#emc | Logs for 2008-06-05

[00:00:14] <gezr> im sure they do, but I dont believe they are for continuous motion cutting
[00:00:20] <toastydeath> they are not, like i said twice
[00:00:24] <toastydeath> they only moved the head
[00:00:43] <gezr> oh , im very sorry for not having paid attention, my bad
[00:00:49] <toastydeath> np
[00:00:49] <dmess> hmm im looking for boring mills these days... you know of any GOOD ones ultraprecision..
[00:01:01] <gezr> thiking about who these 2 dj's were that put that composition together
[00:01:18] <gezr> I can see them in my mind, one is asian, the other is some white guy, and they are just tearing it up
[00:02:26] <gezr> maybe it was a link I followed on myspace, dangit I cant remember, probably youtube
[00:02:39] <gezr> oh well
[00:02:50] <toastydeath> sry gezr, dunno
[00:02:50] <dmess> DMG has a P-type machine that sorta makes it look like thats whats happening.. but it is full contouring head rotation... NOT a rail..
[00:02:53] <gezr> motorcycle parts tommorow, integration by parts due tommorow,
[00:03:04] <toastydeath> dmess: not contouring
[00:03:10] <toastydeath> it has only two positions, up and down.
[00:03:24] <toastydeath> the control issued an axis unclamp when it moved
[00:03:44] <toastydeath> it was old looking, that was for sure
[00:03:54] <dmess> maybe some of their old stuff.. i dunno..
[00:04:12] <toastydeath> dunno, i'd give more detail if i had any =(
[00:04:21] <toastydeath> just saw a picture and heard some stories is all
[00:05:03] <dmess> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPCrTYwp2UY&NR=1
[00:05:56] <toastydeath> haha i saw that link yesterday, that machine is so hot
[00:06:07] <toastydeath> don't you have a couple?
[00:06:31] <dmess> they have a nice head control
[00:06:53] <dmess> no i have WFL mill-turn's
[00:07:30] <toastydeath> oh
[00:07:32] <toastydeath> still
[00:07:36] <toastydeath> mill turn is so neat =(
[00:10:16] <dmess> we run a 68 hr cycle on one of or parts on them
[00:10:26] <toastydeath> lol
[00:11:35] <dmess> mill here and there.. turn some... mill some more to make clearance,,, then turn some more... etc.
[00:12:14] <toastydeath> "see you in three days"
[00:12:18] <dmess> finish mill all the chamfers and rads...
[00:12:39] <dmess> 24-7 operation
[00:13:40] <gezr> sigh, dmess how is the hobbing operations going?
[00:13:42] <dmess> when it works its sweet... hen the machine goes down for 1-2 weeks we feel the hit
[00:13:44] <gezr> s/is/are
[00:14:12] <gezr> i doubt ill find the song im after :(
[00:14:21] <dmess> i dont think it started today as planned... but i will keep you aprised.
[00:14:42] <dmess> whats its name the song gezr
[00:14:45] <gezr> ide like a video if you can make a very short one
[00:15:13] <gezr> I dont know the name of the song, its more or less the base line, I heard another song, that used it as a sample, and i want to hear the other version by the 2 dj'
[00:15:17] <gezr> s
[00:15:27] <dmess> never gonna happen... v22 nose landing gear..
[00:15:29] <gezr> if you cant tape some, thats cool, it may be a protected part
[00:15:40] <gezr> ah, yeah, okay, then no big deal
[00:16:04] <gezr> that all probably need to know, I dont need to know
[00:16:39] <gezr> let me see if I can find the song I heard, maybe it ill help me remember
[00:16:41] <dmess> unless i find some to put in our capabilities section of the site... lemme work on it
[00:17:19] <gezr> no, its no big deal, dont get in trouble, Ive seen all sorts of gears being cut
[00:19:10] <dmess> my initials are on 95% of every disaster/distressed part that has left that building in the last 3 yrs... and all the parts were saved... 8-)
[00:19:40] <gezr> dmess you have an updated realplayer installed?
[00:19:54] <dmess> trouble finds ME for a blessing
[00:20:09] <dmess> probably not.
[00:20:22] <gezr> oh heck I dont think this remix is the right bass line in it anyway
[00:20:51] <dmess> VLM is pretty versatile
[00:21:31] <gezr> yeah it looks that way
[00:21:39] <gezr> a lot of sheet to break down though
[00:25:02] <gezr> sigh, I cant find that track
[00:32:34] <dmess> what sort of musac is it??
[00:33:25] <dmess> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb9GUoiT3ts&NR=1
[00:33:26] <gezr> whooo hooo found it
[00:33:28] <gezr> techno
[00:34:01] <gezr> just love the drum sample they used
[00:34:09] <gezr> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkyhqE_VOEE&feature=related
[00:35:50] <gezr> I cant belive i found that
[00:36:50] <gezr> and yeah, since I can't stand whats on the radio, I listen to techo for hours, or classical guitar, or classical
[00:37:06] <dmess> if you find an mp3 send it... we could ski to this...
[00:37:37] <gezr> oh, hehehehe, you need jump techno for sking
[00:38:10] <dmess> naw i can ski into anything
[00:39:09] <dmess> and jump off most things on a wish and a prayer....:-D
[00:39:22] <gezr> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kL8xmHotu0
[00:39:49] <gezr> its really neat stuff
[00:40:01] <gezr> scooter and few other groups are making that bouncy stuff
[00:40:55] <gezr> lose about a pound a month moving around to that stuff if you like it.
[00:41:46] <dmess> i can lose 3 lbs per hot yoga session... and i was doing 3 a week.. ;)
[00:42:13] <gezr> I need to do something, im probably 15lbs over ideal right now
[00:42:27] <dmess> and the babes are HOT.....
[00:42:52] <gezr> heh
[00:43:03] <dmess> 1 week at Rays... its gone
[00:43:13] <gezr> Im not doing the warrior, or the naked eagle or the twisted snake or any of that
[00:43:30] <gezr> if I have to twist that much, then something is wrong withme
[00:44:31] <dmess> nor do i... its just a good HOT workout that sweats the water & toxins outta you..
[00:45:16] <gezr> hahahaha, ive been getting a workout lately at home each day, no scale so I dont know
[00:45:42] <Memphis> lol
[00:46:55] <gezr> I should mount some sort of boxing glove to the shaper's working end,and see how long I can box with it
[00:47:25] <renesis> =O
[00:47:48] <dmess> a real manual machine
[00:48:06] <gezr> you mean go toe to toe with a 25" chuck?
[00:48:32] <dmess> dont think... JUST DO IT... as a friend says...
[00:48:47] <gezr> and cranking on a big machine isnt as cool as the videos look, thats after a few hours of work getting thepiece mounted
[00:49:26] <dmess> yes... thats what the night shift is for... ; )
[00:50:04] <dmess> gezr.... what do you call a big machine??
[00:51:47] <dmess> as far as the 25" chuck ... no guts ... no glory.... grow some balls... learn it and MAKE it do what you want
[00:53:03] <gezr> hahahahah, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SItPGEsjLQ&feature=related
[00:53:14] <gezr> dmess: oh, 30"swing, 20food bed
[00:53:45] <dmess> swing is a little small... as far as im concerned
[00:53:46] <gezr> for a lathe, 3x18meter mill
[00:55:43] <dmess> no that 1M x 4-5M at best
[00:55:44] <gezr> maybe I mean 6meter long
[00:55:55] <gezr> no, they get much larger
[00:56:45] <dmess> we need to buy swing bcz we need the max y-axis travel available
[00:58:01] <gezr> I can imagine
[00:58:38] <dmess> and the material takes its toll on the machine too...
[00:59:17] <gezr> http://www.monarchmt.com/gmcu.htm
[01:00:29] <toastydeath> there was a 30 foot y axis boring mill on machinetools.com
[01:00:43] <toastydeath> that's one tall boring mill
[01:01:04] <toastydeath> not that i know much about them, just seems to be rather large.
[01:34:06] <jmkasunich> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gGSsAJzUrs&feature=related
[01:39:42] <dmess> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY3MnWBx0pI&feature=related
[01:44:40] <jmkasunich> no sparks ;-)
[01:48:19] <jmkasunich> I like the gundrilling
[02:47:07] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[02:58:36] <eman-> hey, anyone know how to unstick an x2 drawbar? it's a new mill, want to make sure i'm not doing it wrong...
[02:59:01] <eman-> (if there's a more appropriate channel, please point me towards it)
[02:59:41] <cradek> is the drawbar or collet stuck?
[03:00:37] <eman-> it's a drill chuck, the drawbar comes right out, but i should be hammering the drawbar to loosen the chuck, right?
[03:01:03] <cradek> is it a morse taper spindle?
[03:01:12] <eman-> yeah
[03:01:17] <cradek> morse locks itself in place. you are right that you will have to tap it to get it out.
[03:01:41] <eman-> i've been whacking it pretty hard... loosened the drawbar a bit a whacking the top of it
[03:01:44] <cradek> you should loosen the drawbar only a bit, so the threads still have good engagement. then tap the drawbar gently with a dead blow hammer.
[03:02:27] <eman-> how heavy is a dead blow hammer, i actually don't have a hammer, so been using the bigass wrench for loosening the alignment nut
[03:02:43] <cradek> hmm, is it possible you had it way too tight? are you new at operating this machine or are you experienced and this is a new problem?
[03:02:57] <eman-> it's a brand new machine, came with teh drill chuck installed
[03:03:05] <cradek> oh I see
[03:03:09] <eman-> wanted to stick a collet in there instead
[03:03:30] <eman-> reluctant to hit it too hard
[03:03:36] <eman-> but not going too softly on it either
[03:03:39] <cradek> your wrench is probably a bad substitute for a hammer, and it was also maybe installed too tight
[03:04:08] <eman-> can i maybe get it off by leaveraging between the bottom of the spindle and the top of the drawbar with a big vise?
[03:04:11] <eman-> s/vise/clamp
[03:04:30] <cradek> no, don't destroy anything, get the right tools instead
[03:04:46] <eman-> ok, you reckon it's just the weight of the hammer?
[03:05:04] <cradek> I know (from experience, haha) that wrenches make bad hammers.
[03:05:05] <eman-> i'll pick something up, i have no intention of destroying anything ;)
[03:05:13] <cradek> good
[03:05:23] <eman-> ok, i'll take your word for it. thanks man
[03:05:31] <cradek> hope you get it.
[03:05:42] <eman-> me too, desperate to get a few end mills in it
[03:05:58] <cradek> look for a dead blow hammer. they have lead shot in the head so they don't bounce. you will also use it when mounting work in a vise.
[03:05:59] <eman-> and i'll be back in here whenever i get it converted to cnc
[03:06:13] <eman-> will do
[03:06:14] <cradek> for this small mill you should probably get the lightest one you can find
[03:06:26] <eman-> right
[03:07:12] <eman-> still, that looks like a pretty wimpy hammer: http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Features/features.htm#Collets
[03:10:24] <eman-> thanks cradek
[03:11:10] <cradek> I bet it's super easy to overtighten morse + drawbar
[03:40:32] <SkullWorks_PGAB> From a few days back "(6:19:50 PM) jmkasunich: 5-axis question: if I am at x0y0z0b0c0, and I issue G1x1b36000, will emc turn b around 100 times, or will it decide it is smarter than me and only do a single turn?" This depends on which is active G90 | G91
[03:41:07] <jmkasunich> how so?
[03:41:47] <cradek> in emc, b will turn 100 times regardless of g90/g91
[03:42:05] <cradek> because of starting at b0
[03:47:16] <cradek> but I didn't read back :-)
[03:47:39] <jmkasunich> ?
[03:48:07] <cradek> I didn't read back to see any context, I only saw SkullWorks's paste right now
[03:48:14] <jmkasunich> ah
[03:48:31] <jmkasunich> I was wondering about multi-turn moves - I really meant to say C, not B
[03:48:57] <cradek> sure, same answer
[03:49:18] <jmkasunich> yeah, it got answered a couple days ago
[03:49:30] <jmkasunich> thats why I questioned SkullWorks_PGAB answer
[03:49:38] <cradek> with W set so the controlled point is up the tool a bit, seems like you could cut a sphere-like thing with one move with B+C
[03:49:49] <jmkasunich> thats what I did
[03:50:07] <jmkasunich> actually, I used U and W
[03:50:15] <cradek> neat
[03:50:31] <jmkasunich> did you see the rendering?
[03:51:05] <cradek> yes, that's very cool
[03:57:48] <jmkasunich> got the Y axis homing to a simulated switch
[03:58:03] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna put switches on all axes of the model
[03:58:19] <jmkasunich> (not parport pin limited, and its easy to mount virtual switches)
[03:58:25] <cradek> ha
[04:02:02] <jmkasunich> do the max kins care about Z? or is the only requirement that XY=0 is when the center of the rotary is under the center of the tool
[04:02:12] <jmkasunich> I guess B=0 means tool vertical is also important
[04:02:49] <cradek> c=0 means you know which way x,y are on the table
[04:03:09] <cradek> head up/down doesn't matter
[04:04:09] <cradek> goodnight
[04:04:15] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[04:09:37] <jmkasunich> thats annoying
[04:09:48] <jmkasunich> "Exceeded soft limit" doesn't say which one
[05:03:35] <SkullWorks_PGAB> JMK - I stated that because in many machines in G90 a rotary axis is 0-360 (and at 360 displays as 0.0000)
[05:09:40] <SkullWorks_PGAB> and therefore would cause an alarm in G90 put work just fine in G91.
[05:13:57] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Also strange movements (Code done by someone else in MC) - in G40 G90 A(4th axis) would move shortest path, but G91 A(signed value) moved as expected.
[05:30:39] <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/MyMachineShop/PipeDreamMill/PDM-060408/
[05:31:28] <K`zan> Reworked Z a bit, gets it within a few thousandths and my 1F cap :).
[05:31:33] <renesis> omg wai do you need a 1F cap
[05:32:05] <JymmmEMC> renesis: Reach for that screwdriver on the bench I DARE YOU!
[05:32:10] <K`zan> Because I can :). Always wanted one and got it for $3 at the thrift store :-).
[05:32:26] <renesis> omg scary cap
[05:32:33] <JymmmEMC> renesis: wuss
[05:32:34] <K`zan> Runs a led for about an hour.
[05:32:53] <renesis> jymmmemc: i dont need a screwdriver with a cap stuck to it!
[05:33:12] <JymmmEMC> I stand by what I said... wuss
[05:33:14] <renesis> yeah i was gonna say nice deadbug
[05:33:19] <K`zan> I found out what it was for - for the assholes with the car stereos you can hear a mile away - their lights dim on the bass passages without one of these...
[05:33:21] <renesis> but i think you twisted it =(
[05:33:37] <renesis> well yeh
[05:33:41] <K`zan> Yep, just wanted to see how long it would run, not for NASA :).
[05:33:54] <renesis> they could prob get a better alternator for not much more $$$
[05:34:11] <K`zan> Nah, they can put that money into a 10KW amp...
[05:34:27] <renesis> okay
[05:34:31] <renesis> a) 10KW != $100
[05:34:42] <renesis> b) 10KW does not belong in a car
[05:34:45] <K`zan> * K`zan real tired of hearing bass and never seeing the car.
[05:34:55] <K`zan> We are in complete agreement Sir.
[05:34:56] <renesis> dB draggin is for lames
[05:35:25] <JymmmEMC> what I hate is getting next to the bass and hearing crap mids and highs
[05:35:26] <renesis> i need to build an smps for some nice car AB amps
[05:35:31] <JymmmEMC> base
[05:35:40] <renesis> haha yeah rly
[05:35:42] <K`zan> Someplace, I forget where, got tired of passing out tickets for too loud car stereos and passed a law where they can confenscate(sp?) the card and crush it. Wish they would do that here.
[05:35:54] <K`zan> s/card/car
[05:36:05] <renesis> whatever i dont mind
[05:36:23] <renesis> my biggest issue is its always lame hiphop bass
[05:36:25] <K`zan> I like my music, not thiers at a half mile.
[05:36:26] <JymmmEMC> Nah, I'd love to have like 10KW with a system that has special mic's setup to counter their system
[05:36:27] <renesis> like, omg monsynth
[05:36:29] <renesis> who cares
[05:36:31] <JymmmEMC> to silence
[05:36:43] <renesis> you need hear someone working a sub out with some jungle distort bass
[05:36:48] <K`zan> RPGs were made for just this kind of problem :).
[05:37:10] <renesis> whatever
[05:37:22] <renesis> im going to build a massive mecha dub system
[05:37:30] <K`zan> Sigh, dxf2gcode docs are only German :-(.
[05:37:39] <renesis> like 60ft robots with massive bass drivers
[05:37:46] <renesis> with little doors to cover the bass drivers
[05:37:58] <K`zan> Backto xfig with gcode export or mach3 under wincrap, sigh....
[05:38:03] <renesis> to protect the speakers when they gotta blow stuff up to protect little dancer people
[05:38:08] <K`zan> I was right. The easy part is the hardware....
[05:38:09] <renesis> ph33r teh dub mecha
[05:39:04] <K`zan> Huh?!?
[05:39:20] <K`zan> Or oops or something...
[05:40:35] <K`zan> Got to come up with a better method of fastening stuff to the table. Double sticky is less than optimal...
[05:41:27] <renesis> wtf
[05:41:42] <renesis> use clamps and vises like a real machinist person?
[05:42:37] <renesis> tapped 123 blocks, 3/8" cap screws, spherical washers, and step block clamps work nice
[05:49:10] <K`zan> renesis: Not likely with this little joke...
[06:34:05] <micge1> good morning
[06:55:32] <K`zan> Night all
[09:52:25] <micge1> I just added changing software limit in runtime int emcmodule.cc
[09:52:56] <micge1> It works fine
[09:53:12] <micge1> no abort is nessesary
[09:54:22] <alex_joni> micge1: good
[09:55:22] <micge1> just must sync it with preview and so on
[09:55:57] <micge1> we must have this functionality becouse of dynamic change of Y functionality
[09:56:12] <micge1> in one program it will be rotary axis
[09:56:26] <micge1> else it will be long linear
[10:03:19] <alex_joni> I see
[10:03:30] <alex_joni> well.. it's probably easier then chaning configurations
[10:05:34] <micge1> alex_joni: changing axes will be in runtime without reload emc
[10:06:46] <micge1> we can do that now
[10:07:15] <micge1> only limitation was axis
[10:07:17] <micge1> was]
[10:07:29] <micge1> bbl
[10:42:57] <BigJohnT> I guess it was a problem with autothingy and 6.06 on the sheetcam install ...
[10:43:13] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: might be
[10:43:33] <alex_joni> I'm off to germany for a couple of days.. but maybe it would be nice to make a deb for it..
[10:45:08] <BigJohnT> I saw on the mail list where Les was having problems with the autothingy
[10:45:16] <BigJohnT> what is a deb?
[10:45:46] <archivist> a package
[10:45:57] <BigJohnT> ok
[10:46:04] <archivist> debian based distros
[10:46:42] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: the packages you install on 6.06 usually ;)
[10:46:51] <BigJohnT> ok
[10:47:37] <BigJohnT> with sheetcam being a commerical product I guess that makes linux a pain to deal with...
[10:48:00] <alex_joni> shouldn't
[10:49:29] <BigJohnT> could you have a commerical product and still use the synaptic package manager somehow?
[10:49:48] <alex_joni> sure.. but you have to build deb packages for that
[10:49:54] <alex_joni> and put them in a repository somewhere
[10:50:08] <alex_joni> and probably do it for ubuntu (each version), and debian
[10:50:20] <alex_joni> and then for SuSE and RedHat and FC you need to build rpm's
[10:50:29] <alex_joni> they use a different packaging method
[10:50:38] <alex_joni> then for slackware you need something else
[10:50:47] <alex_joni> and for gentoo yet another thing
[10:50:49] <BigJohnT> see it get complicated
[10:50:59] <BigJohnT> s/get/gets
[10:50:59] <alex_joni> and there are probably a lot of other alternatives I don't know ;)
[10:51:12] <alex_joni> supporting _all_ those targets is a pain
[10:51:26] <alex_joni> but that's what autopackage tries to overcome..
[10:51:29] <alex_joni> (when it works..)
[10:51:49] <BigJohnT> would not 99% be using ubuntu as they are running EMC too?
[10:51:58] <alex_joni> if they use sheetcam + emc
[10:52:12] <alex_joni> but you can't make that assumption (from sheetcam's point of view)
[10:52:30] <alex_joni> I don't think he targets sheetcam on linux _only_ at emc2 users..
[10:52:32] <alex_joni> or emc
[10:53:18] <alex_joni> btw.. older users of EMC don't use Ubuntu..
[10:53:22] <alex_joni> some use debian (BDI)
[10:53:33] <alex_joni> others use older installs (Redhat and Morphix based)
[10:53:51] <BigJohnT> if it ain't broke don't fix it...
[10:54:18] <alex_joni> this is exactly the reason why we chose a platform and try to stick with it
[10:54:37] <alex_joni> if someone from the comunity wants to support something else, we are happy to include that
[10:54:47] <alex_joni> but doing it ourselves is too much trouble
[10:54:52] <BigJohnT> autopackages web site is even broken ...
[10:55:31] <alex_joni> seems down
[10:55:40] <BigJohnT> I never got EMC to work till the live CD came out and I tried many times in the years past
[10:57:37] <BigJohnT> I was so happy when the live cd booted up I started designing my plasma cutter the next day :)
[11:00:00] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: what part of Germany are you going to?
[11:00:13] <alex_joni> munich
[11:00:27] <BigJohnT> cool
[11:00:32] <alex_joni> http://www.automatica-muenchen.de/
[11:01:17] <BigJohnT> cool, an automation trade fair
[11:01:58] <BigJohnT> are you going to be an exibitor?
[11:02:11] <alex_joni> a bit ;)
[11:02:45] <BigJohnT> cool
[11:02:57] <sendo> didnt a big fair just end in the hannover messe?
[11:03:30] <alex_joni> sendo: yup.. different one though
[11:03:46] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: there's a european project I was working on that gets shown at automatica
[11:03:55] <sendo> yeah i was supposed to go there
[11:03:57] <alex_joni> and the robot company we work with also has a booth
[11:04:14] <BigJohnT> cool
[11:04:17] <alex_joni> but I'll only visit during the setup phase, and a day when it starts
[11:23:57] <alex_joni> well.. see you guys later ;)
[11:25:10] <BigJohnT> ok have a safe trip
[11:55:54] <sendo> has anybody worked with GCAM?
[13:28:45] <gezr> the GM volt eh? looks a bit heavy for an electric. but I guess 40mile/charge is enough
[13:38:04] <SWPadnos> why Volt, when you can Tesla? http://www.teslamotors.com/
[13:39:16] <archivist> hmm want one
[13:41:09] <gezr> I cant afford an electric vehical
[13:41:10] <Jymm> * Jymm hands SWPadnos the grounding rod
[13:41:38] <SWPadnos> oh come on, they're only $109k
[13:42:22] <gezr> and the 5 year note on that is what 2.5k/month?
[13:42:51] <SWPadnos> well, you'd have to do a European-style car loan, 30 years
[13:42:53] <gezr> Ican hire a team of men to pull me around in a rickshaw for less then that i bet
[13:43:04] <SWPadnos> but it would likely last that long, it's just a motor and some batteries
[13:43:28] <SWPadnos> in Bangkok, sure, but what about poor New Yorkers who can't get a rickshaw?
[13:43:48] <gezr> they cant get an electric car either, is my point
[13:44:05] <SWPadnos> well, New Yorkers can - they just have to skip one mortgage/rent payment
[13:44:51] <gezr> maybe if they were modular, like you drive home, when you get home, the motor slides out, and into a cradel that lets the motor power your washer/dryer/air moving unit. while the batteries rechage
[13:46:03] <gezr> but making a 1.5ton electric car isnt what we need
[13:47:11] <BigJohnT> I was wondering the other day why I needed a 3000 lb truck to haul 200 lbs around...
[13:48:17] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT needs to get busy on my electric motorcycle
[13:49:08] <gezr> its really simple, if were really wanting to be more ecologicaly friendly, then we need to modify our street/highway system, seperate freight, and commuter
[13:50:00] <gezr> if ups can ship stuff over night, then the B&B railroad can surely do it in 2 days
[13:50:13] <BigJohnT> HA! NOT!
[13:50:30] <BigJohnT> dealing with the RR is the biggest PIA I ever had
[13:50:44] <gezr> thats what im saying, our freight system is a joke
[13:50:48] <BigJohnT> instead of being easy to ship they make it as difficult as possible
[13:51:06] <gezr> bingo, another problem discovered
[13:51:17] <BigJohnT> but the government and the union say it has to be that way with the RR
[13:51:47] <gezr> do you think that an indy car driver would want to enter his little bittie car in a nascar race?
[13:52:25] <gezr> hell no he wouldnt, sure his car is safe, but in the event he hits a nascar semi out there, he is a gonner
[13:53:15] <gezr> thats all im saying really, our rail system is underused cause it sucks, too many semis on the road doing long haul, in fact too many huge semi's doing short hall too
[13:54:02] <gezr> you guys know what im talking aobut, semi pulls up to unload, he opens the door to the triler, and there is maybe 10k lbs in it
[13:54:42] <gezr> do those trucks burn more fuel if they are pulling 60k then when pulling 10k?
[13:56:25] <gezr> I may seem anti trucker, but im not, its a job for a lot of people, but I just think the methods their employers use are stoopid
[13:57:57] <BigJohnT> well there are two classes of truck freight LTL and Full Truck Load. If you the shipper wants/needs to ship one pallet you have to use LTL...
[13:58:36] <gezr> yeah I know, but why cant a smaller truck be used to pick that pallet up, and taken to the distribution center, instead of using a full truck to do the exact same thing
[13:59:48] <gezr> jb hunt, saia, usfreight, calark, the list goes on and on, of compaines that will send an empty trailer to pick up one pallet, just to bring it back to the distro house to be put into another truck for transit
[13:59:52] <BigJohnT> just depends on where you live. In the case of here LTL's don't just come to Poplar Bluff to pick up they make a swing through many towns to fill the trailer then it goes back to the big city
[14:00:20] <gezr> yeah, thats how it is a lot of the time, but in some cases its not
[14:00:33] <gezr> its all a matter of the routing
[14:00:43] <BigJohnT> and who you pick depends on their price that day
[14:00:54] <gezr> yep
[14:00:54] <BigJohnT> it's all about price
[14:01:00] <gezr> good point
[14:01:07] <gezr> I have to go to class now
[14:01:18] <gezr> I dont like the volt is all
[14:01:20] <BigJohnT> have fun
[14:01:33] <gezr> too many old things to change i guess
[14:01:35] <BigJohnT> what is a volt
[14:01:42] <gezr> the new electric car from gm
[14:07:51] <BigJohnT> Oh Boy it's time to pay quarterly taxes
[15:11:54] <Rugludallur> imho it's actually very simple, Do you want electric cars that run directly off the mains, at speeds around 300km/h (190mhp), are auto steering and can haul as much cargo as you want
[15:12:10] <BigJohnT> Rugludallur: hi
[15:12:16] <Rugludallur> BigJohnT: hey :)
[15:12:28] <SWPadnos> Rugludallur, sounds like the ICE trains :)
[15:12:42] <Rugludallur> High speed trains make a whole lot of sense in my mind
[15:12:45] <BigJohnT> no, I just want to haul my fat butt back and forth from my fab shop to my machine shop
[15:13:02] <SWPadnos> put your two shops next to each other, and walk your fat butt between them ;)
[15:13:13] <archivist> hehe
[15:13:38] <Rugludallur> so mixed zoning is the solution :)
[15:13:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:13:54] <archivist> * archivist starts new company fat butt haulage corp
[15:14:23] <archivist> Rugludallur, over here they are busy seperating the old mixed zones
[15:15:22] <Rugludallur> archivist: same here, I live in an area they designated as industrial, effectively i'm not allowed to reside at this address :P
[15:15:27] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: then I would not have a fatt butt if I walked
[15:15:34] <SWPadnos> hmmm. that is a problem
[15:15:39] <SWPadnos> well, you could eat more
[15:15:49] <BigJohnT> now your talking
[15:16:00] <Rugludallur> hmm a segway might help
[15:16:08] <SWPadnos> hahahahaha
[15:16:10] <SWPadnos> um, yeah
[15:16:16] <BigJohnT> Rugludallur: I live in the woods and there is no regulations
[15:16:45] <BigJohnT> if the neighbors shoot at you you shoot back :)
[15:17:21] <Rugludallur> BigJohnT: Sounds like the kind of place I would like to get, I just need to find a way to quit my dayjob so I don't have to commute
[15:17:56] <Rugludallur> BigJohnT: the only difference is that we don't have trees, so it's just out in the open
[15:18:23] <SWPadnos> icky poo
[15:18:36] <BigJohnT> right now you can't see 50' through the woods it is so green
[15:20:11] <BigJohnT> well I have to reboot this windows machine... or as GM said if they designed cars like microsoft you would have to press the start to stop it...
[15:20:31] <SWPadnos> you can use alt-F4 too, I think
[15:20:43] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:20:51] <BigJohnT> SWPadnos: that is one of my favorite key combinations
[15:21:11] <BigJohnT> be back in a bit
[15:21:18] <SWPadnos> could be surprising if there's no application focused and you get a prompt ro reboot/restart/etc :)
[15:49:36] <anonimasu> hello
[15:49:49] <renesis> no u!
[15:49:57] <anonimasu> *hides*
[15:50:18] <anonimasu> tomp2: I now have like 0.002mm of slop in the Z axis
[15:52:51] <tomp2> 2u! classy!
[15:53:16] <archivist> is that spring or slop
[15:53:57] <BigJohnT> how do you measure that small? thats like 0.0000787"
[15:54:30] <anonimasu> the linear scales on the machine claims it to be that small
[15:54:47] <anonimasu> archivist: I dont know.. it's probably pitch inaccuracy of the screw
[15:55:20] <BigJohnT> cool
[15:55:25] <tomp2> 1um scales, time for a laser qualification! ( got 6 machines doing that now :)
[15:55:33] <anonimasu> lol
[15:55:36] <archivist> 2U is the absolute limit of my measuring here
[15:56:04] <anonimasu> dosent matter
[15:56:23] <anonimasu> I cut a circle and my digital caliper said 70.00
[15:56:23] <anonimasu> :p
[15:57:03] <tomp2> any difference in surface finishes ( in an X move )?
[15:57:13] <tomp2> move/cut
[15:57:14] <anonimasu> yeah all surface finishes looks alot smoother
[15:57:20] <anonimasu> I've just been cutting plastic today
[15:57:37] <tomp2> great, thats a beauty of a machine tool
[15:57:44] <anonimasu> still the surfaces with the ball endmill dont end up as ~
[15:58:00] <anonimasu> as before
[15:58:57] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[15:59:12] <anonimasu> now I might finally stop having a pain with aluminium
[16:03:56] <anonimasu> tomp2: laser calibration -_- sounds expensive
[16:09:32] <archivist> we need an open sauce home brew laser method
[16:12:12] <anonimasu> hehe
[16:15:06] <anonimasu> hm, anyone got any neat tricks to make your own V bits?
[16:15:10] <anonimasu> for like engraving
[16:15:21] <Dallur> hmm so I need to design a 10$ interferometer now ?
[16:15:34] <archivist> Dallur yup
[16:15:42] <anonimasu> Yes
[16:16:23] <archivist> I grind up engraving bits here, not too hard
[16:17:03] <anonimasu> by hand_
[16:17:06] <anonimasu> ?
[16:17:16] <archivist> hmm nearly
[16:17:19] <anonimasu> no coordinate tables or fancy stuff involved..
[16:17:21] <anonimasu> ?
[16:17:37] <archivist> on a tool grinder but hand rotated
[16:18:19] <anonimasu> ok
[16:18:23] <archivist> all guessed setup
[16:19:48] <archivist> on an approx 1920's (or earlier) tool and cutter grinder belt driven with hand movements
[16:20:37] <anonimasu> hehe
[16:20:37] <anonimasu> :p
[16:20:49] <archivist> quality of finish is related to how the grinding wheel is dressed with a diamond
[16:21:40] <archivist> we dont allow any health and safety inspectors in here
[16:21:55] <anonimasu> I have a drill bit grinder
[16:22:05] <anonimasu> like a fairly big one :)
[16:23:07] <archivist> dress the wheel slowly with the diamond held in a traversing device
[16:23:21] <anonimasu> yep
[16:24:05] <archivist> mount cutter in collet and remove 50% like a D bit
[16:24:17] <archivist> keep cool
[16:24:25] <fenn> no HSS?
[16:24:48] <archivist> still not nice to get hss too hot
[16:25:04] <anonimasu> I dont have a collet to mount it in
[16:25:13] <fenn> use some bubble gum
[16:25:19] <fenn> chill with liquid nitrogen
[16:25:21] <archivist> drill chuck
[16:25:26] <anonimasu> heh, not on the grinder
[16:25:45] <fenn> oh come on, you dont have any crappy drill chucks?
[16:25:59] <anonimasu> Yes, but I have no clue how to make them mount into the grinder
[16:26:08] <archivist> grind the 45/60 degree ish
[16:26:15] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:26:34] <anonimasu> I've got a valve grinder that might be useable for it
[16:26:47] <anonimasu> with coller and powered rotation
[16:26:49] <anonimasu> collet..
[16:26:51] <archivist> then for the final gring dont go all the way rount so the is relief
[16:27:19] <fenn> you dont grind it eccentric?
[16:27:20] <archivist> then for the final grind dont go all the way round so there is relief
[16:27:26] <archivist> nope
[16:27:50] <anonimasu> got any picture of what you mean?
[16:28:03] <archivist> not at the moment
[16:28:22] <anonimasu> can you make ascii art of it?
[16:28:23] <fenn> anonimasu: the wheel is round, so you will be making a curved concave surface as you grind away
[16:28:29] <anonimasu> yeah
[16:28:48] <archivist> I need to do a sequence of pics in the bowels of this place
[16:28:50] <fenn> so, the cutter lip will stick out a bit above the rest of the cone surface
[16:29:04] <anonimasu> http://www.yldor.cn/upImgFile/2008222153438J3.2001_0559.jpg
[16:29:21] <archivist> fenn not if presented to the wheel correctly
[16:29:43] <fenn> archivist: i thought making the lip stick out was the whole point
[16:30:29] <archivist> yes but no concave grinding needed
[16:31:03] <archivist> I actually use a cup wheel
[16:31:28] <fenn> seems like it should work either way
[16:31:32] <archivist> but side of a normal wheel will do
[16:32:06] <archivist> yes can be a small amount concave (will be miniscule)
[16:33:07] <archivist> as one tilts the cutter about 7-12 degrees to start on the last cut
[16:34:04] <archivist> we tend to make blunter stronger cutters than that pic
[16:34:53] <archivist> we cut out brass sheet with an engraving machine
[16:36:04] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[16:36:09] <anonimasu> I think I'll just copy thoose bits
[16:37:18] <archivist> ours are tapered shank to suit the machine
[16:40:18] <anonimasu> I see
[16:45:23] <anonimasu> brb
[16:45:24] <anonimasu> dinner
[17:43:35] <anonimasu> hm
[17:43:39] <anonimasu> who here was talking about gear grinding?
[17:44:50] <anonimasu> err gear hobbing I think
[17:46:50] <rayh> I was a while ago.
[17:46:50] <fenn> dmess
[17:47:02] <fenn> oh, archivist too
[17:47:18] <anonimasu> tey seem to do profile grinding of teeth instead of hobbing
[17:56:43] <SkinnYPup> Anyone around with experience resurfacing auto flywheels?
[17:57:12] <anonimasu> im pondering making some delerin gears
[17:57:17] <anonimasu> but im not sure how to grind the cutter
[17:57:37] <renesis_> mmmmmm, delrin
[17:59:07] <awallin> anyone machined Teflon? are there any special tricks?
[18:01:16] <anonimasu> sharp tools
[18:01:51] <BigJohnT> YES did some today
[18:02:09] <BigJohnT> and slow rpm and fast feeds
[18:02:24] <BigJohnT> to add to what anonimasu said
[18:04:05] <renesis_> hehe, plastic is fun
[18:04:17] <renesis_> if you fuckup it foams up and gets all into the flutes then hardens
[18:04:22] <SkinnYPup> anonimasu: this may be of interest http://www.mec.ugal.ro/Anale/TCM/2006/L19%20-%20Annale%20UDJG%202006%20Fascicula%20V.pdf
[18:06:07] <BigJohnT> renesis_: going a bit fast I bet to get to that stage
[18:06:13] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:06:18] <renesis_> use baby oil!
[18:06:37] <renesis_> acrylic chips in babyoil is awesome
[18:06:50] <renesis_> looks like you put ice slushee all over the mill
[18:07:16] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:07:41] <anonimasu> I've heard some platic machines better when you put it into the freezer
[18:08:01] <renesis_> yeah because you get kinda a headstart on keeping it cool
[18:08:08] <anonimasu> and more solid
[18:08:11] <anonimasu> ofcourse
[18:08:15] <renesis_> yeh, so it chips instead of rips
[18:08:20] <anonimasu> yep
[18:08:25] <fenn> anonimasu: superglue for holding the teflon
[18:08:25] <anonimasu> same as super sharp tools
[18:08:30] <renesis_> plastic is fun
[18:08:33] <anonimasu> and it seems like some places age teflon for getting tolerances right
[18:08:43] <BigJohnT> some plastics need to be heat treated for best cutting...
[18:08:59] <renesis_> delrin is easy tho
[18:09:05] <anonimasu> yep
[18:09:11] <renesis_> i do that shit dry, fast, never had problems
[18:09:21] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT likes delrin
[18:09:27] <renesis_> is like godplastic
[18:09:33] <anonimasu> yep
[18:09:38] <anonimasu> same with me
[18:09:41] <anonimasu> delerin is nice :)
[18:09:44] <renesis_> i love getting blocks of it and banging it on my head
[18:09:48] <renesis_> its like light marble!
[18:10:01] <anonimasu> uh
[18:10:07] <anonimasu> scary :p
[18:10:21] <renesis_> not like 100lb blocks!
[18:10:30] <renesis_> like 6x6x.5 or something
[18:10:37] <renesis_> omg 100lbs of delrin would be so awesome
[18:10:40] <BigJohnT> this is a part I make on the side in delrin http://suburb.semo.net/jet1024/Rotating%20Racking%20Arm.htm
[18:10:46] <anonimasu> I have some 3m bars of delerin
[18:11:13] <anonimasu> well, about 1.5m left of them
[18:11:50] <anonimasu> they are damn heavy
[18:11:50] <anonimasu> :)
[18:12:02] <anonimasu> 170mm dia
[18:12:41] <anonimasu> SkinnYPup: thanks
[18:12:46] <anonimasu> SkinnYPup: I think that's overkill for me :p
[18:12:55] <anonimasu> SkinnYPup: I want some quick and dirty delerin gears
[18:14:29] <SkinnYPup> anonimasu: Know the feeling. I would like a quick dirty way to make single point involute cutters from lathe tool blanks.
[18:14:34] <anonimasu> lol
[18:14:41] <anonimasu> I wonder if I should cut a profile on the nc mill and use as guide when sharpening the cutter
[18:15:13] <fenn> SkinnYPup: bench grinder?
[18:15:24] <fenn> how quick and dirty can it be
[18:15:34] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:16:43] <anonimasu> but im not sure im op to the task..
[18:16:51] <anonimasu> up..
[18:17:10] <anonimasu> * anonimasu dosent want any involute crap or anything
[18:18:31] <fenn> seems like making a hob is almost as easy, and you get a more accurate gear in the end
[18:18:55] <anonimasu> hm, I were thinking of grinding a single tooth cutter
[18:19:02] <anonimasu> err single point
[18:20:24] <fenn> single point cutter would have an involute curve on it
[18:21:02] <fenn> it would be interesting to 'hob' a gear using a single tooth cutter with a straight triangle shape
[18:21:17] <anonimasu> well, that was the thought I had..
[18:21:38] <fenn> you could do it with cnc, advancing by one gear tooth each rotation, and then repeating the cut at a different Y axis position (or whatver axis it is)
[18:21:51] <fenn> so as to pretend you're using a rack cutter
[18:22:13] <anonimasu> I dont have a rotary table on the big mill
[18:22:17] <anonimasu> so it'd have to be made by hand
[18:25:31] <fenn> oh i see, the gear bootstrapping problem
[18:25:47] <anonimasu> hehe, I have a rotary table though
[18:25:57] <anonimasu> a manual one without divider attachment
[18:26:16] <anonimasu> I should do it tomorrow
[18:29:03] <acemi_> acemi_ is now known as acemi__
[18:29:46] <SkinnYPup> fenn yeah been there with the bench grinder, but it leaves a little more to be desired in profile uniformness
[18:30:24] <acemi__> acemi__ is now known as acemi_
[18:31:10] <acemi_> acemi_ is now known as acemi__
[18:33:40] <acemi__> acemi__ is now known as acemi_
[19:09:19] <anonimasu> I think I'll cut a profile guide on the mill at work
[19:09:38] <anonimasu> then grind the profile after that..
[19:13:26] <SkinnYPup> anonimasu: this guy seems to have a decent method by spacing the hob teeth RACK distance apart, theres 4 parts to this on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMS2un-kbg0
[19:14:31] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:17:35] <anonimasu> mh
[19:17:36] <anonimasu> hmm
[19:19:41] <SkinnYPup> Yeah looks simple enough using a 40 deg tool for a 20 deg pressure angle
[19:22:00] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:22:06] <anonimasu> im not sure how the tools have to look
[19:26:37] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fps0OR1eF_s&NR=1
[19:29:54] <anonimasu> hm..
[19:29:59] <anonimasu> I could turn thoose tools, by hand..
[20:10:31] <anonimasu> heh.
[20:10:44] <anonimasu> actually I could grind them if my bench grinder wheel werent like \
[20:20:56] <Jymm> anonimasu: No problem... just tilt the whole grinder about /
[20:21:15] <Jymm> anonimasu: Then it'll be |
[20:24:31] <anonimasu> oh I have a new grinder but the wheen is ~
[20:26:55] <anonimasu> crap.
[20:27:04] <anonimasu> disturbing.
[20:27:17] <anonimasu> Jymm: I cant grind a straight edge no matter what I do today
[20:27:23] <anonimasu> better quit before I grind a arm off.
[20:34:05] <anonimasu> better stop while im still ahead
[20:53:49] <anonimasu> hm
[20:53:58] <anonimasu> now how the hell do you calculate the divsion for gear tooth?
[20:54:33] <BigJohnT> hmm
[20:55:08] <anonimasu> like how many degrees you need to divide them to get the correct width of the teeth
[20:55:18] <anonimasu> circumfence / tooth width*2?
[20:56:40] <BigJohnT> for the gear hob or the gear?
[20:56:49] <anonimasu> gear
[20:57:17] <BigJohnT> the gear is going to be the 360/ number of teeth
[20:57:35] <anonimasu> Yes, I know
[20:57:46] <BigJohnT> then I don't understand the question
[20:57:49] <anonimasu> but the division.. is what im wondering about.
[20:58:48] <anonimasu> if my cutouts are 2mm wide at the top
[20:58:56] <anonimasu> and I want to calculate the spacing of them on my gear
[20:59:57] <anonimasu> do you understand the problem?
[21:00:11] <anonimasu> I drew a tooth in my cad program
[21:00:19] <anonimasu> err cutout.
[21:00:43] <anonimasu> and I want to know how to space it on my gear to make the tooth as wide in the top as in the bottom
[21:01:41] <BigJohnT> oh, your wanting to know the profile of a tooth?
[21:02:01] <anonimasu> No, I want to know what kind of spacing I need for my cutouts to make the tooth profiles match
[21:04:01] <fenn> the tooth profile is based on the rack cutter profile, which usually has equal width teeth and not-teeth
[21:04:34] <anonimasu> ffs. do you not read the question?
[21:05:24] <anonimasu> I'm drawing a gear in my cad program and the thing im asking is how I do calculate the spacing I need to get my tooth profiles mesh properly
[21:05:26] <fenn> if you have a tooth already that you're happy with, just make a circle of radius (width of tooth*num teeth)/2pi
[21:05:50] <fenn> the mesh distance is where the pitch circles touch
[21:06:11] <fenn> center distance..
[21:06:14] <Jymm> He wants to know how to calculate the dimensions, etc toso that n number of teeth will fit a certain diameter gesr (iiuc)
[21:06:22] <anonimasu> thanks jumm
[21:06:24] <anonimasu> jymm
[21:07:04] <fenn> ok if gear diameter = d, then tooth width = pi*d/n
[21:07:07] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT looks in his Machinery's Handbook
[21:07:13] <anonimasu> maybe I should open mine ^^
[21:07:20] <BigJohnT> yea
[21:07:47] <fenn> that's measuring d at the base of the tooth i think
[21:07:51] <fenn> depending on how you measure the tooth
[21:08:32] <Jymm> See, I understood what he wanted the first time he asked, but had nfc what the answer was. No ho wy'all were to understnad my fscking typos yet not under his question is beyond me
[21:08:52] <anonimasu> :p
[21:09:01] <fenn> wtf is a 'cutout'?
[21:09:36] <anonimasu> it's something you cut away
[21:11:35] <BigJohnT> anonimasu: all the formulas are in the machinery handbook and there is a bunch of them...
[21:11:56] <anonimasu> yeah.. I know, just didnt occur to me to look inside of it :p
[21:12:35] <BigJohnT> I'm looking at mine and it made me start drinking
[21:12:51] <fenn> it doesnt take much does it
[21:13:03] <anonimasu> lol
[21:13:04] <BigJohnT> any excuse is a good one
[21:14:28] <anonimasu> why do you need a excuse?
[21:14:38] <BigJohnT> I don't really need one
[21:15:12] <anonimasu> I were just kidding
[21:15:12] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:15:16] <BigJohnT> I know
[21:15:38] <BigJohnT> here is how you zip tie a $800 machine torch to a cnc plasma table http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=460166#post460166
[21:16:21] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:17:17] <fenn> BigJohnT: do you think a plasma cut gear rack would be usable for anything?
[21:17:42] <BigJohnT> yes if it is done with hi dev plasma
[21:18:02] <BigJohnT> we had flame cut gears on jackup oil rigs to lift the rig out of the water
[21:18:18] <anonimasu> :)
[21:18:26] <anonimasu> waterjet rocks for making gears ^^
[21:18:47] <anonimasu> I've just seen some cut by waterjet
[21:18:50] <anonimasu> it was awesome
[21:18:51] <BigJohnT> for something small I'd just machine it on the mill with a cutter
[21:19:00] <anonimasu> the ones I saw were in stainless
[21:19:03] <anonimasu> very very intricate
[21:19:47] <BigJohnT> ok, I've slammed mach for the last time today on cnc time to go home :)
[21:20:19] <BigJohnT> talk to you guys later
[21:21:00] <jepler> hahaha "Manpower provides a simple, elegant three-pane interface that makes reading man pages as easy as reading e-mail." -- apparently you'd normally be taken to the cleaners to the tune of 20 bucks to buy this on your mac, but today they'll only rip you off for $12! http://maczot.com/
[21:21:19] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:58:39] <dmess> hi all