#emc | Logs for 2008-08-13

[00:40:00] <davidf> Hi
[00:40:34] <davidf> Could I get some help with an angular axis and inverse time mode please?
[00:41:08] <davidf> I'm getting a joint 3 (A axis) following error with a stemmer motoer open loop setup.
[00:41:18] <davidf> stepper, that is
[00:41:46] <davidf> code is (I think) G93 x-.002 A 1080 F3
[00:42:23] <davidf> cradek ?
[00:47:30] <cradek> if you are getting a following error, it is a problem with your ini/hal configuration, not your gcode
[00:49:43] <davidf> Oh. I don't have any problem jogging it...?
[00:50:38] <cradek> interesting!
[00:51:08] <davidf> xyz and a all turn fine, and smoothly.
[00:51:24] <davidf> But when I hit that line, I get the following error.
[00:51:40] <cradek> you have turned both linear and angular jog speed all the way up and jogging is fine?
[00:52:12] <davidf> No, I put a huge max speed on A in the ini.
[00:52:24] <jmkasunich> well, there is your problem
[00:52:43] <davidf> When the inverse time mode is used, does the A axis jogging speed get used?
[00:52:45] <cradek> ok, you have to configure the max possible speed correctly.
[00:52:52] <jmkasunich> if you have a huge speed in the ini, EMC will be quite happy to issue moves at that speed
[00:52:54] <cradek> no, gcode and jogging do not ever interact
[00:53:14] <cradek> your gcode says move to x-.002 a1080 in 1/3 of a minute
[00:53:32] <cradek> that may take a very fast A move, above what your hardware can do, but allowed by your wrongly huge setting in the ini.
[00:53:58] <cradek> brb
[00:54:15] <davidf> OK. Oh. I guess the system just figures out how fast the A axis has to turn based on the inverse time and all the distances stipulated in the command, huh?
[00:54:34] <cradek> yes that's exactly the point of inverse time mode
[00:54:56] <davidf> right, I get it. Been away from the code for awhile.
[00:56:12] <davidf> But, I asked for 3 revolutions (I think, 1080 degrees,) in 20 seconds, only 6.3 seconds per rev. I can do that easily in jog mode.
[00:57:15] <cradek> that is only true if A's position is 0 before the move - was that so?
[00:58:07] <cradek> (I'm assuming G90 mode here)
[00:58:09] <davidf> Ah, I might have forgot a G92 A 0.00. I'll check. Good call. bbl.
[00:58:17] <cradek> ok, hope you get it
[11:55:15] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[13:23:27] <skunkworks> it is so cool that eagle seem to run exactly the same between windows and ubuntu
[13:50:38] <cradek> skunkworks: how is your servo amp coming?
[13:53:44] <skunkworks> cradek: was going to generate the g-code. Actually cutting the board is the problem. (getting to the shop_
[13:54:33] <cradek> why? just no time?
[13:54:38] <skunkworks> yes
[13:54:41] <cradek> darn
[13:54:43] <skunkworks> too many summer projects
[13:55:09] <skunkworks> maybe it will rain this weekend.. ;)
[13:55:22] <cradek> heh
[13:55:57] <cradek> I didn't turn on the lathe last night - I just wrote ladder all evening
[13:56:16] <cradek> trying to figure out all the things I don't want to let it do, and in what sequence
[13:56:25] <cradek> collet open while the spindle is running? I don't think so
[13:56:33] <cradek> switch gears with the spindle running? I don't think so
[13:56:38] <skunkworks> yikes.
[13:56:54] <skunkworks> you have to get all your ducks in a row ;)
[13:57:06] <skunkworks> so - the lathe conversion is a go?
[13:57:19] <cradek> but what should happen if you ask for collet open? should it latch the request and then open it when the spindle stops? It's hard to decide (and then do) all that stuff
[13:57:29] <cradek> yes it's well along
[13:57:36] <skunkworks> nice
[13:58:35] <skunkworks> how did the original control do it?
[13:58:42] <jepler> cradek: we demand that you cut a part by the end of the month
[13:59:03] <cradek> jepler: I think that's extremely likely to happen (if jon gets the resolver boards done)
[13:59:24] <cradek> skunkworks: I don't know - it was not really working well enough to tell - I never got it to run in 'auto' mode
[14:00:00] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub expects to see the video in a few days
[14:00:32] <cradek> the tool change is neat. I think I have all the bugs worked out now.
[14:00:46] <skunkworks> * skunkworks looks on cradeks' site for pictures of the conversion.......
[14:01:06] <cradek> before, if you asked for a tool number outside 1-8, it would lift up and spin forever, not finding it :-)
[14:01:17] <rayh> many times the users of these collet lathes kept the spindle turning when opening the collet and feeding stock.
[14:01:38] <rayh> They used a bump stop on the turret.
[14:02:04] <cradek> rayh: yikes, it seems like closing the collet and using its slippage to accelerate the stock would be bad
[14:02:28] <rayh> No they had an air powererd bar feed.
[14:02:55] <archivist_ub> yup our capstan doesnt stop for feed
[14:03:23] <archivist_ub> neither would a sliding head
[14:03:37] <rayh> The nice thing about EMC2 in this situation is that you can have either.
[14:03:51] <cradek> yes because it doesn't know squat about collets :-)
[14:04:20] <rayh> Exactly. The concept of machine logic comes to mind.
[14:04:51] <cradek> I'm finding ladder pretty effective for this stuff. I'm getting less clumsy at writing it.
[14:04:53] <rayh> Great job getting the tool changer to work.
[14:05:14] <cradek> it wasn't very hard - the design of the changer is good and easy to work with.
[14:05:26] <rayh> Yes it really is.
[14:06:25] <cradek> the only thing that I really dislike on this lathe is those stupid terminal strips
[14:08:27] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub sitting here doing his first mass production cnc job, 6 off gears for racing motor bike
[14:08:27] <cradek> rayh: have you seen the cutoff slide work, or does everyone use a parting tool on the turret?
[14:09:09] <fragalot> archivist_ub: 6pc's == mass production? O.O
[14:09:35] <archivist_ub> not often we make more than one of a part
[14:09:45] <rayh> The cutoff tool works well.
[14:09:50] <fragalot> mm, opposite at my summer job
[14:09:52] <rayh> As does the parts catcher.
[14:09:59] <fragalot> he quit taking jobs for piece counts under 15
[14:10:00] <cradek> how do you set the feed on it?
[14:10:02] <fragalot> now it's all 200+
[14:10:11] <cradek> I see it has a switch at the bottom to say when it's done
[14:10:21] <fragalot> most are 4000 pieces,.. but thats done with barfeeders (aslong as they don't jam, they rock)
[14:10:26] <rayh> The terminal strips are a real pain.
[14:11:09] <fragalot> \o/ I got my watch resized today.. finally
[14:11:36] <rayh> I'd replace them if I were connecting to EMC.
[14:11:42] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vbzFi \o/
[14:13:40] <cradek> interesting that the mainspring barrel is open. it's a cheap way to do a wind indicator
[14:14:04] <cradek> um, what's with the dial on the left with no pointer?
[14:14:27] <fragalot> decoration,.. I guess
[14:14:28] <fragalot> :/
[14:14:33] <cradek> * cradek shivers
[14:14:39] <fragalot> lol
[14:14:58] <fragalot> prolly for lazy people to say that the top is also 60 seconds,.. etc..
[14:14:59] <fragalot> :/
[14:16:06] <cradek> http://www.jirams.btinternet.co.uk/RT3High.jpg
[14:16:13] <fragalot> * fragalot needs to figure out how that "tachymetre" thing works
[14:16:14] <cradek> not my photo, but this is the watch I wear most often
[14:16:32] <fragalot> looks nice
[14:16:41] <cradek> it's SO readable
[14:16:46] <fragalot> haha yeah
[14:17:15] <fragalot> mine is.. not very accurate.. can't set the seconds,.. owell
[14:17:28] <skunkworks> * skunkworks never wears a watch. one more thing to remember to put on in the morning.. ;)
[14:18:01] <fragalot> I like a watch,.. feel naked without one
[14:18:01] <fragalot> :p
[14:18:15] <dushantch> well I wear watches with rubber bezels so when something tries to ripp them off they break :)
[14:18:35] <dushantch> had that happen a couple of times to me :)
[14:18:39] <fragalot> haha
[14:18:55] <fragalot> this would just pop out, just replace the hinge and it's fixed
[14:19:07] <fragalot> (not that i'm willing to try..)
[14:19:11] <skunkworks> I am down to zero jewelery.. The wedding ring was lost in mexico.
[14:19:16] <fragalot> :o
[14:19:18] <cradek> tachymeter is only useful if it has chronograph functions (second hand that stops and resets to the top)
[14:19:31] <fragalot> cradek: yeah,.. I still want to know htf it works tho
[14:19:42] <dushantch> dunno it loks like that hand will pop out not this thing :)
[14:19:59] <cradek> start the chronograph at one mile post, stop at the next, read your speed in miles per hour from the dial
[14:20:06] <fragalot> oh
[14:20:10] <fragalot> sweet
[14:20:31] <cradek> or time one part coming out of the lathe, read your number of parts per hour
[14:20:32] <dushantch> jewelry is so conductive, I don't like it :)
[14:20:54] <fragalot> cradek: that is nice... if only this had chrono functions lol
[14:20:59] <cradek> haha
[14:21:07] <fragalot> you'd have to time it now
[14:21:07] <fragalot> lol
[14:21:09] <cradek> guess that's for looks too
[14:21:24] <fragalot> yeah
[14:21:37] <fragalot> but,.. it only goes up to 400! what if i'm going faster :o
[14:21:42] <fragalot> :p
[14:22:01] <cradek> you could sort of use it like it is. if you know something takes 22 seconds, look at 22 and read off ~ 160
[14:22:09] <cradek> but it's not real useful.
[14:22:10] <fragalot> requires math tho
[14:22:16] <fragalot> the point of the tachy is that you don't need math :p
[14:22:18] <jepler> I feel compelled to note so-called "mile markers" on the highway aren't necessarily spaced one mile apart.
[14:22:35] <fragalot> they are just rough indicators
[14:22:40] <fragalot> incase of an accident.
[14:23:05] <cradek> like I accidently used the mile markers to measure my speed?
[14:23:06] <fragalot> one thing always makes me smile..
[14:23:13] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub uses gps for speed checking these days
[14:23:31] <fragalot> you know those documentaries on how they build buildings?
[14:23:46] <fragalot> and they go "this has to be VERY accurate,.. it has to be right within 4inches" ...
[14:23:56] <jepler> (and that's why the metric system is bad: you have to put about 50% more markers up to mark one unit of the distance commonly referred to when travelling by car)
[14:23:59] <fragalot> makes me think of the parts we get to make.. lol
[14:24:09] <fragalot> jepler: rofl
[14:24:33] <fragalot> jepler: math is easier to calculate with,.. base-10
[14:25:09] <cradek> I like emacs better than vi
[14:25:17] <dushantch> to everyone it's own
[14:25:22] <jepler> fragalot: look at it as a percentage of the total part, though. 1/100 inch over 4 inches = 3 inches over 100 foot
[14:25:27] <fragalot> I agree with dushantch
[14:25:46] <cradek> gnome is better than kde
[14:25:47] <fragalot> jepler: ofcourse, it's still funny..
[14:25:50] <dushantch> It's only problem when you have to change the way you're thinking :)
[14:26:01] <fragalot> cradek: now you're just trolling. xfce4 > *
[14:26:01] <fragalot> :p
[14:26:19] <dushantch> fvwm?
[14:26:22] <cradek> manual transmissions are better
[14:26:25] <fragalot> mm
[14:26:30] <fragalot> cradek: agreed.
[14:26:35] <fragalot> automatic is so... boring
[14:26:45] <dushantch> tiptronics?
[14:26:55] <fragalot> thats equally as boring
[14:27:07] <fragalot> granted, it's less boring
[14:27:11] <dushantch> :)
[14:27:12] <fragalot> * fragalot likes his stick shift
[14:27:22] <dushantch> me too
[14:27:29] <cradek> argh
[14:27:50] <dushantch> I like nice transmissions, elegant ones, like eaton-fuller
[14:28:00] <fragalot> mines kinda sporty
[14:28:04] <fragalot> very smooth, with a short stick
[14:28:31] <dushantch> Mine's kind of truck ZF210 16 speeds :)
[14:28:42] <fragalot> haha
[14:28:44] <dushantch> 2x4x2
[14:28:50] <fragalot> http://irishcar.com/ICOimages/cmaxint-1.jpg <--
[14:30:04] <dushantch> fuller pnaumatic manual trans had no synchro drives :) eternal things
[14:30:52] <jymm> 4x4x4
[14:31:16] <fragalot> dushantch: haha
[14:31:26] <jymm> four wheel drive, four wheel steering =)
[14:31:27] <dushantch> what's funny :)
[14:31:30] <fragalot> *changes gear* -neutral- *rev* -change-
[14:31:41] <archivist_ub> I had an odd automatic in the early 1970's, two electro magnetic clutches and a solenoid from 1st to 2nd
[14:31:56] <dushantch> it splits every 250-300 revs
[14:32:13] <dushantch> I drove it on MAN 26261 :)
[14:32:20] <fragalot> I'm happy with 6 gears.. 5 forward, 1 reverse
[14:32:27] <fragalot> more than a car needs
[14:32:30] <dushantch> here were 12
[14:32:45] <fragalot> dushantch: yeah,.. here we drive cars, not trucks.
[14:32:45] <fragalot> :)
[14:32:59] <dushantch> these new 6 gears trans are nice, low fuel usage
[14:33:08] <fragalot> *nod*
[14:33:22] <dushantch> well I drive a xsara picasso but hat's nothing to brag about :)
[14:33:30] <fragalot> besides, for tractors, for example, those commonly have 24 gears... but you just.. skip most anyways if you aren't pulling a heavy load
[14:33:41] <dushantch> yep
[14:33:55] <dushantch> I went like 4-8-12 emty :)
[14:34:02] <fragalot> :D
[14:34:15] <fragalot> I usually go 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5
[14:34:17] <fragalot> y'know..
[14:34:18] <fragalot> :)
[14:34:45] <fragalot> kinda funny,.. put a 0 behind the number of the gear, and you know how fast the car will go if you let the engine idle
[14:34:53] <dushantch> Some drivers go 1-2-3-4-R as in Rally :)
[14:35:09] <fragalot> I haven't ever seen a car go to R at such a speed
[14:35:16] <fragalot> and i kinda doubt even rally drivers do that
[14:35:17] <dushantch> they try :)
[14:35:26] <fragalot> ah, hehe
[14:35:33] <fragalot> ours blocks the gears you don't need
[14:35:40] <dushantch> ?
[14:35:47] <fragalot> if you're going 120 for example and you wanna go to first, or reverse, it just doesn't let you in
[14:36:02] <fragalot> it's like there is no gear there,..
[14:36:23] <dushantch> ah those are synchros, rel speed is too high
[14:36:34] <fragalot> last time i drove an automatic,.. nightmare :p
[14:36:48] <fragalot> I was riding on the highway, and it decided to slip out of gear & grind the gears...
[14:36:53] <fragalot> THEN WHAT :|
[14:37:16] <skunkworks> my car reaches 180mph at redline.. (or so I have been told)
[14:37:22] <fragalot> all you can do is stop, while it's still grinding 'm buggers, hoping it's not completely wrecked
[14:38:05] <dushantch> electronics or bad contacts ? :)
[14:38:12] <fragalot> skunkworks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPbSehGleA8
[14:38:38] <fragalot> dushantch: no idea, it just popped out,.. i'm just happy it didn't lock up
[14:38:41] <skunkworks> yikes
[14:38:51] <fragalot> on a manual car, you just.. hit the clutch & stir the stick
[14:39:01] <dushantch> well makes your life less boring :)
[14:39:02] <fragalot> but on an automatic all you can do is just.. pray :p
[14:39:30] <archivist_ub> I used to grab the relays in mine to override
[14:39:49] <fragalot> archivist_ub: oh yeah, good idea, i'll just quickly pop it open doing 120/h
[14:40:07] <fragalot> :p
[14:40:30] <skunkworks> so - what is 225 in mph?
[14:40:33] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is lazy
[14:40:39] <fragalot> skunkworks: /1.6
[14:40:48] <fragalot> 140
[14:40:57] <fragalot> for a 1.6 diesel, that ain't bad
[14:41:18] <dushantch> 225kmph in a 1.6 diesel? i don't believe
[14:41:28] <fragalot> dushantch: believe it.
[14:41:36] <dushantch> turbo?
[14:41:37] <skunkworks> turboed probably
[14:41:40] <fragalot> duh
[14:41:40] <fragalot> :p
[14:41:42] <dushantch> that's ok
[14:42:09] <fragalot> I hate turbo tbh,.. it lags
[14:42:26] <dushantch> new ones are nice
[14:42:36] <dushantch> they're putting 2 turbos in cars now
[14:42:38] <fragalot> ours doesn't respond well if it's at low rpm
[14:42:43] <dushantch> new lancia
[14:42:47] <fragalot> yeah, I wanted them to remove the 2nd
[14:42:54] <fragalot> giving 90hp instead of 125
[14:43:05] <fragalot> engine lasts longer, and i don't need 125bhp
[14:43:27] <dushantch> don't rev it up and it's the same
[14:43:42] <fragalot> I never go over 3000 rpm
[14:44:12] <dushantch> so your engine will live like 500000km :)
[14:44:18] <fragalot> \o/
[14:44:42] <fragalot> the old car was also a ford diesel,.. 1.8 atmospheric .. well.. the engine was just about all that was still in good shape
[14:44:49] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMK7ZMJ_qBU
[14:45:14] <dushantch> this new ford is a 1.6HDI? peugeot engine?
[14:45:25] <fragalot> dushantch: 1.6 TDCI
[14:45:38] <fragalot> Turbo Diesel Common-rail Injection
[14:46:01] <dushantch> I know, then opel uses peugeot engines?
[14:46:16] <fragalot> most use GM anyways in the end..
[14:47:18] <dushantch> yeah I'm more into french and german cars :)
[14:47:19] <skunkworks> you would not catch me going that fast
[14:47:23] <fragalot> http://carenthusiast.com/roadtests.html?mode=article&id=2325 technical specs at the bottom. --- note: this is the english version, and imho, rather ugly :p
[14:47:42] <fragalot> top speed on that website is a lie tho :p
[14:47:56] <dushantch> well 2.0i :)
[14:48:06] <fragalot> so is the mpg in my experience
[14:48:45] <dushantch> every manufacturers mpg is a lie
[14:48:58] <fragalot> yeah,.. I get almost 50mpg
[14:49:18] <fragalot> in urban terrain
[14:49:25] <dushantch> But this little 2.0HDi I drive onsumes 5.5l/100km with a 1350kg car :) on a freeway
[14:49:37] <fragalot> freeway uses less fuel.. way less
[14:49:38] <fragalot> :p
[14:49:44] <dushantch> I know
[14:49:45] <fragalot> but 5.5 is pretty nice
[14:50:08] <fragalot> lowest i've gotten mine to do over 100km was 4 .. downhill with the wind in my back
[14:50:09] <fragalot> lol
[14:50:24] <dushantch> I'm now looking at Clio 1.5dci they consume like 4.5 combined :)
[14:50:25] <skunkworks> we had a jetta tdi - loved the mileage - it was a bit unreliable though.
[14:50:43] <fragalot> dushantch: Yar, that one is nice
[14:50:56] <dushantch> those old tdi's like 75hp from 1.9
[14:51:08] <cradek> best I ever get is 7.6l/100km (31 mpg) and everyone here is shocked by how good that is when I tell them
[14:51:18] <fragalot> cradek: american?
[14:51:24] <cradek> yes
[14:51:31] <fragalot> that explains it
[14:51:34] <dushantch> I never had more than 6/100
[14:51:34] <fragalot> you'd be shocked if we told you our fuel prices.
[14:51:34] <cradek> most cars around here are 12-14l/100km
[14:51:45] <cradek> no I wouldn't...
[14:51:48] <dushantch> 1.6tdi 1.9D 2.0HDi etc.
[14:51:52] <fragalot> cradek: take a guess
[14:52:06] <dushantch> here's like 1.8$/l
[14:52:08] <cradek> I imagine yours is about 2-3x what ours is
[14:52:19] <fragalot> thats a nice assumption
[14:52:34] <fragalot> dushantch: cheap
[14:52:43] <dushantch> UK is like doble i guess
[14:52:48] <fragalot> here it's $2.5 per liter
[14:52:54] <dushantch> well I'm in the undeveloped part of EU :)
[14:53:00] <fragalot> :) belgium here
[14:53:13] <dushantch> gas is here 2$ diesel is 1.8
[14:53:18] <dushantch> serbia here :)
[14:53:31] <fragalot> :D
[14:54:11] <dushantch> have you considered plugin mercedes smart?
[14:54:28] <fragalot> i don't like mercedes :/
[14:54:30] <fragalot> $$$
[14:54:37] <dushantch> that would be nice runaround car
[14:54:48] <fragalot> I'm a ford guy.. affordable, reliable,..
[14:54:54] <dushantch> But batteries and plugin in the wall :)
[14:55:07] <cradek> * cradek checks the channel name
[14:55:14] <dushantch> LOL
[14:55:32] <cradek> I know I set this off, but I was trying to derail a debate about the metric system
[14:55:44] <skunkworks> nice job..
[14:55:45] <skunkworks> ;)
[14:55:54] <cradek> true, I guess it worked
[14:55:59] <fragalot> haha
[14:56:35] <dushantch> robotic welding cell for pressurised vessels, steel sheets are warped, how would you solve that?
[14:56:43] <dushantch> This is derailing :)
[14:56:54] <dushantch> warped from plasma cutting
[14:56:58] <fragalot> already did that dushantch
[14:56:59] <fragalot> :)
[14:57:11] <dushantch> seam tracking?
[14:57:49] <dushantch> I try to use ABB equipment
[14:57:52] <fragalot> well, basically we just made a rotating platform to make cylindrical tanks (just a set of truck tyres ;)) and then mounted a rail system + a chair & welding equiptment on it
[14:58:03] <fragalot> all you did was position it, and hit "start"
[14:58:15] <fragalot> then it rotated the tank a full round and it was welded together. lol
[14:58:49] <dushantch> well these are prismatic parts and funky weld patterns
[14:59:07] <fragalot> build one of those "line tracking" robots
[14:59:07] <fragalot> xD
[14:59:34] <dushantch> it'll probably be some ABB welding robot with seam tracking
[14:59:50] <dushantch> parts are like 1x1x1m max
[14:59:58] <fragalot> <3 sophisticated equiptment
[15:00:00] <fragalot> esp. when it breaks
[15:00:36] <dushantch> dunno, I don't think I can make something 24/7/350days a year reliable
[15:02:09] <dushantch> and ABB has good support here
[15:02:48] <fragalot> true
[15:02:53] <fragalot> but,.. FANUC is something i hate
[15:02:54] <fragalot> :p
[15:03:09] <dushantch> how hard would it be to make 3D seam tracking with EMC? If I make redundant devicas it could work
[15:08:22] <fragalot> http://www.adequacy.org/public/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html
[15:08:23] <fragalot> dear god
[15:08:27] <fragalot> xD thats hilarious
[15:13:26] <OoBIGeye> LOL
[15:14:08] <dushantch> :)
[15:21:28] <fragalot> so guys.. you're all evil hackers..
[15:21:38] <fragalot> I bet some of you even support that facist company called AMD!
[15:21:39] <fragalot> :p
[15:22:44] <archivist_ub> I may have a new Opteron
[15:22:59] <dushantch> I have some old athlon :(
[15:23:23] <fragalot> :o
[15:23:26] <archivist_ub> my cnc runs an 800 meg athlon
[15:23:44] <fragalot> the ones at work run 200Mhz Pmmx's, lol
[15:24:07] <archivist_ub> my webserver is PII 200 meg dual
[15:24:08] <fragalot> :( i want some time to finish mine... actually.. to start on mine.
[15:24:21] <fragalot> my gaming rig is a Sinclair QL!
[15:24:22] <fragalot> * fragalot wins
[15:24:58] <dushantch> commodore 64?
[15:25:02] <fragalot> my webserver is a dual intel Xeon 2.6Ghz
[15:25:02] <dushantch> tape drive?
[15:25:10] <fragalot> dushantch: the QL has tape cartridges, yes
[15:25:15] <archivist_ub> hmm I may beat that as I have a Science of Cambridge computer that has an SC/MP processor
[15:25:22] <fragalot> I think i also have an abacus somewhere.
[15:25:35] <dushantch> I have 10 fingers :)
[15:25:48] <dushantch> but can't count that much :(
[15:25:56] <fragalot> I have a wooden stick and a sharp rock!
[15:26:24] <fragalot> so i can count the number of legs and devide that by 4, so i know how many sheep i have.
[15:29:12] <dushantch> LOL
[15:32:27] <fragalot> so.. who here lives close to belgium and wishes to donate a used CNC machine. ^_^
[15:33:28] <archivist_ub> make one !
[15:33:38] <dushantch> why not new one? always ask more!
[15:34:07] <archivist_ub> looking on epay, there are some hulks available
[15:34:53] <fragalot> last time you showed me something on ebay i paid for a free objecT.... lol
[15:35:05] <archivist_ub> :)
[15:35:14] <fragalot> dushantch: because nobody here would be crazy enough to give a hobbyist a brand new machine :&
[15:35:17] <dushantch> here we buy old machining centers from swiss and swe factories
[15:35:24] <archivist_ub> fools are easily parted from their money
[15:35:39] <dushantch> fragalot: but if you ask more they give you less and you're happy
[15:36:20] <dushantch> if you ask for less and they give you even less that's sad :)
[15:36:24] <fragalot> dushantch: lol
[15:36:34] <fragalot> hell, i'd be happy with just the drive for it
[15:36:34] <fragalot> :D
[15:37:11] <archivist_ub> cnc with a dead toolchanger went for £621 the other day 250278112844
[15:37:30] <fragalot> :o
[15:37:49] <dushantch> dunno, there were bargains here like <20workhours CNC lathe with powered toolchanger for like 1500eu
[15:37:58] <fragalot> well no point in going on ebay now,.. Don't have enough funds even for shipment, lol
[15:38:02] <dushantch> but you'd have to know right people :)
[15:38:09] <fragalot> dushantch: yeah
[15:38:23] <archivist_ub> thats why I didnt bid :((
[15:38:23] <fragalot> i /COULD/ score an old machine, but it's too big.. lol
[15:38:47] <fragalot> ~ 4 meters long, 3 meters deep,... catch my drift?
[15:39:01] <fragalot> it would BARELY fit in my garage :/ (big garage ^_^à
[15:39:15] <archivist_ub> hmm just about right, mod the garage
[15:39:19] <fragalot> http://cgi.ebay.com/3-AXIS-CNC-DRIVER-BOARD-4-STEPPER-MOTOR-CNC-ROUTER-MILL_W0QQitemZ300249106017QQihZ020QQcategoryZ78197QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[15:39:22] <fragalot> :op
[15:39:39] <fragalot> archivist_ub: but ontop of the garage i built a lil' "loft".. i'd hate to tear that down.. the machine is too high
[15:39:57] <fragalot> would I bid for that board?
[15:40:46] <fragalot> starting bid $50, shipping $19
[15:40:50] <fragalot> gah don't have that much in paypal
[15:41:35] <fragalot> * fragalot hates the life of a student
[15:42:13] <dushantch> fragalot: you're crazy, that's the best time
[15:42:20] <fragalot> dushantch: money-wise
[15:42:35] <dushantch> when yo put it like that :(
[15:42:55] <fragalot> exactly
[15:43:48] <fragalot> i hate this
[15:43:57] <fragalot> i find a complete kid for $400 ... and they only ship to america
[15:43:58] <fragalot> >.>
[15:44:09] <fragalot> http://cgi.ebay.com/Small-CNC-router-hardware-kit_W0QQitemZ180276095676QQihZ008QQcategoryZ55826QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
[15:44:30] <fragalot> belgium isn't in the list.
[15:44:37] <dushantch> kid? who ships kids to america?
[15:44:48] <fragalot> dushantch: people, the mafia
[15:45:13] <dushantch> it's cheaper to make one :)
[15:45:30] <fragalot> depends on the age
[15:45:32] <fragalot> :p
[15:45:47] <fragalot> gah i want that router kit but .. gah
[15:45:48] <fragalot> :p
[15:46:22] <dushantch> I have a friend that orders a lot of CNC and machining stuff from china
[15:46:24] <fragalot> I mean.. 2 controllers, 9 stepper motors, couplers,... everything! :'(
[15:46:27] <fragalot> dushantch: got a site?
[15:46:28] <fragalot> :)
[15:46:43] <dushantch> shipping is pricier than the gear
[15:46:48] <dushantch> he ordered vices :)
[15:47:07] <fragalot> lol yeah
[15:47:13] <fragalot> depends on how much you order tho
[15:47:28] <fragalot> if i want computer parts, above $150 it's cheaper to buy in america, than it is to go to the local store
[15:51:41] <fragalot> http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/Small-CNC-3-Mill-Milling-Machine-X-135-Y-150Z-15mm-y_W0QQitemZ130244585877QQihZ003QQcategoryZ34056QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[15:51:52] <fragalot> lol, manual
[15:53:15] <jepler> the internet gives me a clue that this might be the chip on that driver board: http://www.mdfly.com/newmdfly/products/CNC/MDTA8435H/8435.pdf -- clue from ta8435 coming up in conjunction with "univelop" on this google search http://www.google.com/search?q=univelop+stepper+driver&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
[15:54:29] <jepler> first note is that it's 1.5A average / 2.5A peak
[15:54:53] <fragalot> won't be needing much more
[15:55:18] <fragalot> atm my wallet won't let me get it either.. they messed something up and are late in paying me
[15:55:21] <fragalot> :p
[15:55:23] <fragalot> :'(
[15:56:48] <cradek> jepler: sure looks easy to use
[15:57:36] <fragalot> what the HELL is the point in ebay's "reserve" thing
[15:57:40] <jepler> "clock frequency" (rate of step pulses) is limited to 5kHz
[15:58:36] <jepler> (datasheet page 11)
[15:58:44] <fragalot> food, bbl
[15:59:30] <BigJohnT> work, bbl
[16:03:49] <jepler> interesting -- on pdf page 20 "application circuit" they have only one protection diode per output (to GND), not two (one to GND, one to VCC) like I'm familiar with in l298-based designs
[16:04:57] <archivist_ub> some devices have inherent diodes in the IC
[16:09:58] <fragalot> archivist_ub: yes, but those aren't really up to the task
[16:10:13] <fragalot> sure it 'l protect it the first 4 minutes or so,...
[16:10:37] <archivist_ub> depnds on device, ULN2003 is a typical designed like that device
[16:11:25] <fragalot> I still prefer to put an external diode :p
[16:11:45] <fragalot> just needs to be fast switching.. otherwise it's kinda useless
[16:12:00] <fragalot> :( bored
[16:12:26] <archivist_ub> I finished my gears, just waiting for customer now
[16:12:55] <fragalot> i hate waiting :/ means i get to clean the shop
[16:14:20] <cradek> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/12/3
[16:15:01] <fragalot> O.O
[16:15:19] <fragalot> but where is the turd!
[16:33:51] <fragalot> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10016171-16.htm
[16:33:52] <fragalot> Awesome.
[16:45:57] <jepler> hm the internet thinks ta8435 and imt901 are the same chip. this imt901 datasheet shows clearly the required step and direction timings, which give a maximum step rate of 50kHz (10/10 for step, 5/10 for direction) -- http://www.netzmafia.de/buecher/linuxhackz/Datenblaetter/Motor-Servo-Stepper/IMT901.pdf "Signalschaltzeiten" on the middle right of the first page
[17:06:44] <stustev1> I don't know about everyone else but I find the metric system easier to use and understand :)
[17:21:50] <micges> stustev1: me too :)
[17:26:52] <tom1> metric is good (shift decimal places to mux/div) , while inch is more... demanding? sorta like mental gymnastics (ask any metric trained machinist what 7/32 is:) cutting stuff up in halves is 'natural'. fine tools have been made in both units of measure
[17:28:59] <skunkworks> cradek: do you have a second?
[17:29:21] <archivist_ub> 1/60th of a degree?
[17:29:51] <tom1> G41(1/2 letter N drill )
[17:42:05] <stustev1> skunkworks: I second for cradek
[17:42:33] <skunkworks> heh - could you explain this then? http://imagebin.org/24160
[17:42:44] <skunkworks> I was trying to see if there was a way to debug that..
[17:43:40] <skunkworks> stustev1: how is the 5 axis machine coming? any new videos?
[17:44:38] <cradek> skunkworks: haha, I have no clue
[17:45:14] <jepler> if you're talking about gcode.ulp "of" only appears in comments and strings
[17:45:26] <skunkworks> odd
[17:46:01] <skunkworks> it works for the sample layouts but when I try to run it on mine - it errors with 'of'
[17:46:13] <jepler> oh oh oh
[17:46:14] <skunkworks> 'if'
[17:46:15] <jepler> it's in your filename
[17:46:21] <skunkworks> oh?
[17:46:22] <stustev1> the spindle is back in the machine. I hope to be out there later today to start it up.
[17:46:23] <jepler> rename it so that no spaces appear in the filename
[17:46:28] <jepler> "copy of curlim"
[17:46:32] <skunkworks> oh - ok.
[17:46:35] <skunkworks> let me try
[17:47:35] <cradek> ohhhh good eye
[17:47:56] <skunkworks> That was awesome.. Thanks much
[18:25:42] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/24164
[18:25:51] <micges> It is very hard to add FEEDOVERRIDE hal pin to motion module ?
[18:25:55] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/24162
[18:26:10] <cradek> I think halui already has feed override
[18:26:20] <cradek> motion has adaptive feed (which is realtime)
[18:27:08] <jepler> cradek: yes that's the pin motion.adaptive-feed which is enabled/disabled by M52 P-
[18:27:26] <jepler> as opposed to the GUI-level feed override which is enabled/disabled by another code and is accessible through halui
[18:28:00] <jepler> these are documented in the manpages for halui and motion
[18:28:01] <cradek> skunkworks: that could really benefit from a run through gopt
[18:31:16] <micges> ok It is in halui but read only
[18:32:40] <cradek> there are increase/decrease pins, as well as a counts pin so you can hook up an encoder style knob
[18:33:33] <cradek> I verified that these work in 2.2.6
[18:34:28] <micges> I verified
[18:34:34] <micges> that too
[18:35:11] <micges> ok must combine those all
[18:40:21] <jepler> tell me why this is a dumb way to debounce a switch with an NO and an NC contact: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/debounce.png
[18:41:39] <archivist_ub> cant think of one unless you choose silly values for R and C
[18:42:58] <jepler> if 1 closes before 3 opens you have a short circuit, but I think switches typically break-before-make
[18:44:19] <archivist_ub> usually yes
[18:45:13] <archivist_ub> should stop induced noise at the input
[18:48:29] <jepler> skunkworks: gopt is a part of this package: http://axis.unpy.net/downloads/01103508580 but rather than the version on that page I always use the version from http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/tsp/ -- you do have to compile it from source iirc
[19:10:59] <skunkworks> jepler: thanks.
[19:11:06] <skunkworks> * skunkworks wonders how to compile it..
[19:14:05] <cradek> maybe: python setup.py install
[19:14:23] <jepler> maybe with sudo
[19:19:55] <robin_sz> meh
[19:37:37] <robin_sz> not having much luck with this pid tuning ...
[19:38:21] <robin_sz> I cant seem to ingrease P much above about 2 before it all goes unstable
[19:39:46] <robin_sz> given my maximum ferror is 0.5mm
[19:40:07] <robin_sz> that presumably means I m never getting more than 1V out of Aout
[19:40:32] <robin_sz> ie 1/10th of the drive of my servo amp
[19:46:35] <davidf> cradek, Thanks for the help last night on the acceleration. It is fine now, just was off by factor of 60 in the config wizard. (deg/sec^2) had as if minutes. just not paying attention.
[19:49:01] <davidf> Still getting an ungraceful end of operability until a restart after about 45 minutes or an hour of operation. I get a system slowdown in response time to keyboard input, and then finally it gives a joint 3 following error (A axis) and won't run till I restart. Iv'e always had that problem. Anybody know why that might happen?
[20:07:58] <jepler> davidf: if axis starts to slow down and become less responsive, hit ctrl-k to clear the live plot.
[20:10:18] <davidf> OOPS. Sorry for the j-tab...
[20:11:31] <davidf> jepler, thanks. Will that fix the following error too?
[20:11:35] <jepler> davidf: unlikely
[20:12:45] <davidf> Any ideas why that would always show up, but only after about an hour or so? Seems like a memory leak or something -??
[20:15:55] <jepler> do you always turn the motor in the same direction? 10000s of turns?
[20:17:25] <jepler> (or if not always, is there a net turn always in one direction)
[20:18:26] <jepler> the thing I know about is that at a certain place emc has limited precision for motor position. A quick calculation indicates that you might start being affected by that limit when you get to around 10000 revolutions (3600000 degrees)
[20:30:35] <davidf> jepler, sorry I was away for a couple minutes. Yes, I do that. I use it for production of small parts, and turn the lathe chuck while cutting off, etc. with live tooling.
[20:31:00] <davidf> I use g92 A 0 at the start of each run. Is that a problem?
[20:31:15] <jepler> yes, the internal position keeps adding up until you hit this precision limitation
[20:31:18] <cradek> could you poke the home button instead? that would work around it
[20:31:33] <jepler> cradek: I'm not sure that's true, but it's worth a try
[20:31:42] <jepler> (the problem is the motor position passing through hal in a 32-bit float)
[20:31:48] <cradek> oh ok, I might be wrong
[20:32:18] <davidf> cradek, I don't have any hardware switches... would I need a home switch?
[20:32:39] <cradek> no, if you were already at some multiple of 0, and you poke home on A, it will reset to 0
[20:32:43] <archivist_ub> ew /me forsees problems with hobbing with that limitation
[20:33:23] <cradek> could you do some things, like the live tool parting, turning it backwards instead?
[20:33:59] <davidf> I could turn the chuck back an equal number of times I guess, but that would slow down the process considerably.
[20:34:26] <cradek> hmm.
[20:34:46] <davidf> The main thing that racks up the revs is cutting a point on a small shaft.
[20:35:06] <cradek> I wish this wasn't so hard to fix. we've talked about better ways to handle rotaries, but only talk.
[20:35:39] <jepler> we'd love to lift the precision limitation but because of some technical limitations of the x86 CPU it's not as easy as you might first imagine.
[20:36:04] <cradek> when everyone (everyone!) has 64 bit machines the problem can disappear
[20:36:26] <davidf> Let's see, there is a new manual tool change, yes?
[20:36:52] <cradek> there is a manual tool change prompt you can enable
[20:37:10] <davidf> If I wrote the code to do two parts back to back, with a pause in between, and turn backwards in the second pass, that might work...?
[20:37:43] <cradek> yes if you find a way to not wind up, it will run forever
[20:38:55] <davidf> cradek, thanks.. That is doable. I'm using a grinder on the cross slde, and turning the part real slow so backwards S/B no problem!
[20:39:04] <cradek> ah, nice.
[20:39:12] <cradek> just curious - what is the part?
[20:39:28] <jepler> if you want the dry technical details of why we use such a limited-precision type for axis positions: http://axis.unpy.net/01189609097
[20:39:51] <davidf> That's great. Parts are mandrel blanks for diamond abrasive tools.
[20:40:13] <davidf> jepler, thanks, I'll have a look when I have time.
[20:40:47] <micges> jepler: this limitation rise in one direction of motor turning right?
[20:41:42] <davidf> cradek, I make tools for glass bead artists who make jewelry and such, The tools are specialized for that niche market. They are optimised to clean and semi-polish the inside of the beads after they are made in a torch.
[20:41:44] <micges> when motor turns back to 0 precision is going back to normal ?
[20:41:46] <jepler> micges: yes, it arises for values in HAL with "large" magnitude. one way to encounter that is to turn an angular axis to millions of degrees
[20:42:39] <cradek> davidf: sounds interesting. and niches are a nice place to be.
[20:42:45] <davidf> jepler, Hmm, Don't think I'm doing millions of degrees... I'll have a think on it though...
[20:43:04] <jepler> davidf: it's possible that you're hitting some other bug, not this limitation that I know about
[20:43:07] <micges> any issues of xyz axes expected by this ?
[20:43:29] <davidf> cradek, Yeah, I'm doing fairly weel with them, about 4 years now.
[20:43:31] <cradek> yes if they go millions of inches or mm
[20:44:07] <davidf> jepler, OK. I'll do a quick ballpark estimate of the revs/too, and such...
[20:44:10] <jepler> micges: no, for a 1km linear axis the precision is 0.05mm, so that's not a problem
[20:45:46] <micges> just making sure, We will design soon machine with servo driven spindle and I have no idea of this kind of problem
[20:46:06] <micges> (making notes that can saves time)
[20:46:18] <jepler> micges: if you control a spindle in velocity mode it also does not matter
[20:46:20] <davidf> jepler, looks like I would hit a million deg. after about 90 tools. I think it happens pretty well before that, like maybe 30.
[20:46:21] <archivist_ub> with hobbing there are positions where the numbers can be reset, it needs a syntax :)
[20:48:15] <davidf> jepler, Oh, but sometimes when I start up emc, the A axis already has large excursion stored from inpout file somewhere...
[20:48:19] <jepler> davidf: it also depends on your FERROR and MIN_FERROR. I predict that problems will begin to occur due to this limitation at about 16000000 * MIN_FERROR axis units, and stepconf seems to write 0.25 MIN_FERROR for the "A" axis.
[20:49:09] <davidf> jepler, yes, I remember that number, and your calc is right on as to about when I crash!
[20:49:17] <micges> for making threads I think that it must be in position mode ?
[20:50:13] <cradek> davidf: that is your leftover G92. you can clear it with G92.1
[20:50:16] <jepler> micges: threading uses the index pulse to reset the position to 0 (really reset it, not like G92 A0) at the start of a thread, so only if you turn million-thread pieces
[20:50:22] <davidf> jepler, No wait, that's at 4 million, but I was thinking 1 mil * .25=250K...
[20:50:59] <jepler> I might be off by a factor of 2 or 4, as well
[20:50:59] <davidf> hmm pretty fine pitch that. :)
[20:51:30] <micges> jepler: you know emc though out
[20:51:41] <jepler> micges: I have many years experience with it by now
[20:52:08] <davidf> Anyway, it certainly is worth a try. It's a pain. Parts arent expensive, but on my mill, I can lose 25 bucks a pop if I crash...
[20:52:48] <jepler> if you find that the problem never occurs before 30 parts, you could make it your practice to restart after 20 parts or the like ..
[20:53:44] <davidf> I'm interested in what cradek just said... Can I just do a g92.1 and fix this whole problem???
[20:53:57] <jepler> no, that's to get rid of the large reading that sometimes appears when you first start emc
[20:54:02] <micges> jepler: on what kind of machine you are working (work/home) ?
[20:54:34] <jepler> micges: pictures of my own machine here -- it's pretty simple/crappy http://axis.unpy.net/01188441458
[20:54:35] <davidf> jepler, darn.
[20:55:25] <alex_joni> oh, I can beat that :P
[20:56:56] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/projects/01157974398
[20:57:41] <davidf> cradek, by the way, I love the new axis with the rotary jogging speed separated from the linear... Nice job, guy, Thanks for all your work, it's a real nice package.
[20:58:06] <cradek> thank you, but I don't remember if I did that or jepler did. :-)
[20:58:32] <davidf> jepler, thanks also! and everyone else
[20:59:12] <jepler> I'm glad it's useful to you
[20:59:59] <davidf> Anyway, I really appreciate you guys every time I make my tools. I simply could not be doing what I do for a living without what you and all the OS folks who created linux / ubuntu, etc. It is simply amazing.
[21:00:34] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:00:41] <cradek> that is very nice to hear. thank you.
[21:00:45] <jepler> alex_joni: at least your machine isn't made from plastic like mine is
[21:00:45] <davidf> If I ever get rich, I won't forget you guys.
[21:01:03] <cradek> if I ever get rich, I'll work on free software more.
[21:01:08] <jepler> though the narrow sherline table is a bit of a limitation
[21:01:37] <jepler> bbl .. all this praise is hard for me to take
[21:02:05] <davidf> cradek, there ya go. me too. Right now, it's all I can do to make the rent.
[21:02:15] <davidf> jepler, need a hanky? LOL
[21:03:04] <davidf> Thanks again, back to the grind.. see ya.
[22:09:08] <dmess> hi all... i still cant boot to the h/d on this machine
[23:27:31] <jmkasunich> archivist_ub: regarding hobbing - if I was doing a hobbing machine, I'd try to use the "encoder_ratio" module to sync things
[23:27:51] <jmkasunich> that is implemented in such a way that it will _never_ overflow or lose precision