep
[00:14:16] <cradek> but I'll keep typing anyway
[00:14:19] <cradek> the other side is not used
[00:14:24] <jmkasunich> I'll read back
[00:14:31] <cradek> I want to use it to break the DC bus between the caps and servo amps
[00:14:46] <cradek> the original control never removed power from the servo drives - it was hardwired
[00:16:36] <cradek> "Allen Bradley Bulletin 700 Type N AC Relay NEMA A300"
[00:43:37] <CanSir> hello
[00:45:16] <jepler> hello CanSir
[00:45:36] <CanSir> Whew! I thought I was in the wrong channel or something! :-)
[00:45:59] <jepler> sometimes it's busy and sometimes it's quiet
[00:46:41] <CanSir> Would it be rude of me to just jump right in and ask for help with an issue?
[00:46:55] <jepler> that's how we do it -- you ask, and if somebody knows, he'll answer
[00:48:32] <CanSir> I am trying to connect a joypad up to do the jogging on my machine and I'm having some troubles.
[00:49:36] <CanSir> Anybody here familiar with halrun and device names ?
[00:51:10] <jepler> if you're using hal_input but it's not finding your device, the most common problem is not doing the steps under "PERMISSIONS AND UDEV"
[00:51:50] <CanSir> That's sounds like it might be my problem alright.
[00:53:04] <CanSir> I've followed a couple of different examples and only one mentioned the Udev stuff. Linux terminal scares me. ;)
[00:53:17] <jepler> OK, I'll try to walk you through it step by step. you will have to ues a terminal, though
[00:53:40] <jepler> step 1. open up the terminal window
[00:53:52] <CanSir> Thanks jepler - unfortunately I can't right now though because my machine is busy cutting.
[00:54:01] <jepler> OK, well save this for later then
[00:54:12] <jepler> step 2. enter this command: sudo gedit /etc/udev.d/rules.d/98-inputx.rules
[00:54:15] <CanSir> will do.
[00:54:29] <jepler> step 3. in the window that pops up, type this line: SUBSYSTEM="input", mode="0660", group="plugdev"
[00:54:33] <jepler> step 4. save and exit
[00:54:41] <jepler> step 5. re-plug your input device and try hal_input again
[00:55:34] <CanSir> How do you save and exit? Control-Z ?
[00:55:54] <jepler> the window that pops up has a fairly typical menu bar. use File > Quit
[00:56:03] <jepler> then choose "save" when it prompts you
[00:56:23] <CanSir> Hehehe. OK. Sounds pretty fool-proof. I'll test it just to be sure though!
[00:56:27] <jepler> OK
[00:56:34] <jepler> I might not be around later but hopefully someone else will be
[00:56:48] <CanSir> I appreciate your help jepler!
[00:56:54] <jepler> you're welcome
[01:00:04] <jmkasunich> cradek: back, reading
[01:01:23] <jmkasunich> I would not put a contactor between caps and drives
[01:02:21] <jmkasunich> if the drives don't have a sizable cap inside, they are relying on the main cap to absorb both inductive and regenerated energy, removing the cap may allow the bus voltage at the amps to get too high - bang
[01:03:13] <jmkasunich> if the drives _do_ have a sizable cap inside, then when the contactor closes, large charged cap in supply delivers a huge inrush current to large uncharged cap in drive, which tries to sell the contactor contacts shut
[01:04:19] <cradek> the drives have no caps of any consequence
[01:04:50] <cradek> well, what I mean is I was hoping to split between the caps and drives
[01:04:56] <cradek> each one had a large cap mounted next to it
[01:05:19] <cradek> large = 10000 uF, 125V
[01:05:30] <jmkasunich> that cap should remain connected to the drive
[01:05:41] <cradek> ok
[01:06:00] <jmkasunich> what is your concern? making it stop ASAP?
[01:06:02] <cradek> so I just can't or shouldn't break the input voltage with estop?
[01:06:05] <cradek> yes
[01:06:16] <jmkasunich> you can break the input, but not between cap and anp
[01:06:18] <jmkasunich> amp
[01:06:37] <jmkasunich> breaking it between diodes and cap is fine, as is breaking the primary of the transformer
[01:07:12] <jmkasunich> the bad news is that each of those leaves the amp with a cap's worth of energy that it can try to use to kill you
[01:08:24] <cradek> yeah that leaves me not-very-happy
[01:08:39] <cradek> or, don't bother, and trust the amps to disable when you tell them to (the original design)
[01:08:41] <jmkasunich> are these mosfet based PWM amps?
[01:08:57] <cradek> I think so
[01:09:18] <jmkasunich> if you can find a contactor with NO and NC contacts, you can make a very nice setup
[01:09:26] <jmkasunich> NO contact feeds power from diodes to cap
[01:09:44] <cradek> they are pwm, not sure how to tell if they are mosfet
[01:09:50] <jmkasunich> NC contact connects big honking resistor across cap
[01:10:03] <jmkasunich> mosfet doesn't really matter, as long as its PWM
[01:10:11] <jmkasunich> that means there will be flyback diodes
[01:10:22] <mozroute> we use fets through a power resistor to dump the caps to ground when we shutdown our power supplies
[01:10:46] <jmkasunich> if there are flyback diodes, as you discharge the DC bus (mr. big honking R), the diodes will turn on and the resistor is effectively right across the motor - which gives you braking
[01:14:07] <cradek> that sounds great. I wish I had the parts to do it.
[01:14:23] <jmkasunich> yeah, contactors with NC contacts are hard to find
[01:14:31] <jmkasunich> resistors not so hard
[01:14:53] <jmkasunich> how many amps do you need?
[01:16:05] <cradek> the fuse is 30 A
[01:18:44] <jmkasunich> what voltage?
[01:20:09] <cradek> it runs at 90vdc
[01:20:30] <cradek> I wonder if I'm being excessively cautious. it is not a large or particularly fast machine.
[01:21:02] <jmkasunich> doesn't it have a "keep your fingers out" guard/cover?
[01:21:33] <cradek> yes
[01:22:49] <jmkasunich> also, I suspect that the spindle coast-down time is much longer than the servo cap discharge time
[01:23:35] <cradek> yes and that's the scary part of the machine
[01:25:12] <cradek> maybe I will cut the xformer primary and call it good
[01:25:20] <cradek> I can reuse the old spindle contactor for that
[01:27:24] <jepler> hm, that's no good -- I estopped during a program run and after that I couldn't do *anything*. I couldn't mdi, I couldn't jog
[01:27:28] <jepler> even after going back into 'machine on'
[01:27:43] <jepler> I noticed that DTG had a number in it, but other than that I couldn't find any smoking guns
[01:27:46] <Jymmm> 03
[01:27:56] <Jymmm> wth...
[01:28:12] <Jymmm> I didn't type the number
[01:35:41] <jepler> heck -- the gcode eagle generated for this board is bad! in a few places it didn't finish the trace isolation
[01:36:14] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/wtf-eagle.png
[01:39:49] <cradek> why don't I see a rapid going to or from both of those ends?
[01:40:49] <jepler> because it loops back on itself, too narrow t osee
[01:41:24] <jepler> cradek: did you see http://axis.unpy.net/01218927215 ?
[01:42:01] <cradek> wow!
[01:42:51] <jepler> here's the bad gcode: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/wtf-eagle.ngc
[01:42:56] <jmkasunich> heh - metal rulz
[01:43:23] <cradek> "I notice that every time I replace a piece of plastic with a piece of metal my CNC machine gets better."
[01:43:28] <jmkasunich> yep
[01:43:31] <cradek> that's hilarious
[01:43:55] <jmkasunich> soon you'll have a real machine (defined as one that you can't easily pick up ;-)
[01:43:57] <cradek> that right scan looks like a very good result
[01:44:03] <mozroute> hey jepler, looks like your idoubler works!
[01:44:08] <jepler> mozroute: oh that's dandy news!
[01:44:33] <mozroute> after I got all the errors out of my hal file... but I'm learnin'
[01:44:48] <cradek> jepler: it looks like you could grip the spindle further down. no?
[01:44:53] <jmkasunich> jepler: I noticed some offset between the drilled holes and the trace isolation - is that because of lash?
[01:45:41] <jmkasunich> yeah. I was noticing that stickout too - not good for rigidity, but the spindle is more rigid than the rest of the machine anyway, and the cutting forces are light
[01:46:18] <cradek> oh I understand now - the bottom two pics are the board edge done with the end mill. that's amazing.
[01:46:22] <jepler> cradek: not really. earlier I inserted a tool to far and couldn't actually reach the table..
[01:46:33] <jmkasunich> I should get out in the garage and do some milling before all ambition fades....
[01:47:16] <cradek> well I'm quite impressed by the difference that made. very neat.
[01:47:16] <jmkasunich> btw, the link to the vendor at the top of your blog article doesn't work
[01:47:36] <jepler> jmkasunich: whoops, fixing
[01:48:20] <jepler> corrected link is http://stores.ebay.com/Wolfgang-Engineering
[01:48:33] <jmkasunich> works
[01:48:55] <jmkasunich> I found another of the bosch 48K rpm spindles at HGR today
[01:49:23] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich gets busy
[01:53:20] <jepler> needless to say I can't repeat my estop weirdness
[01:58:33] <mozroute> just noticed this in dmesg:
[01:58:35] <mozroute> [16051.086224] kobject_add failed for parport_pc with -EEXIST, don't try to register things with the same name in the same directory.
[01:58:49] <mozroute> why am i getting this?
[02:09:52] <cradek> jepler: was that just a keyboard F1 estop?
[02:27:01] <mozroute> it looks like many of the example ngc files are centered on 0,0
[02:27:29] <mozroute> why is this? is it normal to make 0,0 the center of the table or something?
[02:28:02] <cradek> you use a work offset to place a work coordinate system's 0,0 wherever you want to cut that part
[02:28:24] <cradek> that's what the Touch Off button is for
[02:28:32] <mozroute> ok. how do i enter a work offset?
[02:28:47] <cradek> often you mount a piece of stock, then use an edge finder or some other device to locate a corner or edge of it, and set a work coordinate system there.
[02:30:41] <mozroute> I see, move to the edge of the workpiece and click the touch off button.
[02:30:57] <cradek> yes
[02:31:43] <mozroute> is there a way to have it ask for all three axis at once instead of having to select each axis and click touch off?
[02:31:55] <cradek> nope
[02:32:12] <mozroute> ok
[02:32:33] <cradek> when you're locating an origin "for real", it's more natural to do each one separately.
[02:33:03] <cradek> at least Z separately - in a lot of situations you do have X,Y at the same time
[02:33:10] <mozroute> i see. I'm just running lights off my breakout board right now :-)
[02:33:14] <cradek> (like a wiggler pointer)
[02:33:18] <mozroute> yeah
[02:33:56] <mozroute> how do you make it do sharper corners?
[02:34:17] <cradek> g64 P[tolerance]
[02:34:39] <cradek> or g61 for perfectly sharp corners, but this requires stopping at every corner
[02:34:43] <mozroute> so that's in the gcode then... that way you can set tolerance per part
[02:34:57] <cradek> yes
[02:35:13] <mozroute> stopping at every corner would not be bad on a mill doing high precision parts
[02:35:28] <mozroute> but might not be best for a wood router
[02:35:28] <cradek> depends on the tool and material
[02:35:31] <cradek> lots of trade-offs
[02:35:48] <cradek> that's why you can pick the behavior per program
[02:36:01] <mozroute> yeah sounds like. good deal
[02:36:23] <mozroute> I guess I would put that at the top of the gcode? is tolerance in %
[02:36:27] <mozroute> ?
[02:36:41] <cradek> tolerance is a distance
[02:37:02] <cradek> how far can the tool deviate from the programmed path
[02:37:20] <mozroute> oh. what is the default if you don't do a g64?
[02:38:02] <cradek> try hard to give the requested feed, which can deviate from the path quite a bit on low acceleration machines
[02:38:02] <jepler> "best speed"
[02:38:14] <cradek> this was emc1's (only) behavior so it's still the default
[02:38:48] <mozroute> ah.
[02:40:08] <mozroute> well, I need to look at programming the output stuff on this breakout board and I'll be just about up and running
[02:41:19] <mozroute> figured out the leadscrews on my router are 2 start so they're 5 tpi not 10
[02:41:42] <cradek> nice. that will help your step speed requirement.
[02:41:44] <mozroute> I should be able to get 180 to 200 ipm out of this machine
[02:42:16] <mozroute> may need another mobo though because I'm still getting the realtime error, although not every time.
[03:28:32] <toastyde1th> yay i got Machine Tool Reconditioning
[03:29:22] <cradek> neat. I want a copy sometime too.
[03:29:45] <cradek> I'd pay $40-50 for it but the going price is $80-90
[03:32:15] <cradek> darn, there don't seem to be indexable threading tools with 3/8 height
[03:32:27] <cradek> there are some 1/2
[04:30:33] <toastyde1th> yeah, i got it new for my birthday but i was going to buy it anyway
[04:30:37] <toastyde1th> 92 bucks, i think?
[04:34:24] <toastyde1th> also cradek, re: threading tools
[04:34:48] <toastyde1th> at work we've cut the shanks on 1" tools down to 3/4ths to fit in other machines
[04:34:55] <toastyde1th> just takes some wiggle room to fine tune the center height
[04:35:10] <toastyde1th> but i imagine if you're sticking them in a quick change toolholder that won't be too much of an issue
[04:47:42] <ds2> 3/4"? wow big machine
[04:48:46] <toastyde1th> i guess, i haven't seen a cnc take smaller than 3/4 but i haven't seen too many makes
[04:49:08] <toastyde1th> we have two 6x10" machines that take 3/4, the rest are 1"
[04:53:21] <ds2> hmm
[04:54:28] <toastyde1th> it's such a huge difference, to me
[04:54:43] <toastyde1th> even on tiny machines there's no reason not to use 3/4 or 1" unless you absolutely cannot clear it
[04:54:49] <toastyde1th> it helps so, so much
[04:59:27] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, ping
[05:01:36] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, http://imagebin.ca/view/7vtyUOw.html building a regenerative tube receiver.... power supply is a start!
[05:03:02] <ds2> when the tool post is merely 2" high, it may not be possible to even adjust it to center!
[05:05:51] <toastyde1th> ds2: yeah
[05:05:58] <toastyde1th> that's what i mean by clear it =(
[05:06:10] <toastyde1th> but two things you can do are flip the tool upside down and run it in reverse
[05:06:24] <toastyde1th> or run the tool upside down on the back side of the machine, like a cnc does
[05:06:34] <toastyde1th> or just not bother with that size and go with whatever
[05:06:39] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, http://imagebin.ca/view/dae91le4.html
[05:08:40] <LawrenceG> tfmacz, http://imagebin.ca/view/7vtyUOw.html http://imagebin.ca/view/dae91le4.html
[05:32:02] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: cool =)
[05:34:03] <LawrenceG> warm and cosy tubes!
[05:34:28] <JymmmEMC> I was never into tubes too much, excapt for linears
[05:34:39] <JymmmEMC> 1000W linears that is =)
[05:35:31] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: 4 element beam attached to 1000W at an 2200ft elevation overlooking the entire SoCal
[05:35:47] <JymmmEMC> KWOW
[05:36:38] <LawrenceG> aw 12at7's are cute
[05:39:03] <LawrenceG> http://filebin.ca/eyqfb/12AT7-regen-receiver.pdf
[05:40:20] <JymmmEMC> VFO TYVM =)
[05:40:27] <LawrenceG> I am cheating... buildinga single band version with a retro look and external supply
[05:40:58] <JymmmEMC> Now, THIS is a tube =) http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1268/585836949_9f3271634f.jpg?v=0
[05:41:33] <LawrenceG> I have one just like that in my linear... a 3-1000a
[05:42:17] <LawrenceG> and yes... they really glow like that!... the filament is like 150 watts.... lites up the whole shack
[05:42:35] <JymmmEMC> lights up, heats up the whole house too =)
[05:42:58] <LawrenceG> is it warm in Ca tonight?
[05:43:32] <JymmmEMC> http://www.wunderground.com/forecasts/SJC.html
[05:43:45] <LawrenceG> we are probably the hotest we have had all summer... high 80's
[05:44:44] <LawrenceG> wtf?... you must be freezing in the fog
[05:45:02] <JymmmEMC> no fog
[05:45:45] <JymmmEMC> I much prefer rigs that I can run on solar
[05:45:46] <LawrenceG> http://www.wunderground.com/forecasts/yvr.html is close to me
[05:46:26] <LawrenceG> likes kike monday is an inside day!
[05:47:49] <LawrenceG> http://www.wunderground.com/forecasts/ycd.html is closer
[05:53:03] <LawrenceG> goodnight
[10:02:00] <alex_joni> anonimasu: hi
[10:06:41] <anonimasu> hello
[10:17:10] <alex_joni> anonimasu: thinking about buying alibre :)
[10:17:30] <alex_joni> it's half off for design express atm
[10:23:39] <EMEKTAR> slm arkadaşlar
[10:25:01] <fenn> Günaydin
[10:25:16] <EMEKTAR> bi sorum olcaktı
[10:39:02] <anonimasu> alex_joni: that's nice
[10:39:19] <anonimasu> im happy with it
[10:43:30] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I'm just waiting for V11 :)
[11:01:09] <alex_joni> anonimasu: any idea when it'll be out?
[11:34:50] <anonimasu> alex_joni: very soon
[11:35:23] <anonimasu> I think you have 1 year of support from when you purchase it
[11:35:27] <anonimasu> also
[11:35:39] <anonimasu> so if they release it within one year they'll upgrade you
[11:58:00] <alex_joni> ah, I see
[11:58:07] <alex_joni> cool
[11:58:19] <alex_joni> I read some blog that it's going to be in sept.
[14:07:58] <micges> hello
[14:11:14] <DanielFalck> micges: hello
[14:11:43] <DanielFalck> micges: are you integrating emc and lasers?
[14:12:04] <micges> yes
[14:12:30] <DanielFalck> you have some pictures of machines on the wiki, right?
[14:12:40] <micges> yup
[14:12:47] <micges> but this is only small part
[14:13:17] <micges> DanielFalck: I'll be back in 40 min
[14:13:19] <micges> bbl
[14:45:13] <micges> Im back
[14:46:08] <DanielFalck> micges: so you've integrated a lot of machines?
[14:47:51] <micges> table mill x2, laser x 2, retrofitted laser x 2, waterjet, retrofitted table mill
[14:48:05] <DanielFalck> great
[14:48:08] <micges> a couple is pending
[14:48:30] <DanielFalck> commercial venture
[14:49:37] <micges> I have made very flexible axis version for all of them
[14:50:08] <DanielFalck> very good
[14:51:08] <micges> are there any thing you want to ask about ?
[14:51:37] <DanielFalck> how about the lasers? are they for cutting metal or for engraving?
[14:52:05] <micges> my extentions to emc system along with electronics shemes will be on wiki soon
[14:52:30] <micges> for cutting wood , but metal too
[14:52:42] <micges> also engraving
[14:52:49] <DanielFalck> ok, good for inlay work then
[14:53:38] <DanielFalck> do the lasers use the table for all movement, or do they also use mirrors to move the light beam?
[14:54:11] <micges> both systems
[14:54:28] <micges> movable table and movable optics
[14:54:45] <DanielFalck> so you have emc controlling the optics as well
[14:54:53] <micges> yes
[14:55:00] <DanielFalck> very nice
[14:55:57] <micges> now its hard to connect correction of optics to original emc but Im working on it
[14:56:31] <DanielFalck> are you in Europe? I'm in the US
[14:56:44] <micges> Im from Poland
[14:57:12] <micges> I must go now , I will be in about 2h
[14:57:15] <DanielFalck> we use commercial laser engraving machines at the place where I work
[14:57:27] <DanielFalck> but I want to learn more- talk to you later
[14:57:51] <micges> later DanielFalck
[16:29:33] <alex_joni_> any idea why I can't resume a screen?
[16:29:59] <anonimasu> did someone/something empty your tmp directory?
[16:30:16] <alex_joni_> hmm..
[16:30:16] <anonimasu> does "screen -rd" work?
[16:30:29] <anonimasu> or try "screen -rx"
[16:30:31] <anonimasu> :)
[16:30:42] <alex_joni_> I usually use -rd
[16:31:02] <anonimasu> -x is multiuser..
[16:31:06] <alex_joni_> -rx or -rd or -rxd doesn't work
[16:31:21] <anonimasu> hm.. does it tell you anything?
[16:31:28] <anonimasu> like list screens or so?
[16:31:29] <alex_joni_> no.. it hangs
[16:31:39] <anonimasu> try ctrl + d
[16:31:46] <alex_joni_> well.. now that I have 2 running I need to specify the pid
[16:31:49] <anonimasu> afterwards..
[16:31:57] <alex_joni_> but with the pid for the old one it simply hangs
[16:32:16] <alex_joni_> ctrl-d doesn't do anything
[16:32:28] <alex_joni_> ctrl-a prints a ^A, so I don't think it gets to screen
[16:32:44] <anonimasu> hm.. that's very odd.
[16:32:55] <alex_joni_> yup
[16:33:18] <anonimasu> I have no idea then
[16:33:19] <anonimasu> :(
[16:34:13] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[16:36:10] <DanielFalck> cradek: I'm trying to build ttt3.0 from source on a ubuntu7.10 machine. I'm not able to get past some errors: ttt.c:206: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type
[16:36:21] <DanielFalck> lines 207, 208,209 are the same
[16:36:23] <alex_joni> hmm.. kill worked without -9, so I'm not sure why it hung
[16:36:23] <DanielFalck> any ideas
[16:36:43] <alex_joni> DanielFalck: that's a warning, not an error
[16:36:52] <DanielFalck> ok
[16:36:54] <DanielFalck> thanks
[16:48:13] <alex_joni> DanielFalck: there might also be an error..
[16:48:26] <DanielFalck> I can get it to build here
[16:48:50] <DanielFalck> I'm subverting it for apt360 : )
[17:29:08] <alex_joni> DanielFalck: ok then :)
[17:33:27] <DanielFalck> http://imagebin.org/24433
[17:34:45] <anonimasu> DanielFalck: all that warning means is that the people that wrote the ttt thinks they know better then the compiler guys what you should be doing :)
[17:34:59] <anonimasu> *grins*
[17:35:29] <DanielFalck> it worked anyway, so I won't worry any more
[18:50:26] <pjm> evening
[19:32:39] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich grrrs at Tormach
[19:32:48] <cradek> uh-oh
[19:32:50] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: what's wrong?
[19:32:52] <cradek> hi
[19:33:01] <jmkasunich> Tormach Face Mill doesn't fit in Tormach collet
[19:33:02] <alex_joni> hi
[19:33:07] <jmkasunich> hi ;-)
[19:33:33] <cradek> it's not 3/4?
[19:33:44] <jmkasunich> dia is right, but the shank is too long
[19:33:52] <jmkasunich> I bet it fits OK in the R-8 conversion collet
[19:34:00] <cradek> ah
[19:34:06] <jmkasunich> but the MT-3 conversion collet is bored 3/4" for 1.5"
[19:34:12] <cradek> band saw! they're never hard
[19:34:21] <jmkasunich> standard TTS shanks are 1-3/8"
[19:34:34] <jmkasunich> yeah, I'm preparing to cut it down
[19:34:35] <cradek> I had to "adjust" my boring head's shank that way
[19:34:46] <jmkasunich> after writing an annoyed letter to Greg Jackson
[19:34:55] <cradek> I was surprised how soft it was considering it looked ground
[19:34:59] <jmkasunich> its one thing to have to cut down random tooling
[19:35:15] <jmkasunich> but when you buy both parts from the same vendor, they ought to fit
[19:35:22] <cradek> yes. that's sloppy.
[19:35:51] <jmkasunich> thats the second thing I've seen from Tormach this week that has disappointed me
[19:36:04] <jmkasunich> #1 was an ebay auction where they are selling some surplus toolholders
[19:36:19] <jmkasunich> the price is $12, which is a not bad deal for a $20 toolholder
[19:36:32] <jmkasunich> but they are asking $16+ for shipping, for a 1/4 pound item
[19:36:45] <jmkasunich> thats a sleazeball tactic on ebay
[19:36:50] <cradek> report it to ebay, it's forbidden
[19:37:32] <jmkasunich> didn't know that
[19:37:42] <jmkasunich> how does ebay define "shipping too high"?
[19:37:56] <anonimasu> hm.. $20 is pretty much standard shipping for stuff..(to europe)
[19:37:56] <anonimasu> :p
[19:38:06] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=310074742697&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=021
[19:39:10] <jmkasunich> looks like they are using ebays shipping calculator, they must have a handling charge embedded in there somewhere
[19:39:20] <cradek> http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-shipping.html
[19:40:27] <cradek> yeah $16.58 to here - something must be wrong
[19:41:19] <jmkasunich> I suspect the actual UPS rate is in the $8 range
[19:41:20] <cradek> wonder if they told it a weight and guessed badly?
[19:41:37] <cradek> yeah I agree, probably $8 for ground
[19:41:57] <jmkasunich> I'm about 99% sure that the input to that shipping calculator includes the ability to set a handling and/or packing materials fee
[19:42:02] <jmkasunich> they probably set that to about $8
[19:42:24] <dmess> a need a new kewboard for a laptop ... it costs 15 dollaRS.. SHIPPING IS 34.99
[19:42:30] <jmkasunich> which is approximately the difference between the regular price of the holder, and the $12 auction price
[19:43:01] <cradek> To add a handling cost to your shipping costs, enter an amount in the "Handling cost" field. This amount is not displayed to buyers.
[19:43:14] <dmess> or I CAN GET A 34.99 KEYBOARD and 15 dolllrs shipping..
[19:43:16] <cradek> so yes what you say is possible
[19:45:12] <jmkasunich> I'm not going to report them, but I'm not going to buy the holders either....
[19:47:44] <jmkasunich> when I bought the collet, and a small drill chuck, and an arbor direct from them (total weight probably 3x the toolholder in that sale), the shipping was $8.79
[19:48:37] <cradek> normal price for those is only $20?
[19:48:42] <jmkasunich> yeah
[19:48:47] <cradek> that's nice.
[19:49:03] <jmkasunich> actually, $23.50 according to the website
[19:49:23] <jmkasunich> dunno why the listing says $20.75, that makes it look like _less_ of a deal than it is
[19:50:04] <jmkasunich> oh, it looks like the website prices recently went up a bit
[19:50:14] <jmkasunich> the collet chuck used to be 80-something, now its $92
[20:05:47] <jmkasunich> cradek: you were right, bandsaw cut it nicely
[20:07:19] <anonimasu> lol :)
[20:07:41] <fragalot> fragalot is now known as Monologue_v2
[20:08:50] <Monologue_v2> Monologue_v2 is now known as MonologueV2
[20:09:14] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: I saw you shot hardy :P
[20:09:34] <jmkasunich> I did indeed
[20:09:39] <alex_joni> nice
[20:09:44] <jmkasunich> thanks
[20:11:15] <MonologueV2> MonologueV2 is now known as Monologue_v2
[20:11:42] <Monologue_v2> Monologue_v2 is now known as MonologueV2
[20:11:51] <MonologueV2> MonologueV2 is now known as Monologue_V2
[20:15:03] <jmkasunich> weird - I tried to print the timeguy.com SFM graph (pdf) from Evince, and the print job shows as "stopped"
[20:15:06] <jmkasunich> can't resume it
[20:15:31] <Monologue_V2> Monologue_V2 is now known as fragalot
[20:16:01] <fragalot> fragalot is now known as Guest14062
[20:16:25] <Guest14062> Guest14062 is now known as fragalot
[20:16:39] <jmkasunich> fragalot: are you having fun?
[20:16:57] <fragalot> jmkasunich: reggin' a nick,.. can be tough
[20:16:57] <fragalot> :p
[20:17:26] <jmkasunich> I've never had a problem - one of the benefits of having an uncommon last name
[20:17:43] <jmkasunich> of course, everybody mispronounces it, so its a wash
[20:18:14] <jmkasunich> the .ps prints fine.... strange
[20:20:54] <micges> DanielFalck: hello again
[20:22:42] <fragalot> jmkasunich: it's for a bot, want a cloak
[20:22:52] <fragalot> and i'm off to bed, gnite
[20:29:59] <alex_joni> same here
[20:30:02] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:31:21] <micges> good night
[20:40:53] <cradek> can you print anything else?
[20:42:07] <jmkasunich> I've printed pdf's before from evince
[20:42:17] <jmkasunich> since the .ps printed, I moved on
[20:42:43] <jmkasunich> if you think there might be something about the pdf that is messing it up I can try some tests
[20:43:15] <cradek> I'm sure I've printed it before... I would have no idea what to do
[20:43:39] <cradek> if it displays ok, but doesn't print, I'd be very tempted to call it NMFP
[20:43:50] <jmkasunich> oh, I'm sure its NYFP
[20:44:17] <jmkasunich> however, if it is easy to identify the nature of the problem, we can make a good bug report to the Evince people
[20:44:30] <jmkasunich> oh, never mind - I'm running 6.06, so they won't care
[20:44:37] <jmkasunich> might be fixed by now anyway
[20:50:39] <LawrenceG> robin_, robin_z ping... you awake?
[20:58:34] <micges> good night all
[21:02:48] <robin_z> nope, fast asleep
[21:03:20] <LawrenceG> I have a fellow on skype that would like to do some business with you
[21:03:33] <LawrenceG> do you have contact info online?
[21:04:46] <jmkasunich> does said fellow use inches? ;-)
[21:05:57] <LawrenceG> hey
[21:06:10] <LawrenceG> robin_z... where did you go?
[21:06:20] <jmkasunich> robin has stated that when somebody shows him a print in inches, he shows them the door
[21:06:41] <LawrenceG> no napkin sketches in inches... :}
[21:07:06] <robin_z> heh
[21:07:22] <robin_z> oh, inthe UK?
[21:07:37] <robin_z> sorrym back now ;)
[21:08:22] <LawrenceG> yes.... Cranborne Dorset Bh21 5PN
[21:08:53] <LawrenceG> Near Southampton and Bournemouth, 100 miles South of London
[21:10:38] <a-l-p-h-a> anyone familiar with crontab?
[21:11:00] <a-l-p-h-a> does anyone know if crontab runs in sequence or multithreaded processes?
[21:12:11] <anonimasu> multithreaded I'd bet you
[21:12:26] <anonimasu> it wouldnt make sense for a process like a backup to hog your system while it completes.
[21:12:37] <a-l-p-h-a> okay
[21:12:48] <a-l-p-h-a> so I should use a cront to call a bash script to run stuff in sqeunce.
[21:12:50] <a-l-p-h-a> sequence.
[21:12:54] <anonimasu> yep
[21:14:14] <LawrenceG> robin_z ... your web site?
[21:14:25] <robin_z> errm
[21:14:32] <robin_z> http://www.rapidcut.co.uk
[21:15:10] <robin_z> think theres a contact page
[21:15:19] <robin_z> really must update that site someday
[21:19:01] <pjm> cranbourne, dorset is only 8 miles from me
[21:25:16] <LawrenceG> robin_z, the fellows name is DeWayne Young.... I gave hime your contact info.... he builds cnc machines and is looking for a laser cutting shop in UK
[21:25:39] <robin_z> ah ha
[21:25:52] <robin_z> sounds good
[21:26:17] <robin_z> we can offer a full laser cut, bend and fabricate service
[21:26:39] <robin_z> we tend to do more fabrication than plain laser cutting
[22:02:30] <robin_z> anyway tankks LawrenceG
[22:11:04] <LawrenceG> np... hope it works out
[22:14:43] <robin_z> yep
[22:14:46] <robin_z> work is work ..
[23:45:36] <fenn> robin_z: you need a sign on that big yellow barn
[23:47:09] <robin_z> heh, we do npw
[23:47:15] <robin_z> npw
[23:47:16] <robin_z> now
[23:47:20] <robin_z> jeez my fingers