#emc | Logs for 2008-04-24

[00:11:57] <tomp2> can a vfat fs have symlinks? ( i'm following a seemingly impossible guide to booting 6.06 from a usb stick )
[00:14:49] <tomp2> tho written for 7.04, I bet there's 3 symlinks on that cd like there are on emclive. http://www.pendrivelinux.com/2007/09/21/usb-ubuntu-704-persistent-install-for-linux-users/
[00:34:07] <tomp2> hmm "Replacing /dev/sdX1 with the partition name of your USB stick found in the previous section You will see some "operation not permitted" errors when the script tries to copy the symlinks for /dists/stable and /dists/unstable. This is because fat16 file systems do not handle symlinks, but it will not cause any problems."
[00:34:35] <tomp2> coulda told me that 2 days ago :-|
[00:47:59] <JymmmEMC> tomp what are you attemping to accomplish as the end resuslt?
[00:48:34] <JymmmEMC> K`zan: you go girl!
[01:07:42] <K`zan> JymmmEMC: :-) Going now, just over half finished soldering up the drive.
[01:07:55] <JymmmEMC> K`zan: soldering?!
[01:08:02] <K`zan> HobbyCNC
[01:08:06] <JymmmEMC> you making your own driver board?
[01:08:14] <K`zan> --^^^
[01:08:16] <JymmmEMC> ah
[01:08:24] <K`zan> 4 axis pro...
[01:08:48] <K`zan> Something to keep me doing something while I scrounge for the Geckos
[01:09:20] <JymmmEMC> gotcha
[01:12:22] <tomp2> JymmmEMC: trying to put emc2 onto a eeepc (just sim, no hdwr) so i can be really portable. eeepc has no hd, no cdrom, just eth/ath/usb2
[01:12:33] <K`zan> Got tired of sitting on my arse wishing :)
[01:13:17] <tomp2> bbl
[01:38:58] <JymmmEMC> tomp: usb cdrom drive?
[02:32:36] <tomp> JymmmEMC: a usb thumb drive , solid state, no spinning platter
[02:49:28] <K`zan> Yeah, test is good. Now to solder up the inverters and driver chips!
[02:50:41] <K`zan> Anyone here running HobbyCNC? If so, is it advisable to socket the hex inverters (14 PDIP)? Doesn't say you can't and it seems like a good idea to me.
[03:12:09] <JymmmEMC> tomp: No, I meant use a usb cdrom instead of a thumbstick
[03:12:22] <tomp> no got :)
[03:12:35] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Well, hit WealMart rental dept
[03:12:41] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Well, hit WalMart rental dept
[03:12:59] <tomp> actually i have a usb backpack, but they dont seem supported in Ubu
[03:13:07] <tomp> rental dept at Walmart?
[03:13:17] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Sure
[03:14:26] <JymmmEMC> tomp: It's right at the entrance, though sometimes they call it the "You got 90 days" Returns dept.
[03:14:41] <tomp> :) like sears, ok
[03:15:06] <JymmmEMC> Yes, likes Sears Rental, Frys Rental, WalMart Rental.
[03:16:49] <skunkworks> !finaly - subaru is running right again
[03:17:05] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: you torched it?
[03:18:53] <skunkworks> We had the local tech school overhaul the engine. It leaked a ton of oil and had piston slap.
[03:19:20] <JymmmEMC> how much?
[03:19:38] <skunkworks> I 'thought' they would take extra care as it was a learning/teaching tool
[03:19:49] <skunkworks> I only had to pay for parts and machining
[03:19:55] <JymmmEMC> cool
[03:20:00] <skunkworks> but there was all kinds of issues with it.
[03:20:32] <skunkworks> wrong bolts in the wrong place - leaking oil pan seal.. and once I got that all figured out - the thing ran like crap and had no power.
[03:20:52] <skunkworks> Ended up that the timing belt was off.
[03:20:54] <cradek> ouch
[03:20:57] <JymmmEMC> how long did they hve it for?
[03:21:00] <JymmmEMC> have
[03:21:09] <skunkworks> it was around a semester
[03:21:12] <cradek> man, lucky they didn't destroy it with the timing belt wrong
[03:21:36] <cradek> was it just one tooth off?
[03:21:55] <skunkworks> the cam sprockets where all off 1 tooth. (or looking at it from the other direction - the crank sprocket was off one tooth. ;)
[03:23:12] <cradek> oops
[03:23:31] <skunkworks> it is an interference engine - but 1 tooth is not enough for it to hit the pistons I guess. ;)
[03:23:49] <cradek> that's scary. only the most important part of reassembly
[03:24:28] <skunkworks> yes
[03:25:17] <cradek> I hope you tell the teacher
[03:26:40] <skunkworks> I am. he already oppologised about the bolts and such.
[03:28:13] <skunkworks> I spent way too much time on this thing
[03:30:04] <cradek> how irritating
[03:31:50] <skunkworks> but it should be good for another 150k
[03:31:54] <skunkworks> or more
[03:33:33] <skunkworks> now I need a clockspring and it should be complete
[03:34:02] <cradek> junkyard here you come?
[03:34:11] <skunkworks> none close to me
[03:34:18] <skunkworks> ebay maybe
[03:34:28] <skunkworks> have not looked very hard yet
[03:58:43] <K`zan> Only about 70 pins left to solder. I hope I *never* have to replace those driver chips...
[04:22:30] <JymmmEMC> you should use sockets
[05:30:29] <K`zan> JymmmEMC: Did, well machined socket strips. Would have made a lot more sense on the driver chips, but wasn't sure they were good enough for that. I hope to God I never have to change one :).
[05:39:59] <fenn> you made your own sockets?
[05:47:52] <tomp> well, i got ubu 7.04 up on the eepc using thumb drive, now to apply that to dapper 6.06 :) ( not tonight :)
[05:50:13] <tomp> i used a shell script from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick, some guys at redhat did it, and say it'll work for all ubu iso images ( i hope ihopeihopeihope )
[06:09:45] <K`zan> Run emc from a eee? LOL
[06:10:03] <K`zan> Well, drive is finished and calibrated.
[06:10:30] <K`zan> Next I figure out the stepper connections. Do that tomorrow. Fun building it.
[06:26:16] <fenn> looks like we've almost caught up to where they were in 1968 in terms of user interface software: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8734787622017763097
[07:32:42] <gfixler> anyone know why EMC always skips my last line of g-code?
[07:33:00] <gfixler> is it a known issue, or not, or something unique to me?
[07:53:48] <K`zan> Night all!
[08:57:22] <mboehm> i have problems with overruns in my rt kernel, anyone can help?
[09:11:49] <gfixler> I don't have an answer, but am curious through which method you got an rt kernel
[09:11:59] <gfixler> did you patch it in yourself to dapper?
[09:12:33] <gfixler> (total newb here, but I didn't think dapper had an rt kernel)
[11:01:15] <JanVanGilsen> Hi, can somebody help me with interfacing a parrallelport? I'm trying to read a 0 to 24V digital signals with the datalines. I use a 5V1 zener as voltage regulator. I teems that the 24V optical limit switch has a internal series resitance, when I put a load on it the voltage drops.
[11:03:17] <fenn> what seems to be the problem?
[11:03:20] <JanVanGilsen> I get 5V, but when I wire it to the parallel port, the current in the zener seems to drop below te reverse breakdown voltage
[11:03:50] <fenn> sounds like you need to add more resistance to reduce current flow
[11:06:14] <fenn> another scheme might be to set up a voltage divider (although this would not protect you from voltage spikes)
[11:06:15] <JanVanGilsen> thats strange, because when I remove te resitor the voltage on the parrallelport pin goes to 0.1V instead of 0V :)
[11:06:58] <fenn> this resistor is in series with the zener diode, correct?
[11:07:15] <JanVanGilsen> correct
[11:08:16] <fenn> can you measure the amount of current flowing through the zener?
[11:08:44] <JanVanGilsen> not atm
[11:09:15] <fenn> are you driving the parport pin to zero?
[11:09:28] <fenn> (is it set for output)
[11:10:04] <fenn> you can check this by toggling the pin in HAL
[11:10:35] <JanVanGilsen> Can you toggle a input pin?
[11:12:11] <fenn> * fenn grumbles about hal_parport not having a man page
[11:12:44] <JanVanGilsen> i use pin 4 , and configured the parallelport as "0x378 in"ยต
[11:14:07] <fenn> so, halcmd show parport*4 should say: parport.0.pin-04-in
[11:17:14] <fenn> i think the default sets up pins 1-9 as output, 10-17 input
[11:18:00] <fenn> " Pins 10, 11, 12, 13, and 15 are always input pins"
[11:19:00] <fenn> so try it on pin 10 and see if it's the same
[11:20:21] <JanVanGilsen> i had it working on pin 10, but i need more input pins
[11:21:30] <fenn> so the problem is likely your config string
[11:21:32] <JanVanGilsen> i assume the behaviour of the threestate paralllel port pins (2 to 8) is different...
[11:23:17] <fenn> it should say (exactly): loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378 in"
[11:23:21] <fenn> with no extra spaces
[11:24:52] <fenn> hmmm i wonder if that feature actually works :)
[11:25:12] <fenn> please verify that you get parport.0.pin-04-in
[11:25:43] <JanVanGilsen> i get parort
[11:26:01] <JanVanGilsen> parport.1.pin-04-in
[11:26:28] <JanVanGilsen> i have 2 parrallelports, (manny in/outputs)
[11:28:36] <fenn> oh boy
[11:28:46] <fenn> which one is 0x378?
[11:31:19] <fenn> one would think there might be a param parport.0.base-addr
[11:31:53] <fenn> but i'm not seeing it
[11:32:41] <JanVanGilsen> oh, sorry i use 0x278 as input, 378 as output... i had to get to the other room to check ...
[11:33:41] <JanVanGilsen> 0x278 is parport.1 it's the onboard parrallel port
[11:34:50] <JanVanGilsen> i tried to change the mode in the BIOS but that didn't help
[11:37:19] <fenn> ok, so, what is the config string you use?
[11:37:57] <fenn> please humor me :)
[11:48:32] <JanVanGilsen> loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378 out 0x278 in"
[11:53:39] <JanVanGilsen> I think that the input impedance of the parport is to low, so it takes to much current from the zener so doesn't go in reverse breakdown
[11:54:09] <fenn> i think your parport is in output mode, and that's why the impedance is too low
[11:54:32] <JanVanGilsen> indeed
[11:54:43] <JanVanGilsen> how do i get it in input mode ?
[11:56:26] <fenn> if changing the bios setting didnt work, i dont have any ideas
[11:58:20] <JanVanGilsen> i assume emc sets bit 5 of the control register to configure it as input
[12:03:57] <JanVanGilsen> i measure 47 ohms as impedance, but thats with the pc on, so i don't know if its relevant :)
[12:55:42] <Guest439> subaru made it to work.. :)
[12:55:52] <Guest439> Guest439 is now known as skunkworks_
[14:08:22] <tomp> just got emc2.2.2-1 running on eeepc using thumb drive. it's running sim-mini now and the backplot is showing 3D_Chips.ngc :)
[14:09:52] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Shut down emc and run this in a terminal....
[14:10:06] <JymmmEMC> sudo mkdir /dev/rtf; sudo mknod /dev/rtf/3 c 150 3;
[14:10:06] <JymmmEMC> sudo mknod /dev/rtf3 c 150 3;
[14:10:06] <JymmmEMC> cd /usr/realtime*/testsuite/kern/latency; ./run
[14:10:30] <JymmmEMC> as stated here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#RTAI_Latency_test
[14:11:44] <JymmmEMC> tomp: you want ZERO overruns, and 'ovl max' to be low, less than 20000 is good, less is better. Let it run for at least 20 minutes.
[14:12:19] <tomp> doing it, but wasnt planning on rt use, just a portable env to look at stuff
[14:12:46] <JymmmEMC> ah
[14:14:05] <tomp> 0 overruns lat max 7228 ovl max 8072... havent begun glx gears etc...
[14:15:44] <tomp> running openoffice 0 overruns but max up to 14911
[14:16:15] <tomp> apps open as fast as on my desktop
[14:16:42] <tomp> i'm mo happy, i can look at emc in the woods, and on the 'L' :)
[14:17:00] <tomp> gotta run, thx
[14:18:10] <tomp> wait, glxgears NEVBER ran this fast or smooth, no overruns and no chg in lmax since i ran openoffice, still 14911
[14:18:27] <JymmmEMC> 20 minutes MINIMUM
[14:18:37] <tomp> NEVER (apologies to buckwheat )
[14:19:27] <tomp> i can check it tonight :) still it only has usb, & eth, no other ifaces
[14:21:55] <JymmmEMC> Bah, doens't the wiki know html?
[14:22:18] <rayh> It knows a bit of html but not a lot.
[14:22:27] <JymmmEMC> rayh: <hr>
[14:22:34] <JymmmEMC> <table> ?
[14:23:02] <JymmmEMC> Or does it just not display html until the doc is saved?
[14:23:09] <rayh> <br> an a couple others. There is a link in the basic page to the language used.
[14:23:19] <tomp> the rules for the wiki arent really html, look for the ruleset on the 'howto' page... its a very small set that works
[14:23:28] <JymmmEMC> url?
[14:23:41] <rayh> You can't transfer an ordinary html page into it.
[14:23:45] <rayh> looking
[14:24:14] <tomp> http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TextFormattingRules
[14:24:34] <rayh> also http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[14:25:11] <rayh> Hi tomp Going to fest this year?
[14:25:12] <tomp> i think the actual rules set is a subset of that ( like lotsa stuf didnt work reducing the number of tags that did )
[14:25:18] <tomp> hope so ray
[14:25:25] <rayh> Great.
[14:25:29] <tomp> it been busy ( thank God )
[14:25:55] <rayh> Busy is good if it pays and/or is fun.
[14:26:23] <tomp> yeah just finished my oatmeal ( I'm rich ;)
[14:27:01] <rayh> Can't be all bad then. Wait till the price of oatmeal goes out of sight.
[14:28:50] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[14:33:18] <JymmmEMC> rayh: So, there's no way to add an html table to the wiki?
[14:33:44] <rayh> Not directly.
[14:34:04] <rayh> I've used the pipe stuff like it shows in the sample pages.
[14:34:25] <rayh> but that works for simple tables only.
[14:34:30] <JymmmEMC> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Motherboards
[14:34:38] <rayh> it's a pita
[14:34:58] <JymmmEMC> I'm not sure what "pipe stuff" is.
[14:35:31] <JymmmEMC> I know what pipe dope is though =)
[14:35:33] <rayh> let me find you an example.
[14:35:46] <JymmmEMC> pipe, as in redirection?
[14:36:22] <JymmmEMC> ps aux | grep exim
[14:38:53] <rayh> Ah the classicladder page has a table in it. Open that with editing and you'll see what I mean.
[14:39:20] <rayh> Nah the pipe simbol is used as an edge of the table cell.
[14:39:49] <JymmmEMC> url?
[14:42:55] <JymmmEMC> found it, the damn thing is case-sensative.... wth
[14:43:21] <JymmmEMC> classicladder != ClassicLadder
[14:43:37] <rayh> right sorry for the mixup.
[14:43:53] <rayh> Down a ways you see || something || something else || those pipe symbols create cells.
[14:44:34] <JymmmEMC> Sorry Ray, I get real frustrated when things are made more complicated than they should be and normalization is/was tossed out the window.
[14:45:00] <rayh> Well wiki is a strange bird.
[14:45:23] <JymmmEMC> That is beyond my loath of wiki's in general - bunch of damn electronic posti-it notes.
[14:45:31] <rayh> You can't use html as it's base language.
[14:45:41] <JymmmEMC> so I see.
[14:46:40] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[14:46:42] <rayh> I think there is some sort of tag that lets you insert some blocks of html but it didn't work when I tried.
[14:47:20] <cradek> http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TextFormattingRules
[14:47:36] <JymmmEMC> cradek: already looked
[14:47:38] <cradek> table formatting specifically: http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TableFormatting
[14:48:08] <JymmmEMC> No, it could just use plain old fashion html</sarcasim>
[14:48:38] <cradek> meh
[14:48:45] <anonimasu> uh..
[14:48:50] <cradek> all markup is a pain
[14:48:54] <anonimasu> html sucks for that
[14:49:11] <anonimasu> well, xml sucks too, but atleast you can name your tags something descriptive
[14:49:25] <cradek> we should use LaTeX tables: @{|||||} \\ & \\ & \\
[14:49:48] <JymmmEMC> cradek: True, but if certain html was permitted, one could use most editors then just copy and paste content to the wiki, and not have to learn a new markup making it any worse.
[14:51:05] <rayh> That markup page says "if you allow raw html ($RawHtml =1; NB security risk) you can then put <html><!-- coment in here --></html> -- Rob Stone "
[14:51:17] <rayh> But I don't think that our wiki allows raw html.
[14:52:14] <JymmmEMC> Great.... now it thinks the / is a sub-section... <sigh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Motherboards
[14:52:54] <JymmmEMC> Screw it, I give.... how do I delete the page?
[14:53:28] <klickrr> are limit switches normally closed or open? I'm going to be connecting them the pico systems Universal Stepper Controller, can't seem to find out where it says open or closed, or perhaps it's configurable? i dunno
[14:53:28] <rayh> My wiki tendency is to find an existing page about like the formatting I want and paste the stuff I like.
[14:53:55] <rayh> Real servo system limits are a closed loop.
[14:54:21] <JymmmEMC> klickrr: you want closed so if a wire/switch ever breaks you'll be aware that somethign is wrong.
[14:54:49] <klickrr> yes i know i want it to be closed, but is it, that's what i'm trying to determine
[14:55:21] <JymmmEMC> have you just tried it?
[14:55:21] <klickrr> i'll just email john at pico systems
[14:55:27] <klickrr> well i don't have it hooked up yet, so no
[14:55:42] <JymmmEMC> it's just a switch and two wires,
[14:55:52] <JymmmEMC> or just two wires if your testing
[14:56:02] <klickrr> and plus I want to install all the limit switches, so i'd like to use the correct ones before installing them all
[14:56:23] <klickrr> it's not done, nothing is setup to test
[14:56:49] <klickrr> nm, i'll just send an email, thanks
[14:57:02] <JymmmEMC> Then what is your concern at this point? You have to test before making everything perm anyway.
[14:57:44] <klickrr> installed a limit switch that is NC instead of NO
[14:57:46] <JymmmEMC> s/have/should/
[14:57:50] <klickrr> installing
[14:58:28] <JymmmEMC> what kind of limit switches are you using? Most use the cherry switches that have both NO and NC contacts
[14:58:34] <klickrr> i'm waiting for my electronics enclosure to be shipped to me, so i was hoping to install limit switches today, but I odn't know which ones to use, I have both NO and NC switches, i want to physically install them on the machine, so i want to know which ones to use
[14:58:46] <klickrr> ok well these suck aparently :)
[14:58:56] <klickrr> they only have 2 connectors
[14:59:13] <JymmmEMC> klickrr: Well, ist doens't matter anyway, making them NC should be what you're after.
[14:59:15] <klickrr> well, i do have ones with 3 connectors
[14:59:41] <cradek> use NC switches for limits - hitting a limit should open the circuit
[15:00:15] <klickrr> I found a doc on pico systems site that says Normally Closed, so it looks like that's it
[15:00:21] <cradek> how you hook these signals into emc is totally configurable. at the hardware level you should do what's best and then configure emc accordingly
[15:00:22] <JymmmEMC> I'm sure that Jon has incorporated something for making switches on the USC NC or NO
[15:01:12] <klickrr> cradek: i'm using the pico system's USC, it connects to that, i'm not sure how it interfaces to emc, i don't know if it's passthru or if it's handled on the board
[15:02:17] <klickrr> where do you guys normally get limit switches, and what types of switches would you use/suggest? Not sure I really want to trust these radio shack switches
[15:02:19] <cradek> I think it handles estop internally, but not limits. limits are just digital inputs that you can configure however you like
[15:02:36] <JymmmEMC> klickrr: Do they say "cherry" on them?
[15:02:38] <cradek> (but maybe you should ask jon to be sure)
[15:03:15] <klickrr> well the other ones are downstairs, this one says "zippy", but i'm not sure i'm going to use this
[15:03:27] <klickrr> is cherry good or bad?
[15:03:35] <JymmmEMC> good
[15:03:43] <klickrr> what about zippy
[15:04:02] <JymmmEMC> never heard of them, try digikey
[15:04:02] <klickrr> zippy shinjiun
[15:04:38] <JymmmEMC> cradek: is this setup as NO or NC ? http://www.pico-systems.com/codes/univstep/univstep_io.hal
[15:05:03] <klickrr> you guys use the push button switches, or the ones with the levers on it?
[15:05:28] <JymmmEMC> levers allow some adjustments
[15:06:32] <klickrr> yea, the NC pushbuttons have about a quarter inch after then are pressed, so if the machine stops in that time it's ok.. otherwise it hits the hard stopps.... granted even at top speed an ESTOP should be able to take it down to nothing in less then a quarter inch...
[15:07:15] <klickrr> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062540&cp=&pg=2&sr=1&origkw=switches&kw=switches&parentPage=search
[15:07:17] <klickrr> I have those
[15:08:15] <klickrr> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049719&cp=&pg=4&sr=1&origkw=switches&kw=switches&parentPage=search
[15:08:25] <klickrr> that's the other one I have, thought about using one of those as well...
[15:10:27] <cradek> what size/class of machine?
[15:10:45] <klickrr> building it out of 8020
[15:10:56] <klickrr> it's kinda big
[15:11:01] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/01198731403
[15:11:13] <cradek> for one of my little machines I used this setup. I'm happy with it
[15:11:37] <cradek> overtravel won't ruin the switch, and I get surprisingly repeatable homing with the switches only
[15:11:53] <klickrr> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54974
[15:12:04] <klickrr> The third post shows the main size of the machine
[15:12:29] <cradek> neat
[15:12:34] <klickrr> yea, i was thinking something like that
[15:13:36] <klickrr> i realize it gives it more room to stop, which is nice, the buttons are pretty easy to hookup hehe, but i probably shouldn't be lazy when it comes to this part
[15:13:43] <cradek> I have no proof, but my gut tells me that the lever and roller can only add slop to the home position
[15:13:45] <klickrr> my old machine doesn't even have limit switches, granted it was small though
[15:14:12] <cradek> with steppers, all you have is that switch for repeatable home. with servos of course the switch doesn't matter so much
[15:14:22] <klickrr> well i also thought of that, i thought the push button would home a little better, but i've never really "home'd" my machine before, so I don't usually operate like that, not sure it would bother me
[15:14:55] <klickrr> why would home differ between steppers and servos? it's just a switch on the table right?
[15:15:03] <cradek> homing is nice. barring a machine failure (lost position) you will never touch the limit switches
[15:15:26] <cradek> servos have encoders with a special pulse ("index") exactly once per revolution
[15:15:39] <cradek> you use this to refine the home position so you get repeatable position to within one encoder count
[15:15:40] <klickrr> mine don't
[15:16:13] <klickrr> right, these don't have absolute encoders, so there's no home index
[15:16:14] <cradek> real servo systems do (no insult meant)
[15:16:27] <cradek> absolute encoders are a different thing
[15:16:31] <klickrr> right i understand
[15:16:48] <klickrr> well, yea i see what you mean
[15:17:05] <klickrr> an optical encoder with just one pulse to setup an index.. so it's not an absoulte encoder
[15:17:58] <klickrr> I actually built a solution using an absolute encoder and a standard optical encoder to make sure we weren't loosing steps, what your saying would be better to use for that, but I didn't even know they had those... probably chepaer to, although the absolute encoders are prettty cheap
[15:18:56] <cradek> I think you are misusing the term "absolute encoder" which means an encoder that can report its position upon powerup. what we all use are incremental encoders - these have quadrature signals as they turn, and often an index pulse once per rev
[15:19:58] <klickrr> actually I have magnetic absoulte encoders sitting right here, the give off a position kinda like a potentiometer would, although they don't wear out and are more accurate, here is a link:http://www.usdigital.com/products/ma3/
[15:20:34] <cradek> ah, wild
[15:20:53] <klickrr> i realize the optical encoders are incremental, i've coding quadrature encoder decoders for microcontrollers before... i know how they work
[15:20:57] <cradek> sorry for assuming you were mistaken
[15:21:25] <cradek> brb, coffee time
[15:21:25] <klickrr> although i'd like to know where you get that index pulse encoder, does us digital make one i wonder
[15:21:47] <cradek> yes, lots
[15:22:01] <cradek> I bet virtually all their models can be ordered with index
[15:22:35] <klickrr> ahh, didnt' know that
[15:22:53] <klickrr> that might save me some money, i'll have to look into that, thanks :)
[15:28:29] <renesis> cradek: link to acad to gcode thing?
[15:28:45] <renesis> im not sure gcam does negative workspace stuff how i want =\
[15:29:12] <renesis> else i gotta be shiting workspace to deal with flipped boards and then reset so i dont crash like a tardo
[15:30:05] <renesis> twingy is starting to add mousing stuff to it, and i guess it works with emc/ubuntu version stuff now
[15:34:20] <cradek> renesis: timeguy.com
[15:34:47] <renesis> ty
[15:35:25] <renesis> cradek: so efnet/#electronics people been using this place for pcb, ourpcb.com
[15:35:43] <renesis> china fab house, Susan Yang is the boss and John Wang is the tech (rite...)
[15:36:09] <cradek> I'm glad I can make my own boards now
[15:36:13] <renesis> anyway, i made these panels, and they kept sending it back 'factory says to small, less designs, more panels'
[15:36:30] <renesis> twingy is trying to figure out something to do thru hole vias
[15:36:33] <cradek> I don't like choosing between US and affordable
[15:36:35] <renesis> home brew
[15:36:36] <renesis> anyway
[15:37:06] <renesis> so i figured my 8mil pour fills and 600x400mm panels were lagging up their ancient photoplotter
[15:37:08] <renesis> or something
[15:37:12] <cradek> yeah it would be nice to do thru-hole at home. it's pretty hard I think.
[15:37:15] <renesis> back and forth, new smaller panels, less designs
[15:37:24] <renesis> finally 2 days in, too late to make my deadline
[15:37:37] <cradek> I just suck it up and use singlesided designs with jumpers, or solder my vias
[15:37:39] <renesis> 'routing/vscore to hard, panel like this'
[15:37:55] <renesis> because they normally just do panels for people like matrix of single boards
[15:38:08] <renesis> my shit was like 8 boards per panel, then 4 then 3
[15:38:11] <renesis> so random routes
[15:38:20] <renesis> im like ...
[15:38:32] <renesis> cradek: i use .010 wire
[15:38:48] <renesis> so yeah, i tell them i have my own cnc i dont really need them to cut it out
[15:38:55] <renesis> this is three days after first quote submission
[15:39:09] <renesis> after i told them that, like a quote an hour
[15:39:31] <renesis> i submit final quote, this time the boss handles it instead of the tech
[15:39:49] <renesis> sends back after like 12 hours: factory says vscore/route too hard, layout like this:
[15:40:08] <renesis> [pdf of squares and rectangles], im like ...
[15:40:35] <renesis> but yeah, i was getting tooling prices of like $50-$180
[15:40:47] <renesis> for each panel design
[15:40:59] <renesis> and unit prces of like under $10 for all of them
[15:41:02] <renesis> down to maybe $3
[15:41:18] <renesis> and they have black soldermask
[15:41:54] <renesis> cradek: i think twingy current idea is EDM tubes and some sort of press
[15:42:25] <renesis> well, thats his best idea i think, hes had like 2 or 3 decent ones besides that
[15:42:57] <renesis> i think fab houses use some sort of conductive epoxy junk and masks
[15:43:05] <renesis> but i dunno if thats just for filled vias
[15:43:23] <renesis> you could put a layer of stencil plastic over the boards while you do via holes
[15:43:54] <renesis> and then squeqee stuff over maybe, like the do the solder paste
[15:45:06] <cradek> if he finds a good method that would make a lot of people happy.
[16:09:14] <renesis> cradek: yeh
[16:09:30] <renesis> amazingly i only have to rework a few vias on the boards i was gonna do in china
[16:09:54] <anonimasu> renesis: sounds like they suck :/
[16:10:21] <renesis> theyre quite good actually
[16:10:21] <anonimasu> renesis: "route too hard?"
[16:10:32] <renesis> the guy who i design boards for gets his shit made in a few days
[16:10:40] <renesis> anonimasu: wtf do i care i can route it myself
[16:11:00] <renesis> i was just kinda miffed they didnt say that was why 3 days sooner
[16:11:25] <renesis> like, $5 per unit prices on 1/3 panel boards
[16:11:56] <renesis> after like $70 or $80 tooling
[16:11:59] <renesis> technology specified to .004 space/trace
[16:12:09] <renesis> and theyre fine down to .012 drills no extra cost
[16:12:21] <renesis> which is neat because .012 is what i use for vias at home
[16:13:12] <renesis> theyre better than anything american for the money
[16:13:12] <renesis> american prototype fab house experience:
[16:13:19] <renesis> popcorn, pizza and soda coupons, but someone elses pcb (someone else had my pcb)
[16:13:47] <renesis> and they trying to act like a 'prototype house' wtf
[16:13:47] <anonimasu> -_-
[16:13:49] <renesis> i was supposed to send other guys board back
[16:13:54] <anonimasu> I'd send someone to kill them if they sent my prototype stuff to someone else.
[16:13:54] <renesis> they overnighted us new boards
[16:14:06] <renesis> i still havent dropped that board off at ups...
[16:14:15] <renesis> anonimasu: yeah, rly
[16:14:31] <anonimasu> prototype boards should be confidential imo..
[16:14:31] <renesis> uh huh
[16:14:37] <renesis> all you gotta to is make the design and send it back
[16:14:37] <anonimasu> it's kind of shitty if you have a propietary design for something and your competitor gets it.
[16:14:49] <renesis> also i specifical;ly asked for them to adress a package a certain way
[16:15:00] <renesis> because they insisted on sending it to my school to get the student deal
[16:15:32] <renesis> which btw most schools wouldt be cool with
[16:15:32] <renesis> so my msg got thru
[16:15:32] <renesis> because they did one package right
[16:15:32] <renesis> but they did the other package wrong
[16:15:42] <renesis> adressed it to me, care of the lab tech, and he got bitched at
[16:15:45] <renesis> so i got bitched at
[16:16:15] <renesis> 4pcb.com/freedfm.com
[16:16:31] <renesis> well
[16:16:35] <renesis> unless youre hungry
[16:16:45] <renesis> and want pizza and popcorn and soda
[16:17:08] <renesis> that was actually kinda nice to have while i was on the phone with them like REALLY WTF IS THAT
[16:20:42] <anonimasu> bbl
[16:20:45] <anonimasu> going home
[16:22:21] <alex_joni> whee.. Which release do you want?
[16:22:22] <alex_joni> Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Desktop Edition - Supported to 2011
[16:24:03] <skunkworks_> did you make another live cd?
[16:28:23] <cradek> yay!
[16:28:47] <cradek> fortunately 2011 is so far in the future it will never come, so this one is supported forever!
[16:30:28] <skunkworks_> isn't that when the world is supposed to end?
[16:30:32] <skunkworks_> ;)
[16:30:50] <cradek> no, that's 2037
[16:31:00] <cradek> fortunately, that date will never come either
[16:34:11] <JymmmEMC> cradek: ?
[16:34:56] <cradek> JymmmEMC: I don't believe in the future beyond 2 years, or dates earlier than I can remember
[16:35:59] <JymmmEMC> cradek: LOL, okey okey, fair enough =)
[17:04:25] <renesis> 2012
[17:04:30] <renesis> mayan end of the world
[17:04:49] <renesis> which is basically end of a major era
[17:04:59] <renesis> i guess last time it happened, the spaniards showed up
[17:19:24] <skunkworks_> heh
[17:24:11] <Juanjo> Juanjo is now known as juanjo
[17:40:56] <tomp2> eeepc kicked into some mode, got tons of overruns now, didnt sleep, idle, but ng for rt (besides no hdwr i/o )
[18:13:00] <juergen-44> hallo
[18:13:53] <skunkworks_> juergen-44: hello
[18:14:11] <juergen-44> hello
[18:16:01] <juergen-44> I need to know something about servo motors and the motenc-card with emc2
[18:16:23] <cradek> ok, what specifically?
[18:17:26] <juergen-44> what servomotors do I can use? can I use digitalservos?
[18:17:57] <skunkworks_> Is motenc a +/-10 card?
[18:18:00] <cradek> you should choose servos to go with amps that take an analog velocity command in. usually this is +-10V analog
[18:18:04] <juergen-44> yes
[18:18:14] <cradek> (I don't know what a digitalservo is)
[18:18:21] <juergen-44> hm
[18:18:43] <juergen-44> not a analogmotor
[18:18:47] <juergen-44> an
[18:18:59] <juergen-44> sorry my bad english
[18:19:01] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: I finally made it home, downloading the 8.04 LiveCD now
[18:19:21] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: official release of hardy?
[18:19:25] <alex_joni> yeah
[18:19:25] <skunkworks_> from ubuntu?
[18:19:28] <skunkworks_> cool :)
[18:19:33] <alex_joni> well, from the local mirror
[18:19:46] <alex_joni> getting about 1MB/sec download
[18:21:55] <juergen-44> I can't find a type of servomotor, I need something about 20Nm
[18:34:01] <BigJohnT> alex_joni you d/l the desktop or server version?
[18:34:28] <alex_joni> desktop
[18:34:35] <BigJohnT> cool
[18:35:40] <renesis> 10:43 < tomp2> eeepc kicked into some mode, got tons of overruns now, didnt sleep, idle, but ng for rt (besides no hdwr i/o )
[18:35:43] <renesis> sucks
[18:36:03] <renesis> i just use mine for notes
[18:36:11] <renesis> and wifi
[18:37:59] <tomp2> digitsl servo takes binary velocity/position/torque cmds and rtns binary data
[18:40:04] <tomp2> digital
[18:41:43] <tomp2> had to chg perms on qcad's font dir so i could ... have fonts
[18:42:21] <alex_joni> now why would you want fonts?
[18:43:04] <juergen-44> got to go, thank's for answers
[18:58:51] <tomp2> oh! 8.04 is LTS. cool!
[19:02:07] <JanVanGilsen> Hi, i'm trying to understand how the hal_parport.c driver works with bi-directional parallel ports. (configured as input)
[19:04:05] <JanVanGilsen> As i understand from reading on the web, to set the tri-state data-pins to input you have to set bit 5 of the control register.
[19:04:25] <cradek> are you having trouble with it?
[19:04:48] <JanVanGilsen> where is this done in the hal_parport.c driver?
[19:05:35] <JanVanGilsen> my parallel port didn't seem to go in input mode, the impedance stayed low.
[19:06:12] <cradek> are you sure you invoked hal_parport correctly? did you get the -in- hal pins?
[19:07:01] <JanVanGilsen> yes i did get them
[19:09:10] <cradek> /* prepare to build control port byte, with direction bit set */
[19:09:10] <cradek> outdata = 0x20;
[19:12:18] <JanVanGilsen> thanks :)
[19:13:14] <cradek> hal_parport DOES work in input mode -- you almost certainly have a hardware problem
[19:13:24] <cradek> did you try different parport modes in your bios?
[19:13:50] <JanVanGilsen> i did try that ...
[19:15:32] <cradek> how did you determine that it's not going into input mode?
[19:16:11] <JanVanGilsen> i find it strange that it is set in the write_port function, if you don't use outputs and don't addf the write_port function, the databits won't work. right?
[19:17:35] <cradek> you may be right
[19:19:47] <JanVanGilsen> i determined it because the impedance of the port stayed low, I use a zener to convert a 24V signal to a 5.1V signal. with the low impedance the zener didn't go in reverse breakdown
[19:20:44] <JanVanGilsen> the zener circuit does work on the statusbits
[19:22:16] <K`zan> Morning all.
[19:22:50] <cradek> JanVanGilsen: the parport may be different on the data port. often those 8 bits have stronger/different drivers
[19:22:50] <K`zan> Got the drive all finished last night! Now to assemble this huge pile of parts into something usable. A bit intimidating ATM :-).
[19:23:24] <K`zan> Who here is running the HobbyCNC driver? I keep forgetting.
[19:24:16] <JanVanGilsen> yes, sill i find 47 Ohms a bit low
[19:24:22] <JanVanGilsen> *still
[19:30:34] <JanVanGilsen> I'll look further into it tomorrow, thanks for helping me to understand the parport driver
[19:30:47] <cradek> good luck
[19:30:57] <cradek> don't assume the hardware isn't wierd :-)
[19:31:19] <JanVanGilsen> maybe somebody should look into the addf issue :)
[19:31:57] <cradek> the best way to assure that it is not forgotten would be to file a bugreport on sourceforge
[19:33:00] <JanVanGilsen> can somebody do that, my girlfriend is nagging me to come to bed :)
[19:33:21] <alex_joni> maybe your gf? (lol)
[19:33:25] <JanVanGilsen> its already late here :D
[19:34:02] <JanVanGilsen> maybe I'll post it tomorrow, byebye
[19:47:19] <JymmmEMC> K`zan: Urban art?
[19:50:25] <K`zan> JymmmEMC: ?? But as for urban art, we have enough people in the neighborhood with spray cans to manage that very nicely.
[19:50:58] <K`zan> Like animals urinating on their territory and it has the same odor...
[19:51:39] <K`zan> Looks like CAT5 cable should work for the steppers, depending on what current rating chart you look at....
[19:52:05] <JymmmEMC> K`zan: CAT5 is NOY shielded though, just fyi
[19:52:08] <JymmmEMC> NOT
[19:52:21] <alex_joni> CAT5 STP is
[19:52:34] <K`zan> Ah, hummm.... Probably don't have any of that.
[19:52:54] <K`zan> $45 for cables I really don't want to have to do.
[19:53:14] <K`zan> * K`zan gets out the aluminum foil :).
[19:54:30] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: do YOU have any STP? Does your company have any STP? Do you know anyone that owns a box of STP?
[19:54:41] <K`zan> Wonder how critical the current setting is on the HobbyCNC board. I can get within a mA or two but it changes a bit from power on to power on (set to 0.224A, next time I read it, it is ~0.222A (1.6A Steppers))
[19:55:06] <K`zan> So much to learn :-/.
[19:55:31] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: I have lots of STP at work
[19:55:39] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: for what?
[19:55:43] <alex_joni> wiring
[19:55:44] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: CAT5 STP
[19:56:38] <alex_joni> yeah.. what's so strange?
[19:56:54] <alex_joni> I use FTP all over, and STP when travelling outside the building :)
[19:57:07] <cradek> I've never seen CAT5 STP
[19:57:17] <cradek> it seems much more common outside the US
[19:57:21] <cradek> (I have no idea why this would be)
[19:57:26] <alex_joni> well.. they call it CAT5E STP..
[19:57:48] <alex_joni> like this: http://www.chinesemol.com/member/upload/product/82724489/200781313121742221.jpg
[19:58:17] <cradek> yep, never seen it here
[19:58:30] <alex_joni> really? it's common as dirt here
[19:58:41] <alex_joni> only minor more expensive then UTP
[19:59:52] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: CAT5 spec calls for UTP, sounds more like CAT7
[20:00:07] <JymmmEMC> invividually shielded pairs?
[20:00:14] <alex_joni> no, overall only
[20:00:26] <JymmmEMC> hmmmm, can't find a spec for that.
[20:00:50] <alex_joni> they also have CAT7 STP
[20:01:00] <alex_joni> which has individual shielded pairs
[20:01:03] <JymmmEMC> still can't find a spec for it
[20:01:14] <JymmmEMC> cat5 shielded that is
[20:01:16] <alex_joni> CAT7 STP is around 0.6 EUR/m
[20:01:27] <alex_joni> CAT5STP around 0.4 EUR/m
[20:01:41] <alex_joni> and CAT5 UTP around 0.18-0.3 EUR /m
[20:01:47] <cradek> that's like $5/ft
[20:02:17] <K`zan> Wonder what the difference is in this: The battery charger I plan on using has two settings - one for standard non-sealed lead acid and one for maintenance free and gel cells. Perhaps just bypass that switch in the rebuild.
[20:02:36] <alex_joni> cradek: thought a meter had about 3 feet?
[20:02:57] <JymmmEMC> K`zan: Girl, dont do it
[20:03:10] <alex_joni> 1$ / 3feet
[20:04:07] <JymmmEMC> K`zan: The sealed is to have lower levels of current, unsealed has higher levels, It's to prevent for overcooking the battery and letting them exhaust the acidic gases
[20:04:32] <K`zan> So leave it at lead-acid?
[20:04:51] <JymmmEMC> K`zan: are you using it with a battery?
[20:04:54] <K`zan> Supposed to be a 10A supply.
[20:05:13] <K`zan> No, it is getting hacked to be the driver power supply (24V).
[20:05:42] <K`zan> A bit higher with the cap bank. Around 30-32 IIRC (been a while). Taking it apart again now.
[20:05:45] <JymmmEMC> K`zan: then go for it... might toss a amp meter on it and see what it does (specifically in trickle charge mode)
[20:06:18] <K`zan> Wheelchair it goes to has had the batteries dead for years now. Been saving it just for this :). It has a 10A meter on the panel.
[20:07:11] <JymmmEMC> K`zan: Basicaly it prevent from boiling the electrolytic (sp) in the battery, In sealed batteries this is a bad thing and could potentially expand the outter casing.
[20:08:35] <K`zan> Ah, OK, not an issue for what I am doing with it. Can watch the meter once I get it connected to the drive and see how it affects things (or try a meter beforehand to see if it affects voltage (prolly not))
[22:13:32] <K`zan> 34.55V! Not too bad :). 42V max input.
[22:13:45] <K`zan> Oh, yeah, a bleeder resistor...
[22:14:06] <K`zan> Lemme see how about 1K / .25W ?
[22:18:08] <tomp2> no, not enuf watts (for a ps that drives motors, right?)
[22:18:43] <tomp2> unless you got milliwatt mtors
[22:24:30] <BigJohnT> anyone know how to remove a boot agent from a pentium pro 200? I'm trying to install EMC...
[22:29:17] <anonimasu> boot agent?
[22:29:40] <K`zan> tomp2: Probably not, need to figure that out again.
[22:29:53] <BigJohnT> yea, it was an old network server I think
[22:30:01] <anonimasu> hm, you mean network boot?
[22:30:21] <BigJohnT> I think so
[22:30:29] <anonimasu> there should be a chip sitting on the network card
[22:30:34] <anonimasu> (most likely)
[22:30:43] <anonimasu> eeprom
[22:30:44] <BigJohnT> I took the network card out...
[22:30:52] <anonimasu> hm, what does it do?
[22:31:17] <BigJohnT> at the moment it's booting windows 95 yea!
[22:31:25] <anonimasu> well, what's strange about that?
[22:31:53] <BigJohnT> that's the first time so far
[22:31:56] <anonimasu> :p
[22:32:11] <BigJohnT> it won't boot from the ubuntu cd
[22:32:23] <anonimasu> does it support booting from cd's?
[22:32:53] <tomp2> intel boot agent http://www3.intel.com/support/network/adapter/pro100/bootagent/
[22:33:23] <anonimasu> yes
[22:33:39] <BigJohnT> in the setup I have boot from cd first then hd the fd
[22:34:02] <anonimasu> try changing order on the IDE chain of the devices
[22:34:14] <BigJohnT> thanks tomp2
[22:34:20] <BigJohnT> ok
[22:51:39] <K`zan> Heh, YA trip to rat shack, got nothing here that will serve as a bleeder resistor - unless I want to make a pile of 1/4W ones...
[22:53:57] <anonimasu> hm, buy a proper resistor
[22:54:05] <anonimasu> buy/order
[22:54:44] <BigJohnT> looks like it was in the network card...
[22:55:21] <BigJohnT> computer must be too old to boot from the live 2.2.2 cd
[22:55:54] <BigJohnT> oh well it was worth a shot
[22:57:44] <SkinnYPupp> Try it with a newer cdrom. I have a couple around here that will boot older windows cd's but just won't do anything with a linux cd
[22:58:03] <K`zan> anonimasu: Trying to figure out what a good value for a bleeder would be, google has so far not been much help.
[22:58:50] <anonimasu> what are you discharging?
[23:00:05] <K`zan> anonimasu: About 32V across a 10A transformer (stepper supply)
[23:00:53] <K`zan> according to my calcs, 6 6800uF in paralled (40,800uF).
[23:01:12] <anonimasu> hm
[23:01:29] <anonimasu> sorry I cant really help you much with the math :/
[23:02:17] <K`zan> Me either, just gonna kluge it and guess. After about 40 minutes I am down to 30V on it :).
[23:02:23] <anonimasu> lol
[23:02:27] <anonimasu> http://www.welwyn-tt.co.uk/CalcTools.asp
[23:02:28] <anonimasu> try that
[23:02:47] <K`zan> Gonna try a pile of 1/4W to come up with about 300K. Should be fun :-/.
[23:02:51] <K`zan> Thanks, Checking now.
[23:05:20] <anonimasu> try theese values
[23:06:11] <anonimasu> 250ohm
[23:06:18] <anonimasu> and like 1v safety threshold
[23:06:35] <anonimasu> that gives a discharge time of 35s
[23:06:46] <anonimasu> 4watts power consumption
[23:07:41] <anonimasu> http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i1038/103807_2mg.jpg ^_^
[23:09:05] <K`zan> Thanks, looks like about 250ohm/5W!
[23:09:11] <anonimasu> yep
[23:09:26] <anonimasu> I have alot of thoose at work stashed away for when I find a interesting use ;)
[23:12:24] <K`zan> Rat shack has 100s and 50s at 10W
[23:12:56] <anonimasu> you'd be better off ordering a proper resistor :/
[23:13:32] <K`zan> What? Patience?
[23:13:47] <K`zan> By the time I pay shipping on one resistor, rat shack will be cheap.
[23:13:55] <anonimasu> hehe, wiring up 50 resistors is a pain
[23:14:11] <K`zan> Only 3 :) 2 100s and a 50 in series.
[23:14:23] <anonimasu> dont they have 250ohm resistors?
[23:14:29] <anonimasu> err 249ohm ;)
[23:14:35] <K`zan> Nope, they have less every time you look.
[23:14:42] <anonimasu> holy crap
[23:14:52] <K`zan> Not in anything over 1W, if that.
[23:15:19] <anonimasu> hm, paralell them to get 5w or so?
[23:15:20] <K`zan> Rat shack is beating google in the mostly useless category, but not by much :-/.
[23:15:35] <K`zan> No need if I get 10W
[23:15:48] <anonimasu> 10w?
[23:15:51] <anonimasu> resistors?
[23:15:55] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:16:01] <anonimasu> you are right
[23:16:07] <anonimasu> I just didnt read properly
[23:16:16] <anonimasu> hm, tomorrow will be a nice day
[23:16:24] <anonimasu> I have parts to make so I'll get to spend it at the mill
[23:16:31] <K`zan> Good, I could use one :).
[23:16:36] <K`zan> Ah :-)
[23:28:18] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:28:20] <anonimasu> use one?
[23:28:21] <anonimasu> mill?
[23:28:35] <anonimasu> I could use a bigger and faster one
[23:28:41] <anonimasu> and a robot..
[23:28:44] <anonimasu> and a edm..
[23:28:45] <anonimasu> :p
[23:41:32] <JymmmEMC> Hey, Since DVI is "digital", does that mean there's a way to record dvi output?