#emc | Logs for 2008-05-24

[00:10:05] <toastydeath> ffffff
[00:21:03] <kohlsva> night ppl
[04:52:18] <klickrr> anyone alive, i'm trying to do the whole pyvcp thing with bar displays in my axis interface... i want to display pid.0.error as a bar on the right side, i have most things setup I believe, the bar shows up, granted it's not connected, but I did this line in a HAL file: linksp pid.0.error pyvcp.pid0error and axis/emc errored out on it, does that line not make any sense?
[04:53:22] <cradek> I bet those are both pins. use "net vcp-error pid.0.error pyvcp.pid0error"
[04:53:33] <cradek> that makes a signal called vcp-error that hooks those two pins together
[04:53:50] <klickrr> ok
[04:54:03] <cradek> lathe-pluto is my lathe configuration, it has a panel that shows pid output (not error) but you can use it as an example
[04:54:11] <klickrr> where is that at?
[04:54:18] <cradek> the sample configs
[04:54:25] <cradek> /etc/emc2/sample-configs/lathe-pluto
[04:57:48] <klickrr> based on what i've ready you would need a PYVCP in your DISPLAY section to do outptus like that, and that config doesn't show that... i'm pretty sure my emc puter is upto date but it doesn't show anything liek that
[04:58:44] <cradek> [DISPLAY]
[04:58:44] <cradek> PYVCP = vcp.xml
[04:59:05] <cradek> [HAL]
[04:59:07] <cradek> POSTGUI_HALFILE = postgui.hal
[04:59:11] <klickrr> that's not what's on my puter, and i just updated
[04:59:17] <cradek> these are the important bits
[04:59:24] <klickrr> right, i have those
[04:59:39] <cradek> my version is 2.2.4
[04:59:40] <klickrr> i'm just not connecting the pid.0.error properly to pyvcp.pid0error
[04:59:45] <fenn> tomp: it was built by ingersoll.. many more photos here: http://www.mel.nist.gov/photos/hexa.html
[05:00:09] <klickrr> i have 2.1.7
[05:00:12] <klickrr> hmm
[05:00:13] <cradek> oh
[05:00:18] <cradek> I bet you should update to 2.2
[05:00:32] <klickrr> apt-get update and apt-get upgrade do nothing
[05:00:39] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[05:00:54] <klickrr> ahh, ok
[05:01:22] <cradek> since some configs need changing when you switch to a new major version, we let the user decide when to update
[05:01:54] <cradek> bugfix updates (where the last number changes) come automatically and these never require config changes
[05:02:07] <klickrr> right
[05:02:22] <klickrr> ok, i'm gonna have to go downstairs to do this one i guess
[05:02:45] <cradek> ok, I'm off to bed, good luck
[05:03:03] <klickrr> thanks
[05:03:04] <klickrr> night
[05:03:06] <cradek> when you're updated, lathe-pluto should be a lot like what you want, so you have a nice example
[05:03:09] <cradek> welcome, goodnight
[05:09:28] <klickrr> what does linksp, linkpp, linkps mean?
[05:10:01] <klickrr> i searched the wiki, halcmd help doesn't show anything, just trying to find info on what each one implies
[05:16:57] <fenn> try 'man halcmd'
[05:17:36] <fenn> docs are here also: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/
[05:22:24] <fenn> found a vrml model of the ingersoll hexapod on archive.org: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/nist_hexapod.png
[05:26:39] <K`zan_emc> Hi Folks, I think my Z axis is a little slow in responding and I am trying to figure out how to compensate for that. Retracts using G00 don't seem to be fast enough to clear the material before it gets to the next extend. Not sure where that is effected.
[05:28:32] <K`zan_emc> Looking at the Basic Machine Information dialog in stepconf and there is a "Direction Hold" and a "Direction Setup" and both are set to 20uS (20,000 nS). Is that what I am looking for. Only seems critical on the Z-Axis.
[05:30:20] <fenn> look at the backplot - is it rounding the corner too much?
[05:30:46] <K`zan_emc> Lemme blow it up and look, this one is just engraving text.
[05:31:25] <K`zan_emc> GOnna have to run it again, cleared it.
[05:34:15] <K`zan_emc> Some, but it doesn't appear significant. When I do boxes it is noticible though. Was going to ask about that.
[05:34:46] <K`zan_emc> On the text stuff it is VERY close.
[05:37:45] <K`zan_emc> May be a probleem with the Z axis having problems responding to 0.01" movements. Not sure.
[05:37:59] <K`zan_emc> Bloody hard to eyeball.
[05:38:48] <toastydeath> indicator?
[05:39:39] <K`zan_emc> Yes, but I don't think it will fit into a 1/8" chuck :-/.
[05:40:12] <K`zan_emc> And nothing ferris to stick the mag block on.
[05:40:31] <K`zan_emc> Hummm
[06:11:22] <K`zan_emc> Got an indicator in there as best I can and YES, there is a problem with the Z.
[06:14:23] <fenn> if you're engraving, the safety height should be more than 0.01"
[06:18:04] <K`zan_emc> Commanding a -0.100 movement I get 0.082 the first move from 0/home and after that it is ... working...
[06:18:48] <K`zan_emc> Yes, agree. Still trying to figure out how to fix what xfig exports as gcode to get what clearance I want.
[06:19:32] <K`zan_emc> Setting a 1/8" block under the tool and hitting "Touch Off" and entering 0.125 for that.
[06:20:18] <K`zan_emc> Then I attempt to move z to -0.01 which also seem to be a lot more than 0.01.
[06:20:38] <K`zan_emc> I'm starting to think that the Z axis methodology is hosed.
[06:22:01] <fenn> check for backlash
[06:22:06] <fenn> er, rather, measure the backlash
[06:22:36] <fenn> not sure what you mean by methodology
[06:22:39] <K`zan_emc> That might be a problem, maybe, possibly I think.
[06:23:01] <K`zan_emc> backlash... How to measure...
[06:23:39] <K`zan_emc> move the axis a given value and then same value back to see what the indicator says at the end of the movements?
[06:24:51] <K`zan_emc> Moving down .3 and back leaves the indicator at -.00525 - this time.
[06:25:45] <K`zan_emc> +.001 this time
[06:32:05] <K`zan_emc> May have found the problem... Rubber tube coupler is too long between the stepper and 1/4-20 leadscrew so the stepper gets to turn a fair bit before the lead screw starts moving. Got it MUCH shorter on the X and Y and no noticible problems there.
[06:36:31] <fenn> the thrust load goes through the rubber tube? well duh
[06:37:29] <fenn> you dont even need a rubber coupler if the stepper is providing the thrust bearing
[06:37:33] <K`zan_emc> Seems to work well enough for X and Y...
[06:38:02] <K`zan_emc> With a solid coupling allignment is a PROBLEM leading to wobble.
[06:38:25] <K`zan_emc> Ok, cut it down to abs minimal, lets sett if it makes a difference.
[06:42:44] <pjm> good morning
[06:45:52] <K`zan_emc> Morning pjm
[06:46:16] <K`zan_emc> First move seems to be alway screwed up subsequent moves seem to be at least on the same planet.
[06:46:41] <K`zan_emc> command 0.01 and get 0.001, maybe. Second move gets to 0.02 pretty close.
[06:46:53] <K`zan_emc> I R cornfuzed.
[06:47:14] <K`zan_emc> Shortening up the length of the coupler helped some but the initial move is always off by a lot.
[06:50:27] <K`zan_emc> Not enough stepper?!?! I can't imagine that.
[06:55:30] <K`zan_emc> Well, at least it appears to be consistant. Command 0.01 and get 0.001 first and after that much closer moves to the 0.01.
[06:55:54] <K`zan_emc> Dunno, will play with it more tomorrow. Ahm beat.
[06:56:03] <K`zan_emc> But it has been fun/educational :).
[06:58:56] <K`zan_emc> Night all.
[08:29:43] <hasta2003> alex_joni:hi..
[08:33:56] <alex_joni> hi
[08:34:16] <hasta2003> may I ask to you some questions? emc-de?
[08:43:31] <alex_joni> sure
[14:13:59] <anonimasu> hello
[15:07:17] <acemi_> acemi_ is now known as acemi
[15:10:13] <JymmmEMC> Been seeing commercials on TV for "Truck bed slides". Thinking that may not be a bad idea for the back of my SUV; then add a 6" tall cover to it, so it's like really long drawers.
[15:12:27] <JymmmEMC> Looked at pricing, $700 (ouch). Don't have a welder, and not sure what kind of slide I could use for such a thing. I have ballbearing rack mount server slides, but doubt it'll hold that kinda weight.
[15:13:22] <JymmmEMC> Just need 4 feet slide, any ideas?
[15:14:06] <JymmmEMC> maybe 3 foot, but just wouldn't extend all the way.
[15:14:17] <SWPadnos> so you can have a plywood (or something) base that slides in and out easily?
[15:14:28] <JymmmEMC> yeah, exactly
[15:15:12] <JymmmEMC> So think 18" wide x 6" tall x 48" deep drawers - two of them side-by-side
[15:15:22] <rayh> Channel iron with rollers
[15:15:28] <SWPadnos> do you want drawers or jus a moveable base?
[15:15:35] <SWPadnos> just
[15:16:00] <SWPadnos> if you put drawers in, you won't be able to carry the router around :)
[15:16:17] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: They could move independantly if need be, Just planning on putting those plastic "under bed storage" containers on them.
[15:16:59] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: LOL, no it'll be easily removable. I'm going to re-use the same mounting brackets as the third-row-seat used.
[15:17:22] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You never saw the third-row-seat, as I sold it years ago.
[15:17:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:17:37] <SWPadnos> they're useless - take up too much cargo space :)
[15:17:50] <JymmmEMC> That's why I sold the damn thing.
[15:17:50] <SWPadnos> hey - I have a bird question for you
[15:17:58] <JymmmEMC> Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
[15:18:21] <SWPadnos> a Robin (I think) decided that the perfect place for a nest is on top of our coiled garden hose, right next to the front door
[15:19:01] <JymmmEMC> are there eggs in it?
[15:19:03] <anonimasu> hehe
[15:19:06] <SWPadnos> they haven't laid any eggs yet, but we're thinking that it could be bad if they do - they'd either get aggressive toward anyone who comes to the front door (not always a bad thing), or abandon any eggs/chicks later
[15:19:08] <SWPadnos> not yet
[15:19:31] <SWPadnos> so we're wondering how we can move it without them deciding it's a bad place to live
[15:19:39] <SWPadnos> there are a few trees around that we can put it in
[15:22:24] <lerman> http://www.ovisonline.com/store/drawer_slide.asp?PAGE=4
[15:22:48] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: It's strange that a nest would be made at ground level. Birds have a tendency to be very leary of ANYTHING at ground level. If you move it, is there a way that they can find where you move it to? If you put it in a tree, can it be made secure so it doens't fall down? The only other thign I can think of is that some baby birds have a tendancy to fall out of the next, so parents of a first clutch are not aware of that.
[15:23:04] <SWPadnos> it's coiled on a hose holder, so about 3' above ground level
[15:23:10] <lerman> 48 inch 500 lb. Full extension heavy duty slide. $186.83
[15:23:17] <SWPadnos> there's a bush in front of it, so it seems fairly protected
[15:24:03] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: If yoy can place it somewhere if a baby falls out, they can still roll it back into the nest that would be ideal.
[15:24:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[15:24:36] <kirk_wallace> I would think the cats would be able to get to the nest.
[15:24:39] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Use laytex gloves, as they won't leave any human scent on the nest. for the babies to become familure with.
[15:24:54] <SWPadnos> ok - that's the kind of thing I was wondering about :)
[15:25:46] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: The whole cat thing that kirk_wallace mentioned is something to consider too. Also, maybe you want to toss up a birdy cam so you can watch the live action =)
[15:25:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:26:04] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You have racoons iirc, they like eggs as well.
[15:26:09] <SWPadnos> I thought about putting a mirror on the house so we can watch from the living room
[15:26:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm. no raccoons, rabbits and deer though
[15:26:27] <SWPadnos> maybe a bear from time to time
[15:26:41] <jmkasunich> robins tend to build nests on "shelfy" things
[15:26:50] <jmkasunich> lamps mounted on walls, etc
[15:26:58] <jmkasunich> (hose holder qualifies)
[15:27:14] <SWPadnos> I'm not positive it's a robin, but I think I did see a red brerast at some point
[15:27:22] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Oh hey... If you build/buy a nesting box, you could hang it under the rafters somewhere so it's off the ground, no babies can roll out, and safe from prediters. They are cheap from any decent pet store
[15:27:30] <kirk_wallace> I have chicks in my hanger doors that fall out on occasion. I just get the ladder out and put them back, nothing special, no problems so far.
[15:27:39] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Just made out of 1/4" plywood
[15:28:36] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure it's a problem where they are - I just wouldn't want them to get spooked by some visitor and abandon the nest
[15:28:54] <SWPadnos> the garden hose from the back can stretch around to the front of the house :)
[15:29:06] <dmess> my bernese mountain dog found 1 that had fallen out last spring... the 2 adults were dive bombing at her and screaching up a racket
[15:29:36] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://www.noble.org/Ag/Wildlife/EBluebirdNestBoxes/bluebirdNestImages/box-plansLG.gif
[15:29:43] <SWPadnos> since visitors are rare (and usually salespeople or relgious nuts), having some dive-bombing going on wouldn't be a bad thing
[15:29:49] <jmkasunich> heh
[15:29:52] <jmkasunich> door guards
[15:29:56] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:30:19] <dmess> were they could get very protective of the area
[15:30:21] <SWPadnos> we can warn friends to open the screen door quickly (which turns into a wall between the stoop and the nest)
[15:30:47] <jmkasunich> or just have friends use a different door
[15:30:57] <jmkasunich> my front door almost never gets used
[15:30:59] <SWPadnos> round da back way
[15:31:40] <dmess> put up a sign... warning airial survailence in progress
[15:32:16] <JymmmEMC> No soliciting - Warning Arial Attack
[15:32:44] <kirk_wallace> jmkasunich: I worked on the Hobart a bit. I don't know what I did, if anything, but the welding current is better.
[15:33:11] <jmkasunich> might have been some dirty connectors or something, and you jostled them enough to improve contact
[15:33:32] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Be warned, many babies don't survive, especially if it's a first clutch.
[15:33:52] <SWPadnos> oh, that's nature for you
[15:34:07] <dmess> yes mom is still too stupid to deal with them properly
[15:34:44] <SWPadnos> I think they had a nest in the big lilac (or whatever) bush that's in front of the hose before
[15:34:56] <SWPadnos> I remember some chicks in there a few years ago
[15:35:00] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, it can be very disappointing/depressing to watch the progress then see the negative results.
[15:35:11] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:35:50] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Just FYI... after the baby hatches, they eat the egg shells - for the calcium it provides.
[15:36:19] <SWPadnos> yummy
[15:36:20] <kirk_wallace> I went through everything mechanical the day before, cleaned relay points, jiggled connections. The foot peddle dosn't seem to work properly, so I need to look at that.
[15:36:22] <SWPadnos> I just drink mild
[15:36:27] <SWPadnos> err - milk
[15:37:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, laying eggs depletes a LOT of calcium from the mom - big time. If it's not replenished, a birds body will begin using it's own bones for the calcium.
[15:38:27] <SWPadnos> which is not good
[15:38:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You could toss out there a $2 calcium block or a "cuttle bone" from any pet store if you want.
[15:39:16] <dmess> or just your egg shells
[15:39:43] <JymmmEMC> dmess: Human scent is the only thing I'd be conserned with.
[15:39:44] <SWPadnos> do you think it's necessary to move the nest? I don't want to unless it'll help the birds
[15:40:06] <SWPadnos> I hadn't remembered the nest in the bush until now - I bet they'll be OK (unless we decide to use that hose)
[15:40:19] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: If it's not in direct path, and at least partially covered, it should be ok.
[15:40:21] <dmess> crush them up and sprinkle on the ground....
[15:40:47] <kirk_wallace> I searched for the SCR part number IR78-5199 and found nothing, even at irf.com. It seems they don't make SCR's anymore. Oh and they _are_ three terminal devices. I didn't look at the wiring close enough the first time.
[15:41:14] <JymmmEMC> dmess: that might work, hanging a cuttle bone is easier and less messy too =)
[15:41:47] <dmess> im very simplistic... ; )
[15:41:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: If you build that bitd hutch I gave you plans for, they will eventually use it.
[15:42:08] <JymmmEMC> dmess: but that takes forethought and effort =)
[15:42:28] <dmess> but im always thinkin' anyway...
[15:42:54] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuttlebone
[15:43:59] <SWPadnos> mmmm. cuttlebone toothpaste
[15:44:08] <JymmmEMC> and antacid =)
[15:46:13] <kirk_wallace> I put the SCR's back in and then looked at the schematic and realized that the Hot Start by-passed most of the current setting circuitry going to the Gater. When I turned up the Hot Start my current came back up... it seems even for the non-Hot Start modes.
[15:46:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: If you get one, drill a 1/8" hole about 1/3rd down and hang it somewhere with a piece of 18ga or bigger wire.
[15:47:06] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: For some silly reason they ALWAYS chew around the hole and it falls down. doh!
[15:47:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:47:17] <SWPadnos> fly, be free!
[15:50:03] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you can get calcium blocks in the reptile section too
[15:50:43] <dmess> do you keep any bird JymmmEMC??
[15:50:56] <JymmmEMC> dmess: Never touch the things =)
[15:51:08] <SWPadnos> heh. I don't want to be their mother, I just don't want them to run off and abandon their chicks because we used the door one too many times :)
[15:51:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: do i?
[15:51:19] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I'd say it's the other way around
[15:51:21] <SWPadnos> :)
[15:51:32] <JymmmEMC> dmess: 18 tiels and 2 parrots
[15:51:46] <dmess> wow...
[15:51:50] <JymmmEMC> lol
[15:51:51] <SWPadnos> yeah, wow :)
[15:52:13] <JymmmEMC> and they ALL have their own personalities too
[15:52:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:52:31] <SWPadnos> some like to ride on your shoulder. others like to bite your toes
[15:52:37] <dmess> i have had a mating pair of cockatiels... they are nasty come breeding time
[15:52:44] <SWPadnos> others just yell at you from across the room
[15:53:01] <SWPadnos> (me anyway - I'm not mommy or daddy :) )
[15:53:08] <dmess> must be a hell of an orchastra in the morning
[15:54:12] <JymmmEMC> dmess: it can be kinda cool.... one is a lil slow (mentally) we suspect some nerve damage, but he's the sweetest lil thing. will ALWAYS sing to you if you give him some attention.
[15:54:24] <dmess> what kind of parrots have you got?
[15:54:35] <JymmmEMC> Sun Conures
[15:54:48] <dmess> they are cute...
[15:55:19] <dmess> my buddy's used to sleep with the dog... all cuddled up
[15:55:20] <JymmmEMC> You tell me.... http://images.google.com/images?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&hs=p5v&q=sun%20conures&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
[15:57:04] <dmess> i'd love to have birds again but with 2 cats 2 dogs and 2 turtles... + 3 kids... i'd say i have enuf mouths to feed...
[15:57:17] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: *IF* I'm able to get the ser/par/etc cables for the artigo, are you interested?
[15:57:29] <JymmmEMC> dmess: Oh that's easy, just get rid of the kids.
[15:57:42] <dmess> working on it...
[15:57:44] <JymmmEMC> dmess: and the wife too, if she pisses you iff ;)
[15:57:49] <JymmmEMC> off
[15:58:18] <dmess> laready done that... we're just co-habitating for convenience right now
[15:58:28] <JymmmEMC> dmess: Ah gotcha.
[15:59:48] <anonimasu> :/
[15:59:52] <JymmmEMC> lerman: I think my slides are like that. I have a zillion of them
[16:00:39] <JymmmEMC> I'm not sure if I want side or bottom slides though.
[16:21:23] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, sure, I'll take a set
[16:22:38] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I think they are almost as much as the whole damn thing, but let me make some calls and see what I can find. The latency on the artigo is > 100,000 nS so may not be useful for cnc stuff
[16:23:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:23:21] <SWPadnos> probably not :)
[17:17:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I'm thinking about putting the artigo in the car and connecting it to a wireless router =)
[17:18:10] <SWPadnos> hmmm. interesting
[17:19:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: My gps only records up to 10K waypoints internally. If I connect it to serial port I can record directly to the PC
[17:19:49] <SWPadnos> there are little cellular modems you can get that also have GPS built in
[17:20:03] <SWPadnos> I on't recall how they connect though - probably serial
[17:20:08] <SWPadnos> or USB->serial
[17:21:10] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Mine has both serial and USB and it's portable (battery operated) so I can hick, get back to the care, and autodownload data from gps. When I get within range of home wifi, have it rsync auto magically
[17:21:29] <SWPadnos> until you turn the auto off :)
[17:22:07] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I can also use it as in-car mp3 player too
[17:22:11] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:22:19] <SWPadnos> or video even, for the passengers
[17:22:40] <JymmmEMC> and have it sync the library in the car. remove the in-dash radio and toss in a touch screen
[17:22:45] <JymmmEMC> screw the passengers
[17:22:55] <SWPadnos> whatever she wants :)
[17:23:34] <JymmmEMC> Well, it can dbl as in-dash gps too, I do have a magmount usb gps I could use as well - semi-perm mount it
[17:24:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I just need outdoor antennas for the wifi router
[17:24:19] <JymmmEMC> omni directional
[17:24:24] <SWPadnos> the antenna in the truck is likely to be the bigger problem
[17:24:38] <JymmmEMC> roof rack mount them
[17:24:39] <SWPadnos> you don't need omni - you can point it at the driveway
[17:24:53] <JymmmEMC> No, no, I want to wardrive too
[17:25:18] <SWPadnos> oh - omni for the truck of course, but not for the house (I thought you were taking about the house wifi)
[17:25:38] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Nah, it has enough range to hit the driveway easily
[17:26:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: The bitch will be getting WPA2 Enterprise setup.
[17:30:48] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I'd like to be able to be near an open hotspot and have it make a connection whenever possible.
[17:30:58] <SWPadnos> sure
[17:31:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Heh, a car LAN
[17:32:11] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: ever seen network stumbler?
[17:32:12] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Think I'll need IPv6 for all the devices in the car???????
[17:32:44] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:32:52] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: I've heard of it. but I want to use a linksys router running OpenWRT.
[17:33:19] <alex_joni> sounds nice
[17:33:46] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: There is only eth and 4 usb ports on this pico board. Plus it can dbl as firewall too.
[17:33:56] <JymmmEMC> the linksys that is
[17:34:06] <JymmmEMC> for the firewall
[17:34:14] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: google artigo
[17:34:35] <alex_joni> did already
[17:34:40] <JymmmEMC> k
[17:34:45] <alex_joni> looks nice
[17:35:12] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: It's not too shabby, SWPadnos was kind of to get me one comp'ed.
[17:35:23] <JymmmEMC> s/of/enough/
[17:35:49] <alex_joni> a bit pricey in europe
[17:35:52] <alex_joni> ~ 450$
[17:36:10] <alex_joni> http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=4;GROUP=EG43;GROUPID=813;ARTICLE=78566;START=0;SORT=artnr;OFFSET=16;SID=32Xf7HoawQASAAAHo0cF859697993f66651daeb80dd33366dc1f6
[17:36:44] <JymmmEMC> This one has an 80GB hdd, adn I maxed out the ram to 1GB.
[17:38:14] <Roguish> hey all. anyone know much about vmware?
[17:39:05] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: Never touch the stuff, nope, never. No I don't have 4 XP VM images on my machine running concurrently. No I don't have two CentOS images on it either.
[17:40:06] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: No, I do not plan on running VMWare server on my colo box. No went don't have 14 VM's running a a quad dual core system at work.
[17:40:11] <Roguish> ha, ok. i have a program that must run xp or vista. but i want to migrate away from ms.
[17:40:40] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: pay the $80 for a license. or use VMWare server - it's free
[17:40:45] <Roguish> so, linux as host with vmware server?
[17:40:57] <Roguish> xp as a guest os?
[17:41:03] <JymmmEMC> sure
[17:41:16] <JymmmEMC> dont try running it on a POS box though.
[17:41:31] <Roguish> is the 'host' a usable os, or just a host.
[17:41:45] <Roguish> do i have to add another linux as a 2nd guest?
[17:41:59] <alex_joni> useable os
[17:42:09] <JymmmEMC> The host runs as normal, a VM runs inside the host , just like any other applicatin.
[17:42:28] <alex_joni> you don't need to have 2 if you don't need them, and you don't need to have linux as a second guest if you don't want it
[17:43:19] <Roguish> ok, i just wasn't sure wether the host was usable or not.
[17:43:32] <Roguish> i just picked up a new hd so i'll give it a try.
[17:43:45] <alex_joni> sure it is..
[17:43:52] <alex_joni> you only run the guest when you want to..
[17:43:56] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: An XP VM runs like any application you would norammaly run
[17:44:21] <Roguish> i'm hoping i can 'image' my current xp and somehow install it as the guest.
[17:45:14] <alex_joni> Roguish: usually you start with a fresh install
[17:45:26] <alex_joni> and for XP you'll need a valid license
[17:45:39] <alex_joni> (an OEM license is not applicable to a VM guest afaik)
[17:45:45] <Roguish> yeah, probably. got the valid xp.
[17:45:49] <alex_joni> (although we won't tell :)
[17:46:47] <Roguish> thanks. i see i have a couple of evening fiddle farting around, and cursing all computers.
[18:23:03] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: You'll have to create your own XP install/image. BUT... Once you have, you can save the (3GB) file as reuse it on as many VM's as you like.
[18:24:03] <Roguish> ok, i have been doing a little reading. vmware, virtual pc, or virtual box?
[18:24:31] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: So, be sure to burn it as soon as you've created it, that way to can make changes as often as you like wihtout having to reinstall it again.
[18:25:02] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: try vmserver it's free
[18:25:20] <Roguish> ok, that's a good idea. hate full installs.
[18:25:37] <JymmmEMC> No, i'ts a full install, just different product
[18:25:44] <Roguish> vmserver on a linux host?
[18:26:04] <JymmmEMC> we have it on CentOS
[18:26:09] <Roguish> vmserver on ubuntu server?
[18:26:25] <SWPadnos> you can also download vmware on trial to create VMs, then use the free vmware player to use them
[18:26:28] <JymmmEMC> I dont trust debian anymore
[18:26:47] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: no trial needed, vmserver is free
[18:26:55] <SWPadnos> can that one create VMs?
[18:27:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Sure, we have 14 VM's running on it
[18:27:30] <Roguish> what's vmworkstation for?
[18:27:35] <SWPadnos> cool. maybe I'll ge t XP64 running so I can use Altium on my big Linux box
[18:27:39] <JymmmEMC> well more like 8 on one box and 6 on the other
[18:28:00] <SWPadnos> ok. time to pump up the tires and go out for a bike ride. bbl
[18:28:08] <JymmmEMC> though some of them are ldap-1 and ldap-2, etc.
[18:28:17] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: yeah you fatass
[18:28:19] <Roguish> just finished my 30 miles....
[18:28:23] <SWPadnos> :P
[18:28:42] <JymmmEMC> I gotta tkae apart half my dash today to replace the cigar socket
[18:28:48] <Roguish> got a horrible head cold, so i only did half the usual ride.
[18:29:00] <JymmmEMC> gonna see if I can add more to the rear too =)
[18:29:11] <SWPadnos> if anyone knows where to ren recumbents in Europe, I'd appreciate the info
[18:29:13] <SWPadnos> rent
[18:34:59] <K`zan> Morning all
[18:45:02] <dmess> just took the dog for a walk thru an old hawking spot found 3 red-tails on their nests pretty steady.. means there's a clutch inside... i've been meaning to steal 1 for years..
[18:47:12] <tomp2> SWPadnos: there's rail-bike rentals thru England and Europe. not a lot, but fun ( runs on old railroads, usually recumbant)
[18:47:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[18:48:18] <tomp2> http://members.aol.com/RAILBIKES/ nice pic
[18:48:42] <dmess> might be fun... we have an area of ontaio where the rails FIRST went in that has had all the rails lifted.. and its now a bike path that travels the province...
[18:49:25] <dmess> WILD
[18:50:58] <K`zan> No idea what to do about the z axis problem here - contemplating it. Perhaps this methodology just isn't going to work out...
[18:51:26] <dmess> whats the problem K'zan
[18:51:28] <anonimasu> K`zan: what problem`?
[18:52:23] <K`zan> Movement is flakey. First command a 0.01" movement and you get 0.001 more or less. Move again and it mostly moves around as far as it should.
[18:52:50] <anonimasu> K`zan: is it only for Z?
[18:53:03] <K`zan> Cut the rubber hose coupler down to as short as it could be and that helped some (no twist).
[18:53:17] <dmess> ANYTHING CAN WORK if you throw enuf $$ and manhours to it look at the US v22-osprey... only 200 billion dollars to get it where it is
[18:53:18] <anonimasu> and if it is are you 102% sure it's just Z?
[18:53:21] <K`zan> anonimasu: It seems to be, but I did the x and y with a ruler under a point.
[18:53:37] <anonimasu> got a dial gauge?
[18:53:44] <K`zan> ball point pen point - not real good for resolving 0.01 increments.
[18:53:50] <K`zan> Yes, that is where I got the numbers.
[18:54:00] <K`zan> 0-1" 0.001 marks
[18:54:06] <anonimasu> hm, that's a odd phenomena
[18:54:31] <dmess> do do to do do
[18:54:48] <anonimasu> dmess: I like the osprey actually
[18:54:57] <K`zan> I have misgivings about the methodolgy, sure. BUT others seem to be using it with reasonable success. Just dunno.
[18:55:16] <anonimasu> K`zan: methodolgy?
[18:55:16] <tomp2> sure the Z motor turns as much 1st time as 2nd time? ( is error in driven element or driver element)
[18:55:20] <K`zan> This project was supposed to be educational and it is certainly that.
[18:55:40] <anonimasu> K`zan: try to swap the drive for the Z axis..
[18:55:46] <anonimasu> with another axis and see if it repeats
[18:55:55] <anonimasu> or swap the driver/motor pair..
[18:56:01] <K`zan> anonimasu: Method of construction for the Z axis platform: http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/MyMachineShop/PipeDreamMill/PDM-V2/
[18:56:21] <anonimasu> ah :)
[18:56:23] <K`zan> I'm on V3 or 4 now, minor mods...
[18:57:03] <K`zan> extra compression bearing and a second set of retainer bearings.
[18:57:36] <K`zan> (the ones that keep the platform for the spindle flat to the rest.
[18:57:39] <K`zan> )
[18:58:09] <dmess> Anon... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-84 we handed them a better plane.. they chose NOT to buy it.. NOT MADE HERE factor
[18:58:50] <anonimasu> dmess: I still like the osprey :p
[18:59:06] <K`zan> Me too, funny how people seem to expect perfection out the door.
[18:59:20] <tomp2> after making sure the motor turns the same anmt 1st & second time, see if the end of screw turns same amount as motor ( you're direct coupled, so >should< be same. the fact that you dont get what you expect means you have to looks at 'shoulda's' :)
[18:59:26] <anonimasu> dmess: but, I think the development budget is insane :)
[18:59:33] <tomp2> amount
[18:59:58] <K`zan> If we had that attitude here in a couple centuries ago, we'd still be on the east side of the mississippi river, assuming we got that far.
[19:00:24] <K`zan> tomp2: Will look at that today, not sure how easy it will be to tell, but we'll look at it.
[19:00:27] <anonimasu> K`zan: -_-
[19:00:30] <tomp2> 'comin down from the trees was a bad idea' Douglas Adams
[19:00:55] <anonimasu> K`zan: spending several 10's billions on developing a aircraft to fight some retarded war us themselves invented..
[19:00:56] <K`zan> LOL, yep if we were all dead then there would be no problems anywhere. Heh...
[19:01:14] <K`zan> anonimasu: righteo....
[19:01:29] <dmess> it up to 200 billion if you know the inside story..
[19:01:30] <anonimasu> I mean holy shit.. was it really nescessary to spend more cash on one airplane then keeping kids educated?
[19:01:40] <K`zan> I'm all for peace, problem is the enemy isn't.
[19:02:04] <K`zan> With the educational system in this country, you are FAR better off with the airplane :-(.
[19:02:07] <dmess> there was no lose of life in the canadian fersion that flew til 1974..
[19:02:13] <dmess> version
[19:02:30] <K`zan> Errand, brb
[19:02:37] <K`zan> or bbiab :-)
[19:02:58] <dmess> flew ofer 700 flights.. some off US carriers...
[19:03:02] <anonimasu> K`zan: denfine "the enemy"..
[19:03:03] <dmess> over
[19:04:06] <dmess> canada started developent on it in 1957...
[19:04:09] <jmkasunich> dmess: where do you get $200 bill?
[19:04:22] <anonimasu> K`zan: maybe it would have been better with all thoose billions spent on it..
[19:04:23] <jmkasunich> wikipedia says "As of 2007, the Osprey program had spent $20 billion over 25 years of development, and will require another $35 billion from the Pentagon before the program is completed"
[19:04:38] <jmkasunich> that is 55 billion (and gets you 458 planes, not just R&D)
[19:04:53] <dmess> from some insiders at work... we make ALL the landing gear systems for these beasts...
[19:05:07] <anonimasu> 50 billion is what it says
[19:05:22] <anonimasu> + 70 million per plane :p
[19:05:29] <dmess> b'shit...
[19:05:43] <anonimasu> nice round numbers
[19:06:33] <dmess> yes.. with 1 .50 cal out the back...
[19:06:43] <jmkasunich> .30 cal
[19:06:54] <anonimasu> :p
[19:07:03] <dmess> na... im prety sure its a .50 cal
[19:07:19] <jmkasunich> if you have a source, you should correct the wikipedia article then
[19:08:20] <dmess> the canadian 1 was fitted with the A10's cannon for a promotional film.... ripped up an old dodge at 3000 rounds per minute perfectly stable..
[19:09:58] <anonimasu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10 <- something I like :p
[19:10:09] <dmess> another AVRO Arrow.... some of the same ppl worked on both.. slightly ahead of its time.. ppl weren ready for it
[19:10:28] <anonimasu> I like the look of it :)
[19:10:51] <dmess> engine Jockey....in the middle... with a GUN
[19:11:14] <anonimasu> ^_^
[19:11:59] <dmess> but what if you could hover??? and pick and pummel...
[19:12:43] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:13:11] <dmess> where to post pics??
[19:13:51] <anonimasu> www.imagebin.org
[19:17:21] <dmess> http://imagebin.org/18767
[19:17:42] <dmess> http://imagebin.org/18766
[19:18:13] <dmess> check out this a/c
[19:18:18] <anonimasu> :D
[19:18:19] <anonimasu> cool
[19:19:06] <dmess> i have an SAE paper validating the benefits of tilt wing over tilt rotor too... ;)
[19:19:55] <dmess> there is 1 in manitoba that has never been flown or fully assembed for that matter...
[19:21:29] <anonimasu> hm
[19:22:00] <anonimasu> tilt rotor wont allow for autorotation right?
[19:22:03] <anonimasu> while tilt wing will
[19:22:35] <dmess> yes ive thought of breaking into a museum... on a cold manitoba night too.... many times...
[19:24:20] <dmess> these were some of the guys that put man on the moon
[19:29:52] <tomp2> Jorge Barrera's Open Source Hardware ( open source milling machine design ) is very interesting http://www1.eafit.edu.co/wiki/index.php/Herramientas_de_Manufactura_Dise%C3%B1o_Abierto
[19:32:33] <tomp2> 5hp machine with 18x20x30in travel, and a #40 NMTB 9500rpm spindle
[19:32:54] <anonimasu> hmm, that machine is very similiar to a datron machine
[19:34:58] <anonimasu> I'd love that machine
[19:39:24] <anonimasu> looks solid
[19:40:23] <tomp2> the uni has nice links to EMC http://www1.eafit.edu.co/wiki/index.php/Linux_CNC_EMC
[19:40:52] <tomp2> i dont understand the framing yet, there's trusses behind it
[19:53:19] <jmkasunich> tomp2: what don't you understand?
[19:53:44] <anonimasu> it's to make it stiff..
[19:54:01] <jmkasunich> its kind of interesting - a gantry, but instead of having long legs on the gantry itself, they put the rails on long risers
[19:54:16] <anonimasu> makes good sense actually
[19:54:18] <anonimasu> less moving mass
[19:54:30] <jmkasunich> yeah, as long as the risers don't eat into the working space
[19:54:36] <anonimasu> yep
[19:54:44] <anonimasu> but you have the same problem with a gantry machine
[19:55:05] <jmkasunich> on a gantry machine the head can be out in front of the wheels
[19:55:22] <jmkasunich> so the Y travel can bring the tool centerline to (or even beyond) the X rail centerline
[19:55:24] <anonimasu> yeah, but when do you have stuff protruding outside of your rails on your machine?
[19:55:39] <anonimasu> (I've cut very long parts)
[19:55:41] <jmkasunich> on the raised rail machine, the side of the spindle motor or housing will hit the rails
[19:56:00] <anonimasu> I guess they limited the work envelope..
[19:56:28] <jmkasunich> I'm planning my own gantry-ish machine, but I want to do 5-axis, with one tilting axis on the head
[19:56:42] <anonimasu> another good ting is that with a design like that you have the enclosure integrated
[19:56:56] <jmkasunich> when the head is tilted to the side, the motor and the "top" of the spindle will be very far to the side, out beyond the rails
[19:57:04] <anonimasu> yeah :/
[19:57:21] <anonimasu> seen deckel glidemeister machines?
[19:57:24] <jmkasunich> still, it is an interesting concept
[19:57:28] <jmkasunich> no, I don't think so
[19:57:28] <anonimasu> the 5 axis ones?
[19:57:41] <anonimasu> ok
[19:57:44] <anonimasu> hold on
[19:57:56] <jmkasunich> googling
[20:00:46] <jmkasunich> haven't found any usefull info
[20:00:57] <jmkasunich> plenty of people selling them, mostly in india
[20:01:18] <anonimasu> the ones i've seen they have a moving spindle
[20:01:30] <anonimasu> and stationary table with two rotary axes
[20:01:47] <jmkasunich> oh, stacked rotaries for 5-axis?
[20:02:05] <jmkasunich> I don't want to do that approach (the work envelope winds up being rather small
[20:02:21] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:02:26] <jmkasunich> I'm planning to have one rotary on the head, so the spindle can go from vertical to horizontal
[20:02:35] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:02:43] <jmkasunich> and the other rotary on the table - a single rotary with axis vertical can hold fairly large parts
[20:03:06] <jmkasunich> I can also remove the 2nd table and do 4 axis work on anything that fits the table
[20:03:33] <jmkasunich> I have a 12" x 24" (300x600mm) T-slotted cast iron table, and an 8" (200mm) rotary table already
[20:04:12] <jmkasunich> I'd like to have about 12" under the gantry as well, and have enough travels that the tool tip can be anywhere in that 12 x 12 x 24" space
[20:04:28] <anonimasu> http://www.gildemeister.com/query/internet/v3/igpdf.nsf/E723F33982922885C125742E00454445/$file/pm6us08_DMU5070eVolinear.pdf
[20:04:32] <jmkasunich> (in any orientation from vertical to horizontal, and with any reasonalbe tool length)
[20:04:33] <anonimasu> page 7
[20:04:59] <jmkasunich> ah, gilde, not glide
[20:05:17] <anonimasu> ah sorry
[20:07:03] <jmkasunich> the 45 degree tilt is clever - that gives a better ratio between work volume and rotary axis size than the usual stacked configuration
[20:08:15] <jmkasunich> the goal for my project is to maximize the working volume relative to the total size and weight of the machine
[20:08:32] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:08:35] <anonimasu> http://www.gildemeister.com/query/internet/v3/igpdf.nsf/45D6A54681EA8240C125723C003AC1ED/$file/pm6us08_DMC60TDMU406080100monoBLOCK.pdf
[20:08:49] <jmkasunich> hence gantry - if the table has to move, then the overall size is the sum of the table size and the travel distance
[20:08:49] <anonimasu> page 8 has another configutation
[20:08:50] <anonimasu> :)
[20:08:55] <dmess> i used to be a deckel gildemeister applications engineer...
[20:09:04] <anonimasu> dmess: cool
[20:09:08] <anonimasu> dmess: good machines+
[20:09:08] <anonimasu> ?
[20:09:15] <dmess> what do you wanna know
[20:09:22] <anonimasu> lol.. im not buying one..
[20:09:25] <anonimasu> I like the looks of them :p
[20:09:34] <dmess> excelent machine....
[20:10:13] <anonimasu> :)
[20:10:23] <dmess> the twin 32 lathe kicks ass... the P-type 5 axis ROCKS....
[20:10:31] <anonimasu> I'll never be able to afford one.
[20:10:42] <anonimasu> but, they look cute ^^
[20:11:11] <anonimasu> relatively small and heavy
[20:11:55] <dmess> the lineal drive x-axis i was able to cut a cam with,, at 200 rpm... drove service guys nuts when i told them i was trying to cut a straight diameter
[20:12:03] <dmess> linear
[20:12:23] <anonimasu> :)
[20:12:41] <dmess> i am such an A-hole... ; )
[20:12:47] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:13:04] <dmess> 12 lobe cam BTW
[20:13:17] <dmess> machine was ROCK'in
[20:13:39] <anonimasu> didnt that guy at cnczone already say that you cant make cams other then grind them ;)
[20:13:40] <dmess> i said OPPS what did the WOPS do this time
[20:14:19] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:14:20] <dmess> linear drives i can turn MOS any cam
[20:14:27] <anonimasu> mos?
[20:14:32] <dmess> most
[20:14:42] <dmess> HARD
[20:14:58] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[20:15:28] <dmess> no i mean after h/t
[20:15:54] <dmess> Rc 53-55
[20:54:17] <K`zan_emc> I'm about out of ideas here, starting to wonder if this whole mess is capable of working with any degree of accuracy. Even the computer it is running on is suspect at this point:
[20:54:21] <K`zan_emc> This time, there were 7780472 which is so anomalously...
[20:56:00] <K`zan_emc> The computer is a 2G celeron with 512M RAM and I have heard strange things about commerically built systems that I wonder about this HP pavilion 540n - it is noticibly slower than my 2.2G AMD...
[20:56:06] <K`zan_emc> Scratch, scratch.
[20:57:07] <K`zan_emc> Actual mill hardware *might* be OK and it is just missing pulses, but as near as I can tell by eyeball for a 1" move the mark on the leadscrew *seems* to be in the right place.
[20:57:43] <K`zan_emc> :-) might be OK for engraving BBs into boxcars :)
[20:58:18] <anonimasu> hm
[20:58:38] <anonimasu> K`zan: if it is why is it only one axis?
[20:58:57] <anonimasu> (if it's your computer)
[20:59:35] <K`zan_emc> To be honest I am not sure, just for jollies I am going to stuff the indicator on the X and just get real numbers as to what happens there...
[20:59:58] <K`zan_emc> Too many points of possible problem complicated by my own ignorance at this point.
[21:00:18] <anonimasu> yep
[21:00:56] <anonimasu> never assume measure..
[21:01:44] <anonimasu> I've learned it the hard way
[21:04:26] <K`zan_emc> As am I :-).
[21:04:31] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:04:59] <K`zan_emc> Well, it doth look like the X has the same problem almost exactly (+/- ~0.003-4-5?!?)
[21:05:06] <K`zan_emc> g00 x0
[21:05:09] <anonimasu> doth?
[21:05:19] <alex_joni> both
[21:05:23] <anonimasu> ah
[21:05:32] <alex_joni> does?
[21:05:34] <K`zan_emc> does :-), old form - I am reading the Master and Commander series again :).
[21:05:44] <anonimasu> decrease the steprate?
[21:05:49] <K`zan_emc> g00 x .2
[21:05:56] <alex_joni> g1fxx
[21:05:57] <anonimasu> g1 x.2 f100
[21:06:04] <anonimasu> or f5
[21:06:05] <anonimasu> or something
[21:06:06] <anonimasu> :)
[21:06:08] <alex_joni> anonimasu: you're assuming mm
[21:06:09] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is in mm
[21:06:16] <K`zan_emc> Lemme get all this on one desktop...
[21:06:18] <alex_joni> x.2 in mm makes little sense for testing
[21:06:19] <anonimasu> g1 x.2 f0.2
[21:06:31] <alex_joni> now that's too slow
[21:06:34] <alex_joni> 1 minute for .2"
[21:06:39] <anonimasu> hehe..
[21:06:48] <anonimasu> I do 0.02 moves alot :P
[21:06:50] <anonimasu> mm
[21:06:57] <alex_joni> but not at F0.02
[21:07:02] <anonimasu> yep
[21:07:03] <K`zan_emc> OK, jog speed is at 6.3 IPM
[21:07:26] <K`zan_emc> set it down to, say, 3 IPM ?
[21:08:03] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:08:05] <anonimasu> or slower
[21:08:18] <K`zan_emc> same more or less, lemme set it lower.
[21:08:51] <K`zan_emc> same at 1 ipm
[21:09:32] <K`zan_emc> same at .5"/m
[21:09:43] <anonimasu> odd
[21:09:59] <anonimasu> alex_joni: got any idea?
[21:10:03] <K`zan_emc> command a 0.1" move I get 0.085 at any feed rate.
[21:10:31] <K`zan_emc> pretty consistant and it does return to zero on the indicator with g00 x0 commanded.
[21:10:40] <K`zan_emc> Seems to do the same thing on Z too.
[21:10:47] <K`zan_emc> At least that is somehow encouraging.
[21:10:56] <K`zan_emc> g00 x0
[21:12:01] <rayh> does it display 0.085 or move 0.085 or display both?
[21:12:06] <K`zan_emc> So my moves are 85% of what they sould be.
[21:12:21] <K`zan_emc> axis shows 0.1
[21:12:28] <K`zan_emc> indicator shows 0.085
[21:12:41] <alex_joni> sounds like scale is not right
[21:12:46] <rayh> sounds like an input scale problem
[21:12:54] <rayh> great minds!
[21:13:04] <anonimasu> yeah is it's always the same :)
[21:13:10] <anonimasu> if it moves around it's something else
[21:13:15] <alex_joni> rayh: what? where?
[21:13:25] <rayh> What is the input scale you're using?
[21:13:29] <K`zan_emc> It seems to be pretty consistant.
[21:13:37] <K`zan_emc> I just wonder....
[21:13:40] <anonimasu> K`zan: you mean you are always 0.085 short?
[21:14:16] <K`zan_emc> anonimasu: No always (for a 0.1 move) .015 short (moves 0.085 - 0.015 short)
[21:14:25] <anonimasu> oh
[21:14:35] <anonimasu> why didnt you say so in the beginning ^_^
[21:14:47] <K`zan_emc> Heh, I thought I did...
[21:14:58] <K`zan_emc> Sigh....... Ignornace is NOT bliss :-(.
[21:14:58] <anonimasu> +/- -_-
[21:15:08] <K`zan_emc> ??
[21:15:34] <anonimasu> <K`zan_emc> Well, it doth look like the X has the same problem almost exactly (+/- ~0.003-4-5?!?)
[21:15:44] <K`zan_emc> Lemme power down the drive and turn off the power reduction mode and see what happens,
[21:16:01] <rayh> Wait
[21:16:06] <alex_joni> yes, wait
[21:16:07] <K`zan_emc> Yes, the move it does make is within that range of the 0.084
[21:16:11] <rayh> What is the input scale you are using?
[21:16:11] <alex_joni> let's go through the numbers
[21:16:17] <K`zan_emc> not dead on
[21:16:23] <K`zan_emc> 16000 IIRC
[21:16:36] <alex_joni> K`zan_emc: explain
[21:16:38] <K`zan_emc> lemme load the config file
[21:16:45] <K`zan_emc> OK let me try again.
[21:16:52] <alex_joni> motor, microstepping, ...
[21:17:02] <K`zan_emc> I command a 0.1" move (g00 x .1)
[21:17:15] <alex_joni> (not that.. I got that..)
[21:17:21] <K`zan_emc> Axis shows it has moved t0 0.1
[21:17:24] <anonimasu> me too now :)
[21:17:48] <K`zan_emc> indicator shows it *actually* moved to 0.085 (+/- a few 0.001).
[21:17:56] <alex_joni> explain how you cae up to 16000
[21:18:02] <alex_joni> came up to 16000
[21:18:25] <K`zan_emc> Stepper: 1.8 degree = 200 steps / rotation.
[21:19:10] <K`zan_emc> err, I'm getting confused lemme get stepconf up...
[21:19:13] <alex_joni> ok, so far.. go on
[21:19:25] <alex_joni> do your drives use microstepping?
[21:19:38] <K`zan_emc> yes, currently set for 1/4
[21:19:41] <alex_joni> you should know these without looking at stepconf
[21:19:51] <alex_joni> ok.. so 800 pulses for a full revolution
[21:20:05] <K`zan_emc> I'm pretty sure it is 16,000 but I want to see what I have in stepconf to be sure!!!
[21:20:06] <alex_joni> what screws did you use?
[21:20:12] <K`zan_emc> 1/4-20
[21:20:27] <alex_joni> K`zan_emc: first we should find out what it should be, then you can check if it's ok
[21:20:37] <alex_joni> 1/4-20 doesn't mean much to me
[21:20:40] <alex_joni> <- non US
[21:20:46] <K`zan_emc> 20 tpi
[21:20:57] <K`zan_emc> 1/4" dia all thread.
[21:21:04] <alex_joni> ok.. so 16000 sounds right for moving one inch
[21:21:36] <alex_joni> K`zan_emc: make it move 0.05 and see if the motor turns exactly one turn
[21:21:37] <K`zan_emc> OK, here is what I have, is same for each axis:
[21:21:57] <K`zan_emc> Time to accelerate to max: 1.6s
[21:22:17] <K`zan_emc> distance to accelerate to max: 0.6400"
[21:22:37] <K`zan_emc> pulse rate at max: 12800.0 Hz
[21:22:51] <K`zan_emc> axis SCALE 16000.0
[21:22:57] <K`zan_emc> checking now.
[21:23:15] <K`zan_emc> * K`zan_emc looks for permanent marker...
[21:23:40] <K`zan_emc> g00 x .05
[21:23:44] <K`zan_emc> rghh
[21:23:44] <alex_joni> not g0
[21:23:54] <K`zan_emc> not go?
[21:23:54] <alex_joni> stop using g0 .. that is using max speed
[21:24:01] <K`zan_emc> ok g01
[21:24:03] <alex_joni> and if the speed is too high you'll lose steps
[21:24:11] <alex_joni> use G1 F20
[21:24:23] <alex_joni> G1 F20 x0.05
[21:24:33] <K`zan_emc> Thanks :)
[21:25:09] <K`zan_emc> LOL, helps if one marks the right axis :-) <blush>
[21:25:42] <K`zan_emc> It sure looks like it makes a full turn.
[21:25:44] <alex_joni> heh :)
[21:25:48] <K`zan_emc> eyeball indicator
[21:25:52] <alex_joni> ok.. next do another turn
[21:25:58] <alex_joni> g1 x 0.1
[21:26:15] <alex_joni> then go to more turns (g1 x0.5)
[21:26:24] <alex_joni> those should be 10 turns
[21:26:35] <alex_joni> as the number of turns increases you'll notice small differences
[21:26:45] <K`zan_emc> still looks good... doing more
[21:26:55] <K`zan_emc> g01 x.5
[21:27:13] <alex_joni> btw, were you doing g0 before ? (when you noticed the indicator difference?)
[21:27:18] <K`zan_emc> yes
[21:27:29] <alex_joni> then you probably have your max vel set too high
[21:27:34] <alex_joni> and you simply lose steps
[21:27:45] <K`zan_emc> I think the code was using g01 though lemme check
[21:28:19] <K`zan_emc> Nope, g00
[21:28:21] <K`zan_emc> Aha
[21:28:38] <alex_joni> I bet your indicator test will work ok with g1
[21:28:43] <rayh> 16000 is what Sherline uses with 20tpi and 4 microsteps per step.
[21:28:50] <K`zan_emc> All rapids (positioning) are g00
[21:29:06] <alex_joni> yes, but that is only safe after you found your max speed
[21:29:12] <K`zan_emc> lemme try it with the indicator
[21:29:49] <alex_joni> K`zan_emc: after you've proven that it works with the indicator, gradually repeat the test with higher F-words
[21:29:57] <alex_joni> g1x0.1 f30
[21:29:58] <K`zan_emc> Nope, same thing with g01
[21:30:13] <rayh> F30 may be to much.
[21:30:29] <K`zan_emc> down to f10
[21:30:42] <K`zan_emc> nope
[21:30:45] <K`zan_emc> trying 5
[21:30:57] <alex_joni> maybe accel is too high
[21:31:10] <K`zan_emc> same at 5
[21:31:25] <alex_joni> K`zan_emc: how about the marking on the shaft?
[21:31:32] <alex_joni> is it still ok at 20 turns?
[21:31:37] <K`zan_emc> max accel set to .5 on all axis
[21:31:53] <K`zan_emc> near as I can tell - same place with all the messing around.
[21:32:43] <alex_joni> then it might not be 20 tpi screws
[21:33:13] <K`zan_emc> hummm wait a sec
[21:33:49] <LawrenceG> I believe the pipedream uses the stepper bearings as thrust bearings..... is the missing 0.015" measured after a direction reversal? or every 0.1" move in the same direction?
[21:34:11] <alex_joni> LawrenceG: good question
[21:34:20] <K`zan_emc> Thought it might have been stalled briefly at start - just the noise at F1
[21:34:40] <K`zan_emc> After the first move it seems to move .1 after that, lemme verify...
[21:35:03] <alex_joni> then it's backlash
[21:35:35] <K`zan_emc> First commanded 0.1 move actually moves to 0.084 on the indicator - now let me command 0.2
[21:36:22] <K`zan_emc> Commanded move to 0.2 shows the indicator at 1.083
[21:36:50] <alex_joni> K`zan_emc: now make it go to 0.1
[21:37:04] <K`zan_emc> Commanded move to 0.3 shows the indicator at 2.082
[21:37:06] <K`zan_emc> rr
[21:37:14] <K`zan_emc> g01 x.1
[21:37:19] <K`zan_emc> sigh
[21:37:47] <K`zan_emc> Indicator read 1.002
[21:38:09] <K`zan_emc> WTF?!?!?!
[21:38:13] <alex_joni> K`zan_emc: backlash
[21:38:22] <K`zan_emc> g0 x0
[21:38:57] <K`zan_emc> Axis doesn't execute my comments for you down there either :).
[21:39:07] <alex_joni> nope it doesn't
[21:39:31] <K`zan_emc> that is a hell of a lot of backlash even for a standard allthread coupling nut - there isn't that much space between threads ?!?!
[21:40:00] <K`zan_emc> Something is rotten in seattle, well other than seattle itself....
[21:40:41] <alex_joni> K`zan_emc: the backlash is not there
[21:40:47] <alex_joni> the backlash is in the stepper motor
[21:40:59] <alex_joni> try moving the axis by hand with the motor stopped
[21:41:38] <K`zan_emc> I wonder if that power reduction feature on idle might be causing this. Hate to loose that as the steppers will keep your coffee hot without it.
[21:42:05] <K`zan_emc> Lemme power down the drive, turn that off and see what happens.
[21:42:07] <alex_joni> LawrenceG suggested that the bearings in the steppers are the problem
[21:42:09] <LawrenceG> you should be able to see the stepper shaft move in and out of the motor 0.015" if its in the stepper
[21:42:39] <K`zan_emc> If it is I can't see it
[21:42:56] <skunkworks> lots of smaller steppers have the bearing assembly spring loaded.
[21:42:58] <K`zan_emc> move the leadscrew the stepper moves back and forth...
[21:43:08] <K`zan_emc> Errr,
[21:43:18] <K`zan_emc> I may have found it
[21:43:20] <LawrenceG> typically steppers have a spring washer that takes up the slop axially
[21:43:43] <skunkworks> ^^ :)
[21:44:54] <K`zan_emc> stepper itself moves back and forth looks like about 0.05
[21:45:17] <K`zan_emc> g01 x.5
[21:45:47] <K`zan_emc> Need more rigid stepper mounts...
[21:47:01] <K`zan_emc> from indicated zero doing an x 0.5 it moves to 0.0085... g01 x0 it goes back to zero.
[21:47:21] <K`zan_emc> well, -0.0005
[21:47:27] <K`zan_emc> So.....
[21:48:06] <K`zan_emc> g01 y.5
[21:50:02] <K`zan_emc> Y is mounted on a 1/8" plate and it moves about 0.0005 at most.
[21:50:17] <K`zan_emc> First I check the Z and see how bad that is.
[21:51:05] <dmess> you nee a trust washer
[21:51:15] <dmess> need
[21:52:08] <K`zan_emc> Problem with this "construction :)" is there is no place for a thrust washer to thrust against...
[21:52:40] <K`zan_emc> X is the worst - held by 2 "L" brackets on top of a 1" pipe.
[21:53:48] <K`zan> dmess: http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/MyMachineShop/PipeDreamMill/PDM-V2/IMG_0013.JPG
[21:54:13] <K`zan> Y was extended with a 1/8" al plate - that is pretty tight.
[21:54:33] <K`zan> First I guess I stiffen up the stepper mounts.
[21:55:30] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:55:37] <K`zan> Night alex_joni
[21:55:46] <K`zan> Thanks :-)!
[21:55:54] <alex_joni> np.. glad you figured it out
[21:56:36] <dmess> K`z... its breathing... hook the top pipes to the lower ones.. z wil stabalize..
[21:58:42] <skunkworks> wow - with the hardy livecd I was able to hook the wireless card in a tablet laptop up to my network.
[21:58:51] <skunkworks> painless. lot easier than dapper
[21:58:58] <K`zan_emc> Sure wish it supported mine :-(.
[21:59:20] <K`zan_emc> It would save me 100' of ethernet and a lot of dragging stuff out to get around it.
[21:59:20] <skunkworks> (older hardware helps - 1.6ghz intel centrino)
[21:59:54] <skunkworks> wonder if I could get the tablet working in ubuntu.. tried once the other day and it borked the hardy install. Sure it was something I did
[22:00:02] <K`zan_emc> Funny, either version with emc on it won't support that dongle, but my desktop does (7.10)
[22:00:15] <K`zan_emc> tablet?
[22:00:43] <K`zan_emc> drawing variety or IT
[22:00:47] <K`zan_emc> ?
[22:00:56] <skunkworks> one of those laptops that the screen swings around lays flat so you can write on it.
[22:01:11] <K`zan_emc> ah, dunno...
[22:01:22] <K`zan_emc> g01 z 0
[22:01:25] <skunkworks> heh
[22:01:31] <skunkworks> * skunkworks has done that.
[22:01:32] <dmess> your askin alot..
[22:01:34] <K`zan_emc> There is a reason I put emc on another desktop
[22:03:17] <K`zan_emc> Z isn't too bad on a retract, the stepper moves about 0.007 down.
[22:03:22] <K`zan_emc> Still a lot though.
[22:03:43] <K`zan_emc> Yeppers, this little pipedream is INDEED being educational :-) :-) :-).
[22:03:55] <K`zan_emc> And so are you folks, THANKS!
[23:11:58] <LawrenceG> now where did I leave the soldering gun?
[23:16:19] <tomp2> dont sit down, it might be in your hip pocket
[23:17:38] <tomp2> a guy gave me a Fluke 199C, it didnt work, i fixed it. ( charged the battery :)
[23:24:14] <LawrenceG> good one... found the iron.... it was in the tool box
[23:24:24] <LawrenceG> it never lives in there
[23:49:39] <tom1> the ISABEL live cd might be good for the FEST (server for streaming lectures) http://isabel.dit.upm.es
[23:56:45] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I'm tempted to buy a videocam and send it with a tripod to have them tape Ray's lectures. Problem is most cams don't offer audio inputs until you look at units that are rather pricy.
[23:57:07] <SkullWorks_PGAB> so a "lapel Mic" isn't an option.
[23:57:29] <SWPadnos> my digital camera has no input, but has a microphone
[23:57:54] <SWPadnos> I haven't looked at how much storage would be needed to record a full lecture
[23:58:25] <SWPadnos> (it's the one we took the videos of the mazak threading with)