#emc | Logs for 2008-06-03

[00:02:26] <gezr> whoot, shapping metal
[00:18:08] <gezr> my camera made a funky video, looks like it was catching mid shots, really strange
[00:26:09] <a-l-p-h-a> K`zan!
[00:41:26] <K`zan_emc> Hey a-l-p-h-a, just got a ubuntu beaten to fit this old box. Was afraid I was going to have to run wincrap to get a screen I could use :-).
[01:02:50] <gezr> looks like im going ot have to make a 1/2 10 acme screw, and tap for my shaper
[01:02:57] <gezr> and a new nut
[01:03:13] <gezr> the I guess X drive screw is in bad shape
[01:30:31] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[02:08:03] <stustev> good evening
[02:08:38] <cradek> whoa, it's stuart
[02:09:05] <cradek> I didn't know you would be getting parole so soon
[02:09:06] <stustev> :)
[02:09:14] <cradek> err, I mean, long time no see!
[02:09:15] <JymmmEMC> jail break?
[02:09:25] <stustev> something like that
[02:09:59] <stustev> I have my gear change component working on the G&L
[02:10:19] <cradek> slick
[02:10:26] <stustev> It shifts gears according to the speed command
[02:10:54] <stustev> I will publish it tomorrow
[02:11:06] <cradek> is that machine done now?
[02:11:34] <stustev> I need to add a little delay to the downshift to let the spindle get completely stopped before shifting
[02:11:47] <stustev> Not done yet. Two things.
[02:12:49] <stustev> connect the motor encoder from the Z axis (the table carrier) and fix the y axis scale. during the hydrostatic bladder fix the y axis scale quit.
[02:13:18] <cradek> heck, I hope it's not serious
[02:13:18] <stustev> I am hoping it is just a gap adjustment
[02:14:10] <cradek> so it is running dual feedback on everything but the quill?
[02:14:16] <stustev> I think the y axis will position accurate with the ball screw and the motor encoder
[02:14:24] <stustev> It will be
[02:14:40] <cradek> neat. I was really happy with how that worked.
[02:15:24] <cradek> how is the cinci?
[02:15:24] <stustev> currently the Z axis (table carrier) is positioning with the scale only and the Y axis is positioning with the motor only. The X axis is dual.
[02:15:53] <stustev> We are wiring the motor encoder in tomorrow for the Z axis. It will then be dual.
[02:16:40] <stustev> We have the cinci spindle transmission apart on a cart. (I am a poet)
[02:16:58] <cradek> that sounds serious.
[02:18:15] <stustev> the detent balls for one of the gear slides was stuck. wouldn't shift gears. we built longer bullet nose detents from A2 and hardened and ground them
[02:19:16] <cradek> wow, that's the beauty of having more than one machine
[02:19:58] <stustev> We had a lightening strike Memorial day weekend. Three machine were dead Tuesday morning.
[02:20:33] <stustev> finally got the last one going today
[02:20:37] <cradek> wow
[02:20:43] <cradek> all control failures?
[02:22:06] <stustev> cpu board and rs232 board on the 5020 Fadal. A solenoid coil on the VF-6 Haas. A solenoid coil on the VF-10 Haas.
[02:23:12] <cradek> that sounds like an expensive lightning strike.
[02:23:26] <stustev> I am hoping insurance will cover it.
[02:24:06] <cradek> did you see anders's videos of his mini mill rigid tapping today?
[02:24:11] <stustev> It should. We have what is called Boiler's insurance. It has covered it before.
[02:24:36] <stustev> NO! I will look.
[02:24:46] <cradek> http://www.anderswallin.net/2008/06/rigid-tapping/
[02:25:00] <cradek> his spindle is so fast you can't see the reversals
[02:34:13] <stustev> looks very good
[02:34:51] <cradek> yes I'm happy to see others using it. I don't think many emc machines are set up to tap yet.
[02:35:01] <cradek> mine will be one of these days.
[02:35:44] <stustev> I will work to add rigid tapping on the G&L. The quill should allow it.
[02:36:39] <stustev> I don't think the cinci is tight enough to do it. 5 axis rigid tapping would be neat though.
[02:37:02] <cradek> yes it would!
[02:37:15] <cradek> I even think it would work as-is with G33.1
[02:38:23] <stustev> Yes I agree but with the slop in the machine the threads would be sloppy IF the tap backed out. When the machine moves sideways with the tap in the hole it is not conducive to long tap life.
[02:38:42] <cradek> yes I suppose not.
[02:39:19] <stustev> I might try it just for the fun of it. Not might I am sure I will try it. Just don't expect too much success. :)
[02:39:21] <cradek> my machine has some play in the quill spline. I hope it doesn't cause a similar problem.
[02:39:43] <cradek> maybe you can always use very big taps!
[02:40:10] <stustev> :)
[02:40:57] <cradek> can you see the private irc messages I sent?
[02:41:21] <cradek> I think freenode drops them if you are not registered
[02:41:27] <stustev> The pulse generator on the G&L will not move the W axis. It will move X Y and Z but not W. I didn't have time to look at it today. I will tomorrow. I probably missed the configuration during the changes.
[02:41:42] <stustev> I haven't seen any private messages. How do I register?
[02:41:43] <SWPadnos> you can set yourself to be able to see private messages from unregistered users
[02:41:46] <SWPadnos> hi :)
[02:41:51] <cradek> hi SWPadnos
[02:41:58] <SWPadnos> "/msg mickserv help"
[02:42:01] <stustev> Hi Steve
[02:42:29] <cradek> it silently dropped the messages then with no sign of trouble.
[02:43:02] <cradek> stustev: W is not a real joint, so you cannot jog it with the wheel YET. this is one of the things jmk's rewrite of free mode (jogging) will fix.
[02:43:02] <stustev> I found them
[02:43:25] <cradek> oh I take that back, W is a joint on the G&L
[02:43:33] <cradek> G&L is trivkins, so it should work
[02:43:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:43:56] <SWPadnos> so W is the quill and Z is the table now?
[02:44:15] <stustev> Yes
[02:44:52] <stustev> I changed them in the config files. that may be why it doesn't work. I have been known to make a mistake now and then.
[02:45:00] <SWPadnos> no way!
[02:45:52] <stustev> Yes WAY big time
[02:46:14] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:46:48] <SWPadnos> are you saying that the MPG won't jog the W joint/axis, or that the axis never moves under EMCe control?
[02:46:49] <SWPadnos> EMC2
[02:47:09] <stustev> the MPG won
[02:47:14] <stustev> 't jog it
[02:47:18] <SWPadnos> (I was having a hard time deciding whether you meant MPG or PWM when you said "pulse")
[02:47:20] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:47:24] <Roguish_> hey all, where the heck can i find docs on pack(3tk)
[02:47:34] <SWPadnos> man 3 pack ?
[02:47:47] <Roguish_> ok, i'll try that.
[02:47:59] <SWPadnos> http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.4/TkCmd/pack.htm
[02:48:41] <Roguish_> ya, that's it. thanks. i'm working on a pyvcp.
[02:48:43] <stustev> I had a local used machine dealer call. He saw the 5 axis cinci on youtube. He wants to put the control on some machines and sell them.
[02:49:06] <SWPadnos> heh - too funny
[02:49:13] <SWPadnos> that'll never work.
[02:49:16] <SWPadnos> hey, ir works!
[02:49:17] <jepler> Roguish_: apt-file tells me that you can get that from tk8.4-doc (apt-file search pack.3tk)
[02:49:18] <SWPadnos> it
[02:50:21] <cradek> that actually sounds somewhat profitable
[02:51:21] <stustev> it could very well be profitable. The most important part would be setting up some type of service department or organization.
[02:51:40] <SWPadnos> well, the control software is free, so it's a $5000 savings (or $150, if Mach would be able to run the particular machine)
[02:51:47] <stustev> I think EMC could be ready for that shortly but service could be a problem.
[02:52:18] <stustev> the software is free but the installation would not be
[02:52:33] <cradek> I hope someone starts soon, so I can pay him to do my bridgeport
[02:52:44] <stustev> LOL LOL LOL
[02:52:54] <cradek> then it would get done!
[02:53:10] <stustev> I know that!!!
[02:53:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:53:35] <SWPadnos> then there's my Bridgeport ;)
[02:53:59] <cradek> if mine was manual I'd probably have it retrofitted already
[02:54:13] <stustev> that works well - write the software for free and then pay someone to install it
[02:54:21] <SWPadnos> if mine were CNC< I'd probably have it retrofitted already :)
[02:55:29] <stustev> when you look at it from a shop owners perspective the service and repair are a VERY important consideration
[02:56:03] <SWPadnos> that's generally about getting service from the installer though, not necessarily the software vendor
[02:56:04] <cradek> how do shops handle it when there isn't a local tech? do they expect to pay to fly someone in when something goes wrong?
[02:56:37] <toastydeath> usually they just don't buy the machine in that case, from what i have seen
[02:56:38] <stustev> yes
[02:57:02] <toastydeath> or they contract a local machine repair outfit who is familiar, but not affiliated with the mfg
[02:57:11] <stustev> depends on the machine and capabilities.
[02:57:16] <toastydeath> indeed it does
[02:58:07] <Roguish_> ok, thanks, but that didn
[02:58:15] <Roguish_> t work very well.
[02:59:37] <Roguish_> if i do the apt-file search, i get 'tk8.3-doc: /usr/share/man/man3/pack.3tk.gz'
[02:59:44] <Roguish_> what does that mean?
[03:00:00] <SWPadnos> it tells me you're using tk8.3
[03:00:03] <cradek> if you want the pack.3tk manpage, install the package tk8.3-doc
[03:00:04] <Roguish_> obviously i'm not too linuxed.
[03:00:13] <cradek> SWPadnos: no, that's not right
[03:00:14] <SWPadnos> the page I linked was for 8.4, which could matter
[03:00:26] <cradek> apt-file searches available packages, not installed packages
[03:01:16] <SWPadnos> shouldn't it show the most recent version if there are multiples?
[03:01:45] <Roguish_> the '3' comes from a reference in the wiki on pyVCP.
[03:02:28] <Roguish_> i don't know what i have, 3 or 4 or what. just looking for docs on how to make the panel look better.
[03:02:42] <SWPadnos> that 3 has nothing to do with the 3 in "man 3 pack"
[03:03:16] <SWPadnos> man pages are separated into sections depending on what the commands are meant for (system admin, programming, user programs ...)
[03:03:30] <Roguish_> 'refer to the Tk pack manual page, pack(3tk)'
[03:03:53] <Roguish_> on page: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/hal_vcp.html
[03:04:54] <SWPadnos> that appears to be shown on the web man page I linked
[03:04:55] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos, any hopes of u comin down to help? lol
[03:05:01] <SWPadnos> Gamma-X, not many ;)
[03:05:15] <SWPadnos> at least not soon. I don't know when I'll be in the area next
[03:05:35] <Gamma-X> dammit
[03:06:44] <Gamma-X> anyone else in my areA?
[03:06:56] <SWPadnos> about 4 million people or so :)
[03:06:58] <cradek> * cradek tries to read Gamma-X's mind and fails
[03:07:11] <Gamma-X> someone in my area that can stop by and lend me a hand.
[03:07:15] <SWPadnos> PID tuning with scales and no encoders maybe?
[03:07:59] <Gamma-X> correct
[03:09:55] <Gamma-X> if i buy the encoders, can i just type in values based on the encoders?
[03:11:26] <stustev> good night
[03:11:48] <SWPadnos> Gamma-X, yes, that's the best way
[03:12:23] <SWPadnos> if you have good velocity-mode servo amps, then you may be aboe to have a setup like stustev has
[03:12:39] <SWPadnos> (vel mode PID using the encoders, plus I gain ged from the scale)
[03:12:54] <SWPadnos> s/ged/fed/
[03:16:04] <Gamma-X> wich encoders would I be buying?
[03:17:13] <SWPadnos> whatever will fit on your motors
[03:17:25] <SWPadnos> these are serovs, right?
[03:17:27] <SWPadnos> servos
[03:24:51] <Gamma-X> yes
[03:25:07] <Gamma-X> sem ut35 or 45 i think
[04:55:18] <K`zan_emc> Sigh, trying to find the troubleshooting section of the wiki concerning not being able to zero/home. Can someone point?!? TIA.
[05:04:24] <K`zan_emc> sigh, still no luck. It was #3 in something....
[05:05:01] <K`zan> What I did was touch off and want to reset that before I shut down...
[05:09:55] <K`zan> Heh, I thought I backed up everything before changing machines :-(.
[07:55:41] <pjm_> good morning
[07:57:35] <Vq^> morning pjm
[08:03:51] <K`zan> Night folks! Some success today!
[08:27:30] <micge1> morning
[12:28:00] <RAFA> HELLO PEOPLE
[12:29:54] <RAFA> ?
[12:31:29] <rayh> Hi RAFA. The Nvidia works with EMC if you do not use their drivers.
[12:32:14] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[12:32:52] <RAFA> :)
[12:33:45] <RAFA> ?
[12:34:16] <rayh> No problem with English here.
[12:34:46] <rayh> There is a note in the wiki about the nvidia. Let me find the link for you.
[12:34:54] <RAFA> OK
[12:35:59] <rayh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#NVidia_and_ATI_graphics_cards
[12:36:11] <rayh> It suggests NV and vesa.
[12:36:51] <rayh> Yes. It does not show a driver in xorg.conf but if you add it then the system will start with the one you put there.
[12:37:36] <RAFA> OK
[12:37:42] <RAFA> THANKS FOA ALL
[12:37:54] <RAFA> :)
[12:48:28] <fenn> cradek: i wonder if you could use some kind of 'backlash compensation' for tapping with a sloppy quill spline
[13:43:48] <cradek> fenn: I bet so
[13:44:22] <cradek> it may be the same as the "time lag" compensation we already may need. it's one of the things I want to study at fest.
[13:46:25] <skunkworks> you guys are going to be so busy :)
[13:54:22] <cradek> oh we always have grand plans. sometime we actually get to a few of them
[13:56:47] <gezr> fest is mid of this month right?
[13:56:52] <cradek> yes
[13:57:06] <gezr> dang school
[13:58:15] <gezr> learned yesterday, that the professor, has decided to shave 2 weeks of the cal 2 course, not cause he is cutting material, but we should only need 8 weeks
[14:30:05] <cradek> heh, enco's website has steel rules of lengths 1", 2", 3", 4", 5.905511811", 6", ...
[14:34:24] <SWPadnos> funny. I guess they could have said "150mm" instead
[14:41:24] <cradek> darn, no decimal (1/10, 1/50 or 1/100) rules shorter than 6"
[14:41:42] <cradek> at enco, at least
[14:42:10] <cradek> I often want "how high is the tool above the work" and 6" is too long to fit in there
[14:42:24] <cradek> a 2" and 4" would be great for that
[14:42:46] <cradek> but, fractional rules suck for cnc.
[14:42:49] <skunkworks> shaper gauges are nice. but expensive.
[14:43:05] <SWPadnos> you could use a caliper (the kind they use for navigation) and measure against a separate rule
[14:43:27] <skunkworks> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=600-0049&PMPXNO=951855&PARTPG=INSRHI
[14:43:31] <cradek> true
[14:43:52] <skunkworks> I use one of those a lot. then use a digital mic to measure
[14:44:26] <skunkworks> holy crap - that price came down
[14:45:07] <cradek> I have a 20% off code too
[14:46:20] <cradek> I try to use heights like .125, .25, .5 and then I can roll a dowel pin in there to check it.
[14:47:44] <tom1> maybe, if a ruler was good enuf, then SWPadnos idea http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=377&PARTPG=INLMK3&PMITEM=635-6575 for 7$
[14:49:28] <cradek> wonder how thard these SPI rules are. I could just cut them off. they are cheap enough.
[14:49:38] <SWPadnos> aren't they stainless?
[14:49:52] <cradek> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=326-1373&PMPXNO=12387655&PARTPG=INLMK32
[14:49:59] <cradek> probably
[14:51:20] <SWPadnos> the SPI and Mitutoyo are stainless, thee Starrett aren't (I think)
[14:51:24] <SWPadnos> -e
[14:53:10] <SWPadnos> it would be great to be able to type "Z=2mm" into MDI for touch-off
[14:53:33] <SWPadnos> without changing G20/G21, of course
[14:54:03] <cradek> End 2/25.4 Enter
[14:54:19] <SWPadnos> oh, you can do math in there?
[14:54:27] <cradek> yes any gcode expression
[14:54:44] <cradek> sqrt[2]/2
[14:54:45] <SWPadnos> oh right - cool
[14:55:08] <cradek> or on a lathe: 1.234/2
[14:59:01] <skunkworks> that seems way too practical.
[15:03:09] <jepler> hm: I wonder if this case is useful enough to justify mm[] and in[] functions in gcode
[15:03:40] <jepler> (converts a value in mm or inches respectively into the right value in the prevailing G20/G21 units)
[15:05:17] <cradek> interesting
[15:11:33] <skunkworks> you would then need fathoms and such wouldn't you? ;)
[15:14:34] <cradek> if we had that, it would make things like touch-off simpler, since you wouldn't have to know the current units of the interpreter.
[15:51:18] <tom1> a system variable that shows the unit of measure (IsMM IsInch) accessible by the running program and ToolTableIsInch/MM and technologyTableIsInch/MM (ok, system variableS) would allow running app to determine what it needed to do
[15:51:50] <tom1> I have CallerIsInch/MM on Heid ( for subprograms to know how to handle 'foreign' units
[16:02:07] <fenn> just use a less crappy tool table format.. sheesh
[16:03:32] <archivist> some of us have to swap units all the time
[16:35:39] <cradek> what is technologyTable?
[16:53:53] <tom1> techTable for a mill would be speed feed for 1 operation with one tool. for EDM it's Ipk On Off Polarity Gain Gap .... same idea in different disciplines ( how to use this tool now )
[16:54:17] <cradek> I get it
[16:54:21] <tom1> and some data is linear measure
[16:54:53] <cradek> like the table would have ".5 cutter in aluminum about .25 deep"?
[16:58:12] <tom1> right techTables are actually identified by pairing the tool and the material
[17:11:28] <awallin> evening
[17:12:53] <micges> hi awallin
[17:50:42] <micge1> micge1 is now known as micges
[18:38:16] <gezr> how are you guys doing today?
[18:41:33] <fenn> soggy
[18:41:45] <fenn> rained 3 inches this afternoon
[18:47:35] <gezr> wow
[18:48:07] <gezr> can you sand an enamel layer before applying the last coat?
[18:49:01] <fenn> yep, wet sand with 600 grit on up
[18:49:16] <fenn> i hear dish soap helps
[18:49:35] <gezr> I have some 500, probably about the same
[18:49:40] <gezr> but the dish soap eh?
[18:49:48] <fenn> keeps it from clogging
[18:50:15] <gezr> good point
[18:50:20] <fenn> what are you painting?
[18:50:24] <gezr> bike frame
[18:50:49] <gezr> got it blasted, primed, sanded, primed, sanded, primed, 1st coat of enamel
[18:51:12] <gezr> it doesnt look perfect, but I had a lot of rust to contend with, maybe the next coat will take care of all of that
[18:51:47] <gezr> it does look 1000x better then it did originally. and well, I just need it right then get the motor back together, and hope to whomever it starts
[18:51:57] <gezr> if it starts ill poop myslef
[18:52:00] <fenn> primed three times sounds like a lot of work for no reason
[18:52:11] <skunkworks> anonimasu: what are you thoughts on eco-communities?
[18:52:18] <gezr> fenn: I had it rough blasted
[18:52:24] <gezr> needed to burn down some rust
[18:52:24] <fenn> oh, motorcycle frame, why bother.. nobody looks atthe frame anway
[18:52:53] <gezr> good point
[18:53:01] <gezr> but still, want it looking good :
[18:53:17] <anonimasu> hello
[18:53:22] <gezr> anonimasu: howdy
[18:53:31] <anonimasu> skunkworks: eco-communities?
[18:54:07] <anonimasu> skunkworks: I think they are a decent attempt to take on the whole world's climate problem in a small scale.
[18:54:10] <gezr> using a waterwheel to run machines in the garrage?
[18:54:55] <anonimasu> I dont think that will solve anything the real problem is the countries with no polution limits/laws..
[18:55:48] <anonimasu> it's like Sweden trying to save in on co production by making gas expensive
[18:56:07] <skunkworks> anonimasu: yes. We just went thru a 'natural step' program using sweden as an example
[18:56:24] <anonimasu> it's idiocy..
[18:56:33] <gezr> I think real solutions need to be discoverd first, or better implementation of what exists, anonimasu is right in terms of the global scope, but why should those who are doing what they can all be it in small steps to suffer while other nations are belching out the difference
[18:56:41] <anonimasu> we'd be better off making a nuclear powerplant and stop buying coal power from germany
[18:57:12] <anonimasu> and make EU put pressure on other countries.
[18:57:30] <anonimasu> first step would be to make trading with polution rights illegal.
[18:57:35] <gezr> I think were going to find it all moot in a few decades
[18:57:40] <anonimasu> agreed..
[18:57:53] <fenn> * fenn mumbles something about orbital solar collectors
[18:57:56] <gezr> I dont believe in global warming
[18:58:07] <anonimasu> I belive it's a natural cycle of heating.
[18:58:11] <anonimasu> partially
[18:58:24] <gezr> I dont see how a 75 ppm jump in co2 has done jack, but I do believe in being ecologicaly responsible
[18:58:37] <anonimasu> if you look at polar ice drill cores, they've got periods of extreme heat and extreme cold..
[18:58:43] <anonimasu> that comes and goes in periods
[18:58:57] <gezr> and right now, the growing global warming industry is wasting trillions of dollars for jack squat
[18:59:02] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[18:59:07] <Vq^> hard to say
[18:59:15] <fenn> trillions of dollar?
[18:59:24] <gezr> definately billions
[19:00:24] <anonimasu> I think it's bad that it strikes against industry here, and yet does accomplish nothing if you look at it in a global perspective
[19:00:33] <anonimasu> (the polution tax and stuff)
[19:00:53] <anonimasu> it's a cash cow for the goverment I belive
[19:01:18] <fenn> co2 considered as "pollution" does a lot of damage to the idea of real pollution
[19:01:24] <gezr> yeah
[19:01:32] <archivist> * archivist is fed up of feeding the cash cows
[19:01:48] <anonimasu> yep
[19:02:03] <anonimasu> fenn: we need to stop coal powerplants before we start haunting citizens..
[19:02:05] <gezr> thats true, I just think that all nations should put responsible plans in place thats all, innovation will take care of the rest
[19:02:06] <anonimasu> or find a sane alternative
[19:02:32] <anonimasu> instead of slowing down the economy compared to other countries
[19:02:41] <fenn> actually funding non-ITER fusion research would be a fine start
[19:02:52] <anonimasu> non-ITER?
[19:02:56] <anonimasu> china subventionates gas to stimulate growth right now
[19:03:02] <anonimasu> err the chinese goverment
[19:03:20] <fenn> ITER is the international tokamak. it's going nowhere, and has been for 30 years now, and soaks up all the funding for fusion research
[19:03:27] <anonimasu> ah
[19:03:36] <anonimasu> I heard they made a new laser
[19:03:44] <gezr> you talking about cern? or that shit hole in Illionis?
[19:03:45] <anonimasu> that would facilitate for fusion researc
[19:03:45] <fenn> meh
[19:03:52] <anonimasu> no, a more powerful laser
[19:04:07] <fenn> all the laser stuff takes too much input energy for the amount of fusion energy you get
[19:04:09] <anonimasu> higher power density..
[19:04:19] <fenn> like millions of times more input than output
[19:04:22] <gezr> 60% from a solar pannel would be a large enough jump in solar power to make it effective
[19:04:23] <anonimasu> I think they were going to use it to trigger fusion
[19:04:47] <fenn> flying windmills looks promising too
[19:04:55] <anonimasu> :)
[19:05:01] <fenn> jet stream never stops
[19:05:10] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[19:05:20] <anonimasu> until you take enough power out of it ^_^
[19:05:24] <gezr> wind sea and light power all seem like viable alternatives, if they just had a small imporovement
[19:05:27] <anonimasu> (cynic)
[19:05:32] <anonimasu> im just being a ass :)
[19:05:39] <fenn> the jet stream is caused by coriolis forces due to earth's rotation
[19:05:58] <fenn> i think..
[19:05:59] <skunkworks> well - didn't mean to start this :)
[19:06:04] <anonimasu> lol
[19:06:06] <gezr> na its good talk
[19:06:10] <anonimasu> it's a nice discussion
[19:06:22] <gezr> we all have to do are part is what it all boils down to
[19:06:25] <fenn> skunkworks: what's a "natural step" program?
[19:06:34] <gezr> but we shouldnt have to suffer at the hands of those who dont have to do squat
[19:06:42] <anonimasu> gezr: agreed
[19:07:04] <gezr> I cant say what my alternative source of power is, cause its mean
[19:07:06] <skunkworks> http://www.naturalstep.org/com/nyStart/
[19:08:05] <skunkworks> sorry - this is probably better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Natural_Step
[19:08:14] <skunkworks> mainly it is the 4 steps
[19:08:39] <skunkworks> System conditions of sustainability
[19:08:44] <skunkworks> In a sustainable society, nature is not subject to systematically increasing:
[19:08:52] <gezr> too many fat folks would have a fit with that
[19:08:59] <skunkworks> 1 concentrations of substances extracted from the Earth's crust;
[19:09:08] <skunkworks> 2 concentrations of substances produced by society
[19:09:20] <skunkworks> 3 degradation by physical means and, in that society
[19:09:27] <skunkworks> 4 people are not subject to conditions that systematically undermine their capacity to meet their needs.
[19:10:15] <gezr> we all just need to back off on being such consumers of junk
[19:10:19] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:10:43] <gezr> too many things made these days to just toss out
[19:10:55] <archivist> I wish for enough money to consume some junk
[19:11:13] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:11:52] <fenn> its too bad environmentalists hate space flight
[19:11:53] <gezr> I wish for the math ferry to visit me tonight and fill my head with how to do it all
[19:12:09] <anonimasu> haha
[19:12:11] <anonimasu> fenn: yeah
[19:12:15] <fenn> like "All the matter that will ever exist on earth is here now." is blatantly wrong
[19:12:24] <archivist> gezr, thats cheating
[19:12:30] <gezr> matter rains down on us each day
[19:12:34] <gezr> each day
[19:12:40] <pjm_> fenn, u watching the EVA on nasa tele?
[19:12:42] <gezr> oh another ton just fell
[19:12:43] <anonimasu> gezr: I pray that every night
[19:12:45] <anonimasu> ^_^
[19:12:56] <fenn> pjm_: nope, they're installing kibo?
[19:13:04] <pjm_> yeah EVA at the moment
[19:13:11] <pjm_> we've just been checking out the comms as usual ;-)
[19:13:16] <anonimasu> I think im going to consume something nice
[19:13:25] <anonimasu> like chips
[19:13:26] <gezr> I dont know how I feel about the space station
[19:13:43] <anonimasu> well, soon we might be beaming down power from space..
[19:13:53] <fenn> it's not getting enough funding to do anything useful
[19:13:54] <anonimasu> think misalignment ^^
[19:14:04] <gezr> im facinated by space, and all of that, but this up and down public system of space transportation is retarded
[19:14:12] <anonimasu> woops there goes country XXXXX
[19:14:41] <fenn> anonimasu: if you're talking about the solar power satellite proposal using beamed microwaves, they're perfectly safe
[19:14:56] <anonimasu> fenn: really?
[19:15:08] <ds2> soon?
[19:15:13] <fenn> trying to keep a beam focused over 35000 miles is hard enough..
[19:15:18] <ds2> we been beaming power down from space since the beginning
[19:15:19] <gezr> we could have a voulenteer right now on mars, who could have sent back this message "3 days of air left, yep there is lots of water here, having fun, looks sweet, tell mom I said high"
[19:15:23] <fenn> there's no way it would reach a high enough power density to do anything
[19:15:44] <fenn> gezr: what would that get you?
[19:16:04] <anonimasu> we still couldnt propel enough people to space to do anything useful
[19:16:12] <gezr> knowing wether or not water is on mars, first person on mars, wether we are explorers or not
[19:16:41] <fenn> phoenix is examining ice on mars right now, actually
[19:16:47] <anonimasu> ^_^
[19:16:54] <anonimasu> ice means there's water..
[19:17:06] <gezr> im not talking about a highly trained scientist, someone with terminal cancer or whatever, a one way trip, like any of the explorers of the past, they set out knowing they may not come back
[19:17:22] <anonimasu> hm, we should just plant lots of genetically modified crops that make air for us.
[19:17:25] <anonimasu> on mars
[19:18:08] <gezr> would you guys take a one way trip to mars?
[19:18:13] <gezr> or the moon for that matter?
[19:18:37] <anonimasu> uh, not knowing it'd kill me.
[19:18:51] <anonimasu> "no, not knowing it'd kill me."
[19:18:52] <gezr> well, say your faced with somethign thats going to kill you anyway
[19:18:55] <fenn> gotta develop space before you can live there
[19:19:15] <fenn> its not like taking a nice walkabout through the wilderness
[19:19:24] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:19:26] <gezr> the wilderness was never nice.
[19:19:36] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[19:19:42] <gezr> a 12yo was mauled by something out in the new mexico wilderness 2 weeks ago
[19:20:01] <gezr> a wild turkey broke into somoones home today
[19:20:02] <anonimasu> oh, there are about 1000's of kids dying without food ever day..
[19:20:05] <anonimasu> -_-
[19:20:20] <gezr> and money is wasted on buy co2 credits
[19:20:24] <gezr> buying
[19:20:35] <anonimasu> somehow I feel more for them then a random accident victim
[19:20:44] <anonimasu> shit happens.. people starving isnt a coicidence :/
[19:20:53] <anonimasu> gezr: yep
[19:21:32] <gezr> maybe the aliens will land some day and sort it all out
[19:21:41] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:21:49] <anonimasu> I'm more temped to belive in the math fairy
[19:21:53] <anonimasu> ^_^
[19:21:54] <gezr> same here
[19:22:20] <Len> ignorant people having children when they can't feed them need to be removed from the gene pool
[19:22:22] <gezr> but still, we have a lot of issues that man has created that pits us against ourselfs and until something drastic happens it wont be sorted out
[19:22:43] <fenn> Len: perhaps you'll think differently when the semi trucks stop running
[19:23:09] <anonimasu> but as we still keep helping countries like burma, where they dont want help.. and we still try to force help on them.. aliens might actually help us.
[19:23:19] <Len> don't count on it
[19:23:44] <gezr> if something drastic like an alien visit would definately fix a lot of things
[19:23:52] <anonimasu> haha yeah
[19:24:14] <Len> our country won't allow the semi trucks to quit running
[19:24:17] <gezr> war, religion, energy, you name it, lots of stuff will have a strange reaction
[19:24:59] <anonimasu> Len: if there's nothing to ship they will stop running..
[19:25:17] <gezr> no, wait on the trucks stopping, we all need parts
[19:25:26] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:25:29] <anonimasu> ^_^
[19:25:31] <anonimasu> anyways chips!
[19:25:47] <gezr> and truckers are the types of folks who will park their trucks to protest fuel prices and keep them running while they picket outside
[19:26:13] <gezr> not all, but that probably isnt far from the truth
[19:26:25] <gezr> its the way things have been for a long time
[19:26:48] <Len> everything will balance out - everything goes in cycles - and things are not as bleak as CNN makes it out to be
[19:27:11] <gezr> im not worried
[19:27:21] <gezr> Ijust want my bike to run, and the brians to do good in math
[19:28:15] <skunkworks> well - when the revolution comes... ;) (I am not that worred either. I think the higher gas prices here is great - hoping some good will come from it.)
[19:28:58] <anonimasu> define high gas prices
[19:29:10] <fenn> higher than the previous ten years
[19:29:12] <gezr> I have an agreement with you there, I imagine in my mind, a family who doesnt work, driving to mcdonalds in the morning for breakfast, then to burger king for lunch, then sonic for dinner each day sucking up my gas
[19:29:20] <skunkworks> well - not high compared to the uk
[19:29:33] <skunkworks> well - not high compared to the * eu
[19:29:44] <skunkworks> But I think it will go higher.
[19:30:13] <skunkworks> (definatly will not go down imho)
[19:30:21] <anonimasu> the gas price here is 1.9$ per liter
[19:30:21] <fenn> gezr: free electric cars for everyone! :)
[19:30:23] <gezr> the U.S. is still really rural, we have a truckign system, and a broken unused rail system, and too many folks who just blately consume to get their quarter pounder fix
[19:30:57] <archivist> £1.15 and up in the UK per litre
[19:31:08] <gezr> the eu is suffering from over allowing government to control everything
[19:31:16] <anonimasu> holy crap -_-
[19:31:18] <gezr> were headed that direction our selfs
[19:31:23] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[19:31:32] <anonimasu> gas is cheap tax is not
[19:31:44] <archivist> diesel is £1.30
[19:31:57] <gezr> archivist: how much of that is tax?
[19:32:03] <archivist> most
[19:32:17] <archivist> 80+%
[19:32:17] <gezr> see, were all counterproductive retards
[19:32:28] <Len> nothing is free - either pay tax and let the government buy your social services, or pay for those social services yourself
[19:32:38] <anonimasu> uh..
[19:32:38] <gezr> its like one of us, building a cnc machine, to mill hard steel, and making it out of wood
[19:33:15] <gezr> oh well, good talk you guys
[19:33:27] <fenn> * fenn pats everyone on the back
[19:33:28] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[19:33:30] <anonimasu> laters
[19:33:41] <anonimasu> gotta buy thoose chips
[19:33:42] <skunkworks> group hug.
[19:33:47] <gezr> chips?
[19:33:48] <Len> headin off to McDs r u?
[19:33:55] <gezr> anonimasu: you building a new controler board?
[19:37:07] <skunkworks> * skunkworks still wants to see how much steam he can creat from his car exhaust. (suppose I could calculate it)
[19:37:32] <archivist> exhaust is steam
[19:41:54] <ds2> steam increases the humidity of the surrounding air... imagine the horrors of mold growing everywhere!!! Oh NO!
[19:42:21] <ds2> mold is bad. we must ban water!
[19:42:39] <archivist> * archivist was playing steam engines yesterday
[19:42:47] <ds2> let's all vote to apply a tax on water before the entire planet is taken over by mold
[19:43:57] <archivist> vote here http://www.dhmo.org/
[19:44:37] <skunkworks> That is just silly talk.. everyone knows it is fungus
[19:44:52] <archivist> this Dihydrogen Monoxide is dangerous stuff
[19:47:31] <skunkworks> archivist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4u-Aj5Iwo0
[19:48:03] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/steam/
[19:48:24] <skunkworks> dad wants to make a flash boiler one of these days.
[19:49:22] <archivist> we steamed up for a TV news item yesterday
[19:49:34] <archivist> I have not seen it yet
[19:51:57] <archivist> responsive little bugger that elbow engine
[19:52:45] <skunkworks> :) still have to make the flywheel for it
[19:53:19] <archivist> we only run at 4 strokes a minute
[19:53:25] <archivist> ish
[19:53:45] <skunkworks> around how much HP?
[19:54:16] <archivist> 17 indicated HP iirc
[19:54:45] <archivist> 800 imperial gals per stroke (4 tons)
[19:57:19] <skunkworks> this is one of the pumping stations?
[19:59:25] <archivist> yes
[20:00:01] <anonimasu> mm
[20:00:05] <BigJohnT> ya load 16 tons and wadda you get...
[20:00:12] <archivist> just been checking TV compny website to see if they had put online, but no such luck
[20:01:41] <gezr> hmm, should I buy a mask to paint in my garrage with the door pretty much down?
[20:01:47] <gezr> im thinking I should
[20:02:09] <gezr> another day older and deeper in debt
[20:02:28] <BigJohnT> depends on how long you can hold your breath
[20:02:36] <gezr> preacher dont you call me cause I cant goooooooo, I owe my soul to the
[20:02:59] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:03:00] <BigJohnT> now your showing your age
[20:03:04] <anonimasu> depends alot on your paint
[20:03:07] <gezr> enamel
[20:03:12] <gezr> yucky black buger stuff
[20:03:19] <anonimasu> hm ok
[20:03:35] <gezr> if I leave the garrage open, the neighbors cars will get powdered
[20:03:50] <gezr> BigJohnT: just cause I know songs doesnt mean im that ancient
[20:04:02] <BigJohnT> LOL
[20:04:10] <anonimasu> lies
[20:04:21] <anonimasu> *mumbles about aliens*
[20:04:29] <gezr> going to have problems getting my music appreciation teacher to realize I listen to all sorts of music
[20:04:41] <gezr> hard core techno at the moment
[20:04:56] <anonimasu> I think it's your name that makes people think you are anvient :P
[20:05:03] <gezr> im 35
[20:05:05] <anonimasu> old gezr ;)
[20:05:09] <anonimasu> err ancient..
[20:05:09] <anonimasu> :p
[20:05:14] <gezr> about 14 years of that is pure machining experience
[20:05:30] <anonimasu> I could use like 13 of thoose
[20:05:45] <gezr> you guys never ask me much, so I dont say much
[20:05:53] <anonimasu> that's good to know
[20:06:02] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:06:02] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT goes back out to the shop to turn some more metal to plasma dust
[20:06:30] <gezr> I do not have the magical words like you guys have, but I can make chips
[20:06:53] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:07:04] <gezr> and im getting back into it as the hobby it should be for me, I hated doing it for others,
[20:07:17] <anonimasu> nice idea
[20:07:35] <gezr> you want me to turn this 1ton bar into what? and you buy stuff that over 20 feet is out 2" in the middle?
[20:07:57] <gezr> sure I can do that
[20:07:59] <anonimasu> :P
[20:08:12] <anonimasu> scary parts
[20:08:28] <anonimasu> heaviest I've machined is 400kg
[20:08:32] <anonimasu> on a mill
[20:08:54] <gezr> thats pretty big its self
[20:09:26] <gezr> to me now if its not over 5 feet long its small
[20:09:26] <anonimasu> big lump of iron :)
[20:09:37] <anonimasu> haha
[20:10:13] <gezr> just hated it, unapreciative <cencered>
[20:10:44] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:11:01] <gezr> smart folks in machine shops Im betting are the harder ones to keep around or happy
[20:14:19] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:16:37] <anonimasu> I hope I can find some time to cut some metal at work tomorrow
[20:16:38] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:18:28] <gezr> yeah, im going to buy a nice cheap respriator i guess
[20:18:55] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:18:57] <anonimasu> good call
[20:19:11] <gezr> I was able to put earlier coats on with lots of ventalation
[20:19:16] <Memphis> ok so what encoders should I buy?
[20:19:20] <Memphis> brand?
[20:19:23] <anonimasu> pulling black stuff out of your nose makes you wonder what else that sticks inside..
[20:19:23] <gezr> its windy outside, and im going to have to put on a thick coat
[20:19:38] <Memphis> Memphis is now known as Gamma-X
[20:19:49] <gezr> Gamma-X: I thought you already had encoders?
[20:20:08] <gezr> or did something on your mill last time we talked go horifically wrong?
[20:20:47] <Gamma-X> my glass scale thing just aint workin.
[20:21:18] <gezr> oh
[20:21:50] <Gamma-X> that and i cant get my pid to work with them at all!
[20:22:01] <Gamma-X> it hits the limit but then just keeps going and i have to estop
[20:22:09] <gezr> oh wow, I dont know
[20:22:12] <Gamma-X> oh and the table travels
[20:23:11] <gezr> thats good though
[20:23:16] <anonimasu> :/
[20:23:17] <gezr> SWPadnos: you listening?
[20:23:29] <gezr> I think I may have found some cheap abso encoders to get you
[20:26:06] <Gamma-X> me?
[20:26:17] <gezr> na some testing stuff Gamma-X
[20:26:54] <Gamma-X> ahh ok
[20:27:04] <gezr> well maybe not, at 300 a wack no way
[20:28:53] <gezr> im going to the store, gamma try usdigital.com I think is the name, they will have tons of info on encoders
[20:29:09] <Sweeper> hmmm. someone suggest something cool I could do with phone -> physcial computing
[20:32:18] <Gamma-X> sumtak encoder sound familiar to nayone?
[20:32:43] <Gamma-X> Sweeper, start ur car
[20:32:52] <Sweeper> :3
[20:34:37] <Gamma-X> i need sumtak lht encoders.
[20:45:57] <anonimasu> night
[20:46:53] <SWPadnos> gezr, I'm back now
[20:47:03] <SWPadnos> love to see some encoders :)
[20:58:00] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos, ever see sumtek lht encoders?
[20:58:57] <Gamma-X> sumtak*
[21:01:04] <Gamma-X> I need help wahhhhh!
[21:01:14] <renesis> halp him! halp him!
[21:01:39] <renesis> i would prob just try and make optical encoders =\
[21:01:49] <Gamma-X> make optical? lol
[21:02:00] <renesis> wai are you lol
[21:02:01] <Gamma-X> there encoders wich slip onto the shaft
[21:02:05] <tom1> you mean shumatek ? they have email support http://www.shumatech.com/products/qcc-100/index.htm
[21:02:06] <renesis> its leds and sensors
[21:02:11] <renesis> yeah like that
[21:02:16] <Gamma-X> no sumtak.
[21:02:46] <renesis> make something with a wheel with holes on a dshaft and get jiggy with 0603 leds or something
[21:03:05] <tom1> http://www.sumtak.co.jp/ all japanese
[21:03:41] <Gamma-X> renesis, that aint happening lol i want sumtin out of the box, i tried using linear encoders... didnt happen
[21:03:45] <Gamma-X> actualy glass scales lol
[21:04:05] <renesis> heh, i dunno i do alot of electronics doesnt seem super hard
[21:04:16] <renesis> and people have already done it im a biter =\
[21:04:44] <tom1> sumtak 26 Coromar Drive, Goleta CA 93117 TEL:+1-805-968-1525 FAX:+1-805-685-7965
[21:04:53] <tom1> the usa rep
[21:04:57] <Gamma-X> wow lol thanks.
[21:05:04] <renesis> at some point i wanna go nuts on my little desktop mill and make it closed loop with spindle speed control
[21:05:21] <tom1> the web site not ALL japanese ;)
[21:05:24] <renesis> hombrew encoder prob cheap/fun
[21:05:28] <Gamma-X> can i buy universal encoders?
[21:05:45] <tom1> universal soldiers
[21:06:06] <renesis> you just want non mechanical and enough resolution to make you feel warm on the inside
[21:06:20] <renesis> mechanical is for like, knobs
[21:06:29] <Gamma-X> renesis, any ideas for me?
[21:06:37] <tom1> gnite all
[21:06:40] <Gamma-X> like wich ones are cheap and i can get.
[21:06:55] <renesis> nope ive never shopped very hard for them
[21:07:08] <renesis> my shit is open loop and im happy, im kamikaze like that
[21:07:10] <SWPadnos> sumtak is an encoder manufacturer, shumatech is a DRO /DRO kit maker
[21:07:18] <renesis> kits?
[21:07:33] <renesis> oh like prob the module and all the accessories
[21:07:40] <SWPadnos> they used to sell just the bare board, and had links so you could order the parts from DK or Mouser
[21:07:53] <renesis> not like, circuit boards and parts and a useless coil of solder in a tube
[21:07:58] <renesis> oh no shit
[21:08:04] <renesis> thats cool!
[21:08:05] <SWPadnos> no, LED display - a DRO that you connect to your linear scales (slow chinese scales, like cheap digital calipers)
[21:08:13] <renesis> no i know
[21:08:29] <renesis> i just didnt think you meant kit like that, heheh
[21:08:33] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos, helo me out real quick please
[21:08:37] <Gamma-X> im lookin for encoders.
[21:08:40] <Gamma-X> i wanna buy them online now.
[21:08:42] <SWPadnos> they had kits or boards at one point, I think
[21:08:51] <ds2> usdigital?
[21:09:00] <renesis> i wanna do some 11seg led drivers soon
[21:09:11] <SWPadnos> yeah, US Digital is the easiest place to order online (that I know of)
[21:09:15] <Gamma-X> im on usdigitals website now b ut idk what im lookin for
[21:09:16] <SWPadnos> though I've never ordered from them
[21:09:18] <renesis> like, character displays
[21:09:20] <SWPadnos> encoders ;)
[21:09:29] <renesis> would make a neat DRO/status display
[21:09:32] <ds2> just run open loop and pray a lot ;)
[21:09:48] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos, wich ones! lool
[21:09:49] <SWPadnos> Gamma-X, you have a Mesa setup, right?
[21:09:56] <Gamma-X> yes sir
[21:10:10] <SWPadnos> ok, so count speed won't be an issue
[21:10:21] <SWPadnos> just pick a resolution you like, and remember to get them with index
[21:10:29] <Gamma-X> lol
[21:10:33] <SWPadnos> I don't know what shaft (if any) you have to attach them to
[21:10:36] <Gamma-X> no idea what im lookin for
[21:10:39] <Gamma-X> i know
[21:10:41] <SWPadnos> so you need tofigure that part out
[21:10:58] <SWPadnos> um - optical encoders, perhaps?
[21:11:11] <SWPadnos> not absolute, incremental optical encoders
[21:11:41] <Gamma-X> ok
[21:13:13] <Gamma-X> do they make slim ones?
[21:15:07] <Gamma-X> im still realy lost lol wow.
[21:22:01] <gezr> SWPadnos: thought that I found some cheap ones to try, but they wont work for us, I dont want to get you something to test with that, forces folks into one type of encoder
[21:27:40] <SWPadnos> I don't think there's a standard for absolute encoders
[21:27:56] <SWPadnos> there are some that have parallel output, and those are nearly trivial to use
[21:28:32] <SWPadnos> anything that's serial will have some command you need to send to read out position, and will likely have its own data format fro the readback
[21:31:31] <gezr> SWPadnos: well, these from usdigital had 1 line out pretty much, Ill have to do some digging,
[21:31:56] <Gamma-X> what u guys makin?
[21:32:21] <SWPadnos> nothing, just thinking about getting absolute encoder support into EMC
[21:32:29] <jepler> I'm back, what did I miss?
[21:32:57] <jepler> logger_emc: bookmark
[21:32:57] <jepler> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-06-03.txt
[21:33:22] <Gamma-X> whats the differance between the 2
[21:35:05] <SWPadnos> incremental (quadrature) encoders only tell you relative position, they don't know where they are
[21:35:33] <SWPadnos> absolute encoders know where they within a revolution, plus they keep a turns count
[21:35:49] <SWPadnos> many have battery backup, so you don't lose position when power is removed
[21:36:02] <SWPadnos> some linear scales are absolute - a little move and they know what the position is
[21:36:08] <SWPadnos> so you don't need to home
[21:36:09] <archivist> SWPadnos, i read an interesting article about an absolute encoder based on a ccd sensor and a psuedo random pattern can have redundancy and be able to handle dirt
[21:36:18] <SWPadnos> cool
[21:36:48] <Gamma-X> so u could home without a switch...
[21:37:05] <SWPadnos> the nice thing about many absolute encoders is that they look like incrementals when they're running
[21:37:05] <archivist> yes
[21:37:13] <SWPadnos> well, yes and no
[21:37:30] <SWPadnos> if you have absolute scales, then you don't need to home unless you replace/move the cales
[21:38:02] <SWPadnos> if you have rotary ones with turns counters, or something that can lose memory (say when you replace the battery), you need to be able to re-reference the absolute count to some known location on the machine
[21:38:19] <SWPadnos> just like normal homing, except you do it once every 5 years instead of once every time you turn the machine on
[21:53:18] <BigJohnT> crap now I have to go back to 04 and balance my check book, I've never done it since day one and I'm $89.96 off
[21:53:28] <BigJohnT> wonder where it came from?
[21:54:23] <skunkworks> 4 years of interest? ;)
[21:54:45] <BigJohnT> could be
[21:55:47] <BigJohnT> 45 bank statements to go :)
[21:58:52] <BigJohnT> glad there is not a lot of activity in that account
[21:59:33] <archivist> spare money? send to the needy
[22:00:08] <dmess> hi all
[22:00:25] <BigJohnT> It
[22:00:35] <BigJohnT> It's my small side business account
[22:00:47] <BigJohnT> not much to spare
[22:04:35] <BigJohnT> 2004 done I guess it is time to go back to making plasma dust from steel
[22:05:15] <alex_joni> hi & bye
[22:05:29] <skunkworks> Night alex
[22:05:35] <alex_joni> * alex_joni falls over after a 16h day :/
[22:05:52] <alex_joni> make that 17h
[22:11:48] <dmess> sleep well
[22:53:41] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing