#emc | Logs for 2008-05-18

[00:01:08] <cradek> dan: there always is, but people won't always jump to answer a question like that, they hold out for the juicy ones
[00:01:45] <cradek> K`zan: not having a lot of luck loading your page from here, I'll keep trying
[00:02:07] <dan> got it.
[00:02:18] <cradek> dan: welcome
[00:02:29] <dan> thank you.
[00:02:49] <cradek> K`zan: what did you cut?
[00:03:18] <dan> just moved all my machines around, so they would be close together and then it occoured to me that I could aleviate my computer problems with a 4 way parallel port switch and run them all off of one PC.
[00:03:27] <dan> Juicy yet?
[00:03:41] <cradek> not a question :-)
[00:03:51] <dan> ah
[00:03:59] <dan> I'll give it a whirl.
[00:04:16] <cradek> you mean an old style mechanical switch?
[00:04:48] <dan> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/ there is a Pupply linux EMC2 iso., it that worth a whirl on my crust laptop?
[00:04:58] <dan> yeah old style mechanical switch
[00:05:24] <dan> I'll just attach another stepper to it and spint it real fast.
[00:05:31] <cradek> unfortunately the puppy system is very outdated. I think it was made even before EMC 2.0.0
[00:06:13] <dan> Well as part of my brutal Linux learning curve I have been trying everything.
[00:06:17] <cradek> options for underpowered machines are pretty slim
[00:06:42] <cradek> I watch the dumpsters (and equivalent) for old P3 machines. they work great.
[00:07:02] <cradek> often just have to add some ram and they're ready to go
[00:07:32] <cradek> most laptops are incompatible with realtime control, probably because of their powersaving stuff
[00:07:37] <dan> Well, call me a luddite but it seems to me that 850mhz is fast. But the laptop thing seems to be a show stopper.
[00:07:51] <cradek> I think P3 850 is a great EMC machine
[00:07:52] <dan> yeah, mysterious BIOS stuff.
[00:08:20] <cradek> I will have two machines about that speed running my stuff at the cnc workshop in june
[00:08:21] <dan> At some point the Coreboot thing seems like it will make all the problems go away.
[00:09:05] <dan> Have the developers looked at coreboot at all?
[00:09:09] <renesis_> cradek: ubuntu 8 emc is pretty ok?
[00:09:13] <cradek> what is coreboot?
[00:09:39] <cradek> renesis_: I have only seen the reports you have, I haven't used it to run a machine yet, but all seems well
[00:10:06] <renesis_> neat, okay ill try when this job done
[00:10:08] <dan> I just tried to install that today U8-emc on a dell 1.7mhz and it did not go.well at all but the dapper went on fine
[00:10:18] <renesis_> haha all thats working with the old lts is parport and usb
[00:10:18] <dan> Coreboot is linux open bios
[00:10:31] <renesis_> omg bios =\
[00:10:49] <dan> yeah for real OS bios
[00:11:05] <renesis_> dont touch! very bad things!
[00:11:13] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I just picked up a Intel D201GLY Mini ITX MBD with a P4 Cele @ 1.33GHz - Will see how it fares with both 6.06 and Hardy - The Big question will be the integrated Video...
[00:11:17] <renesis_> manufacturer secret h4x, break your life
[00:11:57] <dan> check out the site it's very interesting. Those guys are super smarties
[00:12:25] <renesis_> i hope theyre fucking with random machine code =(
[00:12:59] <dan> They leveraged their positions working at some supercomputer lab making cluster super comps into getting some manufacturers to support it
[00:13:00] <cradek> dan: can you elaborate on "did not go well"
[00:13:37] <dan> I'd be interested in the Mini ITX I was thinking about those. For a project.
[00:14:03] <dan> did not go well= unnormal start screen, hang very early on.
[00:14:13] <cradek> bbl
[00:14:55] <^Fritz> Man, I'd love it if I could roll my own bios for every machine I have
[00:14:58] <renesis_> tried diff boot options?
[00:15:08] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I got this one - from a trusted source. http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=BOXD201GLYL&cat=MBB&cpc=MBBbsc
[00:15:32] <renesis_> cute
[00:15:51] <dan> which is a funny thing because it installed fine on the laptop it just crashes after you try to actually use it.
[00:16:16] <tomp3> cradek: is this worth a shot? dual P3 700's http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/15818
[00:16:57] <dan> I am dreaming that in a few months you will be able to customize every aspect of your bios, no nasty hidden funkitude like powersaving or SMI.
[00:16:57] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Technically its EOL (End of Life cycle) as they have allready released the D201GLY2 which has SATA II ports for $20 more.
[00:18:03] <dan> everyone says Celeron=death
[00:18:24] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Tomp - ECC 168 pin mem can be costly...
[00:19:27] <tomp3> SkullWorks_PGAB: heres one http://www.pcprogress.com/product.asp?m1=pw&pid=MDS133-64X72R
[00:19:54] <SkullWorks_PGAB> * SkullWorks_PGAB has 3 GTW 6400 servers and the mem is still outrageous.
[00:20:15] <tomp3> cheap at 25$/gig ECC and registered
[00:20:28] <dan> will Ubuntu and emc handle that dual processor? I have a dual processor server thing hanging out under my bench, without a powersupply it looks alot like that Tynan
[00:20:29] <tomp3> think that mobo is worth trying?
[00:20:53] <tomp3> dan leave the 2nd out as a backup (i think)
[00:21:52] <dan> use one processor?
[00:22:12] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Thats a deal if it will work - I bought "bargain mem" and it wasn't worth the ground shipping charge.
[00:22:39] <jepler> dan: the pre-built kernels for 32 bit processors do not include SMP support, so one CPU will go unused.
[00:22:40] <tomp3> dan: i cant answer, maybe someone here with dual knows, its been talked about here
[00:23:36] <SkullWorks_PGAB> so could we just get the make file from Alex and add SMP?
[00:23:37] <K`zan> cradek: Printed circuit board.
[00:23:58] <dan> Ebay is best if you are patient, I got two Dell 8100 with CPU and Memory, Mobo only for 30 with shipping. Three Power Supplies for 45 with shipping.
[00:23:58] <K`zan> Just made a couple more retaining arms for the Z axis - we'll see if that helps.
[00:24:28] <SWPadnos> there is an experimental SMP kernel for 6.06 that seems to work quite nicely, though it has no SATA support
[00:25:10] <K`zan> switching over the emc box...
[00:26:16] <SkullWorks_PGAB> unfortunately all my dual boards except an old slot 1 have onboard SCSI - which reaks havoc with realtime.
[00:26:20] <jepler> SWPadnos: and you have to compile your own emc to go with it
[00:26:30] <tomp3> will PC133 memory work in PC100 bus slots?
[00:26:35] <SWPadnos> hmmm. amybe I did have to do that :)
[00:26:39] <SkullWorks_PGAB> maybe
[00:26:48] <SWPadnos> didn't notice, as I as writing new drivers and stuff, so I was compiling all the time
[00:27:16] <SkullWorks_PGAB> non ECC will often work
[00:29:19] <dan> I have yet to compile anything. I can use vi and edit stuff I read about on the mailing lists. me=n00b
[00:29:39] <rayh> Hi dan I've installed EMC2 on several MiniITX boxes. Some work really well with onboard video, some dont'
[00:29:55] <jepler> dan: then you'll probably see more frustration than benefit if you try to compile SMP for yourself
[00:30:39] <dan> Oh, well, I had not really considered using that one. It's in my spare parts pile.
[00:31:18] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I have heard that the Unichrome Int video plays well with RT - I'm hoping the SiS Mirage will behave also. (fingers crossed!)
[00:31:48] <dan> I am working up to it. I just read alot about Linux and try stuff. A month ago I was hating it. slow progress though.
[00:32:13] <dan> I would like to try a kernel, real minimal, but thats a way off.
[00:32:22] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Seems strage that for there sol Mini ITX offerring Intel put out a board using a SiS chipset instead of there own.
[00:32:50] <dan> I just want my router to work in the meantime.
[00:33:15] <rayh> I prefer the via chipset and mobo for these. My experience with the Unichrome system is that it works pretty well.
[00:34:39] <dan> What sot of machines are you all running? Lathe mill?
[00:35:57] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Well I'm going to try the live CD - then a Hardy install and run it thru the paces, pass or fail I will write it up for compatable hardware either to point people to a good choice or to save there time and money.
[00:36:20] <dan> I have a converted Wrong Fu mill, a converted HF 7 X 10 lathe and a 4 X 8 router I scratch built.
[00:36:48] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Wrong Fu - must us Mach III
[00:36:53] <SkullWorks_PGAB> use...
[00:37:17] <dan> I tried Mach, and it was driving me nuts.
[00:37:19] <SkullWorks_PGAB> sorry - could not resist
[00:37:42] <^Fritz> Haven't had a chance to read the user-list lately...and further musing on sound card output with emc2?
[00:38:49] <dan> Lots of talk about Mesa I/O cards and the new EMC release.
[00:39:07] <SkullWorks_PGAB> are you referring to the topic of using sound port as a PWM source?
[00:39:20] <^Fritz> skull: yeah, that
[00:39:36] <dan> I remember that. Cool concept.
[00:40:14] <^Fritz> I've compiled 'signalgen' on my machine, and it runs with almost no problems with emc2 up and running
[00:40:23] <dan> I was thinking about mocking up a stepper driven speaker. Deathmetal bass cabinet.
[00:40:26] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I think that idea kinda faded out... - But who knows what might be going on in a basement or garage somewhere...
[00:41:12] <^Fritz> It seems that audio glitches happen because the audio sample is computed as needed when settings are changed
[00:41:26] <SkullWorks_PGAB> hmm Crank up the Volume on my PWM spindle...
[00:42:59] <^Fritz> If you were to have an array of sound samples, it should work flawlessly. 5 kHz PWM control signal, here I come!
[00:43:36] <tomp3> realtime audio is needed, and there are some linux kernel patches for that, http://www.gardena.net/benno/linux/audio/
[00:44:37] <^Fritz> I'm pretty certain that it could be left in userspace
[00:45:33] <SkullWorks_PGAB> hmm - what about direction? - still have to provide a signal from a different I?O source for that.
[00:46:55] <tomp3> left channel right channel?
[00:47:15] <SkullWorks_PGAB> also need a chargepump safety for resets/booting
[00:47:27] <K`zan_emc> F is not working for feed rate...
[00:47:36] <K`zan_emc> Not sure what I am getting but it is FAST.
[00:48:08] <SkullWorks_PGAB> this on your HobbyCNC board?
[00:48:10] <K`zan_emc> No F, F5, F10, F 0.1 all result in the same speed
[00:48:15] <K`zan_emc> Yes, it is.
[00:48:57] <K`zan_emc> lemm restart emc and see what happens.
[00:49:10] <K`zan_emc> I thought max was going to be 0.8 as set in stepconf...
[00:50:00] <tomp3> you can prectice with different speed with the motor uncoupled, and not worry about limits or runaway
[00:50:22] <tomp3> practice
[00:50:34] <K`zan_emc> Program us running fine, just a small box...
[00:51:01] <K`zan_emc> Just snapped the tool figuring out it is hauling arse, not sure what I did/
[00:51:28] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Open source cell phones hardware and software http://www.openmoko.com/
[00:52:20] <tomp3> some nice little molds for emc to make
[00:52:22] <K`zan_emc> Anything has to be better than the crap that comes on this raxor.
[00:52:30] <K`zan_emc> razor
[00:52:35] <SkullWorks_PGAB> to bad the ifles are all for Pro -E
[00:53:02] <dan> What do you use for CAM? I am using SheetCam at the moment
[00:53:42] <K`zan_emc> Well, I'm perplexed F0 doesn't do anything either,
[00:53:45] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I keep a W2K workstation for Solidworks - I guess I could try to import those.
[00:54:00] <dan> All my Cad and Cam is windows stuff, Corel Draw and DeltaCad. and Sheelt Cam
[00:56:03] <tomp3> open_moko has iges & step format cad drawings also http://downloads.openmoko.org/CAD/Neo1973_IGES_STEP.zip
[00:56:34] <K`zan_emc> lets see if rebooting this beast helps.
[00:56:36] <tomp3> my acad MDT can open iges
[00:56:40] <SkullWorks_PGAB> yeah - the Iges will import fine - you just can't edit them much
[00:58:35] <tomp3> I'm going to try that P3 700mhz with 1G. The ram seller is a couple blocks from where I work.
[01:00:08] <tomp3> and if i go to work I can document another mobo for the wiki, bye
[01:03:36] <K`zan_emc> Well, whatever it is feeding at is like 2"/sec. Maybe this machine is hosed somehow.
[01:04:21] <jmkasunich> not hosed, just misconfigured
[01:04:47] <jmkasunich> are you trying to run g-code?
[01:05:05] <K`zan_emc> Yes, but F has no effect at all.
[01:05:14] <K`zan_emc> Bad parallel port bit?
[01:05:17] <jmkasunich> ok, lets back up
[01:05:22] <jmkasunich> no, not on a stepper machine
[01:05:31] <jmkasunich> first, does it jog at the proper speed?
[01:05:33] <K`zan_emc> 120 IPM is a bit much.
[01:05:51] <jmkasunich> set the jog slider to 1 ipm, and hold down a jog button - does it take 30 seconds to move a half inch?
[01:06:12] <K`zan_emc> Probably, that is slow and noisy :)
[01:06:27] <jmkasunich> not probably - it either does or it doesn't
[01:06:34] <jmkasunich> do you own a ruler and a watch?
[01:06:44] <K`zan_emc> Gonna have to stick a pen in the chuck again.
[01:10:13] <K`zan_emc> Yes, 30 seconds to the 1/2"
[01:10:16] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:10:25] <jmkasunich> the jog slider should top out at 48 ipm, right?
[01:10:37] <K`zan_emc> Yes
[01:10:47] <jmkasunich> ok, set it to 30, and jog 2 inches
[01:10:51] <jmkasunich> that should take 4 seconds
[01:12:20] <dan> How do I launch my PyVCP?
[01:12:44] <jmkasunich> dan: do you want in independent panel, or a side panel with axis?
[01:12:55] <dan> side panel with axis
[01:12:56] <K`zan_emc> jmkasunich: Yes, 2" - 4 sec
[01:13:21] <jmkasunich> ok, so you know the machine is capable of moving at the speed you tell it
[01:13:28] <jmkasunich> now lets make sure the scale is right
[01:13:32] <K`zan_emc> Yes, just not in the programs
[01:13:46] <jmkasunich> note the value on the display, then jog back 2" using the ruler
[01:13:49] <K`zan_emc> Jumpered for 1/4 step/
[01:13:59] <K`zan_emc> Done
[01:14:02] <jmkasunich> the new display better be 2" away from the old one
[01:14:13] <K`zan_emc> Yes
[01:14:24] <jmkasunich> ok, so at least that axis is scaled right
[01:14:34] <K`zan_emc> 2.76 to 0.76
[01:14:50] <jmkasunich> (it might be off a tiny bit - rulers aren't the most accurate, but that will catch things like 1/2 vs 1/4 step)
[01:15:06] <jmkasunich> it would be good to check the other axis scales the same way
[01:15:10] <jmkasunich> then go to MDI mode
[01:15:35] <jmkasunich> G0 to some known position (G0X0Y0Z0 is the easiest
[01:15:41] <K`zan_emc> Already did that when I was having problems with things not moving the right distance. Helps when you have the right config :-)
[01:15:49] <jmkasunich> ok, just checking
[01:16:00] <jmkasunich> go to MDI then, and G0 to the origin
[01:16:09] <K`zan_emc> crap
[01:16:14] <K`zan_emc> g00 z 1
[01:16:31] <jmkasunich> lifted up 1"?
[01:16:47] <jmkasunich> or tried to stab the pen thru the table?
[01:17:00] <K`zan_emc> Yes, had the pen out too far for zero :).
[01:17:06] <K`zan_emc> Poor abused little refill :)
[01:17:09] <jmkasunich> take the pen out
[01:17:22] <jmkasunich> this stuff is safer with no tools (or pseudo-tools)
[01:17:41] <K`zan_emc> Out
[01:17:51] <K`zan_emc> Flying carbide is no fun.
[01:18:00] <jmkasunich> once you are at zero, do G1F1X0.5
[01:18:12] <jmkasunich> that is exactly what you did when jogging - move 0.5" at 1 ipm
[01:18:16] <jmkasunich> and it should take 30 seconds
[01:18:40] <jmkasunich> then do G1F10X1.5 - that will move it another inch, at 10 ipm - should take 6 seconds
[01:19:02] <jmkasunich> do various G1Fwhatever moves until you are convinced that the machine does what you tell it
[01:19:12] <jmkasunich> they try a program with the same moves in it
[01:19:42] <jmkasunich> s/they/then
[01:20:02] <K`zan_emc> Those worked.
[01:20:08] <K`zan_emc> I think I see the problem.
[01:20:15] <K`zan_emc> I was using F by itself.
[01:20:19] <jmkasunich> oh
[01:20:32] <K`zan_emc> G20
[01:20:32] <K`zan_emc> F 5
[01:20:32] <K`zan_emc> G00 Z 0.5
[01:20:49] <K`zan_emc> F should be preceeded by G1? or G01?
[01:21:14] <jmkasunich> F can be used by itself - your prob is the difference between G0 and G1
[01:21:24] <jmkasunich> G0 = go as fast as you can to this spot
[01:21:31] <K`zan_emc> Ah, G00 is running at some rapid value.
[01:21:34] <jmkasunich> G1 = go at the current F rate to this spot
[01:21:51] <jmkasunich> you can do things like this:
[01:21:54] <jmkasunich> G0 x0
[01:22:02] <jmkasunich> F 2 (set feed rate to 2)
[01:22:09] <jmkasunich> G0 X1 (rapid to 1)
[01:22:09] <K`zan_emc> aha, that explains it. All my G00 should be G01
[01:22:25] <jmkasunich> G1 X0 (move at rate 2 back to position 0)
[01:22:48] <K`zan_emc> Ok MUCH appreciate the dispellation of my ignorance here. MUCH.
[01:23:01] <K`zan_emc> s/00/01/
[01:23:11] <jmkasunich> it is good to play around with MDI to get a feel for what commands do
[01:23:40] <K`zan_emc> With no tools in the rig :).
[01:23:48] <jmkasunich> yes
[01:23:59] <jmkasunich> I tend to run my programs the first time with no tool loaded
[01:24:16] <dan> way more patient than me.
[01:24:19] <K`zan_emc> Yes, here too.
[01:24:19] <jmkasunich> air cuts easy, and air tools never break
[01:24:32] <dan> and my pile of broken endmills :)
[01:24:38] <K`zan_emc> I'll keep that as a quote :)
[01:25:32] <K`zan_emc> Now I got to get back to figuring out speeds (fixed) and feeds
[01:25:53] <K`zan_emc> g01 replacement works MUCH better.
[01:25:59] <jmkasunich> glad to hear it
[01:26:22] <K`zan_emc> Well, sigh, even if I didn't learn much as a CNC programmer, at least I got an interest in it all :-)
[01:26:56] <K`zan_emc> I knew I picked up that stopwatch at the thriftstore for some reason.
[01:27:07] <dan> Hand writing code is good for your brain, I had to write some lathe code. it took a long time.
[01:28:17] <dan> in the end I had widgets and I really understood what g43 did.
[01:28:33] <K`zan_emc> Unexpected realtime delay - check dmesg for details....
[01:29:03] <jmkasunich> go to a shell, type 'dmesg' and hit return
[01:29:18] <jmkasunich> it will print a pile of junk, the message you want is probably in the last 10 lines
[01:29:51] <K`zan_emc> [ 1748.219864] In recent history there were
[01:29:51] <K`zan_emc> [ 1748.219865] 2019820, 2020160, 2019760, 2000896, and 2019960
[01:29:51] <K`zan_emc> [ 1748.219867] elapsed clocks between calls to the motion controller.
[01:29:51] <K`zan_emc> [ 1748.219871] This time, there were 11194072 which is so anomalously
[01:29:53] <K`zan_emc> ...
[01:30:04] <jmkasunich> ouch
[01:30:10] <jmkasunich> I thought you ran the latency test
[01:30:13] <K`zan_emc> Starting to think this box was free for a reason.... That is not totally uncommon.
[01:30:15] <K`zan_emc> I did
[01:30:35] <jmkasunich> its about a 2 gig box, right?
[01:30:55] <jmkasunich> the approximately 2million numbers = a 1 millisecond servo period
[01:30:59] <K`zan_emc> 51061 was the worst after about an hour of poking it with every stick I could find.
[01:31:01] <jmkasunich> but that last one is 11 milliseconds
[01:31:05] <K`zan_emc> Yes - 2G
[01:31:10] <K`zan_emc> Celleron
[01:31:39] <jmkasunich> I'm afraid I don't know what to suggest at this point
[01:31:39] <K`zan_emc> PC2100 RAM
[01:32:01] <jmkasunich> oops, not 11mS, "only" 5.5mS
[01:32:08] <jmkasunich> still about 5.5 times longer than it should be
[01:32:08] <K`zan_emc> Dig out an 750 or 1100 Thunderbird box as see how far this box will fly...
[01:32:49] <K`zan_emc> It happens occasionally. Something to do with hp crap in the BIOS, possibly.
[01:33:04] <jmkasunich> what happens occasionaly?
[01:35:58] <jepler> K`zan_emc: maybe you need the smi workaround?
[01:36:09] <jepler> or did jmkasunich already cover that -- /me hasn't read back
[01:36:25] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[01:41:54] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Note: G00 pronounced phonetically is "Gee ut oh!" And MDI also stands for "Machine Destroyed Instantly"
[01:44:11] <SkullWorks_PGAB> that came from an NMTBS survey which found that more than 95% of machine crashes were rapid moves in MDI.
[01:51:23] <dan> hi I got dumped by my DSl
[01:51:31] <dan> DSL
[01:52:22] <dan> Can someone help me with my PyVCP?
[02:06:32] <dan_the_welder> OK, registered a proper handle.
[02:07:01] <dan_the_welder> Anyone care to help me out in setting up my PyVcp?
[02:07:55] <SWPadnos> what are you trying to do?
[02:08:21] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Mig, TIG, SMAW, Oxy-act, Oxy-H2 or all?
[02:11:18] <dan_the_welder> MIG TIG
[02:11:29] <dan_the_welder> http://www.organicengines.com
[02:12:20] <dan_the_welder> Oh, I don't know where the PyVCP is.
[02:12:35] <SWPadnos> cool - recumbents are great to ride
[02:12:44] <dan_the_welder> yeah fun
[02:13:37] <dan_the_welder> I have been making some parts with EMC.
[02:14:24] <dan_the_welder> I am kinda tired of making everything by hand
[02:14:29] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:14:43] <SWPadnos> I'm sure repeatability is easier with a CNC too :)
[02:15:26] <dan_the_welder> Are you calling my EYElignment inaccurate? I can assure you I can SEE a ten thou !!!!! :)
[02:15:55] <DanielFalck> cool bikes
[02:16:03] <dan_the_welder> Thank you.
[02:16:20] <DanielFalck> I work for King Cycle Group - Chris King
[02:16:24] <dan_the_welder> In fact I see a ten thou laying on the floor over there.
[02:17:04] <dan_the_welder> DanielFalck: Cool, you are one of the pros then.
[02:17:34] <dan_the_welder> You guys have been all up in the CNC since the beginning.
[02:17:52] <dan_the_welder> MMMM and gold anodizing........
[02:18:05] <DanielFalck> we're just part of it. I like seeing stuff like yours - very inspiring
[02:18:22] <DanielFalck> very organic : )
[02:18:33] <dan_the_welder> Thank you again :)
[02:19:41] <dan_the_welder> I build all the bikes pretty much by hand on all these evil jigs I made ten years ago, I want to go high tech.
[02:19:53] <dan_the_welder> Roooooobotz
[02:20:07] <DanielFalck> you need an EMC2 controlled frame jig : )
[02:20:39] <dan_the_welder> Robot TIG welder. Dumb frame jigs
[02:22:01] <dan_the_welder> I put the mig welder nozzle on the CNC gantry the other day, that was cool, wrote my name!
[02:22:42] <dan_the_welder> In weld bead. So tough
[02:28:17] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I been thinking about building a medium router table and mounting a Laser diode on it for panel engraving...
[02:34:49] <dan_the_welder> How many wats do you need to actually burn?
[02:35:31] <dan_the_welder> watts
[02:37:03] <SkinnYPup> Anyone see this when trying to boot Hardy 8.04? I only have one ata drive and it erroneously seeks sata drives sda-sdzz on bootup
[02:37:05] <SkinnYPup> http://imagebin.org/18281
[02:38:17] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Well the REAL laser I have used was a flash pumped Nd-YAg that could put out 60W but I am looking at a laser diode thats less than 5W
[02:38:58] <dan_the_welder> Would that work? I mean travelling real slow?
[02:40:47] <K`zan_emc> How much laser does one need for cutting ~ 1/8" stuff? How does one keep it from burning through the table?!?
[02:41:10] <K`zan_emc> Interesting idea though.
[02:41:38] <skunkworks> SkinnYPup: try irqpoll in the grub boot line. (don't remember if it is the exact error)
[02:41:41] <dan_the_welder> http://cgi.ebay.com/JDS-Uniphase-Laser-1145P-12mw-633nm_W0QQitemZ200223726263QQihZ010QQcategoryZ53141QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
[02:41:48] <dan_the_welder> too small to do anything?
[02:41:56] <K`zan_emc> looking
[02:43:06] <K`zan_emc> No idea at all what it takes.
[02:43:30] <K`zan_emc> I know the one I play with the cats with doesn't even warm your finger.
[02:43:41] <K`zan_emc> tip.
[02:45:23] <SkinnYPup> skunkworks: do you mean by hitting F6 option on the boot cd, then irqpoll at the end?
[02:45:29] <skunkworks> yes
[02:45:34] <skunkworks> make sure there is a space
[02:47:23] <SWPadnos> probably irq=poll
[02:49:08] <skunkworks> no
[02:49:10] <SkinnYPup> Hmm tried it both ways. still looking for sata
[02:49:40] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/livecd.errata
[02:50:35] <dan_the_welder> My cat loooooves the laser
[02:50:56] <SWPadnos> oh - I thought you were saying make sure there's a space between irq and poll :)
[02:51:38] <skunkworks> heh
[02:52:45] <SkinnYPup> The image was from vm, though it acts the same booted from a live cd. It will finish scanning to sdzz, the gui will load but the install script won't launch.
[02:54:17] <skunkworks> oh - that is beyond the scope of my knowledge. ;)
[02:58:12] <SkinnYPup> Thanks anyhow guys . Probably need to research my via chipset
[03:04:15] <dan_the_welder> http://www.synrad.com/ these guys make lasers and they had a power calculating applet on the site somewhere
[03:19:15] <dan_the_welder> Good Night all.
[03:38:17] <tomp3> well, i found there's 2 pages of hardware thats been tested on the wiki... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TestedHardware and http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[03:38:58] <tomp3> and two differnt ways of running the test ... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#RTAI_Latency_test and running some script called 'latency-test'
[03:39:06] <tomp3> and the lists are different
[03:39:36] <tomp3> and i managed to carefully avoid getting overruns on one system, not sure how, but it's been an hour now
[03:39:42] <tomp3> i think its sound related
[03:40:02] <DanielFalck> soundcard?
[03:41:11] <tomp3> dunno, but my usual listen to the goon show while i work has been avoided.. thats sound, streaming xmms and realplayer avoidance.
[03:42:23] <tomp3> i've even seen the posts of the little gui window showing how good some system was, and wondered where it came from, because the instructions i followed were terminal based.
[03:47:08] <tomp3> the Jetway system is now SrvoThrd MaxInterval1012511 MaxJtr 16006 BaseThrd MaxIntreval 49373 MaxJitr 25068
[03:48:54] <tomp3> with FFox, GLXGears full window 50fps, OOffice, Gimp, System Monitor sez 100%cpu, and i;m typing here. gui 'latency-test' may not tell me overruns, dunno.
[03:49:17] <tomp3> for over 1 hr, oh Mandella's OGG video looping too
[04:21:03] <tomp3> just copied a handful of multi-meg files and immediately saw huge increases. SrvoThrd MaxInterval 2284542 MaxJtr 1288037 BaseThrd MaxIntreval 1342493 MaxJitr 1318188
[04:21:39] <tomp3> maybe it's the caching of media
[04:21:53] <SWPadnos> ext3 kjournald journaling daemon
[04:22:11] <tomp3> ext3?
[04:22:22] <tomp3> oh you're asking which...
[04:22:26] <SWPadnos> hardy likely defaults to ext3
[04:22:28] <Gamma-X> i wanna make a jet engine, and strap it to a wing.... that id like to make lol
[04:23:02] <SWPadnos> no - ext3 has been the default since 5.x probably (I know it is on 6.06), and I found the journaling daemon to be a problem
[04:24:00] <tomp3> SWPadnos: how to tell? i just tried fdisk, but it doesnt say
[04:24:10] <SWPadnos> mount
[04:24:36] <cradek> I recommend against recommending removing ext3...
[04:25:00] <tomp3> ok, mount sez / and /boot are both ext3 ( thats all the partitions )
[04:25:06] <cradek> the latencies don't matter for machine tool work do they?
[04:25:17] <SWPadnos> yeah - ext2 is much more likely to lose data than ext3
[04:25:23] <cradek> yes much
[04:25:44] <SWPadnos> well, 1318188 is pretty long - 1.3 ms on a 1GHz machine
[04:25:51] <SWPadnos> even a bit long for the servo period
[04:26:12] <tomp3> if ext3 is ok, then maybe i have slow drive or i/f ?
[04:26:26] <SWPadnos> ext3 is safe, but it isn't great for RT
[04:26:39] <assargadon> I trying to make decision: I have a 8 software controlled leds on my controller. Should I support them in my driver?
[04:26:40] <SWPadnos> (at least on the one system I found that problem on)
[04:26:53] <SWPadnos> assargadon, yes, of course :)
[04:27:04] <SWPadnos> it should only be one or two extra writes
[04:27:25] <assargadon> 4 really
[04:27:45] <assargadon> ok :)
[04:28:00] <SWPadnos> you can make a separate write-leds function, so the time isn't wasted if someone doesn't want to use the LEDs
[04:28:17] <assargadon> SWPandos, no, I can't
[04:28:28] <fenn> um... who cares about file system integrity on a cnc machine
[04:28:43] <SWPadnos> anyone who has to configure it and install software
[04:28:50] <assargadon> they both should use 1 lptport, isn't it?
[04:29:27] <assargadon> but I can write leds every 10th cycle, for example
[04:31:22] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't do that, but you certainly can
[04:31:53] <SWPadnos> it may be confusing when there are problems that are intermittent, because the code takes 4 microseconds longer to run every once in a while
[04:32:13] <tomp3> maybe this is important. i looked at hdparm, and all the drives are now sdX under hardy, i get " HDIO_GET_UNMASKINTR failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device"
[04:32:18] <assargadon> ah, really
[04:33:34] <assargadon> next problem is pins.
[04:34:00] <assargadon> My controller works with 6 pins per axe
[04:34:04] <assargadon> *axis
[04:34:34] <assargadon> 4 of them is controller's output
[04:34:41] <assargadon> and 2 is controller input
[04:35:04] <assargadon> so it's 36 pins....
[04:35:11] <assargadon> and even little more
[04:35:33] <assargadon> should I use some kind of "bus"?
[04:35:48] <assargadon> u32, I mean :)
[04:36:28] <SWPadnos> the controllers pins and the HAL pins don't have to match exactly
[04:37:06] <SWPadnos> for example, if there's a step rate register, you would want to have a "velocity" HAL pin, not step and direction HAL pins (even though the step generator hardware has those)
[04:38:03] <SWPadnos> ok - bedtime for me now. good night.
[04:38:11] <assargadon> good night
[04:42:14] <fenn> anyone know how to change the number of a window in GNU screen?
[04:52:34] <tomp3> the hdparm invocation under hardy is "sudo hdparm -I /dev/sda", then i get no "Inappropriate ioctl for device" message
[05:08:02] <tomp3> apparently all your ide drives will become sdX under hardy, "The kernel developers have recently migrated the old IDE drivers to the new libata system, which causes IDE drives to appear as SCSI"
[05:09:10] <tomp3> and I cant reproduce the jitter increase by copying files, so the increase must be 'something else'
[05:15:42] <K`zan> still got z axis problems, calling it a night and will jump on it again tomorrow or monday. Thanks for all the help folks, MUCH appreciated!
[05:16:47] <tomp3> g'nite
[05:20:05] <tomp3> i cant reproduce the error now, have all those apps plus realplayer on BBC7 now, have been 100% cpu for hours now. servo thread MaxInt 1013357 MaxJtr 17158, base thrd MaxInt 50519 MaxJtr 26214. "the Journal of Irreproducable results "
[05:24:15] <tomp3> darn, the numbers dont budge with bbc7 AND a youtube video, the numbers dont change at all, the video's choppy, and the keyboard sluggish, but the numbers dont change... i dont understand ( <- understatement )
[05:32:28] <tomp3> Xorg is 66% of cpu, gnomesystemmonitor 2%, realplay 14%, firefox 12% & the rest changes erraticly. Xorg is the hog always
[05:34:03] <tomp3> let it crank overnite, bye! & thx too
[05:36:29] <K`zan> Night folks
[06:37:41] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Tossed a 2nd cpu in my WXP box I use for torrents - WXP took a dump - endless reboots - I added a 2nd CPU with W2k and it just refused to utilize it - with each release M$ just gets less stable. If it were not for the "Serverworks" chip set which Linux hates I would not be stuck with M$.
[14:05:47] <tomp3> the 9am next morning, after running 'latency-test' all night, not a single digit difference in values since 1am.... servo thread MaxInt 1014401 MaxJtr 17896, base thrd MaxInt 50519 MaxJtr 26214.
[14:06:48] <tomp3> dunno why, tho i am using 'latency-test' ( the cmd) vs http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#RTAI_Latency_test.
[14:07:02] <tomp3> so, will try the latter now
[14:08:10] <tomp3> i have 4 desktops covered with apps, its hard to find the editor, the 'latency-test' and the terminal.
[14:30:06] <tomp3> the 'other' method "cd /usr/realtime*/testsuite/kern/latency; ./run", shows similar numbers for brief 30 min test.
[14:30:06] <tomp3> RTH| lat min| ovl min| lat avg| lat max| ovl max| overruns
[14:30:06] <tomp3> RTD| -1548| -1971| -43| 7731| 22777| 0
[14:30:06] <tomp3> maybe the problem is thermal, i did move an xtra fan during this, will need to add lmsensors pkg & remove the fan
[14:32:55] <tomp3> and the cpu load capture http://imagebin.org/18304
[14:47:00] <BigJohnT> what's up Gamma-X:
[15:02:49] <rayh> Hey BigJohnT got the package.
[15:12:46] <BigJohnT> hey Rayh cool
[15:12:54] <BigJohnT> did you plug it in yet?
[15:17:55] <rayh> No just looked it over.
[15:18:32] <rayh> I visited with the HEDSS company at the Beijing tool show two years ago. They were looking for entry to the US then.
[15:18:50] <rayh> Nice product. Really professional feeling handwheel.
[15:18:50] <BigJohnT> is that who makes the pendant?
[15:18:56] <rayh> Yep.
[15:19:41] <BigJohnT> I just plugged it into a spare parallal port and powered it up off the computers 5v
[15:20:09] <rayh> Looks like it would be easy enough with your wiki page.
[15:20:18] <BigJohnT> thanks
[15:20:26] <rayh> Good job on that BTW.
[15:20:31] <BigJohnT> thanks
[15:20:53] <rayh> http://www.hedss.com.cn/ehtml/main.asp
[15:21:26] <rayh> This is the same encoder pickup module used by quite a few low cost encoder makers.
[15:22:40] <BigJohnT> something in a container with a short cord would be better for outside the pc...
[15:22:52] <rayh> The interface card seems simple enough.
[15:22:58] <rayh> Yes I agree.
[15:24:01] <rayh> Thanks for the loan of that for the fest.
[15:24:04] <BigJohnT> oh, the enable button is wired through a N/C contact so if you have an axis selected it will move when you turn the encoder
[15:24:41] <BigJohnT> n/p it was on loan to me by CNC4PC just to write up how to make it work with EMC2
[15:26:28] <BigJohnT> bbl
[15:27:00] <rayh> Is that enable switch only an internal connection - ie it does not go to the parport?
[15:30:00] <DanielFalck> good morning rayh
[15:34:21] <rayh> Hi Dan
[15:34:56] <renesis> it shouldnt be hard to make relays to parport pins, right?
[15:35:10] <renesis> like for stepper drive and spindle engage
[15:35:30] <renesis> *map
[15:36:07] <renesis> cuz yeah ive fucked up a few time, disabled the steppers but forgot to turn em off in axis
[15:36:20] <BigJohnT> rayh: yes it is internal
[15:36:24] <renesis> then i come back and try and jog the shit and fuckup my location =(
[15:36:53] <renesis> i should try in new install
[15:37:13] <renesis> ive never had to mess with the pin configs default always worked fine for me =(
[15:38:37] <rayh> DanielFalck, I was reading the nostalgia list the other day. You started posting there about 10 days before I did.
[15:38:48] <rayh> But you were way ahead of me with running real machines.
[15:40:14] <DanielFalck> wow- was that 1999?
[15:41:07] <renesis> omg old
[15:41:42] <DanielFalck> EMC has been around a long time
[15:41:46] <renesis> * renesis was like going to alot of parties doing too many drugs didnt know wtf a cnc was in 99
[15:42:51] <DanielFalck> I learned about cnc in 1987 when I saw a CNC router making guitar bodies
[15:43:08] <DanielFalck> that's when I said - "I need one of those!" : )
[15:43:49] <rayh> I started repairing CNC in 79
[15:44:25] <rayh> and said I gotta have one of those.
[15:44:48] <DanielFalck> is this real time latency problem something that we should all be worried about?
[15:45:00] <DanielFalck> like for future emc machines?
[15:45:24] <rayh> In 79 a memory card cost $4K exchange so I was no where near getting a whole control.
[15:46:17] <rayh> Re Latency. There has been a lot of talk about Linux not handling well the real time stuff.
[15:47:18] <rayh> And some mobos have interrupts below the layer we can reach with current real time scheduling.
[15:47:54] <rayh> Most desktops work okay.
[15:48:50] <rayh> A lot of the proprietary drivers for things like video cards and wifi cards interfere with real time scheduling.
[15:49:20] <rayh> Because those device makers are trying for gaming and need real low latencies for their own work.
[15:49:56] <rayh> Some sound drivers have the same sorts of issues because the ear is a great real time test device.
[15:50:51] <rayh> IMO we are not at the point where we begin to loose the software generation of real time signals.
[15:51:15] <DanielFalck> that's good
[15:51:41] <rayh> I did read something recently that talked about shifting time and processor critical stuff to fpga cards.
[15:51:54] <renesis> heheh @ 3d cnc gfx cards and soundcards
[15:52:01] <renesis> oooh
[15:52:05] <renesis> thats neat
[15:52:38] <rayh> Yep. Just gotta have the latest, fastest, toys.
[15:52:57] <renesis> meh, prob not even, average fpga is hella powerful
[15:53:05] <rayh> Up until a very few years ago most CNC controls were still running the Z80 chip.
[15:53:31] <renesis> heh, yeah when i went to FADAL, they had some open controller boxes, everything was mostly DIP and thru hole parts
[15:53:35] <renesis> bigass board
[15:53:45] <renesis> just looked so 80s
[15:53:49] <rayh> Exactly.
[15:53:52] <renesis> like my NES board or something
[15:54:44] <renesis> but yeah if you got some wiki thing or duscussion place about that, id be interested
[15:55:17] <renesis> introducing myself to FPGA and schema entry was pretty much plan for part of summer
[15:55:58] <renesis> else like my discrete digital skills gonna turn to mush, i never need that stuff with microcontrollers
[15:56:22] <rayh> The boards like the Mesa 5i20 fit pretty well with the EMC way of things because you can study and change the software that runs on it.
[15:57:07] <rayh> And as we see, that software can become a part of EMC rather than something separate from it.
[15:57:15] <renesis> yeah totally
[15:57:27] <renesis> fpga is like putty
[15:57:30] <rayh> Although microprocessors out there can be setup to do the same sort of thing.
[15:57:40] <renesis> yeah but not as fast
[15:58:20] <rayh> It would be really neat to be able to compile a few HAL components like stepgen and pass them to an outboard micro and have em run.
[15:58:23] <renesis> common controllers dont get over 100MHz alot, and then theyre just running alot of overhead cuz they run like processors
[15:58:33] <renesis> yeah that sounds neat
[15:59:03] <renesis> just send it like coordinates and arc info and have it pump out pulses
[15:59:09] <rayh> The original EMC idea was distributed processing.
[15:59:20] <renesis> like, you can do that with dumb logic, prob way faster than a proc
[15:59:53] <rayh> In fact the test at GM Powertrain in Detroit used a split-buss design with rt shared memory running on both halves.
[16:00:11] <renesis> heh, know about propeller chips?
[16:00:24] <rayh> ??
[16:00:35] <renesis> like 8 parallel cores, 80MHz i think, around there
[16:00:45] <renesis> shared mem and gio, but almost no other peripherals
[16:00:49] <tomp3> rayh would step generation be one of things that was distributed? seperable from the device doing TP?
[16:01:00] <renesis> so timing and int handling and task management prob eat three of your procs
[16:01:14] <rayh> They were running servos so no base thread like we have now.
[16:01:36] <rayh> Motion and TP was on one side of the VME and all the IO was on the other.
[16:01:41] <tomp3> ah, is stepping a creation of the post-nist generation?
[16:01:55] <rayh> We still suffer from that split in the task planner.
[16:02:00] <rayh> Yes.
[16:02:06] <renesis> nist was prob afraid of open loop cnc =D
[16:02:14] <renesis> because its not so sane =(
[16:02:41] <rayh> Right and NIST was not scrimping for cash then.
[16:03:24] <rayh> I thing the split buss VME they used was near a $10k device.
[16:03:35] <renesis> hahaha, nice
[16:03:53] <rayh> I wish that they had not lost the IO software.
[16:03:58] <renesis> FPGA are like $12, low end =)
[16:04:05] <renesis> lost it?
[16:04:27] <rayh> I heard about it from a couple of guys. They had images of the machine from several sides and the switches would light up on the display.
[16:05:52] <rayh> When I asked about getting that software, the guy just pointed down the hall and mumbled something that suggested that code was not available.
[16:06:05] <renesis> heh
[16:06:15] <renesis> bad backup habits?
[16:06:37] <rayh> He made me understand that I didn't want to peruse it any further.
[16:07:05] <tomp3> re: latency on Jetway PT800DBP, r1.0
[16:07:05] <tomp3> this am i moved the jetway system back to work, and immed got overruns. cannot reproduce tho.
[16:07:05] <tomp3> i ran Realplayer on bbc7, and opened a flash site 'praystation', immediately got over 100K amx jitter using 'latency-test'.
[16:07:05] <tomp3> i closed 'latency-test' and ffox and realplayer, re did the scenario, no problems now :(
[16:07:05] <tomp3> ( irreproducable results)
[16:07:05] <DanielFalck> I wonder if Fred P. ever checks up on EMC these days?
[16:07:40] <tomp3> he has some newr publications on realtime & STEP, like 2008
[16:07:45] <rayh> Oh yea.
[16:08:14] <rayh> I talked with him a bit back to get info on what the Vehicle folk were doing with real time.
[16:08:32] <DanielFalck> tomp3: maybe flash then
[16:09:04] <DanielFalck> rayh: Vehicle as in Darpa challenge?
[16:09:19] <tomp3> DanielFalck: io agree, but the stop & restart didnt re-create... wait new system, maybe auto flush isnt on...
[16:09:23] <tomp3> i agree
[16:09:35] <rayh> They didn't join that challenge but they are involved in another challenge.
[16:10:10] <rayh> Last time I was there, Will took me back to a restricted area and showed me the little robotic vehicle.
[16:10:31] <rayh> Three processors including vision
[16:10:41] <rayh> Same machine for about ten groups.
[16:11:09] <rayh> Fantastic stuff.
[16:11:46] <rayh> I was interested in the real time work because they had an HTML layer for communication.
[16:12:03] <rayh> You probably saw some of that in the older installs.
[16:13:46] <tomp3> DanielFalck: the auto flush cache/pswd/forms wasnt on, now is, but cant reproduce.... dunno
[16:14:05] <tomp3> rayh: an html layer for comm? between processes?
[16:16:20] <rayh> For com to HMI
[16:17:01] <rayh> Web page interface to EMC control.
[16:17:09] <rayh> Including rt
[16:18:41] <tomp3> i like web pages for hmi, that end doesnt need rt itself
[16:19:15] <rayh> True but what they were doing would comm into and out of rcslib.
[16:19:28] <rayh> Somewhat like halcmd does for our HAL.
[16:20:11] <DanielFalck> rayh: remember matt's java interface?
[16:20:20] <DanielFalck> on his web site
[16:20:40] <tomp3> re: latency-tests, on both systems with install from 8.04/emc live cd, shutdown leaves Ubu logo and empty progress bar (like most W98 machines... didnt quite fully shutdown) hd powered doen, i heard it.
[16:21:18] <jepler> tomp3: yes, emc never does a "power off". power off requires acpi, which is disabled because it hurts RT performance on (some) machines
[16:21:34] <jepler> that is, the rtai-patched kernels that linuxcnc.org packages don't "power off"
[16:21:51] <renesis> then how come you dont disable xscreensaver =(
[16:21:53] <rayh> Yep.
[16:22:13] <renesis> heheh im still running gnome and whatever settings are on the livecd
[16:22:37] <renesis> come back to my cnc and glxgears or flying toaster all up on my monitor =\
[16:23:28] <renesis> (heheh, xp/mach couldnt do screensavers or monitor blanking without dwelling the machine)
[16:24:43] <renesis> i wonder which jetway i got (was $30 open box thing from newegg)
[16:24:45] <rayh> Yuck. "That's going to leave a mark."
[16:25:10] <rayh> What form factor is it?
[16:25:22] <renesis> emc is pretty amazing at keeping priorities straight
[16:25:32] <renesis> um, sec ill find the part bumber
[16:25:41] <renesis> its normal atx, or maybe a miniatx
[16:26:05] <rayh> socket for proc?
[16:26:09] <renesis> my socket a think bricked on me
[16:26:13] <renesis> um, am2 i think?
[16:26:33] <renesis> i got a $30 sempron for it, getting order page now
[16:27:16] <renesis> AMD Sempron LE-1100 Sparta 1.9GHz Socket AM2 45W Single-Core Processor Model SDH1100DEBOX - Retail
[16:27:20] <renesis> $33
[16:27:34] <renesis> JetWay JM26GT3-SVP AM2 NVIDIA NF6100-405 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard $24
[16:27:51] <rayh> Nice.
[16:27:58] <renesis> and 2x512MB kingston ddr800 for $23
[16:28:06] <renesis> yeah im a big fan of open box from newegg
[16:28:16] <renesis> like, at worst the box is kinda smashed up
[16:28:26] <renesis> usually its just missing the shrinkwrap
[16:28:59] <renesis> ive never gotten anything missing hardware or driver CDs, like they say is likely
[16:29:12] <renesis> hardware like dongles, plates, etc
[16:29:56] <renesis> also rosewill stallion power supply for $32, 400W
[16:30:28] <tomp3> jepler: thx, i didnt know that was the 8.04 case, ii it worked on 6.06 ( which i believe)then i have made some diff on the bios settings ( i know what i changed, but this is evidence )
[16:30:40] <renesis> nice finish on those, big open grate back panel, big fan, all the cables nylon and shrinkwrapped nice
[16:30:59] <renesis> the parts on the psu board look all spaced out sanely
[16:31:43] <renesis> i have to tear down cnc and retune and reinstall, ubuntu 6 doesnt see any of my hardware, its basically core system, usb, and parport right now
[16:32:07] <jepler> tomp3: if linuxcnc.org's kernel for 6.06 actually powered off any machines that's news to me
[16:32:11] <renesis> which is cool, does rt fine, but ethport would be nice
[16:32:45] <renesis> yeah im pretty sure it just does that shutdown system, kick it waiting for button thing
[16:33:07] <renesis> * renesis doesnt really turn off his cnc enough to remember
[16:40:01] <tomp3> jepler hard to test now that ive re-installed, all i can say i never saw that feature before, and i remember the W98 hang at shutdown well. so if it was supposed to, then ignore my observation, its unprovable
[16:49:03] <tomp3> jepler: cross talk and subtle differences again... i bet 6.06 did not shutdown the hdwr, but it didnt stick at some logo'd screen. the screen would be blank on 6.06 and i would shut down the machine. on 8.04 there is a logo'd screen that does not go away till i hold down the kill button.
[16:52:03] <renesis> you can prob hit a key to make the splash go away
[16:52:54] <renesis> not positive, but if you can disable the plash you can see if it got stuck handling something or if the new livecd just doesnt blank the screen before waiting for you to shut it down
[17:04:01] <tomp3> re: latency, these tests may be of use System|Preferences|System Profiler and Benchmarks|Benchmarks
[17:13:24] <tomp3> re latency: on the not yet documented SOYO system,
[17:13:24] <tomp3> it immediately gets bad with any disk access.
[17:13:24] <tomp3> eg load a pdf, open a text file, run a new app--
[17:13:24] <tomp3> all get overrruns.
[17:13:24] <tomp3> but if the app is up, or the txt is open, or the pdf is viewable, you can move scroll w/o problem.
[17:13:24] <tomp3> else near 13829256 max jitter BANG!
[17:14:56] <tomp3> yeh, something not right, 8.04 makes all scsi, yet mount shows hdcX
[17:15:36] <gefink> tomp3: use you 8.04?
[17:18:40] <gefink> i had a duron700 box which run under 6 without problem, but 8.04 makes such IDE problem. Not solved for now
[17:18:42] <rayh> 8.04 shows the drives here as sdax
[17:19:12] <rayh> But I've not had any problems with them.
[17:22:44] <tomp3> gefink: yes 8.04, and ray yes, they SHOULD be sdx, i just checked bios and removed the cd (only 1 device now on ide0) and rebooting that box
[17:23:25] <tomp3> nope /dev/hdaX shown by mount
[17:24:30] <gefink> tomp3: tried you ubuntu6
[17:26:43] <tomp3> gefink i have before, but this effort really is looking at 8.04 ( else i'm alll day changing os :)
[17:28:06] <tomp3> and the good news is that now ( 1 hd on ide0) , i no longer get immed overruns open apps, opening pdfs , now to hammer on it, i gotta pull the eth0 cable and move it to that box
[17:28:08] <tomp3> bbl
[17:32:23] <tom1> ok, pidgin didnt phase it :)
[17:32:36] <tom1> using a belkin usb to eth too, and plugging in a usb 'jumpdisk' didnt make it blink
[17:33:52] <gefink> tom1 I think about remove the CDRom and try my d700 again
[17:38:03] <tom1> gefink: i wouldnt do anything based on these infos until i can put the cd BACK in and see the error re-produce ;)
[17:39:29] <gefink> tom1: I tried much things, but nothing realy solved the problem. Also testing are a view minutes :-)
[17:46:13] <tom1> that was some doppleganager me, but here, i got good stuff
[17:47:12] <tom1> i downloade and installed realplayer, had it test my connection and am now listening to BBC7 stream with glxgears, ffox, pdf viewer and NO CHANGES TO MAX JITTER woohoo!
[17:48:20] <tom1> re: latency on SOYO box srvo thread MaxIntrvl 1014076 MaxJtr 17571 base thread MaxIntrvl 51007 MaxJt 26702
[17:50:01] <tom1> gefink: if its not difficult to try, go for it. I suggest you check the grub/lilo if you use susch a booter, pulling out a unit may change your device numbers. please be careful
[17:51:14] <gefink> tom1 No problem . ii use linux since suse5.0
[17:54:20] <tom1> now have realplayer11 on bbc7 ( a a slug of a keyboard, must be 150% cpu:) and youtube and glxgears, pdf viewer... this looks promising :)
[18:04:38] <tom1> re: latency before i shut down to document BIOS http://imagebin.org/18317
[18:06:56] <skunkworks> tom1: what is the computer?
[18:07:21] <tom1> when i get shut down , i'll report it ( hard to see in there :)
[18:23:08] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT, holla brotha
[18:23:46] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT, i paid my dads wifes friend 50 bucks to derust my machine with kroll oil and spray it with a lube lol 50 bucks!!! the whole thing!
[18:28:24] <Vq^> Gamma-X: what currency?
[18:28:33] <Gamma-X> us
[18:28:44] <Vq^> ok
[18:29:30] <Vq^> sounds like a fairly good deal
[18:37:25] <tom1> re: latency, still good, 28115 MaxJtr on srvo, 27630 on base
[18:37:25] <tom1> its a SOYO SY-7VEM, socket 370 P3 800Mhz, Award Bios v6.00PG,
[18:37:25] <tom1> Matrox MGA 2064W (Millenium) with 8192Kb ram, running vesa,
[18:37:25] <tom1> 512M ram on mobo, IDE HD WDC WD300AB-00BPA1 30G, no floppy, no cd,
[18:37:25] <tom1> and no sound "No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found."
[18:37:26] <tom1> dont understand the sound msg, its enabled in bios.
[18:37:28] <tom1> now adding info to wiki
[18:39:08] <tom1> the change that made it good was to remove the cdrw (ASUS 52x32x52) from ide0, and put hd onto ide0 (jmpr problems forced that hd on1 and cd on 0 issue)
[18:39:49] <skunkworks> some machines I have tested.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/
[18:43:45] <tom1> skunkworks: nice, if not done already, i'll add the 2 with latency-test to one of the wiki pages
[18:44:15] <tom1> which wiki page should be used? which test procedure should be followed?
[18:45:46] <skunkworks> sure - I have not done that yet.
[18:45:58] <skunkworks> (those 2)
[18:46:41] <tom1> wiki pages for test procedures: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting or the script 'latency-test' ? the results are not easily comparable.
[18:48:36] <tom1> wiki pages for results: based on 'latency-test ' -> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test based on command line http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TestedHardware
[18:49:08] <skunkworks> from my experience - the latency-test numbers are just a little bit higher than the rtai latency test.
[18:49:47] <skunkworks> I assume as the latency-test has 2 threads (servo and base) it is more applicable to emc
[18:49:53] <tom1> which should we adopt as the test method ( that will determine which page to update with new system infos)
[18:50:40] <tom1> i 'spose the 'latency-test' s the new way, so I'm going that route
[18:50:49] <skunkworks> I have been using the gui latency-test
[18:51:09] <skunkworks> it is the easiest to use. imho
[18:51:32] <tom1> tahts what i'm referring to also, agreed, easy to use
[18:51:50] <tom1> oh, life is good :)
[18:52:01] <skunkworks> keeps getting better and better :)
[18:55:16] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Ray - Thanks for posting the link to the BDI CD artwork - To bad we don't have a good monochrome rendition that would work on lightscribe drives.
[18:57:21] <alex_joni> SkullWorks_PGAB: I think I did some lightscribe thing once
[18:57:43] <alex_joni> let me see if I can find it
[18:58:14] <SkullWorks_PGAB> JMK had a chips he used at the FEST like 2 yrs back
[18:58:37] <jmkasunich> I did?
[18:58:43] <rayh> You bet. Glad to help generate new ideas. We could run it through Gimp and make a monochrome of it. Can even twiddle with the gray scale there.
[18:59:04] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/dropbox/lightscribe/
[18:59:38] <skunkworks> that looks nice
[18:59:39] <SkullWorks_PGAB> yeah - you sent it to me - and I have it on a hdd in a sys thats packed away in my motorhome at the moment.
[19:00:22] <alex_joni> SkullWorks_PGAB: however, I've still to find lightscribe CDs
[19:00:31] <alex_joni> I didn't see _any_ yet
[19:01:46] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Can't find media locally?
[19:02:13] <alex_joni> SkullWorks_PGAB: nope, only DVDs
[19:02:23] <alex_joni> do you have lightscribe CDs ?
[19:03:03] <alex_joni> hmm.. it seems they do exist, but not over here .. maybe DVDs are too cheap compared, so no-one buys CDs
[19:08:27] <SkullWorks_PGAB> yeah - HP seems to keep making them and I find them on sale rather often
[19:09:17] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Actually It seems harder to find decent priced Lightscribe DVD media locally.
[19:41:22] <tom1> skunkworks: wiki updated, could you add your info for the vid card & driver, other than that they're entered already
[19:42:05] <tom1> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[20:43:33] <toastyde1th> i would like some damn water ice
[20:44:09] <toastyde1th> oh yessss
[20:44:12] <toastyde1th> ty google maps
[20:51:10] <fenn> we can tow an iceberg out by tuesday next week
[21:36:48] <fenn> since a lot of people have DVD+-R's and not CD-R's maybe we should provide a ~700MB DVD image instead (in addition?)
[21:44:52] <JymmmEMC> you can burn an iso to whatever media you like.
[21:54:59] <tom1> re: latency tests, on my SOYO system, i've now gotten the cdrw back ( swapped ide ), have no overrruns
[21:55:06] <tom1>  but couldnt get sound to work. Since i had installed UBU8.04 and THEN installed emc,
[21:55:14] <tom1> i had the option of booting to rtai or generic.
[21:55:14] <tom1> in Generic, sound works, in rtai sound finds no devices. Onboard VIA 82XXX sound chip.
[21:56:00] <tom1> at least the error is isolated now
[21:58:21] <tom1> i went to submit a bug report according to the wiki info on http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Trackers
[21:58:58] <tom1> the link there to register gets a 404 error
[21:59:10] <tom1> so no bug report for now
[22:09:54] <tom1> bug report done ( i had an account already :)
[22:21:09] <skunkworks> You should ask alex_joni - I think he had a suplimental driver package. or whatever you would call it.
[22:24:30] <tom1> great, thx! then everything would be 'coolsville'
[22:25:27] <tom1> i'm pretty happy right now, it looked like emc capable systems were rare, noe they're common :)
[22:25:41] <skunkworks> now?
[22:25:57] <skunkworks> I have had very few that tanked
[22:25:58] <tom1> s/nowe/now
[22:38:42] <K`zan> linuxcnc.org
[22:41:57] <K`zan> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems
[22:55:26] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[23:19:57] <K`zan_emc> Bullsugar, move does NOT exceed machine max on Z 0.5 is well between -1.8 and 0. WTF
[23:21:04] <LawrenceG> try z -0.5
[23:21:31] <K`zan_emc> Yes, but it goes in the wrong direction - reverse table size in stepconf and nothing works...
[23:22:12] <K`zan_emc> Rapids are also WAY too rapid for this thing, Guess I need to establish a rational rate and use G1 for rapids that way.
[23:23:50] <K`zan_emc> for Z plus is up and minus is down toward the table. If I have my limits set in stepconf at 0 and 1.8 then something is backwards.
[23:24:02] <LawrenceG> having fun I see..... it will all be clear shortly. You can easily reduce rapids for each axis by setting the max velocity under each axis (try 0.5"/sec)
[23:24:34] <K`zan_emc> I *assume* people use + for away from table and - to go toward it?!?
[23:24:50] <LawrenceG> I do
[23:24:55] <K`zan_emc> Ah, I see, will change that, thanks very much!
[23:26:17] <LawrenceG> think of z as altitude..... Iusually set my work 0 at the rough material surface.... all machining is in the - zone, although I always forget to drill to -ve numbers
[23:26:52] <K`zan_emc> table travel (just changed it to) 0 to -1.8
[23:27:00] <K`zan_emc> Reversed from prev.
[23:27:24] <K`zan_emc> lets see if that works.
[23:27:51] <LawrenceG> Are you getting toasty weather in Seattle today.... it sure is beautiful on Vancouver Island?
[23:28:37] <K`zan_emc> I would just be bloody lovely as hell if *anything* do do with EMC was copyable on the screen, grrr
[23:29:16] <DanielFalck> hi K'zan_emc, I'm in Portland
[23:29:26] <K`zan_emc> Scabattle here :)
[23:29:40] <jmkasunich> K`zan_emc: what do you mean by "copyable on the screen"?
[23:30:23] <K`zan_emc> Well, now what? with a table size specified as above either 0.5 or -0.5 is out of limits. Sigh.
[23:30:42] <jmkasunich> the numbers in the ini file are _machine_ coordinates
[23:30:44] <K`zan_emc> Being able to drag the mouse across a dialog and have it copy to the pasted bugger.
[23:31:04] <jmkasunich> the numbers on your screen and in your program are probably not machine coordinates - usually there are offsets in effect
[23:31:32] <K`zan_emc> Lemme run it through the "get it all together" gcode again :).
[23:31:47] <K`zan_emc> G92.1
[23:31:52] <K`zan_emc> sugh.
[23:31:55] <K`zan_emc> LOL
[23:31:57] <K`zan_emc> SIGH
[23:33:55] <K`zan_emc> G53 G0 X0Y0Z0 G92.1 G54 G10 L2 P1 X0Y0Z0 G49
[23:34:23] <K`zan_emc> nope :)
[23:34:27] <jmkasunich> nope?
[23:34:37] <K`zan_emc> can't run it all as one line.
[23:34:41] <jmkasunich> oh
[23:35:16] <K`zan_emc> tow g codes usef from same modal group (typed in since the message is uncopyable)
[23:35:31] <K`zan_emc> anyway, lets see if that makes a difference...
[23:35:53] <K`zan_emc> Program exceeds machoine maximum on axis Z
[23:35:58] <K`zan_emc> (typed :)
[23:36:07] <jmkasunich> that string of commands will get you at machine zero, and make the DRO read machine coordinates
[23:36:22] <K`zan_emc> Gonna go out on the balcony and scream a while.
[23:36:27] <jmkasunich> you almost certainly don't want to run your program in machine coordinages
[23:36:31] <jmkasunich> screaming rarely helps
[23:36:39] <K`zan_emc> Makes me feel much better :)
[23:37:16] <K`zan_emc> Well, ignorance abounds, but I can't imagine what I would want to run it on coordinate wise other than what the machines acutally is.
[23:37:28] <jmkasunich> when you are done screaming, we can talk about it
[23:37:52] <K`zan_emc> Ok, bbiab, a shot of Jack at this point is also welcome :)
[23:38:20] <jmkasunich> coordinate systems can be confusing, but there is usually an "ah-ha!" moment, and from then on its really pretty straightforward
[23:41:44] <jmkasunich> first topic:
[23:41:54] <jmkasunich> why you don't want to use machine coordinates for part programs
[23:43:22] <jmkasunich> you would like to be able to put the zero in your program at some logical spot on your part
[23:43:32] <jmkasunich> maybe a corner, or the center of a hole, or whatever
[23:43:58] <jmkasunich> but machine zero is always the same place on the machine - the odds of you being able to mount the part so that its zero matches machine zero aren't good
[23:46:18] <jmkasunich> say something when you get back - I feel foolish talking to myself
[23:46:34] <DanielFalck> but we're all ears : )
[23:47:29] <jmkasunich> you already know this stuff
[23:47:45] <jmkasunich> I'm looking for an ah-ha! moment
[23:47:57] <DanielFalck> my shop is at 92 degrees at the moment. had to come it to cool down
[23:48:13] <jmkasunich> balmy 55ish here
[23:48:21] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure if summer is ever gonna arrive
[23:48:41] <Jessica> Hey all. Anyone ever made a vacuum hold down table?
[23:48:44] <DanielFalck> I talked to my mom, in Marinette Wi. It was snowing this afternoon
[23:49:01] <DanielFalck> hi Jessica, yes I've done a little with vacuum
[23:49:02] <jmkasunich> I think cradek made a table for doing PC boards
[23:49:32] <DanielFalck> I've used aluminum, steel, and maple laminate for the table before
[23:49:47] <Jessica> any photos, Dan?
[23:49:49] <DanielFalck> used 'Magnalock' gasket/seal
[23:50:00] <DanielFalck> sorry, it was at a previous place of work
[23:50:10] <Jessica> were you pleased with the results?
[23:50:24] <DanielFalck> seemed to work well for wood routing
[23:50:33] <Jessica> hmmm...
[23:51:00] <DanielFalck> usually milled/routed a 1/4" wide slot and then pushed in 5/16" x 3/8" 'magnalock' gasket
[23:51:03] <jmkasunich> Jessica: what are you trying to hold? wood, metal, printed circuit boards?
[23:51:04] <DanielFalck> into the groove
[23:51:06] <Jessica> what did you use to mask off the unused parts of the table? paper? rubber?
[23:51:07] <DanielFalck> wood
[23:51:43] <DanielFalck> seal off the grid with the gasketing, put earplugs in the extra holes
[23:51:44] <Jessica> jmk, I'm milling wood, plastic, and foam
[23:52:18] <DanielFalck> you could do a grid of grooves or make a purpose routed shape that fits under the piece that you're cutting out
[23:52:41] <DanielFalck> we usually did dedicated shapes to hold things that we cut out thousands of times
[23:52:49] <Jessica> ok
[23:53:12] <Jessica> jmk, I'll also be doing PCBs at some point
[23:53:12] <DanielFalck> double stick tape works wonders too
[23:53:24] <DanielFalck> carpet tape for the home shop
[23:53:46] <Jessica> dan, what about dust getting into the table and the pump?
[23:54:06] <DanielFalck> you have to blow the parts off before you release them from the vacuum
[23:54:13] <Jessica> ok
[23:54:15] <DanielFalck> get all the dust away first
[23:54:32] <DanielFalck> put a ball valve on the line
[23:54:57] <Jessica> I've got about 5 Gast vacuum pumps lying around. I'm thinking of using one of them.
[23:55:07] <DanielFalck> do it
[23:55:22] <DanielFalck> it's mostly just plumbing
[23:55:52] <Jessica> I wonder if anyone has done an "instructable" on building one. I'll look
[23:56:18] <DanielFalck> check out the woodworking books on router tables, routers and such
[23:56:42] <DanielFalck> fine woodworking probably has something on their web site too
[23:56:47] <DanielFalck> the magazine
[23:56:58] <Jessica> *smiles*
[23:57:01] <Jessica> thanks Dan
[23:57:07] <DanielFalck> your welcome