#emc | Logs for 2008-05-10

[00:03:03] <eric_U> I need to wipe this system and install new, it's getting really slow
[00:05:04] <jmkasunich> windows?
[00:05:08] <eric_U> linux
[00:05:20] <jmkasunich> ick - thats not supposed to happen
[00:05:37] <eric_U> well, fedora says that changing versions might not be a happy thing
[00:05:50] <eric_U> I updated from 6 to 7
[00:06:12] <eric_U> or 5 to 7, I forget
[00:09:35] <eric_U> ok, so it takes most of 5 minutes to download a file from gmail, asks if I want to open it with archive manager, then when it does finally download, it says "archive type not supported"
[00:35:55] <toastydeath> there was a realllly nice CNC leblond lathe
[00:36:02] <toastydeath> looked like early 70's hardware
[00:36:12] <toastydeath> on ebay or some other site
[00:36:33] <toastydeath> i almost creamed my pants but cried instead when i remembered i live in an apartment
[00:40:22] <archivist> heh move to ground floor or buy lathe and sneak indoors in pieces
[00:43:00] <toastydeath> nah it was a pretty decently sized lathe
[00:43:12] <toastydeath> 20" swing, 60" centers
[00:43:17] <ds2> nothing enough sheets of 4x8 ply can't solve, right? ;)
[00:43:27] <toastydeath> lol, truer words have never been spoken
[00:44:08] <toastydeath> it was a project lathe that someone ripped the control off of
[00:44:11] <toastydeath> everything else works
[00:46:39] <toastydeath> oh hey and a Fanuc 21i on ebay too
[00:48:25] <toastydeath> a match made in heaven =(
[00:48:43] <toastydeath> a leblond with a 21i hanging off it would be like owning a classic ferrari
[00:51:41] <toastydeath> i've been digging into the manual of a control we retrofitted onto a machine awhile back
[00:51:46] <toastydeath> there is some darn neat stuff in there
[00:52:50] <BeIdentityCrisis> Hello all. Does anyone here know if the Griffen PowerMate USB Knob ever got worked out to do anything useful with EMC2/Axis?
[00:53:55] <BeIdentityCrisis> Google shows me lot's of conversation on the subject... but nothing conclusive.
[00:54:43] <toastydeath> i'm not ignoring you, i just don't know anything about emc
[00:55:03] <BeIdentityCrisis> :) why ya here then??
[00:55:09] <BeIdentityCrisis> jk of course
[00:55:39] <BeIdentityCrisis> actually, I recognize you from my googling on the subject
[00:55:46] <toastydeath> uh oh
[00:55:52] <toastydeath> is that a good thing or a bad thing
[00:55:57] <BeIdentityCrisis> you show up in IRC logs around the phrase
[00:56:18] <toastydeath> oh
[00:56:45] <BeIdentityCrisis> Ha! you actually brought it up...
[00:56:48] <BeIdentityCrisis> 02:26:37 <dmess> not the one im thinking of
[00:56:48] <BeIdentityCrisis> 02:26:40 <toastydeath> hm
[00:56:48] <BeIdentityCrisis> 02:28:00 <dmess> it was no bigger than a large old calculator..
[00:56:49] <BeIdentityCrisis> 02:28:33 <dmess> with the joystick in the center...
[00:56:49] <BeIdentityCrisis> 02:28:44 <fenn> well... /me gives up googling for "HID knob"
[00:56:49] <BeIdentityCrisis> 02:28:44 <toastydeath> hmm, never seen something like that
[00:56:51] <BeIdentityCrisis> 02:29:03 <toastydeath> fenn: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powermate
[00:57:04] <toastydeath> oh, i guess i did mention it
[00:57:23] <toastydeath> i don't think anyone looked into it beyond that
[00:59:20] <BeIdentityCrisis> I did find this: http://axis.unpy.net/01154705314
[00:59:21] <archivist> hmm it may look nice but would it last 5 minutes in a workshop
[00:59:52] <BeIdentityCrisis> It looks vaguely like it might do something with it
[01:00:42] <BeIdentityCrisis> yeah, it is rather fragile. the top already came off mine.
[01:00:58] <toastydeath> real mpg wheels get covered in coolant on a more than uncommon basis
[01:01:07] <toastydeath> not sure how much coolant you use though
[01:01:46] <BeIdentityCrisis> :) my little machine doesn't have coolant yet.... just WD-40 when I spray it...
[01:02:10] <archivist> I just spent 5 minutes de swarfing my mouse
[01:03:12] <BeIdentityCrisis> along those lines, I have an old logitech track ball that seems pretty immune the crap getting in the works
[01:03:13] <jmkasunich> only 5 mins?
[01:06:43] <archivist> getting faster as I do it once or twice a week
[02:58:30] <tomp2> gnite
[07:11:36] <pjm> good morning
[07:13:25] <dimas> morning
[07:40:31] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing_
[12:05:07] <assargadon> is it needed to make some kind of ioperm before using inports and outports?
[12:38:46] <assargadon> My windows program is now successfully ported to linux :)
[12:39:31] <assargadon> Now I need rewrite it as HAL driver...at least. All pieces is already here and all preparations complete.
[12:42:11] <assargadon> I have a "unused" 8-bits channel used for just controlling 8 leds of front panel of controller box
[12:42:35] <assargadon> first of all I should control them, isn't it?
[12:48:33] <dimas_> assargadon: what's the program?
[12:49:56] <assargadon> dimas_, before I get to know about EMC
[12:50:17] <assargadon> I write a simple control program for my robot
[12:50:35] <assargadon> I wrote it with GCC, but for windows
[12:50:55] <dimas_> do you have pics of the robot?
[12:52:36] <assargadon> dimas_, yes: http://headache.h1.ru/EMC/
[12:55:16] <dimas_> what town are you from?
[12:55:21] <dimas_> * dimas_ is in vladimir
[12:55:52] <assargadon> Rostov-on-Don :)
[12:56:32] <assargadon> dimas_, do you have any hardware and it's photoes as well?
[12:57:02] <dimas_> not yet, I'm just started
[12:57:43] <dimas_> have one L297 driver soldered, and few wide-matrix printers disassembled..
[12:57:46] <assargadon> By the way, don't you are partner of Phreedom?
[12:58:19] <dimas_> no, who is Phreedom?
[12:59:15] <assargadon> it's guytrying to make technology for making pieso-steppers
[12:59:21] <assargadon> *guy trying
[13:00:00] <dimas_> have any links to read about that?
[13:00:10] <assargadon> no, sorry
[13:00:28] <assargadon> this guys have old-style manner of thinking
[13:00:48] <assargadon> something like "no speaks, you should work!"
[13:01:03] <dimas_> have not heard about him
[13:01:15] <assargadon> he is never appeared here
[13:01:25] <assargadon> he is on reprap site
[13:01:41] <assargadon> *channel
[13:01:51] <assargadon> do you ever heard about reprap?
[13:02:29] <dimas_> reprap has a channel, I should have guessed about that.. :)
[13:02:56] <dimas_> yeah, visited their site
[13:04:08] <assargadon> what do you plan to make with your disassembled printers ?
[13:07:48] <dimas_> will gather steppers and axis
[13:08:19] <assargadon> dimas_, yes,I understand :)
[13:08:40] <assargadon> I mean, what robot do you plan to construct
[13:08:43] <dimas_> doing simple router, just to make something moving for the beginning
[13:08:44] <assargadon> ?
[13:08:56] <assargadon> ane-axis router?
[13:09:57] <dimas_> I have about 7 printers, could do 7-axis milling machine :)
[13:10:09] <assargadon> Heh, buy the way: PWM is used to controlling this robot really ;)
[13:10:27] <assargadon> dimas_, or 7 one-axis :)
[13:10:43] <assargadon> 7 instances, I mean :)
[13:10:44] <dimas_> wrong calculation
[13:11:41] <dimas_> about 2 in each direction, so 3.5-axis machine for now
[13:11:55] <dimas_> just kidding..
[13:12:33] <assargadon> you don't need 2 of them for third axis
[13:12:52] <dimas_> yes, may be so
[13:13:37] <dimas_> I need to get something moving first
[13:16:37] <assargadon> ok, I wish you lack ;)
[13:17:33] <assargadon> I wonder how it's possible to use webcam with Dapper Drake :)
[13:17:46] <dimas_> assargadon: thanks, same for you
[13:18:07] <assargadon> It will be greate for russian enthuasts to overlook some working installation :)
[13:19:09] <assargadon> and for non-russians too,
[13:19:21] <assargadon> but russians need some kind of inspiration
[13:19:43] <assargadon> all this old technics we saw yeasterday is really bother me
[13:20:37] <assargadon> especially proppeler-powered airplane
[13:20:44] <awallin_emc> hi all. Has anyone used hal-streamer to log a hal pin to disk while running a program?
[13:22:12] <assargadon> oh
[13:33:13] <awallin_emc> milling some steel right now, will put videos online later today. The servos work quite nicely
[13:34:25] <assargadon> funny sparkles, isn't it?
[13:36:15] <awallin_emc> nah, I'm not running the machine so fast I would see sparkles and I'm using coolant
[13:52:09] <jmkasunich> awallin_emc: any specific questions about hal sampler?
[13:52:23] <jmkasunich> you want sampler, not streamer, if you are logging
[13:52:34] <jmkasunich> and that is exactly what it was designed to do
[13:58:28] <assargadon> what call can be used in rt modules for performing delay?
[13:58:35] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT got a new band saw yesterday
[13:58:40] <BigJohnT> http://www.wiltontool.com/Products.aspx?nav=ByPart&ClassID=333270&Part=7015
[13:59:44] <awallin_emc> jkm thanks, I will look at the docs for sampler and try something with sim first at home.
[14:00:19] <awallin_emc> I can now monitor spindle current so it would be nice to log that to a file and plot it vs. the moves to see how the spindle loads up when cutting
[14:00:26] <jmkasunich> assargadon: you don't want to do a "sleep" type delay in realtime code
[14:01:02] <assargadon> jmkasunich: I really need it
[14:01:05] <jmkasunich> if the delay is very short (a few uS) then you can busywait, but for any longer delay you should count thread periods
[14:01:31] <jmkasunich> the idea of RT code is that the code runs from beginning to end every period
[14:01:54] <assargadon> what "u" prefix mean? 10^-3? 10^-6 ?
[14:02:02] <jmkasunich> 10^-6
[14:03:26] <jmkasunich> assargadon: take a look at the code for HAL component "oneshot" for a way to do timing
[14:03:27] <jmkasunich> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/src/hal/components/oneshot.comp?rev=1.4
[14:04:38] <assargadon> Unfortunately I need 2-steps sending of data. Firstly I should set up value and config LPT bytes
[14:04:49] <johabaar72> jepler, alex_joni: I'm having some problems with emc on hardy
[14:04:59] <assargadon> and then, after 1-micro- or milli- second delay
[14:05:08] <johabaar72> I get this error on startup: RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected real time delay on task 1
[14:05:32] <jmkasunich> there is a big difference between 1 microsecond and 1 millisecond - which is it?
[14:05:54] <awallin_emc> * awallin_emc note to self: check this wrt. chart widget for pyvcp http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2000-March/029214.html
[14:06:03] <assargadon> and then I should set up config byte to "passive" mode
[14:06:08] <jmkasunich> johabaar72: have you run emc on dapper using this computer?
[14:06:16] <assargadon> it's making some kind of "tick" for controller
[14:07:17] <assargadon> jmkasunich: yes, I know it's a big difference - I searching for details just now
[14:07:42] <johabaar72> jmkasunich: no, I stumbled upon this software a couple a weeks ago and got the info on how to install the test version on hardy from alex_joni
[14:08:20] <johabaar72> so I have never used it before, note this error came on first startup, I havent even set it up yet for my mill
[14:08:22] <jmkasunich> the reason I asked is that "unexpected realtime delay" is not usually something that depends on the version of EMC - it comes from things in the computer
[14:08:35] <johabaar72> I see
[14:08:42] <jmkasunich> so you probably are not dealing with a Hardy specific issue
[14:09:04] <johabaar72> ok
[14:09:24] <jmkasunich> we have a wiki page dealing with that issue - hang on a sec while I get the URL'
[14:09:45] <johabaar72> I googled this error and actually found a log of this channel with alex_joni having having the same problem
[14:09:57] <jmkasunich> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[14:10:02] <jmkasunich> section 2 on the above page
[14:11:48] <johabaar72> yes, I've actually been browsing that page
[14:12:58] <jmkasunich> what do you see when you run the latency test?
[14:14:37] <johabaar72> which value do you want
[14:14:45] <johabaar72> Max jitter?
[14:17:05] <johabaar72> might be my motherboard that causing this, I've had serious compatability issues with in linux before
[14:17:28] <awallin_emc> in AXIS, is there a maximum length for the history-trail (red line after cutter). I'm noting something like that with a longer program
[14:17:35] <johabaar72> Max jitter: 1334959
[14:17:45] <awallin_emc> johabaar72: I had a 155ms spurious delay on one machine. nothing to do but replace it
[14:18:14] <awallin_emc> johabaar72: did you try the smi fix? (if it's an intel board)
[14:19:37] <jmkasunich> johabaar72: 1334959 is a huge jitter
[14:19:54] <jmkasunich> ideally it is under 20000 or so
[14:19:59] <johabaar72> I see
[14:20:14] <assargadon> hmm...it's looks like 10^-3 sec. delay needed
[14:20:20] <assargadon> hmmm
[14:20:31] <jmkasunich> assargadon: then you should use the technique in oneshot.comp
[14:21:02] <jmkasunich> set the port in one pass of the thread, then reset it (or whatever) in the next pass, or 10 passes later, or whatever gives you the proper delay
[14:21:02] <assargadon> yes, I understand. It will be little harder than I expect. Why not, thought :)
[14:21:21] <assargadon> yes, I understand the idea :)
[14:21:39] <jmkasunich> sorry
[14:21:40] <awallin_emc> johabaar72: you should document your experiments here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test try disabling all the stuff you don't need from the BIOS
[14:22:23] <awallin_emc> johabaar72: also I understand that hardware graphics acceleration is bad, so you should probably run the 'vesa' X driver
[14:22:47] <johabaar72> ok
[14:25:51] <johabaar72> I've had issues with the graphics card before. It's an inbuilt ati x1250 on an asus M2A-VM HDMI motherboard, I've been trying for quite some time to get the hdmi output working without success
[14:26:21] <johabaar72> and ati support in linux isn't that good :P
[14:27:50] <assargadon> remind me the comand for viewing the log
[14:27:57] <jmkasunich> our experience has been that on-board video is a problem
[14:28:05] <assargadon> with description "what happens with my RT module"
[14:28:06] <jmkasunich> (item 2.1.1 on the troubleshooting page)
[14:28:16] <jmkasunich> assargadon: dmesg
[14:28:22] <assargadon> thanks
[14:28:41] <jmkasunich> johabaar72: do you have a spare video card sitting around?
[14:29:07] <awallin_emc> johabaar72: yep you should probably try a separate pci-e graphics card
[14:30:57] <johabaar72> yeah, I think thats seems to be my last option. Sadly, the reason I bought this mb was to get rid of all extra cards and I thought a board with inbuilt dvi + real hdmi would be something fantastic
[14:31:05] <johabaar72> I guess I was wrong :P
[14:31:29] <johabaar72> works on the dark side though (windows)
[14:31:56] <cradek> what is hdmi?
[14:32:43] <jmkasunich> high definition multimedia interface
[14:32:52] <cradek> oh
[14:32:58] <cradek> I suppose google could have told me
[14:33:00] <johabaar72> high definition video interface or something. DVI + audio in a interface directly usable by mothern tvs
[14:33:01] <jmkasunich> (says google)
[14:33:31] <cradek> a machine good for multimedia and a machine good for machine control are probably not going to match
[14:33:39] <awallin_emc> I'm surprised laptops haven't moved to the small hdmi connector, everyone is still using the old 15-pin d-conn
[14:33:42] <jmkasunich> agreed
[14:34:53] <johabaar72> I guess but I thought I'd give it a try being my wife wouldnt like any more computers taking up space :)
[14:36:02] <cradek> always the wife gets blamed
[14:36:31] <cradek> wonder what they say about the guys when they're alone.
[14:36:46] <johabaar72> :)
[14:37:26] <OoBIGeye> cradek: don't ask...
[14:50:51] <assargadon> I should convert signet pin to unsigned one...hmmm
[14:50:58] <assargadon> *signed
[15:30:58] <ALS> hardy ate my W2K
[15:34:42] <rayh> Yummy.
[15:35:09] <DanielFalck> you're in luck- wine is up to version 1.0 : )
[15:35:20] <cradek> 1) now you're free -- 2) depending on what "ate" means, you could try asking for help in #ubuntu
[15:35:24] <rayh> Hi Dan.
[15:35:31] <DanielFalck> rayh: hi Ray
[15:36:15] <ALS> she wont boot
[15:36:47] <rayh> You shrank the w2k partition and added 8.04?
[15:37:11] <ALS> just installed in a old emc1 part
[15:37:46] <rayh> Okay so w2k is still on there just not setup right in grub.
[15:37:57] <ALS> ya
[15:38:16] <rayh> At least that is my impression.
[15:38:26] <ALS> not to handy with grub thou
[15:38:53] <rayh> You might try mounting the w2k partition in 8.04 and grab the data you need.
[15:39:10] <rayh> At least that way you know it's still there.
[15:39:23] <ALS> its still there
[15:39:34] <rayh> Then go to Ubuntu irc and ask about how to fix grub.
[15:40:16] <skunkworks> isn't there an option in the grub boot loader to boot other os?
[15:40:20] <ALS> ok
[15:40:43] <ALS> ya
[15:41:21] <ALS> it says window 2000 but it wont boot it
[15:42:20] <rayh> Yes. Try "man update-grub"
[15:44:33] <ALS> the sadness is i ran repair console fixmbr now no grug either
[15:47:22] <ALS> reinstall the Heron or can i just load Grub somehow?
[15:50:30] <jepler> ALS: apparently modifying the partition table breaks windows boot.ini file http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-644025.html
[15:51:06] <ALS> looking
[15:53:08] <skunkworks> I need to mow.. Just did that 8 days ago.
[15:54:40] <jepler> ALS: as for restoring grub once it's been overwritten, I've also found various instructions on the internet on how to use live CDs or rescue CDs for that purpose
[15:55:11] <jepler> e.g., http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=224351
[16:23:42] <dmess> hi all
[16:36:00] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: get a goat
[16:44:41] <tomp2> if you have a grub boot, and know the w$ partition, you can edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to something >>like<< this
[16:44:43] <tomp2> # This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
[16:44:43] <tomp2> # on /dev/hda1
[16:44:43] <tomp2> titleMicrosoft Windows 2000 Professional
[16:44:43] <tomp2> root(hd0,0)
[16:44:43] <tomp2> savedefault
[16:44:44] <tomp2> makeactive
[16:44:46] <tomp2> chainloader+1
[16:45:55] <tomp2> ----- read the web & note... grub counts different than linux ... (hd0,0) in grub-ese is hda1 inux linux-ese
[16:46:18] <tomp2> --- and c: in window-ese
[17:26:13] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[17:41:58] <awallin> anyone up for a 100 Mb cnc-video?? :)
[17:47:35] <pjm> funnily enough i was just making a youtube account to post some of my cnc build progress vids
[17:48:39] <awallin> pjm: sounds great, do post links here or on the emc mailing list.
[17:48:46] <awallin> there's also a wiki page with links to videos
[17:49:15] <pjm> ok will do, i have some vids of my X axis stepper on the table etc with some repeatability tests etc
[17:49:42] <awallin> anyway, my upload finished, so if you want you can look here: http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/2008/05_bulbmill/bulbmill.mp4
[17:49:46] <pjm> and the Y axis is going on a haas on monday night to have the ends machined for the Y axis bearings etc
[17:49:50] <awallin> it's going to be on google video later
[17:50:12] <awallin> I hope I'm not going to run out of bandwidth on my site...
[17:55:20] <awallin> the video is supposed to show up here once google is finished processing it http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=916833244018390029
[18:06:00] <pjm> ok my first effort uploaded to utube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVGQvPL2DjA
[18:07:25] <awallin> Martzis: check out our milling test from today: http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/2008/05_bulbmill/bulbmill.mp4
[18:09:41] <tomp2> awallin: df / first for those who might not have enuf room ;)
[18:11:46] <awallin> gotta run, bbl.
[18:17:52] <Guest265> this little cable driven table is just a bit too cource. input scale is 1256 with 2000 steps per rev. It will position within .005 or so but that is about it.
[18:18:13] <Guest265> Guest265 is now known as skunkworks_
[18:25:01] <skunkworks_> how can I bump someone that is using my nick? is that possible?
[18:25:23] <skunkworks_> reading the faq on freenode doesn't seem helpful
[18:25:36] <pjm> there is "RECOVER Kill another user who has taken your nick"
[18:25:43] <pjm> so do a /msg nickserv help
[18:25:55] <skunkworks_> thanks
[18:25:58] <pjm> np
[18:27:27] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[18:29:04] <fenn> skunkworks_: you probably want to use GHOST
[18:31:15] <skunkworks_> skunkworks_ is now known as skunkworks
[18:31:22] <skunkworks> thanks fenn
[19:04:11] <awallin> now my google video has finished processing and is online: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=916833244018390029
[19:08:35] <fenn> seems like last pass should be 'waterline' - is it actually exposed to moving water?
[19:09:07] <fenn> * fenn grumbles about golf ball dimples
[19:09:46] <awallin> :) some people have tried golf-ball like 'turbulators' on sailboats, but nobody really uses them for real
[19:15:56] <alex_joni> awallin: there's a new connector coming out
[19:16:03] <alex_joni> serial digital link for panels
[19:16:09] <alex_joni> it supports sound too
[19:16:16] <alex_joni> it will replace VGA and DVI
[19:16:22] <alex_joni> sometimes soonish
[19:16:24] <awallin> alex_joni: do we need something else than hdmi?
[19:16:38] <alex_joni> awallin: apparently yes
[19:17:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is not sure about agreeing
[19:17:26] <alex_joni> btw.. HDMI can be sent from DVI connectors/cards
[19:17:42] <awallin> maybe we should all go into the converter-dongle business?
[19:17:56] <alex_joni> awallin: this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort
[19:18:04] <alex_joni> it's royalty free.. so I guess that's a plus
[19:18:46] <alex_joni> "10.8 Gbit/s forward link channel supports high resolution monitors up to 2560×1600 with single cable." <- guess SWPadnos will like that
[19:19:28] <awallin> I got a 1900x1200, anything over that is still pretty pricy? 30" apple would be nice...
[19:20:47] <alex_joni> same here.. on a 24" .. was way cheap
[19:21:40] <awallin> even pci-e is something like 1Gb/s, so the graphics card must come up with a factor of 10 in bits?
[19:22:53] <alex_joni> well.. I bet graphics cards generate a lot of data :)
[19:23:18] <alex_joni> I think things will change radically when AMD will supply their mixed CPU+GPU
[19:23:33] <alex_joni> now that they got ATI they plan to integrate things again
[19:23:44] <awallin> I saw some simulations that ran in parallel on an nvidia graphics card. Pretty cool general purpose computing can be done on the GPUs.
[19:23:54] <alex_joni> then a single DisplayPort coming from that.. should be nice
[19:24:50] <awallin> hopefully they can come up with a standard for the multi-threading on GPUs, I'm not going to invest time in learning some nvidia specific thing just yet...
[19:29:00] <alex_joni> well.. this is AMD/ATI ;)
[19:31:10] <jepler> one PCI Express "lane" is 250 mega*byte* per second, so a 16x slot is 16 * 250MB/s = 4 GB/s = 32 Gbit/s.
[19:32:57] <assargadon> hm. My module making something wrong with system.
[19:33:16] <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/MyMachineShop/PipeDreamMill/PDM-FirstPassAndPowerSupplyInternal/
[19:35:12] <awallin> Kzan: that PSU looks scary!
[19:35:16] <assargadon> ah...maybe it's becouse it named "urtk" but file named "URTK"
[19:35:51] <gefink> assargadon: thats a problem
[19:36:21] <assargadon> is it possible to unloadit...somehow?
[19:36:28] <assargadon> *unload it
[19:36:35] <awallin> halcmd unloadrt all
[19:36:45] <awallin> or maybe halcmd -U ?
[19:37:11] <gefink> or rmmod
[19:38:12] <assargadon> -U option reported as unrecognized
[19:38:19] <assargadon> and what is rmmod?
[19:38:43] <gefink> it unloads a kernelmodule
[19:40:45] <assargadon> after parsing some error output
[19:40:50] <assargadon> I used " /usr/bin/emc_module_helper remove URTK"
[19:40:55] <assargadon> and it helps :)
[19:40:59] <jepler> -U is a flag to halrun, not to halcmd. halrun -U is equivalent to lcmd -R; halcmd stop; halcmd unload all; $REALTIME stop
[19:41:14] <jepler> er, something like that
[19:41:45] <assargadon> ok, now I know component name used for filenames determining :)
[19:42:28] <assargadon> we can think about it as "valuable experience", isn't it?
[19:51:05] <alex_joni> The next time you are feeling down remember... if the world
[19:51:05] <alex_joni> didn't suck, we'd all fall off.
[19:56:12] <assargadon> hehe
[19:56:29] <assargadon> I now see my driver doing something with my robot :)
[19:56:51] <assargadon> Unfortunately, it making something differ from planned functionality :)
[19:57:08] <assargadon> I plan LEDs blinking
[19:57:10] <gefink> oh. thats bad
[19:57:21] <assargadon> Instead of this, I got motors rotating :)
[19:57:59] <assargadon> all 3 motors simultaneously, by the way :)
[19:58:49] <assargadon> but, at least, it show me some signs of life, isn't it?
[19:59:24] <gefink> it is. also better as nothing happens
[19:59:47] <assargadon> and fo sure better than some smoke :)
[20:00:15] <gefink> sure
[20:00:23] <alex_joni> magic smoke
[20:01:10] <gefink> electronics work with smoke. if smoke comes out nothing works
[20:01:12] <assargadon> by the way, documentation told me PWM should be used for speed controlling
[20:01:38] <assargadon> but no additional tech info :)
[20:02:25] <assargadon> it was not really "documentation", but, instead of this, description of some software for controlling same robot
[20:02:31] <assargadon> accomplished in QNX
[20:02:51] <assargadon> looks very same to EMC
[20:03:07] <assargadon> except for modularity, universality and so on :)
[20:04:05] <alex_joni> and no source ;)
[20:04:41] <assargadon> no anything
[20:04:57] <assargadon> not sources, nor binaries, nor links
[20:05:11] <assargadon> don't matter :)
[20:08:47] <assargadon> "nano" means 10^-9, isn't it?
[20:09:23] <gefink> yes
[20:09:43] <ALS> jepler: Thanks! that was it boot.ini partion number W2K lives, for what thats worth I broke by deleting a partition
[20:10:47] <gefink> by
[20:13:30] <skunkworks> awallin: nice video.. Love the pid output :)
[20:14:07] <assargadon> ah...it becomes really boring, I see
[20:15:18] <assargadon> (realtively) long-therm delays
[20:15:39] <assargadon> ans several operations to accomplish one protocol step...
[20:15:54] <assargadon> agggr
[20:16:03] <assargadon> *and
[20:16:24] <assargadon> I need some kind of FIFO buffer for this
[20:16:50] <DanielFalck> awallin: how did you generate the g-code for the milling in that video?
[20:18:47] <alex_joni> which video?
[20:19:43] <DanielFalck> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=916833244018390029
[20:21:40] <awallin> DanielFalck: that g-code is generated with commercial software. The finish pass would be straightforward to generate, but the roughing paths are still far away (at least for me)
[20:21:59] <DanielFalck> ok
[20:22:22] <alex_joni> looks great awallin
[20:22:47] <awallin> alex_joni: yeah, I think it's never again steppers for me... the servos just work so much better
[20:23:43] <awallin> this is steel, but the things we plan to do are mostly in alu so that should be a piece of cake :)
[20:24:03] <alex_joni> awallin: you're very fond of that pyvcp it would seem :)
[20:24:38] <awallin> ha :) I would have done it in vcp had there been widgets available
[20:25:41] <alex_joni> :P
[20:26:52] <awallin> my friend Jari asked if the G64 tolerance value could be made adjustable from a pyVCP widget? I guess it's not straightforward as the interpreter reads ahead?
[20:27:11] <alex_joni> right
[20:27:30] <alex_joni> but you can have "checkpoints" in the code
[20:27:38] <alex_joni> M66 E00
[20:27:45] <awallin> could the G64 tolerance be totally decoupled from interp, and only a hal pin in motmod?
[20:27:48] <alex_joni> G64 P#<forgot the number>
[20:28:04] <alex_joni> M66 causes lookahead to be stopped
[20:28:25] <alex_joni> awallin: in theory yes, not sure who would be interested enough to do it though ;)
[20:29:01] <jepler> the "naive cam detector" (segment merging) part can't be because that happens during readahead, but it's possible that the portion of it related to blending could be.
[20:29:26] <awallin> yah. now we do a couple of dry-runs with different P-values to see what gives smooth motion
[20:35:19] <assargadon> hm...now it blinking by leds as expected
[20:35:45] <assargadon> but with weird design, based on rtapi_delay(1000000); call
[20:36:01] <SWPLinux> don't do that :)
[20:36:22] <alex_joni> especially in a RT driver
[20:37:16] <assargadon> pretty fine delay ;)
[20:37:35] <assargadon> heh, I thinking about how to make it correctly
[20:37:49] <assargadon> and every desigh I can imagine
[20:38:03] <assargadon> brokes incapsulation idea :)
[20:38:26] <SWPLinux> is this supposed to be a HAL component?
[20:38:56] <assargadon> it's supposed to be realtime driver, as alex_joni said
[20:39:17] <SWPLinux> ok, for HAL or "normal" RTAI?
[20:39:24] <alex_joni> HAL I think
[20:39:31] <assargadon> for HAL of course
[20:40:07] <SWPLinux> did you try making a function and exporting it with hal_export_func()
[20:40:16] <SWPLinux> (or however it's spelled:)
[20:41:55] <assargadon> I just add this delay for testing purposes
[20:42:03] <assargadon> SWPLinux, it's hard to answer
[20:42:06] <SWPLinux> heh
[20:42:15] <assargadon> correct variant is "yes", I think
[20:42:24] <assargadon> but I use comp...
[20:42:33] <assargadon> so exporting is hided from me
[20:42:39] <SWPLinux> H, OK
[20:42:42] <SWPLinux> gah
[20:42:47] <SWPLinux> ah, ok :)
[20:44:07] <SWPLinux> the function should have access to the period of the thread it's run from, so you would delay by subtracting that period (time elapsed) from the delay time you want, and toggling when you go below 0
[20:44:16] <SWPLinux> look at the timedelay component (I think)
[20:44:31] <assargadon> SWPLinux, I understand the idea how it CAN be made
[20:44:41] <SWPLinux> that's how it should be made :)
[20:44:48] <SWPLinux> unless you need very very short delays
[20:45:42] <SWPLinux> but then again, you know what you're doing and I don't, so there could be other solutions
[20:45:52] <assargadon> SWPLinux, really not. Parameter you talking about called "period", I already looking for it :)
[20:46:24] <assargadon> it's only correct if you know for sure your function is attached to one thread only
[20:46:50] <SWPLinux> looks like it's called fperiod for the floating point value, maybe there's also period for the number in ns (don't know)
[20:46:56] <SWPLinux> it may only be attached to one thread
[20:46:57] <assargadon> in other cases you should use some time or clock measurement functions
[20:47:01] <SWPLinux> that's the HAL rule
[20:47:17] <assargadon> OK :)
[20:47:32] <SWPLinux> see src/hal/components/timedelay.comp
[20:47:32] <assargadon> it making things little better
[20:47:37] <assargadon> but still...
[20:47:56] <assargadon> code I imagine will be very. VERY weird
[20:48:24] <SWPLinux> if so, then you may be trying to do too many things in a single module
[20:48:25] <assargadon> it's impossible to split it on functions...and so on
[20:48:28] <SWPLinux> heh
[20:49:10] <assargadon> SWPLinux, problem is "logically" there are "write register" operation ond "read register" operations
[20:49:16] <assargadon> *and
[20:49:36] <SWPLinux> yes - those would normally be separate read() and write() functions
[20:50:00] <assargadon> every read-write operation has 1 dealy
[20:50:02] <SWPLinux> read would be put at the start of the thread, then all the processing, then write as the last function in the thread
[20:50:06] <assargadon> *delay
[20:50:24] <SWPLinux> so you hav to write the address or something, then read back data a certain tmie later?
[20:50:25] <SWPLinux> have
[20:50:30] <SWPLinux> time
[20:50:44] <SWPLinux> darned laptop keyboards
[20:50:51] <assargadon> SWPlinux, yes.
[20:51:01] <assargadon> and it's not yet a problem ;)
[20:51:22] <assargadon> problem is for some usefull operation
[20:51:32] <assargadon> like "set motor registers"
[20:51:41] <assargadon> or "read motor registers"
[20:52:06] <assargadon> I need 2-4 "read register" and "write register" operations
[20:52:35] <SWPLinux> what is the PC hardware? something like a parallel port?
[20:52:47] <assargadon> parralel port itself :)
[20:53:03] <SWPLinux> ok, and you have custom hardware connected to the port?
[20:53:12] <assargadon> SWPLinux, don't you overlook my robot brief description?
[20:53:24] <assargadon> SWPLinux, yes
[20:53:38] <SWPLinux> I was on an airplane for most of the day today :)
[20:53:52] <SWPLinux> two, actually
[20:53:56] <assargadon> * assargadon loves aeroplanes
[20:54:07] <SWPLinux> yep, me too
[20:57:52] <assargadon> I loves airplanes food espesially
[20:57:58] <assargadon> somewhy
[20:58:01] <SWPLinux> you are insane
[20:58:03] <SWPLinux> :)
[20:58:27] <SWPLinux> hmmm. then again, on planes where they actually give you food, it can be pretty good :)
[20:59:10] <assargadon> :)
[20:59:39] <assargadon> http://headache.h1.ru/EMC/
[20:59:54] <assargadon> my robot description if you not saw it before
[21:01:00] <SWPLinux> thanks. I was just looking through the logs trying to find it :)
[21:02:47] <assargadon> heh :)
[21:03:05] <assargadon> I really flood everything around here with this link :)
[21:06:12] <SWPLinux> I think there's an error in there - the extra 4 bits in cSetDvgRegs should be able to turn devices on and off, not off and off :)
[21:07:31] <SWPLinux> hmmm. interesting
[21:09:45] <assargadon> :)
[21:09:55] <assargadon> yes, it's error really :)
[21:10:44] <SWPLinux> well, good luck. I think the lack of directional encoders will make control difficult
[21:16:57] <SWPLinux> in theory, the right thing to do is write a driver that only provides read/write functions, and HAL pins for the different functions
[21:17:13] <SWPLinux> such as motor 1 enable and motor 1 direction
[21:17:35] <SWPLinux> (I'd do enable/dir so a user of the driver couldn't accidentally let the smoke out)
[21:18:26] <assargadon> YES, OF COURSE, IT'S THE THING i PLAN TO DO
[21:18:28] <SWPLinux> other things like encoder pulse state and limit switches should just be exported as hal pins - use an encoder (in counter mode maybe) to count the pulses
[21:18:38] <assargadon> ouch
[21:18:41] <SWPLinux> heh
[21:18:46] <SWPLinux> gotta love caps-lock
[21:19:08] <assargadon> I'm alredy wrote pulse_encoder
[21:19:46] <assargadon> which takes pulse and direction bits
[21:21:43] <SWPLinux> I'm pretty sure the encoder module has that mode also
[21:22:10] <SWPLinux> the hard part will be determining the actual direction vs. the requested direction
[21:23:43] <assargadon> it's not really so hard :)
[21:24:12] <SWPLinux> it gets harder when you're trying to reverse directions
[21:24:17] <assargadon> you mean inertion, loop delays...
[21:24:57] <max4096> hello
[21:25:14] <SWPLinux> yes
[21:25:23] <jmkasunich> awallin: steel for a bulb? why not lead?
[21:25:55] <max4096> I am trying to run the live CD on a P2 333MHz 192MB RAM, but after it says "loading kernel" the screen goes white
[21:26:11] <SWPLinux> it's very likely that you don't have enough RAM
[21:26:25] <jmkasunich> P2 is ok, 333MHz is marginal, 192M is not enough
[21:26:39] <HighOctane> cradek: You don't know me. I'm kind of new around here. I have been visiting axis.unpy.net and saw the 5 axis visualization/kinematics video. Very nice work. Can a simple three axis python visualization be implemented at this point?
[21:26:42] <alex_joni> max4096: get an Xubuntu alternate CD for 6.06
[21:26:53] <jmkasunich> live-CDs can't use swap or write anything to disk, so they need lots of RAM
[21:26:58] <alex_joni> install it, and afterwards install emc2
[21:27:01] <SWPLinux> if you have a hard disk you can install to, then get one of the alternate install discs and install EMC2 later
[21:27:12] <SWPLinux> if you don't have a spare disk, tehn try to get some spare RAM :)
[21:27:12] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: live-cd's do use swap if they find any available
[21:27:14] <SWPLinux> then
[21:27:30] <jmkasunich> HighOctane: unpy.net is jepler, not cradek
[21:27:34] <alex_joni> HighOctane: what do you mean by 3-axis?
[21:27:48] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: they both blog at axis.unpy.net
[21:27:51] <max4096> the computer has ~2 GB of disk space, is that enough for a std Ubuntu 6 install?
[21:27:59] <SWPLinux> max4096: should be
[21:28:05] <SWPLinux> close, but enough
[21:28:05] <alex_joni> may be for xubuntu
[21:28:08] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: they do? I thought cradek was at timeguy
[21:28:16] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: at axis.unpy.net
[21:28:24] <jmkasunich> ah
[21:28:28] <alex_joni> jeplers blog is at emergent.unpy.net
[21:30:21] <alex_joni> well.. I'm off to bed
[21:30:24] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:30:27] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[21:30:33] <SWPLinux> noghty noghty night
[21:30:37] <SWPLinux> s/o/i/
[21:30:40] <SWPLinux> /g
[21:31:12] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: hope I can get back in gear to do some more stuff on joints-axes before fest
[21:31:28] <HighOctane> I know it's Jepler's site, but he has a video of Chris' work on his site.
[21:31:52] <SWPLinux> didn't Stuart do the visualization?
[21:32:13] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: cradek did one too
[21:32:28] <SWPLinux> HighOctane: to answer your question, yes - a 3-axis visualization can be made - the first few were 2 or 3 axis
[21:32:30] <SWPLinux> ah, ok
[21:32:41] <alex_joni> HighOctane: basicly you can do any kind of simulation.. but you need to draw/construct it yourself
[21:32:43] <HighOctane> When I say three axis, I simply mean X, Y, and Z. I would like to visualize a 3d model of my machine in GUI for simulations, even watch the machine run in 3D while processing parts.
[21:32:50] <rayh> Hi alex_joni
[21:32:56] <alex_joni> hey ray
[21:33:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni sticks around for a bit
[21:33:03] <jmkasunich> HighOctane: that can be done
[21:33:08] <SWPLinux> there is a framework, you do the coding :)
[21:33:12] <jmkasunich> exactly
[21:33:16] <rayh> You still in de or back home?
[21:33:18] <HighOctane> alex_joni: construct it using python visual or what?
[21:33:22] <alex_joni> coding is a bit farstreched
[21:33:31] <alex_joni> HighOctane: yes, it's called vismach
[21:33:47] <SWPLinux> sort of python / hal / art-form
[21:33:52] <alex_joni> it's in python, and you basicly construct objects with boxes/cylinders etc
[21:34:09] <alex_joni> there are sample guis for scara/puma/5axis/etc
[21:34:16] <alex_joni> rayh: back home
[21:34:50] <HighOctane> Interesting. Can it be set up on a virtual machine, then migrated to a production machine?
[21:34:54] <alex_joni> sure
[21:35:14] <jmkasunich> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/lib/python/vismach.py?rev=1.16
[21:36:08] <jmkasunich> I'm trying to find the machine layout specific stuff
[21:36:36] <SWPLinux> is it included?
[21:36:44] <SWPLinux> you had some on your blog
[21:36:45] <jmkasunich> I would think so
[21:37:48] <SWPLinux> src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/*
[21:37:55] <jmkasunich> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/pumagui.py?rev=1.3
[21:38:26] <jmkasunich> HighOctane: you can copy the above file, rename it, and hack on it to display whatever machine you want
[21:38:49] <rayh> Is that a rho theta machine code I'm looking at
[21:38:53] <jmkasunich> scaragui.py and 5axisgui.py are in the same directory - pick whichever is closer to what you want
[21:39:04] <SWPLinux> rayh: robot arm
[21:39:11] <rayh> Ah okay.
[21:39:32] <rayh> I did see a rho grinder in china.
[21:39:50] <SWPLinux> well, you wouldn't want your rhos to get too big
[21:40:09] <SWPLinux> rhos by any other name? :)
[21:40:09] <jmkasunich> this is (an early version of) pumagui
[21:40:12] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/software/simulated-machine-02-04-07.html
[21:40:37] <HighOctane> Thanks jmkasunich.
[21:41:22] <HighOctane> I know there is a liveCD for ubuntu. Is that the latest big thing. I would like to set up a vm for testing the visualization. Is that what I should use?
[21:41:46] <alex_joni> HighOctane: for sim only you can use close to anything
[21:44:28] <SWPLinux> but installation is probably easiest with the livecD
[21:46:12] <rayh> HighOctane, Either of the live CDs are great for seeing if your box will work. You can then easily move from running live to install.
[21:46:48] <HighOctane> Great. Thanks very much. I like virtual machines, cause I can work on them while in the IRC program.
[21:47:48] <rayh> Exactly. It's easy to pass info around. I've been running my main web box using EMC installs since early BDI.
[21:48:08] <rayh> The recent installs are very stable.
[22:05:44] <alex_joni> <- really off to bed
[22:05:46] <alex_joni> night all
[22:07:27] <BigJohnT> night alex
[23:05:58] <assargadon> Heh...I catch a bug
[23:06:14] <assargadon> port and sended value was used in wrong order....
[23:08:05] <assargadon> I'm happy nothing happens to my computer :)
[23:08:16] <assargadon> if REALLY nothing
[23:26:09] <assargadon_> hehe
[23:26:35] <assargadon_> it was really bad idea - incorporate delays inty RT driver :)