cradek: do you still have that enco free-shipping code? (and is it still valid?)
hmm, I bet it doesn't apply to surface plates - even small ones
I think I want a 9x12 or 9x9 for stuff that involves applying the plate to the work
I got my 12x18 with free shipping some time ago.
I always search on one of the web bbses like http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/
[01:51:08] <cradek> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=29706&highlight=enco+code
looking at the enco site, their cheap plates are grade B, +/- 0.0001
over 9", that is nothing great
sometimes you have a pick of codes
oh, free shipping on $50 or more.....
the plate is only $17
it's easy to pad that to $50...
but then you gotta pay the bill
12x18 is $37 and still free shipping
and probably worth it to avoid paying for shipping that
fenn: I have a 12x18 that is better quality than theirs
oh, you wanted a smaller one?
the 9x12 is $14.95 today
granite isn't the best for that then
9x12 is 30 lbs
I can deal with that
30lb is a lot easier to throw around than 85
(although 85 is still pretty easy)
it depends on what you are doing with it
you put the compound on it right side up - then pick it up, flip it over, and lay it on the surface to be worked, which in this case is a couple inches above elbow height
I did 37 rounds of moving the 74 lbs casting to the plate, at a nicer height
I think my plate is more than 85 lbs too - its 4" thick
$ units 12in*18in*4in*2.75gm/cm3 lb
where did you get the density number?
google "granite density"
(enco says 85 lbs for the 12x18x3)
that's a bizarre coincidence
interesting graph of human strength vs position on page 2: http://www.wholeearth.com/uploads/2/File/documents/vermont_farm_women.pdf
by that math, the 9x12 is only 21 lbs ;-)
there must be different kinds of granite?
I'm sure there are
dunno how much the density varies tho
enco's weights may be shipping weight?
that could be. I think mine came in a wood box of some kind
I'm torn - the plate certainly would be handy right now, but then how long till I use it again?
you could hold something down with it...
use it as a cutting board
that would wear it
2.6g/cm^3 is lighter than aluminum (2.7)
i think its more like 2.96
the internet thinks it's 2.7 - 2.75
a 12x18x4 aluminum slab would weigh a lot too. it wouldn't surprise me if they were similar.
specifically black granite?
"A standard reference notes that the average density of granite is 2.667 grams/cc and the range of densities is 2.516-2.809 grams/cc."
of course "granite" surface plates may not fit the geologist's idea of what a granite is
are we talking about scraping
granite surface plates, and what they weigh
check msc and the shipping weight?
my 12x18x4 is more than I want to be flipping upside down - I have an 8x9 surface on a 250 lbs casting that I want to work
topic is roughly: what is the best thing to carry around to test blue
I'm looking at enco's "30 lb" 9x12x2
quotes because their stated weights don't work out when you do the math
jmkasunich: do you have a bathroom scale? you could just weigh and measure yours to settle the point
in that form factor i know they make cast iron plates, that use webbing and stuff that are specifically for portability
yes, I could
but I'm lazy
dunno where to find them though, just seen them.
jmkasunich: it roughly matches up with another internet posting (9x12x1 = 13lbs)
toastydeath: the 9x12 from enco is approximately free ($15)
the 13lbs is supposed to be light weight
even though its density is 3.3
man with one surface plate knows what flat is...
of course that's the first thing I'd do with a second surface plate
spot the 9x12 two places on the 12x18
man with atomic surface plate get confused when he put it on satellite?
* fenn wonders if that was too many allusions at once
cradek: did you say you got a gallon of way oil from enco?
I ordered it, yes
trying to think of things to fill out the $50
can't go wrong with cheap end mills
have any roughers? they make 3/8 and 1/2
thats a thought - I don't have roughers
you'll never look back - they are great.
why are steel surface plates so much more expensive?
granite can be lapped flat, steel are scraped (I think)
"number of products: 196"
many steel plates are lapped, too
any suggestions to narrow down the selection of roughers
jmkasunich: I remember you also need 246 blocks - that will surely get you over $50 :-/
my guess would be economy of scale, and also weight
(I already filtered by 3/8" shank to fit my holders)
jmkasunich: don't get a semi-rougher.
cradek: I saw those - $70ish
but I don't "need" them
also the less expensive roughers are cut like a leadscrew, rather than form relief
and those tend to pull out.
centercutting, .375 cut, .375 shank => 7 choices
hmm, $54 for a set of 4 - 1/4, 5/16, and 3/8 with 3/8 shanks, and 1/2 with 1/2 shank
order total 53.31
I tried to get it closer to $50....
plate, way oil, two roughers, and a 1/8 reamer that I've been meaning to get for a while
did you get a full gallon?
yeah, I didn't see anything smaller
I would have been happy with less but it's not too bad.
I hear some stuff comes as 5 gal.
that was the other choice
sometimes threading email clients are a pain
it paired this order ack with the one from a couple months ago
that must be a pseudothread - guessed by subject.
maybe its trying to tell me to clean out my inbox once in a while
ideally you could turn that off and keep the real threading
I guess now I have an excuse for not working on the grinder for a few days
as I do with my lathe
I spent some time tonight checking the 1" x 3/4" x 12" parallels I bought a while back
gonna need those for the grinder work
those are some big parallels
turns out the height matching is only so-so - about 0.0004
they were on sale, something like $30 for the pair
if you had a grinder, you could fix them!
that thought has crossed my mind ;-)
my chinese set is great. they are matched well and also the exact marked height (to .0001 afaict)
for the immediate need, it is sufficient to know the mismatch
(I won't be using them as parallels - more like straightedges)
what's funny is that the 3/4" dimension is better matched
* jmkasunich drools at the master precision level
wouldn't need the plate if I had that
but I doubt the bench I have the grinder on is stable enough
anonimasu: what is "jone's drive"
[03:06:13] <jmkasunich> http://pico-systems.com/motion.html
one of these days: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=951530&PMAKA=638-7780
me too. can't justify it for as rarely as I'd use it though.
I'd be able to use it on the grinder in a number of ways
then of course http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=4822332&PMAKA=240-0352
the existance of the enco one is what takes it from a "never worth it" to "one of these days" item
yeah. wonder if it's any good though.
I have my dad's starret machinest level, but that is only 0.005 per foot, not 0.0005
levels are easy enough to check
spin it, same reading?
yeah if it checks flat and you can reverse it, it's good
put it on the plate, and level the plate (wedge or screw under one end)
spin it and reads the same just means it is zeroed (and that is usually adjustable)
the next step is "is one graduation really 0.0005 per foot?"
oh well that's true.
test that with feeler gages - 0.001 under one end, 0.0015 under the other
easy with foot long level and 5t shim
actually I'd probably go high class, I have gage blocks
0.1000 under one end, 0.1005 under the other
cradek: you need one for the lathe
to make sure the bed isn't twisted
this lathe does not need leveling
all lathes need leveling
nope, the massive casting is mounted at three points, even the manual says don't sweat it.
it says just put it on a reasonably strong floor
one foot adjusts so it doesn't rock - that's all you have to do
wait - three feet = no rocking
why do you need to adjust?
the lathe to the cabinet - three feet; cabinet to the floor - 4 feet
I wish more machines had three point mounts
my grinder would be a perfect candidate for that
I'm amazed at this ongoing thread of people saying they wish emc had soft limits
duh, it does
start another thread wishing emc had users who rtfm
heh, the hnc has one soft limit (as far as I can tell) - but the control keeps counting as you jog past it - you have to jog all the way back again to move
all the other directions it seems like you just run into the limits. maybe it's misadjusted though.
on the plus side, MDI G1 started working today for some reason
hopefully not too rough on him
any lists of tried&tested servo motors used with EMC2? i didnt find any off the shelf ac/dc on wiki http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
motors don't care what software is driving them
amps drive motors, we tell people to use stuff like Jon E's and Mesa. Where might a user get such motors? Anyone tried a Pansonic/Mitsubisihi/Baldor, what did they think of them
I disagree that you're out of luck without switches. soft limits are still very useful.
only if you somehow connect them to a specific machine position
I just measured the 2nd parallel for straightness - less than 0.0001 deflection over the entire 12"
I'm impressed - the first one had 0.0002 of bend in it
yes, jog to one end of travel, or a mark or something, hit home
I did that with max forever (still do for Z)
you can add a comment about "pseudo-homing" to gain the benefits of soft limits without switches
who made this emc video? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3321458111477478272
on many commericial machines, the hard limits kill power to the servos and the restart is complicated
soft limits are a+
could be, custom python monitors, thx
that video was awallin
SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
jmkasunich: awallin made it im the other anders :)
anonimasu: thx, i found it http://www.anderswallin.net/2007/11/spinning-the-dc-servos/
cradek_ is now known as cradek
my new butterfly http://imagebin.ca/view/fDxGa0.html
are the antennae part of it, or separate pieces?
nice, even nice shadows. waterjet?torch?laser?
BigJohnT: what was the url for the video of your machine? a guy here is interested.
forget it, he has to go do his job :-)
cradek: the antennae and legs are coat hanger welded on
no just kidding
[14:51:01] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Videos#Plasma_cutting
[15:26:32] <fragalot> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/18/FortranCodingForm.png
who feels like programming fortran for IBM?
not me, not me!
just made it desktop wallpaper
I have a deck of cards in the loft from an IBM 1136
may have fortran
the aptos project uses some auto f2c
whoah steppers are hard to turn if the leads are shorted
lol now my fingers hurt from trying
fragalot: yeah, that's a good way to determine which leads are on the same winding, too.
jepler: gotta question on enables.
i have a Z axis with NO brake. any type of fault, even a simple following error, disables the amps and the z axis falls. not good.
in the x axis test, in the stepper mill config, should my limit switches be able to stop the motion, while I'm holding down the jog button? (they don't)
can you counterbalance your Z?
Roguish, that is a hardware problem
Roguish: Just curious.. that's a really bad setup(dangerous)
the big red button should remove power from the machine, regardless of whether EMC is even running (or whether the PC is on)
in that case, the Z axis should stop, period
* anonimasu nods
i got the estop ok. i just concerned that during this initial period that if i do get a following error the axis does not fall
if the PC is off, does the Z asix fall?
it shouldnt fall ever no matter what really..
in core-servo the amp-enable is tied to the axis enables. is it possible to disconnect this? any other repercussions?
that's my point :)
i will be adding a break in a while.
jmkasunich; nice blog post about the scraping
sounds like one of those menial tasks you tend to dread ;)
lerneaen_hydra: what url?
i can disconnect the physical amp enable, but the dac-enable concerns me 'cause it shuts down. no dac signal and the axis falls.
[17:16:02] <lerneaen_hydra> http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom
Roguish: you can hook anything you like to your amplifier's enable input, but if you don't tie axis.0.amp-enable-out to them then you won't get emc's usual behavior to disable the amps in any state but MACHINE ON. you have to decide for yourself whether this has safety reprocussions in your machine.
anonimasu; yeah, too bad actually doing it isn't nearly as nice ;)
i understand this. i guess i will open up the z axis following error limit, and hope i don't get any other faults that trip the 'enables'.
like I said, i will be installing a break in a while, i just don't know when. i have brought it up with the client as a safety issue.
so - how do you deal with the falling Z during estop?
i don't, it falls. such is the 'safety issue'.
Roguish: better deal with it fast.. before it happens
Roguish: or get a paper saying it's not your fault.
Otis solved that problem a long time ago
If the elevator dropped the dogs kicked in and locked the elevator to the shaft :)
* anonimasu nods
I've seen that before
this has always been the action, unfortunately. there are several other safety issues. the spindle drive discoonect is the breaker across the building and around the corner. and others.
wire it all through estop.
that sounds like a machine you might loose a arm/leg/head to at random point in time..
by code the disconnect must be in sight of the motor...
or get impaled with a endmill/drill when the axis falls out of control with the spindle on
anyway, thanks for the advice. gotta shut down for a bit and install the front of the cabinet. ttfn.
well, as long as I dont have to run it..
in the x axis test, in the stepper mill config, can anybody tell me if the limit switch should be able to stop motion? Just want to confirm the correct behavior before I do more testing.
(stop motion generated by clicking 'jog')
why do you have two nicks?
because konversation freenode doesn´t allow me to be in enough channels with one
* h2i didn´t sleep enough last night
too much IRC :)
heh, can´t get enough of it, for sure :)
owad: does the axis limit popup show up when you cycle the switch?
no -- I've never even seen such a popup
I have both limit and home on the same pin. Is it ok to wire them such that they're floating when open, and 5v when cosed?
then your limit switch is not connected somewhere either in EMC or electrically
normally limit switches are closed for ok and open when tripped
did you do a stepconf wizard to generate your config
I'm in the middle of that config right now
testing the x axis
when testing in stepconf AFAIK the limit switches are not in play
I was hoping that might be the case! :)
so if I open up EMC with this config and press the switch, it'll pop up a dialog?
yes it will say something like Axis 1 limit switch
there's an arror pointing to a line (as it to indicate a limit) beside the X axis readout. When I push the switch, the arrow goes away? Does that mean I have it wired backwards?
possibly, I'm not near a Linux machine to see perhaps someone else can verify
* BigJohnT looks in the docs
does it look like an arrow with a vertical line?
brakes ( clutches ) that the motor shaft go thru are pretty cheap. Bendix makes some. When powered, they release, So I have one on Z that is in series with hardware Estop.
then that is the limit switch and I was not correct about the limit in stepconf
I'm seeing that icon in the actual program -- not in stepconf
so if I see that icon when the switch is not depressed, it means I have it backwards, right?
ok, then reverse the switch to be N/C
you should get a popup too
everything is 'stopped' though, might that make the difference?
yes, you have to be in run mode to get the popup
then it looks like it's wired up correctly. Thanks!
if the popup can occur in any state, then it is easier to check. may be safer than testing in run mode too.
you can see whether any axis is on a limit by looking at the icon on the DRO, which I'd say is easier than dealing with popups
anything is easier than dealing with a limit popup :)
hey all. quick question. how do i get emc to recognize a different file extension as a gcode file? example: .nc
hmmm, I did that once
look in the [DISPLAY] or [FILTER] section of the manual
is it in FILTER? or something like that?
yea, I had to do it so it would open up .NGC and .ngc files
Note to self: do not put stepper motor leads in mouth to hold while turning the stepper
a shocking truth
BigJohnt: yeah, the FILTER did the trick. thanks.
what is stuarts site with pictures?
pmbdk_ is now known as pmbdk
is this thing on?
* robin_sz looks around
still have all my fingers..
I set the bar pretty low
so the anti-leprosy drugs really do work then?
crap - I didn't know I was supposed to bring my 'A' game today
funny how i keep coming back here :)
suddenly got a burning (hah, burning geddit?) desire to build a CNC tube cutter
seems the only real way to mitre cut pipes
how many axes?
ummm .. .im thinking 3 ... X .. A and sub x
how long are the pipes?
up to 12" / 315 mm OD
im thinking X for moving the chuck along the bed
A for rotating it
wouldn't it be simpler to move the plasma head?
and sub x, for moving the torch +- 300mm in X
yep, thats sub X
but if you were moving the chuck you'd have cantilever force on the bearings from the pipe's weight
these things usually look like a long bed, with a travelling chuck that supports and turns the back end of the pipe
um, i guess i dont see the point to two X axes
and a second fixed chuck up the front ens
im just looking how the commercial macchines work
a big X for bulk movement
what about torch hight?
and a small x with the torch mounted that does the sine motion as the tube rotates to produce the bevel cut
just rollers resting on the tube will be fine for height
ok - now you're making sense :)
id rather not bother, but getting 12" tube mitre sawn is HARD
rotate tube for A, pivot torch for B/C (whatever you want to call it), and move X for length
then you still need Z height
nah, just use rollers resting on tube
and it could be good to have a secondary Z so you can lower the tube into a water bath - that could be used to allow you to cut only one side of the tube (if that's ever necessary)
I was thinking of just a big fan sucking the crap out of the end of the tube
it seems to be that you'd scar the inside of the opposite side of the tube once the plasma pierced through
is this pretty much what you're thinking? http://news.thomasnet.com/images/large/017/17407.jpg
I was thinking of a secondary fixed chuck ..
like that, but a fixed secondar support before the torchg
all cutting takes place to the righ tof the secondary support
then it can happily cop off 1.2m lengths and have em roll away ...
cu thte next
easy enough .. been forced into it really by the lack of people around here who can motre cut 12" pipe
[20:01:00] <robin_sz> http://www.ronmack.com.au/MachineryDetails/tabid/92/ProductID/180/Default.aspx
more like that I guess
that is a big-ass chuck
yeah, looks about 24"
bigger than I need for sure
i could see portable would be useful on construction sites
unlikely, most of this sort of stuff is fabricated in specialist plants and delivered to site ready to rock
as opposed to delivering the program ;)
its fairly heavy fabrication, you dotn weld this sort of stuff on site
i think EMC is the tool for this :)
so long as it can manage coordinated X and A moves, its a cinch
robin_sz: sound like neat application, i thought it was for box tube. emc could handle that too but i imagine more axis are involved.
yeah , I wrote all the C for doing box, with 4 axes
never really tried it though
[20:20:05] <robin_sz> http://www.blmgroup.com/img_prod/prodotti/lasertube/LT722D/video.wmv
4 axis laser box
[20:21:55] <robin_sz> http://www.blmgroup.com/img_prod/prodotti/lasertube/jumbo/video.wmv
that is awesome
is that movie 1:1 speed?
thick wall tube
the ist one is 1:1 as well
lasers are quick :)
in the first one everything falls too fast and the sparks don't look right (in addition to being wicked fast)
nah, its 1:1
1.5mm wall I would say
so .. 5m to 10m a minute?
a modern 5kw would do twice that in flat sheet
20m a minute is possible
well - I think the current sense logic will work. :)
now on to making the pcb
skunkworks_: what will you sell them for?
the ouput of the flipflop goes low (enable for the bridge driver) when the current treshold is tripped and stays low until the current goes down and there is a raising edge of the pwm input
cradek: What kind of liabillity is involved with that? ;)
what was that popular encoder in / DC out servo board for EMC?
I suppose I could sell a 'kit'
skunkworks_: that might be cool
the mesa card is still hte Way To Go right?
robin_sz: mesa or pico
pico is // port, right?
mesa is pci
yeah,mesa is cheaper I htink
[21:12:05] <jepler> http://mesanet.com/
5i20 PCI card + 7i33 quad analog servo interface +7i37 isolated I/O card(s)
pico sells amps and the whole shebang
pico is pretty tempting for my lathe if I can't get the existing Z setup to work right
huh, is this a new product? 7i29 dual 2KW h-bridge
so 199 + 69 + 69 .. $340 USD roughly
thats .. what in GBP?
hmm ..lets see if they can give me a shipping price to the UK
so just grab ubuntu Hardy Heron, add a line or two to apt/sources and apt-get emc2?
ok, I found steve hardys install widget
* robin_sz wonders if that will work on debian testing ...
motors and stuff showed up FEDEX at 5:30...hee haww
packed within an inch of its life and a customs invoive under 1/2 what i paid... ;)
6 dollars for my USE nema 23 motors... they are brand new in the box
too small for me ~_~
nema 23 moves my table but it wont cut metal nicely
i only have a SMALL tathe to control
the whole system with 2 X 2 contactor relay boards... 3 motors 3 axis board power supply and cable 200 bucks canadian... delivered in 5 days... from mexico to canada thru the US
dmess where from?
am i F#cked??
hardware looks decent so far.. I havent hooked anything up yet... im not configered yet
i need mounts and couplers still
northern mexico? ;) (shades of coneheads 'we are from france' )
all your servomotor are belong to us
make your time you have to chance to survive