#emc | Logs for 2008-08-07

[00:03:28] <pminmo> jepler are you still around?
[00:04:12] <jepler> oh kinda
[00:04:22] <pminmo> I owe you a cold drink, that was the problem, buttttt now x won't touch off
[00:04:43] <pminmo> y and z will but not x
[00:06:06] <jepler> ok, so you're in 'machine on', hit 'x' then 'end', what happens?
[00:06:34] <pminmo> back downstairs to try
[00:10:29] <pminmo> brings up the touch off window
[00:10:51] <jepler> ok, so it's the window that doesn't work?
[00:11:00] <jepler> what's it do?
[00:11:18] <pminmo> if I enter a number it offsets by that amount
[00:11:29] <pminmo> i.e. 0.0 = -9.5
[00:11:37] <pminmo> -1 = 1-.5
[00:11:41] <pminmo> 10.5
[00:12:20] <pminmo> could I have a offset variable set
[00:14:46] <pminmo> maybe I'm not understanding touch off verses the g54 coordinates
[00:15:12] <jepler> there is also the G92 offset. You can zero it out by doing G92.1 in MDI
[00:16:04] <pminmo> does it remember the g92 from session to session
[00:16:20] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems
[00:17:39] <pminmo> I wish I had seen that yesterday.........I keep looking through the manuals
[00:17:52] <jepler> sometimes the right information is hard to find
[00:18:52] <pminmo> believe me I know
[00:19:32] <pminmo> I love the way emc moves, but.........setup and finding the right info to setup and then fixing a problem
[00:20:49] <pminmo> i really appreciate the help, hopefully one of these days I can be knowledgable enough to pitch in
[00:21:28] <jepler> it's frustrating sometimes when I just can't get to the bottom of the problem somebody's having
[00:22:55] <jepler> did the G92.1 "fix" it?
[00:23:41] <SWPadnos> pminmo, you could (a) put the information you were looking for in the manual or (b) make it more obvious if it's all already there :)
[00:24:49] <pminmo> yes it did
[00:25:00] <jepler> woo now I'll have that cold drink you promised me
[00:25:58] <pminmo> swpadnos, right now i'm too unsure of what I do know vs. what I don't to add/change anything
[00:26:26] <SWPadnos> ok, then there's (c) - tell someone where you would have expected to find the information :)
[00:27:18] <pminmo> I always to a "search" in either the emc user manual or integrators manual
[00:27:37] <pminmo> but I understand why it's easier to have it in the wiki
[00:27:41] <SWPadnos> ah - so there's no really good answer, unless you and the folks who wrote the specs use the same words
[00:27:52] <pminmo> yup
[00:28:17] <jepler> well IMO the answer is that the wiki text should be adapted to expand this section of the gcode manual .. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sub:Coordinate-Systems
[00:28:44] <pminmo> in my feeble mind the answer is a good "front end" for the .ini and .hal file
[00:29:00] <pminmo> at least for 3 and 4 axis machines
[00:29:13] <jepler> at least section 1 of the wiki page should be, maybe the other sections go other places
[00:29:58] <jepler> pminmo: well, that's what stepconf is trying to be, for a certain class of machine
[00:30:50] <pminmo> it's a step in the right direction, but since it looses sync with tweaks that need to be done manually
[00:30:56] <pminmo> ....
[00:31:33] <pminmo> is stepconf written in python
[00:31:39] <jepler> yes it is
[00:32:13] <pminmo> and what does the python development enviornment look like?
[00:32:19] <pminmo> ide
[00:33:00] <pminmo> or is there an ide
[00:33:16] <jepler> personally, I'm an old style guy and I use a terminal and vi. here's a list of some of the more graphically oriented IDEs, though: http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments
[00:33:44] <pminmo> have any recommendations
[00:34:28] <pminmo> i.e. maybe know somebody that has a preference
[00:36:30] <jepler> well, I know that eclipse is well-respected by java developers and has packages available in ubuntu 8.04
[00:36:53] <SWPadnos> I use kate, nano, or gedit FWIW
[00:37:20] <SWPadnos> though I have tried Anjuta for some stuff, and I like it a lot (when it doesn't crash and take my work with it)
[00:37:37] <pminmo> swp for a complete newbie to python
[00:37:42] <SWPadnos> that's me
[00:37:49] <pminmo> i can spell it thats all
[00:38:11] <SWPadnos> I can read it, but only because it's similar in some ways to other text-based languages ;)
[00:40:02] <pminmo> later I'm off to work on a machine.... thanks all
[00:40:08] <SWPadnos> see ya
[00:42:50] <fenn> roman character set
[00:45:16] <SWPadnos> that really helps me
[01:27:40] <jmkasunich> hmm, the first result from this seach seems a bit fishy
[01:27:44] <jmkasunich> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=I-beam+strength+calculator&btnG=Search
[01:31:48] <skunkworks_> this website wants you to install the 'microsoft dynamic html editing control'
[01:32:32] <jmkasunich> you clicked on the result?
[01:32:48] <skunkworks_> sure. whats the worst that could happen ;)
[01:33:16] <jmkasunich> I've never seen a URL like "5.hwpjzdrbu.com"
[01:33:27] <jmkasunich> whois doesn't know what it is either
[01:33:28] <skunkworks_> I am assuming it isn't microsofts dynamic html editing control
[01:33:43] <skunkworks_> but I didn't 'install' it
[01:34:41] <jmkasunich> how does something like that manage to be the #1 hit on google
[01:35:28] <skunkworks_> good question
[01:38:00] <skunkworks_> yahoo doesn't seem to return it at all
[01:40:24] <jmkasunich> nslookup returned, and whois returned "extendedhost.com"
[01:45:03] <skunkworks_> I was going to add an disabled/current limit led to the board.. but I could not find a place to fit it.. :)
[01:45:34] <skunkworks_> plus I would have had to use one of the unused inverters because none of the logic can sink/source enough current.
[01:45:52] <skunkworks_> not enough room to add a simple resistor either.
[01:46:15] <skunkworks_> *transistor
[01:46:33] <skunkworks_> I think I may have reached the limit of the board. :)
[01:48:08] <skunkworks_> jmkasunich: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=64414&d=1218065110
[01:48:37] <jmkasunich> what about it?
[01:48:59] <jmkasunich> YAHB
[01:49:08] <skunkworks_> yahb?
[01:49:15] <SWPadnos> yet another H Bridge
[01:49:20] <skunkworks_> heh
[01:49:38] <skunkworks_> they inverted the pwm for the right side after the flip flop..
[01:49:51] <SWPadnos> skunkworks_, have you changed all the resistors to the vertical footprint?
[01:49:54] <skunkworks_> jeez left side
[01:50:24] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: no. most of the time I am running traces under them
[01:50:26] <jmkasunich> skunkworks_: I'm not going to try to read somebody's mind
[01:50:30] <SWPadnos> ah
[01:51:06] <SWPadnos> IC3 looks very important!
[01:51:11] <SWPadnos> (whatever it is)
[01:51:18] <skunkworks_> jmkasunich: understood :) I am pretty sure the logic I am using is right.. As I did breadboard it and it seemed to make sense to me
[01:52:11] <jmkasunich> over current should turn all four FETs off, until you reset them
[01:52:29] <jmkasunich> you can choose to reset them on the next PWM edge, or by some other method
[01:53:15] <jmkasunich> how you do that is up to you - there are as many ways of setting up the logic as there are designers
[01:53:31] <skunkworks_> the way mine seems to work is once the current is tripped - the bridge won't come back on until the next rising edge of the pwm input.
[01:53:53] <jmkasunich> that seems somewhat reasonable
[01:53:58] <jmkasunich> a lot depends on your goals
[01:53:59] <skunkworks_> as long as the current has lowered below
[01:54:21] <jmkasunich> do you intend to run in current limit, or is your goal simply to prevent smoke?
[01:54:32] <skunkworks_> prevent smoke
[01:54:52] <skunkworks_> self preservation
[01:54:56] <jmkasunich> to be really safe, you could reset on an edge of the enable signal
[01:54:56] <skunkworks_> ;)
[01:55:07] <jmkasunich> so once tripped, it will stay tripped until you disable and re-enable
[01:56:31] <skunkworks_> hmm.. Do you think hitting the current limit too often will cause problems?
[01:56:42] <jmkasunich> that all depends
[01:57:01] <jmkasunich> on how far the trip point is below the smoke point
[01:57:16] <skunkworks_> oh - in my mind it is quite a bit lower.
[01:57:21] <skunkworks_> :)
[01:58:24] <skunkworks_> the max I will ever push this is 20 amps. the fets are 'rated' for 40. (they will not run at that - if you remember you helped me see the light about manufacturers lies)
[01:58:57] <skunkworks_> :)
[02:06:48] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/finalquestionmark.PNG
[02:07:00] <skunkworks_> unless I change something :)_
[02:07:48] <skunkworks_> or someone points out a stupid mistake.. ;)
[02:13:52] <skunkworks_> I think it looks pretty
[02:16:28] <SWPadnos> it does look nice
[02:16:57] <SWPadnos> one question though - the thermals on the lower pads of the sense resistor - are those big enough for the current you want to push?
[02:17:43] <jmkasunich> I'd not bother with thermals - you are going to mech etch and hand solder this board
[02:17:44] <SWPadnos> (I guess I'm assuming that PAD4 and PAD5 are the output)
[02:22:35] <cradek> I think 6,7 are output; 4,5 are for the capacitor
[02:22:55] <jmkasunich> yep
[02:23:05] <jmkasunich> 5 is plus bus, 4 is minus
[02:24:13] <cradek> where does the tachometer hook up?
[02:24:32] <jmkasunich> you are joking, right?
[02:24:45] <cradek> right.
[02:25:45] <cradek> just pondering how different this is from my lathe
[02:26:17] <cradek> I found tonight that the huge transformer I assumed was the DC bus for the servos is actually the ttl power supply
[02:26:29] <cradek> the servo transformer is one of the smaller ones
[02:26:32] <jmkasunich> lol
[02:27:01] <jmkasunich> thats weird - I thought you were gonna say the servo transformer was the even bigger one somewhere else
[02:27:20] <cradek> no, it's surprisingly small
[02:27:36] <jmkasunich> s/surprisingly/suspiciously/ ?
[02:27:38] <cradek> 1 ft3, maybe
[02:27:54] <cradek> well, the servos are surprisingly small too
[02:28:00] <jmkasunich> oh, small in a relative way only - 1 cu-ft is a big transformer
[02:28:42] <cradek> it's a nice package with rectifiers, heat sink, etc. I can swipe it and use it as-is.
[02:29:10] <jmkasunich> you need to take some photos
[02:29:24] <cradek> yeah I should before I tear it up
[02:29:46] <cradek> I spent (wasted) some more time trying to get it to read a tape tonight. It just refuses.
[02:29:58] <jmkasunich> it is a smart machine
[02:30:07] <jmkasunich> tape is for closing boxes
[02:30:16] <cradek> I thought it might detect the sprocket holes and refuse to run without them, so I punched some blank tape
[02:30:45] <cradek> when I hit estop, it jogs the tape backward six inches -- that's all it will ever do
[02:32:35] <cradek> it's silly, but I would have liked to see it run as-is a bit. it's as old as I am - pretty cool technology.
[02:33:29] <jmkasunich> I have never been able to get into old electronics - old mechanics yeah, maybe old power electronics, but never the signal/logic stuff
[02:34:54] <cradek> interesting. I'm fascinated by this thing that can (should) pretty much do all the things done by a modern cnc, but doesn't have a microprocessor. it's like an alien artifact.
[02:35:09] <jmkasunich> I didn't hesitate for a second to completley gut the control box on my Van Norman (contactors, etc, 1940's vintage)
[02:36:19] <cradek> like tube radios, I think of it as almost perverse - it's crazy what they had to go through when they should have just waited a few years and then done it so simply. [of course I know this is nonsense]
[02:36:49] <jmkasunich> yeah, things like making one active device do double or triple duty
[02:37:58] <cradek> another crazy part is that in 76-78 there *were* computers that would have made it much simpler, but they had this monstrosity already in production...
[02:38:15] <jmkasunich> what computers?
[02:38:50] <LawrenceG> 8080
[02:38:52] <cradek> the 8080 was everywhere
[02:39:14] <LawrenceG> I built one in 75/76
[02:39:55] <jmkasunich> how many engineering hours would it have taken to convert the hardware design to software, how many painfully discovered and fixed bugs in the old system would be re-introduced....
[02:40:10] <LawrenceG> was in 3rd year eng scholl.... my department said "now what would you need a computer for?"
[02:40:18] <cradek> and who knows how the prices would compare
[02:40:45] <jmkasunich> well, the price of an 8080 was probably less than 100x the price of a 7400 series logic chip
[02:40:51] <cradek> rca 1802, 1974
[02:41:00] <jmkasunich> so if there are more than 100 logic chips, it would have been a win
[02:41:08] <cradek> heh, there are
[02:41:27] <jmkasunich> but if it saved a few hundred $, it would take a heck of a lot of units to recover the engineering time
[02:41:52] <LawrenceG> big boards full of cmos were also popular in the late 70's
[02:41:54] <jmkasunich> even in the 70's they could probably have spend $100K or more converting the design
[02:41:54] <cradek> they could get rid of the handwired backplane... it must have been a lot of hours of work
[02:41:56] <SWPadnos> the wiring on one of those boards would be another $500-1000 win
[02:42:28] <SWPadnos> and the board material wasn't free either - just reducing the board from 3 square feet to 1 would have helped ;)
[02:43:52] <jmkasunich> retraining all the service people would add up on the other side of the scale
[02:44:04] <cradek> true
[02:44:34] <cradek> I bet while they were building this in 76-78 they were working madly on a new design. I doubt it was either-or.
[02:44:49] <jmkasunich> could be
[02:44:53] <cradek> the bridgeport is from '83 and it's much (!) more modern
[02:45:06] <jmkasunich> but I bet many companies didn't change until the competition forced them to
[02:46:05] <jmkasunich> wtf - SWPadnos, the pen you gave me doesn't write well - I want my money back!
[02:46:14] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[02:46:19] <SWPadnos> Parker refills :)
[02:46:55] <SWPadnos> I noticed that some of the pens had a hard time starting - the paper type ended up being importnat (post-it notes didn't work so well, standard printer paper did ...)
[02:48:35] <jepler> this is a fascinating graph -- it shows different forecasts intel made of itanium sales over many years -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Itanium_Sales_Forecasts_edit.png
[02:49:33] <cradek> they sure want exponential growth, don't they
[02:49:47] <SWPadnos> they want a larger exponent
[02:53:11] <jmkasunich> they must have been on drugs
[02:53:25] <cradek> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310072897834
[02:53:40] <cradek> * cradek notes that this control has four of the relatively rare 1101 ram chips in it
[02:54:04] <jmkasunich> heh, you can make $400 right there!
[02:54:20] <cradek> those and the display tubes...
[02:54:34] <cradek> I might come out ahead :-)
[02:55:02] <cradek> amazingly all but one of the tubes is good
[02:55:45] <jmkasunich> what kind of tube?
[02:56:02] <cradek> numitron (incandescent filament 7 segment)
[02:56:18] <cradek> only one of them has one segment out
[02:56:30] <skunkworks_> http://cgi.ebay.com/Intel-C1101A-1101-PMOS-Static-RAM-IC-Chip-RARE-4004_W0QQitemZ310072897834QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
[02:57:27] <skunkworks_> oops
[03:00:31] <cradek> I think the cosmac elf used one of these chips for its ram - people still want to build them. 1802 processors are still readily available, only the ram is hard to find.
[03:04:46] <LawrenceG> http://unicornelectronics.com/IC/STATIC.html ... interesting.... 5101 for 6.99
[03:05:19] <LawrenceG> first ram I used was 2102 static rams
[03:06:06] <jmkasunich> 2716 2kx8 eproms, and the same size ram (don't recall the number tho)
[03:06:15] <jmkasunich> with a Z-80
[03:06:49] <LawrenceG> probably 6116
[03:07:08] <cradek> dunno about first, but I've burned a LOT of 2716s over several years that I was using F8s in projects
[03:07:30] <cradek> 2k is sure a lot of (handwritten) machine code
[03:07:40] <LawrenceG> hey
[03:08:13] <cradek> I used to have 8 at a time in the eraser...
[03:08:23] <LawrenceG> the complete northstar disk os fit in 2kx8
[03:08:33] <cradek> not the best way to debug a program :-)
[03:09:35] <cradek> hey I've played with northstar dos... but I think I booted it from floppy
[03:09:57] <cradek> the northstar didn't have a front panel - it used rom on the disk controller to bootstrap
[03:12:47] <jepler> jepler has changed the topic to: Welcome! EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based opensource CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.2.5 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org
[03:13:18] <cradek> ?
[03:13:27] <cradek> are you making a release?
[03:14:58] <cradek> oh, I see it had been changed to something else - odd
[03:15:06] <jmkasunich> what was it before?
[03:15:26] <cradek> 04:11:46 [freenode] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[03:15:35] <jmkasunich> ah
[03:24:28] <LawrenceG> chris... i still have my Imsaii with front panel... converted to northstar with update on cpu board to 4mhz z80 and the boot rom/disk controller board
[03:25:14] <cradek> cool! we've got an imsai in the basement too ... repaired it in about '97 and I suppose it would work if I would go turn it on
[03:25:31] <LawrenceG> I actually had it running fortran and a graphics display around 512x480.... big stuff
[03:25:33] <cradek> also has a z80 in it
[03:25:39] <cradek> neat
[03:26:19] <cradek> this one has just a serial console, and we never managed to get cpm going on it. I think our floppy was bad or something. but got northstar dos working on it.
[03:26:20] <LawrenceG> It would be very retro to make a front panel for todays computers....
[03:26:45] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ 's computer experience only starts with the TI99/4a
[03:27:25] <cradek> skunkworks_: Parsec!
[03:27:48] <LawrenceG> the northstar os worked fine.... I built 3 disk drives mounted into an old heathkit radio cabinet!
[03:28:58] <LawrenceG> If you need northstar disks, I may be able to help if I can still read them.... need to update the bios to support thumb drives!
[03:30:17] <cradek> we have (or had) northstar dos that works, don't have cp/m (it has been 10 years since we messed with it)
[03:32:25] <cradek> we had a lot of trouble finding hard sectored floppies iirc
[03:41:53] <LawrenceG> no kidding..... an sd card would probably be possible to interface to..... save the old floppies
[03:42:21] <LawrenceG> i had an 8"drive for a while, but the controller never worked reliably
[03:45:08] <LawrenceG> support request for emc on imsaii?
[03:54:45] <mr_jimjames> Hello all. I have yet another few stg hal questions.
[03:55:36] <mr_jimjames> I have an issue with emc telling me to turn on the machine and take off estop. I believe i am not connected to the correct pins.
[03:56:19] <mr_jimjames> I believe the hal manual numbers them differently than the stg board manual
[03:57:01] <mr_jimjames> when i load the emc, i can trigger estop and hear my relays activate, but estop doesn't come off.
[04:18:37] <mr_jimjames> i'll come back tomarrow to pose the question.
[09:45:14] <Guest150> Hi, I am working on new gui interface for the linuxcnc , I need some help regarding the NML.
[11:37:26] <fragalot> archivist_ub: bid got cancelled \o/
[11:37:42] <archivist_ub> ok
[11:39:05] <archivist_ub> look in the logs one of the guys showed his MDF cnc router a few days ago
[11:43:50] <fragalot> any keywords?
[11:44:56] <archivist_ub> I commented on it and his nick began with a c iirc
[11:45:15] <fragalot> >.>
[11:45:26] <fragalot> in here, right?
[11:45:53] <archivist_ub> unfortunately I just shut down the other box where the pic was still in firefox
[11:45:57] <archivist_ub> yes
[11:46:44] <fragalot> k
[11:48:47] <fragalot> found it
[11:49:09] <fragalot> ah yes, i've considered making that one a while back
[11:49:18] <archivist_ub> reasonably robust iirc
[11:49:34] <fragalot> yep, and easilly made with only hand tools
[11:49:55] <fragalot> the guy that designed that made the whole thing in his bedroom..
[11:50:33] <archivist_ub> valid use of a bedroom
[11:50:39] <fragalot> lol yep
[11:51:12] <fragalot> * fragalot ponders wether to go for JGRO or buildyourcnc..
[11:51:26] <fragalot> well JGRO is more ajustable if it's off
[11:51:35] <fragalot> so i'll go for that one,.. might cost me a bit more, but meh
[11:58:37] <anonimasu_> :)
[12:03:38] <fragalot> mm
[12:04:00] <fragalot> 1/4-20 x 43.50 what's the 1/4-20 in metric? :p (lead screw)
[12:06:03] <anonimasu_> google is your friend -_-
[12:06:29] <fragalot> but IRC is quicker (slow pc)
[12:06:30] <fragalot> :p
[12:08:05] <DaViruz> 20 threads per inch
[12:08:13] <DaViruz> 25.4/20 gives you the pitch
[12:08:44] <DaViruz> (and 1/4" diameter = 6.35mm)
[12:08:59] <fragalot> ah
[12:09:04] <archivist_ub> use what you feel like and adjust the software to suit
[12:09:05] <fragalot> k, ty :)
[12:09:19] <fragalot> archivist_ub: yeah, just wanted to get an idea of the diameter of it
[12:09:33] <fragalot> going to use trapezoid threads
[12:09:55] <archivist_ub> 1/4" is a bit spindly for me
[12:10:55] <fragalot> i'll do 8mm
[12:11:49] <anonimasu_> :)
[12:11:54] <anonimasu_> *yawns*
[12:16:35] <fragalot> make that M12
[12:16:40] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ has a cad day
[12:16:54] <anonimasu_> it's like "DRAW IT NOW!"
[12:17:59] <archivist_ub> I just downloaded brlcad for another play see how far they have got
[12:18:00] <fragalot> lol
[12:20:57] <fragalot> does EMC have support for "anti-backlash" beeing handled by software? :p
[12:24:16] <archivist_ub> backlash is bad news for servo systems
[12:25:59] <fragalot> true, true
[12:27:04] <archivist_ub> as mine is stepper and has backlash I make sure I drive the correct direction
[12:28:05] <fragalot> yep, some software is capable of correcting for backlash tho
[12:28:44] <anonimasu_> backslash is shit for any system servo or stepper.
[12:28:57] <fragalot> mm, one of my sisters fish is swimming upside down and seems to be having trouble staying down :/
[12:29:14] <fragalot> must have gas
[12:29:15] <fragalot> :p
[12:31:02] <anonimasu_> hm.. 9 windows of alibre with different parts open -_-
[12:33:51] <fragalot> lol
[12:34:33] <fragalot> tbh, I dont like the schematics that alibre makes
[12:34:35] <jepler> fragalot: yes, the [AXIS_#]BACKLASH configuration item activates emc's backlash compensation. On my stepper machine this is fairly effective to remove about 0.0055 inches of backlash from the X and Y axes. but still, the less backlash actually in the machine the better.
[12:34:54] <fragalot> jepler: ofcourse, i was just wondering if it had it or not :)
[12:35:04] <anonimasu_> fragalot: what schematics?
[12:35:15] <anonimasu_> fragalot: are you talking about circuit boards?
[12:35:15] <fragalot> anonimasu_: if you design something in alibre, you can make schematics with it
[12:35:20] <fragalot> bleh
[12:35:25] <anonimasu_> oh, that kind..
[12:35:26] <fragalot> drawings
[12:35:31] <anonimasu_> Yep
[12:35:42] <fragalot> :p had my brain stuck in EE mode
[12:35:52] <anonimasu_> what dont you like?
[12:36:05] <anonimasu_> ofcourse alibre isnt solidworks.
[12:36:12] <anonimasu_> but for the price :)
[12:36:19] <fragalot> what it produces, it's missing vital things to make a good drawing, imho
[12:36:41] <anonimasu_> like what?
[12:36:49] <fragalot> autocad inventor does a better job, esp. as you can easilly ajust it in autocad later on
[12:37:04] <anonimasu_> heh.. nice..
[12:37:08] <anonimasu_> I hear catia is good too.
[12:37:19] <archivist_ub> ugh inventer is worse than etch-a-sketch
[12:37:21] <fragalot> never tried catia :/
[12:37:28] <anonimasu_> dont compare apples and pears..
[12:37:45] <fragalot> archivist_ub: xD it's just that you can edit it after in autocad, which is, imho, a very decent app
[12:38:11] <archivist_ub> after using Solidworks, you might not say that
[12:38:18] <anonimasu_> yep
[12:38:35] <anonimasu_> I'd like inventor or solidworks, but my budget isnt big enough :)
[12:38:35] <fragalot> i've been using autocad for nearly 7 years now, so my opinion is def. biased :p
[12:39:06] <anonimasu_> fragalot: well, I'm not too into 2d cad.. most of my stuff is like 3d stuff.. then make prodduction drawings in 2d
[12:39:09] <fragalot> I also mainly do it directly in 2D, but 3D helps you spot problems faster
[12:39:24] <anonimasu_> only downside is that you cant drive 3d off 2d in alibre like in solidworks.
[12:39:29] <archivist_ub> I tried early autocrap, could never get on with it, Solidworks was a revelation
[12:39:34] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[12:40:33] <anonimasu_> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=8134613
[12:40:34] <anonimasu_> is that right?
[12:41:08] <fragalot> don't see why it would be wrong?
[12:41:09] <jepler> to produce good 2d drawings from 3d models it really requires a lot of understanding about the object -- off and on I've been reading a book on mechanical drafting from the 40s and I think it would take quite a long time for me to learn the skills well
[12:41:29] <fragalot> jepler: it mainly requires good insight
[12:41:44] <anonimasu_> hm, usually what I do to make production drawings is that I start with a anchor.. like a flat line..
[12:41:46] <archivist_ub> yup
[12:41:49] <anonimasu_> then use that as reference for geometry
[12:41:58] <jepler> besides that, everyone has their own preferences about how certain things should be drawn; the program gets exponentially more complex compared to the number of options it gives the user
[12:42:07] <anonimasu_> and specify it up enough to reproduce the whole part off just a drawing
[12:42:22] <fragalot> jepler: exactly
[12:42:41] <fragalot> what matters in the end is if the drawing is good enough to get produced by somebody that hasn't ever heard of the object before
[12:42:50] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[12:43:00] <anonimasu_> that's the point.. :)
[12:43:10] <fragalot> :D
[12:43:24] <anonimasu_> I do 3d because of clearences like cylinders and stuff :)
[12:44:24] <archivist_ub> I like the gearing in Solidworks rotaing and testing a gearbox/clock becomes a lot easier
[12:45:06] <anonimasu_> inventor is $5195
[12:45:28] <fragalot> anonimasu_: more like $1k isn't it
[12:45:29] <anonimasu_> and 9166$ is what solidworks costs here
[12:45:46] <anonimasu_> no
[12:45:55] <fragalot> Autodesk® Inventor? Suite$1,095
[12:46:01] <anonimasu_> that's the yearly subscription.
[12:46:05] <fragalot> ah
[12:46:07] <anonimasu_> not the software
[12:46:10] <fragalot> whoops ^_^
[12:46:22] <anonimasu_> and solidowrks is about the same for mainentance
[12:46:52] <anonimasu_> :p
[12:46:56] <fragalot> this laptop is too low spec :'(
[12:47:08] <fragalot> maximizing a window pauzes music from playing for a while
[12:58:31] <anonimasu_> crap.
[12:58:34] <anonimasu_> ipod out of juice..
[12:58:42] <anonimasu_> and I was on a good streak of tracks.
[12:59:02] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub uses the PC for music
[12:59:07] <SWPadnos> no U@ for you!
[12:59:09] <SWPadnos> U2
[12:59:20] <anonimasu_> lol, I were listening to music instructor
[12:59:28] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[12:59:40] <SWPadnos> "All I Want Is You" is playing for me at the moment - great song
[12:59:43] <anonimasu_> funky breakdance-ish stuff :)
[12:59:58] <archivist_ub> hehe U2 is a battery size as well as a group name
[13:00:07] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:00:16] <SWPadnos> I'm going to make a band and call it LR3
[13:00:29] <archivist_ub> SR44
[13:00:34] <SWPadnos> CR123
[13:00:40] <archivist_ub> PP3
[13:00:48] <SWPadnos> I'm going to get breakfast now
[13:00:50] <SWPadnos> :)
[13:01:27] <archivist_ub> dinner and coffee here
[13:01:41] <SWPadnos> well, you're in the ewwww-kay
[13:01:56] <archivist_ub> mebe
[13:02:34] <SWPadnos> btopenworld sounds UK-ish to me :)
[13:02:48] <fragalot> and there we have it
[13:02:48] <archivist_ub> it is
[13:02:53] <fragalot> mplayer crashed, byebye music
[13:26:13] <anonimasu_> :)
[13:26:24] <anonimasu_> evil strikes back
[14:02:56] <fragalot> :o
[19:38:50] <cradek> toastyde1th: your website looks interesting but I can only load a page once in a great while. I have been trying yesterday and today.
[19:39:49] <anonimasu> what's the url?
[19:40:24] <cradek> http://toastydeath.5gbs.com
[19:41:13] <cradek> ** server can't find toastydeath.5gbs.com: SERVFAIL
[19:41:19] <cradek> looks like a dns problem
[19:42:08] <tomp> ditto, cant find
[19:42:27] <cradek> it loaded once for me, earlier today
[19:49:15] <tomp> MyHDL aka PyHDL looks cool
[20:38:13] <alex_joni> night all
[20:38:20] <skunkworks> night alex
[20:42:00] <OoBIGeye> night alex
[21:07:10] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/boardfinal4.PNG
[21:07:29] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/boardfinal4.PNG
[21:07:39] <jepler> skunkworks: what changed since 3?
[21:07:46] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schmfinal1.PNG
[21:08:20] <skunkworks> I added the option of putting a 10k in series with the comparator. (for a bit of protection)
[21:08:42] <skunkworks> now it is done.. ;)
[21:14:37] <jepler> you keep saying that
[21:14:50] <skunkworks> heh
[21:17:04] <toast_> okay another dumb linux question, what key combination in X disables the mouse
[21:17:26] <toast_> it's alt+something, and then suddenly my mouse disappears and all i can do is shift desktops and smash keys till it comes back
[21:18:22] <jepler> huh I don't know of one
[21:21:35] <toast__> whoops
[21:28:44] <toast__> i think it's beryl freaking out
[21:28:52] <toast__> when i reinstall this week i am sticking to fluxbox