#emc | Logs for 2008-07-30

[00:17:41] <archivist> now I have 4 axis, I really really really really really want 5 axis :)
[00:20:44] <dmess> when they all work it's the cutest dream on the planet...
[00:21:52] <dmess> we had a 7/9 axis boring mill THEY sold for 180,000 canadian
[00:22:22] <dmess> it had 2 pallets z1 and z2
[00:23:50] <dmess> nutating head from HELL and a few mor it would pick up.... it would do ok on r/h parts but most l/h parts went on NCR
[00:24:03] <archivist_ub> I need to get an encoder on the spindle as well then its gear hobbing time
[00:26:18] <dmess> need very good torque/ brake to cut gears.... i think we wiped out a plc on our last gear cutting adveture... its good the next f18-ef cylinder has a scar
[00:26:54] <dmess> or rather autograph..
[00:27:25] <archivist_ub> we call it antiqued
[00:27:55] <dmess> not to the US NAVY you dont...
[00:28:07] <dmess> as OEM
[00:28:50] <archivist_ub> we make our parts to look old for antique clocks
[00:29:40] <dmess> 3/4 " ball nose ... dove in at feed and only stoped when the big RED mushroom was hit
[00:30:47] <dmess> WAS NOT PROGRAMMMED>>>> this is on a Dual Siemens 840 D.... WTF
[00:38:51] <SWPadnos> hi stustev
[00:39:14] <stustev> good evening
[00:39:27] <SWPadnos> just noticed your greeting :)
[00:39:32] <stustev> long time no talk to
[00:39:42] <SWPadnos> true indeed
[00:39:51] <SWPadnos> it's expensive to connect in Europe
[00:39:56] <SWPadnos> (at the Hiltons anyway)
[00:40:14] <stustev> world traveler and all
[00:40:32] <SWPadnos> half of it only (so far :) )
[00:40:43] <stustev> what part of EU were you in?
[00:41:02] <SWPadnos> Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin, and Cologne (plus a little town on the Rhine)
[00:41:23] <stustev> I am a pretty extensive midwest USA traveler
[00:41:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:41:32] <SWPadnos> I've been to Wichita!
[00:41:37] <ds2> taking advantage of the "special" services allowed substances in AMS? ;)
[00:41:41] <stustev> now you are talking
[00:41:45] <ds2> &
[00:41:57] <SWPadnos> no, but my wife and I did wander around the red light district a couple of times
[00:42:15] <SWPadnos> great food available there
[00:42:20] <stustev> why were you touring the stoplights?
[00:42:32] <ds2> isn't the inhalations of vapors from a certain fiberous plant allowed there?
[00:42:33] <SWPadnos> well, you have to wait for them to change, you see
[00:42:35] <SWPadnos> takes a while ;)
[00:42:43] <stustev> I see
[00:42:50] <SWPadnos> yes, it was a bit unavoidable while walking down the street
[00:43:01] <SWPadnos> window shoopping is nice though
[00:43:09] <SWPadnos> -o
[00:45:52] <stustev> SWPadnos: I see you are on the brlcad room also
[00:45:59] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:46:04] <SWPadnos> I don't say much there though
[00:46:12] <stustev> do you use it much?
[00:46:29] <stustev> or at all?
[00:46:30] <SWPadnos> I attempted to for a little while (like 15 minutes) - it wasn't enough
[00:46:48] <SWPadnos> it doesn't seem to be all that intuitive for me
[00:47:14] <stustev> It seems a little stilted at first glance.
[00:47:24] <archivist_ub> if you are used to something like solidworks its a hard to use
[00:48:02] <SWPadnos> I'm not exactly used to SolidWorks, but even old (old old) CadKey actually had a UI :)
[00:48:12] <stustev> I have Varimetrix VX - brlcad is different animal
[00:48:42] <SWPadnos> haven't heard of Varimetrix
[00:48:53] <SWPadnos> probably out of my price range ;)
[00:49:03] <stustev> that is doubtful
[00:49:58] <SWPadnos> no pricing on their site ...
[00:50:31] <SWPadnos> that's usually a good indicator that I can't afford it
[00:51:31] <SWPadnos> here's what I have: http://www.cadmax.com/
[00:51:38] <SWPadnos> as long as the company stays in business, I'll be happy
[00:52:10] <stustev> I think it is around $6000 US for the basic modeling package.
[00:52:21] <stustev> quite a difference in price
[00:52:58] <stustev> We bought this more than 10 years ago. It was the companion to our CAM package.
[00:53:25] <SWPadnos> ok, $6k is in the same range as SolidWorks
[00:53:31] <stustev> It used to run on Linux but they removed those packages years ago
[00:53:42] <stustev> yes and similar capabilities
[00:54:05] <stustev> if you are used to Solidworks you will be better with Solidworks - same with VX
[00:54:56] <stustev> VX was much more capable than Solidworks but Solidworks has made a lot of progress in the last few years
[00:58:05] <SWPadnos> brb - phone
[00:58:13] <toastydeath> does anyone here have a preference on web CMS systems
[00:58:26] <toastydeath> i want to start a webpage but I don't want a pure blog kind of thing
[00:58:51] <toastydeath> and I am afraid the static page stuff for wordpress/movable type won't scale over time
[00:59:01] <toastydeath> maybe it will and i'm just a nancy boy
[00:59:10] <archivist_ub> toastydeath, I live more in #mysql than here and see the questions and comments about many of them
[00:59:25] <toastydeath> awesome
[00:59:43] <toastydeath> do you know of any packages that have really good static page support, for like howto-type articles?
[01:00:08] <toastydeath> i want to have a front blog/news page, but most of the tutorial stuff I want to do will be in static pages and I want to keep that managable over time
[01:00:17] <archivist_ub> static? plain html
[01:00:33] <toastydeath> i'd like to keep it all in one package if possible
[01:00:38] <toastydeath> i.e. no plain html =)
[01:01:16] <archivist_ub> drupal doesnt seem to get to much hate
[01:02:04] <archivist_ub> but there are so many out there
[01:02:39] <toastydeath> yar =(
[01:02:44] <toastydeath> i will check that one out
[01:03:27] <archivist_ub> plain html is easy to deal with for static pages, pdf pages annoy me
[01:04:34] <toastydeath> yar, that sucks
[01:04:52] <archivist_ub> search facilities of some of the systems seem broken they often come in #mysql and ask "how to speed up"
[01:05:15] <toastydeath> hahaha, that i am aware of
[01:05:24] <toastydeath> "why isn't this working"
[01:05:31] <toastydeath> meanwhile the server load is like 42.8
[01:05:38] <archivist_ub> yesum
[01:06:10] <archivist_ub> where field like '%blah%' cannot use an index
[01:06:14] <toastydeath> yeah i'm just looking for a quaint little blogging platform thing with an archive where I can put howtos, drupal seems good for that, and wordpress if I can't find anything else
[01:06:47] <archivist_ub> some use a wiki
[01:07:27] <archivist_ub> use a wiki that can be locked down
[01:07:37] <toastydeath> yar
[01:10:09] <toastydeath> drupal takes it.
[01:10:21] <toastydeath> the example pages using it do exactly what i want to do
[01:10:23] <toastydeath> ty archivist_ub
[01:10:42] <archivist_ub> 2 am and home time here
[03:33:49] <cradek> all I can guess is you should put it back however it started
[03:33:55] <cradek> oops
[10:57:37] <archivist_emc> axis useability problem, if you have multiple debug messages and need to stop, focus is stolen by message dialog box and main window loses focus, it even stops the esc key
[10:59:00] <archivist_emc> it would probably be better if the messages went in a scrolled part of axis's main window
[10:59:40] <archivist_emc> can also then see a history of values
[12:24:04] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=482614&postcount=42
[12:26:30] <jepler> skunkworks_: oh geez is that "poll" the gift that is still giving?
[12:26:37] <skunkworks_> Yes.
[12:26:44] <skunkworks_> :)
[12:27:39] <skunkworks_> jepler: morning
[12:32:12] <jepler> hi skunkworks_
[12:56:38] <rayh> Oh! Wah! Dat guy is hot s&%t, 'eh!
[13:02:15] <SWPadnos> heez a d00d!
[13:05:21] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50787
[13:05:32] <skunkworks_> he has more than enough 'smarts' to make emc work.
[13:06:01] <skunkworks_> instead - he converts it to servos and geckos.
[13:06:43] <SWPadnos> actually, he makes some good points, and has one excellent observation (not about EMC, but about users)
[13:07:06] <SWPadnos> "In this case, I'm a typical consumer, I want instant gratification or I just get frustrated and move on to something less frustrating."
[13:07:15] <SWPadnos> that says a lot
[13:07:50] <SWPadnos> and it's a common affliction
[14:28:41] <skunkworks_> crap - that comes off bad.
[14:29:24] <skunkworks_> how come posts sound worse after you post them? Just a bunch of stuck up emc users.
[14:29:25] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=482737&postcount=46
[14:36:31] <SWPadnos> heh. that's why I haven't posted ;)
[14:37:27] <skunkworks_> you have more self control ;)
[14:37:44] <SWPadnos> I have more experience with "angry" emails ;)
[14:38:06] <skunkworks_> I should have atleast said - 'nice machine' :)
[14:38:23] <skunkworks_> oh well.. we don't need any more users - right?
[14:38:36] <SWPadnos> I'll probably post with something that includes "where are your feature requests?"
[14:38:39] <SWPadnos> nah - got enough
[14:39:33] <skunkworks_> I had started the post with a large paragraph saying you could have had bla bla bla bla if you used emc.. and then toned it down. (just not enough)
[14:40:13] <SWPadnos> it's fine. maybe a bit curt, but not inflammatory
[14:42:07] <cradek_> is it bad if convincing every cnc hobbyist to use emc instead of mach is not an important goal to me? some of what he says is true. I would not be so bold to tell him that he made the wrong choice - clearly the choice he made is right for him.
[14:42:17] <rayh> I wonder why he didn't use his machine to cut his operator panel.
[14:42:49] <skunkworks_> I don't think the machine is actually running yet.
[14:43:41] <rayh> Ah.
[14:43:53] <SWPadnos> but it's so simple!
[14:44:00] <rayh> Then any software should be good enough. Let's suggest pysol.
[14:44:01] <jepler> SWPadnos: shut up you
[14:44:02] <SWPadnos> </sarcasm>
[14:44:35] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[14:44:41] <skunkworks_> I think if you come into a thread about emc and say that it is too hard to use (and being a mach user) you should be called - atleast a little bit.
[14:45:15] <skunkworks_> granted - as SWPadnos said - I should have asked for a feature request list to be a bit more nice.
[14:45:29] <SWPadnos> it is funny how every once in a while, some "expert" comes along with a detailed analysis of why EMC/EMC2 isn't good enough, but we've never heard of them, they've never asked for help or made any bug reports/feature requests, etc.
[14:47:02] <cradek> well, you can decide you don't like something, and also not be interested in helping improve it.
[14:47:12] <SWPadnos> that is true
[14:47:16] <skunkworks_> cradek: any new info on the lathe? Controller still not cooperating?
[14:47:48] <cradek> I hated my '01 mustang. I'd tell anyone it sucked if they asked. But I have no obligation to carefully get each of my complaints to Ford in the most useful format for them.
[14:47:56] <archivist_ub> should I ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200240773481&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=010
[14:48:50] <skunkworks_> manual lathe? how does that work? ;)
[14:48:55] <cradek> skunkworks_: the control is sort of operational - I have not found the cause of the oscillation quiet yet, and it's been on hold a few days while I ordered a replacement coupler for the feedback module (I broke it)
[14:50:08] <cradek> it should be here today...
[14:50:47] <skunkworks_> neat. so you think it is not the tach/belt/whatever you have found so far?
[14:50:53] <rayh> archivist_ub, Those are nice second op lathes for small parts.
[14:51:17] <skunkworks_> (the oscillation)
[14:51:20] <cradek> skunkworks_: not sure. I think there's probably more than one problem. I have fixed at one of them so far.
[14:51:26] <cradek> fixed one
[14:51:43] <archivist_emc> rayh: contemplating for a cnc conversion
[14:51:58] <cradek> now that that one is fixed [loose pulley on the motor shaft] I need to start over with my systematic troubleshooting steps again
[14:52:12] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:54:32] <skunkworks_> I might be a emc vigilante. I sneak into peoples shops and replace mach with emc. Faster than a speeding blue screen.. stronger than a...
[14:56:34] <SWPadnos> ... USB cable?
[14:57:39] <cradek> skunkworks_: I'm already doing the tooling search for it... it didn't come with much.
[14:58:08] <cradek> I hope to find a 4 and maybe also a 3 jaw that will fit it
[14:58:29] <cradek> also I don't know how to drill/tap with it yet - I might have to make some holders.
[14:59:04] <rayh> I would not do that cnc conversion. But then that is here in the states.
[14:59:31] <rayh> They are much more expensive than dead cnc lathes
[15:00:02] <archivist_ub> haven't seen a dead cnc yet
[15:00:34] <rayh> If you can get it for the current bit then go for it.
[15:01:05] <archivist_ub> price is about right but its a long way from here
[15:01:22] <cradek> archivist_ub: it sure is a big relief to have a machine with ballscrews and servos to start with. I'd hate to have to do all that work.
[15:01:44] <rayh> cradek I sent you a couple papers on tool holders also.
[15:02:09] <cradek> rayh: that's great, thanks
[15:02:35] <rayh> They show a couple dozen different kinds of holders to slide in the slots.
[15:02:56] <cradek> rayh: I have a nice piece of 2"x4"x6' CRS. maybe I can make some if I can't find them.
[15:03:30] <rayh> You bet. I think some of the dimensions were listed.
[15:03:32] <cradek> there are quite a few on ebay, but so far I haven't seen anything for holding drills/taps
[15:04:19] <cradek> seems like an ERxx collet holder would be a nice hack.
[15:04:30] <cradek> (but then I have to get yet another set of collets!)
[15:04:39] <cradek> since my ER40 would be way way too big
[15:04:41] <rayh> They made a collet system
[15:20:48] <skunkworks_> cradek: you have a nice machine shop now.. You can make a lot of your own tooling :)
[19:42:31] <mib_13x9f5> mib_13x9f5 is now known as maddash
[19:42:45] <colinb> good evening
[19:42:49] <maddash> yay.
[19:43:51] <colinb> iv got an issue with the keystick thingie
[19:43:53] <archivist_ub> oo a ukean
[19:43:56] <colinb> can start it once
[19:44:00] <colinb> and it runs ok
[19:44:13] <colinb> close emc and try restart with keystick and it just exits
[19:44:33] <colinb> but all the others (axis tk mini ect) work ok
[19:45:04] <SWPadnos> how are you running it?
[19:45:10] <SWPadnos> (icon, menu, terminal ...)
[19:45:57] <colinb> tryed it both icon and terminal
[19:46:05] <colinb> on 2 different computers
[19:46:07] <colinb> and even the live CD
[19:46:22] <SWPadnos> ok - any messages on the terminal or in dmesg when you try to restart it?
[19:46:39] <colinb> yes
[19:46:48] <SWPadnos> heh - those may be helpful ;)
[19:46:52] <colinb> just the normal emc starting, emc cleaning up and closing
[19:46:57] <SWPadnos> oh
[19:48:23] <colinb> just figured the keystick setup would be nice to check on the machine via remote access
[19:48:36] <SWPadnos> yep - should be ;)
[19:48:51] <SWPadnos> keystick is probably the least maintained UI though, so some bitrot could have set in
[19:49:15] <maddash> hardware neural network
[19:49:24] <maddash> whoops
[19:51:45] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, it seems to work on sim, which is all I have available at the moment
[19:53:47] <colinb> i was only testing it under sim
[19:54:34] <colinb> ah well im not overly concerned
[19:54:42] <colinb> im prolly gonna run axis anyway
[19:55:43] <skunkworks_> someone want to take guess on how john made these clear areas within the polygon? http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/howtheheck.PNG
[19:57:47] <archivist_ub> skunkworks, either clearance on the pad or just draw (depends on software)
[19:58:09] <SWPadnos> it shouldn't be pad clearance - the pads are oval and the cutouts are rectangular
[19:58:22] <SWPadnos> is it multiple polygons?
[19:58:26] <skunkworks_> right - but there doesn't seem to be anything there.. (like a box)
[19:58:52] <archivist_ub> no problem doing rectangular clearances
[20:05:24] <skunkworks_> it isn't symetrical though.. (I went thru the clearences and such) I might just have to ask him
[20:06:30] <SWPadnos> are there keepouts in Eagle?
[20:06:53] <archivist_ub> some you just draw a clearance of arbitary shape and it becomes part of the plane entity
[20:07:22] <skunkworks_> I will have to look
[20:11:44] <skunkworks_> I don't think it is clearence because the top now is not attached to the pin and it just has the normal space around it hugging the pad
[20:19:38] <SWPadnos> the Ubuntu Eagle package appears to have some issues: http://cncgear.com/images/screwed%20EAGLE.png
[20:20:47] <SWPadnos> that's with 4.16 light
[20:21:35] <jepler> you can use a 'rect' and maybe a 'poly' in the bRestrict plane to keep a polygon from filling that area
[20:21:45] <skunkworks_> Heh - I am running 5.1.0 light
[20:21:51] <jepler> SWPadnos: that looks a bit odd
[20:22:02] <SWPadnos> at least it knows enough to ask for help
[20:22:04] <SWPadnos> several times
[20:22:04] <jepler> I use whatever package is available in 8.06/multiverse and I haven't seen that behavior
[20:22:11] <SWPadnos> this si on 7.10
[20:22:13] <SWPadnos> is
[20:23:28] <jepler> I'll stay on 4.x forever because the license I bought apparently won't work with 5.x
[20:23:29] <SWPadnos> there are "negative polygons" - the cutouts could be separate polygons that are subtracted
[20:25:14] <archivist_ub> I stay on PCAD and DOS for ever for a similar reason
[20:25:17] <skunkworks_> I would believe that if I could actually 'click' on the cleared boarder..
[20:25:25] <skunkworks_> There just doesn't seem to be anything there.
[20:25:36] <jepler> skunkworks_: make sure that the bRestrict layer is actually turned on for display
[20:25:39] <skunkworks_> you don't see it until you run the ratsnest.
[20:25:44] <archivist_ub> they become part of the poly
[20:25:45] <skunkworks_> oh
[20:26:53] <archivist_ub> delete in that clear area and it should fill (PCAD does)
[20:27:20] <jepler> actually, "forever" is until I finally make myself learn to use one of the Free schematic/board capture softwares
[20:27:48] <archivist_ub> jepler, Ive had a go with kicad this year
[20:27:49] <skunkworks_> jepler: that was it.. thanks
[20:28:30] <jepler> archivist_ub: I recently tried it too .. I let myself get frustrated, though.
[20:29:06] <archivist_ub> heh yes years of something better colours ones judgement
[20:30:35] <skunkworks_> well - that is just flippin cool
[20:32:06] <skunkworks_> I think in a few years I could be an eagle expert :)
[20:32:54] <archivist_ub> and how many years to be a pcb designer :)
[20:32:57] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ giggles at colours
[20:33:20] <skunkworks_> oh - that I can just wing most of the time..
[20:33:37] <skunkworks_> technically - that was my vocation
[20:34:20] <skunkworks_> just hasn't been used for 'gasp' 15 years
[20:35:03] <archivist_ub> Im out of practice as well at the moment, started with tape ups