SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
[01:00:57] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=481190&postcount=46
skunkworks: that's pretty gnarly
looks like A36 hot rolled steel
which has been described as "machines like a pink pencil eraser"
i recognize the name from the gingery machines group
were they saying not to use it?
no, matthew tinker posts regularly
oh, the person's name
I thought you meant A36
after 37 rounds, I am declaring the bottoms of the dovetails scraped
hi jmk.... what does one use for scraping? a lathe tool?
a scraper :)
you can make one from a triangular file by grinding the teeth down and sharpening what's left
a lathe tool would make scratches because it has a sharp point, but a shaper blade has a very large effective radius
otherwise you would only be able to make convex surfaces
I have an actual scraping too that my Dad gave me
its about 1-1/4" wide, 1/16" thick (at the business end), has a long (18" or so) shank, with a largish file handle on it
this one has a carbide tip, which is nice, otherwise I'd be honing it every few rounds
interesting.... do you have a picture?
of the tool? I can take one
I'm just getting ready to post some pics of the scraping itself
that would be very interesting
so - is it 1-blue 2-run slide back and forth C-scape areas that don't have bluing on them..?
THATS a scraper... KEEP It forever
1) blue surface plate (or just even off the blue that is already on it - you don't have to add fresh every round)
2) place slide on plate
3) slide around just a little bit (an inch or so, 4-6 times)
4) scrape the blue spots (they are the highest)
how would that work with 'V' ways?
or - How would you do 'V' style ways
* skunkworks should google
you need a master straightedge
preferrably either granite or scraped cast iron - ground doesn't spot well
dmess: I intend to - I have no idea how I'd ever get another one
visit a machine rebuilder that does scraping. all the press rebuilders I know of have guys that scrape, they have loads of work
hang your straightedge, never lay it down for hours
I wish I had a straightedge
MSC sells scrapers, and so do several other places
maybe you got this already " Making Accurate Straight-Edges from Scratch " http://home.comcast.net/~jaswensen/machines/straight_edge/straight_edge.html
tomp: way too much effort
lol i tried that with some plates and ohhhh my god
they are still sitting next to my desk
[02:34:26] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/Busch-Cast-Iron-Straight-Edge-Lathe-Mill-Scraping_W0QQitemZ140252892356QQihZ004QQcategoryZ58247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[02:35:22] <jmkasunich> http://cgi.ebay.com/BROWN-SHARPE-24-BLACK-GRANITE-STRAIGHT-EDGE-TOOL_W0QQitemZ270258567382QQihZ017QQcategoryZ58245QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[02:45:29] <tomp> http://www.andersonscraper.com/
for some supplies neither of the tool on ebay look like what i've seen. but then i have no pix ( they were very long (4' at least) and lots of webbing and cast )
a straightege is whatever shape you find most convenient.
most are camelback, which is lots of webbing and cast.
some are really big boxes, some are 30 deg wedges
"The Swiss trained Scrapers in England rebuilding SIP Jig Bores were pull scraping using homemade scrapers made by silver brazing a carbide tool insert on the end of a bent piece of 3/8" dia CRS with a file handle on the back end."
here ya go, for those big jobs the guys pulled out the BIAX built in Switzerland http://www.dapra.com/biax/scrapers/index.html
oh, I could use that to mess things up ten times faster
the old guys wont let newbies near it, newbies gotta llok like popeye before they can touch 'em ( meaning years of scrapin')
they got a 500page book & video for all the masochists out there ( afterwards you can learn mold polishing, another mind numbing sport )
ah, better straight edges http://www.machinerepair.com/
and some vid clips of scraping
I ordered (and paid for) one of those books years ago
never got it
jeez, sorry. i hate ripoffs
[03:01:16] <jtr> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=145749
pics of nice straightedges made from Durabar...
if you read back in rec.crafts.metalworking the whole sad story is there - apparently Michael Morgan had either family or business difficulties (or both), and just got overwhelmed
and i was reading about 'ume' a new 8.04 ubuntu for embedded
jmkasunich: it was M Morgan in the vid clips, right
photos posted: http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/index.html
jmkasunich: neat. how much rock did it have to start with? seems like it would have been tempting to mill it flat first.
I didn't measure it
I'm guessing the low spot is only a couple thou low
hand that man a can of spinach ! nice work
milling would have been a setup nightmare, and I would have been really scared
scraping can ruin things, but it happens very slowly
milling can ruin things in a few seconds
like yesterday, i drilled 17 holes in the wrong place in a 14" x 14" x 1.5" aluminum jig plate
ruined, or can you just drill them in the right place too?
Murphy says they are 1/2" holes, 1/4" off
i was running a countersink tool
so they'll be okay.
plus it's fixturing, not a customer part, so it should be okay.
still made me furious though.
just flip the plate upside down and nobody will notice.
wow - look at the pics in this post: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=338620&postcount=75
especially the last two - now that is some nice scraping
makes you inspired to learn how to scrape
* anonimasu is installing vmware
im going to have a look at writing a mono library to access hal pins and receive nml messages.
well mono bindings..
* anonimasu is grabbing the install cd now
20 minutes left -_-
cradek: do you have any good idea where to start looking at nml?
rather anyone :)
the simplest users of NML are probably keystick (3000 lines) and halui (2000 lines)
I'm mostly interested in the message grabbing loop..
im hoping to write a c# lib to use it..(I've said so before)
(I'd really like a ui that emulates the heidenhain control I have)
I recommend you start at 'main' in halui (at the bottom) and follow the flow of the code.
im grabbing the source via cvs now
and what's a better idea to start with?
hal or nml?
if you want to display a machine interface on a monitor and run it with keyboard and/or mouse, then you want NML.
if you want to have a physical button perform an action, or a physical indicator reflect state, then you may just want halui and not need to write any software.
I'd need both then..
where is the python nml lib located?
hm.. it really seems like I should write a wrapper for the python stuff ;)
hi trying to build the cvs, n sim build i get a error, config runs ok, but on make i get make: *** [../rtlib/abs.so] Error 1
you might have to run make again...
whn i look in the rtlib folder there is no abs.so only abs.ko
Where did you get the OS install that you are working in, Guest957?
ok I can quit guessing now that Ray is here :)
Nah. We are brainstorming. Everyone gets to guess.
but that was my only guess
i think was livecd pritty sure it wasnt unbuntu cd as such
the realtime made fine no errors
what does uname -r report?
when building sim, did you configure --enable-simulator ?
./configure --enable-run-in-place --enable-simulator
emc@emc-550:~/emc2-trunk/src$ make make: Entering directory `/home/emc/emc2-trunk/src' Linking ../rtlib/abs.so ld: no input files make: *** [../rtlib/abs.so] Error 1
i did a update on CVS files 10mins ago to see if it had missed file etc, but still was same above had look on the mailing list also see if problem was reported
you may need to make clean
I'm a bit confused by "realtime made fine."
it sounds like you did a realtime make, then did a sim make (if there are .ko files)
trying to follow wiki, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
doing the clean and remake seemes to have fixed it
SWPadnos, gets the gold star this morning!
more coffee for me! :)
lool, *pat on the back
hmm whn start emc i get a lot of errors relating to NML
Guest957: sorry I don't have a guess for that one...
This is trunk you are trying to compile?
make sure to source scripts/emc-environment
`. scripts/emc-environment` will do that
emcError buffer not available can't connect to NML buffers in emc.nml
correct rayh yes the trunk cvs of emc
Guest957, How are you starting it up after you "make" and "sudo make setuid?"
you don't need setuid for sim
at mo from shell, script/emc
and you are picking one of the trunk configs rather than a installed config?
aaha think its working now
* anonimasu punches nml
yep ll seems 2 wrk, thx guys
im so lost as to how this works ^_^
Fantastic. Good luck with the next steps.
How long have you been working with EMC2?
dw anonimasu was me playing with 2 many things hehe
No matter how long we've been around it, there are things to break and not understand.
beens playing with it on and off for while rayh nuthing 2 serius, did a friends orac lathe a long time ago now with EMC
we are now looking at converting our leadwell VMC over to EMC swoping the old mitsubishi brain
I think breaking things is a part of the journey into open source.
How old is that Mitts brain?
1985 or around there
problem is program storage with it, 18k space with todays programs goes pritty past it, also we would like to 4th axis the mill 2 for jobs
I toured the Mitts facility in Chicago years ago. They had a working copy of each version in a long row.
I once paid $11k for a memory expansion card.
yea, ours wount read in on the RS232 now also so wev used up all our old tape (they where the days) so now we have to long hand it in to it so its not used 2 much
And it wasn't all that much memory.
Sounds like it is about ripe for an EMC2 brain.
tell us about it, same for our FANUC machines its more like whats ur tel# & thats price
iv got two mesa cards here and IOs and servo boards to put into it and interface in, just case getting things rolling
It was $2k for a replacement 4k memory board on a GE 1050.
That is a good combo.
i have all leadwell manuals etc which tell me all the interface relays etc so shouldt take 2 much work
Just a matter of drawing out the new plan.
few late nights and weekends soon get it done ;) not forgetting to do some work in meantime lol
huh I expected to find tape available every day on ebay but I was wrong.
Guest957: regarding your compile issues: If you compile for RT in a directory tree (CVS checkout), when you reconfigure for --enable-simulator you must do a make clean to get rid of the RT object files
and the same when switching from sim to RT
make doesn't know that you''ve changed modes, it only sees that the object files are newer than the source, and thinks they don't need to be recompiled
regarding the running issues - when doing run-in-place, the best bet is to always run from the top dir of your checkout, and always do ". scripts/emc-environment" first (in each shell you are using)
if you find yourself typing "scripts/emc" instead of just "emc", you will probably have troubles
jmkasunich: your words of wisdom have been saved for all mankind here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Reconfiguring_emc2
* BigJohnT goes back out to the shop to turn metal to plasma dust
thanks for the clear up jmkasunich
yea, cradek, even if we found more tape out tape punch has gone up the wall and will not even talk 2 the PC now so i think its kinda telling us somthing
I could still locate a tape punch if require for a short period of time..
i am in uk, its ok as machine is now pritty much apart for converson thx for offer
BigJohnT: thanks for adding http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Reconfiguring_emc2
to the wiki
I went in and touched it up a little
when shopping via usdigital how do you pay them=
they say they accept card but it seems like the only orders they take are via mail
you call them on the phone and read your credit card number to them
jmkasunich: last post http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61437&page=2
I find it much less disturbing to read my number on the phone than to type it into a webpage
skunkworks what is a UC3843?
[18:18:41] <skunkworks_> http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/uc3843.pdf
anonimasu: I've been ordering things by phone with credit cards since before there was a web
skunkworks - oh, a switching power supply controller....
never thought of that
that will involve a bit of hacking - the controller chips usually generate their own PWM
I'm sure you can defeat that tho
jmkasunich: I'm ending up ordering some encoders for my machine from usdigital..
i can't get to pay pal on this linux box for some reason..
but the issue is what a sane CPR is.. then
depends on the speed you expect to have, and how you are counting it
I think in general you want the highest CPR that meets these requirements:
1) can be counted reliably
(at max speed)
2) doesn't cost extra
3) I thought there was a #3, but I forgot it already
for testing I'm going to use my geckos..
and for the real deal im going to use mesa or something like that
or well, eqivalent deal that lets me use the tach feedback of my motors
I'd like to use a mesa 7I33 and jone's drives..
the 0-10v ones
unless someone has a better idea :)
well, maybe this is a better question, What is the best setup for my machine?(3 axis mill), I've got servos with tachos and encoders mounted on them.
Do Jon's drives take a tach feedback?
Yes, the analog ones
[18:34:12] <anonimasu> http://www.pico-systems.com/servo.html
Oh. I guess I was thinking of the pwm ones.
I'm thinking about Mesa 520i + 7i33 and thoose drives
Sounds good to me.
I dont know of a much better setup
They are certainly tested with EMC2 and known to work well.
69$ + 199$ for the the 5i20 and the servo card
and 60$ per axis..
Gotta run away for a while.
I don't see a way to disable the internal osc
the internal osc is isolated and runs the S of the flipflop
unless I made some sort of circuit to fool the R/C input of the osc that used the pwm signal from emc.
jepler: i had no success sending every 1ms a udp-packet , but using halsampler to send 1000 packages or the data from it is no problem
jepler: now i think ablut to delay all samples for ~50 ms and make the 1msjob by a uc
alex_joni: tried to use an AVR and ENC28j60 to interface with EMC
gefink: nice.. I'd still look into ethercat if I had plans like that :D
anonimasu: nor now unsucessfuel
but you need external HW for that
* fragalot wants a USB version of EMC :(
alex_joni: i wanted to use a lightwight device. ethercat and rtnet are a bit fat
fragalot: there are a couple out there
can't remember the name, but emc-based
fragalot: you cant send more as 500 packages per second
SWPadnos might remember
gefink: I'd expect more with rtnet
gefink: well, as its for my first DIY one, its most likely going to be VERY VERY slow,... so,... :p
ethernet based!... lol
but the idea to buffer all commands in a fifo could be a solution also for usb
or to send over all the commands in 1 go to the machine, like a printer :p
maybe the ft232 with its internal fifos can do the timing
well... make it!
fragalot: i think using halsampler like driver which sends all channels parallel,
gefink: I'd do it if i were clever enough
(or had enough time to do research on it-)
or even the hardware to test afterwards :p
somebody can help me about jogwheel?
from parallel port ?
fr: one problem with usb is that it brakes sometime realtime without hard load
i have 3 parallel port working
and one jogwheel 100 cpr
x1 x10 x100
sounds like a standard mpg pendant
i found example hal
only for m5i20 board
this one? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hooking_Up_A_MPG_Pendant
what is the link for the m5i20 board?
[19:46:53] <billy_kid2> http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/11/jogging-emc2/
does my link answer your question?
the next question is how fast emc can measure encoders with a mesa card..
(well the 4i20..
no.. the 7i33
1mhz max input rate..
1 million counts/sec
err 4 million counts.
fast enough I'd say