#emc | Logs for 2008-07-21

[00:13:34] <dmess> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230272792893&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123
[00:13:44] <dmess> what are you scraping??
[00:14:54] <SkullWorks_PGAB> ways on his newly acquired benchtop surface grinder.
[00:14:54] <jmkasunich> grinder Y ways
[00:15:57] <lerneaen_hydra> scraping? scraping what? hardened emulsion?
[00:16:04] <jmkasunich> cast iron
[00:16:41] <lerneaen_hydra> uh, what are you scraping away?
[00:16:45] <jmkasunich> the X axis is steel balls on hardened steel rails, little or no wear
[00:16:56] <jmkasunich> the Y is cast iron dovetails, and they are worn in spots
[00:17:05] <jmkasunich> I'm scraping away the high spots to make them flat again
[00:17:12] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, nice
[00:17:18] <lerneaen_hydra> how do you do that?
[00:17:21] <jmkasunich> slowly
[00:17:23] <jmkasunich> :-(
[00:17:39] <lerneaen_hydra> err, how do you remove the material and keep it level and true?
[00:17:54] <jmkasunich> thin film of prussian blue on surface plate, put part on plate to mark high spots, then turn it over and scrape where it is marked
[00:17:57] <jmkasunich> repeat till done
[00:18:09] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, hmm, fun.
[00:18:10] <SkullWorks_PGAB> its an art
[00:18:11] <jmkasunich> I've done 13 cycles so far, an it looks a lot better than it did
[00:18:15] <lerneaen_hydra> manually scrape?
[00:18:19] <jmkasunich> yes
[00:18:24] <lerneaen_hydra> with some carbide scraper?
[00:18:30] <jmkasunich> yeah
[00:18:44] <lerneaen_hydra> interesting
[00:18:57] <lerneaen_hydra> I assume it's enough to scrape the large flat section of the way
[00:19:15] <lerneaen_hydra> as you can adjust the dovetail tightness to keep it tight enough
[00:19:20] <jmkasunich> the flats are more critical than the dovetail on a grinder
[00:19:38] <lerneaen_hydra> ok. any idea of how much material you're removing?
[00:19:39] <jmkasunich> which is fortunate, because scraping the dovetail is a pain in the rear
[00:19:43] <jmkasunich> very little
[00:19:51] <lerneaen_hydra> I can imagine that...
[00:20:04] <jmkasunich> well under 0.001" per pass
[00:20:26] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, that much?
[00:20:26] <dmess> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330254039921&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123 scraping IS an art... congrats .. there arent many of us left who CAN
[00:20:32] <jmkasunich> I'm taking pictures of the blue pattern every 5 passes, I'll post them later
[00:20:47] <jmkasunich> "well under 0.001"
[00:20:55] <lerneaen_hydra> do you get some crud/dust/chaff after each pass?
[00:21:00] <jmkasunich> I wouldn;t be surprised if it is actually 0.0001
[00:21:08] <dmess> .0003-/0005 per GOOD strock
[00:21:08] <jmkasunich> yeah, a bit of dust
[00:21:26] <dmess> stroke
[00:21:40] <lerneaen_hydra> if the way is that flat, and you could only get a part flatness of something like 10 times that, what's the point of scraping it?
[00:21:40] <jmkasunich> dmess: I'm not particularly good at it
[00:21:44] <jmkasunich> just stubborn
[00:21:55] <jmkasunich> the way is not that flat
[00:22:12] <jmkasunich> I bet I started with 0.002" or so of sag in the middle where it is worn
[00:22:32] <dmess> thats what make a good scraper/artist
[00:22:41] <jmkasunich> the finished surface is flat, but not smooth
[00:22:59] <dmess> so now smooth it..
[00:22:59] <jmkasunich> the individual scrape marks hold oil, it actually runs better than a ground way
[00:23:00] <lerneaen_hydra> oh. so you get a flatness by just using lots of elbow grease and multiple passes :(
[00:23:17] <jmkasunich> lerneaen_hydra: right, lots and lots and lots of elbow grease
[00:23:28] <lerneaen_hydra> sounds fun..
[00:23:31] <dmess> and wrist action too..
[00:24:21] <lerman> I would guess that a scraping a grinder is easier than doing a mill.
[00:24:29] <jmkasunich> I wish I could actually see somebody who knows scraping do it
[00:24:37] <dmess> could some one have a look at the last link i posted and let me know what they think??? Has any one seen/tried these before
[00:24:44] <jmkasunich> I learned from a book, and like welding, you can't really learn the strokes from a book
[00:24:44] <lerman> The x and y axis don't have to be perpendicular.
[00:25:05] <lerman> I have a video by a guy named Morgan (I think that's his name).
[00:25:14] <dmess> i learned from a Japanese Toshiba Engineer
[00:25:16] <jmkasunich> Michael Morgan?
[00:25:22] <lerman> Could be....
[00:25:36] <jmkasunich> the guy who collected money for books about 5 years back, and then disappeared without delivering, after some sob story
[00:25:43] <jmkasunich> (he has some of my money)
[00:25:48] <dmess> Sensai Wakhara
[00:27:01] <jmkasunich> I was pleasantly surprised to see that this machine was scraped when new
[00:27:02] <lerman> I'll look for the video. If I find it, I can lend it to you. (Or anyone who would like to borrow it.)
[00:27:41] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich starts on round 14....
[00:27:49] <lerman> Let's build a cnc scraping machine. First you grind the part then the machine goes over the part and puts scrape marks on it. :-)
[00:28:05] <lerneaen_hydra> g'night
[00:28:17] <lerneaen_hydra> good luck jmk
[00:28:18] <dmess> Lagun used to do that
[00:28:45] <lerman> Am I correct that the XY plane doesn't even have to be square to the Z? That seems right because the wheel will get dressed so the edge is square.
[00:29:24] <dmess> are you planning on doing any sidwheeling??
[00:29:46] <dmess> naw still wont matter..
[00:29:53] <dmess> your good
[00:35:41] <jepler> cradek: I moved the switch so that I can probe closer to the actual switch and not at the end of the lever .. it's much more repeatable now
[00:49:56] <cradek> neat
[00:50:28] <dmess> will EMC2 handle a VFD controller??
[00:56:24] <jmkasunich> jepler: for my home switches, I removed the lever and push on the switch "button"
[00:58:40] <SkullWorks_PGAB> dmess: will EMC2 handle a VFD controller?? - sure
[00:59:13] <dmess> skull you know hardware??
[01:00:07] <SkullWorks_PGAB> some - most VFD use a +/- 10V control signal
[01:00:27] <dmess> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330254039921&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123 is this gonna run my hardinge lathe??
[01:01:07] <jmkasunich> dmess: no
[01:01:14] <jmkasunich> not unless Hardinge makes micro-lathes now
[01:01:19] <jmkasunich> 90 oz-in?
[01:01:35] <SkullWorks_PGAB> ouch - there was a thread on cnczone about those.
[01:01:39] <jmkasunich> that is sherline territory
[01:01:43] <dmess> the VFD i have on hunt is an allen bradley... we'll see if it materializes before i waste brain power
[01:02:09] <dmess> but it is a micro lathe... hls 59
[01:02:20] <jmkasunich> can you pick it up with one hand?
[01:02:37] <SkullWorks_PGAB> they were not putting out rated power even for smaller motors.
[01:02:42] <dmess> my lathe???
[01:02:58] <jmkasunich> dmess: yes, your lathe
[01:03:10] <dmess> weighs 750 pounds without the base
[01:03:24] <jmkasunich> then its not a micro lathe ;-)
[01:03:41] <jmkasunich> seriously - NEMA23 motors are NOT for full sized machines
[01:03:44] <dmess> but the slides are just little hardinge slides
[01:04:13] <dmess> i have 2 axes on the cross slide...
[01:04:31] <dmess> the cross slide doesnt move
[01:04:38] <dmess> on the bed
[01:04:51] <dmess> you clamp it on
[01:04:51] <jmkasunich> go measure the handwheel diameter, figure out what weight will give you 90 oz-in (for example, a 4" dia wheel = 2" radius, so 45 oz * 2 in = 90 oz-in
[01:05:11] <jmkasunich> pick a weight about 1/4 that amount - say 12 oz
[01:05:21] <jmkasunich> hang that on a string, wrap the string around the handwheel
[01:05:25] <jmkasunich> does the weight move the wheel?
[01:05:31] <jmkasunich> if no, the motor is too small
[01:05:36] <dmess> 45 oz will spin these handles NO PROBLEM
[01:05:40] <jmkasunich> if yes, the motor _might_ be big enough
[01:05:47] <jmkasunich> I said 1/4 of the rating
[01:05:59] <jmkasunich> holding torque is the absolute max that the motor will do - at speed is is lower
[01:06:07] <jmkasunich> at high speed it is _lots_ lower
[01:06:53] <jmkasunich> anyway, regardless of the specifics, you've just proven why asking that question here is not very usefull
[01:06:57] <dmess> wit 6-8 oz i move the z and about 2x that for the x for some reason.. but i believe someone has played with the gibbs
[01:07:06] <jmkasunich> we don't know how much torque it takes to turn the wheels on a Hardinge 59
[01:08:15] <dmess> my son ( the one whos been gone for a monthe and has a new lathe in his bedroom asked why the x was tight??? asked
[01:09:05] <dmess> within the 1st hour of being home.... ; ) thats my boy....
[01:23:56] <SkullWorks_PGAB> dmess: The relay board might be useful.
[01:28:54] <SkullWorks_PGAB> but Instead of paying $30 plus shipping from Mexico I'd likely buy this http://www.lococnc.com/Relay_Board.htm
[01:33:37] <jymm> what's the relay board going to be used for?
[01:34:53] <dmess> i have 2 of them coming... oh well i'll test drive this one for the team i guess.. for 200 bucks its not the end of the world... ive had good piss ups that cost more than that
[01:35:58] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Get a Widgetmaster router for it.
[01:35:59] <dmess> i 'was' thinkin' 110v motor + brake for 1 board and maybe coolant for 1 of the next
[01:36:21] <dmess> whats that?
[01:36:51] <SkullWorks_PGAB> a Micro router that is beautiful.
[01:37:13] <SkullWorks_PGAB> hmm let me find a pic
[01:37:33] <dmess> im more of a full sized mill kinda guy..
[01:38:42] <dmess> this lathe is a super precision manual 2nd op lathe... i have 2 cross slides they clamp to the dovetail bed
[01:39:12] <dmess> was up in a 5s auction... i couldnt pass it up...
[01:39:25] <dmess> lemme find 1 on e bay
[01:40:44] <SkullWorks_PGAB> http://imagebin.ca/view/bjQyKkz.html
[01:40:46] <dmess> http://cgi.ebay.ca/Hardinge-Model-HSL-59-Precision-Speed-Lathe-1990_W0QQitemZ280246143027QQihZ018QQcategoryZ104241QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:41:56] <jmkasunich> dmess: ok, thats a lot smaller than I thought - maybe NEMA23 is OK
[01:42:07] <jmkasunich> as long as they are strong NEMA23 with good drives
[01:42:26] <dmess> that is a true SPEED lathe slide.. i have 2 dial handles but the same lathe
[01:42:52] <dmess> it has slide handles
[01:42:53] <jmkasunich> the 115V single phase, 1/2HP spindle is what tells me its a small lathe
[01:43:48] <dmess> mine was 575v 3 phase... im gonna switch the motor down to 208v and run it off the dryer plug
[01:44:10] <dmess> you know how to do syuff like that??
[01:44:20] <dmess> stuff
[01:48:36] <dmess> hopefully a VFD will show up next week and the parts will all almost be in the same place at the same time...
[02:12:56] <cradek> When doing bar work on the HNC, A "Loop Tape" is used. ... Following these last blocks of data there must be at least 8 inches of leader before the beginning of the first operation. ...
[02:13:09] <cradek> To make the loop, the two ends of the tape must be glued or spliced together.
[02:15:46] <jepler> I guess we need to add M2.1 "tape ends of program together"
[02:16:21] <cradek> you just use M2 [program stop] instead of M30 [program stop and rewind tape]
[02:16:41] <jepler> hm good point
[02:20:39] <cradek> this has no decimals. you always program all the following zeroes. you can change the 'resolution' (least significant digit) from .0001 to .00002 using an M code
[02:23:59] <jmkasunich> cradek: don't tell me you are going to have TWO CNC machines, both of which are not using EMC
[02:47:33] <jmkasunich> well, 20 rounds of scraping done, and I toasted
[02:47:43] <jmkasunich> 5 or 10 more tomorrow and it should be good
[02:48:11] <jmkasunich> goodnight all
[02:50:23] <SkullWorks_PGAB> for endless loops most controls use M99
[02:50:58] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Its the end of sub - return command.
[02:53:41] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Atleast that is the code used by Haas, Fanuc, and Mazak - does not work on Okuma.
[03:30:59] <cradek> jmkasunich: I really sort of doubt this control is working well. it came with a lot of disclaimers.
[03:31:13] <cradek> the only thing I need to avoid is fixing it
[03:32:35] <rayh> Hi cradek. What control are you dealing with?
[03:32:59] <cradek> it came with a GE 550 monster
[03:33:08] <cradek> not sure if that's the actual model name :-)
[03:33:09] <rayh> Ah. that control.
[03:33:21] <rayh> Is there a U-Stor hanging off the front?
[03:33:33] <cradek> it's not off the trailer yet. maybe if I'm lucky I'll tip it over.
[03:33:45] <cradek> yes U-Stor sounds familiar
[03:34:22] <cradek> I recall seeing a 'mu' - micro symbol
[03:34:39] <cradek> I think it's a tape reader replacement? or maybe there is still a reader behind it.
[03:34:44] <cradek> he was using rs232 somehow.
[03:34:47] <rayh> I had one with a bad memory location near the start. By loading a dummy program I was able to run other later] programs
[03:35:07] <rayh> Drip feed I suspect.
[03:35:29] <rayh> The 550 itself ran directly from tape.
[03:35:47] <cradek> is tooling around for these? I don't have much of anything.
[03:36:31] <cradek> I have 3 little clamps that slide in and have a setscrew on top, that clamp a 3/8 (?) lathe tool to the top of the turret.
[03:36:34] <rayh> Yes. The tool holders that fit to the turret are available but I've not gotten any lately.
[03:36:49] <rayh> That sounds like them.
[03:36:51] <cradek> there's another shape that seems like it would be used for most turning operations
[03:37:01] <cradek> it would have to stick out I think
[03:38:58] <rayh> I've seen quite a few bars that had carbine hanging on the side and a flat where the setscrew fastened them into the holder.
[03:39:36] <cradek> oh like the boring bars that came with my boring head maybe?
[03:40:00] <rayh> The 550 and the box under the spindle end both have some pretty primitive boards.
[03:40:07] <rayh> Exactly
[03:41:00] <rayh> You might talk with MattS about the approach we took to one of these.
[03:41:21] <cradek> yeah it's great that you guys have worked on them
[03:41:24] <rayh> vfds for the spindle and coolant motors.
[03:41:27] <JohnJ> I have two Hardinge HNCs with GE 550 controls I hope to convert to EMC. The micro-stores have weak batteries and only keep a program for a short period of time.
[03:41:38] <cradek> kirk recently did his too...
[03:42:00] <rayh> And JonE's drives and PPMC cards.
[03:42:30] <cradek> I hope to keep the amps - but I don't have any info on them yet. I have schematics for everything (?) else.
[03:42:39] <JohnJ> Not real certain how to approach the spindle drive encoder yet.
[03:42:40] <rayh> right JohnJ. I put a new power supply in the one I used.
[03:42:48] <rayh> On all the time.
[03:43:05] <rayh> I've got several spare amps for these if you need.
[03:43:25] <cradek> slick, thanks for that offer!
[03:43:57] <rayh> The problem with those drives is that they and their power supply are in the bottom of the BIG 550 control.
[03:44:10] <JohnJ> Why reuse the old ones? I'm going to scrap mine or put them on ebay.
[03:44:33] <JohnJ> Yeah not to mention a heavy supply too.
[03:44:45] <cradek> because I assume they're velocity mode amps with tach feedback, well matched to the motors
[03:44:50] <rayh> They do tune really well to the Electro-craft motors.
[03:44:52] <cradek> that seems hard to beat, if they work
[03:44:56] <cradek> also, they are 'free'
[03:45:32] <rayh> The only real problem I had with them was brush dust shorting the motors.
[03:45:47] <JohnJ> They probably are, but if I recall right they use resolvers with the GE 550 controls. I think I remember they do have a tach.
[03:45:49] <rayh> That would take out quite a few of the drive transistors and resistors.
[03:46:31] <rayh> If you pull the covers over the motor end of the ball screws you'll see the feedback package.
[03:46:55] <rayh> Most of those covers I've seen were black.
[03:47:13] <rayh> Some had what looked like cooling fins.
[03:48:04] <rayh> On the feedback package there are both tachs and resolvers sticking out toward you.
[03:48:18] <rayh> Between them is a gear that drives them from the end of the ballscrew.
[03:48:35] <cradek> I have to run - thanks for your expertise rayh - I will read back tomorrow. goodnight!
[03:48:43] <rayh> see you later.
[03:49:01] <JohnJ> Does EMC support resolver feedback?
[03:50:12] <rayh> Not directly.
[03:50:44] <rayh> There are some converters that change a resolver into 1024 pulse quadrature.
[03:50:52] <JohnJ> I thought natively it only supports encoder feedback.
[03:51:25] <JohnJ> Oh, I didn't know any converters exist.
[03:52:54] <rayh> JonE is making one. You might check with him.
[03:52:59] <rayh> for price and all.
[03:55:04] <rayh> night.
[03:55:10] <JohnJ> I very well might do that. The Hardinge already has the tach, resolver, and motor assembly similar to what you were mentioning. It might be a bit of a pain to try replacing the resolver with an encoder in the limited space.
[03:55:41] <JohnJ> Thanks...and night
[10:19:01] <fragalot> Awesome, for the first time in 5 years, irssi closed on me
[10:19:03] <fragalot> >.>
[10:19:13] <fragalot> did any1 get my quit message?
[10:26:53] <archivist> * fragalot has quit (Remote closed the connection)
[10:34:06] <pmbdk> fragalot has left freenode (Remote closed the connection)
[10:37:42] <fragalot> :(
[10:37:45] <fragalot> apparently i ran out of memory
[10:37:52] <alex_joni> 12:48 -!- fragalot [n=thomas@gentoo/user/FamousToaster] has quit [Remote closed
[10:37:53] <alex_joni> the connection]
[10:38:51] <fragalot> 12:00 -!- Irssi: error gmem.c:135: failed to allocate 16392 bytesAborted
[10:38:55] <fragalot> thats what I got at my end :p
[10:39:27] <fragalot> I think joining this channel overflowed my memory limit i've set on my server for all users lol
[10:39:36] <fragalot> (it was worth it!)
[10:56:36] <archivist> now to finally fix,wire and test the lats axis
[10:56:43] <archivist> tast
[10:56:46] <archivist> last
[10:56:57] <archivist> its tyop monday
[11:07:18] <fragalot> :D
[11:35:42] <fragalot> mmph, trying to figure out how i would run 3 steppers from 1 PIC taking the input from the parallel port
[11:41:47] <fragalot> guess i'll just put another entry in the registry to see if the previous step input was already high or not
[14:09:48] <archivist> * archivist mills his first helix 4 axis
[14:12:00] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ will be expecting a video
[14:21:58] <fragalot> * fragalot 2
[14:25:50] <archivist> was just a practice, need to make a worm and wheel for an antique machine
[14:26:44] <archivist> * archivist drinks coffee to celebrate
[14:26:52] <fragalot> we wanted a video anyhow
[14:26:54] <fragalot> :p
[14:27:59] <archivist> fun part was it machined parts for its own Z
[14:28:32] <fragalot> rofl
[14:29:05] <fragalot> I might have my future pet project mill out it's own controller PCB :/
[14:29:26] <archivist> who needs reprap we can do it with metal and EMC
[14:30:03] <fragalot> well.. you can.. EMC apparently doesn't support USB parallel ports, so all of my computers are out of the question :p
[14:30:18] <cradek> it's easy to make a mill with a mill, but the problem is they keep getting smaller each time...
[14:30:26] <archivist> hehe
[14:30:36] <fragalot> cradek: you can make a big mill with a smaller one
[14:30:43] <fragalot> you just need to make them bigger in steps
[14:31:22] <archivist> hang off the table "a bit"
[14:31:32] <fragalot> yeah, thats why they have windows on the sides
[14:31:35] <fragalot> :p
[14:31:58] <archivist> they have sides?
[14:32:07] <fragalot> the ones at work do..
[14:32:12] <fragalot> to keep you dry
[14:32:12] <fragalot> :p
[14:32:26] <fragalot> (altho the top is open, so everything just splashes over from there)
[15:13:21] <fragalot> mm,.. for my PIC based stepper controller.. would i add an X-tal or have it run on its internal 4Mhz clock
[15:30:16] <lerneaen_hydra> fragalot; are you the same person from yesterday?
[15:30:30] <fragalot> yes
[15:30:31] <lerneaen_hydra> building a stepper driver for a small benchtop mill?
[15:30:47] <fragalot> yeah, just finishing up on the schematic
[15:30:55] <lerneaen_hydra> oh nice
[15:31:06] <lerneaen_hydra> I don't see why you would need a crystal
[15:31:08] <fragalot> just figuring out if i need some power resistors for the stepper or not
[15:31:16] <fragalot> :) decided that too ;)
[15:31:24] <lerneaen_hydra> it's not like there's any serial data comms
[15:31:36] <fragalot> nope, just bitbanging
[15:31:50] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, right. lowered supply voltage to the steppers maybe?
[15:32:09] <fragalot> mm, steppers are rated for 12V, and the PSU is 12V..
[15:32:14] <fragalot> so,.. I don't need them?
[15:34:31] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I don't think so, if it's 12V constant and not when running
[15:35:28] <fragalot> computer PSU
[15:36:13] <lerneaen_hydra> uh, if the steppers are rated for 12V constantly, compared to 12V while running, as when they're running the inductance will lower the dissapated power
[15:37:13] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vbWRw/Interface_Controller_1.pdf -- as i said i'm ALMOST done, just imagine that there are freewheel diodes present for the FET's :p
[15:37:30] <jepler> page 2 of this PDF shows why voltages higher than the motor's "rated voltage" are desirable (generally with a current-limiting drive, which is the same as a torque-limiting drive)--it gives more torque when the motor is moving at a particular speed. http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf
[15:37:30] <skunkworks_> your performance will suffer.. (if they are 12v rated steppers and running them on 12v) normally for the best performance you want to current limit the voltage to the steppers at 10-15X rated stepper voltage.
[15:38:02] <skunkworks_> *current limit the voltage? Sort of makes sense.. ;)
[15:38:07] <jepler> but if you only have 12V motors and 12V power supply available, there's nothing you can do
[15:39:05] <lerneaen_hydra> I think he said yesterday that this was supposed to be a super-simple setup, so no chopper driver
[15:39:28] <cradek> super-simplest is 4 transistors driven by 4 parallel port bits
[15:39:47] <fragalot> yes, but then i loose pretty much all outputs :p
[15:39:53] <skunkworks_> been there - done that.... have the mental scars.. ;)
[15:39:58] <cradek> yes it takes all 12
[15:40:06] <cradek> fortunately you can add some more parallel ports if you need more
[15:40:07] <fragalot> i just mocked up a PIC-based thing that uses 6 inputs
[15:40:11] <OoBIGeye> fragalot: use 74ls inverters :)
[15:40:28] <lerneaen_hydra> fragalot; are the mosfets any good with only 5V VGS?
[15:40:34] <fragalot> OoBIGeye: yeah, couldn't find those in multisims database,a ll i care about is the symbol and the footprint ;)
[15:40:42] <fragalot> lerneaen_hydra: logic-level FET's, so yes
[15:40:47] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, nice
[15:40:49] <jepler> cradek: any idea if you still have that program for atmega that converts step pulses to winding activations?
[15:40:51] <fragalot> found out about those about an hour ago
[15:40:51] <fragalot> :p
[15:41:00] <cradek> probably. let me look.
[15:41:20] <jepler> I don't recall whether it's all "C" or whether it's got asm parts for speed -- it might be useful if fragalot is going to do something similar.
[15:42:12] <fragalot> jepler: i've already got a rough idea of how i'll code it, I just need to figure out if i could do microstepping or not, and how that works
[15:42:15] <fragalot> :p
[15:42:25] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/maxnc.c
[15:42:41] <lerneaen_hydra> microstepping seems a bit over the top for a non-chopper drive
[15:42:53] <lerneaen_hydra> half stepping might be good though (IMO)
[15:43:03] <fragalot> :p
[15:43:03] <cradek> you definitely want half stepping
[15:43:08] <fragalot> half it is
[15:43:44] <jepler> oh well, looks like it's fairly specialized to the avr
[15:44:39] <cradek> yeah
[15:45:01] <fragalot> there, before I start making the print, any last-minute changes i should make to the schematic?
[15:46:24] <lerneaen_hydra> if you're feeling wussy then zeners on the gates of the mosfets are good, though it's probably easier to replace them when/if they break
[15:46:32] <lerneaen_hydra> fuses on incoming power?
[15:46:36] <lerneaen_hydra> decoupling caps?
[15:46:44] <cradek> replace pic with avr? :-)
[15:46:50] <lerneaen_hydra> definetly
[15:46:57] <fragalot> lerneaen_hydra: those are external to the PCB
[15:47:02] <lerneaen_hydra> oh ok
[15:47:43] <cradek> provision for separate (higher) power supply for the motors
[15:48:11] <fragalot> cradek: cradek that would just mean hooking up a higher voltage, no real need for a seperate one
[15:48:31] <fragalot> this circuit should run just fine for anywhere from 8V to 30V
[15:48:40] <cradek> fragalot: until your 7805 overheats
[15:48:49] <fragalot> point taken
[15:49:37] <fragalot> at 30volts or so it'd be dissipating ~6Watts :/
[15:50:05] <fragalot> owell, thats why god invented the heatsink
[15:50:06] <fragalot> :p
[15:50:08] <cradek> might be nice to be able to do 7-10 in for logic supply, and separately 30-40 for the motors
[15:50:26] <cradek> it could be a simple matter of cutting traces later though.
[15:50:30] <fragalot> yeah, but that would require getting yet another supply, etc..
[15:50:40] <cradek> yes
[15:50:48] <jepler> cradek: seems unlikely to have a non-chopper, no-ballast-resistor drive that will use 40V supply, though
[15:50:58] <fragalot> right now i plan on getting a cheap lil' intel board with parallel port, etc... and hook this up to the same PSU, if that would work.. :p
[15:51:20] <cradek> yes you would have to add ballasts
[15:51:37] <fragalot> adding ballasts isn't exactly the hardest thing to add later on
[15:52:11] <cradek> yes I suggest thinking about how you will do that (because I'm almost certain you will end up wanting to)
[15:52:45] <fragalot> simple. connect ballast in series with the 2 respective lines
[15:53:29] <jepler> I don't understand the purpose of the diodes on the PIC inputs e.g., to pin 2
[15:54:10] <fragalot> to keep me from sendi.... good point
[15:54:32] <jepler> after the capacitor C7 is charged by current from U4A through R12 and D5, C7 will stay at a "logic high" voltage for a long time; not much current will be drawn when PIC pin 2 is being used as an input
[15:56:36] <jepler> it also looks like you've got 'Vdd's going to the PIC on pins 11 and 32
[15:56:55] <fragalot> naming mistake, it's 5V
[15:57:10] <fragalot> (look at the lil' ICD2 part near the top)
[15:57:12] <jepler> In "power section", I see VDD on the input side of the regulator and VCC on the output side..
[15:57:26] <fragalot> I just throw naming conventions overboard
[15:57:28] <fragalot> a lot
[15:57:28] <fragalot> :p
[15:58:01] <fragalot> so, removed the diodes going to PIC, what else?
[15:58:54] <jepler> the grounding of the dsub connector looks fishy -- are the other items you grounded unused inputs to the PC?
[15:59:34] <fragalot> those pins are all GND
[15:59:47] <fragalot> parallel port has GND from pin 18 to 25
[16:00:34] <jepler> in that case, you need to double-check all the pin numbering
[16:00:46] <jepler> 1-13 run on one row of the connector, and 14-25 on the other row.
[16:01:04] <fragalot> craptastic >.>
[16:01:25] <fragalot> thx for reminding me of that "small" mistake
[16:02:38] <jepler> here's the symbol from the circuit board program I usually use: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/db25.png
[16:03:31] <fragalot> yeah,.. :(
[16:03:39] <fragalot> *starts over*
[16:04:58] <fragalot> and what was that about the capacitor for pin 2 on the PIC?
[16:05:01] <fragalot> ditch it?
[16:05:21] <fragalot> and what about the resistor (I just basically copied that from an existing DIY circuit by somebody else)
[16:10:50] <fragalot> fixed the parallel port
[16:18:24] <jepler> if it's supposed to be an RC network to filter the step and direction signals, I think it's more typical to put that before the inverter/buffer. that's how this other board with step+direction inputs does it: http://www.pminmo.com/l297-8/L297_8HVschematic.pdf
[16:19:45] <fragalot> *looks*
[16:23:40] <fragalot> sorted then
[16:35:40] <fragalot> lol too late again to fetch parts
[16:48:39] <anonimasu_> cradek: are verlocity mode amps better then normal ones?
[16:48:44] <anonimasu_> cradek: ones without feedback
[16:50:18] <cradek> anonimasu_: for low speeds yes I think they are much better. think of shallow taper turning on a lathe. a position loop will have to step at the encoder resolution.
[16:50:56] <cradek> but they are also 30 years old. you have to take that reliability into account I guess.
[16:50:57] <alex_joni> right
[16:50:57] <anonimasu_> I've got tachos for my mill motors..
[16:51:14] <cradek> also beware that I'm no expert.
[16:51:17] <anonimasu_> and im pondering if I should buy amps off jone to use the tach..
[16:51:42] <anonimasu_> ofcourse mount a encoder too(they have the motor shaft sticking out)
[16:52:12] <cradek> on any retrofit I guess it's hard to decide how much of the old setup to use. this is another one of those decisions where there's no 100% right answer
[16:52:24] <anonimasu_> well, I have new motors..
[16:52:25] <anonimasu_> :)
[16:52:27] <anonimasu_> with tachos..
[16:53:28] <anonimasu_> do I use them?
[16:53:30] <anonimasu_> (no amps yet)
[16:54:01] <rayh> IMO I would use the tach feedback.
[16:54:08] <alex_joni> anonimasu_: motor-tach + encoder is the way to go
[16:54:16] <anonimasu_> hm.. can you explain why?
[16:54:17] <alex_joni> unless you have motor-resolver combos
[16:54:21] <rayh> Makes tuning EMC to them much easier.
[16:54:22] <fragalot> for a desktop sized mill, with ~170mm travel, using an M6 lead screw, what would the minimal torque be (basically just PCB's and simple engraving, no heavy parts)
[16:55:01] <alex_joni> anonimasu_: you need the encoder for position control
[16:55:15] <lerneaen_hydra> i think that will depend on what type of ways you have
[16:55:16] <alex_joni> and tach will give you much better tuning especially at low speeds and during accel phases
[16:55:16] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: yeah, I know that already, but the tach?
[16:55:31] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: hmm.. where it matters
[16:55:34] <alex_joni> right
[16:55:47] <alex_joni> during regular feeds you can do without the tach
[16:55:58] <alex_joni> but at slow speeds it's much more stable with
[16:55:58] <anonimasu_> I've always found it odd that most comercial machines use tach feedback
[16:56:09] <alex_joni> at least they used to
[16:56:17] <alex_joni> nowadays you can use a resolver for both things
[16:56:30] <anonimasu_> nowdays the controls themselves are digital :)
[16:56:35] <alex_joni> right
[16:57:05] <anonimasu_> but if you look at jon elson's drives with tach feedback?
[16:57:45] <alex_joni> what if I don't?
[16:57:45] <alex_joni> :P
[16:58:10] <anonimasu_> I dont quite get what you mean with use one at low speed.. do you wire them up to emc both.. or do you just use velocity mode amps?
[16:58:29] <rayh> just use velocity mode amps
[16:58:40] <anonimasu_> ah ok
[16:59:44] <alex_joni> anonimasu_: you mean this? http://pico-systems.com/servo.html
[17:01:03] <anonimasu_> yeah
[17:02:12] <fragalot> "This amplifier takes in a +/- 10 Volt analog velocity command from the CNC control" -- analog.. over the parallel port? or am i confusing things here
[17:02:46] <anonimasu_> uh.. no you use a analog output card like a motenc
[17:03:07] <anonimasu_> err motenc lite or the mesa cards
[17:03:19] <alex_joni> or the stg :)
[17:03:43] <anonimasu_> yep
[17:07:01] <archivist> having run x whole revs on my A axis how can I reset to 0 without rotating A
[17:11:26] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vbWVi/Interface_Controller_1.pdf revised design on my controller, are there any mistakes remaining
[17:28:42] <alex_joni> archivist: you can use touch-off
[17:29:46] <fragalot> last.fm just went sideways :<
[17:35:04] <fragalot> http://omploader.org/vbWVl/Interface_Controller_1.pdf hopefully the last update?
[17:48:53] <lerneaen_hydra> fragalot; do the inverters go to vcc?
[17:49:39] <lerneaen_hydra> it may be a good idea to have a series resistance before the capacitor to give a simple low-pass filtering
[17:49:46] <lerneaen_hydra> if you haven't considered it
[17:52:36] <fragalot> lerneaen_hydra: 5V
[17:52:44] <lerneaen_hydra> oh from the 7805?
[17:52:52] <fragalot> yes
[17:54:09] <fragalot> lerneaen_hydra: 74HC14 is the inverter that i'll use, not the one listed on the CCT
[17:54:35] <fragalot> and i found another mistake,.. a missing line from one of the caps to GND,.. w ell.. my dad did
[17:54:38] <fragalot> :p
[17:55:04] <fragalot> lerneaen_hydra: and, which capacitor
[17:55:21] <gefink> Has anyone tried to send UDP-networkpackages from a realtime comp file?
[17:59:13] <lerneaen_hydra> fragalot; the buffer capacitors before the inverters
[17:59:47] <lerneaen_hydra> they won't do much good as the switches usually have very low impedance
[17:59:49] <fragalot> ah yes
[17:59:59] <lerneaen_hydra> though I'm not sure if you need a lowpass function
[18:00:12] <fragalot> well that part is for the limit switches
[18:00:13] <fragalot> correct?
[18:01:06] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[18:01:32] <fragalot> I see
[18:02:36] <gefink> i cant include <sys/socket.h> and get errors with <linux/sock.h>
[18:02:44] <fragalot> well then, guess i'll put a 1k in series there
[18:03:14] <lerneaen_hydra> uh, depending on how much you like math you can find the rise time for a given pole position (if you
[18:03:33] <fragalot> I don't.
[18:03:34] <fragalot> =)
[18:03:36] <lerneaen_hydra> 've done basic filter design and linear systems and transforms yet)
[18:03:51] <fragalot> well, basically let me put it like this
[18:04:09] <fragalot> the furthest i've gotten to in school sofar are basic resistors, BJT's, and diodes
[18:04:19] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, done bode plots?
[18:04:19] <fragalot> the rest is just out of curiosity and interrest that i know
[18:04:31] <fragalot> "bode plots?" (you may assume not :p)
[18:04:41] <jepler> gefink: you can't use networking APIs from HAL realtime components. You might be able to find a way that does not give compile or link errors, but if you do you are losing guarantees of real-time execution.
[18:05:13] <lerneaen_hydra> the behavior of a linear system's response to different frequencies, a lowpass filter for example will let through low frequencies and block higher
[18:05:26] <jepler> gefink: there is RT-NET which in principle you can use while keeping real-time execution but I don't know of anyone who has provided instructions on how to use that successfully in a HAL realtime component.
[18:06:00] <gefink> jepler: yes. that i thought
[18:06:03] <fragalot> lerneaen_hydra: in that case, not in detail,.. only that a speedup-capacitor helps switching at higher freqs for BJT's, but not how to figure out what values, or when its needed, without trial&error
[18:06:21] <lerneaen_hydra> oh ok
[18:06:38] <fragalot> basically pretty much all the values in my CCT are wild guesses
[18:06:48] <fragalot> or suggestions from others =/
[18:06:53] <gefink> jepler: if so i can try things like halsampler...
[18:07:52] <gefink> RT-NET is to hard to implement it with my small AVR rhernetdevive
[18:08:34] <lerneaen_hydra> fragalot; the rise time will in any case be approx. 0.35/(1/(resistor*capacitor)/(2*pi))
[18:08:38] <lerneaen_hydra> that's in seconds
[18:08:49] <lerneaen_hydra> with 1k and 100n that's about 200µS
[18:09:16] <lerneaen_hydra> to go from 0 to 1V
[18:09:19] <lerneaen_hydra> I think... :p
[18:09:22] <fragalot> lol
[18:10:41] <fragalot> so.. uhm
[18:10:57] <fragalot> too high values? :p
[18:11:21] <lerneaen_hydra> maybe a little
[18:11:33] <lerneaen_hydra> maybe 100µs for 0-5 volts would be good?
[18:11:41] <fragalot> that'd do
[18:11:48] <lerneaen_hydra> proabably just a matter of trail and error so there
[18:11:55] <fragalot> ^ lol
[18:11:55] <lerneaen_hydra> 's no noticable bounce
[18:11:58] <fragalot> thats the answer to everything
[18:12:40] <lerneaen_hydra> hehe yep
[18:14:38] <fragalot> so, the PCB itself is approved?
[18:14:42] <fragalot> well, CCT
[18:14:51] <lerneaen_hydra> cct?
[18:14:56] <fragalot> circuit
[18:15:16] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[18:15:25] <lerneaen_hydra> you might have to adjust some values
[18:15:30] <lerneaen_hydra> how fast do you plan on running?
[18:15:40] <lerneaen_hydra> mosfet drivers may be worth looking into
[18:15:44] <fragalot> doubt it 'l be speedy, :p
[18:15:53] <fragalot> lerneaen_hydra: these are logic-level ones, they have built-in drivers
[18:16:17] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[18:16:22] <fragalot> (which is why i'm not sure that i was told to add resistor values there, but meh, can just bridge them on the pcb afterwards)
[18:16:24] <lerneaen_hydra> why the 100 ohm resistor?
[18:16:37] <lerneaen_hydra> usually you only use those if there's no driver
[18:16:38] <fragalot> nfc, was told to have it there, lol
[18:16:48] <lerneaen_hydra> so there's an integrated npn/pnp driver?
[18:17:14] <fragalot> thats what most of the forum messages i've come upon when googling said
[18:17:51] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm not according to the datasheet
[18:18:12] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irlz44npbf.pdf
[18:19:33] <fragalot> mmph :(
[18:20:09] <fragalot> http://ohmark.co.nz/3step/hardware/3Step%20schematic%20-%20full.pdf <-- approx the same connections as mine (used this as a base design :p) and,.. well for him it worked
[18:20:20] <lerneaen_hydra> do you know how fast you want to drive it?
[18:20:24] <lerneaen_hydra> steps/second
[18:20:28] <Roguish_> hey all.... what signal or pin initiates an axis to home?
[18:20:33] <fragalot> no idea how fast i CAN drive it
[18:21:09] <lerneaen_hydra> then again as this isn't a chopper driver you won't be able to go all that fast
[18:21:20] <fragalot> likely
[18:21:21] <lerneaen_hydra> are you etching this at home?
[18:21:25] <lerneaen_hydra> or ordering it?
[18:21:26] <fragalot> no, store
[18:21:47] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I'd probably add pads for a mosfet driver and bridge them to begin with
[18:21:50] <fragalot> if i could i'd make this on a breadboard, and have it mill out it's own PCB :p
[18:21:58] <lerneaen_hydra> hehe
[18:22:26] <jepler> Roguish_: an NML message is sent to home an axis. This message is only obeyed when the machine is in manual mode. You can send this NML message from halui based on the rising edge of a signal -- refer to the halui manpage for the pin name.
[18:24:35] <fragalot> lerneaen_hydra: k, i'll add the drivers
[18:24:45] <lerneaen_hydra> http://export.farnell.com/1549140/semiconductors-integrated-circuits/product.us0?sku=zetex-zxgd3003e6ta&_requestid=394240 <-- I like this one, it's pretty good (read: cheap)
[18:24:57] <fragalot> sold.
[18:24:58] <fragalot> :p
[18:25:07] <lerneaen_hydra> you'll need one per mosfet
[18:25:08] <Roguish_> Jepler, thanks. so it homing by joint? halui.joint.0.home ?
[18:25:16] <lerneaen_hydra> and ideally an npn with a pullup
[18:25:19] <fragalot> awesome. that gave me a page where I have to select a country?
[18:25:22] <lerneaen_hydra> do drive it in turn :p
[18:25:36] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, go to farnell and search for ZXGD3003E6TA
[18:25:41] <lerneaen_hydra> it's surface mount though fwiw
[18:25:51] <fragalot> k
[18:26:51] <jepler> Roguish_: if that's what the manual says I bet it's right
[18:26:55] <fragalot> fancy, 5A peak
[18:26:55] <fragalot> :p
[18:27:01] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, damn good
[18:27:14] <lerneaen_hydra> ideally you'd drive it with an npn bjt and a pullup
[18:27:18] <fragalot> lerneaen_hydra: could I have it drive a normal 12V, and trigger its input with 5?
[18:27:21] <lerneaen_hydra> though that's adding quite a lot of components
[18:27:28] <lerneaen_hydra> it's output voltage is = input
[18:27:38] <lerneaen_hydra> but it's got near to no input capacitance
[18:27:40] <fragalot> there is Vdd input, and the trigger?
[18:28:26] <lerneaen_hydra> uh, it's got vdd, gnd, output and input, the output voltage is kept to the input voltage
[18:29:00] <fragalot> lame :p
[18:29:08] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah but they're cheap :p
[18:29:15] <fragalot> true
[18:29:27] <fragalot> how fast do you reckon i could step with this thingy
[18:29:43] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, the mosfets will turn on in under 50ns
[18:29:50] <lerneaen_hydra> so it's all up to the stepper
[18:30:10] <fragalot> the stepper motor turns 0.9° per halfstep, lol
[18:30:39] <fragalot> it's going to be one *SLOW* machine.. (1 step would be approx.. .0025mm)
[18:30:48] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[18:31:32] <lerneaen_hydra> you should probably be able to do 1-2 rps at least though (though I'm pulling this number out of my ass)
[18:31:40] <fragalot> haha
[18:31:53] <fragalot> so thats ~2mm per second
[18:32:07] <lerneaen_hydra> with an M6 leadscrew and no transmission that's 60-120mm/min
[18:32:09] <fragalot> rofl i could probably just mill stuff out using only G00
[18:32:19] <lerneaen_hydra> most likely ;)
[18:32:24] <fragalot> xD
[18:32:48] <fragalot> .me finds a less 'accurate' stepper
[18:33:11] <anonimasu_> 1.8 degrees per step is fairly standard
[18:33:29] <fragalot> yeah
[18:33:51] <lerneaen_hydra> 5° per step is common for unipolars though
[18:34:23] <fragalot> y'know, i'll likely spend quite a bit on this making my PCB myself,.. which controller do you guys recommend thats affordable, lol
[18:35:11] <anonimasu_> I dont know about anything affordable with mid band resonance compensation
[18:35:15] <lerneaen_hydra> one you can just buy?
[18:35:23] <fragalot> lerneaen_hydra: lol, yeah
[18:35:45] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu_; as his current one isn't even a chopper i doublt midband resonance is an issue :p
[18:36:13] <anonimasu_> heh
[18:36:22] <fragalot> to the best of my knowledge, a chopper is a bike, ... care to clarify that part? :p
[18:36:57] <lerneaen_hydra> haha, a chopper driver
[18:37:20] <fragalot> http://www.magnetron.ch/products/Chopper_Driver_e.html
[18:37:22] <fragalot> like that?
[18:37:28] <lerneaen_hydra> it applied a large voltage, maybe 50V in your case, which ramps up the current quickly, then it switches the power on and off and keeps a constant current
[18:37:49] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[18:37:55] <lerneaen_hydra> though that's bipolar
[18:38:24] <fragalot> well I don't have the steppers yet,.. hell i still need to get my rails & plumbing to make the machine itself :p
[18:38:39] <fragalot> (yes, i'll make the frame out of plumbing pipes)
[18:39:10] <lerneaen_hydra> haha, ok
[18:39:13] <lerneaen_hydra> sounds nice and true
[18:39:28] <fragalot> :D
[18:39:39] <fragalot> http://www.hobbycnc.com/products/hobbycnc-pro-chopper-driver-board-kits/
[18:39:41] <fragalot> well hello?
[18:40:45] <lerneaen_hydra> sounds nice
[18:40:49] <jepler> how many wires are actually on the motors you have?
[18:41:05] <fragalot> jepler: I don't have any yet, but i'm assuming 6
[18:41:20] <jepler> you're aware that if it's 6, you can use them with either unipolar or bipolar, right?
[18:41:28] <fragalot> Nope
[18:41:30] <fragalot> :)
[18:41:54] <fragalot> the end goal of this project is to a) have fun with it afterwards b) learn more about steppers & other stuff
[18:42:08] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler; oh, nice, that's pretty slick actually, never thought of that before
[18:42:27] <cradek> 6 or 8
[18:42:46] <jepler> 4, 6, 8 wires work with bipolar. 5, 6, 8 work with unipolar. 6, 8 work with both.
[18:42:52] <lerneaen_hydra> 8?
[18:43:04] <lerneaen_hydra> 4 taps per winding?
[18:43:11] <cradek> yes center tap split
[18:43:24] <cradek> (lets you put the coils parallel)
[18:43:31] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, right!
[18:43:32] <lerneaen_hydra> nice
[18:43:41] <jepler> page 8 of this pdf shows how to connect 6-wire steppers to a bipolar driver (2 wires, the "center taps", are left unconnected): http://www.xylotex.com/XS3525V202.pdf
[18:44:05] <fragalot> *reads & bookmarks*
[18:44:57] <fragalot> anyways, reckon that that hobbycnc thing would work?
[18:45:57] <jepler> (incidentally the xylotex.com board works nicely on my machine with a 24V supply, but my motors' ratings are very different from yours: 3.5V, 1.5A)
[18:46:02] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c needs to finish his hobby cnc board, it's only been about a year
[18:46:14] <fragalot> jepler: I don't have motors yet, I just assumed i'd get a certain set i found on the web
[18:46:18] <fragalot> :p
[18:46:35] <jepler> 4218l-
[18:46:50] <jepler> oops
[18:47:01] <alex_joni> http://www.hobbycnc.com/products/hobbycnc-ez-driver-board-packages/
[18:47:08] <fragalot> Spring Sale $410.00 CLICK for details
[18:47:20] <fragalot> ^above my intended price range ;)
[18:48:03] <fragalot> alex_joni: yer i was just looking at that one :)
[18:48:39] <fragalot> tahts approx 150 euro.. and its a lot better than what I tried to pull off
[18:49:02] <jepler> incidentally I bet this is the stepper motor that is on my machine: http://www.alltronics.com/cgi-bin/item/28M034/55/Lin-Engineering-4218L-01-11-bipolar-stepper-motor -- NEMA 17 is physically smaller than the most common motor size you see on small milling machines like sherlines
[18:49:05] <fragalot> well tomorrow i'll figure out how much the construction itself will cost, and see if i have that
[18:50:33] <jepler> the machine is fairly light (plastic construction), the screws are 1/20 inch/rev (1.27mm per turn), and I get 72in/min rapids (1800 mm/min) http://axis.unpy.net/01188441458
[18:51:10] <fragalot> poor cd
[18:51:11] <fragalot> :p
[18:51:30] <fragalot> yeah thats about the size of machine i wanted to make
[18:51:54] <fragalot> but for me it'd be the table that moves X-Y wise and not the tool holder
[18:53:12] <alex_joni> good night all
[18:53:48] <fragalot> gnite alex_joni
[18:54:16] <jepler> wow -- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190238620400 -- it seems the guy's newer model does 800in/min (20000 mm/min) rapids
[18:54:46] <fragalot> scary for that lil' bugger
[18:54:47] <fragalot> :p
[18:54:51] <alex_joni> jepler: a guy is asking if stippler still runs on hardy
[18:54:56] <jepler> alex_joni: nfc
[18:55:06] <jepler> I haven't used it in years
[18:55:36] <alex_joni> well.. you still have a userbase to support out there
[18:55:54] <jepler> 800 inch/min would be .6 seconds from the front of the table to the back.
[18:56:23] <skunkworks_> it is probably the color that does it..
[18:57:23] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler; is the zenbot made from HDPE?
[18:57:50] <jepler> I bet you can't even hit 800 in/min in 4 inches. (then slow down to a stop in the remaining 4 inches)
[18:57:57] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: I'm not sure which plastic it is
[18:58:09] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[18:58:59] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c needs a 1 3/8" x 5/8" motor coupler for .187" to .250" with 2 set screws on each end (Brass, SS, CRS...)
[18:59:40] <cradek> jepler: do you see that the motors are now mounted at right angles somehow?
[18:59:48] <chr0n1c> anyone with a decent lathe in the us?
[19:00:05] <fragalot> silly inchies
[19:00:06] <fragalot> :p
[19:00:23] <jepler> cradek: yeah, the text talks about some kind of belt .. I assume he's increasing the RPM at the screw
[19:00:43] <jepler> (which seems backwards from the usual, decreasing RPM to get more torque)
[19:00:55] <jepler> but right angle + belt I don't quite get
[19:01:04] <fragalot> jepler: http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-Build-Desk-Top-3-Axis-CNC-Milling-Machine/ it's this thing i'm planning on building
[19:01:51] <fragalot> might use plastic for the frame aswell, not sure yet
[19:01:51] <cradek> jepler: same
[19:01:55] <fragalot> i'll see what I can find
[19:03:40] <fenn> how can they seriously call that thing a milling machine
[19:03:48] <fragalot> lol
[19:03:51] <alex_joni> jepler: sounds like a plasma table design
[19:03:59] <fenn> at least be honest and say 'etching'
[19:04:02] <alex_joni> motor at 90 degrees
[19:04:15] <alex_joni> belt is over the motor shaft
[19:04:20] <alex_joni> belt moves the carriage
[19:04:23] <jepler> not a leadscrew, but a belt?
[19:04:25] <fragalot> fenn: it might not be the most accurate ever, but it can do what others can!... just... a lot.. slower..
[19:04:27] <alex_joni> right
[19:04:28] <fragalot> :p
[19:04:33] <alex_joni> no more leadscrew..
[19:04:41] <jepler> that's crazy talk
[19:04:51] <alex_joni> lots faster, but lots less accurate
[19:04:52] <cradek> drive system is all new as well, featuring kevlar-reinforced urethane timing belts on all 3 axes
[19:05:03] <cradek> hey it's there in the text
[19:05:08] <fenn> fragalot: wrong, it can't do the same because it's not rigid enough to take the minimum sized cut
[19:05:17] <anonimasu_> :/
[19:05:32] <alex_joni> cradek: right
[19:05:34] <anonimasu_> rigidity is everything when it comes down to how well a machine works
[19:05:40] <anonimasu_> well, very very much of it.
[19:05:43] <alex_joni> well.. I was off to bed :)
[19:05:46] <jepler> alex_joni: this is used on plasma machines?
[19:06:04] <alex_joni> jepler: you can't do screws in sizes up to 3-4m long
[19:06:14] <fragalot> fenn: well then, find me something else thats as easy as this one to build (or a full system for under 350 euro :p)
[19:06:15] <alex_joni> or actually you can .. but they tend to get really big
[19:06:16] <jepler> alex_joni: oh sure you can
[19:06:23] <alex_joni> or they will warp
[19:06:24] <jepler> cradek: what's the name of stuart's crazy big machine?
[19:06:36] <cradek> it's a G&L horizontal boring mill
[19:06:38] <jepler> 8" diameter, 100" length leadscrew or something
[19:06:40] <alex_joni> jepler: the biggest screw driven thing was a robot table I saw once
[19:06:41] <fenn> fragalot: if you're just doing PCB's and nothing else, then it should be fine
[19:06:46] <alex_joni> it was about 20m long
[19:06:56] <alex_joni> maybe 10" diameter
[19:06:57] <fenn> fragalot: but i think the stepper motor as thrust bearing will give you hell with backlash
[19:06:59] <fragalot> fenn: might make some small 3D decorations on wood
[19:07:08] <alex_joni> it was used to tilt a table for 4.5t parts
[19:07:23] <cradek> fenn: some motors have a spring to them and it actually works ok.
[19:07:25] <alex_joni> the table was maybe 30-40m long (so 100 feet .. if my math is right)
[19:07:27] <fenn> fragalot: at least step up to ball bearing drawer slides
[19:07:51] <cradek> depends a lot on the motor I'm sure.
[19:07:58] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is gone
[19:08:27] <fragalot> fenn: could do that
[19:09:24] <jepler> "As shown in Figure 3 on Page 2, the belt 60° tooth profile limits the backlash factor to a maximum of approximately 0.003" per tooth engaged, and substantially reduces the backlash accumulation factor." http://www.chemiflex.com/technical_data/tb3000_1.htm (they're hawking special pulleys that reduce backlash from .007"/engaged tooth)
[19:09:52] <jepler> .003 inch * (half the teeth around the pulley) is a huge amount of backlash
[19:10:25] <jepler> er I guess it's their belt which is different, not the pulley
[19:10:32] <jepler> but either way that's a lot of backlash
[19:10:45] <anonimasu_> ouch
[19:10:45] <anonimasu_> yeah
[19:10:51] <fenn> the proper way to do it is to use round tooth belts/pulleys
[19:11:03] <fenn> using the wrong angle will just cause a lot of belt wear
[19:13:52] <jepler> first place I found it is under six bucks a 20" belt so it's not expensive .. but it does cost a fair bit more than cheap threaded rod which is what's on his older machines
[19:18:31] <rayh> re that belt backlash that site concludes that
[19:18:35] <rayh> In addition, the installation and operating tension of the belt tends to deform the belt tooth down into the pulley tooth. This additional benefit essentially eliminates backlash completely (degree of backlash will change in proportion to tension).
[19:19:07] <jepler> I admit it, I stopped reading as soon as I saw ".003 per tooth engaged" :-P
[19:19:50] <anonimasu_> hm.. spring loaded tensioner..
[19:19:52] <rayh> np. I just couldn't believe that I might have .07 backlash
[19:20:13] <rayh> on my grizzly
[19:20:16] <anonimasu_> 1.778mm :p
[19:36:38] <cradek> .07 inch?
[19:37:48] <ds2> 0.070 isn't completely horrible for a manual machine
[19:37:55] <ds2> just never climb cut ;)
[19:38:16] <cradek> yeah it would be fine if you were careful.
[19:38:23] <rayh> This was my first cnc conversion.
[19:38:30] <cradek> it's not even a full turn of the wheel :-)
[19:38:57] <fragalot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RctndyASLzY&NR=1 is it me, or would this machine break down fairly quickly with those lines dangling along across the table the minute you hook up a piece that pokes up fairly high & jog away from it
[19:39:12] <ds2> * ds2 scrolls back to find out if it is a lathe or a mill
[19:39:21] <rayh> mill
[19:39:27] <cradek> even with my worn out ballscrew machine I can place things within .001-002. we're all spoiled.
[19:40:25] <fragalot> I remember the old manual lathes at my highschool...
[19:40:50] <fragalot> one tossed its clutch over my shoulder, and the others had a ~3mm play on the handles
[19:41:37] <rayh> I'm thinking that what they are talking about is slip between the belt and the pulley that drives it.
[19:42:16] <rayh> So to see what the real lash is you have to figure diameter of the pulley and then angle of lash.
[19:42:53] <fragalot> pretty much comes down to the same in the end. it's got too much play
[19:43:17] <rayh> Not at all. I know of many commercial machine tools that use belts.
[19:43:59] <fragalot> ofcourse, I just mean, whatever transmission you use, you end up having too much play for modern standards
[19:44:13] <fragalot> they just electronically make up for it more & more lately
[19:44:43] <rayh> I see.
[19:45:29] <fragalot> if it were up to the clients pieces had to be accurate within 0.001mm, which is just plain silly
[19:46:03] <fragalot> *continues on sketching out his own model for the mill*
[19:54:17] <anonimasu_> :)
[19:54:23] <anonimasu_> that happens
[19:54:24] <anonimasu_> :)
[19:55:12] <anonimasu_> im stuck on cnc videos :/
[19:55:49] <fragalot> same, lol
[19:55:58] <fragalot> owell, atleast i got a basic sketch of how i'll make it..
[19:56:04] <fragalot> y'know, the type without measurements or thought behind it
[19:56:05] <fragalot> :p
[19:56:31] <anonimasu_> ^_^
[19:56:44] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ sighs
[19:56:52] <anonimasu_> I might be stuck until tomorrow watching nice machining
[19:56:56] <fragalot> like,.. if it were in scale, my Y axis would be approx 2cm away from the X+ limit
[19:58:55] <fragalot> lol, 22 bearings in this lil' package.. sofar
[20:01:18] <fragalot> is there any perticular reason that on everybodies DIY design, the tool moves if you move the Y-axis, instead of the table?
[20:02:01] <chr0n1c> hmm.. my z axis only moves up and down
[20:02:14] <chr0n1c> ** like a bridgeport
[20:02:24] <fragalot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvOFhNmsZSU&feature=related
[20:02:27] <fragalot> stuff like this one
[20:02:43] <fragalot> somehow lots of the DIY designs are like that
[20:02:49] <chr0n1c> yeah.. y is usually less weight, and less trave i assume...
[20:02:55] <chr0n1c> travel**
[20:03:00] <fragalot> ah, yeah
[20:03:06] <fragalot> takes up less space
[20:03:31] <fragalot> somebody make me one and send it over, lol
[20:03:45] <chr0n1c> my x/y are move as one unit and z is on a post above
[20:03:55] <chr0n1c> -are
[20:03:57] <fragalot> yeah thats how my lil' sketch works
[20:04:03] <fragalot> problem is.. lots of wasted space
[20:04:41] <chr0n1c> hmm...
[20:07:34] <fragalot> also, where the f*ck does everybody get those plexi plates
[20:07:37] <fragalot> plastic
[20:07:43] <anonimasu_> uh.. white plastic?
[20:07:50] <fragalot> yes
[20:07:51] <chr0n1c> cutting boards
[20:07:59] <chr0n1c> nylon**
[20:08:01] <anonimasu_> or they order it..
[20:08:02] <anonimasu_> acetal..
[20:08:04] <fragalot> I can't find that anywhere here :p
[20:08:10] <anonimasu_> acetal/delerin
[20:08:13] <chr0n1c> dolla sto'
[20:08:27] <anonimasu_> acetal is not cheap.
[20:08:33] <chr0n1c> uhh, i mean the dollar store
[20:08:36] <anonimasu_> cutting boards are probably cheaper..
[20:08:46] <fragalot> don't have a "dollar store" here, and cut which boards
[20:09:22] <chr0n1c> i've seen the nylon cutting boards on ebay
[20:09:29] <chr0n1c> i mean eb*y
[20:09:41] <fragalot> lol
[20:09:47] <SkinnYPup> you can find uhmw reasonably on fleebay
[20:11:34] <fragalot> http://cgi.ebay.com/DAEWOO-CNC-LATHE-ONLY-21-HRS_W0QQitemZ280246374881QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280246374881&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318 -- .. we have this thing at work,... it's a NIGHTMARE to work on if something breaks down
[20:12:08] <anonimasu_> :/
[20:12:26] <fragalot> damn ebay grabbing my attention to things that i don't want
[20:12:27] <fragalot> lol
[20:12:47] <anonimasu_> now if only shipping werent so damn expensive.
[20:13:29] <fragalot> yeah, last time I paid ~650 euro on a free server I got from a friend
[20:13:40] <fragalot> * fragalot curses customs
[20:14:31] <anonimasu_> fragalot: where are you from
[20:14:32] <anonimasu_> ?
[20:14:35] <fragalot> belgium
[20:14:40] <anonimasu_> ah I see
[20:15:28] <fragalot> * fragalot scraps his current design and starts on another, probably better one
[20:23:13] <micges> hello all
[20:23:49] <fragalot> hey
[20:32:34] <micges> I have code that loads DXF files and generate gcode from it
[20:33:01] <micges> It is free and I want to emc have it
[20:33:46] <micges> LINE ARC POLYLINE CIRCLE LWPOLYLINE supported
[20:34:54] <fragalot> I think that DXF is already supported by emc2.. isn't it? (correct me if i'm wrong)
[20:35:02] <fragalot> ah,.. it's on the request page, nvm :p
[20:35:04] <anonimasu_> no it's not
[20:35:19] <chr0n1c> i put that request there... :|
[20:35:29] <chr0n1c> that code sounds sexy
[20:35:32] <fragalot> lol yeah :p
[20:35:40] <anonimasu_> now give me iges :p
[20:36:00] <micges> I wrote that code
[20:36:01] <fragalot> y'know, it sucks how most DIY CNC machines actually... require CNC machines to get build (or the manual equiv)µ
[20:36:22] <anonimasu_> lol
[20:36:29] <anonimasu_> yep
[20:36:32] <anonimasu_> find a better way ^_^
[20:36:38] <fragalot> all I have is the trusty arsenal of hand tools :p
[20:36:57] <chr0n1c> you only need a 12" scale and a drill press, maybe a hacksaw and a small lathe to build your first cnc
[20:37:06] <micges> point is that I don't have time to develop filters or sth that fits to emc
[20:37:15] <fragalot> and the machines at my summer job, but can't use those for personal things :p
[20:37:16] <chr0n1c> or a cordless drill & hacksaw combo
[20:37:21] <fragalot> chr0n1c: note the "lathe"
[20:37:40] <fragalot> also, quit using inches, it's evil
[20:37:40] <fragalot> :p
[20:37:43] <chr0n1c> "maybe" a lathe
[20:37:54] <chr0n1c> inches are the win
[20:37:55] <fragalot> but a lathe makes lots of things a lot easier & better
[20:39:19] <chr0n1c> is considering a small lathe chuck for my 5c indexer/spin fixture
[20:40:09] <fragalot> does any1 here have plans for a lil' tabletop CNC mill that will actually /work/ ? :)
[20:40:23] <fragalot> mine might work for about... well,... untill it starts moving, then it 'l likely fall apart
[20:41:33] <chr0n1c> fragalot, use a mini drill press frame and bolt 3 slides to it
[20:42:01] <chr0n1c> quick and (can be) cheap
[20:42:03] <fragalot> the slides are my main concern.. with hand tools only, htf do i get it to lign up straight
[20:42:18] <chr0n1c> use slots
[20:42:44] <chr0n1c> slots and dial calipers would be a close start
[20:42:55] <chr0n1c> lockwashers...
[20:44:30] <fragalot> *ponders*
[20:45:07] <chr0n1c> scribe lines right on the parts with dial calipers... center punch holes... let the drill do the work and holes should be almost right on
[20:45:37] <anonimasu_> bolt one rail and mark it as "master"
[20:45:52] <anonimasu_> then align the other one after it..
[20:45:53] <anonimasu_> :)
[20:46:28] <fragalot> *sketches something out*
[20:46:30] <fragalot> :p
[20:46:48] <fenn> micges is the code available online somewhere?
[20:47:06] <DaViruz> anonimasu_: i see you have been reading on the 5bears site :)
[20:48:01] <anonimasu_> lol..
[20:48:10] <anonimasu_> no I havent since he stopped updating it
[20:48:41] <fragalot> I *started* reading on there, but it looked a lil' out of my league when i saw his "pet projects" like the turbine, etc...
[20:49:03] <anonimasu_> if you look at the dates it'st not as amazing..
[20:49:04] <anonimasu_> :p
[20:49:16] <anonimasu_> if you think about the time involved
[20:49:27] <anonimasu_> nevertheless really great stuff
[20:49:54] <fragalot> it's not because somebody starts in 2000 and finishes it in 2006 (example) that a lot of work has been put into it
[20:49:58] <fragalot> :p
[20:50:01] <fragalot> could be like an hour a week or so
[20:50:18] <anonimasu_> I doubt it :)
[20:50:22] <fragalot> :p
[20:50:49] <DaViruz> that would still be 300 hours.. :)
[20:51:02] <DaViruz> but an hour is barely enough to get started on a machining operation
[20:51:07] <fragalot> lol yeah
[20:51:23] <micges> fenn: one moment
[20:51:27] <fragalot> Daewoo puma 240's lathes take approx 5 minutes just to start up
[20:51:33] <anonimasu_> heh.. one hour is about the time to set stuff up in a mill..
[20:51:39] <anonimasu_> then the parts are like 2 minutes each :p
[20:51:46] <fragalot> anonimasu_: hehe, or less
[20:51:48] <anonimasu_> ep
[20:51:50] <anonimasu_> :)
[20:51:55] <fragalot> :p
[20:51:58] <DaViruz> i want your mills
[20:52:16] <DaViruz> i had 30min setup time and 4.5 hours machining time today for a really simple part :(
[20:52:30] <anonimasu_> :)
[20:52:41] <anonimasu_> I'm still trying to learn feeds/speeds :/
[20:52:46] <DaViruz> would have been 6 hours easily with turbocnc though, i'm really glad i changed to emc2
[20:52:48] <fragalot> anonimasu_: fun part is one of the older mills at work... it somehow decided after making 200 or so pieces, that it should take a depth gauge (or whatever its called) to drill a hole instead of the drill it's been using the entire time
[20:53:02] <anonimasu_> lol
[20:53:10] <fragalot> so,.. you hit the STOP button
[20:53:11] <anonimasu_> how the hell did that happen
[20:53:22] <fragalot> then the toolchanger blocks, and doesn't go back to it's home position
[20:53:31] <anonimasu_> the thing is that you doze off when the machine does nothing but finish parts..
[20:53:34] <anonimasu_> between changes :)
[20:53:42] <fragalot> i have no idea how that happened
[20:53:44] <fragalot> i still don't
[20:53:48] <anonimasu_> or in my case drill/change tool
[20:53:56] <anonimasu_> endmill then change tool
[20:54:01] <fragalot> yeah
[20:54:01] <anonimasu_> then center drill then change tool
[20:54:15] <anonimasu_> and ream
[20:55:07] <anonimasu_> (I hate changing tools)
[20:55:38] <fragalot> hehe, more fun if the machine does it for you
[20:55:45] <fragalot> then you can REALLY doze off
[20:55:59] <anonimasu_> until it slams into a clamp :p
[20:56:04] <fragalot> (untill you hear something crashing, because an air hose snapped and the tool falls out)
[20:56:06] <anonimasu_> that wakes you right up
[20:56:21] <fragalot> lol, yes
[20:57:04] <fragalot> or if a piece flies loose
[20:57:26] <rayh> Seems like air pressure should release parts or tools rather than hold them in place.
[20:57:33] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[20:58:23] <fragalot> rayh: it is like that, but not in the middle of the process (eg. the clamp holding them as it switches)
[21:02:04] <micges> fenn: http://emc-files.webpark.pl/vector.py
[21:02:10] <micges> http://emc-files.webpark.pl/dxf.py
[21:02:16] <micges> http://emc-files.webpark.pl/generator.py
[21:03:03] <micges> not too much slower than C code
[21:03:05] <fragalot> you MIGHT want to translate those printf things, or atleast put a commend what it means
[21:03:15] <fragalot> finally:
[21:03:15] <fragalot> print "Czas przetwarzania pliku: %d ms" % ((time.time() - t)*1000)
[21:03:20] <fragalot> dxf.py
[21:03:36] <anonimasu_> hm
[21:03:44] <micges> good point :P
[21:03:50] <fragalot> :D
[21:05:16] <fragalot> well, i'm off to bed.. cya
[21:07:17] <micges> fixed translation
[21:07:57] <micges> I dont know how to put it together int some filter program
[21:08:08] <micges> to many options...
[21:11:47] <chr0n1c> micges, is there a readme for the scripts or a wiki blurb?
[21:11:51] <micges> anyone have any docs about dxf r14 SPLINE command ?
[21:12:09] <chr0n1c> i don't know enough python to read and understand what would be happening in the scripts
[21:12:41] <micges> here is readme : :)
[21:12:54] <chr0n1c> like what version of .dxf files do they read?
[21:13:12] <chr0n1c> and are all 3 scripts required for conversion?
[21:13:15] <micges> up to r12
[21:13:29] <micges> no no
[21:13:40] <micges> this is the wroking code
[21:13:59] <micges> filter program can be build but I dont know how
[21:14:28] <chr0n1c> ok... i was going to see if i could get some output, but didn't really know where to start after looking at the files
[21:16:53] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c didn't run them though
[21:17:13] <chr0n1c> so that might explain a few things?
[21:17:49] <micges> give me few minutes
[21:18:55] <fragalot> I think I just found my biggest issue with making a CNC mill
[21:18:57] <fragalot> overthinking it
[21:18:58] <fragalot> :p
[21:19:30] <fenn> micges: what is imported from machine_global?
[21:20:17] <fenn> (if anything)
[21:28:30] <fenn> hmm probably dxf.DXF.source
[21:30:26] <micges> fenn: I have working version
[21:31:28] <micges> redownload files
[21:31:54] <micges> and download this: http://emc-files.webpark.pl/conv.py
[21:32:05] <micges> all files and dxf file in one dir
[21:32:22] <micges> and then: python conv.py dxffile.dxf
[21:32:30] <micges> should work :)
[21:33:57] <fenn> hey it works :)
[21:34:59] <fragalot> haha
[21:35:15] <fragalot> DXF is really a worthy feature...
[21:35:31] <micges> dxf files should have header to load
[21:35:41] <micges> options are in source
[21:35:46] <micges> conv.py
[21:36:41] <micges> fenn: It's quite fast code :)
[21:38:51] <micges> retype: anyone have any info about dxf r14 SPLINE command ??
[21:40:58] <chr0n1c> http://www.autodesk.com/techpubs/autocad/acadr14/dxf/
[21:41:53] <fenn> micges: is all the .append stuff to make it faster?
[21:42:02] <fenn> instead of using functions
[21:42:32] <micges> yes
[21:42:51] <fenn> have you tried psyco?
[21:43:09] <fenn> its supposed to reduce the cost of a function call
[21:43:34] <chr0n1c> cost of cpu power?
[21:43:37] <micges> I have this code builded to axis
[21:44:26] <micges> and when I use psyco I have to huge memory cost (about 1GB after 2h work)
[21:44:56] <fenn> ah i see
[21:44:58] <micges> to this small code psyco do well its job
[21:45:48] <micges> chr0n1c: yes, time cost of function calls
[21:46:52] <micges> I don't know well python library ,maybe it has libs to speed it up better
[21:48:08] <micges> fenn: have you tested this few times ?
[21:49:11] <fenn> tested what?
[21:49:58] <micges> conv.py
[21:50:16] <fenn> i'm trying to get it to print out the list of gcodes
[21:53:26] <fenn> i'm sorta confused why you use None here: conv = Conv(None)
[21:55:29] <micges> quick n dirty
[21:55:34] <fragalot> my god alibre is annoying to make 2D schematics with
[21:55:55] <micges> param was pointer to axis main window
[21:56:05] <micges> its useless
[22:03:54] <fragalot> thats it, i'm going to bed
[22:03:54] <fragalot> cya
[22:04:24] <micges> gn
[22:18:02] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c just had a salad from his own garden... so yummy
[22:25:38] <dmess> any one have any idea how i could use my 3rd axis driver as an input for a VFD to control my spindle??
[22:27:51] <micges> good night
[22:32:18] <chr0n1c> cya micges
[22:51:59] <jepler> figuring out how to program an fpga image to flash via jtag the first time is less than obvious
[22:52:13] <jepler> in fact, I think it took an hour
[22:52:26] <anonimasu_> lol >(
[22:52:28] <anonimasu_> :)
[22:52:34] <anonimasu_> what are you doing with the fpga?
[22:52:51] <jepler> http://www.sump.org/projects/analyzer/
[22:54:53] <jepler> still not sure whether it works yet; next I have to get the f***ing java GUI to start
[22:56:38] <dmess> goog luck.. it looks like a cool and worthwhile project
[22:56:54] <dmess> good
[22:57:21] <jepler> if you really can get a device that does all that page promises for a hundred bucks or so, it's like a miracle
[22:58:38] <anonimasu_> ^_^
[22:59:51] <jepler> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: gnu/io/CommPortIdentifier
[23:02:21] <dmess> as i said... looks to be a VERY worthwhile piece of work.. ;)
[23:03:28] <dmess> im still waiting for my drives and driver board to show up... then we'll hack it into the boy's PC
[23:39:46] <jepler> >>> s.write("\0\0\0\0\0\2")
[23:39:46] <jepler> >>> s.read(4)
[23:39:46] <jepler> '1ALS'
[23:39:52] <jepler> OK, I've finally communicated with it .. in python
[23:40:10] <jepler> f**ing java
[23:41:49] <cradek> yay, the lathe is safely on the ground and in the garage
[23:41:54] <jepler> yay cradek
[23:44:01] <dmess> how big a lathe cradek?
[23:44:08] <cradek> hardinge HNC
[23:44:48] <dmess> right on... i have an hsl-59 we just lugged into the basement
[23:45:58] <dmess> i have 2 clamp on cross slides so i am putting EMC on 1 of them
[23:46:32] <skunkworks> cradek: pictures??? :)
[23:47:10] <cradek> too hot outside to even think about going back out to take a picture
[23:48:29] <dmess> mind if i ask what it cost ya??
[23:49:03] <cradek> 1.5 billion dollars
[23:49:24] <cradek> (I don't want to say and make everyone jealous)
[23:49:49] <cradek> 1200 miles worth of gas money was a big part of it!!
[23:49:51] <dmess> so you stole it... COOL... me to
[23:49:53] <dmess> too
[23:50:58] <dmess> WOW... mine was in the HOUSE
[23:52:51] <dmess> shipping and moveing cost me nothing more than MA alone at 1 end and ME and my son and a good friend of his to get it in the house... shipping would have been a mint on this its small.. but massively heave
[23:54:06] <dmess> finally after 3 yrs i may start to take baby EMC step... ;)