hi all.. still pouched to boot to HD
old... had a power surge or something...
fried the p/s... but i thought it might be the battery so i replaced it too with out power...
kind of, it is a computer that has been mainly winxp but had the previous version of ubuntu and emc on it.
so I did install the 8.04 ubuntu over the old version
fenn_ is now known as fenn
i HAVENT pounded 8.04 over it YET.. and would rather NOT
euch! eagle gcode.py gave terrible code on this board with rounded traces .. it seems it is clearing lots of tiny, nearly triangular regions between mitered traces and the ground plane
I am not happy with 8.04
jepler blacklisting the saa.... fixed my problem THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pminmo: oh that's good news
it was a total shot in the dark
well it brought light to my world....
yes but why are you unhappy
I had xubuntu 6-whatever on my old laptop
and now it craaaaawls
the old version had beryl and all sorts of fancy stuff running
now I can barely use xfce
toastydeath: by all maens stick with 6.06 for emc2 .. we'll at least do all 2.2.x-series bugfixes for it
8.04 is fine on my hardware but I tend to spend way too much money on PCs and laptops :(
I don't run emc, I was just talking general usage
I guess I'll install debian base and go with that
I have just not been happy with ubuntu, I guess
jepler: know anything about opto's?
like hpcl 2531 or 6n135 or til19x types or something else
JymmmEMC: only what I read in datasheets
other than ctr, speed and types there isn't any big stumbling blocks
of to the store, later
hey all i got my new martin packpacker guitar today.... what an awesome sound fron such a small guitar..
I heard and old small gibson once that sounded unbelievable
this is 28 inches long and 7 inches tall 2.5 inches deep max
jepler: thanks =)
jepler: I was trying to make heads or tails of a few types, but not enough fundamentals for me to make a determination ;)
the backpacker ist conventionally shaped
wow - the bearings on this surplus spindle cost 276 euros each
[03:40:11] <jmkasunich> http://medias.schaeffler.com/medias/en!hp.ec.br.pr/HC719..-E_FAG*HC71908-E-T-P4S_FAG
jmk - that's scary
those are the back bearings
the front ones are a bit bigger (68mm instead of 62mm OD)
can't read the numbers on those
the back bearing are not angular contact are they?
opposed angular contact at both ends
[03:42:24] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/spindle-and-motor.jpg
two on each end?
I have 14 of the spindles
is there a problem with the bearings?
I'm sure at least a few of the spindles have bearing issues
they were surplus, I think sent for repair
most are tagged with things like "bent drawbar", "galled bore", "spline worn"
I don't think any are tagged for bad bearings
you should easily be able to mix and match for a yield of 8 or 10 spindle out of 14
something like that
actually my goal is to redo the nose tapers
they are HSK25 right now, which is $$$ tooling
to another configuration - right?
[03:45:53] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/surplus_spindle.pdf
that drawing is my best measurements of the existing taper
the front part is about 0.050 smaller than MT3
I have a drawing around here somewhere showing what needs to be done to make them MT3
then you put a 3/4" collet in there, and use with the Tormach system
I just managed to get all the drawbars out, and some of the additional claptrap removed from all of them
my next step is to make a steady to hold the front end bearings, so I can attempt boring
it will be interesting to see if I can even begin to cut the steel
have any of those ceramic inserts left?
those were diamond - and diamond doesn't work on steel
s/were/are - I only killed the one
it took nice chips off a hardened dowel pin, for a little while
I think CBN is the tooling of choice for hard steel
do you have a way to grind it?
the diamond would work if you could machine some non carbon steel
cradek: I might
the problem with MT is it's so very long
the bosch gadget does 48000 RPM, if I can figure out how to put a small-diameter grinding wheel in there
cbn is the material for steel
the tormach tooling only extends up in the collet by 1-3/8", and the collet only bears on the inside of the taper for the first 1-3/4"
the rest is relieved, and only need to have clearance
so I need 1-3/4" of good taper
truncate the taper - you beat me to it
overall depth is still 3-1/8", so even if I don't need accurate, getting in there will be "fun"
with my grinder and cbn wheels - if the wheel is sparking it is not wearing at all - if it is not sparking it is cutting very little
is that your spindle regrinding setup?
mcmaster has CBN mounted points ;-)
if it is not sparking it is cutting very little and wearing a lot
will your grinder handle the load?
its a 400W AC motor (used with a VFD that can go to 300Hz) - definitely better than Dremel class
it will take a llllloooonnnnnggggg time to grind the different shape if you don't rough it with something
yeah, when I said "CBN" I was thinking of boring inserts, not grinding wheels
grind for finish only
if it will to 48,000 rpm the bearing must be pretty good
the bosch spindles? they are small
don't have a pic handy
the main complication with those is that I have _one_ collet, and it is for a 6mm shank
maybe you could have someone (with a cnc lathe and experience cutting taper adapters) make a few for you? :)
a few what?
oh - I don't think so
HSK is just too exotic
no, they'd have to be HSK toolholders I think
I'm actually looking forward to the challenge of reboring the spindles
I understand that concept
hopefully I will succeed before I have ruined all 14 of them
speaking of that, how is the cinci?
if I get one good one, it goes in my gantry mill.... two, and I have a spare... three or more - Profit!
lol hsk has 20 millionth tolerances in the spec
yeah, HSK is just insane
I saw maintenance assembling the hydraulic lines this afternoon. Just about ready to put the spindle in.
cool. what is left after that?
I have the lead screw comp information - I need to tune the axes a little more - soften the drives a little - test cut a part and hopefully that's it
what a long strange trip it's been
oh my - this last detour was my fault entirely - this has been the most aggravating delay I have had
but we are almost back :)
we learned a lot - how to disassemble and reassemble the spindle and gearbox
the bright side!
education is expensive
we will now be able to diagnose problems with a high degree of certainty
A GOOD POINT - we will be able to 5 axis rigid tap
we didn't have the feedback before - now we do
that will be very slick.
very cool if we ever have the need - I will look for opportunities
for that feature you will need to add 20% to the cost of the control software
ha ha ha neat
I would pay double
that's a customer testimonial you don't see on many advertisements
that's a fact
I had lots of success with the lathe today. I have tool change under gcode control, and lots of other things.
my "maybe" spindle ID grinder: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/bosch-48k-spindle-2559.jpg
cradek: what kind of lathe?
hardinge HNC retrofit I'm doing
that looks adequate - it should do the trick
what spindle are you grinding?
I either have to make a new collet for 1/8" shank stones, or somehow reduce the 1/4" shank ones to 6mm (0.236)
cool beans man
toast: I want to change the taper in this: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/spindle-and-motor.jpg
I don't understand how the collet works. is there a drawbar?
yeah what kind of collet is that
no, you turn the hex on the outside, the threads on the inside draw it into the spindle
so is it like, 5c or something
the slits don't show in the photo, they start about half way thru the cylindrical shiny band, and extend forward all they way thru the nut
yeah I see one
sort of like 5C, but instead of drawing it in from the back , you screw it in from the front
very strange to crank on the flexy part to tighten it.
I imaging there will be a bit of runout from that
i mean do you know the actual taper designation
toast: no clue
I have no idea what this is from - it had a 6mm shank solid carbide burr in it
doesn't seem hard to make a new collet. if there is runout, the grinding wheel will "adjust" shortly
I wish I could do 1/4" shank - would be much better than 1/8
toast: you are looking at the spindle grinding collet not the spindle taper he is wanting to change
yeah, there are two spindles we're talking about
small fast one (48K RPM) that I want to use for ID grinding the taper on the larger one
what's the large one?
the large ones are HSK25
hahaha how'd you wind up with an hsk spindle
I wound up with 14 of them to be precise
at $10 each ;-)
and now you need to tool them at 350 per holder, amirite
no, I need to bore and grind the taper to MT3, then use an MT3 - 3/4" collet and Tormach Tooling System
now he wants to retaper them so the tooling is much less expensive
does the ID clamping stuff get in the way of doing that?
or does that whole assembly come out of the spindle pretty easy
drawbar and such? that is all removeable
got the drawbars out yesterday
here is a drawing of the spindle/drawbar/etc: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/surplus_spindle.pdf
the belleville washer stack looks as if it is almost the full length of the spindle. Wiil you be able to use the drawbar and bellvilles with the new system
not sure - after I've made some progress, I'll call tormach and see if they know what drawbar tension is recommended
MT doesn't like compression drawbars
I haven't measured the spring force yet (duh, I should have done that before I pulled all the drawbars out, gotta put one back together)
toast: yeah, I was thinking that might be the case
that skinny part in the front is 6mm - I could make the back part out of say 3/8", and tap the front M6
you can adjust the retention force by adjusting the length of the drawbar
then make a short piece of 6mm drillrod with M6 threads on both ends
mt tapers don't have pullstuds
so they can't use "cnc style" drawbars
in the tormach system, the collet stays in the spindle all the time
so no problem then1
tools have a 3/4" straight shank and a shoulder that goes against the spindle nose
stick it in, and when the collet tightens it pulls the shoulder tight
good rigidity, and very repeatable Z
oh, that'll work great with a drawbar then
a real drawbar, or a spring one?
a spring one
I have to put one back together and measure the spring force
I can compress it without too much trouble using the drill press
you can always change the springs if required?
just collapse a few bellevilles - the force for the whole stack is no more than you get with one washer - the stack just gives you more collapse motion
stustev: true, didn't think of that
although I don't know how I'd measure the force of one or two washers
I think I'll just put the bathroom scale on the drill press table ;-)
how would you measure the force of the stack inside the spindle?
the drawbar sticks out the back a bit
i guess you could use an indicator and a fish scale
set the nose on the scale, push the back with the end if the drill chuck
A BIG fish scale - several hundred pounds
there are two different kinds of spring stacks
i was just referring to the type of scale, not actually suggesting a scale for fish =)
6 of the spindles have bellvilles as in the drawing
the cinci has 5600 lbs of retention pull - the fadals 1000 lbs - the Haas machines are around 1200 lbs (I think)
the other 8 have some weird kind of spiral bellville thing
stustev: I don't think these are that high
what taper's the cinci, 50?
yes - 50 taper
HSK is probably in the 1000 lbs range
Evening folks. Anyone here with a 7x12 mini-lathe?
the harder you push it the harder it clamps
I bet these are under 500
(HSK25 is about the smallest of the HSK tapers)
I wouldn't even want to guess what tormach recommends
lol it can't be 1000 lbs
for MT, 500lb would stick it just about forever wouldn't it?
I'll ask them, once I've determined that can actually scratch the surface inside the bore
Sigh, OK, thanks anyhoo :).
collets have a max clamping pressure - more than the max just starts to distort things
K`zan: is your actual question specific to that lathe?
cradek: you'd be surprised how much force you can get from a 3/8-16 solid drawbar
cradek: which MT
plus a quick knock on the backend of the drawbar
out comes the collet
so, if I need to use a solid drawbar, that can be done - if I can use the springs, that's even easier
i think you have a good setup if you want to use MT3 + tormach
but first I gotta see if I have a snowball's chance in the hot place of even cutting the bore
because MT3 power drawbars need to rotate
so once you get the mt3 in there by hand, the kickout will only affect the tormach tool
the springs will give you a longer life of the collet and more reliable, repeatable clamping
and will let me reuse the existing bar (maybe)
the skinny (6mm) part in the front will need to be shortened
I don't have high hopes of being able to thread it after I cut it off
my shop used to have those
not anymore though
I believe you will be able to cut the spindles. Mill the threads with a carbide cutter.
yar, i doubt the drawbar is any more than like rc-36
I have EDM. If all else fails we will get the tapers like you want.
yay, just tested the drawbar, a file will cut it
same test on the spindle bore, and it laughs at the file
means I'll probably be into the core by the time I do the final taper
should be fine for home shop duty tho
why should home shop duty require anything less than production duty?
less wear resistance is acceptable when the duty cycle is 1 hour a day, a few days a week, vs 8/5 or more
less accuracy is not acceptable
goodnight gentlemen - I need my beauty sleep
gack.... CBN boring insert, .165 IC, $115
I should sleep too - thanks for all your ideas, I _will_ be asking again
don't crash that insert
have to try plain carbide (or even ceramic) first
ceramic will cut it
might not last very long but it'll cut
we actually cut case-hard stuff at work with brazed carbide
as long as you keep touching the cutter up
it will work pretty good
* jmkasunich gotta get working on the steady, so I can chuck one up and see what happens
steady will support the front bearings, so my crappy lathe spindle won't be the limiting factor
apparently i have to sit a certain way or my laptop disconnects
steady goes on here: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/steady-base-on-ways-1837.jpg
yar that is a good idea
I'm hoping that will make a nice rigid setup
time to walk the dog - goodnight
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-08-12.txt
cradek: Problem that I reported was fixed in 2.2.6 (not switching to G61 after abort)
one thing is still not clear to me: what state of interpreter (modes, planes, switches) it has after emergency abort of program (F1) or external signal ?
micges: only running to the end of a program that ends with M2 and M30 defines elements of the interpreter state after the program ends (http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#M2--1).
If you interrupt the program's execution in other ways such as with estop, the state is not defined. That is why I recommend always including modal settings at the top of the program (http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#r8_4)
I wonder whether to skip the RC filter on these switches and instead rely on emc's debounce component -- so far that has been working for me
the internet sure has a lot of opinions about the usefulness and reliability of RC filters as a way to do switch debounce
heh, Ive had fun with software debounce
make an RC too slow and that gives as many problems
jmk wrote emc's software debounce so the odds are that it's as good as it gets :-P
jepler: if you have enough inputs to wire the NC and NO, you could use both
(every once in awhile I just have to step back and marvel at how reliable rtapi, hal, and all the components jmk wrote are)
I think that gives you edge detection (perfect debounce) but what you really want is noise elimination
rc really help when there is a chance someone may operate a handheld radio near the control.... I have seen some very big machines do some strange stuff when the electrician calls his buddy for coffee!
I have an intermittent noise problem but it doesn't seem correlated to running the spindle .. I didn't try using my cellphone, however
and a welder being run nearby
screen stuff if no filter used
you need to look out for metal ants sneezing around the machine
they are carbon fiber ants.. not metal..
those don't create a lot of static charge when sneezing
re defaults at begin of program... use G20 / G21 as you need ( a definite inch bias in the docs )
re debounce: M$'s solution "are you sure?"
garfield is now known as gefink
time for more servo tuning fun!
just been reading jmk's blog on the giddings servo tune "We got to hear what it sounds like when a multi-ton table starts to oscillate at 5-10 cycles per second, pushed by a 45 amp servo drive."
I want to play!
mine is decidely not that big
but seemingly a PITA to tune
having only 500PPR encoders is not helping .. it sounds as rough as fsck with even a little bit of D term
P + a little FF1 seems ok,
I am able to get tkemc to work, but when i try mini, it won't come off of estop. Any idea?
mini behaves differently than the other guis when it comes to estop handling at the keyboard. I'm not too familiar with it, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt
when the button says 'estop push' that's actually the "machine on" mode. The label should be interpreted as: this button can now be pushed (clicked) to activate estop
when you've actually entered the estop state it says "estopped"
there'a third state "estop reset"
If the button says "estopped", press F1 to leave estop and go into machine on mode
if it says "estop reset", press F1 to go into machine on mode
If it says "estop push", press F1 to go to "estopped" or F2 to go to "estop reset"
clicking the button is always like pressing F1
this is how it behaves for me when running the sim/mini sample configuration file
mini was written for sherline mills which don't have an external estop, or at least not one that goes into the PC, and it works a bit differently from tkemc or axis (axis is what I'm most familiar with)
and here's what the docs have to say about it: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui_mini.html#r1_4_6
Guest978: I hope that helps you understand what mini is doing and how to use it
i got dissconnected
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-08-12.txt
my connection must have some issues
Guest865: read that :)
jepler wrote a lot of things .. :)
Guest865: but basicly the idea is that mini has some other e-stop concepts as tkemc
iirc it comes on enabled by default
read the log at : http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-08-12.txt
jepler: cradek: where is your eagle script again?
[21:14:42] <alex_joni> http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/eagle/ulp/
alex_joni: thank you very much
alex_joni: what was your search criteria?
eagle ulp unpy
ah. not even close. :)
skunkworks: it's also on this page: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
it has been a long day
yeah, same here
good night all
stupid quetion.. .run files on ubuntu.. how does that work?
I am trying to install 5.1.0 eagle on ubuntu and it isn't in the package manager.. So I downloaded it from eagles site
found it. have not tried it.. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=239797&highlight=.run