#emc | Logs for 2008-06-14

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[00:27:42] <chr0n1c> please add an "are you sure you want to quit?" option for emc if there isn't one.. lol
[00:28:20] <chr0n1c> is there something like that i can turn on?
[00:29:14] <archivist> that would depend on how you send a quit and to which program
[00:29:45] <chr0n1c> axis, and i have accidentally hit the x a few times...
[00:29:55] <chr0n1c> :| don't ask how.. it just happens
[00:29:57] <chr0n1c> lol
[00:30:32] <chr0n1c> would it be a few lines of python that needs added to the axis scripts?
[00:30:52] <archivist> or edit the key table
[00:32:08] <chr0n1c> i'm talking the [x] in the corner to close the window
[00:32:26] <chr0n1c> i found a wway to do it in java on google.. still looking at python
[00:34:04] <cradek> you've accidentally clicked the X in the corner?
[00:34:20] <chr0n1c> yessir!
[00:34:27] <cradek> how is that possible!?
[00:34:48] <chr0n1c> once i dropped something on my desk, slammed the mouse cursor to the corner then it fell on the button in the middle of a program
[00:35:00] <chr0n1c> and jsut now i slipped and hit it when i was reaching for the mouse
[00:35:19] <cradek> dang, you need to be more careful if you're controlling a machine
[00:35:28] <chr0n1c> yes, i know...
[00:35:37] <chr0n1c> it's a tiny machine though, lol
[00:35:46] <cradek> chr0n1c: are you sure you want to jog? [OK] [Cancel]
[00:35:57] <chr0n1c> rofl
[00:35:58] <cradek> heh
[00:36:32] <chr0n1c> really though, i'm searching google for python bits.. i think i'm getting close
[00:36:54] <jmkasunich> hmm
[00:36:59] <archivist> today the x key tomorow the whole computer
[00:36:59] <chr0n1c> but still i wouldn't know where to add it... may take me 30 years of trying to figure out the script for axis
[00:37:17] <archivist> just be careful
[00:37:25] <chr0n1c> OR even better... make it not able to closeout when a program is running
[00:37:38] <jmkasunich> that's kind of what I was thinking
[00:37:54] <chr0n1c> if it's not running then it wouldn't matter if it closed... except if it was paused or maybe if you were holding a position for the next setup
[00:37:58] <jmkasunich> "if EMC is in 'machine-on', then prompt before shutting down"
[00:38:01] <archivist> no as with that carless attitude you may be hitting other keys
[00:38:11] <cradek> when a program is running, it grays out a lot of things, including (I think) file/quit
[00:38:26] <chr0n1c> [x] still works ;)
[00:38:34] <cradek> but archivist is saying what I was thinking but too polite to say
[00:38:44] <jmkasunich> [X] may be hard to circumvent
[00:39:02] <chr0n1c> i wasn't cutting anything.. just an ink pen clamped to the z and drawing my xr2206 function generator program on paper to confirm it'll be ok
[00:39:20] <chr0n1c> then i was going to cut it tomorrow afternoon after i get my pcb fixture done at work
[00:40:25] <chr0n1c> i agree with you both cradek and archivist... it'd still be nice to not have the program ever shut down if the machine is in motion
[00:40:38] <chr0n1c> at least when it's in motion
[00:41:22] <chr0n1c> don't get me wrong, i still get wet when i open up axis and get to run my own cnc machine at home ;)
[00:41:25] <tomp> was the xr2206 the function gnr8r you mentioned before? what was the project site?
[00:41:36] <chr0n1c> nuxie1.com
[00:41:38] <jmkasunich> chr0n1c: TMI
[00:41:42] <chr0n1c> yeah, that project
[00:41:45] <tomp> thx
[00:42:15] <chr0n1c> i got the gcode for the xr2206 board if anyone wants it...
[00:42:20] <chr0n1c> verifying the layout now
[00:43:31] <chr0n1c> yeah my xr2206 chip got here today
[00:43:37] <chr0n1c> jameco is quick!
[00:43:53] <chr0n1c> and i think i got 4 free samples on the way from the manufacturer
[00:43:56] <chr0n1c> ;)
[00:44:09] <chr0n1c> think/should/hope
[00:45:01] <tomp> rats, i wanted digital(numeric) inputs, this is analog, so i cant specify exactly what the wave is. nice chip tho, will save for archive
[00:45:22] <chr0n1c> use digpots
[00:45:24] <chr0n1c> ;)
[00:45:39] <chr0n1c> digipots in place of the analog pots
[00:45:55] <chr0n1c> that was my line of thinking
[00:46:01] <chr0n1c> i was gonna try anyways
[00:46:26] <chr0n1c> it responds to 1volt per octave control voltages anyways if that doesn't work
[00:47:06] <chr0n1c> in synth lingo thats "1v/Octave CV" i think
[00:50:39] <tomp> digitpots is digital in and sorta almost what you want out
[00:52:02] <chr0n1c> i've never used them and i thought it seemed like a neat idea this was gonna be my project to try some out
[00:53:49] <tomp> not a bad idea, i just need some pretty exact values, so back to ( god save me ) pic assembly language ( decfsz arg! )
[00:54:45] <cradek> I hate those skip instructions - they always seemed awkward to me.
[00:55:27] <archivist> hop skip and jump chip
[00:57:26] <tomp> if else then
[00:58:06] <archivist> NEC also had a skip instruction in the 7811, I have never liked the construct, but the PIC chips are cheap......
[00:58:26] <tomp> and keep track of the cycles so loops are alway 1uS multiples... take note of entry overhead, exit overhead
[00:59:29] <archivist> heh fun Ive done a few jobs where cycle counting was needed
[01:03:19] <chr0n1c> http://zetcode.com/wxpython/events/ <- would this be any help in keeping the window from closing?? about 1 quarter down the page... (i don't know what wxpython is) i jsut found it in my search
[01:20:52] <chr0n1c> hey did anyone see the thing on slashdot where nokia wants to add drm to QT?
[01:21:23] <chr0n1c> ... linux with DRM would be windows right?
[01:28:04] <cradek> linux with DRM would be easy to repair, since it's GPL
[01:28:42] <cradek> there's no reason why someone can't write DRM into GPL software, and also no reason why the next guy can't just remove it again
[01:29:45] <jmkasunich> Linux with DRM that achieves the goals of DRM would not be linux anymore
[01:29:55] <jmkasunich> since the goal of DRM is to take away freedom
[01:29:57] <gezr> drm all of that has a place, but they should have worked towards a socitial movement instead, now they are trying to patch the holes in a full rubber pool
[01:31:15] <gezr> jmkasunich: I think your partially right, the freedom to exchange what is supposed to be paid for work, may not be the right way to describe freedom, they could have done a lot of things differently however
[01:31:54] <jmkasunich> the freedom to do whatever you damned well please with your own computer is incompatible with schemes that would allow that computer to play locked content
[01:32:50] <gezr> yeah, thats the part your right about, im mainly talking about those who openly try to share stuff, that takes that freedom to do as we please with what we own away from ourselves
[01:33:05] <gezr> Ie the reaction to napster and all of that
[01:33:49] <chr0n1c> i agree with jmkasunich, it's my computer... i'll do what i want with it, IF i know how
[01:34:10] <gezr> I dont see anything wrong with that
[01:34:26] <jmkasunich> gets back to ethical locks vs technological locks
[01:34:36] <chr0n1c> sound is nobody's property, i don't care what the laws say...
[01:34:40] <gezr> drm and the riaa and all of that crap has spawned out the abuse of what was abused, they screwed up
[01:34:46] <chr0n1c> video/movie scripts may be a bit different
[01:35:07] <chr0n1c> in my mind.. but if you sell me a dvd i might copy it someday
[01:35:17] <chr0n1c> after all i DID PAY for the dvd
[01:35:33] <jmkasunich> just don't sell the copy
[01:35:35] <gezr> the only technology that has gotten more expensive, the cdrom
[01:35:51] <jmkasunich> and don't give 47 copies to all your friends
[01:36:23] <chr0n1c> i jsut got rid of windows because of all the drm junk and because i love emc2 ;) though i still have XP dual boot on my lappy for emergencies.. and a slow as dirt qemu copy of xp if i need it...
[01:36:55] <chr0n1c> but the last few weeks i haven't wanted windows back for any reason other than using MC9 and autocad
[01:37:00] <gezr> my personal view on all of it, is this, I will glady pay 50 bucks a year for the useage right to any form of published electronic music/video, and they wouldnt have to watch what I do, they wouldnt even have to worry about me getting it from someone sharing....
[01:37:26] <jmkasunich> "they" want a lot more than $50
[01:37:42] <gezr> they should make stuff worth more then the media its printed on then :)
[01:37:53] <gezr> but you see my point,
[01:38:00] <jmkasunich> I doubt if the music companies would even be happy with a "$50 per month, listen to anything" plan
[01:38:04] <jmkasunich> let along $50 per year
[01:38:11] <jmkasunich> alone
[01:38:54] <gezr> they didnt have to spend the money trying to find a way to protect that which cant really be protected, but they could have sold usage rights to folks for , and yeah, the price will never be enough, but 100 bucks or 50 a year from someone like me, is better then the jack squat they have been getting from me for the past 10 years
[01:40:14] <gezr> thats my solution to drm, instead of making it something computational, but make it something legal, ive got my music/video card from the riaa judge, it doesnt expire for another 3 months, I want this case dismissed now
[01:40:49] <gezr> real simple soulution, agree?
[01:41:55] <cradek> simple solution: I don't want their stuff on my computer anyway, and in return, they can go jump in a lake
[01:42:16] <jmkasunich> there you go
[01:42:32] <gezr> yeah, thats true as well, but ide rather by an agreement then put up with anything on my stuff, like you guys
[01:43:06] <cradek> much of it's now made for kids/teens and does not hold my interest anyway
[01:43:19] <jmkasunich> I simply won't buy or listen to anything that I can't play the way I want to
[01:43:29] <jmkasunich> if that means I have to listen to vinyl, so be it
[01:43:34] <gezr> im in 100% agreement with you guys on that
[01:43:42] <jmkasunich> I second what chris says about most music today anyway
[01:43:56] <cradek> I guess it's easy for me, if I don't want it anyway. If I was interested, I'd have to make the harder decisions.
[01:44:07] <chr0n1c> i'm listening to Dr. Dre - the chronic on vinyl RIGHT NOW!!! no kidding.. lol
[01:44:25] <chr0n1c> it's a two 12" set to get the whole album on
[01:44:27] <cradek> it's like blue-ball dvds or whatever they are. I don't care since I don't really like to watch movies much.
[01:44:31] <gezr> I just would rather pay a fee to cover my ass legaly then to go to the store to buy something that well for example, I want to get some pink floyd records, I cant afford them in a store anymore,
[01:44:43] <cradek> so, I don't have to buy a player, or a tv, or run windows on my laptop, or ...
[01:44:52] <jmkasunich> heh
[01:45:10] <gezr> exactly, they should have just made an open ended legal agreement, rather then start stuffing crap into software
[01:45:19] <chr0n1c> i got some eagles on vinyl and a few beatles on 12 inchers
[01:46:15] <gezr> buah, its just a crooked business anyway
[01:46:40] <chr0n1c> so on the cnc subject... this function generator board looks like it's a go... the cnc traces on paper look SWEET! time for production
[01:47:06] <chr0n1c> i'm doing a video of the pen on paper cnc test for this board...
[01:47:16] <chr0n1c> it'll be on youtube soon
[01:47:29] <chr0n1c> it'll be DRM FREE!
[01:47:32] <chr0n1c> ;)
[01:48:38] <PMinMO> Hi guys, is there a button on Axis to tell all axis to goto 0.0?
[01:49:04] <PMinMO> clarify, move the machine to 0.0
[01:49:05] <cradek> what exactly do you mean "goto 0.0"
[01:49:09] <cradek> ah
[01:49:20] <cradek> no, but there is a gcode: g28 (or g30)
[01:49:36] <cradek> if you have not set a reference position the default is machine 0,0,0 (,0,0,0,0,0,0)
[01:50:22] <chr0n1c> in mdi mode you can do g0x0y0z0
[01:50:32] <PMinMO> my home switches are at offset positions, and when I setup a workpiece I usually set one or two axis manually anyway
[01:50:48] <PMinMO> No absolute encoders
[01:50:50] <cradek> yes chr0n1c has a point: which 0,0 do you mean
[01:51:14] <PMinMO> yes g0 x0 y0 z0
[01:51:28] <chr0n1c> you don't need the spaces.. extra typing ;)
[01:51:32] <cradek> ok you have home switches, and you use touch-off to set a work origin
[01:51:50] <cradek> which 0,0 do you want to go to? the work origin or the machine origin?
[01:52:16] <PMinMO> actually I'm confusing two questions.
[01:52:18] <cradek> (but there is no button for either function)
[01:52:46] <PMinMO> one is to tell the machine the current location is 0.0 on a specific axis
[01:52:49] <chr0n1c> i use the g0x0y0z0 to go to my home pos when i am done touching off
[01:53:11] <cradek> PMinMO: that's "touch off"
[01:53:13] <chr0n1c> or before running a program
[01:53:35] <chr0n1c> i meant touch off on my part**
[01:53:38] <PMinMO> not familiar with the term
[01:53:45] <cradek> PMinMO: pick the axis you want to set, poke touch off button, accept 0 as the default or type another number
[01:53:59] <PMinMO> got it tnx
[01:54:08] <cradek> often it's done with an edge finder "touching" the work or vise, this is why it's called touch off
[01:54:11] <chr0n1c> touch off means use your edge finder or wiggler or whatever you have to do in machine shop world...
[01:54:25] <PMinMO> makes sense
[01:54:39] <PMinMO> the other is the machine is at some location
[01:54:57] <PMinMO> and I want to simple tell it to move all axis to 0.0
[01:55:08] <PMinMO> i.e. G00X0Y0Z0
[01:55:22] <chr0n1c> g28 is home right?
[01:55:33] <PMinMO> home isn't 0
[01:55:37] <cradek> g28 is move to "reference point"
[01:55:40] <chr0n1c> err whatever the home gcode is.. you jsut need to pubch that once in mdi
[01:55:45] <chr0n1c> then you can click it after that
[01:55:46] <cradek> home is a confusing term, let's avoid it
[01:55:52] <cradek> there are many origins
[01:56:19] <chr0n1c> word...
[01:56:41] <PMinMO> my physical switches to tell the absolute location of an axis - home in that sense
[01:56:57] <PMinMO> are a defined positions other than 0
[01:57:11] <cradek> yes home switches (and the act of HOMING) sets the machine origin
[01:57:13] <PMinMO> hal home location isnt 0.0
[01:57:41] <PMinMO> on any axis
[01:57:53] <cradek> brb
[01:58:07] <PMinMO> ?
[01:58:10] <chr0n1c> i've got one of my home switches set to estop hanging from my wall right now... i don't have an estop pin....
[01:58:16] <chr0n1c> :(
[01:59:33] <PMinMO> as example my z Home is up (away from workpiece) at 3.00
[02:00:18] <chr0n1c> i think you could make a button for any position with pyvcp right?
[02:01:10] <chr0n1c> you oculd use that for your need, if i am right from my remembering of what i breezed past in the emc2 .pdfs, PMinMO
[02:01:50] <chr0n1c> g0x0y0z0 works for all my needs in MDI so i haven't gone any farther than that
[02:02:07] <PMinMO> i think i'm ok, just still fumbling around the whole gui
[02:03:17] <PMinMO> but so far I really like EMC2's performance
[02:03:28] <chr0n1c> g0zo
[02:03:28] <chr0n1c> g0x0y0 <- two lines would also work.. do Z first
[02:03:37] <chr0n1c> if it's above the part anyways
[02:04:13] <chr0n1c> yeah i couldn't be happier with the EMC2 set-up i have going
[02:04:44] <chr0n1c> i'm just using a small cheap stepper system, it's slow but it does everything
[02:05:08] <PMinMO> Ubuntu and wireless vs location has always been my issue.
[02:05:27] <PMinMO> cheap steppers thats all I have...:-)
[02:05:38] <chr0n1c> wireless is just not a good idea if you ask me unless it's a tv remote...
[02:06:44] <PMinMO> yea if there were security concerns
[02:07:22] <chr0n1c> you already have 1billion rf whatever going through your body.. why create more if you don't have to?
[02:07:45] <chr0n1c> rf frequencies...
[02:07:52] <PMinMO> true
[02:08:03] <chr0n1c> tv, radio, shortwave, police radios, cell signals...
[02:08:16] <chr0n1c> it's all there... (no i don't wear a foil helmet)
[02:08:28] <chr0n1c> lol...
[02:09:19] <PMinMO> free air levels are really low except with cell phones
[02:10:59] <PMinMO> cell phones are a couple of watts an inch from your brain
[02:12:59] <chr0n1c> yeah.. no celly here, i don't need to talk to anyone when i am in the restroom...
[02:13:16] <chr0n1c> or on a bus, or in the woods...
[02:13:21] <chr0n1c> or in my car...
[02:15:25] <PMinMO> I think most of the home based wireless routers and adapters in a few hundred milliwats
[02:15:59] <PMinMO> another question about the CNCworkshop
[02:16:43] <renesis> okay guys guys
[02:16:48] <PMinMO> I maybe bringing a small low cost USB motion controller.
[02:17:00] <renesis> i has a question, because i think answer is 'both ways' but im not sure and i forgot on the other machines i used
[02:17:04] <renesis> okok
[02:17:20] <PMinMO> fits in a db25 backshell
[02:17:35] <renesis> so tool offsets, are they usually a positive value indicating the length of the tool in the tool holder
[02:17:38] <renesis> OR
[02:17:50] <renesis> are they usually a offset from a machine Z reference?
[02:18:06] <renesis> which, pls2say, ty
[02:19:55] <PMinMO> I'm not a machinist, so take my answer accordinly, offsets can be cutter, or fixture or combination
[02:20:27] <PMinMO> they establish a known new set of origins
[02:29:10] <chr0n1c> offsets are used for cnc parts on 3 different cises from 1 program
[02:29:15] <chr0n1c> sometimes***
[02:29:22] <chr0n1c> vises even...
[02:29:40] <chr0n1c> i need to get a meyboard with paint on the letters
[02:29:47] <chr0n1c> keyboard*
[02:29:49] <chr0n1c> :|
[02:30:59] <chr0n1c> the e, o, d, s, l, m, n keys are all worn off on my keyboard.
[02:31:05] <chr0n1c> sweet!
[02:47:22] <renesis> pminmo: no not for origins
[02:47:35] <renesis> not the workspace or machine coordinate system
[02:47:54] <renesis> the offsets for the tools themselves
[02:48:31] <renesis> there will usually be a table with tool diamaters and tool offset/length and then sometimes tool wear compensation stuff
[02:50:13] <renesis> but is it an absolute tool length value that is used for calculating the different offsets, or the distance from a relative machine Z position
[02:54:23] <chr0n1c> itool offsets are length and left or right and sometimes wear
[02:54:33] <chr0n1c> -i
[02:55:40] <chr0n1c> *at least in the controls i have used...
[02:56:14] <chr0n1c> tip compensation for drill bits might be thrown in there
[03:00:59] <renesis> okay yeah i know they have X/Y values but im not gonna use thoe
[03:01:09] <renesis> because really wtf is that all about
[03:02:08] <renesis> tho, the router thing at new jobthing has some multihead driller thing, thats not part of the main spindle
[03:02:29] <renesis> no idea whats up with that, maybe have to use X/Y offsets
[03:02:49] <renesis> the current operator was trained by old guy, speaks zero english, is no help
[03:09:10] <PMinMO> http://www.cncsnw.com/OLEM.htm
[03:36:37] <tomp> this is interesting for dds http://designtools.analog.com/dtDDSWeb/dtDDSMain.aspx?part=AD9835
[03:37:45] <toastydeath> that's a really inexperienced guy writing that olem page
[03:38:02] <toastydeath> he is making something really simple very complicated
[03:42:28] <chr0n1c> on my milltronics control i would have each tool in a numbered holder... the machine held a lot of tools... all i had to do was put "t1" or "Tsome#" and it would go to tool change position wait for me to hit cycle start then compensate on it's way back to run the program
[03:43:40] <toastydeath> T#/m6 behavior is heavily machine dependant
[03:43:49] <chr0n1c> all i ever had to do was touch off each endmill or drill chuck once.. unless i broke a tool or something changed on the holder
[03:45:11] <chr0n1c> i'm talking like i had a quarter inch roughing endmill i would use in 50 different programs in a solid holder and i only touched it off once ever in the machine tool table and it worked that way forever... or you could input a different length AT the tool change program stop
[03:45:46] <toastydeath> chr0n1c: that's one way to do it, if you use the same tools over and over and have a large magazine.
[03:46:53] <chr0n1c> for the smaller machines , a tool length input at the tool change stop would be nice
[03:47:24] <chr0n1c> or a touch of in z with jog and the zero button working during a tool change
[03:47:24] <toastydeath> controls for small machines usually have that feature.
[03:47:48] <toastydeath> or at least the two knee mills we have will prompt you. both lack toolchangers.
[03:48:13] <chr0n1c> is m6 what promtps you in emc?
[03:48:19] <toastydeath> no idea?
[03:48:28] <toastydeath> t# is supposed to be a toolchanger command only
[03:48:30] <chr0n1c> hmm back to gcode reference
[03:48:40] <chr0n1c> i was trying to figure that out the other day
[03:48:41] <toastydeath> m6 is supposed to be the actual command to make the machine switch tools
[03:49:11] <toastydeath> so if you've got a random-style toolchanger, T1 just commands the toolchanger to move without anything else
[03:49:24] <toastydeath> so as soon as you enter m6, the machine goes to the toolchange ref point and makes the swap
[03:49:40] <toastydeath> then you feed it another T# to get the next tool ready.
[03:49:54] <chr0n1c> ahhh
[03:50:04] <chr0n1c> it's been a long time since i programmed for multi tools
[03:50:07] <renesis> yeah i dont thnk i cant touch off to set tooling
[03:50:17] <renesis> procedures in the manual are all like, put tool in collet
[03:50:25] <renesis> put tool holder on surface plate
[03:50:41] <renesis> measure tips of the tool and use the highest point, enter this into the tool table
[03:51:12] <chr0n1c> what kind of control does it have?
[03:51:13] <renesis> im like fu, ill measute with tme machine first and just subtract, stupid failcontroller
[03:51:24] <renesis> something on windows thts ugly and i think pink
[03:51:31] <chr0n1c> pink sucks!
[03:51:32] <renesis> its like, to quit, hit alt+F4
[03:51:36] <toastydeath> i'd be willing to bet like, 10ish dollars that you can do it however you want
[03:51:38] <chr0n1c> unless it's wet pink
[03:51:41] <renesis> im like, wow elaborate
[03:51:42] <chr0n1c> :|
[03:51:56] <chr0n1c> lol @ 10ish
[03:51:57] <renesis> toastydeath: its opposite
[03:52:11] <renesis> lengths vs offsets from a fixed point
[03:52:21] <toastydeath> the machine doesn't know that
[03:52:28] <renesis> the longest tools would travel the least distance
[03:52:42] <chr0n1c> is the fixed point from the spindle end?
[03:52:46] <chr0n1c> or from the table?
[03:52:59] <renesis> fixed point relative to the machine
[03:53:00] <chr0n1c> either way you could set a height gauge up there and check it that way
[03:53:08] <toastydeath> renesis: all machines have a "fixed point"
[03:53:35] <toastydeath> that doesn't mean you're limited to one specific way to touch tools off that some manual recommends
[03:53:56] <renesis> okay look, if you have a long tool, you wont travel far, you get small value
[03:53:57] <chr0n1c> i heart manuals
[03:54:04] <renesis> small tool, longer value
[03:54:09] <toastydeath> yep
[03:54:14] <renesis> yeah the manual wants lengths
[03:54:27] <renesis> so long tool, long value, short tool, short value
[03:54:33] <renesis> see how thats opposite?
[03:54:44] <renesis> unless you bust some subtraction first
[03:54:54] <chr0n1c> it's measuring from z home switch or something
[03:55:16] <toastydeath> it's using positive values, correct?
[03:55:19] <renesis> well fine whatever, it wants it to be spindle relative referenced
[03:55:24] <renesis> yeh
[03:55:37] <toastydeath> that means it's bumping the Z axis reference point up rather than down
[03:55:53] <toastydeath> and I maintain again you can do it on any machine, unless i'm missing something critical
[03:56:08] <toastydeath> because you should have both g43 and g44
[03:56:16] <toastydeath> and you should be able to enter both positive and negative values
[03:56:18] <renesis> yeah im pretty sure its two seperate uncompatible systems
[03:56:42] <toastydeath> then you bring any tool down to the work zero, right?
[03:56:48] <renesis> both are relate the tools to each other, of course
[03:57:01] <renesis> but i think its like opposite, in a polar way
[03:57:18] <toastydeath> renesis: after you enter the height values, you bring one tool down
[03:57:21] <renesis> yes and set a work zero
[03:57:26] <toastydeath> yeah, that's the exact same system dude.
[03:57:40] <toastydeath> they're two ways of dealing with the exact same set of offsets.
[03:57:59] <renesis> im not sure, kinda think no
[03:58:05] <toastydeath> i am positive.
[03:58:18] <toastydeath> i will attempt to prove it thusly:
[03:58:18] <renesis> its conceptually the same because it just references the tools of each other really, and then you set the Z for the job
[03:58:27] <renesis> but i think the final values might be inverse
[03:58:46] <toastydeath> You have you length offset, which is added to Z using g43.
[03:59:02] <toastydeath> in your case, you enter a large, positive value that represents the length of the tool to the offset.
[03:59:22] <renesis> not on my machine, sir
[03:59:34] <toastydeath> you said long value, long tool, right?
[03:59:41] <renesis> G40, G41, G42, yeh no more G40
[03:59:47] <renesis> yes
[03:59:49] <toastydeath> g43
[03:59:49] <toastydeath> ?
[04:00:02] <chr0n1c> solution: 1 program for each tool.
[04:00:08] <toastydeath> listen
[04:00:11] <renesis> haha no rly
[04:00:19] <toastydeath> you are bumping the spindle reference point UP by the length of the tool.
[04:00:32] <toastydeath> then you bring it back down using the Z value of the work coordinate system.
[04:00:36] <renesis> ok
[04:00:37] <toastydeath> this brings all the tools into the same plane.
[04:00:45] <chr0n1c> what toastydeath is trying to say.. it's a negative positive number
[04:00:46] <toastydeath> If you leave the Z point at 0
[04:00:58] <toastydeath> and bring your tool down, and look at the machine Z absolute value
[04:01:05] <toastydeath> and enter that as a negative number instead of your positive
[04:01:10] <toastydeath> you achieve the SAME thing.
[04:01:19] <toastydeath> it's the same system, just different directions.
[04:01:27] <toastydeath> I can do what you are doing on all the machines at work.
[04:01:46] <renesis> im not doing shit, thats what the manual says
[04:01:55] <toastydeath> just a matter of entering positive values that represent tool length rather than distance remaning to the surface of the part for that tool.
[04:02:25] <renesis> okay but then youd be entering negative values for offsets
[04:02:28] <toastydeath> yep
[04:02:28] <renesis> touchng off
[04:02:45] <renesis> okay that makes sense
[04:02:55] <renesis> manual is like, thow in some surface late and measure
[04:02:57] <toastydeath> same system of numbers, just using them differently.
[04:03:09] <renesis> im like, haha if theres even calipers in the shop, its because i brought mine from home
[04:03:13] <renesis> crazy wood people
[04:03:14] <toastydeath> lol
[04:03:46] <renesis> theyre like 3/8 im like, yeh .375, theyre like, NO 3/8, im like yeh .375, theyre like NO... oh wait hmmm
[04:04:01] <toastydeath> lol nothing is more out of place than a hardcore woodworking guy in a machine shop
[04:04:22] <toastydeath> other than like a mary kay salesman i suppose
[04:04:35] <renesis> dude they hand me horribly under or overdefined sketched like, HAI CAD THIS K THX
[04:05:05] <renesis> when im done its like O YA HAI DO WE HAVE 120" SHEETS OF OF WOOD? YA RLY SEE YOUR DRAWING IS FAIL
[04:05:08] <toastydeath> hahahah.
[04:05:37] <renesis> so its not really a programming job as much as a design and programming job, heh
[04:06:20] <toastydeath> that doesn't sound like fun if you're trying to progam a machine that wants definate values from a hand sketch that has one of the dimensions as "in this general location"
[04:06:57] <renesis> well, kinda if its from my design and the guy is basically like, HMMMM OKAY YEAH SEE THIS NAPKIN AND THIS PIC? PLS HALP K
[04:07:22] <renesis> cuz i work from autocad and export to the CAM thing
[04:07:58] <renesis> alphacam, kinda goofy UI, took a couple hours and the software manual to get it to pop out codes
[04:08:17] <toastydeath> lol
[04:08:25] <renesis> is like 1000 icon buttons and not enough status feedback
[04:08:34] <renesis> so you do shit but youre not really sure if it happened
[04:08:54] <renesis> and if theres a status/property display dialog, besides XY points, i cant find it yet
[04:09:42] <toastydeath> hahahahah
[04:09:45] <toastydeath> that sucks
[04:09:59] <chr0n1c> everyone should email mastercam to have them open source it
[04:10:17] <chr0n1c> mastercam is like the icing on the cnc machine cake
[04:10:34] <chr0n1c> and i think they should make it free ;)
[04:10:35] <renesis> this doesnt seem so bad
[04:10:46] <renesis> one of my fav apps is eagle pcb editor
[04:10:52] <toastydeath> lol i am sure they will find that arguement as compelling as you do, chr0n1c
[04:10:57] <renesis> and its UI is like fucking 2 year learning curve
[04:11:12] <renesis> its the only app i know where the CUT tool doesnt make shit go away
[04:11:17] <chr0n1c> i been playing with eagle... i figured out the g-code from .brd files
[04:11:29] <renesis> so yeah as long as end results is good, i dont care about UI
[04:11:46] <renesis> cad/cam/eda UI is usually custom and pretty hacked to shit
[04:12:06] <renesis> yeah it ignores your Z feed parameter
[04:12:16] <chr0n1c> i picked up eagle pretty quick i guess because i'm a geek and because of the previous ""every cad app under the sun" toying around
[04:12:21] <renesis> unless they fixed that and broke something else
[04:12:35] <renesis> yeah but did you really pick it up?
[04:12:40] <renesis> or just get it to make a board?
[04:12:52] <chr0n1c> i could design a board...
[04:13:04] <renesis> theres a huge diff, like i was using it functinally 2 years ago, but my skills were like, silly then, compared to now
[04:13:06] <chr0n1c> i did a few quick schematics of random parts and made my own board
[04:13:20] <renesis> have you made your own parts yet?
[04:13:36] <chr0n1c> i just recorded a video of me doing my first cnc program
[04:13:36] <toastydeath> you kids and your crazy CAM
[04:13:42] <renesis> because that is truly the initiation to the hell that is advanced eagle
[04:13:51] <chr0n1c> from nuxie1.com 's function generator board
[04:14:19] <chr0n1c> i have the xr2206 chip in hand.. i'm scrounging for the rest of the parts ;)
[04:14:30] <renesis> i wont use eagle part libs
[04:14:43] <chr0n1c> i did a pen/paper test on my mill table, it turned out great...
[04:14:57] <chr0n1c> i am going into work tomorrow to make my pcb fisture plate...
[04:15:00] <renesis> because the symbols are ugly, and the footrints are often hackish and not very precise
[04:15:07] <renesis> its all user contrib, its all crap
[04:15:09] <chr0n1c> and i'll be able to use that for engraving flat things as well
[04:15:18] <renesis> i made all my own, even passives and DIP and shit
[04:15:35] <chr0n1c> i been browsing the web for a lm386 lib
[04:15:47] <JymmmEMC> renesis: you made a dipshit? Poor kid.
[04:15:55] <chr0n1c> what i haven't figured out is how to make my own parts from a chip datasheet
[04:15:59] <chr0n1c> lol
[04:15:59] <renesis> dip and shit
[04:16:09] <renesis> *and*, please to note
[04:16:16] <JymmmEMC> dip & shit = dipshit
[04:16:29] <renesis> no it means dip and other very very simle footprints and stuff
[04:16:33] <chr0n1c> you been drinking JymmmEMC
[04:16:33] <renesis> *simple
[04:16:35] <chr0n1c> ??
[04:16:41] <chr0n1c> lol
[04:16:47] <renesis> but yeah i wont use any eagle footprints
[04:17:01] <JymmmEMC> renesis: Yeah, till it to your DIPDHIT Kid when s/he's about to toss your ass into an old folks home!
[04:17:03] <chr0n1c> you got a lib for the lm386 amp chip?
[04:17:07] <renesis> for draft designs for layouts tests, ill use footprints from ref-packages
[04:17:09] <JymmmEMC> s/till/tell/
[04:17:16] <renesis> but by final design ill replace them
[04:17:24] <renesis> i wont have kids
[04:17:34] <renesis> i have single and dual opamp libs
[04:17:42] <renesis> you can just rename them LM386
[04:18:17] <JymmmEMC> You're now gonna rename your dipshit kid LM386?! Damn
[04:18:18] <renesis> im kinda working out a lib spec, because im all obsessive about consistency
[04:18:43] <renesis> i decided now im not putting >VALUE in any more of my pcb footprints
[04:19:03] <renesis> because rly, i never use it, and shit is annoying when you turn on and off the silk and it autmatically toggles it
[04:19:13] <renesis> i dont think anyone uses the pcb values
[04:19:22] <renesis> except for really very simple boards
[04:20:01] <renesis> but yeah i has a collection of basic libs stuff, phere
[04:20:51] <renesis> and im working on a panasonic electrolytic lib, with all values and sizes of NHG, FC, FM, and the SMT FC and i think VR?
[04:21:06] <renesis> ive only done FM tho because im lazy =(
[04:21:06] <chr0n1c> that sounds like a lot of work, lol
[04:21:20] <renesis> kinda but ill use those parts prob 100 times
[04:21:24] <renesis> plus also many other people
[04:22:52] <K`zan> Anyone know where the tool table is kept and what it might be called?
[04:25:39] <K`zan> Never mind - found it.
[04:28:14] <chr0n1c> renesis: here is the board i just did the test run on paper http://ohiopctech.com/dp/?q=node/136
[04:28:18] <chr0n1c> **pic
[04:29:15] <renesis> neat
[04:42:21] <chr0n1c> neat like a nipple?
[04:45:59] <chr0n1c> i retract the nipple question, my apologies
[04:48:03] <toastydeath> you retract the nipple?
[04:53:03] <chr0n1c> http://cq.cx/sketchflat.pl <-- check out sketchflat
[04:53:13] <chr0n1c> looks interesting
[04:53:23] <chr0n1c> cad/cam?
[04:53:29] <toastydeath> wut
[04:53:33] <toastydeath> i dunno i use solidworks
[04:53:51] <toastydeath> i launched autocad the other day and i was like "what am i even doing"
[04:55:29] <chr0n1c> solidworks is pretty slick for 3d
[04:55:43] <toastydeath> it can even do 3d 2d.
[04:56:11] <toastydeath> unfolding solids/surfaces etc
[04:56:24] <chr0n1c> http://cq.cx/ladder.pl <-- ladder logic on a pic or avr
[04:57:07] <toastydeath> lol
[04:59:02] <chr0n1c> i'd say 10 bucks for a pic would be a nice alternative to an allen bradley plc on small machines/robot cells
[05:20:24] <K`zan> Well, ran it now to get the drawing and see how close it came. From the looks of it not real close at all :-./,
[05:36:02] <chr0n1c> what di dya run K`zan?
[05:36:40] <K`zan> My NEMA23 mounting plate experiment...
[05:36:51] <K`zan> Numbers do not work out righ :-(.
[05:37:08] <K`zan> Looks like it might have cut on the outside of the holes, not sure yet, checking.
[05:37:36] <K`zan> boss s/b 0.7525 and is 0.8205
[05:38:23] <K`zan> 0.0955 larger than it should be.
[05:39:06] <K`zan> Cutter diameter is 0.1065 / 2 is 0.05325
[05:39:57] <K`zan> adding that to the desired size is still only 0.80575 and...
[05:40:53] <K`zan> Sigh, dunno, may well be that much slop in x and y. Time to look into that.
[05:41:10] <K`zan> Interesting to note that centers seem to be very(!) close to right though.
[05:42:00] <K`zan> At least it got them in the right places if not the right size, I suppose that is encouraging.
[05:42:39] <K`zan> Take those numbers and apply them to what I actually want and things might work out. Wonder if it might be constant. Guess more runs will confirm that.
[05:42:53] <K`zan> Encouraging anyway!
[05:43:36] <chr0n1c> heck yeah
[05:44:43] <K`zan> Interesting that the little nubbie left in the middle of the mounting hole position seems to be a very close match to a #10 screw....
[05:47:40] <chr0n1c> got a page for your machine?
[05:58:30] <K`zan> chr0n1c: Yes, hold a sec.
[05:58:56] <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/MyMachineShop/PipeDreamMill/
[05:59:15] <K`zan> None of this thing I cut tonight. May get to that tomorrow.
[05:59:26] <K`zan> Beat, gonna go fall over. Night all.
[06:00:09] <chr0n1c> wild machine setup K`zan
[06:07:06] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c is running make on the latest gcam source
[06:07:36] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c just ate a mini pizza
[11:39:05] <Rugludallur> alex_joni: you there by any chance ?
[12:59:36] <jepler> * jepler hits the road
[13:04:14] <BigJohnT> have a safe trip
[13:04:43] <als> could someone fire up the logger
[13:05:21] <BigJohnT> what does that do
[13:06:56] <als> sorry looks like its running my page just did not load right
[13:07:48] <als> BigJohnT, what does what do?
[13:08:01] <BigJohnT> fire up the logger
[13:08:36] <als> logs all of IRCs content #emc
[13:09:21] <BigJohnT> ok, I'm just not awake yet :)
[13:09:42] <als> most everyone on the road?
[13:10:03] <BigJohnT> seems like a lot left yesterday after work
[13:13:43] <BigJohnT> I wanted to go and show my plasma cutter but I have three machines to finish building and deliver by the end of the month and I'm sure there are more undocumented features left to be discovered
[13:16:22] <als> I would like to go myself but many other things must come first
[14:10:47] <^Fritz> Just as a curiosity, does any know of a way to measure temperature using parallel port inputs?
[14:14:22] <JymmmEMC> dallas one wire theral chip
[14:15:02] <JymmmEMC> http://howto.wikia.com/wiki/Howto_configure_the_Linux_kernel/drivers/w1
[14:15:35] <JymmmEMC> http://oww.sourceforge.net/
[14:18:39] <JymmmEMC> OK, I lied...3wire =) http://www.phanderson.com/printer/ds1620/ds1620.html
[14:20:26] <tomp> great midwest weather today, biggest danger is not wearing sunglasses. be careful driving :)
[17:26:34] <alex_mobile> Anyone around?
[17:42:53] <LawrenceG> I need to know how to keep a bridgeport in a canoe while paddling to the emc fest... hmmm
[17:44:32] <alex_mobile> :)
[17:46:15] <alex_mobile> Writing from my mobile phone... Pretty nice
[17:47:13] <alex_mobile> Keys are a bit small, but other than that it-s quite fun.
[17:52:07] <LawrenceG> good alfternoon alex
[17:54:55] <alex_mobile> Hi lawrenceg
[18:01:54] <LawrenceG> are you on your way to fest?
[18:07:35] <alex_mobile_> Got disconnected :(
[18:08:08] <LawrenceG> are you on your way to fest?
[18:10:45] <alex_mobile_> Heh, i wish...
[18:11:35] <LawrenceG> me too.... but its a long trip across the continent
[18:11:45] <alex_mobile_> Couldn`t make it this year.
[18:12:09] <alex_mobile_> A bit farther from here
[18:12:54] <LawrenceG> I hope they get the webcam working again... its fun to put faces to all the names we see scroll by
[18:13:57] <LawrenceG> I am busy trying to wrap my head around intializing a flat bed scanner chip.... 128 regs to set before it can do anything...
[18:14:01] <alex_mobile_> right, I really hope to make it next year
[18:14:44] <alex_mobile_> ouch
[18:15:42] <LawrenceG> I have the sane scanner code as an example, but it is way more complicated than I need
[18:19:04] <alex_mobile_> I really like jmIrc
[18:19:42] <LawrenceG> never tried it... using xchat on the desktop here
[18:20:48] <alex_mobile_> First i tried a java ssh client, but it only knows vt320, and my screen didnt reattach
[18:21:38] <alex_mobile_> LawrenceG: surfing from my cellphone here
[18:21:59] <LawrenceG> dont get thumb cramps :}
[18:22:12] <alex_mobile_> Sony-Ericsson w880i
[18:22:34] <alex_mobile_> Heh
[18:39:58] <alex_mobile_> alex_mobile_ is now known as alex-mobile
[19:09:49] <alex_mobile> Hello again
[19:15:23] <renesis> 10:49 < LawrenceG> I need to know how to keep a bridgeport in a canoe while paddling to the emc fest... hmmm
[19:15:31] <renesis> omg dont do it!
[19:16:29] <renesis> and im sure the bridgeport wont fall out of the canoe when the canoe is pinned under it on the river floor
[19:16:47] <renesis> it is probably very secure like this
[20:01:59] <kirk_wallace> Hello, I am trying to figure out how the tool change prompt comes up for manual tool changes. I remember a sample configuration that had it but now I can't find it and a search on manual tool change doesn't bring up any good hits. Anyone recall the configuration or a link?
[20:04:23] <alex_joni> kirk_wallace: stepper or sim has it
[20:05:13] <alex_joni> too bad he left..
[20:05:15] <alex_joni> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/configs/common/axis_manualtoolchange.hal?rev=1.2
[20:06:03] <kirk_wallace> Thanks Alex
[20:07:29] <alex_joni> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/configs/common/axis_manualtoolchange.hal?rev=1.2
[20:21:15] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:21:34] <alex_joni> kirk_wallace: by default that file is in configs/common, but after a regular make it gets copied to the needed cofnigs
[20:28:45] <kirk_wallace> I get "standard_pinout.hal:27: pin 'hal_manualtoolchange.change' does not exist"
[20:29:07] <kirk_wallace> I guess I need to load a function?
[20:32:57] <kirk_wallace> Oops, I missed the "loadusr -W hal_manualtoolchange"
[20:35:03] <kirk_wallace> Now it Axis just hangs on a tool change.
[20:41:22] <BigJohnT> is that what you expect?
[20:42:03] <kirk_wallace> No, I wanted a popup that asks me to change the tool.
[20:43:12] <BigJohnT> are you manually inserting the code for the tool change?
[20:44:32] <BigJohnT> in the hal file?
[20:45:36] <kirk_wallace> I am trying to add it to the sample stepper_inch config to see how it gets setup.
[20:46:41] <BigJohnT> I ran the stepconf wiz for a simple set up to get and example to see what was added when you select tool change
[20:46:51] <BigJohnT> s/and/an
[20:47:03] <kirk_wallace> So far I deleted the tool change loop and added the stuff here:
[20:47:06] <kirk_wallace> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/lxr/source/configs/common/axis_manualtoolchange.hal
[20:48:31] <kirk_wallace> I have a ngc like this: %, t3m6, t1m6,%
[20:49:51] <BigJohnT> loadusr -W hal_manualtoolchange
[20:49:53] <BigJohnT> net tool-change iocontrol.0.tool-change => hal_manualtoolchange.change
[20:49:55] <BigJohnT> net tool-changed iocontrol.0.tool-changed <= hal_manualtoolchange.changed
[20:49:56] <BigJohnT> net tool-number iocontrol.0.tool-prep-number => hal_manualtoolchange.number
[20:49:58] <BigJohnT> net tool-prepare-loopback iocontrol.0.tool-prepare => iocontrol.0.tool-prepared
[20:50:07] <BigJohnT> the above is in my .hal file
[20:51:24] <kirk_wallace> I am missing the _tool_prepare_ bit, I'll add it, and see.
[20:51:40] <BigJohnT> I don't see anything else that might be for tool changes
[20:52:34] <kirk_wallace> Ya hooo!
[20:52:50] <BigJohnT> I take it that it works now :)
[20:53:22] <kirk_wallace> Yes, I suppose I should write this up on the wiki?
[20:53:42] <BigJohnT> great minds think alike...
[20:54:11] <BigJohnT> in the configuring emc section I guess
[20:54:45] <kirk_wallace> BJT: would you happen to be at the CNC Fest?
[20:55:09] <BigJohnT> no, I have three automatics to finish up in the next two weeks
[20:55:34] <BigJohnT> I'm not sure if I have found all the undocumented features yet on those machines
[20:56:20] <BigJohnT> you going to take care of the wiki ?
[20:56:28] <kirk_wallace> I usually do a key word search, so I am most concerned that a search would find it. I had to come here to get help.
[20:56:41] <kirk_wallace> Yes, I should do the wiki.
[20:56:49] <BigJohnT> ok great
[20:57:25] <kirk_wallace> You might remind if I don't getroundtwoit.
[20:57:52] <kirk_wallace> What undoc features?
[20:58:03] <BigJohnT> ?
[20:58:25] <kirk_wallace> Ref:"I'm not sure if I have found all the undocumented features yet on those machines"
[20:58:57] <BigJohnT> when testing you often find something you didn't expect so I call them undocumented features :)
[20:59:48] <kirk_wallace> Oh, I thought you were talking about the machunes you are working on.
[21:00:04] <BigJohnT> On my three automatics I ran into an issue yesterday where two parts could try to occupy the same space at the same time
[21:00:22] <BigJohnT> yes the machines I'm designing and building
[21:00:43] <BigJohnT> it's kind of a joke around my shop
[21:00:53] <chr0n1c> what was the toolchange thing you guys just figured out? i came in halfway through the convo...
[21:01:15] <kirk_wallace> My brand new ER40 holder tried to make love with my table yesterday.
[21:01:28] <chr0n1c> lo, kirk
[21:01:48] <chr0n1c> i hate it when toolbits and the machines get fresh like that
[21:01:54] <kirk_wallace> Because the tool change didn't pause.
[21:02:00] <BigJohnT> kirk you should get some of those machinest pants I was describing on the mail list
[21:02:11] <chr0n1c> yeah... i had that happen on my pcb drilling program
[21:02:18] <chr0n1c> no pause on toolchange
[21:02:28] <chr0n1c> i mentioned it in here but i guess everyone was sleeping
[21:02:48] <kirk_wallace> It was funny because it was a pecking operation.
[21:03:01] <chr0n1c> lol, so it slammed like 800 times?
[21:04:38] <chr0n1c> ahhh, so the fix is in the hal files, with the lines from up there^^^??
[21:04:38] <kirk_wallace> Oops, I missed your pcb problem or I don't remember.
[21:05:29] <kirk_wallace> Here: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/lxr/source/configs/common/axis_manualtoolchange.hal
[21:05:57] <kirk_wallace> Plus: net tool-prepare-loopback iocontrol.0.tool-prepare => iocontrol.0.tool-prepared
[21:06:19] <BigJohnT> well, I'm cooled off now from working outside so time for a nap talk to you later
[21:07:07] <kirk_wallace> Will you be prettier after your nap?
[21:07:34] <kirk_wallace> Good night BJT
[21:08:00] <chr0n1c> ohhh.. i got my 6061 aluminum in for my pcb fixture... i have it ground top and bottom (within .001" over 12") and i have two counterbored holes in it so far to mount it. i ground it on a thompson water grinder with a 40" chuck.. with double sided tape to hold it down and 4 parallels to keep it from moving around.
[21:08:14] <chr0n1c> thanks for the link, kirk_wallace
[21:09:27] <kirk_wallace> chr0n1c: do you have pictures?
[21:09:43] <chr0n1c> i was gonna take one shortly...
[21:09:49] <chr0n1c> i'll post a link in a few
[21:10:16] <chr0n1c> ... i need to build a back jaw/rail for it
[21:10:45] <chr0n1c> and figure out my clamping strategy
[21:11:02] <chr0n1c> so far i'm thinking jsut a buncha random 1/4-20's and 10-32's
[21:11:29] <chr0n1c> some bars and a spacer block (sorta liek the step clamp sets for a bridgeport
[21:11:30] <chr0n1c> )
[21:12:03] <kirk_wallace> I got a batch of really nice PCB's from Sparkfun cheap. I wonder if milling PCB's is worth it?
[21:12:05] <chr0n1c> or i'll jsut drill holes and tap as i nee dthem
[21:12:22] <chr0n1c> milling them would be worth it for prototype or one off work
[21:12:27] <anonimasu> hm..
[21:12:27] <chr0n1c> or even small batches
[21:12:37] <anonimasu> doing uv + etchant and stuff is easy enough :)
[21:12:58] <chr0n1c> yeah if i was gonna DIY pcb's in a big batch i'd jsut etch them
[21:13:20] <kirk_wallace> I like your drill'm as I need'm plan.
[21:13:21] <chr0n1c> but for one or two.. or for that project that you wanna give your own touch, cnc it!
[21:13:29] <anonimasu> -_-
[21:13:44] <anonimasu> uh.. I cant mill ultra fine traces :/
[21:13:55] <chr0n1c> i am pretty sure i can...
[21:14:09] <chr0n1c> i've got .002 resolution
[21:14:18] <anonimasu> 0.002"
[21:14:19] <anonimasu> ?
[21:14:41] <chr0n1c> between my motor steps and my leadscrews i have .002
[21:14:47] <chr0n1c> they are direct drive
[21:14:52] <anonimasu> talking inch or mm?
[21:14:56] <chr0n1c> inch
[21:14:59] <anonimasu> ouch
[21:15:14] <kirk_wallace> I did a set of four with silk screen with my website link and a green over coat.
[21:15:26] <chr0n1c> ouch?
[21:15:28] <anonimasu> that's 0.0508mm
[21:15:43] <anonimasu> http://shop.5168.net/images/AH-042.jpg
[21:16:40] <chr0n1c> if i added some gears or pulleys between my motors and my leadscrews i could get finer resolution
[21:16:55] <chr0n1c> .002 is less that a hair from your head anyways
[21:16:59] <chr0n1c> so :P
[21:17:01] <anonimasu> no..
[21:17:02] <chr0n1c> lol
[21:17:15] <anonimasu> 0.03mm is a hair..
[21:17:18] <chr0n1c> yes ;) unless you are bald?
[21:17:36] <chr0n1c> mic a hair right now with a standard scale on them
[21:17:45] <chr0n1c> no mm BS, lol
[21:17:53] <Rugludallur> cr0n1c: how are you dealing with backlash and deadband ?
[21:18:16] <chr0n1c> i don't have backlash really...
[21:18:18] <chr0n1c> i checked
[21:18:34] <chr0n1c> i'm only moving at 10 inches a min max, lol
[21:18:40] <Rugludallur> interferometer ?
[21:18:42] <anonimasu> that's not really true
[21:18:50] <anonimasu> chr0n1c: 0.01mm dial gauge?
[21:19:04] <chr0n1c> uhh dial indicator on a pin, jog, come back check the pin again...
[21:19:10] <chr0n1c> always deadnuts zero
[21:19:38] <chr0n1c> my indicator is .0005
[21:20:27] <Rugludallur> so repeatability is good but there could still be backlash ?
[21:20:42] <chr0n1c> if i was building a rocket ship to the moon... i would worry about my .00004" backlash
[21:20:54] <chr0n1c> for milling pcbs .00004 won't matter
[21:21:01] <chr0n1c> or for engraving zippos
[21:21:21] <chr0n1c> or for enraving a playboy bunny on some hot blondes celly
[21:21:22] <anonimasu> when the tools are as big as 2 hairs 0.02mm of backslash makes them break
[21:21:33] <anonimasu> :p
[21:21:47] <chr0n1c> i hear ya...
[21:22:26] <anonimasu> (well, I havent milled any pcb's because the spindle speeds of my machines are too slow to do it sanely except for cutting boards out)
[21:22:36] <chr0n1c> i'll be using a .020 line froma 20 degree 1 flute v cutter to mill my pcbs here...
[21:22:50] <chr0n1c> .020" diameter
[21:23:17] <Rugludallur> I would try but there is something very wrong about using a plasma cutter and a woodmill to make pcbs :D
[21:23:35] <anonimasu> haha
[21:23:37] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:24:03] <chr0n1c> when the 20 degree carbide bits come in.. i'll be grinding a .010 flat on the end to get rid of the point so i won't be cutting a V, i'll be cutting an actual line
[21:24:17] <chr0n1c> \_/
[21:24:29] <anonimasu> ok
[21:24:46] <renesis> why didnt you just get ones with .010 tips
[21:25:08] <chr0n1c> these were 24 bucks for 5...
[21:25:22] <chr0n1c> so i went with it.. knowing i have a diamond grinding wheel at work
[21:25:51] <chr0n1c> it's probably cheap carbide.. but it'll do the job
[21:25:59] <renesis> i use 30deg .005 tip pyramids
[21:26:12] <renesis> i get like .008 space/trace
[21:26:21] <chr0n1c> not bad
[21:26:53] <renesis> 2linc.com
[21:26:55] <chr0n1c> i saw they had 60, 45, 30, 20 and 10 degree 1 flute v bits...
[21:27:15] <chr0n1c> i picked the 20 if they don't work i'll try another kinda bit
[21:27:19] <renesis> 20 and 10 prob just break
[21:27:24] <chr0n1c> they will do for engraving anyways
[21:28:09] <renesis> http://2linc.com/engraving_tools_pyramid.htm
[21:28:32] <renesis> $12, minimum 3, direct from the toolmaker
[21:28:38] <anonimasu> renesis: that's still twice what you need for a atmega88 :/
[21:28:50] <renesis> what?
[21:29:21] <anonimasu> 0.15mm is the pin spacing for thoose chips
[21:29:43] <renesis> for qfp?
[21:30:03] <anonimasu> yeah tqfp
[21:30:06] <chr0n1c> grrr mm's make my head hurt
[21:30:19] <anonimasu> * anonimasu hates them
[21:30:26] <anonimasu> actually I hate smd stuff
[21:30:47] <renesis> are you on crack?
[21:31:04] <renesis> e = 0.8mm typical
[21:31:32] <anonimasu> e is the cc between two pins
[21:31:33] <chr0n1c> i though e=m c*squared
[21:31:57] <anonimasu> oh 0.8mm -_- sorry looked at the wrong number :P
[21:31:59] <renesis> which is the pin spacing
[21:32:01] <chr0n1c> e=mc2?
[21:32:07] <anonimasu> yeah, that's not a problem to mill
[21:32:13] <renesis> ive done it
[21:32:24] <chr0n1c> too bad i don't know the ascii code for the little squared aplha
[21:32:44] <renesis> e=mc^2
[21:32:51] <chr0n1c> ahhh...
[21:33:34] <anonimasu> * anonimasu hides
[21:33:46] <anonimasu> I messed up reading the datasheet.
[21:33:50] <anonimasu> :)
[21:35:04] <chr0n1c> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140241139649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=004
[21:35:23] <chr0n1c> *i've used bits like tha tmany times for engraving fine details...
[21:35:36] <chr0n1c> i usually jsut make my own from broken 1/8 drill bits
[21:44:48] <cradek> hello from cnc workshop 2008!
[21:45:16] <Rugludallur> hey, how is the workshop ?
[21:45:18] <chr0n1c> sup dradek!
[21:45:22] <chr0n1c> cradek even
[21:45:47] <chr0n1c> i hope you are all having some cnc fun!
[21:46:03] <cradek> pretty empty so far... just setting up.
[21:46:34] <Rugludallur> hmm wasn't there a webcam there somewhere ?
[21:46:37] <chr0n1c> man i'll drive over with my machine and my laptop if someone sneaks me in the backdoor ;)
[21:46:47] <cradek> there may be a webcam later
[21:47:25] <Rugludallur> ok, have fun (i'm off to bed)
[21:47:41] <chr0n1c> cya Rugludallur
[21:47:44] <BigJohnT> goodnight Rugludallur
[21:48:09] <cradek> bbl
[21:50:11] <anonimasu> night
[21:53:46] <chr0n1c> so is there gonna be any major programming breakthroughs this year at emcfest?
[21:54:06] <chr0n1c> cradek: make sure you get lots of good videos for youtube!
[22:09:26] <chr0n1c> apparently my sony cybershot only counts photos up to 99,999 then resets the filenames... hard to believe i actually took over 100,000 pictures with this camera!
[22:09:51] <chr0n1c> i'm on DSC00090.jpg again
[22:11:32] <chr0n1c> or.. maybe the internal battery has finally died and it's only been 90 pictures since the last time i changed batteries...
[22:13:32] <chr0n1c> anyways i still took a lot of pictures... i just shot some extreme closeup shots of my table surface finish from the water grinding earlier. link coming in 3..2..
[22:22:19] <tomp> i been working in gpsim, it's very very much like hal configs "attach loop_back0 portb0 porta0" http://www.koders.com/noncode/fid50B738FCD9D81CE620D57255DAD2554B94565987.aspx
[22:22:22] <tomp> ´╗┐maybe its just the similarity of all netlist code
[22:24:15] <chr0n1c> hal configs need a gui with add and remove buttons ;)
[22:24:30] <chr0n1c> sortable lists... muting...
[22:24:44] <chr0n1c> if i knew what i was doing i would!
[22:24:49] <chr0n1c> **program it
[22:25:44] <chr0n1c> oh wait.. there is one..
[22:27:56] <tomp> this is gui ( somewhat , blinky lines, scope, monitor windows ) ( and i got the dang pic ocillator program running with 1uS ontime granularity (+400nS overhead) and 4uS offtime granularity, 0 to255 on each )
[22:28:07] <tomp> food!
[22:29:06] <tomp> so 0 on time is really 400nS :P, and i disallow the feeder to hand it 0 offtime
[22:29:17] <tomp> i forgot .... food!
[22:35:38] <chr0n1c> i ate a huge sweet potato for lunch.. where's food?
[22:40:31] <chr0n1c> http://ohiopctech.com/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=8 <- pics of the pcb fixture mounted (still needs finishing up) and extreme closeups of my watergrinding surface finish on 6061 aluminum bar stock.