#emc | Logs for 2008-04-28

[00:05:37] <skunkworks> the oil pan wasn't sealed correctly.. And now an oil plug on the top of the engine that wasn't tight.
[00:17:22] <skunkworks> new overhaul.
[00:17:51] <skunkworks> before the overhaul - I think it leaked everwhere ;)
[01:10:20] <renesis> http://www.photobasement.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/blackkids.jpg
[01:10:24] <renesis> (rly its not that bad)
[01:17:42] <SkinnYPupp> lol
[01:17:56] <SkinnYPupp> Guess they coulda worded that better
[01:24:15] <jmkasunich> gawd I am such a desk jockey
[01:25:11] <jmkasunich> couple hours of actual work and I'm petered out, and to top it off I tried to stab myself with a screwdriver bit
[01:33:19] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: work as in machining or as it physcial labor.... cleaning up the garage, yard work, etc?
[01:33:27] <renesis> http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackkidskw8.jpg
[01:33:43] <renesis> haha okay that ones kinda mean
[01:35:23] <jmkasunich> physical labor
[01:35:26] <jmkasunich> machining is easy
[01:35:39] <jmkasunich> I'm framing out part of my basement wall
[01:35:43] <renesis> omg cnc machining is boring
[01:35:58] <renesis> its like, 3min of excitement during setup and an hour of 8 of babysitting
[01:36:02] <jmkasunich> boring yes, physically tiring no
[01:36:09] <renesis> yeh
[01:36:12] <renesis> well
[01:36:19] <renesis> i dont have a chair by my enclosure sometimes
[01:36:23] <renesis> so i have to stand up
[01:36:27] <renesis> standing up sucks, yo
[01:36:49] <jmkasunich> yeah, especially on a concrete floor
[01:37:41] <jmkasunich> I'm really not looking forward to carrying 4x8 sheets of drywall down the steps by myself
[01:44:06] <phix> werd
[02:21:30] <cradek> jmkasunich: you need a friendly neighbor
[02:22:48] <jmkasunich> my neighbors on both sides are women
[02:22:52] <jmkasunich> one is in her 60s
[02:23:02] <jmkasunich> or 70s?
[02:23:07] <cradek> hmm, ask the other one then
[02:23:16] <jmkasunich> heh
[02:24:33] <jmkasunich> its funny how goals change over the day - I was thinking "I'll have this up and primed so I can paint tomorrow" (I'm not gonna mess with joint compound, its a basement)
[02:24:45] <jmkasunich> then it was "maybe I'll have the wallboard up"
[02:24:53] <jmkasunich> now its "maybe I'll have the framing done
[02:25:17] <cradek> "maybe I'll drag some 2x4s down the steps before I go to bed"
[02:25:23] <SWPadnos> IRC reduces productivity significantly
[02:25:30] <jmkasunich> doesn't help that I only decided to do this around 6pm, and didn't have the material here till 8pm
[02:25:43] <jmkasunich> taking a break - half of the framing is up
[02:26:01] <cradek> you expected to frame a wall, drywall it, and then prime it in one evening?
[02:26:14] <SWPadnos> Home Depot (or similar) has a long-term payoff, but usually decreases productivity in the short term also ;)
[02:26:15] <cradek> that's just delusional
[02:26:19] <jmkasunich> its only 8ft long
[02:26:31] <jmkasunich> 2 sheets
[02:26:48] <cradek> hmm ok
[02:26:56] <cradek> I'm sure I would have been delusional about it too
[02:27:00] <jmkasunich> the delusional goals really pre-dated the decision to do a wall
[02:27:27] <jmkasunich> last night moved crap, and primed the block wall and the floor in the area where I want to put my new benches
[02:27:41] <jmkasunich> today was gonna be "paint the floor", and tomorrow benches
[02:28:07] <cradek> wow, where did you get this new space to make into shop space?
[02:28:19] <jmkasunich> today I decided that I'm gonna want to hang stuff on the wall (cabinets, shelves, etc) and that leaving the block exposed would just make it harder
[02:28:30] <cradek> did you reclaim part of the garage or something?
[02:28:34] <jmkasunich> where'd I get it? I got divorced
[02:28:45] <jmkasunich> its the corner where her jewelry bench was
[02:28:49] <cradek> ah
[02:28:50] <jmkasunich> although I had to move some other crap as well
[02:30:00] <jmkasunich> one of the things I moved was a smaller bench that had my grinder and a few other things on it - I have no clue where I'm gonna put that
[02:30:08] <jmkasunich> the bench itself might go out in the garage
[02:30:31] <jmkasunich> the other big thing I moved is the rack that used to hold the compile farm
[02:30:54] <jmkasunich> it's a rolling shelf unit now (although it still has a keyboard and 17" monitor in the top)
[02:31:43] <jmkasunich> back to the grind - this half has a window to frame around
[02:32:30] <cradek> good luck
[04:30:59] <jmkasunich> done: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/framing-2031.jpg
[04:31:41] <JymmmEMC> how do they read the gas meter, and why is it indoors?
[04:32:09] <jmkasunich> they knock on the door
[04:32:21] <jmkasunich> dunno why its indoors - gas doesn't freeze
[04:32:46] <JymmmEMC> Hmmm, just never seen such a thing here before
[04:32:55] <JymmmEMC> General Question... If you had a choice of a) having email with attachments stay as a single file, or b) Have email attatchemnts as part of library/file system that are seemlessly linked. which would you prefer and why?
[04:33:02] <jmkasunich> its the norm in this neighborhood
[04:33:25] <jmkasunich> I'm too tired to think that hard
[04:33:42] <jmkasunich> 12:30, and I still have to walk the dog, and wake up for work in the morning
[04:34:03] <JymmmEMC> Too bad you can't replumb the gas lines, you could drywall the entire wall then.
[04:34:20] <jmkasunich> there is only another 30" before you get to the washer and dryer
[04:34:31] <JymmmEMC> ah
[04:34:49] <JymmmEMC> is there enough room for electrical in that framing?
[04:34:51] <jmkasunich> the gas pipe comes out of the wall about 36" above the floor - I'll put a storage cabinet or something under there
[04:35:03] <jmkasunich> I'm not putting any electrical in there
[04:35:24] <jmkasunich> I have an 8' long bench that is going against that wall, it has a power strip running full length
[04:36:03] <JymmmEMC> That works. I'm always running out of outlets so whenever there's an opportunity to place one.
[05:43:25] <K`zan> Well, got my z axis together, such has it is - could use some improvement :-).
[05:44:36] <SkinnYPup> Congrats have you gotten movement yet ?
[06:15:15] <K`zan> SkinnYPup: Yes, distance is off by what looks like about half from what is commanded, but it works otherwise :-).
[06:15:19] <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/MyMachineShop/PipeDreamMill/PDM-Zaxis-1/
[06:15:52] <K`zan> That 's what it looks like, needs a bit of work, but now I have a much better idea of what I am dealing with so it should be easier (sez she hopefully :-).
[06:19:38] <SkinnYPup> Lookin good, that was the hobby cnc board right?
[06:21:21] <K`zan> Yes Sir.
[06:21:26] <K`zan> 4 axis pro.
[06:21:53] <K`zan> WB :-). Yes, Sir: 4 axis pro.
[06:23:24] <SkinnYPup> Nice stuff.
[06:24:43] <K`zan> Well, that z-axis setup needs some work, but it was good experience.
[06:24:52] <SkinnYPup> A friend has been wondering about a low budget 3 axis for pcb's considering using a high performance R/C car motor for the spindle
[06:25:19] <K`zan> Those "small" 60 in/oz steppers are NOT weak :).
[06:25:30] <K`zan> Problem is how to connect whatever bit you want to it...
[06:25:56] <SkinnYPup> I'm sure they aren't , reasonable in price for a small machine too
[06:26:29] <K`zan> Yes, got a great deal on them, cheaper than the floppy type steppers and they have enough draw for the HCNC board (1.6A)
[06:28:20] <SkinnYPup> Cool, congrats.
[06:28:43] <K`zan> Thankee Sir, Thankee!
[06:28:51] <K`zan> Progress, slow but sure!
[06:29:31] <SkinnYPup> But you're making what speeds progress ;0) cnc is fun
[06:30:03] <K`zan> Yep, learning something and it hasn't put a REAL huge dent in the uMill budget.
[06:36:43] <Sweeper> SkinnYPup: should work, that spindle idea.
[06:37:32] <SkinnYPup> Indeed I think it would work great with a small flywheel for mass
[06:38:25] <SkinnYPup> could couple into the spindle with r/c car "dogbone" axles isolating the motor from spindle
[06:38:53] <SkinnYPup> or direct couple
[06:39:28] <Sweeper> * Sweeper is currently building a small drawers cabinet to store his parts and stuff so he can tear down his desk so he can rebuild it better so he can be ready for electronics so he can develop some controllers so he can make his cartesian bot so he can play with extruders and inkjets and dremels
[06:39:48] <fenn> looks like you need some hose clamps on that hose
[06:40:00] <K`zan> Yep, but no room...\
[06:40:09] <SkinnYPup> hi fenn
[06:40:11] <fenn> bad design then
[06:40:14] <K`zan> Going to have to think what to do about that.
[06:40:25] <K`zan> Well, hell yes, my first guess at it :),
[06:40:31] <fenn> take a short piece of square tube about the size of your stepper
[06:40:51] <fenn> mount the stepper on one face, leadscrew bearing on other face
[06:41:10] <fenn> then you can access the hose clamps through the open ends (where you cut it off)
[06:41:32] <fenn> can do something similar with standoffs
[06:41:40] <fenn> and a piece of angle bracket
[06:41:45] <K`zan> Problem with the current arrangement is that there is insufficient space to put one, I have them, but.
[06:42:00] <K`zan> Whole arrangement is rather flakey when you come right down to it.
[06:42:30] <K`zan> Might turn a collar with set screws to solve the problem.
[06:42:43] <Sweeper> that has to be the tiniest tablesaw I've ever seen
[06:42:54] <K`zan> Right now I am beat, gonna call it a night and think about it in the morning.
[06:43:06] <K`zan> :-), is isn't it :-).
[06:43:21] <K`zan> For pen making, but it does a very nice job cutting plexi.
[06:43:38] <K`zan> Motor is a bit anemic, but slow is the word.
[06:43:59] <K`zan> Anyhoo, catch y'all on the morrow, night all.
[06:44:13] <SkinnYPup> g'night
[07:29:50] <abegeman> new Version off gCncCam v0.4.4-1 had been release! see https://sourceforge.net/projects/gcnccam
[08:06:35] <micges> good mornig
[08:15:45] <Sweeper> yo
[08:19:21] <Sweeper> * Sweeper plays with his new hot air gun
[10:51:56] <alex_joni> 'lo
[10:53:41] <anonimasu> hello
[10:55:55] <alex_joni> what's up?
[11:22:33] <anonimasu_> not much is up cad drawing stuff
[11:23:50] <alex_joni> anonimasu_: how did your cut go?
[11:23:59] <alex_joni> you said you were going to try a 2-flute cutter
[12:04:02] <Guest993> Guest993 is now known as skunkworks_
[12:05:46] <alex_joni> morning samco
[12:09:28] <skunkworks_> Good morning alex. 2 live cd boots.. starting an actual install right now.
[12:10:38] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[12:13:31] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: yay
[12:13:51] <alex_joni> I'm trying a boot on my dapper box now (it's an older PC with only 256MB ram..)
[12:14:40] <alex_joni> theoretically it shouldn't boot (but maybe it picks up the swap, and still does)
[12:17:49] <skunkworks_> Steve!
[12:18:30] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: how long before the 2.2.5 livecd?
[12:18:45] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: oh, it's up already :D
[12:35:59] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: that's for tonight
[12:36:04] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: I changed
[12:36:14] <anonimasu_> err I changed my design for something so I can skip a sensor ;)
[12:36:40] <alex_joni> heh, ok
[13:09:27] <BeIdentityCrisis> Anybody out there? I'm hoping someone can guide me in the right direction:
[13:09:49] <BeIdentityCrisis> I'm trying to discover the best method for touching-off my z after a tool change.
[13:10:41] <BeIdentityCrisis> I'd like to make a touch-off sensor and have Axis automagically drop the z until it hits the sensor and use that position for the touch-off. Is this possible?
[13:11:45] <cradek> yes that's a great way to handle it
[13:12:02] <BeIdentityCrisis> :) great! but how?
[13:12:15] <cradek> here is the gcode I use to do that: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc?rev=1.4
[13:12:31] <cradek> it probably also came with your emc2 install
[13:12:59] <BeIdentityCrisis> oh, ok.
[13:13:09] <cradek> you only have to hook your sensor to motion.probe-input in HAL. Then you use the G38.2 probing gcode to do the work.
[13:13:35] <BeIdentityCrisis> so would I "interleave" that gcode with my actual working gcode files?
[13:13:51] <BeIdentityCrisis> or can it be connected to the tool-change command?
[13:14:34] <cradek> have a closer look at that file. you do have to run some extra gcode after tool changes.
[13:15:52] <cradek> there is currently no way to automatically measure a tool when you call M6. but your gcode can do it for you.
[13:15:56] <BeIdentityCrisis> so, generally, I'd either modify the gcode by hand or get my CAM to do it. but there are changes required in the working files.
[13:16:05] <cradek> yes
[13:16:20] <cradek> if using cam, maybe you can get your postprocessor to add the code for you
[13:16:32] <BeIdentityCrisis> ok, I can work with this! thanks for your help.
[13:16:42] <cradek> welcome, hope you get it going.
[13:31:38] <BigJohnT> alex_joni are you here?
[13:32:25] <BigJohnT> anyhow I only have a minute then I'm off to work.
[13:33:05] <BigJohnT> Arturo Duncan at CNC4PC is sending me a pendant with MPG to work out the details of using one with EMC
[13:33:16] <BigJohnT> gotta go
[13:33:22] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: sounds good
[13:33:28] <alex_joni> (darn, too slow :)
[13:42:59] <skunkworks_> they fixed the 'picking your location' so it isn't so spastic picking from the map.
[13:43:01] <skunkworks_> neat
[13:45:12] <cradek> that MPG looks very straightforward to hook up (if you get their interface board)
[13:59:22] <jepler> yep, it looks like they provide adequate information on interfacing it
[14:00:28] <cradek> it's tempting to tell aram I'd build a hal file for him if he'd buy me one
[14:00:48] <cradek> but, I'd rather he figure it out
[14:01:12] <cradek> he's been using (or trying to use) emc2 for a couple years now. he should be able to do it.
[14:02:26] <SWPadnos> just got to keep the 24V supply away from the 5V encoder
[14:02:46] <cradek> looks like they make a nice interface board that powers it all and plugs directly into a parport
[14:02:58] <jymm> Yeah! Use the 48VDC on the 5VDC encoder instead!
[14:05:51] <SWPadnos> hmmm. that wiring diagram doesn't make sense
[14:06:30] <SWPadnos> pins 9 and 10 seem to have double duty (but different wire colors) for the 6-axis version
[14:07:01] <SWPadnos> same with 3 and 4 - the line driver version has different colors but the same functions (A and B)
[14:29:35] <alex_joni> hi abegeman
[14:29:41] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: around?
[14:30:01] <BigJohnT> yup
[14:30:15] <alex_joni> did you update wiki with GCncCam ?
[14:30:19] <alex_joni> or was it someone else?
[14:30:34] <BigJohnT> nope it was someone else
[14:30:50] <BigJohnT> hmmm, tomp mayby
[14:30:52] <alex_joni> might have been tomp
[14:30:53] <BigJohnT> maybe
[14:31:00] <alex_joni> anyways.. abegeman is now here
[14:31:09] <BigJohnT> cool
[14:31:23] <BigJohnT> is he the author?
[14:31:29] <alex_joni> so he said :)
[14:31:48] <alex_joni> (and he said he wants info on how he could improve it :)
[14:32:10] <abegeman> i like the wiki an i hope i could get rid of some bus allready
[14:32:38] <alex_joni> abegeman: one thing that would be interesting/valuable
[14:33:02] <BigJohnT> I took a brief look yesterday at the tutorial as you know I was d/l the CVS yesterday...
[14:33:05] <alex_joni> have GCncCam work as a filter for emc2 (take the input file as a parameter, and output the result on stdout)
[14:33:06] <abegeman> unit conversion and millig text
[14:33:51] <abegeman> no it is a seperate program
[14:34:23] <alex_joni> abegeman: I know it's a separate program
[14:34:31] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gui_axis.html#r1_11_1 <- take a look at that
[14:35:12] <BigJohnT> abegeman: some of my g code generators send the output to EMC
[14:35:43] <alex_joni> abegeman: I'm not saying it has to be included with emc2
[14:36:09] <alex_joni> but it would be nice if they could be made to be interoperable (and it's no drawback I can see..)
[14:36:21] <abegeman> by some afort gCncCam could work as filter. But a needs a lot of milling information for each cad layer
[14:36:34] <alex_joni> abegeman: it still would have a GUI
[14:36:50] <alex_joni> but instead of saving the CAM output to a file it would write it to stdout
[14:37:06] <BigJohnT> that would put it into EMC directly
[14:37:11] <alex_joni> abegeman: but that's not really something crucial at this point
[14:37:31] <alex_joni> I haven't used it yet, but I'm sure there are loads of other improvements wanted
[14:37:32] <BigJohnT> abegeman: what did you write the program in?
[14:37:39] <abegeman> the next big relase should include pocketing with island detection (complecate allgoritm)
[14:38:14] <abegeman> the program is written in C++ unsing gnomemm (gtkmm)
[14:39:01] <BigJohnT> cool, the ones I wrote were in python and you can open them up from Axis in EMC
[14:40:46] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: Arturo Duncan from CNC4PC is sending me a pendant with a MPG to work out the details of using it with EMC
[14:41:13] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: I saw that, cool
[14:41:19] <alex_joni> lucky you :P
[14:41:24] <SWPadnos> BigJohnT, look out for copy/paste errors in the pinout :)
[14:41:38] <BigJohnT> on the docs?
[14:41:50] <alex_joni> yeah, trust no-one
[14:41:55] <alex_joni> except your multimeter
[14:42:00] <BigJohnT> ok, thanks for the heads up
[14:42:06] <SWPadnos> the pinout has a couple of places where it looks like he copied rows of the table but forgot to change the pin names
[14:42:08] <BigJohnT> and hal
[14:42:23] <SWPadnos> (pins 3,4 and 9,10 at least)
[14:42:31] <SWPadnos> err - numbers that is
[14:43:00] <BigJohnT> ok, I'll check it out close when I get it...
[14:43:22] <BigJohnT> makes me wonder if there should be a comp for a MPG?
[14:43:27] <SWPadnos> nope
[14:43:39] <abegeman> buy, buy
[14:43:43] <alex_joni> bye
[14:43:45] <SWPadnos> there are a few already: encoder, halui
[14:43:55] <BigJohnT> ok
[14:44:10] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: no real advantage for a special comp
[14:44:18] <alex_joni> except that it will lack flexibility
[14:44:21] <BigJohnT> ok, just thinking out loud
[14:44:25] <alex_joni> (for a different MPG)
[14:44:25] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, I think that pendant will require a breakout board
[14:44:34] <cradek> SWPadnos: they sell one
[14:44:35] <BigJohnT> to get the 5v to it?
[14:44:48] <cradek> yes for power
[14:44:51] <BigJohnT> he is sending both to me
[14:44:53] <SWPadnos> the wiring HTML page shows USB for 5V, and has the LED in the data pins
[14:45:15] <SWPadnos> well, you also can't use the data port for both directions at once (most of the time
[14:45:19] <cradek> oh I didn't look too closely at the adapter thingy pinout
[14:45:40] <SWPadnos> I didn't look at that, but there's a chart on one of the pages that shows the connections and MACH settings
[14:46:13] <cradek> it said something about brains, so I knew that information wasn't for me
[14:46:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:46:34] <SWPadnos> what a great name for plug-ins
[14:46:40] <alex_joni> brains?
[14:46:52] <SWPadnos> .brn files - plug-ins for Mach
[14:47:51] <SWPadnos> (from what I saw)
[14:48:07] <alex_joni> got a link ?
[14:48:22] <BigJohnT> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=158
[14:48:37] <alex_joni> ty
[14:48:38] <SWPadnos> http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/guide_for_MPG2_On_LPT2.htm
[14:48:40] <jepler> I looked at one long enough to see that it's a binary format; probably no use to any other software in the world
[14:48:47] <jepler> (barn files, that is)
[14:49:26] <SWPadnos> likely some VB thing
[14:49:30] <SWPadnos> or not. who cares
[14:49:57] <cradek> can I get a backup of my brain (or barn) in one file?
[14:50:10] <SWPadnos> your brain backup is in the barn, silly
[14:50:41] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT needs to get some work done...
[14:51:07] <SWPadnos> there's an idea
[14:52:19] <alex_joni> visual-barn?
[14:53:14] <cradek> "All posts expire in 30 days by default now." <- pastebin.ca
[14:53:28] <alex_joni> no more google indexing by default now
[14:53:52] <alex_joni> cradek: fine by me
[14:55:32] <alex_joni> whee.. 5i20 + a couple 7I66 sounds interesting
[14:55:40] <alex_joni> *loads* of I/O
[15:42:27] <cradek> I wish I could find 234 or 246 blocks with 1/2-13 holes to match my T slot clamp stuff
[15:42:38] <cradek> oh, and for cheap too :-)
[15:46:18] <jepler> alex_joni: oh, more new goodies coming up from mesa? cool.
[15:57:42] <fenn> cradek: lucky you, if you get them cheap enough they wont be hardened :)
[15:57:55] <cradek> heh
[16:35:52] <jepler> Recommended packages:
[16:35:52] <jepler> cowdancer
[16:40:55] <cradek> uh huh.
[18:20:29] <cradek> Subject: [emc-users] Should the US switch to metric??
[18:23:05] <skunkworks_> yes
[18:23:13] <skunkworks_> :)
[18:23:35] <cradek> Subject: [emc-users] OT: 4-cycle weed whackers
[18:24:15] <cradek> Subject: [emc-users] Firefox fatal fault? (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastPage)
[18:24:25] <skunkworks_> subject: [emc-users] OT: emc users dating service.
[18:24:27] <cradek> our mailing list is better than web bbses
[18:24:50] <skunkworks_> are you actually getting some of the subjects?
[18:25:06] <SkinnYPup> lol gotta start opening those digests in my inbox more often
[18:25:08] <cradek> the subjects are stolen verbatim from a web bbs I sometimes read
[18:25:13] <skunkworks_> heh
[18:25:15] <cradek> I prepended [emc-users] to be funny
[18:25:27] <skunkworks_> I thought maybe you where getting some funky spam
[18:27:05] <cradek> and there's a whole excited thread about some musical gcode someone wrote with only one voice: http://www3.telus.net/metalshopborealis/76tbones.txt
[18:32:01] <skunkworks_> video
[18:32:02] <skunkworks_> http://www3.telus.net/metalshopborealis/76tbones.wmv
[18:32:17] <skunkworks_> have you posted the video of daisy yet?
[18:32:51] <cradek> I thought someone did, but I didn't find it on youtube
[18:33:15] <cradek> not many people have 4 axes to play it right
[18:33:24] <cradek> it's a little lame with 3
[18:34:34] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R26yo7P9mwA&eurl=http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51348&highlight=music
[18:35:29] <cradek> haha
[18:35:32] <cradek> I love that
[18:35:42] <cradek> it's better with all the notes though
[18:35:56] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:36:09] <skunkworks_> right - sure it is only 3 axis
[18:36:11] <anonimasu> damn I hate steppers with a passion
[18:40:02] <cradek> O200 call [1] [#104] [#100/2.0] [#104/2.0] [#107/2.0] (cra-) (G)
[18:40:02] <cradek> O200 call [1] [#100] [#100/2.0] [#104/2.0] [#109/2.0] (-zy) (Em)
[18:40:24] <cradek> can't tell these apart without an A axis. someone should fix it...
[18:40:53] <jepler> perhaps the best thing to do is just program in the melody and require emc to improvise the harmony on each run
[18:41:46] <skunkworks_> heh
[18:43:22] <skunkworks_> cradek: you need to make a 5 axis daisy
[18:43:59] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ is not musical - 5 axis daisy possible?
[18:46:06] <cradek> sure, a lot of chords naturally benefit from 4 notes, like the seventhses
[18:48:28] <cradek> so you could do all of those plus an axis for the melody
[18:49:21] <cradek> 3 finger/axis (heh) chords mean you leave something out - usually the fifth
[18:49:30] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ nods like he knows what chris is talking about.
[18:52:49] <jepler> hm gcode needs a random number generator
[18:53:15] <cradek> jepler: you can't possibly be right about that
[18:53:25] <alex_joni> you can get randomness into g-code
[18:53:28] <alex_joni> using M66
[18:53:34] <alex_joni> and some M1xx before that
[18:53:41] <jepler> alex_joni: that's evil
[18:53:44] <jepler> but clever
[18:53:49] <cradek> and evil
[18:54:10] <alex_joni> it was supposed to be evil :)
[18:55:04] <SWPadnos> m103: dd if=/dev/urandom bs=8 | <step 2> | /bin/sh -C `awk {print halcmd sets randomsig $1}`
[18:55:08] <SWPadnos> or something like that :)
[18:55:17] <cradek> skunkworks_: the problem with daisy on a 3 axis machine is that you can't really play a melody note and a seventh chord with 3 notes... no matter what two notes you pick for the chord, it mutates into something else
[18:55:33] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: that's what I meant
[18:55:39] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:55:44] <SWPadnos> the trick is writing step 2 ;)
[18:57:00] <skunkworks_> cradek: http://images.myonlinesite.com/cnc/use/20070902/videos.html
[18:57:11] <skunkworks_> 4 axis same machine. says it isn't quite right
[18:57:44] <cradek> I bet the A scale is wrong
[18:57:59] <skunkworks_> More music... 4 axis version. Something does not sound quite right... I think I need to check the A axis configs a bit. The max acceleration might be set a bit too low.
[18:58:11] <skunkworks_> ^quote
[18:58:18] <cradek> yeah the accel is definitely lower
[18:58:32] <cradek> sounds a bit like a junior high school band
[18:59:58] <skunkworks_> heh :)
[19:00:26] <skunkworks_> More music... 4 axis version. Something does not sound quite right... I think I need to check the A axis configs a bit. The max acceleration might be set a bit too low.
[19:00:30] <skunkworks_> oops
[19:00:44] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=419449&postcount=16
[19:02:11] <cradek> huh, that's in a mach forum
[19:04:42] <skunkworks_> odd ;)
[20:02:26] <tomp2> vismach^2 http://www.ceit.es/mechanics/projects/Virtool/Software.htm
[20:14:37] <tomp2> heh and Will Shackleford (NIST) wrote an NML Java - VRML tool http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/documents/stouffer/Controller_Driven_VRML.pdf
[21:45:18] <anonimasu> hmm
[21:52:29] <dmess> hi all
[21:56:34] <anonimasu> hello
[21:56:40] <anonimasu> * anonimasu still havent tried the 2 flute tools
[21:56:49] <anonimasu> I had one 10mm 2 flute..
[21:56:56] <anonimasu> now all i have are 6mm tools since I lost it.
[21:57:12] <anonimasu> well, 4 and 6..
[21:57:45] <anonimasu> and I found some random 2 flute carbide tool in a box ^_ ^
[22:24:59] <anonimasu> hey tomp
[22:38:23] <tomp1> yo!
[22:40:32] <tomp1> goin home , bbl
[22:46:55] <gene> any video guru's here? I get floating message on monitor about synch out of range if I switch "vesa" to "nv" in xorg.conf
[22:47:25] <alex_joni> dpkg-reconfigure xorg-server
[22:47:44] <gene> with a sudo I expect?
[22:47:50] <alex_joni> yeah
[22:47:57] <gene> Ok, bbl
[22:48:00] <alex_joni> but I'm off to bed.. so don't expect me to help
[22:48:08] <alex_joni> and make a backup of your working xorg.conf
[22:48:15] <alex_joni> g'night
[22:50:05] <gene> That is strange indeed "xorg-server" is not installed! I'm runninjg it!
[22:54:51] <alex_joni> might be another name
[22:55:16] <alex_joni> dpkg -l *xorg*server*
[22:55:21] <jepler> xserver-xorg?
[22:58:14] <dmess> i had a similar thing with -SSH last week.. could run it.. but a package puked and said it wasnt there...
[23:10:23] <gene> I'd just installed the x-window-core which removed swrast & killed emc, had to pull it and reinstal swrast, and insssstall driconf and xdriinfo, both of which now claim that libGL is too old.
[23:10:45] <gene> feature creep with LTS? Boggles the mind
[23:13:53] <gene> Does having adept running lock dpkg out of the database?
[23:17:35] <gene> I guess not, stopping it doesn't make the dpkg line work
[23:33:14] <jt_> jt_ is now known as BigJohnT
[23:38:28] <emtffkev> Got a problem that I'm not sure is actually directly related to EMC wondering if anyone can help me troubleshoot? I am having a problem with alot of missed steps and sometimes the motors will even lock which throws my coordinates way off for the next move.
[23:39:35] <cradek> emtffkev: do you ever get the 'unexpected realtime delay' error?
[23:40:03] <emtffkev> no I haven't seen that error
[23:40:11] <cradek> what emc version are you running?
[23:40:17] <emtffkev> actually I don't get any errors at all, it just stalls
[23:40:24] <emtffkev> 2.2.3
[23:41:21] <cradek> acceleration or velocity too high can cause this because steppers lose torque as you go faster. have you tried reducing them?
[23:42:19] <emtffkev> Well, if I start out high it does as you say and stalls alot, as I lower it, it does get better to a certain point and then gets worse again...However...Even when it is better it is still locking up enough to not be reliable enough to cut any parts with
[23:42:46] <cradek> tell me about your steppers, drivers, power supply, etc
[23:44:15] <emtffkev> Steppers are the kelling tech. 425 oz/in, I have the hobbycnc Pro driver board, Power supply for now due to budgetary constraints is a homebuilt supply made by hooking to computer PSU's in series getting about 23.5 vdc
[23:44:35] <emtffkev> I know computer psu's are bad, but thats all I have for now
[23:44:42] <cradek> ok
[23:45:12] <cradek> I see the hobbycnc has configurable microstepping. how is it set?
[23:45:31] <emtffkev> I've tried 1/2 and 1/4 stepping both with no good results
[23:45:44] <emtffkev> I don't think I have enough computer for anything higher than 1/4
[23:46:00] <cradek> have you watched your power supply output with a scope or voltmeter while performing these moves that cause trouble?
[23:46:25] <cradek> 1/4 should be plenty, I was just checking to be sure you were not using full stepping
[23:47:11] <emtffkev> I don't have access to a scope to do and from what I have seen I am maintaining voltage, but it is hard to catch during one of its trouble moments because they are not predictable. They don't have a certain move or time that it occurs just at random
[23:49:27] <emtffkev> I think I can rule out machine problems, the machine itself functions without any major hangups or anything
[23:49:38] <cradek> what kind of computer are you using?
[23:49:41] <emtffkev> I do think my week link is the PC I'm using
[23:49:51] <emtffkev> its a hombuilt older one I used to use as a server
[23:50:10] <cradek> ok, so not a laptop or anything unusual like that
[23:50:11] <emtffkev> about 1.5ghz amd processor, 512mb ram
[23:50:18] <emtffkev> no
[23:50:18] <cradek> that should be perfectly fine
[23:50:21] <emtffkev> its a desktop
[23:50:52] <dmess> version issues??
[23:51:16] <cradek> usually a problem with step pulse generation will show up as a 'unexpected realtime delay' error. if you have never seen this it's a good sign the computer is working well. you could run latency-test for a while to be sure.
[23:51:44] <emtffkev> I've tried running the latency test before but never for more than 10 minutes
[23:51:47] <emtffkev> should I try longer?
[23:52:00] <emtffkev> dmess: What type of version issues do you mean?
[23:52:04] <cradek> is all your wiring good and secure? a missing step pulse or two, or a glitch on the direction line, can stall a motor.
[23:52:26] <emtffkev> I feel it's good and secure...
[23:52:48] <emtffkev> 22g solid copper wiring for the motor controls
[23:52:53] <dmess> have you mad any updates recently
[23:52:55] <cradek> when the machine seems to be working, does it have plenty of torque overhead? I mean, if you press against a moving axis, can you easily cause a stall?
[23:53:22] <emtffkev> nope, haven't updated since I installed from the live cd at 2.2.3
[23:53:29] <emtffkev> It has alot of torque when its running
[23:53:40] <dmess> there.... 2/2/3
[23:53:45] <emtffkev> it would tear itself apart if I wasn't careful and let it go beyond limits
[23:53:49] <cradek> ok so it's not just "barely" working torquewise
[23:54:44] <emtffkev> dmess: Is 2.2.3 a bad version?
[23:54:57] <cradek> hmm I'm not sure what to suggest. I think you have tried most of what I can think of to recommend
[23:55:14] <dmess> no.. but that is NEWER hardware than it would be used to
[23:55:28] <cradek> there's no reason not to update but I don't think it will fix your problem.
[23:55:47] <emtffkev> I've tried to exhaust my resources before I try buggin other people lol...I'm about at the end of my chain
[23:56:13] <dmess> internal stepper pulse generation right??
[23:56:14] <emtffkev> I'm gonna try an update and see if it might clean up my pulses? Maybe I need to look into different wiring because of interference
[23:56:43] <emtffkev> dmess: to be honost with you I'm new to all of this so I'm not quite sure what you mean
[23:57:00] <cradek> yes software step generation.
[23:57:56] <cradek> I need to run, I hope you find the problem emtffkev. maybe others have more advice meanwhile.
[23:58:01] <emtffkev> Is there information on the website for updating, I am new to Ubuntu since I've started this I used to use slackware and noticed alot of different things
[23:58:08] <emtffkev> Thanks for the help Cradek
[23:58:18] <dmess> box should be fast enuf.... pound a live cd int it and see what happens
[23:58:56] <emtffkev> I'm gonna try that and I'll check back and let ya'll know how it works out
[23:59:54] <tomp> uncouple the load ( screws) and run endless circles, listeningg for the rythymn of the motors for a LONG time... this separates the motor & driver from the load. If you hear/see it go wrong, then look into drivers and wiring and maximums. else look into the mechanics.