#emc | Logs for 2008-06-17

[00:01:38] <dmess> i'd rather a true DOS system than ANY WINBlows boot screen...
[00:04:12] <pminmo> anybody around?
[00:04:42] <dmess> bcz when the h/w pukes and you discover it a strange celeron processor that was only made for 3 weeks... you wait 3 1 month for a CPU and 2 more to load the s/w and check out the machine.... TOSHIBA... in 6 hrs ive scabed a board from the show room and your up and running with the last brain i scabbed from ya
[00:07:36] <dmess> our new FIDIA is a winblows front end with a pci micro-processor doing the real time stuff on its own
[01:27:30] <tomp> gnite
[02:24:09] <chr0n1c> http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/CAD?highlight=(cad)
[03:01:54] <slider> i have stpid Q and need help: i am trying to +grade to 2.2.5 on ubuntu6, but when i run the shell script, i can only get version 2.0.5, which was on the original live-CD i used. any help out there?
[03:02:20] <slider> emc2.2.5 needed i meant.
[03:06:39] <cradek> slider: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[03:09:37] <slider> hmm--now this is one i had not seen. i read several other similar wiki docs, i will try this. thanks!
[03:09:52] <cradek> welcome, hope you get it.
[03:13:21] <wholepair> Hello - Im trying to setup a DRO with pyVCP to read an acu-rite linear scale, this one: http://www.acu-rite.com/act_Download.cfm?FileID=220&/AR5scale.pdf
[03:17:44] <wholepair> sorry - my laptop stalled - did anyone here my opening question about a DRO
[03:18:12] <cradek> I didn't see a question
[03:18:56] <wholepair> can the lpt port source enough current to run a linear scale - the manual says max 200mA
[03:19:09] <cradek> no
[03:21:32] <wholepair> I didn't think so - I will setup a separate power supply then - thanks
[04:02:09] <brent_laptop> can someone tell me how to do a simple thing like rename a directory in cvs?
[04:02:46] <ds2> officially, you can't
[04:02:57] <ds2> unofficially, you have to muck with the repo
[04:03:22] <brent_laptop> thanks- so I'll have to email sourceforge?
[04:03:45] <brent_laptop> to get them to change it I suppose?
[04:03:47] <ds2> why do you want to rename it?
[04:04:05] <ds2> you need to keep history or?
[04:05:12] <brent_laptop> well, it's one of those things that happened early on, and the original name made no sense- so I changed it- little did I know...
[04:05:16] <jepler> mucking with the cvs repository directly is a bad idea. cvs doesn't support renaming, and it's best not to try these "tricks" to rename.
[04:05:28] <jepler> cvs rm the file in the old location and cvs add the new location
[04:05:38] <ds2> that looses history for the contents
[04:05:51] <jepler> use the -P (prune empty directories) flag to co and up so you don't get empty directories
[04:06:04] <brent_laptop> gah...
[04:06:09] <jepler> ds2: yes, but the alternative is bad too -- it creates a false history
[04:06:29] <ds2> joys of cvs :)
[04:06:32] <ds2> use git ;)
[04:06:34] <jepler> if you check out old revisions or dates, you don't get the same thing that was actually checked in at that revision or date, because the locations of files are different
[04:07:36] <brent_laptop> maybe I'll just forget the whole thing, and call it a lesson learned.
[04:07:38] <jepler> yeah, almost every revision control system newer than cvs has tackled this issue one way or another
[04:07:49] <jepler> http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/notes/cvs/renaming-files.html
[04:08:00] <ds2> another fun thing - CVS doesn't "understand" directories
[04:08:49] <brent_laptop> subversion?
[04:09:02] <jepler> if you have realised early enough in your project's history that cvs is no good, then hurry and import the repository into a newer system -- I think that svn, git, and bzr can all import cvs pretty OK. then never look back.,
[04:09:29] <jepler> "early enough" depends on how many developers you piss off because they have to learn new tools
[04:09:32] <jepler> IMO
[04:10:06] <brent_laptop> well, that's not too much of a problem here I guess, I'd just piss off myself mostly:)
[04:10:57] <brent_laptop> trouble is, it doesn't encourage experimenting- not on something so important.
[04:11:10] <ds2> does svn offer the concept of a change list?
[11:22:21] <micges> hello
[12:35:29] <archivist> * archivist looks at webcam and spies a porta potty, (yellow object between machines)
[12:42:41] <Guest346> did someone vomit? ;)
[12:42:48] <Guest346> Guest346 is now known as skunkworks_
[12:49:23] <archivist> too much beer at the fest last night!
[12:53:45] <skunkworks_> heh
[13:21:25] <skunkworks_> Jepler is up :)
[13:33:08] <jepler> hi skunkworks_
[13:34:28] <skunkworks_> jepler: good morning.
[13:35:10] <skunkworks_> my last day of work today.. :) (just giving you guys a heads up)
[13:35:20] <jepler> heh
[13:35:24] <jepler> so you're driving down tomorrow?
[13:35:26] <skunkworks_> Yes
[13:35:55] <skunkworks_> probably won't be down there until late.. (like 8:00 or so)
[13:35:57] <jepler> ah
[13:36:00] <jepler> just in time for dinner
[13:36:08] <skunkworks_> heh - you guys eat late.
[13:36:12] <jepler> unfortunately
[13:36:44] <skunkworks_> heh - is your sleep schedule new? or where you always 'early to bed...'
[13:36:57] <jepler> do you have a video camera or a digital camera that is any good for videos? by the end of the week we'll want to record a video of max5 milling but I don't think we have a good camera on hand yet
[13:37:28] <jepler> compared to cradek, swpadnos, and jmkasunich I'm an early riser
[13:37:30] <jepler> compared to ray, I'm not
[13:37:41] <cradek> I have my acceptable (fixed focus but seems to work for youtube) camera
[13:37:44] <jepler> hi cradek
[13:37:46] <cradek> hi
[13:37:54] <jepler> oh in that case we're covered
[13:38:22] <jepler> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tA-W7nTNSc
[13:40:27] <als> what have you fellas been focused on at the fest so far? hard to get a grip on the IRC
[13:41:10] <jepler> als: all sorts of stuff is going on
[13:41:17] <jepler> ray henry is teaching a series of classes on linux and emc2
[13:41:45] <jepler> we're doing some demos of lathe and mill with emc, including the new 5-axis milling stuff
[13:41:50] <jepler> talking to people about the software
[13:42:06] <jepler> getting the emc2 mazak ready to mill a motor mount later in the week
[13:42:49] <als> cool keep us updated if you would
[13:52:21] <skunkworks_> jepler: we might have a minidv camera. we will look.
[13:54:37] <jepler> skunkworks_: ok but it sounds like cradek has something that will work too
[13:56:58] <skunkworks_> ok - cool
[13:57:24] <jepler> hm interesting -- I am running 4 instances of pov on my dual-core laptop. sometimes each one gets about 50% CPU, but other times one gets 100% CPU and the other three each get 33% CPU.
[13:58:22] <skunkworks_> That video is pretty cool :)
[14:01:51] <jepler> I'm glad you enjoyed it
[14:02:09] <skunkworks_> How long did that take to render?
[14:03:40] <jepler> most of the day
[14:04:04] <jepler> actually I let it run overnight
[14:05:24] <archivist> hmm just watched, I like
[14:07:20] <archivist> * archivist hopes/waits for same in axis window
[14:09:46] <jepler> archivist: hah
[14:09:48] <jepler> not likely
[14:09:59] <jepler> people prefer their axis backplot to update more than once every 3 minutes
[14:10:08] <archivist> go on you know you can do it
[14:11:35] <archivist> I think there are possibilities, Im certainly not looking for ray traced perfection
[14:25:42] <skunkworks_> jepler had started something a while back..
[14:27:17] <skunkworks_> http://axis.unpythonic.net/01169689661
[14:27:30] <archivist> hmm I should start playing wit the axis code more
[14:29:53] <archivist> for me when rotating the A axis the tool should not rotate, but the blank should
[14:30:14] <archivist> and the paths....
[14:30:47] <archivist> leaving cuts in the gear
[14:47:50] <skunkworks_> cradek: good morning :)
[14:47:54] <cradek> hi sam
[14:48:44] <skunkworks_> seems people are interested in your max :) usually groups of people standing around it
[14:49:03] <cradek> it's definitely unusual
[14:49:11] <skunkworks_> heh
[14:54:10] <skunkworks_> btw - how has the temperature been?
[14:54:37] <chr0n1c> morning!
[14:55:06] <cradek> it's nice and cool
[14:55:10] <cradek> high 75 maybe
[14:55:18] <skunkworks_> Great. It has been beautiful here also.
[14:55:24] <chr0n1c> 64 here in dayton, ohio
[14:55:31] <chr0n1c> sposed to be in the 50's tonight
[14:56:13] <skunkworks_> 50's and night and 70's during the day
[14:57:28] <chr0n1c> my garden really likes the 70-80 degree weather...
[15:00:15] <alSMT> 1" hall here yesterday my garden didn't like that
[15:01:58] <chr0n1c> what ya growing alSMT?
[15:04:30] <alSMT> toma,beans,peps,broc,potatoes,squash,carrots,radish,onions
[15:06:02] <chr0n1c> nice... i got all that going -broc, squash, onions
[15:06:36] <chr0n1c> big mamma lima beans from burpee... sposed to be like ten feet tall
[15:07:05] <skunkworks_> jepler: is this the shuttle express that doesn't seem to work with the linux kernel? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59800
[15:08:15] <chr0n1c> hey would the transformer from the power supply of an old(newish) JVC tuner work for part of the pwoer supply for my HobbyCNC 4 axis board?
[15:08:33] <chr0n1c> i was thinking it would work..* just haven't got around to building something..
[15:09:12] <archivist> for logic maybe, stepper driving unlikely
[15:10:27] <chr0n1c> i was slavaging some caps out of the thing and i saw the transformer and got inspired to finish the hobby cnc board... it's been sitting here half soldered on my bench for like a year.. :|
[15:10:56] <chr0n1c> i think i am at the point where i set the voltage and test... then solder the driver chips in
[15:11:42] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c really really wants to get an A axis going
[15:12:05] <archivist> jymm, you still op in ##php
[15:18:37] <BigJohnT> well, now that the head on my Bridgeport is trammed I can get back to work
[15:21:07] <chr0n1c> my bridgeport hasn't fell from the sky and landed in my garage yet... still waiting
[15:25:13] <SWPLinux> don't wait in the garage
[15:28:46] <chr0n1c> lol
[15:34:36] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT though archivist would catch that
[15:35:28] <archivist> and run away with it
[15:36:42] <BigJohnT> you would think with three stop buttons counting the e-stop that I would be faster than 200IPM rapid with 4 inches of travel!
[16:16:23] <jymm> archivist: why?
[16:16:45] <archivist> needed an op earlier add cythrawl
[16:17:03] <archivist> or someone sensible
[17:12:43] <chr0n1c> cam awesomeness = win98 in vmware on a x86_64 1.6ghz/1gbram
[17:16:04] <jepler> skunkworks_: http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg02091.html
[17:17:21] <jepler> skunkworks_: probably, yes
[17:17:53] <awallin> what's up at fest today?
[17:18:36] <jepler> awallin: rigid tapping on the mazak is much better after tweaking inifile settings (task, traj periods)
[17:19:25] <awallin> ok, did you run the 5-axis program that was shown as an avi yesterday?
[17:19:29] <jepler> awallin: there's a lag between spindle and Z, and the sign of the difference is different in each direction
[17:19:51] <jepler> awallin: but changing it from traj 10ms / servo 1ms to traj .5ms / servo .5ms improved it by a factor of 20
[17:19:59] <jepler> awallin: yes we have milled it, but I don't think any photos are online.
[17:20:06] <skunkworks_> jepler: thanks
[17:21:00] <jepler> awallin: the video finshed and made it onto youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tA-W7nTNSc
[17:24:10] <skunkworks_> what was the diffence in actuall position between forware and reverse? like .005" (if that question made sense)
[17:24:17] <awallin> is the g-code CAM generated or generated by hand or through some ball-specific code?
[17:25:13] <DanielFalck> is that Stuart in front of the Mazak?
[17:26:05] <jepler> DanielFalck: yeah, in thestriped shirt
[19:32:43] <alSMT> I think the fest cam has crashed cradek has not moved in a hr or two!
[19:33:23] <skunkworks_> jmk is out of irc.. I think the cam is hooked to his computer
[19:33:36] <jepler> yeah the camera driver crashes his computer once a day or so
[19:34:16] <alSMT> bummer
[19:36:01] <ds2> much rather believe he is meditating ;)
[19:45:35] <DanielFalck> are both Mazaks in the festcam being controlled with EMC2?
[19:45:46] <cradek> just the right one
[19:46:02] <DanielFalck> what's controlling the one on the left?
[19:46:04] <cradek> we hear the left one works with the original control, but I think none of us have seen it
[19:46:19] <jmkasunich> a couple years ago I saw it jog
[19:46:38] <jmkasunich> afaik it has never run a part program since it arrived in this building
[19:46:56] <alSMT> did you guys get the motor mounts done? or setup
[19:54:18] <jepler> alSMT: most of what you see going on around the mazak is related to the motor mount project
[20:02:31] <jmkasunich> roland spent the last few days building a fixture in the other shop
[20:02:38] <jmkasunich> its being mounted and assembled now
[20:07:08] <DanielFalck> how is Roland doing?
[20:07:26] <jmkasunich> pretty good I think
[20:07:35] <DanielFalck> good deal
[20:07:52] <jmkasunich> he's wearing the t-shirt with the heart on the back
[20:08:05] <DanielFalck> cool
[20:08:07] <jmkasunich> its from the heart attack rehab place
[20:15:06] <chr0n1c> geesh..
[20:52:34] <jepler> working on preview and backplot for 5-axis http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/5axis-preview-backplot.png
[20:52:47] <jepler> that's an XYZBCUVW program
[20:53:03] <jepler> (the same one in the solids video I linked to earlier)
[20:53:35] <chr0n1c> what was the vid link?
[20:53:43] <chr0n1c> that is a sexy program
[20:53:55] <skunkworks_> That is understandable.. What would it look like normally in the preview?
[20:54:44] <jepler> skunkworks_: mostly it looks like some vertical lines, because BCUVW are ignored
[20:54:54] <jepler> chr0n1c: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tA-W7nTNSc
[20:55:14] <skunkworks_> ah - ok
[20:55:55] <chr0n1c> ty
[20:57:26] <chr0n1c> awesome, gcode from povray.. which does 3d dxf right?
[20:58:10] <tom1> whoa! did somebody make spherical interpolation?
[20:58:46] <chr0n1c> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M&NR=1 <- i just found this... wish i had sound
[21:00:29] <chr0n1c> i know i had found one ray program that imports/exports 3d models in dxf now i can't find it anymore
[21:03:47] <jepler> tom1: I *think* that the move along the sphere is a long move in C but I'm not sure of the details -- I don't think it's applicable to non-5-axis machines
[21:04:15] <jepler> chr0n1c: jmkasunich wrote a special-purpose C program that ouputs pov code and gcode, I just changed it a little to make it an animation
[21:04:50] <jepler> chr0n1c: so it's not pov -> gcode, it's program -> gcode and program -> pov
[21:06:34] <micges> who is the man with long black hair ?
[21:06:45] <chr0n1c> that's steven tyler
[21:06:52] <chr0n1c> oh, nevermind that
[21:07:38] <chr0n1c> if you wanna see some emc in action, look at the emc2 tag on youtube... amazing...
[21:07:39] <jepler> I'm on the left. there's another guy with long black hair who is usually hidden from the camera -- that's SWPLinux
[21:08:02] <tom1> jepler: thx, did the spherical move go 'direct' to hal? ( no gcode, no ncg274 interpreter ?)
[21:08:16] <tom1> its really a cool animation :)
[21:08:38] <jepler> tom1: it's a gcode program
[21:08:39] <skunkworks_> tom1: they are acutally cutting that on cradek's machine
[21:08:42] <micges> jepler: with blue tshirt ?
[21:09:25] <jepler> micges: It's a grey shirt but the white balance of the camera is not very good..
[21:09:39] <jepler> the gcode is close to this: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/trefoil.ngc
[21:09:40] <tom1> wah! i gotta work and the boss just gave me a 'be in detroit saturday morning'! crap!
[21:10:37] <jepler> tom1: enjoy your trip :-P
[21:10:45] <micges> jepler: what is main subject on fest? how is the progress of topics that youre planned to do ?
[21:11:11] <tom1> ah! a bazillion short lines! np. the APT isnt popluar becuz people f\dont understand it , but, it can be told to cut the path into x size chunks, and will output such code for you.
[21:11:26] <skunkworks_> micges: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Fest_2008
[21:11:57] <jepler> micges: there are a lot of different subjects going on -- everyone has his own ideas.
[21:12:41] <tom1> thats how i did the xyz abc uvw hole driller with orbiting, lotsa short segments, and for me, just trivkins
[21:13:56] <jepler> micges: a lot of work today is going on preparing the mazak to mill a part for another CNC machine (a motor mount)
[21:14:06] <jepler> micges: another hot topic is the 5-axis stuff, and that's what I've been coding for today
[21:14:50] <jepler> there's also a lot of socializing and talking about the software (not everyone here is an emc user -- non-Free Windows controls for hobbyists are represented, such as mach)
[21:15:06] <jepler> also some cam software vendors (again, for Windows)
[21:16:32] <chr0n1c> if you get the chance thell them we want open source cam...
[21:16:46] <jepler> chr0n1c: hah
[21:16:56] <jepler> I think the way to get open source cam is to write it
[21:17:22] <chr0n1c> mmmkay
[21:19:11] <micges> jepler: why preview of rotating is limited to only A axis ?
[21:19:20] <micges> bug ?
[21:19:40] <micges> in emc 2.2 of course
[21:19:54] <jepler> micges: no, it's not a bug. in emc 2.2.x, preview and backplot basically ignore the rotational axes, and that is known and not likely to change.
[21:19:57] <ds2> even mastercam is talked about here ;)
[21:20:29] <jepler> (backplot does rotate the cone based on "A", but that's basically useless)
[21:20:47] <jepler> I'm working on improving that in 2.3, but exactly what that will do is up in the air.
[21:21:26] <micges> ok
[21:21:29] <jepler> my main interest is XYZBC like max5 but I will try not to foreclose other machine configurations
[21:22:25] <skunkworks_> ds2 - you at the fest?
[21:22:46] <micges> what is difference between xyzab and xyzbc ?
[21:23:06] <micges> (I'm only programmer of xyz for now ;)
[21:23:21] <toastyde1th> spindle orientation
[21:23:33] <toastyde1th> there's no practical difference except convention.
[21:24:19] <toastyde1th> xyzbc tends to be a vertical mill or turn/mill, and xyzab tends to be a horizontal
[21:24:31] <toastyde1th> note the tends, it's really however you want to set it up in the control.
[21:25:19] <micges> toastyde1th: thanks
[21:29:25] <micges> what age is the youngest emc fest member ?
[21:32:14] <ds2> no
[21:37:42] <alex_joni> hi guys
[21:38:38] <chr0n1c> yo alex_joni
[21:41:07] <alex_joni> hey chr0n1c, how goes it?
[21:41:26] <micges> bye
[21:53:12] <chr0n1c> good, alex_joni, thanks for asking...
[21:55:17] <chr0n1c> ... everything ok there/
[22:00:29] <alex_joni> chr0n1c: yeah, loads busy
[22:00:38] <alex_joni> (and it's close to 1am.. so I'm beat for today)
[22:00:51] <alex_joni> <- off to bed
[22:00:54] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:06:29] <chr0n1c> cya
[22:21:54] <dmess> hi all
[22:38:06] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[22:55:08] <tomp> well that was weird, the ps2 mouse kept selecting the session and dragging its tab ( pigeon on ubuntu/emc2 8.04) , even 'tearing' it off to a separate window. changing to a usb mouse seems to have fixed it.
[23:09:23] <DanielFalck> how did Ray's classes go?
[23:09:33] <jepler> DanielFalck: well, he says
[23:09:43] <DanielFalck> good
[23:09:47] <DanielFalck> hi Ray
[23:10:34] <jepler> today they did a tiny bit of hal from scratch (load parport, make some LEDs turn on and look at some switch states), among other things
[23:10:39] <jepler> I'll pass along the greeting
[23:11:00] <DanielFalck> thanks
[23:12:43] <rayh> Hi DanielFalck Thanks for the thoughts.
[23:13:31] <DanielFalck> hi rayh- wish I was there
[23:13:40] <dmess> likewise..
[23:13:45] <rayh> That would be really great.
[23:14:22] <DanielFalck> are there lots of people interested in EMC?
[23:14:25] <rayh> IMO the whole EMC2 bunch is doing great stuff.
[23:14:49] <DanielFalck> are you training (indoctrinating) lots of newbies?
[23:14:53] <rayh> There is an amazing level of camaraderie among all of us.
[23:15:15] <dmess> any machine tool reps been around?? asking questions??
[23:15:31] <rayh> We have penguins at each entrance. Once inside they are infected.
[23:15:31] <DanielFalck> boris probably would scare them off
[23:15:56] <DanielFalck> haa!
[23:16:15] <rayh> I've got a dozen or so in the classes. I think things are going really well.
[23:16:21] <DanielFalck> great
[23:16:35] <dmess> beautiful.... i love it when a plan comes together....
[23:16:58] <DanielFalck> are the mach3 guys being friendly to the emc group?
[23:17:08] <DanielFalck> as in friendly competition
[23:17:23] <dmess> even if its someone else's ... means it CAN happen.. again
[23:22:50] <rayh> what's Mach3?
[23:23:03] <DanielFalck> a razor, right?
[23:23:43] <DanielFalck> I think Brian from mach2/mach3 fame is there
[23:24:40] <dmess> lurkin'
[23:50:51] <dmess> i feel a need... a need for speed..... looks like in PEI bound this weekend...... pricey but i think i'll treat myself..... gotta look into it in the AM