#emc | Logs for 2008-07-18

[00:11:38] <stustev> good evening
[00:12:13] <stustev> cradek: are you alive?
[00:12:28] <BeIdentityCrisis> hey, does anyone know of a good place to get cheap end-mills? I keep breaking them... :(
[00:13:01] <stustev> sounds like you already have cheap end mills :)
[00:13:45] <stustev> good cheap end mills is another story
[00:13:57] <stustev> what are you trying to do?
[00:17:01] <BeIdentityCrisis> just learning.... messing with aluminum mostly
[00:17:06] <BeIdentityCrisis> and plastics
[00:24:25] <dmess> the 2 worst things to learn in...
[00:26:11] <stustev> bbl
[00:26:13] <dmess> get some 1020 steel to set a GUAGE.... alu is 2x plastics it 4-8 x depending what its mixed with
[00:27:49] <dmess> ive had stuff with quarts in it and that ISNT nice on cutters..:(
[00:28:36] <dmess> even igh quality carbibe bit the pits'
[00:28:45] <dmess> high
[01:08:25] <PMinMO> anybody online that can give me advice on the SMI interrupt fix?
[01:16:18] <PMinMO> cricket, cricket......
[02:11:25] <skunkworks> PMinMO: it is on the wiki..
[02:11:28] <skunkworks> let me look
[02:12:03] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[02:12:14] <PMinMO> yes, I did the fix, but it says there is a bug
[02:13:32] <PMinMO> when RTAI starts up it detects the Intel modther board then gives me a bug message
[02:13:40] <PMinMO> motherboard
[02:19:08] <skunkworks> are you sure your chipset has issues with smi?
[02:20:25] <skunkworks> what version of ubuntu are you using?
[02:20:53] <PMinMO> I'm not positive, but latency testing looks acceptable at 50us and less, but periodically I get a 16ms glitch
[02:20:58] <skunkworks> if it is dapper - you need to download the rtai_smi.ko from the wiki
[02:21:04] <PMinMO> hardy
[02:21:07] <PMinMO> 8.04
[02:21:42] <skunkworks> ok - have you tried loading it manually? going to the module directory and doing sudo insmod rtai_smi.ko
[02:22:40] <skunkworks> 50us isn't that good..
[02:22:51] <skunkworks> under 20us is acceptable.
[02:23:05] <skunkworks> is this a laptop?
[02:23:49] <PMinMO> no I didn't try manually, I can live with 50us
[02:24:00] <PMinMO> yes it's an intel laptop
[02:24:07] <skunkworks> what chipset?
[02:24:12] <PMinMO> I thought I'd give it a try
[02:24:23] <skunkworks> lspci -v and pastebin it.
[02:25:15] <PMinMO> I can't at the moment, the laptop isn't accesable at the moment
[02:25:35] <skunkworks> 50us mean you need to run emc at a higher baseperiod. (the default base period is 50us) so it need to be even higher
[02:26:03] <skunkworks> *50us of jitter
[02:26:20] <PMinMO> I have adjusted the baseperiod
[02:26:50] <PMinMO> it's driving a system where my max step rate is not that fast
[02:27:08] <skunkworks> ok
[02:27:15] <cradek> stustev: good evening
[02:28:27] <PMinMO> It's a dell C610 and the Intel Mobile literature says it does and SMI interrupt
[02:30:57] <skunkworks> your probably fighting a few things - maybe smi and shared video memory. maybe more.
[02:31:40] <PMinMO> possible, but the smi show seems to fit
[02:31:56] <PMinMO> shoe seems to fit.....
[02:33:08] <skunkworks> this is a dell inspiron 1.7ghz - I needed to do the smi thing on it. It made it work pretty good.. but I would not trust it to run a real machine.. every once in a great while it spits out huge jitter.
[02:33:27] <skunkworks> but it lets me play.
[02:33:50] <PMinMO> a google search comes up with Sheldon Stokes running the same laptop as I have with emc and an SMI fix
[02:36:18] <skunkworks> you would have to post the error you get when it tries to load the smi module. when you get a chance\
[02:37:42] <PMinMO> thanks
[02:38:40] <skunkworks> time for bed.. night
[03:28:04] <PMinMO> for the record, a manual load of rtai_smi.ko works...in fact my latency numbers al improved and NO overruns on emc executing now to figure out why a manul load works but as part of the .conf file it doesn't
[03:47:57] <Rabbitbunny> Yes, I realize this channel is not specifically for CAD, However, I need some help wit SolidWorks and Google is hiding the answer from me. I've modelled a double wishbone suspension, at random points it will flip inside out. I have to the delete the mates holding the spring in, flip everything around and reconnect it. This is... extremely annoying and time consuming. Anybody happen to know how to get that to stop happening?
[03:48:04] <Rabbitbunny> s/wit/with/
[03:55:55] <toastydeath> unfortunately solidworks is just not the greatest package for kinematics
[03:57:19] <Rabbitbunny> Isn't that when you try to animate?
[03:58:09] <Rabbitbunny> I'm not trying to animate it, I'll be... Spinning the wheel or turning the steering an BAM! Inside out suspension!
[03:58:15] <ds2> chuck solidworks
[03:59:04] <Rabbitbunny> But, I like SolidWorks, Better than AutoCAD.
[04:02:44] <ds2> use something that runs on Linux :P
[04:49:09] <Rabbitbunny> I don't have the hardware for that.
[04:49:27] <Rabbitbunny> I'm looking at some oss packages, on my Windows box.
[04:56:44] <toastydeath> rabbitbunny:
[04:56:59] <toastydeath> spinning the wheel and turning the steering wheel are not what solidworks is built for
[04:57:12] <toastydeath> it doesn't have the input sensitivty/grace to do things like that smoothly
[04:58:01] <Rabbitbunny> I need something that does.
[04:58:56] <toastydeath> can't help you there, all I can tell you is that solidworks is not the right program for the job =(
[04:59:16] <Rabbitbunny> My entire goal for CAD is to take the designs in my head and put them in a box that can measure and weigh them. And tell me how much pipe to buy. And figure the draft in. And the volume of Al I'll need.
[04:59:29] <Rabbitbunny> And make sure everything fits.
[04:59:33] <Rabbitbunny> I don't want nuch.
[04:59:56] <toastydeath> that's best achieved with some balsa wood and a drill press
[04:59:59] <toastydeath> (seriously)
[05:00:16] <toastydeath> you can save yourself 5 hours in the shop by spending 3 weeks with a computer model that doesn't work
[05:00:37] <toastydeath> obviously that's moot if you're designing really complicated linkages
[05:00:51] <Rabbitbunny> Like... an entire velomobile.
[05:00:54] <toastydeath> but there are linkage design packages out there, i just don't use any or know any names.
[05:01:20] <toastydeath> why would you want to model an entire automobile in solidworks, down to the linkages?
[05:02:25] <Rabbitbunny> To make sure it fits.
[05:02:41] <Rabbitbunny> What are other people modelling?
[05:02:56] <toastydeath> specific components for dimensioning for manufacture?
[05:03:22] <Rabbitbunny> Yes.
[05:06:44] <toastydeath> dunno man, it sounds like you're trying to do the initial design work in solidworks
[05:06:47] <toastydeath> and that, in my experience, ends poorly
[05:07:30] <Rabbitbunny> I'd say 'flipping inside out' is a relativly poor outcome.
[07:53:31] <fenn> http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/chinamil_07_09/chinamil8.jpg
[07:53:45] <fenn> some chinese mil's are worse than others
[12:05:59] <Guest313> Guest313 is now known as skunkworks_
[12:08:24] <rayh> Mornin skunkworks
[12:08:43] <skunkworks_> morning ray
[12:10:30] <skunkworks_> anything new?
[12:11:10] <rayh> Nope. another day
[12:12:12] <rayh> Did talk to a guy setting up a Bostomatic model 1000 5-axis.
[12:12:31] <rayh> The kins are very much like Chris' little mill.
[12:13:58] <skunkworks_> Neat
[12:15:06] <rayh> He's got 4 of five axes working.
[12:15:19] <skunkworks_> emc?
[12:15:24] <rayh> Using Mesa 5i20 and some stuff seb sent him.
[12:15:27] <rayh> Yep.
[12:15:29] <skunkworks_> nrsy
[12:15:36] <skunkworks_> *neat
[12:16:22] <rayh> The new mesa driver allows for 5+ axes of motion.
[12:17:16] <cradek> good morning folks
[12:17:21] <skunkworks_> Hi chris
[12:17:39] <alex_joni> hi all
[12:17:47] <rayh> Hi Alex
[12:17:55] <cradek> I'm [hopefully] getting a Hardinge HNC this weekend
[12:17:55] <rayh> Hi chris
[12:18:00] <skunkworks_> hey alex
[12:18:18] <alex_joni> cradek: lathe?
[12:18:20] <skunkworks_> cradek: it's a slippery slope.... ;)
[12:18:24] <cradek> yep
[12:18:26] <rayh> Fantastic cradek
[12:18:27] <alex_joni> nice :)
[12:18:34] <alex_joni> hopefully no control on it
[12:18:39] <alex_joni> :-P
[12:18:48] <cradek> and also a flatbed trailer, finally
[12:18:56] <cradek> yes it comes with the 6.5 foot tall control
[12:19:19] <archivist> box to put new control in :)
[12:19:27] <rayh> Hey the nixie tubes in that begger fetch $30 each.
[12:19:36] <cradek> box to put the new control and also park my car in
[12:20:31] <alex_joni> haha
[12:20:33] <skunkworks_> heh
[12:20:37] <alex_joni> but not the bus
[12:21:47] <cradek> hope I can manage to run it. I don't know much about it (like what power it needs)
[12:21:53] <skunkworks_> cradek: there are a couple of good threads on cnczone about the hnc iirc
[12:23:36] <skunkworks_> plus doesn't wallace have one?
[12:23:54] <cradek> yes
[12:26:09] <skunkworks_> That has servos?
[12:26:25] <cradek> yes, but with resolvers
[12:26:45] <cradek> or, at least, peter's had resolvers
[12:27:14] <skunkworks_> are you going to play with resolver->quadture converters.. or just replace them?
[12:28:01] <cradek> not sure yet. I know J Elson is making a converter. I don't know if it's done or what the price is. I will ask him.
[12:32:40] <skunkworks_> so... are you going to try to run the original control?
[12:33:09] <cradek> if it just works, I will definitely play with it
[12:33:18] <cradek> (it is supposed to work)
[12:33:35] <cradek> bbl, breakfast
[12:44:45] <skunkworks_> if all goes well - I may have a current limited amp good for 10 amps or so.. And now jepler_ can make circuit boards.. ;)
[13:32:59] <cradek> whee, send me a couple
[13:36:01] <skunkworks_> the lathe is only 2 axis - right?
[13:36:09] <cradek> yes
[13:36:20] <skunkworks_> do you know the voltage of the servos?
[13:36:27] <cradek> I think the DC bus is 90
[13:36:45] <skunkworks_> not too scary.. :)
[13:36:52] <cradek> it might have nice working velocity mode amps already...
[13:36:59] <skunkworks_> good point.
[13:37:04] <cradek> but if I take the tachs off that'll be kaput
[13:37:10] <cradek> hmm.
[13:37:21] <cradek> err no, resolvers
[13:37:29] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ was wondering..
[13:37:38] <skunkworks_> not enough caffine?
[13:37:39] <cradek> it wouldn't have both tachs and resolvers would it?
[13:37:43] <skunkworks_> yes
[13:37:46] <skunkworks_> it would
[13:37:55] <skunkworks_> or could
[13:38:14] <cradek> I've seen [only] resolvers hooked to the amps (G&L)
[13:38:28] <skunkworks_> a lot of servos have the tachs internally as part of the servo
[13:38:38] <cradek> yes my bp has that
[13:38:43] <skunkworks_> ah
[13:38:47] <rayh> The amps I've seen them use are GE. Rock solid but I've had to replace some caps on these.
[13:38:49] <cradek> just some smaller extra brushes
[13:39:02] <rayh> They do require tach feedback.
[13:39:15] <cradek> rayh: so the amps don't care about the resolvers?
[13:39:24] <rayh> No
[13:39:30] <cradek> nice.
[13:39:47] <cradek> that's easy then. I will definitely keep them.
[13:40:02] <rayh> MattS made up a spindle that was the size of the resolver and hung a Usdigital on the back of it.
[13:40:32] <cradek> I think I remember he showed us a picture of that sometime back
[13:41:01] <rayh> I believe that the HNC used a split gear to take up lash between the ball screw and both tach and resolver.
[13:41:48] <skunkworks_> cradek: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50685&highlight=Hardinge
[13:42:09] <rayh> The CHNC used a cam like collar on the tach and resolver to shift the driven gear into the drive gear.
[13:42:10] <skunkworks_> I think he is using mach - but still may be some useful info
[15:19:58] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[16:39:04] <Patrice> Hello Ray
[16:39:18] <rayh> Hi Patrice
[16:43:12] <rayh> Congrats on getting the mill into production.
[18:45:47] <Guest658> hi
[20:43:18] <tomp> fenn: that picture looks like... just before 30 blowed up asses :)
[20:45:50] <tomp> is a segway able to compensate for a 50mm round recoil ? hah!
[20:46:07] <ds2> let's find out!
[20:49:45] <fenn> tomp: apparently that's why the guns are so tiny, to reduce recoil :)
[20:51:12] <fenn> the whole photojournal is just baffling to an american viewpoint: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/07/antiterrorism_exercises_in_chi.html
[20:51:42] <fenn> i feel sort of scared and amused at the same time