#emc | Logs for 2008-08-05

[00:06:18] <robin_sz> so jmk ...
[00:06:34] <robin_sz> say I have some big 380V AC servos
[00:06:46] <robin_sz> much bigger than I need for the task in hand ...
[00:06:58] <robin_sz> and I'm too mean to buy a proper drive ...
[00:07:31] <robin_sz> will a VFD with a +10 0 -10 speed control input do a similar job
[00:07:44] <robin_sz> or am I missing something fundamental?
[00:07:45] <jmkasunich> probably not
[00:08:12] <jmkasunich> I've asked my self a similar question, because I have a 5KW servomotor that I've been thinking to use as a spindle motor
[00:08:24] <robin_sz> uh huh
[00:08:26] <jmkasunich> (for my lathe)
[00:08:36] <jmkasunich> and another 1kW that I thought of as a mill spindle
[00:08:41] <robin_sz> these are a bit bigger than that ...
[00:08:53] <robin_sz> 13kw I think
[00:08:57] <jmkasunich> I tried the 1kW with a V/Hz VFD, and it goes unstable and trips on overcurrent
[00:09:08] <robin_sz> ah
[00:09:15] <jmkasunich> V/Hz drives and permanent magnet motors don't play nice together
[00:09:15] <eric_U> I have a vfd that will drive a servomotor
[00:09:21] <jmkasunich> dunno about vector drives
[00:09:33] <eric_U> I though there was a line of Reliance that would do it?
[00:09:47] <robin_sz> i suppose I could juts hook one up to my 2,2kw vector drive and see
[00:09:59] <robin_sz> i dont need much performance
[00:10:02] <jmkasunich> I wouldn't be surprized if _some_ vfds will drive _some_ permanent magnet servomotors
[00:10:10] <eric_U> sure
[00:10:30] <eric_U> specialized devices
[00:10:32] <jmkasunich> but the particular (low-end) one I tried didn't
[00:10:38] <eric_U> most don't
[00:10:45] <robin_sz> hmm
[00:10:56] <robin_sz> eric_U, so recommendations for ones that do?
[00:11:05] <eric_U> tb woods
[00:11:11] <robin_sz> never heard
[00:11:16] <eric_U> and like I said, I think there are some reliance
[00:11:23] <robin_sz> k
[00:11:49] <eric_U> do your servomotors have resolvers?
[00:12:13] <robin_sz> probably
[00:12:15] <eric_U> makes it unlikely that anything will drive them
[00:12:23] <robin_sz> i could take them off
[00:12:31] <eric_U> not the problem:)
[00:12:52] <robin_sz> i have some 2kw ac drives
[00:13:09] <robin_sz> maybe I should just re ebay the motors
[00:13:27] <eric_U> usually the big ones don't sell too well
[00:13:33] <robin_sz> nss
[00:13:56] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PANASONIC-ADKF5OB5SD-AC-SERVO-DRIVE-UNIT_W0QQitemZ140225444930QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140225444930&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
[00:13:58] <robin_sz> looks nice
[00:14:03] <robin_sz> bit small though
[00:16:59] <robin_sz> * robin_sz cries
[00:17:05] <robin_sz> that worked well ... not.
[00:17:15] <robin_sz> just says "LI"
[00:17:24] <eric_U> * eric_U has pity on robin_sz
[00:17:34] <robin_sz> i suppose I have to type NUX by hand?
[00:17:45] <robin_sz> ah well
[00:18:02] <eric_U> that was on boot?
[00:18:06] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:18:14] <robin_sz> I rememebr this from very early linuxes
[00:18:17] <robin_sz> well,
[00:18:18] <eric_U> been a while since I have seen that
[00:18:21] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:18:32] <robin_sz> must be 5 years since i last had that
[00:18:40] <eric_U> thought that was a lilo trick
[00:18:47] <robin_sz> it is
[00:18:48] <anonimasu> yep it was
[00:19:08] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, if it says LI you've got something with lilo messed up
[00:19:17] <robin_sz> no, i havent
[00:19:21] <robin_sz> ubuntu has
[00:19:24] <anonimasu> *sigh*
[00:19:36] <robin_sz> i thought it used grub/
[00:19:37] <robin_sz> ?
[00:19:44] <eric_U> keyboarding error
[00:19:48] <anonimasu> are you installing grub over a old install?
[00:20:06] <robin_sz> there was an old dedrat on this disk, I would have hoped the partitioner had blown it to the weeds
[00:20:16] <robin_sz> im install ing ubuntu
[00:20:23] <anonimasu> then you still have lilo left on the MBR of the drive
[00:20:35] <anonimasu> fdisk /mbr will clear your boot record for you (if you have a dos floppy)
[00:20:41] <robin_sz> i dont
[00:20:46] <anonimasu> download one :)
[00:20:48] <robin_sz> and no floppy drive
[00:21:00] <robin_sz> i have the ubuntu live CD though
[00:21:50] <anonimasu> boot it and see if lilo comes with it
[00:22:07] <anonimasu> if so you can use /sbin/lilo -u /dev/hda <- or whatever hdd you boot off :)
[00:22:39] <rayh> I think you can also dd the mbr.
[00:22:52] <anonimasu> yeah that's also possible
[00:23:03] <robin_sz> ummm
[00:23:05] <anonimasu> but that'll probably take the partition table I think
[00:23:29] <rayh> Oh. Trying to keep some of it?
[00:23:43] <robin_sz> i just did the ubuntu thingm trying to install emc
[00:23:48] <anonimasu> http://linuxgazette.net/issue63/okopnik.html
[00:24:03] <anonimasu> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1
[00:24:38] <robin_sz> and then it will boot grub next time, right?
[00:24:47] <anonimasu> you'll have to reinstall linux.
[00:24:53] <anonimasu> it'll clear your partition table.
[00:25:00] <robin_sz> hmm
[00:25:06] <anonimasu> the way to save it is to use fdisk /mbr off dos..
[00:25:14] <anonimasu> or lilo -u
[00:25:16] <robin_sz> sledgehammer, nut
[00:25:30] <robin_sz> well dos is out as no floppy drive
[00:25:34] <anonimasu> sorry, I dont know of a better oslution to it
[00:25:37] <anonimasu> solution
[00:25:38] <robin_sz> k
[00:25:40] <robin_sz> that
[00:25:56] <anonimasu> or, you can fire up the partitioner..
[00:26:04] <anonimasu> and save your changes right after clearing your mbr..
[00:26:04] <robin_sz> so grub doest live in the MBR?
[00:26:45] <robin_sz> im still not sure why partitioning the entire disk and doing a fresh instal of ubuntu did not work
[00:26:53] <anonimasu> because that wont clear the mbr
[00:27:22] <robin_sz> debian seems to manage it
[00:27:39] <anonimasu> heh..
[00:27:49] <robin_sz> ah well .. rebooting the live thing
[00:28:01] <robin_sz> no
[00:28:07] <anonimasu> did you decide to use lilo ? with debian?
[00:28:07] <robin_sz> failing
[00:28:09] <anonimasu> or did you use grub
[00:28:11] <robin_sz> nope
[00:28:15] <robin_sz> grub
[00:28:17] <robin_sz> always
[00:28:23] <robin_sz> now the live wont boot
[00:28:27] <anonimasu> wtf.
[00:28:42] <robin_sz> its scanning the hard disk and having trouble
[00:29:06] <robin_sz> io error of device SR0
[00:29:18] <robin_sz> SQUASFS erroe
[00:29:22] <robin_sz> seems fucked
[00:29:32] <robin_sz> time for the big power switch
[00:31:23] <anonimasu> try booting once more
[00:33:05] <anonimasu> even if you get IO errors it should boot
[00:33:37] <robin_sz> seems to be having CDR trouble now
[00:33:45] <robin_sz> wierd, was fine
[00:34:14] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[00:34:35] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has had he's share with lilo a long time ago
[00:34:46] <anonimasu> slackware didnt take into consideration many things :p
[00:34:53] <robin_sz> so
[00:34:58] <robin_sz> boot into ubuntu live
[00:35:19] <robin_sz> run lilo -u if and only iff it has lilo installed
[00:35:23] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:35:28] <robin_sz> else
[00:35:31] <robin_sz> fire up partitioner
[00:35:36] <robin_sz> read partiton table
[00:35:36] <anonimasu> and if you do not have lilo run cfdisk
[00:35:55] <anonimasu> and do dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1
[00:36:15] <anonimasu> then press write in the partitioner
[00:36:27] <SWPadnos> Ubuntu doesn't have lkilo by default
[00:36:30] <SWPadnos> lilo
[00:36:32] <anonimasu> and reinstall grub(grub_???)
[00:36:37] <robin_sz> sigh
[00:36:48] <robin_sz> and just re-installjgn grub wont do it?
[00:36:52] <anonimasu> no
[00:36:59] <robin_sz> pos
[00:37:01] <SWPadnos> the default install for Ubuntu will resize existing partitions - it tries to play nice with what's there already
[00:37:02] <robin_sz> ah well
[00:37:08] <SWPadnos> (I think)
[00:37:12] <anonimasu> yep.. lilo is notorious for messing up
[00:37:25] <robin_sz> err, it said use entire disk
[00:37:27] <anonimasu> robin_sz: it might kill what's on your drive though
[00:37:38] <robin_sz> i dont care about tthe drive
[00:37:44] <anonimasu> but as it wont boot anyway :p worst thing is that you have to reinstall.
[00:37:50] <robin_sz> actually, the live thing hasnt managed to boot yet
[00:37:50] <SWPadnos> hmmm. try doing manual partitioning instead of automatic
[00:37:57] <SWPadnos> then how did you install?
[00:38:03] <robin_sz> from CD
[00:38:07] <SWPadnos> from what CD?
[00:38:08] <robin_sz> but that was 10 minutes ago
[00:38:12] <robin_sz> emc live thing
[00:38:16] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: he installed the livecd but it left remains off lilo from a previous install
[00:38:32] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: stuck at boot with "LI"
[00:38:37] <SWPadnos> wait - robin just said that the liveCD has never booted, but he also said that he installed from it
[00:38:38] <jmkasunich> did you check the md5sum of the CD? I've had terrible luck with CDs lately - have to burn slowly
[00:39:03] <robin_sz> it booted and did the install without any trouble
[00:39:09] <robin_sz> 110 minutes agio anyway
[00:39:11] <robin_sz> 10
[00:39:18] <SWPadnos> then what the hell are you talking about? :)
[00:39:30] <SWPadnos> when you say "the live thing hasn't managed to boot yet"
[00:39:40] <jmkasunich> go into the bios and tell it to boot from the CD, not the hard disk
[00:39:40] <robin_sz> it did first time around
[00:39:43] <SWPadnos> (the live thing is the CD, otherwise it's the "installed thing" :) )
[00:39:44] <robin_sz> then i installed to disk
[00:39:50] <anonimasu> the reader's lazy :p
[00:39:52] <jmkasunich> boot from the CD in live mode, blow away the MBR, then do the install
[00:39:56] <robin_sz> thethen it would not boot off disk
[00:40:10] <SWPadnos> how old is this PC?
[00:40:14] <robin_sz> now it wont boot the lve cd to try and fix the mess it made of the install
[00:40:19] <robin_sz> err, 4 years
[00:40:24] <anonimasu> robin_sz: it might be alot easier to just clear the mbr and reinstall. :P
[00:40:34] <SWPadnos> ok, is there a key you can hit that will let you select which to boot from?
[00:40:42] <robin_sz> sure
[00:40:49] <SWPadnos> so press that and select CD ;)
[00:40:49] <anonimasu> * anonimasu goes to bed
[00:40:54] <anonimasu> robin_sz: let me know how that works out
[00:41:11] <robin_sz> its trying to boot from CD, but seems incapable of reading the device now ...
[00:41:20] <robin_sz> ash well
[00:41:31] <robin_sz> probably better go to bed as well
[00:41:43] <robin_sz> too hard basket
[00:41:51] <SWPadnos> heh - night night. maybe you'll get it in the morning
[00:42:06] <SWPadnos> but it sounds like a BIOS problem combined with some weirdness fromthe old install
[00:42:17] <robin_sz> nope, not bios
[00:42:20] <anonimasu> or it might be the reader.
[00:42:28] <SWPadnos> yeah, could be the CDRom
[00:42:29] <robin_sz> i think the cd drive musty have got warm
[00:42:33] <robin_sz> yep
[00:42:35] <anonimasu> they die alot
[00:42:41] <robin_sz> seems so
[00:42:41] <SWPadnos> you can boot some other PC with the CD and do the media check
[00:42:47] <anonimasu> especially if they are cd recorders
[00:42:54] <robin_sz> i only have my laptop
[00:42:56] <anonimasu> and nec. :p
[00:43:06] <SWPadnos> the one in this PC is so great that it crashes the PC if I try to burn a disc
[00:43:07] <robin_sz> after the mess it just made, not wanting to risk that
[00:43:18] <anonimasu> lol
[00:43:22] <SWPadnos> don't install, silly. just run the media check from the boot menu
[00:43:34] <robin_sz> ummm, is that safe?
[00:43:37] <anonimasu> yes
[00:43:43] <robin_sz> i really dont want to lose the laptop
[00:44:02] <anonimasu> it'll check the cd.
[00:44:05] <anonimasu> nothing more
[00:44:07] <SWPadnos> yes, unless the other CDRom is so bad that the media check code is mixed in with the fdisk code somehow
[00:44:29] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: that would be destiny if i thappened.
[00:44:33] <anonimasu> err happened
[00:44:35] <SWPadnos> yes, I think it would
[00:44:42] <SWPadnos> be3
[00:44:45] <SWPadnos> -3
[00:44:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu remembers redhat having a "kill" button in the paritioner.
[00:45:06] <anonimasu> that was a cool move, zap.. all drives empty
[00:45:12] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:45:14] <robin_sz> not would it not be possible to use apt-get to install the emc packages on a debian testing?
[00:45:14] <anonimasu> no partitions no nothing
[00:45:23] <robin_sz> save all this ubuntu stuff?
[00:45:51] <anonimasu> robin_sz: just clear the lilo.. and reinstall..
[00:46:09] <robin_sz> sounds simple
[00:46:23] <anonimasu> it's very simple
[00:46:29] <anonimasu> though you have bad luck
[00:46:31] <anonimasu> :)
[00:46:36] <anonimasu> robin_sz: no, they arent made to work with debian(no dependecies)
[00:47:12] <robin_sz> so .. tell me again .. i have this laptop and the CD ...
[00:47:22] <anonimasu> you stick it into the drive
[00:47:32] <robin_sz> and press "instal inside windows" ?
[00:47:36] <anonimasu> no
[00:47:39] <anonimasu> you press check media
[00:47:47] <robin_sz> no such button
[00:47:52] <anonimasu> when your system is trying to boot from the cd
[00:48:10] <robin_sz> i have "full install", "install inside windows" and "leanr more" ..
[00:48:14] <jmkasunich> if you see a GUI you have gone too far
[00:48:24] <anonimasu> you need to boot off the cd like right from the start..
[00:48:29] <robin_sz> oh boot ..
[00:48:33] <jmkasunich> there is a text mode menu that may only appear for a few seconds early in boot
[00:48:38] <anonimasu> what you are looking at now is the ubuntu windows installer thing
[00:48:43] <robin_sz> that will have to wait for another day then
[00:48:58] <anonimasu> just try letting the drive cool :)
[00:49:02] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:49:05] <anonimasu> for the other comp..
[00:49:06] <jmkasunich> smart move I think - goodnight robin
[00:49:27] <robin_sz> i dont htink I can do the check media thing on the other machine anyway
[00:49:38] <robin_sz> because the keyboard is not recognised at that point
[00:50:33] <anonimasu> no bios support for usb keyboards?
[00:50:39] <robin_sz> yes there is
[00:50:45] <anonimasu> then that should be working
[00:50:58] <robin_sz> but the ubuntu installer does not recognise it
[00:51:06] <robin_sz> its fine once the desktop boots
[00:51:26] <anonimasu> you arent in the installer at that point so it should be fine
[00:51:34] <robin_sz> well, the text thing
[00:51:37] <robin_sz> with language selection
[00:51:43] <robin_sz> that doesnt recongise it
[00:52:25] <anonimasu> hmm.. do you have a enable legacy something about usb in your bios?
[00:52:59] <robin_sz> dunno, the bios seems to see it ok, pressing F2 works to do the bios setup, and ctl-alt-del is still active
[00:53:05] <anonimasu> enable "usb legacy support"
[00:53:10] <anonimasu> in your bios
[00:53:10] <robin_sz> i'll look for the legacty thing
[00:53:18] <anonimasu> that'll make it work without drivers :)
[00:53:57] <anonimasu> * anonimasu goes to bed
[00:54:29] <anonimasu> night
[00:54:30] <anonimasu> :)
[00:54:55] <anonimasu> the trouble with debian is that the realtime kernel is hard to set up
[01:20:56] <robin_sz> ok, dd thing done .. trying an install
[01:33:15] <jmkasunich> I thought you went to sleep?
[01:34:36] <robin_sz> nah, that was anonimasu
[01:35:05] <robin_sz> strike while the irons hot
[02:47:47] <AndyTx> hello allo
[02:49:20] <AndyTx> Do any of yall happen to use keling 4030 drivers with emc2? I was wondering if I could pick your brain for a second...
[02:50:20] <cradek> are those step drivers?
[02:51:21] <AndyTx> yes.
[02:52:09] <cradek> I have not heard of them, sorry
[02:52:11] <jmkasunich> what is the question? we might be able to answer, even if we don't use them
[02:52:30] <AndyTx> I'm trying to figure out the correct step length, space, direction setup etc... values to put into the steptimingcalculator
[02:52:41] <jmkasunich> is there an online manual?
[02:52:51] <AndyTx> not much of one
[02:53:03] <AndyTx> all it has is a little bit of wiring info
[02:53:06] <jmkasunich> URL?
[02:53:11] <AndyTx> standby
[02:53:36] <jmkasunich> so what you're saying is that it's probably gonna be trial and error, and you were hoping to find someone who has already made the errors.... ;-)
[02:54:01] <AndyTx> http://www.kelinginc.net/KL-4030.doc
[02:54:04] <AndyTx> heh, exactly
[02:54:53] <jmkasunich> you're right, thats a lousy manual
[02:55:17] <cradek> word document != manual
[02:55:25] <jmkasunich> well, that too
[02:55:41] <AndyTx> lol, I don't really mind the format... so long as it has some actual info in it!
[02:55:42] <cradek> wow, it's worse than I thought possible
[02:55:51] <jepler> 3: A+,A-
[02:55:55] <jepler> actually I think it's more of a D or a D-
[02:56:11] <jmkasunich> yeah, how do you hook both ends of the A winding to the same terminal?
[02:56:34] <AndyTx> eh, needless to say, I didn't go by that when I wired this thing together
[02:59:27] <jmkasunich> I'd start with the gecko timings and see what happens
[02:59:37] <AndyTx> I guess I'll shoot keling an email. cross your fingers tho. I've had a really difficult time understanding what they write
[03:00:17] <AndyTx> yeah, trial and error until then. Thanks anyways guys.
[03:01:02] <jepler> looks like you're about the third to ask about this
[03:01:13] <jepler> http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-07-23.txt http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/4525 are two others
[03:01:18] <jepler> I don't find any answers though
[03:02:00] <cradek> until you know better, look through the various default timings and pick the longest ones. it'll probably be fine.
[03:02:35] <AndyTx> good idea, thanks.
[03:02:45] <jmkasunich> that's kind of why I suggested gecko - they may not be the longest, but they are up there
[03:03:20] <jepler> on the page http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriver.html several of their other stepper drivers mention a 400kHz maximum pulse frequency. If that applies to the 4030, then you could be sure that entering 2500ns for step length and step space will be OK; those numbers are also both small enough to not impact your max step rate much
[03:03:34] <jepler> for direction setup and hold you can also enter big numbers without compromising maximum step rate
[03:04:45] <jepler> good luck and good night
[03:04:51] <AndyTx> thanks
[03:05:57] <AndyTx> should I try 2500 across the board or just for the step?
[03:09:34] <eric_U> gecko $30 drive turned out to cost $75
[03:11:49] <eric_U> nice package though: http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14469
[03:35:08] <AndyTx> thanks for the help. night
[03:47:27] <cradek> anyone need a 6" 2-3/16 - 8 faceplate?
[03:48:49] <jmkasunich> what does that fit?
[03:48:57] <jmkasunich> (no, I don't need it, just curious)
[03:49:04] <cradek> not mine
[03:49:12] <jmkasunich> heh, I knew that
[03:49:14] <cradek> mine is 2-3/16 - 10
[03:49:17] <cradek> unfortunately
[03:49:24] <cradek> it's a nice faceplate
[03:49:36] <jmkasunich> the hardinge? I thought they used an odd tapered slotting latching thing instead of a thread
[03:49:38] <cradek> to be honest I have no idea what it fits. maybe nothing. google doesn't seem to know either.
[03:49:49] <cradek> this one's got a nice normal thread and shoulder
[03:50:37] <cradek> the body of the faceplate is a good 3/4" thick
[04:47:55] <SkinnYPup> cradek: This may or may not be useful http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hardinge-Lathe/
[05:12:16] <cradek> SkinnYPup: thanks
[07:40:59] <micges> good morning
[07:41:05] <seb_kuzminsky> hi micges
[08:47:31] <robin_sz> grrr. so did the dd thing to kill the mbr, redid the Ubuntu install from scratch, told it to use entire disk, sill get "LI" at boot :(
[08:51:01] <archivist_ub> use a small boot partition
[08:51:31] <archivist_ub> specially if an old mother board
[08:52:43] <robin_sz> ummm
[08:52:58] <robin_sz> i dont think thats an option the Ubuntu installer offered me
[08:53:31] <robin_sz> and its not an old mb, its a 1ghz P111
[08:53:39] <robin_sz> not THAT old
[08:54:00] <archivist_emc> its what I did to the 80 gig here set to 8 gig partition
[08:54:03] <archivist_emc> /dev/hda1 8001272 4574852 3019980 61% /
[08:54:35] <archivist_emc> this is an old 800 meg Athlon box
[08:55:08] <archivist_emc> I used the manual partition option
[08:55:43] <archivist_emc> this being the 606 ubuntu
[08:56:37] <robin_sz> its an old 15gb disk, not exactly huge
[08:56:50] <archivist_emc> that should be ok
[08:57:13] <archivist_emc> 30gig is the normal cut off point
[08:57:41] <robin_sz> and I did dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 ... to zap the mbr
[08:57:56] <robin_sz> then ran the install to disk ...
[08:58:55] <archivist_emc> when I did mine I had to google to find reasons for LI stop
[08:59:31] <robin_sz> sigh
[09:00:17] <robin_sz> #ubuntu seems useless, no one answers
[09:02:02] <archivist_emc> I do like that I can IRC while 4 axis machining
[09:03:33] <robin_sz> hee hee
[09:03:49] <robin_sz> i want to play with my mesa cards :)
[09:04:39] <archivist_emc> I want some of those one day
[09:05:11] <robin_sz> how hard will it be to use the ubuntu EMC packages with debian testing/unstable?
[09:05:39] <archivist_emc> dunno its the kernel swap!
[09:06:09] <archivist_emc> and anyway ubuntu and debian are almost the same
[09:06:30] <robin_sz> but the debain installer works
[09:06:57] <robin_sz> not getting anyhere with this mac/ubuntu thing
[09:08:26] <robin_sz> i suspect whats going wrong is the bit where ubuntu install says "grub install searching for other operating systems"
[09:09:45] <robin_sz> its trying to "play nicely" with other installs it *thinks* are on the disk, and I just want to zap the lot
[09:10:07] <archivist_emc> format the disk
[09:16:47] <archivist_ub> do we have enough Brits for the euro emc fest to be over here :)
[10:23:07] <pjm_> archivist a euro EMC fest would be good
[10:23:32] <archivist_ub> english even better :)
[10:23:49] <archivist_ub> well for me
[10:24:51] <archivist_ub> or I get a better job then it can be anywhere
[10:27:21] <archivist_emc> this thing is about light enough to cart to a fest
[10:35:53] <pjm_> i've almost finished my CNC, just building the table for it to sit on
[10:36:12] <pjm_> the whole thing will weigh about 3 hundredweight
[10:37:31] <archivist_ub> I want to add another axis next to mine
[10:38:05] <archivist_ub> I wonder if it will ever be finished
[10:40:49] <archivist_ub> adding gear hobbing will be the real challenge
[14:13:29] <Guest551> Guest551 is now known as skunkworks
[16:08:59] <dmwaters_> {global notice} Good day all, it looks like one of our sponsors had some routing problems. Thank you all for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
[16:12:48] <owad> Is there open-source CAM software that anybody would recommend, for use with EMC?
[16:16:35] <cradek> this looks promising but I haven't tried it yet. Someone recently pointed it out. http://www.christian-kohloeffel.homepage.t-online.de/dxf2gocde.html
[16:18:14] <owad> thank you
[16:18:29] <owad> seems there's very little cam that's free
[16:18:37] <cradek> there's a page on our wiki with a huge list of things to try
[16:19:58] <owad> thanks
[16:20:26] <owad> What do you use, personally?
[16:21:07] <cradek> I use 'realize' for some stuff. for other stuff, I write the gcode by hand
[16:21:36] <cradek> it's nice to have something that figures out arcs for you. otherwise, gcode is pretty easy to write.
[16:22:33] <archivist_ub> I have a prog to write gcode for gear cutting and for worms the code is in the gcode
[16:24:09] <cradek> yeah emc2's gcode can do a lot...
[16:24:50] <archivist_ub> I need another axis to make full use of it though
[16:25:34] <archivist_ub> got to save up the pennies for more bitz
[16:26:17] <toast> there are good reviews of stuff like bobcam
[16:26:17] <owad> What sort of mill do you have, archivist?
[16:26:46] <toast> i don't know what the entry/mid level cam stuff costs though, some folks said it was stomachable
[16:26:49] <archivist_ub> owad, 4 axis homebrew from
[16:27:33] <cradek> toast: do you remember where did you see a good bobcam review? I've seen the opposite
[16:27:33] <archivist_ub> scrap, an old lathe and a toolmakers setting XY thingy
[16:28:11] <toast> cradek: no, actually - i've heard that it's got a steep learning curve
[16:28:16] <owad> fancy, archivist. What would a fifth axis allow you to do?
[16:28:22] <toast> i just remember someone talking about it and saying they found it okay and cheap
[16:28:31] <toast> that could be totally wrong, i've never used it - just mastercam
[16:28:57] <archivist_ub> owad, It would tilt the a axis to the helix angle
[16:30:35] <archivist_ub> Im currently cutting a worm I would dread on a lathe
[16:32:15] <archivist_emc> hmm sounds changing...at end of cut
[16:32:41] <owad> Any opinions on the academic edition of Pro/E Wildfire 3.0?
[16:37:44] <toast> i love pro/e
[16:37:46] <toast> but
[16:37:48] <toast> it's ridiculous
[16:38:19] <toast> the learning curve is tremendously steep, and you won't really know how to do anything until you know how to do everything
[16:38:39] <owad> I think I'll save that for later, then. :-)
[16:38:52] <toast> solidworks is what I use at work/home mostly
[16:39:17] <archivist_ub> I havnt played with it, I have Solidworks
[16:39:38] <toast> it's easy to learn and I've never run into a difficulty, when doing home projects, that caused me to start up pro/e
[16:39:42] <owad> hmm... Solidworks is smart and has a 24-month limit on their academic sw
[16:39:55] <toast> Autodesk inventor is worthless
[16:40:09] <toast> i couldn't figure out Catia, and i've never tried NX
[16:40:35] <owad> Solidworks has CAM built in?
[16:40:43] <toast> oh, cam
[16:40:50] <toast> no, but there's programs that plug in
[16:40:55] <archivist_ub> tried inventor, I agree rubbish
[16:41:11] <toast> i don't know if they have a "student" version
[16:41:46] <toast> may i ask what you're doing that requires CAM over g-code?
[16:42:03] <toast> pcb stuff or something?
[16:42:08] <owad> I want to go from CAD files to G-code. I thought that required CAM software.
[16:42:16] <owad> (and I do want to do pcb's, also)
[16:42:38] <toast> if they're complicated it requires CAM
[16:43:12] <toast> otherwise, hands and eyeballs work fine
[16:43:25] <owad> you mean write it by hand?
[16:43:28] <toast> yeh
[16:44:14] <toast> a lot of the dudes in here do PCB stuff and have projects with crazy geometry, so i understand the need for cam
[16:44:25] <toast> but if you're just popping some holes in stuff and general milling
[16:44:43] <toast> * toast shrug
[16:45:03] <owad> good points
[16:46:40] <toast> i kind of feel some people let CAM get in the way of making parts sometimes
[16:46:52] <toast> but whutevs
[16:47:14] <owad> toast, is there a source you'd recommend for learning gcode?
[16:47:30] <owad> (No, I haven't checked the wiki yet :)
[16:47:37] <toast> there IS some stuff in the wiki
[16:47:48] <toast> but I learned by downloading the Haas programmer's reference
[16:47:49] <archivist_emc> I basicly only used the EMC manual for learning gcode
[16:47:57] <toast> but not all the stuff in the haas manual applies to emc
[16:48:18] <toast> i would recommend just keeping the wiki open to EMC, and actually make parts
[16:48:36] <toast> you can't learn g-code by just reading, you have to actually try to make something
[16:48:51] <toast> and just look up the codes for stuff you don't know how to do.
[16:49:13] <owad> will emc let me enter gcodes one at a time, or do I need a pre-written program?
[16:49:22] <archivist_emc> either
[16:49:33] <toast> my personal preference is to write a program one tool at a time
[16:51:07] <toast> write the code for that one tool
[16:51:11] <toast> touch the tool off
[16:51:18] <toast> and then let it run, one line at a time
[16:51:21] <toast> nice and slow
[16:51:35] <archivist_emc> im only doing one op most of the time, ie cut gear teeth or worm helix, rest of the job is on standard hand machines
[16:52:48] <toast> haha i guess the "one tool at a time" thing doesn't make sense without a toolchanger
[16:52:51] <toast> nevermind
[16:53:48] <archivist_emc> toolchange and knowing where I am is the hard part
[16:53:54] <toast> archivist_emc: ?
[16:54:07] <owad> This is my mill: http://tinyurl.com/5ahdnm
[16:54:21] <owad> well, "router", I suppose
[16:54:27] <archivist_emc> gear cutters are a funny shape for cycloidal
[16:56:34] <archivist_emc> I need the center line of the cutter and a en indeterminate depth (stop and measure adjust cycle again)
[16:57:17] <toast> hey cool owad, it looks like you've got a pretty good envelope on that machine
[16:58:04] <archivist_emc> looks stronger than some of the MDF ive seen
[16:58:35] <toast> srs
[16:59:07] <owad> thanks. I'm really curious to see what sort of precision I'll get with it.
[16:59:23] <owad> srs?
[16:59:37] <toast> "serious"
[16:59:39] <toast> or "seriously"
[17:00:03] <owad> Next project, once I have a better handle on all of this, is retrofitting this: http://tinyurl.com/5dwcvt
[17:00:54] <toast> cool
[17:01:00] <toast> does it have a control on it already?
[17:01:17] <toast> or did you by the iron sans brains
[17:01:29] <owad> it has a vickers acramatic 2100, but it's faulty, and very proprietary
[17:01:36] <toast> faulty how
[17:02:09] <tomp> "DXF2GCODE was soll den das sein?" like monty python cops "now now whats all this then?"
[17:02:42] <owad> one of their proprietary boards is flakey, and as I was experimenting with that, I began having trouble with the hd
[17:03:44] <toast> sucks
[17:03:54] <owad> and the screen is starting to fail, which is no big deal, but it seems any repair to this thing costs about $1,000, which is pricey to maintain
[17:04:14] <owad> and you can't upgrade the RAM or HD, or anything like that, w/out paying several hundred for a code to enable it.
[17:04:32] <toast> yeah, that's industry standard
[17:05:07] <toast> i have never heard of that control, but 1k for a board sounds steep
[17:05:32] <toast> but then all our machines are fanuc, and used fanuc parts are cheap and plentiful
[17:05:48] <toast> fleabay etc
[17:06:41] <tomp> benchman, lot of them sold to make electrodes, graphite dust may seem dirty, but very inert. keep it outta your lungs and the machine will clean up nice.
[17:07:00] <archivist_ub> owad, once you have the router working that vmc will be a piece of cake
[17:07:32] <owad> this one was used by a military contractor to make prototypes
[17:09:47] <toast> what spindle taper
[17:09:49] <toast> if you know
[17:09:55] <toast> cat 30?
[17:11:59] <owad> I don't have it in my notes. I can tell you it's not R8 or Morse. :-)
[17:12:03] <owad> it has a tool changer
[17:12:51] <toast> then i will guess either cat-30 or 40 if it's a machine built for a US contractor
[17:13:55] <owad> it takes er20 collets
[17:14:13] <toast> the tools do, or the spindle directly
[17:14:21] <owad> the tools do
[17:15:08] <owad> put that way, I guess that's not all that relevant :-)
[17:15:24] <toast> lol
[17:15:57] <toast> cat-30 is about the same form factor as a R8 collet, and cat-40 is substantially larger than an r8 collet
[17:16:08] <owad> cat 30, then
[17:16:33] <toast> cool
[17:16:48] <archivist_ub> 1.75" fat end of taper for 40
[17:16:55] <owad> I see there's two acramatic boards on eBay, for next to nothing. Now you guys have me second-guessing my plans.
[17:17:18] <toast> personally, i would repair the control if it's a 80's or 90's era control with a CRT
[17:17:36] <owad> yes - 90's
[17:18:39] <owad> this system: www
[17:18:44] <owad> http://www.cinmac.com/Parts/Acramatic%202100.jpg
[17:18:45] <owad> (sorry)
[17:19:47] <toast> yeah, i'd fix it
[17:19:49] <toast> if i were you
[17:19:59] <toast> but the other guys probably feel differently
[17:20:31] <owad> I go to the emc IRC channel, and the people try to talk me into using a propriety system! :-D
[17:20:50] <toast> haha that's why i said the other guys probably feel differently, i don't use emc
[17:20:55] <toast> i am just a machiney-type guy
[17:21:14] <toast> in fact i'm sitting at work right now, babysitting a HMC
[17:21:29] <owad> the system came with SpectraCAD and SpectraCAM, but the dongle was missing. :-/
[17:21:31] <archivist_ub> owad, Ive never used anything but emc for cnc
[17:22:34] <toast> that's a bummer re: dongle
[17:24:24] <toast> i am kind of biased, obviously, but I feel emc has some UI issues that would cause me to spend 300 bucks on fixing a control
[17:24:32] <toast> rather than swapping it out
[17:25:09] <owad> ah, I found the error I was getting on the Acramatic: ""Output / Fuse Failure in APC Rack 0""
[17:25:39] <owad> and from that, we eventually ascertained that one of the boards was bad (hopefully I wrote down which one)
[17:25:52] <toast> lol, hopefully
[17:25:58] <owad> but there's also a board in there by light machines, which had a burnt up diode on it
[17:26:00] <owad> which I replaced
[17:26:13] <owad> but I'm not good enough with analog circuits to really test much in that regard
[17:26:33] <owad> (the light machines board is all analog, with generic components)
[17:27:07] <toast> haha, i don't know anything about that either
[17:27:18] <toast> brb
[17:27:59] <owad> I really like the pendant, though.
[17:41:06] <toast> k
[17:41:14] <toast> yeah, pendants are cool
[17:43:06] <owad> Does "Touch Off" mean setting the current location to 0,0,0?
[17:43:47] <toast> depends on the context, but "touch off" usually means to set the Z reference of a tool
[17:44:03] <toast> it can mean to set work zero, but that's not common.
[17:44:23] <owad> 7. Set the proper offsets for each axis by jogging and using the “Touch Off” button.
[17:45:00] <toast> is that something for emc or for the other control?
[17:45:10] <owad> that's from the emc manual
[17:45:38] <toast> in that case, yes, it means set 0,0,0
[17:46:50] <owad> thanks. I'm reading through the manual, trying to learn enough so I can cut something this afternoon
[17:46:56] <toast> np =)
[17:47:26] <owad> I figure I'll start with a line, and maybe even do a curve, if I get adventerous. :-D
[17:47:31] <toast> hahaha
[17:47:39] <toast> THE WORLD IS YOUR OYSTER
[17:47:43] <archivist_ub> the standard install comes with some demo gcode
[17:48:31] <owad> really? I didn't see any? (powering up the emc syste to check…)
[17:48:50] <owad> I have the emc logo, but there was a note saying that wasn't intended for actually cutting
[17:49:50] <archivist_emc> /usr/share/emc/ncfiles/
[17:51:13] <owad> yes there is!
[17:51:21] <archivist_emc> I think plenty have a go at making the axis logo (I didnt as my travels are very small)
[17:51:43] <owad> I found a penguin
[17:52:27] <archivist_emc> I never made a penguin but the machine went through the motions a few times for testing
[17:53:15] <owad> I ran through the emc logo a few days ago, and it seemed to go ok (meaning it didn't crash or anything), but I could tell if it was moving in the right directions or right distances, or anything like that
[18:06:16] <toast> we have a machine that can run the logo!
[18:06:26] <toast> http://toastydeath.5gbs.com/images/stories/20080802/lathetour/DSC_4102-45.JPG
[18:07:33] <owad> Is that you?
[18:07:42] <toast> nah, that's soc
[18:07:45] <toast> co-worker
[18:07:51] <toast> he's playing sudoku.
[18:07:56] <owad> haha
[18:08:37] <owad> on paper or, with the machine?
[18:08:54] <toast> haha, on paper
[18:09:15] <toast> the machine is making lathe carriages
[18:09:36] <owad> You make lathes?
[18:09:42] <toast> no, just the carriages
[18:09:46] <toast> and also the rails
[18:09:52] <toast> we make air bearings
[18:10:04] <owad> for a brand I'd know?
[18:10:20] <toast> nope, the average lathe doesn't use air bearings
[18:10:37] <toast> our customers for that particular carriage are mostly contact lens and optics lathes
[18:11:16] <toast> i don't know if anyone has ever tried using that carriage for like, heavy machining
[18:52:43] <robin> he hee hee .. installed just fine :)
[18:53:42] <archivist_ub> what was it
[18:54:28] <robin> eeeeerrrr
[18:54:29] <robin> well
[18:54:45] <robin> doing the live thing then install failed so many different ways
[18:55:01] <robin> eventually. .. I got the installer to recognise the kb ...
[18:55:15] <robin> so I could do a plain old install direct from CD
[18:55:52] <robin> just need to run a few latency tests now ...
[19:03:31] <robin> 14us, not too bad
[19:03:46] <robin> that was max max, avg is 2us
[19:04:04] <archivist_ub> better than mine
[19:05:01] <robin> plain old dimension desktop ...
[19:05:08] <robin> 1ghz P3
[19:05:26] <robin> paid 50 quid for it I think
[19:05:42] <archivist_ub> this is a cheapo display card in an 800 meg athlon
[19:05:57] <robin> i got a server last week ...
[19:06:00] <robin> dell 2650?
[19:06:22] <robin> dual xeon, 4gb ram, RAID enabled, 2 x 36gb 10K U320 drives ...
[19:06:26] <robin> dula PSU ..
[19:06:38] <robin> £39
[19:06:43] <robin> err, 80 dollars to you
[19:07:03] <archivist_ub> I got a dual xeon off epay, too noisy to live near!!!
[19:07:08] <robin> yeah
[19:07:12] <robin> this is in the rack at work now
[19:07:33] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub is only up the road in £ land as well
[19:07:41] <robin> ah yes
[19:07:49] <archivist_ub> or real money land
[19:07:55] <robin> w00t! .. finds the Mes M5i20 card too
[19:08:39] <robin> suppose I better figure out how to hook it up to this slide and encoder then ...
[19:09:00] <archivist_ub> wire!
[19:09:07] <robin> over rated
[19:09:32] <archivist_ub> I have a nice ratsnest
[19:11:22] <robin> best way
[19:11:44] <robin> hmm did paul corners alternative emc1 effort keep going?
[19:11:51] <robin> had forgotten about him
[19:11:55] <archivist_ub> dunno
[19:12:15] <archivist_ub> think I saw a rant a few months back
[19:12:38] <robin> the front end of this seems nice, .. choose a template, copy the sample setup to home dir, makes a shortcut ..
[19:13:21] <robin> it used to be fun to try and work out which one of the irc users was him
[19:13:48] <robin> ah well
[19:14:37] <robin> right // soldering iron, slide, dc servo amp ...
[19:14:41] <robin> cant go wrong
[19:16:09] <archivist_ub> * archivist_ub rings the fire brigade just in case
[19:18:21] <skunkworks> he has tuxcnc. Hi Paul! :)
[19:20:09] <jepler_> robin: http://www.tuxcnc.org/ but there's not much actual info about the development of tuxcnc
[19:20:34] <jepler_> there are occasional check-ins to the project http://cia.vc/stats/project/tuxcnc
[19:20:47] <jepler_> and there is a mailing list but it is private and my application to be a member was either rejected or is in limbo
[19:20:50] <jepler_> (he hates me)
[19:21:18] <jepler_> I'm not actually sure how tuxcnc relates to the old emc1 to be honest
[19:22:36] <toast> who is this?
[19:22:37] <skunkworks> From listening to paul... It must be perfect.
[19:22:51] <skunkworks> (on how bad emc2 is)
[19:22:58] <jepler_> toast: paul corner aka paul_c who several years ago was one of the developers of emc1
[19:23:03] <archivist_ub> heh last news is emc2.2 !
[19:23:08] <toast> lol
[19:24:23] <toast> is this paul a crazy person
[19:27:33] <jepler_> toast: there were a series of conflicts -- some technical, some personal -- and as a result paul chose to stop contributing to the emc2 project
[19:34:14] <toast> oh
[19:34:17] <toast> that is less exciting
[19:40:18] <alex_joni> toast: before that he was really a valuable push forward for the project
[19:41:49] <skunkworks> He created the BDI - brain dead install for emc1. This made it pretty easy to install on the computer
[19:41:53] <skunkworks> emc that is
[19:42:09] <alex_joni> yeah, it was a nightmare to get emc going before that :)
[19:45:24] <skunkworks> Hi alex
[20:05:37] <alex_joni> hi samco
[20:23:59] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:25:35] <tomp> gnite
[20:26:53] <tomp> jepler_: the guy who was mentioned this morning has some python b-spline & bi-arc stuff http://www.christian-kohloeffel.homepage.t-online.de/python.html
[20:28:38] <tomp> his 'scheme fro interpolating NURBS curves on NC machines' is interesting http://www.cadanda.com/CAD_4_1-4__04.PDF
[22:08:51] <christel> [Global Notice] Hiya all! In about 10 minutes there will be some slight disturbance to services as we take them down for a quick upgrade! This should be quick and primarily painfree. Thank you for using freenode and have a good evening!
[23:20:47] <mr_jimjames> Hello all
[23:20:56] <mr_jimjames> i was on the other night with a question.
[23:21:03] <mr_jimjames> the question is...
[23:22:05] <mr_jimjames> from a default install of umbutu, the configuration tells me that i need to have the machine on and out of estop even after i turn the machine on and hit the estop button.
[23:22:12] <mr_jimjames> any ideas?
[23:29:31] <SWPLinux> what config?
[23:29:52] <mr_jimjames> sorry for the delay. stg
[23:30:05] <SWPLinux> do you have stuff connected to the STG board?
[23:30:11] <mr_jimjames> yes
[23:30:25] <mr_jimjames> i have three encoders and three voltage outs
[23:30:53] <mr_jimjames> and a transistor/relay system to connect and disconnect the machine
[23:31:16] <SWPLinux> when you say that you "turned the machine on and hit the estop button", do you mean you physically powered the machine and hit a big red switch, or that you pressed the GUI buttons for machine on and estop?
[23:31:30] <mr_jimjames> gui
[23:31:50] <SWPLinux> hmmm
[23:32:19] <SWPLinux> does the GUI state change to "estop off" and "machine on" ?
[23:32:32] <mr_jimjames> no
[23:33:12] <SWPLinux> do you have external estop hardware connected to in-12 and out-7 on the STG board?
[23:33:27] <SWPLinux> there's an external interlock for estop in the default config
[23:33:36] <mr_jimjames> yes, i don't remember what pins.
[23:34:14] <mr_jimjames> i installed it a few days ago on a different drive and could hear the relays activating
[23:34:28] <SWPLinux> the sample config uses in-12 and out-07 - you'll need to copy and edit that config if your hardware is connected elsewhere
[23:34:41] <mr_jimjames> ok
[23:34:51] <SWPLinux> that's about as far as I can go - I don't have an STG card, I'm just looking at the stg_io.hal file :)
[23:34:58] <mr_jimjames> ok
[23:35:03] <mr_jimjames> one more question.
[23:35:07] <SWPLinux> sure
[23:35:39] <mr_jimjames> if i disconnected the estop pins from the board, would the gui still not show estop is off?
[23:36:01] <SWPLinux> uhhh - ERROR! too many negatives!
[23:36:12] <mr_jimjames> um
[23:36:22] <SWPLinux> if you disconnect the external estop, the GUI will never go to machine on/estop reset
[23:36:30] <SWPLinux> it will stay in estop mode
[23:36:34] <mr_jimjames> ok
[23:36:40] <mr_jimjames> sounds good
[23:36:46] <SWPLinux> they're done that way so that the machine will stop if a wire breaks
[23:36:47] <mr_jimjames> i'll check all that out
[23:36:51] <SWPLinux> ok
[23:36:58] <SWPLinux> have fun / good luck
[23:36:58] <mr_jimjames> thanks
[23:37:02] <SWPLinux> you're welcome
[23:46:36] <jmkasunich> craigslist rocks
[23:46:49] <SWPLinux> what'd you get this time? ;)
[23:46:54] <jmkasunich> I just got a 1 ton Yale chain hoist (new price $700) for $20
[23:47:34] <jmkasunich> gonna have to shorten the chains tho - it has a 25 foot lift
[23:47:39] <SWPLinux> heh
[23:47:41] <SWPLinux> cool
[23:49:15] <jmkasunich> scratch that price - its $1200
[23:49:16] <jmkasunich> http://www.gilmorekramer.com/more_info/model_lh2_hook_mount_hand_hoists/model_lh2_hook_mount_hand_hoists.shtml
[23:49:32] <SWPLinux> ouch
[23:49:54] <jmkasunich> this one has seen much use, but will certainly suffice for moving machinery bits around
[23:50:36] <jmkasunich> the body is aluminium too - makes getting the hoist hoisted into place less backbreaking
[23:51:37] <SWPLinux> that sounds appropriate :)
[23:51:45] <tomp> if i leave X to a terminal (^AltF<any>) then return to X (^AltF7), i have a blank screen. my only 'in' is to ^AltBS, then re-login ( hardy 8.04, Intel 945, gnrc 1280x1024 lcd) any ideas?
[23:52:18] <tomp> jmkasunich: got an ibeam in the basement?, those trolley hoists are nice and cheap
[23:52:31] <jmkasunich> tomp: unfortunately no beam
[23:52:44] <jmkasunich> I'll have to rig for it when I have a lift to do
[23:55:38] <SWPLinux> tomp: what happens if you try ^ALT+/- to change res after switching back to X?
[23:56:08] <tomp> hmm, gonna find out...
[23:56:12] <SWPLinux> you may need to add modelines or something if you can't mode switch
[23:58:10] <tomp> SWPLinux: dangit... i've been thrashing this for an hour... now it works! ^ALT+/- cycles thru all modelines
[23:58:39] <SWPLinux> heh
[23:58:45] <tomp> voodoo, lotsa weird stuff today, big lightning storm passed thru last nite.
[23:59:05] <SWPLinux> hmmm. maybe I'll catch it in Wisconsin in a couple of days
[23:59:33] <tomp> at one point i thought an emergency vehical was behind me, the lightning was so regular
[23:59:54] <SWPLinux> but was it yellow, red, or blue lights? :)