SWPadnos: do you have a number where I can call you?
about some contract work
ok - it'll come from "Thoth Systems" - info in the signature line
are you headed out for the cnc fest tomorrow?
we'll email you
ok - I'll respond some night after driving ;)
next week sometime would be fine : )
as if you'd have time then : )
okay i have a hypothetical situation
let's say you're in calculus
but signed up after barely squeeking through precalculus uh, three years ago
and now find yourself having to teach yourself precalc as you go through differentiation
what do you do, it's too late to drop.
I'm so glad college was 20+ years ago
I don't know if there's a good answer to your hypothetical question other than "work hard" and maybe "learn from your mistakes"
watch youtube videos about math
many people porkup and retake a class once
the real problem is there's a test every three classes, and the course is only 9 weeks
roughly half a normal semester
this was not the best idea i've ever had
does precalc mean trig?
I think I liked the thrill of going into tests without studying.. I was young and stupid then.
I don't recall much trig in calc 1 - lots in calc 2
precalc is like, the algebra that will really be used for calc later on
Plus it went well with my procrastination problem.
a lot of factoring stuff
what kind of stuff are you having trouble with? maybe someone can suggest a book (or more likely, wikipedia)
that's what i am also having trouble nailing down
"what is this called that i am screwing up"
a lot of it is dealing just with polynomials
not simple ones, but complicated ones
(for me, anyway)
I'll divide something out when I wasn't actually able to do that at the moment
like we are going into the laws of differentiation, like f'(x) * g'(x) = f'(x)g(x) + g'(x)f(x)
and when f and g are things like (4x^3 + x^2 +9) and so forth
i just never learned the manipulations as well as i should have, such that I can't always identify what's possible
ah, I see, the stuff where you have to have a feel, not just learn some identities or something
yeah, i was very much sleeping in class the first time around
and i'm picking it up fast, but the class is faster
is there a TA or can you visit the prof?
unless the prof is still around at 8 pm on weekdays
wikipedia is really bad for math
there's even a mathlab at school, but it closes at friggin' six
mathworld.wolfram.com is great
toastyde1th: you might also want to just play around with a symbolic math program like mathematica
i've been using my ti-89 in class to dork around with what equals what
i will look at mathematica now
it's my personal opinion that using a calculator like that makes it worse
for what reasons
you may be right
it tells me when i did it wrong and helps me figure out where
they are the worst of all possible worlds: symbolic math programs, calculators, general purpose computers
but it is my personal opinion that conventional math education stinks
otherwise i'd have no feedback
so i'm basically looking at either staring at the professor confused, or using what few resources i have
can you study with a friend or two in the class? that got me through a couple impossible ones.
that is looking like a limited option at this point
the few people i sit around are as confused as i am
fenn: probably true, probably unhelpful (like my advice too)
my cousin just got into princeton for a masters in physics, but he's too far away to be of regular help
1 1/2 hrs away
toastyde1th: if everyone is lost, maybe the class is not being taught very well
it's not, unfortunately
he spends a LOT of time on stuff that isn't part of the curriculum
"now this isn't necessary now, but you're going to see it in calc 2"
then he spends an hour of a three hour class on something he won't be testing us on
toastydea1th: how about going through some of the online class material from berkeley or mit ?
man, 3 hour math class ...
is it on their webpages?
toastydea1th: yup, both have all classes on websites
that just can't work very well
i dropped mine
it's rough man
but it's what i can do right now.
MIT also has a very nice class on metal fabrication (I probably should not have told you that ;)
to me, it sounds like you will make it
i don't know, i really want to not just pass the class but be proficient in calculus
and it is not looking likely
90 on the first test, but a 69 on the second
and min passing grade is 75
proficiency in anything doesn't come just from classes :-)
well i guess i mean get the fundamentals
rather than pass the class and forget everything
proficiency in calculus to me means knowing what is possible, when it applies to a problem at hand, and what to look for in the book (or wolfram) to solve it
the solving it part
for someone who uses it every day they wouldn't have to look up the quotient rule like I would, but who cares, I know it's there waiting for me
i can get that
so you're passing - keep doing that and you'll be fine
but like, i am screwing up bad on what appears to be remedial stuff
i guess, i'll see what happens
do you have the book from the precalc class you slept through?
i didn't buy it
this was back in comp sci when i didn't care at all about school
now i keep all my books
also he uses proofs for everything
and holy crap, what's a magic zero
and how does he go from a simplified polynomial to distributing something unevenly across it
i am just looking at the tricks he's using and i have no idea where they're coming from
and it's not like he's going to stop and explain it
because it's not calc
like, when he was proving f'(x) / g'(x)
you have to add stuff that equals zero to it
out of nowhere
no not that
proofs are always like that, it's wy i hate them
this was stuff like + f(x)g(x+h) - f(x)g(x+h)
or something similar, i don't understand it much less remember it
and he went too fast for me to copy it verbatim
is that the kind of stuff on your tests, or is he just explaining the quotient rule?
i don't know!
i have no clue.
i don't know what he wants us to know and what he's just rambling on about
what was on your first two tests?
first was a precalc review
second was limits
if he's proving the quotient rule, he's either showing off or trying to give you a feel for why it works. I doubt he will expect you to also prove it later.
he wants us to memorize the rule itself, but not the proof
but he used up all the time explaining why it's right
and was like "now why don't you go home and try it"
le hospital's stuff? (sp)
i want to murder him
why would someone prove something's right, and spend no time showing how to use it
when what he wants us to know is how to use it
that's where "left as an exercise for the student" comes from
and then he throws curveballs, like he'll use that rule
and is like "now let's try it"
Anyone doing laser engraving?
throws soemthing up, and then psychs everyone out by saying "aha! you shouldn't use that thing we just went over"
K`zan: trying to
and then spends 20 minutes showing us some OTHER thing we don't practice
K`zan: I bet we'd all like to
whatever, i will get through this
Dealextreme has some fairly powerful lasers, but google wasn't much help for homebrewing one.
DX's lasers are weak
Not sure those would be suitable though.
weak, 200mW is weak>
they are fine if all you want to do is make marks slowly on black absorbing material
yes, 200mW barely touches black electrical tape and it takes a while
5-10W is more useful
Would like to find something to chuck in the Z axis to do it, $10K+++ not likely for me.
Where can one get lasers of that level reasonable?!?
reprap head is what I am thinking of
laser specialists... $$$$$$$$$$$$
[04:06:26] <K`zan> http://www.precisionlaserspecialist.com/
most engraves are CO2 lasers
Sounds like it is going to be too expensive for my buget. Suspect the laser and PS are going to be reasonably expensive.
heh...one of my freshman prof is on PBS
My condolences :).
Oh well. Next! :-).
One thing that might be possible with the DX laser (haven't confirmed) is to break open the 100mW green laser
Back to hacking at the gcode...
and take the IR driver diode out....that might be up to 1W
Hummm, food for thought there, lemme see what those go for,
about $100, IIRC
but I donno how easy it is to break off the KTP xtal from the driver diode
200mW isn't that muck more expensive - $95 vs $120.
Yeah, that would be a lot of change to toss on a gamble that it might just possibly maybe just work though.
from what I read, the 200mW are the same (Cherry picked) so the driver diode might not be stronger
something i was just looking at r cheap laser diodes: http://superkuh.ath.cx/#018
Wonder if I take that pile of keychain ones and point them all at the same place :-) LOL.
K`zan: that works but there is a very expensive combiner you need ;)
i just found a hpgl importer c-hook for mastercam 9, woohoo!
*it should be installed by default
lol, i had to stop by to tell everyone.. should i add info to the wiki cam page?
Would seem to be quite the thing to do :-)
are you also buy everyone Mastercam 9 licenses too? :)
ds2 yes, any savings on the cheap(!!!!) laser pointers would probably be lost in the combiner :).
uh, when i become a billionaire machine shop owner i will ;)
Anyone familiar with the GO2 statement?
Not really clear what the I and J parameters are supposed to be...
K`zan: you might have a better chance of doing it with the 200-300mW DVD diodes instead of the <5mW Keychain lasers
I/J are the relative coordinates to locate the center of the arc
relative as in the "origin" of that system is the point where you are at right now
I can probably get those for $20 with junk transport stuff to toss :).
if the dvd players sell for $20 you must be able to buy them for much less separately
in buy they are less then $5 each
Probably so if I could order them in 10K lots.
buy.com - just the diode?
G2 x0.752 y0.000 I-0.752 J0.000 (and cut the circle)
* K`zan stuffed from home brew enchelatas(sp?) make in burrito size tortillas :).
what i wouldn't give for an authentic burrito right now
Heh, what does that mean :). MANY definitions for that including w/the touristas :).
I'll stick to mine :).
uhh it probably din't mean what your dirty mind thought it did... ;)
Gotta get some coffee or siesta it will be.
My mind is NOT dirty, I change it early and often!
in that G2 statement, it means the arc's center is directly to the left of the current point, -0.752 away
mt dew!! i drank some coffee at work this morning and i felt like i should be running laps, i usually just do the dew
I worry that I may be caffine saturated :(.
i always drink coffee really fast because it tastes so good with cream n sugar, i think that's why i get wired on it
ds2: Thanks, not sure that makes sense to me yet. (NEMA23 motor boss hole).
**possibly too much sugar as well, lol
hey don't be talking about my boss hole when i'm not around ;)
I drink mine black since I started roasting and grinding my own - doesn't need anything, but that sugar might help at this point.
ds2 it does make a circle, not an arc.
:( hmm i just tried two hpgl files with the readhpgl chook and i got a blank screen when it was done... wtf??
it was doing stuff... the little cursor was spinning and the hd light was going nuts
K`zan: circles are ARC's as far as G code is concerned
anyone else got mcam9 wanna try it out?
K`zan: think about what do you need to describe a circle (or an ARC; ARC == segment of a circle)
you can define stop and start points, i don't remember how at this point in time though
start point is always your current position
but just having an end point doesn't tell you enough info
you need to know the radius OR the center location of the circle
i got to reliant on cam software.. my g-code is rusty rusty
i always have to look up codes when i edit the cam files.. :(
that's what that G code line says - G02 <--- go CCW to form the arc/circle
X/Y defines the end point
I/J locates the center of the arc/circle relative to the current (starting) point
if X/Y == current position, you have a circle, otherwise it is an ARC
the other way of doing this is to use the R notation and define the Radius
but the R notation/method limits you to 180deg arcs so you need 2 call outs to form a circle
toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
g2 i-1.0 is way faster and less error prone
r notation is less math for hand coding
indeed, but i've never liked programming without a sketch of critical points in front of me
how i would do it... create, arc, center point and radius, tolpath, contour, verify, post (who needs a text editor?)
you can't do a sketch if you have to visualize it in the generic case to write a G-code generator program
i didn't know we were talking about a generator program, sry
just came in.
just thought it was generic at tool programming
can i run the real emc2 as a simulation on my non-RT kernel with sound?
it crashed when i tried to start the sim
i don't wanna do motion control, just run through the programs...
then reboot into the RT kernel to run them.. the reason why is that qemu runs better on my stock kernel
with which i can make use of some nice windoze cam/cad programs
toastydeath: we are talking about generic programming
I just sometimes prefer to write a code generator for repeated code then to hand write the same things over and over
ds2: lisp macros
no thanks, I'll generate them with perl :P
what about the unsung hero of code generators: emacs macros?
* Zaarq wanders off to check CPAN for gcode.pm...
* chr0n1c wonders why an scg from hp2xx just crashed inkscape with no traces of error messages
heh. there is one. "Perl extension for cutting cycloidal gear wheels and related items out of sheet metal".
ds2: OK, I can see that, so I= the first half of the circle and J= the return to start?
Back, btw and a bit more awake now :).
I/J is X & Y but relative to the current location
so (assuming G90/G51) - X0.000 Y0.000 is the current origin regardless of where you are it will go there
I1.000 J1.000 is a point 1*sqrt(2) distance, at a place 1.00 up and 1.00 to the right of where you are currently
ohh i got my blank copper clad boards today, my first pc board i'll be milling is a function generator based on an xr2206 chip. pictures coming soon!
ds2: Thanks, will pester you more on the morrow, I'l beat and heading for bed before I go face down in the keyboard :-)
when i use emc with plasma cutter
emc can do nesting to multiply parts ?
there are a few work offset coordinates, maybe 10?
then there are loops in g-code if you want to repeat the same program in slightly different places lots of times
did u ever used nesting software ?
you mean a CAD tool which positions different parts for maximum efficiency? no I haven't used something like that, and emc doesn't have it
that's more of a CAD/CAM issue, at lest with the traditional CAD-CAM-CNC workflow
I would think the nesting problem is something that's studiet at almost every cs department that does computational geometry. there should be open-source code out there for solving the nesting problem
what kind of algorithms are usually used for that kind of thing?
why I cannot add function to traj-thread ?
Vq: yep, I think the nesting problem can be expressed as a general optimization problem, so genetic algorithms, simulated annealing, and ant-colony may all be used
ants are slow though, they move all the numbers one at a time, need bee hive algo, that way, all the numbers hatch out at the same time.
anyone seen this? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=860235830940925547
[14:10:35] <skunkworks> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3940699428479771797&q=source:015422501009045079122&hl=en
wth? demaganetizing something?
skunkworks: that's one of acemi's
I was wondering.. I saw the wire forming and parallel arm machine.
hmm.. haven't seen the second video
looks like metal treatment.. first heating, then rapid cooling
ah - makes sense
looks like inductive heating
hmm, thats weird - my phone line (voice) is dead, but the DSL still works
oh well, that's not good for much anyway
uh, I beg to differ
I'm one of those holdouts that doesn't have a cellphone surgically attached to me
sometimes I think all consequential communication is by email - phones are just for telemarketers
* skunkworks only started that 2 years ago...
well, I want to call the vet so I can take the slathering beast in to get his nails trimmed
yipe! run away run away
I was thinking it was a job for emc...
haha, on homeshopmachinist.net: how do I hold all three wires and a mic while measuring threads on the lath?
answer: "I use duct tape"
"I slather grease on everything so it sticks together"
am I the only one who thinks this isn't very hard to do...?
what's a mic?
4 or 5 pieces, 2 hands
4 if the part is in the chuck
oops, I better be quiet or I'll have to give away my technique at workshop
cradek: you need to write a leaflet and sell it at the workshop
demos: $10 each
limited to 1 person/demo
an a signature on a non-disclosure contract
(and a yearly support fee)
damn automation - I think all the human phone operators in the world must now work for telemarketers
heaven forbid that a customer who is already buying a service be allowed to talk to a human
steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
are you and matt starting your drive today?
to add insult to injury, I forgot to refill the pay-as-you-go cellphone, and the $70 or so that was left in it expired within the last week or two
"we'll have your trouble fixed by sunday night"
considering that the trouble is almost certainly in the central office, that is pretty lame
lewin1 is now known as lewing
[16:04:58] <skunkworks> http://public.hurco.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/VM1P_Video_Demo08.wmv
[16:05:53] <skunkworks> http://www.hurco.com/Hurco/English/Advertising/VM1P+Video+demo
steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
cradek, my mic has hooks to hang the wires from
yuck, I80 is closed for a few hundred miles between us and galesburg
what is the alternative?
why is it closed? construction usually doesn't close it, just delays things
[19:00:00] <alex_joni> http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/i80
the whole state is
iowa or ne?
you guys need some slope
well NE has it - it slopes toward IA
time to fabricate a snorkel for your car ;)
argh, html-only mail to the list from steve s...
and without an In-Reply-To:
good night all
see you alex_joni
[23:50:54] <dmess> http://www.david-laserscanner.com/
this looks very cool... for machine tool verification