#emc | Logs for 2008-04-25

[00:30:55] <jepler> JymmmEMC: according to wikipedia, the bandwidth of single-link dvi is about 4 Gb/s, with dual-link being twice that. I suspect you'd have trouble writing data at that high a rate on commodity storage devices. For instance, the 15krpm SAS disk MBA3300 claims 179MB/s, so you'll need 3 of them running full-out to store 4Gb/s of data. The 3 drives'll fill up after half an hour.
[02:22:12] <JymmmEMC> jepler: I wonder if there's a a subset of DVI that could be used, though not sure it would do any good as there's no ausio on DVI iirc
[02:26:11] <LawrenceG> Hey JymmmEMC ... Mr Gates doesnt want you near that stream!
[02:34:28] <dmess> hi all
[02:39:01] <jepler> wow, *here* is the best schematic I've seen in a long time. I love the antialiased fonts. http://www.epanorama.net/digipack/Digi_Pack/Board.jpg
[02:41:44] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: I know =)
[02:48:53] <jmkasunich> jepler: you haven't used good schematic software
[03:01:07] <eric_U> jmkasunich, what software to you use? Cadence is kicking my butt
[03:03:43] <jmkasunich> at work we used to use PADS PowerLogic
[03:03:56] <jmkasunich> now they're moving us to Mentor Graphics Expedition
[03:03:57] <jmkasunich> I haven
[03:04:11] <jmkasunich> haven't done a Mentor schematic yet, dunno how they're gonna look
[03:04:53] <eric_U> do some editors clean up your schematics for you?
[03:05:28] <jmkasunich> not that I know of
[03:05:45] <jmkasunich> the look of a schematic is a combination of the library symbols, fonts, and the guy who drew it
[03:05:50] <eric_U> ok, so all the schematics I draw would still look like crap
[03:05:59] <jmkasunich> the symbols in that one jepler posted are hideous (IMO)
[03:06:00] <jepler> yeah mine always end up cluttered messes
[03:06:11] <jmkasunich> the transistors with really fat vertical lines, ditto the caps
[03:06:13] <jmkasunich> yuck
[03:06:32] <jepler> those are the normal eagle symbols so I've become immune to them. it's the jpeg artifacts that I was really bitching about
[03:07:09] <eric_U> I don't know if the libs we get from cadence are normal, I'm tired of drawing footprints and schematic symbols for things like dsub connectors
[03:07:17] <jmkasunich> it didn't register for me (at first) that it was a jpeg
[03:07:41] <eric_U> that doesn't help the readability
[03:07:49] <jmkasunich> IMO anything like drawings or schematics should never be turned into a bitmap until it is about to hit a display device (printer or screen)
[03:08:27] <jepler> fwiw I agree with you
[03:08:36] <eric_U> I tried to plot my schematic to a pdf today, they told me they couldn't find my licence
[03:09:51] <jmkasunich> you need a license to plot to pdf?
[03:10:04] <eric_U> that's what I wanted to know
[03:10:25] <jmkasunich> these days it sometimes seems you need a license to take a leak
[03:10:32] <eric_U> solidworks does that with the educational license as well
[03:11:26] <eric_U> you can do whatever you want except print the drawing without a educational use statement on the dwg
[03:11:48] <eric_U> I don't know if cadence has the same limitation
[03:12:25] <eric_U> the thing that I find pretty amazing is that universities don't teach how to make circuit boards
[03:12:44] <jmkasunich> on a completely unrelated note, I absolutely hate milling tough steel with the side of an endmill
[03:12:59] <eric_U> judging by the online tutorials, they just make chips
[03:13:01] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich picks thousands of tiny sharp steel splinders out of his fingers
[03:13:27] <eric_U> I hate milling steel period
[03:13:29] <jmkasunich> splinters that is - needles even
[03:13:47] <eric_U> hoping to get flood coolant to help with that
[03:13:50] <jepler> * jepler notices that he's mixed eu-style and us-style resistor symbols on his schematic
[03:13:58] <jepler> (I started from somebody else's schematic then added us symbols)
[03:14:09] <toastydeath> what's wrong with steel
[03:14:23] <eric_U> toastydeath mind your own business
[03:14:24] <jepler> ooh, it's late for me .. night folks
[03:14:24] <toastydeath> i like steel
[03:14:27] <toastydeath> hahaha
[03:14:47] <eric_U> you probably have flood coolant
[03:14:54] <eric_U> and rigid machines
[03:15:10] <toastydeath> or a bridgeport?
[03:19:26] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: if you use the side of an end mill to clean up a saw cut edge on a piece of A2, don't you get those fscking little needle chips?
[03:20:20] <eric_U> I tend to get chips like that on side milling
[03:20:43] <jmkasunich> the tougher steels are worse
[03:20:52] <eric_U> jmkasunich: he likes the pain
[03:20:56] <jmkasunich> 12L14 you get regular chips
[03:21:15] <toastydeath> jmkasunich: i get beefy needle chips
[03:21:23] <toastydeath> if it's chattering i step it down a couple times
[03:21:43] <jmkasunich> I was cleaning up the edge of something 3/16" thick
[03:21:48] <toastydeath> oh.
[03:22:04] <toastydeath> all i know is feed rate cures needles
[03:22:12] <toastydeath> if the machine will do it obv
[03:22:17] <jmkasunich> thats my problem
[03:22:31] <toastydeath> i often drop the spindle speed a good deal to make up for it
[03:22:38] <toastydeath> on like a bridgeport
[03:22:57] <toastydeath> otherwise, i feel bad for your hands and can identify =(
[03:22:58] <jmkasunich> full depth (3/16), 5/16" end mill, 1800 RPM, taking about 0.020 off, feeding at 2ipm
[03:23:17] <eric_U> rpm too high?
[03:23:29] <jmkasunich> crap, yeay
[03:23:31] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:23:37] <jmkasunich> I made a mental math error
[03:23:47] <toastydeath> yeah man you need like a 7-10 ipm thingy with a 4 flute em
[03:23:49] <jmkasunich> I thought I was around 80-90 FPM, but I think I was close to double that
[03:23:51] <toastydeath> at 1800
[03:24:01] <ds2> rpm is about right esp. if it is carbide
[03:24:07] <jmkasunich> HSS, 2 flute
[03:24:22] <toastydeath> then you're about 5 ipm minimum
[03:24:35] <toastydeath> i would keep dropping the spindle and bumping the feed
[03:24:36] <jmkasunich> 147 SFM
[03:24:51] <jmkasunich> I meant to go slower - I thought I was only doing 80-90
[03:25:03] <toastydeath> ownt.
[03:25:17] <jmkasunich> I also thought I was doing about 0.002 per flute, but it was only 0.001
[03:25:20] <jmkasunich> brainfart
[03:25:51] <jmkasunich> anyway, the milling (and drilling) is done
[03:26:23] <jmkasunich> nothing left but pseudo-lapping and polishing - think I'll start that tomorrow
[03:27:54] <toastydeath> a+
[03:28:25] <jmkasunich> anybody know any secrets for getting a really smooth and flat surface?
[03:28:36] <toastydeath> ..other than lapping or scraping?
[03:28:37] <jmkasunich> these pieces are already ground flat stock, 1" x 2"
[03:29:07] <jmkasunich> I'm planning on sticking some 600 silicon carbide grit side up on the machine table and rubbing them around
[03:29:11] <jmkasunich> then go to 1200
[03:29:14] <eric_U> if they came from Enco, send them back
[03:29:39] <jmkasunich> they come from slices off a piece of 3/16" x 2" x 18" GFS
[03:29:51] <eric_U> kidding, I'm disgruntled with how the ground stock I got from them looked
[03:30:21] <jmkasunich> I think I got this from McMaster - its been here for years, left over from some other job (about 1/3 of the original piece)
[03:30:28] <eric_U> I think somebody's kid deburred them and then started making abstract art all over the surface
[03:30:37] <jmkasunich> yuck
[03:31:03] <eric_U> the stuff I got from mcmaster was much better
[03:31:14] <jmkasunich> my goal here is to be able to stick these pieces on either end of a stack of gage blocks and use them to set inside mics, etc
[03:31:37] <jmkasunich> I know I won't get gage block finish or flatness, but I want to get as close as I can
[03:32:16] <jmkasunich> (they won't wring of course - my gage blocks are 1" square with a 1/4" hole thru the middle, I'll be gently clamping these things to the stack with a 6/32 threaded rod thru the hole
[03:32:16] <eric_U> I know how to make them shiny, flat not so much
[03:32:29] <jmkasunich> how shiny?
[03:32:35] <eric_U> half micron
[03:32:37] <jmkasunich> (how to make I mean)
[03:32:37] <toastydeath> i dunno man, without a legit lapping rig i am not sure how that will turn out
[03:33:03] <eric_U> the trick with shiny is to go in 45 degree increments
[03:33:23] <eric_U> so you knock down the ridges
[03:33:34] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: I'm hoping that since they are only 1x2 it won't be too curved overall
[03:33:46] <jmkasunich> I know the edges will get rounded a little, but I'll avoid them in use
[03:34:02] <eric_U> turns out if you polish to 1/2 micron, the light bounces off
[03:34:14] <eric_U> and you can't see the surface in your microscope
[03:34:43] <eric_U> using oblique lighting
[03:35:55] <toastydeath> jmkasunich: i don't think it will be curved, i think you're going to get a bunch of high and low spots
[03:36:11] <toastydeath> but the only way to see is try, eh?
[03:36:40] <eric_U> I have a zygo surface measuring machine that will measure how flat it is for you
[03:37:00] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: yep, just gotta try
[03:37:07] <eric_U> to less than a nanometer
[03:37:21] <jmkasunich> thats a bit more than I need
[03:37:38] <jmkasunich> the gage blocks are in 0.0001" increments, and I believe they are accurate to 50 microinches
[03:37:40] <eric_U> it makes everyone look like a piker "you call that flat?"
[03:38:17] <toastydeath> jmkasunich: if you know anyone with an optical flat and a monochromatic light you can check your results
[03:38:46] <eric_U> actually, I have an interferometric flatness tester that works pretty well
[03:38:57] <eric_U> sitting under my desk
[03:39:13] <jmkasunich> I have a surface plate and dykem high-spot blue - that will have to be good enough
[03:39:25] <toastydeath> fair enough man
[03:41:11] <jmkasunich> heh, I'm glad I'm not going for parallelism
[03:41:24] <jmkasunich> these pieces are off by 0.00015 over 2"
[03:41:40] <eric_U> never quite figured out how to do the parallelism thing
[03:41:54] <toastydeath> parallelism scraping or lapping
[03:42:42] <toastydeath> lapping you just weight the high end
[03:43:02] <eric_U> how do you measure?
[03:43:10] <toastydeath> comparator of some sort
[03:43:16] <eric_U> eh
[03:43:21] <jmkasunich> I have a very nice mix
[03:43:23] <jmkasunich> mic
[03:44:02] <jmkasunich> this one, only the -A model http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140214555994
[03:44:18] <toastydeath> cool man
[03:46:03] <jmkasunich> wow - 30 seconds of "lapping" with 500 grit took off 0.0001
[03:46:27] <jmkasunich> I think it just took off the high spots from grinding - the grind marks are still _very_ visible
[03:46:47] <toastydeath> that is good
[03:47:50] <tomp> cradek: i think you liked pminmo's l297/298 for small steppers, any opinion on his A3977 pcb ( down to 1/8 step ) ?
[03:48:20] <cradek> tomp: sorry, no idea
[03:50:41] <cradek> jmkasunich: I know how to get a black polish on steel - but not how to make sure it's flat
[03:51:32] <jmkasunich> how do you do the polish?
[03:51:40] <cradek> I have also fit parts using 500-600 grit cloth paper, and you can do .0001-2, but it never turns out at all flat
[03:52:06] <cradek> oilstone dust and then diamantine on brass
[03:52:21] <cradek> (and I've only done tiny parts)
[03:52:25] <jmkasunich> a lap IOW
[03:52:29] <cradek> yes
[03:52:48] <jmkasunich> wonder why it doesn't wind up flat?
[03:53:13] <cradek> I think you get a sphere, but I can't say why I think that
[03:53:25] <toastydeath> because you are only using two surfaces
[03:53:29] <toastydeath> one is going to wear concave, the other convex
[03:53:33] <jmkasunich> true
[03:53:36] <cradek> yes but why?
[03:53:45] <jmkasunich> if the radius is sufficiently long though.....
[03:53:47] <toastydeath> because the rates of wear are different
[03:53:54] <toastydeath> even in the same bar
[03:54:19] <toastydeath> plus you are not starting with two falts
[03:54:20] <toastydeath> *flats
[03:54:24] <toastydeath> but two irregular surfaces
[03:54:25] <jmkasunich> if one piece is bigger than the other (part is usually smaller than the lapping plate) the bigger one will go concave (less wear at the edges)
[03:54:43] <cradek> I think you can get .0002 - just mic it all over, and rub the high spots more
[03:55:11] <jmkasunich> that will just tell me that the sides are parallel to 0.0002
[03:55:12] <cradek> but obviously, I'm describing scraping
[03:55:17] <cradek> right
[03:55:29] <cradek> I didn't read back far enough to catch what your actual goal was :-)
[03:55:31] <jmkasunich> I'm already parallel to better than that
[03:55:38] <jmkasunich> one side flat and smooth
[03:55:42] <jmkasunich> other side doesn't matter
[03:56:05] <toastydeath> if you have three parts
[03:56:13] <toastydeath> you should be able to actually lap them flat
[03:56:34] <cradek> true
[03:56:45] <toastydeath> no sandpaper, no guesswork
[03:57:07] <jmkasunich> I think that's only strictly true for three round (or maybe square) parts
[03:57:13] <jmkasunich> mine are 1x2 rectangles
[03:57:24] <toastydeath> you should still be able to get them flatter
[03:57:34] <toastydeath> via three surfaces than without
[03:57:45] <cradek> can you just "borrow" a surface grinder somewhere nearby?
[03:59:29] <jmkasunich> no
[03:59:39] <jmkasunich> besides, the pieces were ground to start with
[04:00:03] <jmkasunich> I'm trying to go from good to very good, not from crap (milled) to good
[04:01:03] <cradek> out of my league/skillset I think
[04:02:57] <toastydeath> i don't think you are going to actually beat ground
[04:03:05] <toastydeath> without some prior practice and verification
[04:03:21] <toastydeath> but obv. that depends on the quality of the initial grind.
[04:03:39] <jmkasunich> I'm getting much smoother than the original grind
[04:03:46] <jmkasunich> don't think I'm getting any flatter
[04:04:01] <toastydeath> yeah
[04:04:05] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[04:13:07] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: among the living?
[04:15:43] <tomp> http://www.mini-lathe.com/Lapping/Lapping.htm has some info, but they ended at 600 grit, which seems to be where you started =-O
[04:18:10] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:18:23] <jmkasunich> lapping with paper tends to round the edges - the paper is too squishy
[04:19:01] <jmkasunich> I started with paper, but then I took some of the oil/abrasive slurry and I'm rubbing the two pieces of steel on each other
[04:20:48] <tomp> lapping plate? ( cast iron thingy with squares, actually with grid of slots & lapping paste )
[04:21:04] <tomp> a toolmaker friend may have one
[04:21:34] <jmkasunich> heh - I've used my table saw table (cast iron) for that
[04:21:40] <tomp> :)
[04:22:06] <jmkasunich> in fact, right now I'm alternating between rubbing the plates on the saw table, and rubbing them on each other
[04:43:02] <alex_joni> * alex_joni yawns
[06:07:17] <K`zan> Power supply is done, gives me almost 34V!!!
[06:15:33] <K`zan> Next we get EMC figured out for the HobbyCNC card...
[06:15:44] <K`zan> Wheee, do that tomorrow, I'm beat.
[06:30:22] <gfixler> Anyone in here use anything Sherline, or similarly mini, or is it all Big Toys with you guys? :)
[06:33:45] <fenn> i have some vaporware
[06:34:35] <fenn> here's some pics of my lathe, i guess it counts as mini: http://fennetic.net/machines/lathe_modifications
[06:37:17] <gfixler> nice, you've done a lot of modding
[06:38:02] <fenn> with servo's: http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0785.JPG
[06:38:27] <gfixler> ah, the dream
[06:38:37] <gfixler> closed-loop, right?
[06:38:57] <gfixler> or is that necessary with a lathe?
[06:38:57] <fenn> well, there's no electronics yet
[06:39:03] <fenn> but it will be closed loop
[06:39:48] <gfixler> I just finished my first real modification to the Sherline mill
[06:39:55] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/collections/72157604713088268/
[06:40:10] <gfixler> a built-in vacuum system with 3/4" loc-line tubes
[06:43:32] <fenn> i think i'd just use a regular vacuum hose and a positioner like for dial indicators
[06:44:09] <gfixler> yeah, I was just feeling like being fancy
[06:44:49] <gfixler> I spend far more time building things to help me build things than I do building things
[06:45:08] <fenn> that's a good thing
[06:45:19] <gfixler> I figure it's all experience
[06:45:49] <fenn> i like your rubik cube. did you ever sell them?
[06:46:27] <gfixler> thanks - no, I've been too busy
[06:46:53] <gfixler> the Make crowd picked up on it, and sort of went to town with it, and I've since seen someone from China selling versions of them on Ebay for about $16/ea.
[06:47:43] <fenn> how does it feel to be a post-industrial non-millionaire? :)
[06:48:09] <gfixler> haha
[06:48:19] <gfixler> my ship will come in, I just know it :)
[06:51:04] <K`zan> Night folks
[09:39:56] <abegeman> new CAM for EMC2 has been releas on gcnccam.sourceforge.net
[12:42:57] <Guest104> Guest104 is now known as skunkworks_
[12:43:24] <skunkworks_> jepler: step-config is awesome
[12:45:47] <skunkworks_> I don't know how well this thing will work for circuit boards.. It is cable run and seens to need around 650 steps per inch with the driver set to 1000 steps per rev.
[12:46:36] <skunkworks_> it flys though.. I was running the axis at 540ipm acc set to 50in/s/s
[12:47:00] <skunkworks_> one thing - the fastest I could run the arcspiral was around 130ipm
[12:50:06] <skunkworks_> that would be 133 full steps per inch
[12:50:40] <skunkworks_> (I think it probably should be 666.666 steps per inch(I just did a quick measurment to get it close)
[12:51:54] <jepler> skunkworks_: what hardware are you playing with now?
[12:52:44] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKZYj51Exn0
[12:53:58] <skunkworks_> I just hooked the steppers into some parker drives I have.
[12:54:35] <jepler> that was the old control in the video?
[12:54:39] <skunkworks_> yes
[12:55:01] <skunkworks_> 'fluidmove' :) dos based - serial to the controller in the machine.
[12:55:29] <skunkworks_> I had to take it pretty far apart to get to the steppers to see current and such.
[12:56:05] <cradek> love your compaq 386 machine
[12:56:21] <skunkworks_> 486
[12:56:31] <cradek> ah, newer than I thought
[12:56:33] <skunkworks_> overdrive
[12:56:37] <skunkworks_> :)
[12:56:53] <skunkworks_> It is the only place that the software for the thing resides.
[12:57:12] <cradek> breakfast...
[12:57:23] <jepler> ooh it is?
[12:57:24] <cradek> hmm, maybe a backup copy (on a floppy?) is in order
[12:57:28] <cradek> bbl
[12:57:35] <skunkworks_> Yes.
[12:58:19] <skunkworks_> it was a trip down memory lane.. It has windows for workgroups on it - and wolf3d
[13:01:29] <skunkworks_> 666.66 steps per inch would give .0015.
[13:02:01] <skunkworks_> but I don't know how acurite those would be.
[13:02:18] <skunkworks_> (1000 steps per rev driver)
[13:03:03] <skunkworks_> might have to borrow an indicator. I could up the stepper driver to 2000 steps per rev)
[13:26:07] <JymmmEMC> skunkworksThere was no overdrive, there was DX2 and TURBO though =)
[13:32:21] <skunkworks_> I am looking right at it - Intel overdrive POPD5V
[13:33:15] <Dallur> Time to upgrade to Hardy Heron, hopefully I'll be back soon :)
[13:41:44] <skunkworks_> JymmmEMC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80486_OverDrive
[13:44:36] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks I dont care if I have an Overdrive CPU in my hand (literallly), DX2 & Turbo
[13:45:25] <skunkworks_> That is just goofy talk
[13:45:38] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks Qty: 2 actually
[13:51:34] <cradek> has anyone played with this? http://gcnccam.sourceforge.net/
[13:53:35] <archivist> we are waiting for you cradek :))
[13:54:40] <archivist> saw some nice toys at the big UK machine tool show yesterday
[14:00:27] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Do you know the developer?
[14:01:49] <JymmmEMC> cradek: I dont recognise the name... Arnd Begemann
[14:02:06] <cradek> nope
[14:03:48] <JymmmEMC> cradek: I guess not to shabby since it's rated as beta and only been around since February.
[14:04:13] <JymmmEMC> Though, I suspect he was working on it longer than that.
[14:15:18] <BigJohnT> to set up a computer to use with the CVS version am I better off just installing the live EMC cd or unbuntu?
[14:16:24] <cradek> the live cd is easiest
[14:16:32] <BigJohnT> ok thanks
[14:20:14] <BigJohnT> yea! third one is the charm it actually boots up from the live cd
[14:37:58] <tomp> the dload of gcnccam is behind the dload from HardyHeron ;)
[14:55:22] <skunkworks_> sourceforge is running a bit slow today
[15:19:27] <anonimasu> hello
[15:21:05] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: you there?
[15:32:32] <dimas> hi all
[15:33:05] <anonimasu> hello
[15:33:20] <dimas> * dimas just finished soldering L297/298 driver board...
[15:34:37] <cradek> anonimasu: he's never around on weekdays except evening
[15:35:58] <JymmmEMC> heh, I never realized that =)
[15:36:35] <anonimasu> hm, ok
[15:36:43] <anonimasu> I dont know the time there
[15:36:52] <cradek> late morning
[15:38:18] <anonimasu> ok
[15:38:19] <anonimasu> :)
[15:38:23] <K`zan> Morning folks!!
[15:39:59] <anonimasu> morning K`zan
[15:40:05] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is digging into bearing tolerances and stuff
[15:42:11] <anonimasu> trying to grasp what kind of precicsion you need to make spindle housings to
[15:43:15] <cradek> I'm not having any luck building gcnccam
[15:43:18] <K`zan> Sure don't know, but when I upgraded the uMill to belt drive it came with a new set of bearings. I would thing really tight.
[15:43:48] <K`zan> I'm using oak and skakeboard bearings for the head on the Pipe Dream :).
[15:43:48] <anonimasu> lol
[15:44:06] <anonimasu> im talking about p7 machine tool bearings :p
[15:44:16] <anonimasu> err p5..
[15:44:25] <anonimasu> that's abec 7
[15:44:46] <K`zan> Power supply is finished - ~34V. Next I need to get EMC going for the HobbyCNC drive and then hook up the steppers and see what happens.
[15:45:09] <anonimasu> and they probably cost around 800$
[15:45:26] <anonimasu> im looking at it because I'd like to get a quote how much a spindle housing and a shaft will cost to grind
[15:45:57] <anonimasu> just curious
[15:46:11] <K`zan> anonimasu: Sorry, can't be any help with it, WAY over my head at this point :-(.
[15:47:04] <anonimasu> :/
[15:50:24] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ normally just wings it.
[15:52:56] <anonimasu> skunkworks: so you'd wing it if you put 800$ into a set of bearings?
[15:53:08] <tomp> cradek: i tried dbl clking the deb and the 'package installer said there were 6 xtra pkgs needed. i ok'd that, and its still hung on file 0 of 6.
[15:53:44] <tomp> not like the xfer wont occur, but is like it didnt start
[15:54:10] <cradek> tomp: it may work for you then. ubuntu.com is extremely slow today for the obvious reason
[15:54:26] <cradek> but, I wanted to build it myself
[15:54:44] <tomp> ah! didnt see the files were from there, best o luck
[15:54:48] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ wouldn't probably ever pay $800 for bearings..
[15:55:29] <archivist> I wonder how good "standard" bearings are
[15:56:00] <anonimasu> good..
[15:56:21] <anonimasu> just not extremely good
[15:56:22] <anonimasu> :)
[15:59:09] <tomp> i hate it when firefox just suddenly dissappears, blowing away a dozen related tabs
[15:59:55] <anonimasu> archivist: the outside tolerance of bearings are the following: from skf's website
[16:00:17] <anonimasu> Normal(cln/cl7c) = 0 to -13µm
[16:01:26] <archivist> hmm
[16:01:51] <anonimasu> and P5 = 0 to -9µm
[16:02:47] <archivist> or buy balls and grind ways on the spindle
[16:03:34] <anonimasu> http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/jsp/viewers/tableViewer.jsp?tableName=1_0_tt3&maincatalogue=1&lang=en
[16:04:38] <anonimasu> http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/jsp/viewers/tableViewer.jsp?tableName=1_0_tt1&maincatalogue=1&lang=en
[16:04:50] <anonimasu> the first is p5 tolerance the second is normal
[16:05:44] <anonimasu> Kia is the runout
[16:07:01] <anonimasu> if you look at a 30mm id bearing 5µm
[16:07:20] <anonimasu> for p5 tolerance vs 20µm
[16:07:39] <anonimasu> err 15
[16:07:58] <anonimasu> that's 3 times more runout
[16:11:49] <anonimasu> and 15µm = 0.015mm
[16:12:33] <anonimasu> -_-
[16:12:58] <tomp> cradek: fenn: gcnccam nicely dies with just one rectangle from qcam in either r14 or 2000 dxf format, when BUILD is chosen.. i'll send the pm to the author.
[16:13:15] <tomp> dies nicely means he has a I died, wanna restart button
[16:15:15] <JanVanGilsen> Hi
[16:15:33] <JanVanGilsen> As reported yesterday, I filled in a bug-report on the parport in-mode stuff
[16:15:46] <cradek> thanks
[16:16:15] <cradek> did you ever get your inputs to work?
[16:17:57] <JanVanGilsen> nope, I bought an other PCI parport, now i have 15 inputs that do work :)
[16:18:03] <cradek> excellent
[16:18:36] <JanVanGilsen> i find it a stupid sollution dough
[16:18:38] <cradek> it's nice that computer hardware is so cheap - but it's too bad it's such a crap shoot
[16:20:12] <JanVanGilsen> while reading on the parport subject i discovered that on some ports you'll need to set bit 7 instead of bit 5, I added that to the report
[16:20:59] <cradek> did that fix your troublemaker parport card?
[16:22:07] <JanVanGilsen> don't know, i'm not running a source built version on that PC
[16:22:16] <cradek> ah
[16:22:56] <cradek> since a parport in "in" mode still has 4 outputs, I bet few or no people have run into this bug. but, I agree that it would be nice if it was possible to run as input-only.
[16:27:07] <JanVanGilsen> Yeah, it even wouldn't slow down the parport component since it only has to be set once
[16:27:42] <JanVanGilsen> it would make it even faster, not having to set the outputs to zero
[16:29:05] <tomp> sent email report to abegeman re: gcnccam. be advised the app has a report error button which uses bugbuddy, but bugbuddy didnt list his app, so cant be used.
[16:33:44] <K`zan_emc> Rats, no emc config for the HobbyCNC drive, back to the manual.
[16:44:04] <tomp> fenn: did you get gcnccam to work with dxf from some other app than qcad?
[16:45:24] <archivist> DXF is a moving target
[16:47:16] <tomp> bang!
[16:47:51] <archivist> I wrote a cleaner for one programs dxf out so we could send files to a laser cutter
[16:48:00] <jepler> fwiw linux parport_pc only sets bit 5 to enable input on the data lines. http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/lxr/source/include/linux/parport_pc.h#L146
[16:59:39] <tomp> wheres the md5sum on the hardy heron ( before i burn it ) wasnt offered at ubuntu.org?
[17:00:20] <alex_joni> tomp: official release?
[17:00:28] <tomp> yes
[17:00:57] <tomp> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download doesnt mention it
[17:01:45] <alex_joni> http://ftp.astral.ro/mirrors/ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/MD5SUMS
[17:03:05] <archivist> tomp or burn and there is a self test
[17:03:46] <tomp> thx, i got the md5sum of what i dloaded from k3b, need the reference to see dload was ok
[17:04:12] <alex_joni> tomp: save the link I gave you.. you have the MD5SUM there
[17:04:25] <tomp> yes, got it thx
[17:04:55] <tomp> cool, they agree, now if they agree after baking ;)
[19:26:15] <anonimasu> hmm
[21:12:03] <tomp> was looking at some tiny machine designs, this is tiny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVQpDFVyPGg from http://www.panmaneecnc.com. the xy is belt drive, the z is screw
[21:12:42] <anonimasu> hey tomp it's been a while
[21:12:44] <anonimasu> how are things going?
[21:13:27] <tomp> crazy. looked like i had a lot of work, now clients are backing out of some deals. hmmf!
[21:13:38] <tomp> but interesting :)
[21:13:45] <anonimasu> :/
[21:13:50] <anonimasu> that sucks
[21:14:29] <tomp> gotta keep your head up ;)
[21:14:54] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:16:41] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[21:16:50] <anonimasu> the more I dig around the more I want a datrondynamics machine :p
[21:17:42] <anonimasu> tomp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP4sDX87JE8
[21:18:40] <tomp> i saw that, it's amazing. love the sound
[21:18:59] <tomp> it's make nice graphite electrodes
[21:19:00] <anonimasu> I crave a machine that sounds like that..
[21:19:03] <anonimasu> fzzzzzzzt
[21:19:20] <anonimasu> damn prices.
[21:20:07] <anonimasu> on the other hand
[21:20:42] <anonimasu> there are lots of nice machines
[21:20:55] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLC25KbCTxs&feature=related
[21:21:42] <archivist> I saw the Citizen machines in the flesh yesterday....dribble.....
[21:22:18] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:22:28] <anonimasu> got a video of what you saw on the web?
[21:22:51] <anonimasu> *sigh*
[21:23:05] <anonimasu> we need a 12000rpm spindle
[21:23:07] <anonimasu> that you can DIY
[21:23:41] <archivist> or faster!
[21:23:54] <alex_joni> faster than DIY?
[21:24:00] <alex_joni> as in .. buying?
[21:24:03] <anonimasu> lol
[21:24:05] <anonimasu> faster spindle ;)
[21:24:10] <anonimasu> he wants 40krpm
[21:25:16] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPqJTPvvFMI&feature=related
[21:25:20] <anonimasu> on the other hand thats not bad eitehr
[21:26:05] <archivist_win> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOil5JKjP_4
[21:27:47] <archivist_win> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxW2rlsgxU0&feature=related
[21:28:09] <anonimasu> crap..
[21:28:15] <anonimasu> another night hooked on cnc movies.
[21:29:30] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAcBU2iqkKE&feature=related <- that's probably as good as it gets
[21:31:15] <anonimasu> the other fraisa videos too
[21:33:15] <anonimasu> *sigh*
[21:33:18] <anonimasu> <3
[21:35:56] <anonimasu> hm, that video of the mach 3 machine
[21:36:04] <anonimasu> 3000rpm and 6000mm/min feed
[21:36:05] <anonimasu> calc
[21:36:07] <anonimasu> whoops
[21:37:05] <anonimasu> with a 2 flute cutter
[21:37:27] <anonimasu> -_-
[21:37:30] <anonimasu> chipload -_-
[21:38:46] <tomp> i got a response from Arnd Begemann already, he's author of gcnccam.
[21:39:11] <tomp> he says you need a couple named layers in the dxf file, will try, the report back :)
[21:39:59] <anonimasu> heh
[21:40:10] <fenn> i have named layers, its just that nothing happens when i click on them
[21:40:14] <anonimasu> (3000 * 2) / 6000 = 1mm per tooth
[21:40:26] <anonimasu> actually it's 0.9906.
[21:40:44] <fenn> 3000*2/6000 = 0.9906?
[21:41:02] <anonimasu> no, but the online calc I found calculated it as such..
[21:41:08] <anonimasu> but that's in "
[21:41:21] <fenn> what's the advantage of doing high feed low depth of cut?
[21:41:32] <anonimasu> faster metal removal
[21:41:40] <fenn> seems like you'd wear out the tip of the cutter
[21:41:42] <anonimasu> err no..
[21:41:57] <anonimasu> I have no idea
[21:42:03] <anonimasu> that chipload seems huge..
[21:42:05] <fenn> good enough explanation :)
[21:42:18] <anonimasu> dormer recomends 0.06mm/rev of feed..
[21:42:20] <fenn> also it would tear as it comes off
[21:42:23] <anonimasu> for most endmills of theirs..
[21:43:11] <anonimasu> fenn: I think it has to do with what kind of spindle speed you've got
[21:43:14] <anonimasu> and machine rigidity
[21:43:59] <tomp> there IS a tutorial for gcnccam on sourceforge, a pdf.. so i rtfm 1st :-[
[21:44:20] <anonimasu> tomp: did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPqJTPvvFMI&feature=related ?
[21:44:39] <anonimasu> (I dont get how it works with that chipload)
[21:45:47] <tomp> thats impressive
[21:46:11] <SkinnYPupp> Bet that would raise hell with steel !
[21:46:18] <anonimasu> I dont get how it works in alu
[21:46:55] <anonimasu> it'd say Schlurp for me and it'd gum all over the place
[21:47:26] <tomp> shutting down all youtube till i test the fix for gcnccam !
[21:47:44] <archivist> hehe
[21:47:52] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is jealous of that chipload
[21:48:36] <anonimasu> what a bastard -_-
[21:48:53] <archivist> I want the small live tooling off the Citizen
[21:49:00] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:56:08] <anonimasu> *sigh*
[21:56:38] <anonimasu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT6vobT9mAw
[21:56:46] <anonimasu> is it just me or does that servo sound non healthy
[21:57:37] <SkinnYPupp> Grrr owly
[21:58:00] <anonimasu> eah
[21:58:03] <anonimasu> yeah sounds like a stepper
[21:58:17] <anonimasu> seems like it's the drives that makes them sound like that
[22:09:48] <tomp> yow! i got gcnccam to produce gcode. i need maybe 40 or 50 more whacks at it to document how. http://pastebin.ca/997857
[22:14:37] <tomp> there's work to be done, that was a 10" by 7" rectangle and a 1/4 inch dia tool . told app to cut inside, there oughtta have a bit more motion
[22:17:44] <SkinnYPupp> I'm getting some gouging error running the pastebin ,
[22:19:16] <SkinnYPupp> tomp: what was the raduis used for t1 ?
[22:19:30] <tomp> i cretaed square corners ( on purpose, to see what;d happen )
[22:19:51] <tomp> i think i posted the dxf earlier...
[22:19:57] <SkinnYPupp> AAhh
[22:20:18] <K`zan> Drive is finished, got the heat sink drilled, tapped and installed along with some standoffs!
[22:20:52] <K`zan> Once I figure out the configuration for EMC, I get to take my steppers for a spin :)!!!
[22:21:15] <SkinnYPupp> Woot !
[22:22:09] <K`zan> I took the basic stepper config and hacked it to correspond to the HobbyCNC inputs. Not sure about a lot of things, but assuming reasonably defaults, it might work!!!!
[22:22:15] <archivist> K`zan, get 4 running and play daisy
[22:22:16] <K`zan> Tooooooo Coooooool :)!!
[22:22:34] <K`zan> archivist: Huh? You speak Greek to me :-/.
[22:22:57] <K`zan> Only got 3 steppers, the extra axis is a spare.
[22:23:07] <archivist> daisy.ngc in with the demo files
[22:23:11] <SkinnYPupp> Daisy is in the examples, plays daisy on your steppers
[22:23:17] <SkinnYPupp> sounds ok with 3
[22:23:28] <K`zan> Hummm, now I wonder if having no stepper on the A axis will blow the driver.
[22:25:30] <K`zan> Doesn't day anything in the docs, could that be because they assume that if you ordered a 4 axis you are going to have steppers on all axis?!?
[22:28:43] <K`zan> SO much for any tests today, gonna have to ask about that. Not willing to toast a driver chip, they are hard enough to get in, I can imagine that out would be fun too.
[22:29:13] <SkinnYPupp> Check on cnczone , you may find an answer
[22:33:35] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:34:00] <SkinnYPupp> g'night
[22:42:57] <K`zan> My search critera doesn't seem to help, will try some more.
[22:43:45] <tomp> nite alex, thx again, & HardyHeron is running :)
[22:44:07] <tomp> SkinnYPupp: did you check the code using AXIS?
[22:45:48] <K`zan> I loathe google, snarl, growl, snap...
[22:47:53] <K`zan> No idea. Posted a message to the HCNC group and we'll chill until we hear something. Need to roust up some ethernet cable for the steppers for once I am done testing.
[22:50:57] <anonimasu> K`zan: drivers do no like running without load
[22:54:55] <tomp> re: gcnccam, after fixing ( circumventing ) the cutter comp problem, it's doing quite nicely
[22:58:54] <SkinnYPupp> tomp: Yes using axis, gouging at line 59 unless I comment out the tool
[22:59:33] <tomp> I see he has a tool table and AXIS/EMC has a tool table, making them agree didnt help, but removing G41 fixed mine
[23:00:06] <tomp> I figure it's my understanding for right now thats the problem ;)
[23:03:07] <K`zan> anonimasu: Thanks, looks like I'll have to come up with another stepper. Bummer, gonna be a week before I can play :-/.
[23:03:14] <tomp> http://imagebin.org/17059
[23:04:13] <anonimasu> :/
[23:04:23] <anonimasu> K`zan: no way to disconnect one driver?
[23:04:32] <SkinnYPupp> looks good! I'll have to install it tonight .
[23:06:50] <anonimasu> K`zan: what does the jumpers do?
[23:07:27] <SkinnYPupp> Whats the stepper winding resistance, wonder if you could get away with using a speaker as a dummy load
[23:09:30] <LawrenceG> now that would make a racket! daisy at 120dB
[23:10:02] <SkinnYPupp> lol , gotta run
[23:11:24] <K`zan> Wow, got several responses to the query already - OK to run with no stepper connected, just do NOT connect / disconnect with power on.
[23:12:31] <K`zan> Cool, off to do a temporary wire up of the steppers, no real point to hacking in the ethernet cable to the stepper before I know how long they need to be!
[23:13:51] <anonimasu> :)
[23:19:37] <tomp> re: gcnccam to delete a layer ( operation) delete it's name in the dialog :)
[23:50:19] <anonimasu> hmm
[23:53:04] <K`zan_emc> brb