#emc | Logs for 2008-04-18

[00:34:17] <twice2> say's hiya from latest livecd
[00:36:39] <twice2> why? well i'd like to install over another version of linux
[00:37:08] <dmwaters> {server notice} Hi all! This server is going to be restarted for maintenence soon, Please switch to another server in the irc.freenode.net rotation. Thanks!
[00:40:15] <twice2> so I can try to reproduce jepler's smp/rtai amd64 kernel, but...
[00:42:32] <twice2> and yes, i'm a dummy :)
[00:42:47] <ds2> emc64?
[00:43:32] <twice2> yep
[00:43:49] <ds2> what does it get you besides 2^32 more ways to crash a machine? ;)
[00:44:21] <twice2> well, I don't know, do you?
[00:44:29] <ds2> nope
[00:44:42] <twice2> that's why i'm here
[00:44:50] <ds2> heh I see
[00:44:55] <eric_U> if you are a dummy, use the livecd
[00:45:15] <eric_U> 'cause I ain't a dummy, and I use the livecd
[00:46:41] <twice2> eric_U: i should qualify my dummy as linux installer dummy
[00:47:18] <eric_U> I assumed that
[00:47:28] <eric_U> but installing linux is relatively trivial
[00:47:44] <eric_U> the rocket science starts later in the game
[00:48:17] <twice2> so it is said, a picture is worth...
[00:49:05] <twice2> how could i screen shot where i am at in the livecd install process 5 of 6 and pastebin it?
[00:49:06] <dmess> anyone ever used a blackberry on a linux system and managed to sync with evolution?
[00:49:54] <twice2> eric_U?
[00:49:56] <jmkasunich> you had me eliminated at "used a blackberry" ;-)
[00:50:51] <eric_U> what's up with the livecd?
[00:54:12] <twice2> oh well, i thought it sounded like i was asking for a little help
[00:54:20] <dmwaters> {server notice} Hi all! This server is going to be restarted soon, please switch to another server in the irc.freenode.net rotation. Thanks!
[00:54:30] <eric_U> what specific help do you need?
[00:54:48] <eric_U> you booted the livecd?
[00:54:56] <twice2> yep
[00:55:04] <eric_U> and it broke on install?
[00:55:09] <twice2> nope
[00:55:40] <eric_U> if you were asking about taking a screen shot, hit printscreen and save it to a usb flash drive
[00:56:10] <eric_U> or you could upload it directly
[00:56:37] <twice2> dont have one, but live i will try save elsewhere
[00:56:59] <eric_U> you are posting from the livecd comp?
[00:58:22] <twice2> yep
[00:58:55] <eric_U> you can take a screenshot, save it to the file system and upload it
[01:00:08] <twice2> yep, before i hit shift printscreen (dummy part) now i can capture it
[01:00:48] <twice2> but, now, i must retire to my domestic duty
[01:01:02] <twice2> eric_U: thank you
[01:01:10] <eric_U> sure
[18:29:40] <ChanServ> [#emc] "This is the #emc channel - talk related to the Enhanced Machine Controller and general machining. Website: http://www.linuxcnc.org/, wiki at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/"
[18:37:21] <xyzee> can anyone help configuring my driver. I can't find step time, step space, direction or setup
[18:39:15] <fenn> what's the driver model number?
[18:39:27] <fenn> or name or whatever
[18:48:51] <xyzee> msd524...nowhere on data sheet does it mention thes parameters
[18:54:43] <ds2> wheeee lunch
[19:13:31] <archivist> xyzee, msd542 not msd524?
[19:16:44] <archivist> step time could be inferred from the max input frequency
[19:17:03] <archivist> but that seems too high on the datasheet
[19:17:45] <dwery> my machine needs to perform some actions before the real workflow begins, like activating the vacuum pump and similar things. what would be the best way to program this sequence in emc2?
[19:18:17] <cradek> there are gcodes for mist and flood coolant. maybe you could use those.
[19:18:31] <seb_kuzminsky> or do it in the hal init files?
[19:18:33] <dwery> i believe there are ore actions than gcodes :)
[19:19:05] <dwery> it is something programmatica, like activate the pump, check that input 1 is p, activate this other thing, check this and that..
[19:21:30] <cradek> maybe you could do that all before/when/after the spindle comes on? or maybe at tool load time?
[19:22:18] <jepler> xyzee: if the datasheet gives 400kHz for "pulse input frequency" (the datasheet I found for mds542 does), then entering steplen and stepspace each as 2500ns is going to be a fine conservative setting which won't have much impact on your max step rate if you're using the parport.
[19:23:15] <jepler> (400kHz means one step is possible per 2500ns, so clearly the required high time and low time are each less than 2500ns ..)
[19:24:17] <archivist> I would like to see a stepper go at that speed
[19:24:50] <jepler> likewise, putting a very conservative number in for dirsetup/dirhold won't affect the maximum step rate; you might try 50000ns to choose an arbitrary number
[19:25:42] <archivist> looks a bit like the same case style that another british suplier of drives sells
[19:25:50] <jepler> ah, I found that this pdf has more than one page. page 2 says "direction signal should be sent to driver 2us before the first pulse in reverse motion direction" -- that means dirsetup=2000 (ns)
[19:26:18] <jepler> also, "for reliable response, [step] pulse width should be longer than 1.5uS" -- that means steptime=1500ns
[19:26:30] <jepler> stepspace=2500-1500 = 1000
[19:26:54] <jepler> archivist: this pdf shows that the drive can do 1/125 stepping units
[19:27:03] <archivist> yup true
[19:27:24] <dwery> cradek: I have to do it before
[19:28:14] <jepler> at that setting, 400kHz is only 1200rpm
[19:30:31] <cradek> dwery: before what?
[19:31:03] <cradek> I'm thinking along these lines: you have to trigger these things with some event; what event can it be?
[19:31:09] <dwery> cradek: before each piece is tooled
[19:31:29] <cradek> brb
[19:31:33] <dwery> k
[19:31:35] <archivist> jepler less data on the other suppliers site
[19:31:51] <jepler> archivist: I'm looking at this: http://www.motioncontrolproducts.com/download131.html
[19:32:43] <archivist> yup I have that open
[19:33:34] <archivist> another UK supplier arc euro trade seem to have similar/same stuff under different numbers
[19:35:14] <xyzee> Thanks for this.. all I want is to get this thing going consistantly. At the moment it is just hit and miss
[19:36:30] <archivist> xyzee, I use another model of possibly the same rang and had to level shift to get clean stepping
[19:42:07] <xyzee> archivist, not sure what you mean, I am the ultimate newbie.
[19:43:23] <archivist> it needed a good 5v on its inputs, the parallel port high was 3 and abit
[19:44:02] <jepler> xyzee: To help protect your computer if something should fail inside the stepper driver or with the high voltage power supply, a thing called an "optoisolator" is used on the inputs from the computer to the stepper driver box.
[19:45:03] <jepler> xyzee: the downside of using an optoisolator is that it requires a higher electrical current than the normal kinds of connections between computer devices
[19:45:26] <jepler> in the case of the MSD542 it is up to 16mA, while most connections between computer devices have much lower requirements, maybe less than 1mA
[19:46:42] <jepler> an "optoisolator" is essentially a little device with an LED and a photosensitive transistor inside. The input current makes the LED light up, which causes the transistor to turn on, which is sensed by the rest of the circuitry in the stepper driver and it does something
[19:46:57] <xyzee> looking at the side of the driver it says PUL+ (+5V) an DIR+ (+5V). Does that help?
[19:47:51] <jepler> if it's designed to turn on with 10mA of electrical current but you actually get 1mA, then the transistor won't turn on and off reliably and completely, which will make the whole thing act flaky
[19:49:33] <fenn> (if its a parport optoisolator and designed to turn on with 10mA, it's a bad design)
[19:49:49] <xyzee> hmm that is interesting. Sometimes it runs well and other times very slowly and I cannot figure out why
[19:50:10] <jepler> fenn: no, this is a motor driver
[19:50:31] <jepler> xyzee: are you connecting PUL+ and PUL- directly to the PC, or do you have a "break-out board"?
[19:50:58] <xyzee> I have a break-out board
[19:51:13] <fenn> ooh patented technology! it makes me want to give them all my money
[19:51:58] <xyzee> Are you telling me I bought a turkey?
[19:52:27] <jepler> xyzee: if you have a break-out board then I am more likely to be on the wrong track with my suggestions
[19:52:35] <fenn> does the break-out board boost the signal in any way? with a buffer chip of some sort
[19:53:09] <fenn> i've seen lots that are just connectors, basically
[19:53:41] <xyzee> I don't think so.. it looks like a fairly simple piece of kit
[19:53:52] <jepler> xyzee: do you have to hook a power supply to the break-out board?
[19:54:07] <xyzee> no
[19:55:05] <archivist> then likely time to make a buffer board of some sort
[19:55:58] <fenn> you should come up with a test procedure to verify that the opto isnt getting enough current
[19:56:16] <xyzee> How will that work and what will it involve
[19:56:40] <cradek> here's a cadillac breakout board, but $81 http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-122/
[19:56:42] <archivist> do you have a scope or multimeter xyzee
[19:56:47] <fenn> take a multimeter, measure the current going through step and ground terminals on the drive
[19:57:15] <fenn> using a resistor, change the amount of current, until it behaves differently
[19:57:25] <xyzee> no scope or multimeter i'm afraid
[19:57:33] <fenn> better get a multimeter at least
[19:57:37] <archivist> xyzee, where are you
[19:57:42] <xyzee> uk
[19:58:07] <archivist> I guessed that bit, east midlands here
[19:58:28] <xyzee> Cornwall
[19:58:53] <archivist> oops far away
[20:00:41] <xyzee> Why would the motors run inconsistantly? and are ther any safe settings I can use
[20:00:58] <anonimasu> xyzee: because you do not have enough curren to make the drives step reliably
[20:01:05] <anonimasu> current..
[20:01:33] <anonimasu> maybe
[20:01:49] <archivist> poor voltages on the drives inputs, or incorrect speed, steppers need accelerating carfully
[20:02:12] <fenn> it says 7mA minimum logic signal current.. but i always thought a parport would just burn out if you draw too much current from it
[20:02:55] <xyzee> Surely the current is supplied by the 'step and servo power supply' I have
[20:03:22] <anonimasu> But not on the step/dir pins
[20:03:29] <archivist> xyzee, still a small current in the signal connection
[20:04:01] <anonimasu> they draw current off your parport
[20:04:29] <archivist> the parport needs to source enough current for the drives opto inputs
[20:04:41] <fenn> the led's in the opto isolator is coming frlom the parport (unless you have a buffer chip between the parport and the opto)
[20:05:06] <fenn> see figure 6 in the "datasheet"
[20:05:39] <rayh> xyzee: What are you using to break out the signals from your parallel port?
[20:05:53] <xyzee> I have dip switches on the drive that allow me to select current from 1 amp to 4.2 amp. Should a choose a low setting?
[20:06:03] <fenn> no, that current is unrelated
[20:06:19] <anonimasu> xyzee: you need to look at your motors to set that correctly :)
[20:07:05] <xyzee> rayh: I think the answer to your question is a printer cable
[20:07:41] <rayh> You spread out the wires from a parallel port cable?
[20:09:21] <xyzee> Data sheet on motors gives current phase o 4.2A .. thats good hey?
[20:09:42] <fenn> hmm.. for $81 and not learning about electronics by blowing up your drives, pmdx-122 sounds like a good deal
[20:11:13] <rayh> I've cut the end off a parallel port cable and separated out the wires but you don't get much signal from them.
[20:11:45] <anonimasu> stepper drive failures are spectacular
[20:11:53] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:12:50] <xyzee> Rayh: I connect parallel port cable to break-out board then 6 of the pins go off to the drives
[20:13:16] <rayh> Ah okay.
[20:13:59] <rayh> Your breakout board is just jumper wires or traces without any chips or components?
[20:15:18] <xyzee> Rayh: yes. I realy want to go open source, but shoul d I try mach 3 or something
[20:17:01] <rayh> No. The problem is that the pulses from your parallel port are not powerful (amps times current) to signal the drive you are using.
[20:17:41] <rayh> the suggestion by fenn to use a pmdx 122 is one good solution.
[20:18:19] <rayh> Although I have uses a pci parport card that puts out five volts to do something similar.
[20:18:46] <rayh> uses/used sorry
[20:20:12] <xyzee> I will look into this PMDX 122...got to go, thanx for your time guys
[20:20:42] <rayh> You'll get it going.
[20:20:52] <rayh> This bunch can help a lot.
[20:23:05] <archivist> allways someone here just wait for an answer
[22:05:27] <Jymmmmmm> well, steve totally botched up everything at the conf i-went bezerk and ran thru the halls naked
[22:06:06] <Jymmmmmm> ok, gave good. Presentaion =)
[22:06:24] <seb_kuzminsky> but did he give a good presentation *naked*?
[22:06:49] <Jymmmmmm> but I never said that - his head is almost as big as alex's is already
[22:07:21] <Jymmmmmm> lol
[22:07:26] <eric_U> what was the title of his talk?
[22:08:17] <seb_kuzminsky> "why you should wear clothes while running cnc mills"
[22:08:26] <Jymmmmmm> emc2 a realtime linux case study
[22:08:38] <eric_U> cool
[22:08:43] <eric_U> what conference?
[22:12:34] <alex_joni> seb_kuzminsky: why you "shouldn't" wear clothes while running cnc mills
[22:12:51] <alex_joni> they tend to get caught up in various gears & places
[22:12:56] <alex_joni> so you're better off without
[22:13:05] <alex_joni> Jymmmmmm: who's head?
[22:13:51] <archivist> when the swarf is flying at me I wear some clothes
[22:14:28] <Jymmmmmm> alex YOURS
[22:14:28] <archivist> damned pockets of brass....
[22:14:43] <alex_joni> Jymmmmmm: who said it's big?
[22:17:55] <eric_U> ya, those little chips flyin' everywhere, clothes are better than no clothes
[22:17:58] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: like this? http://www.practicalmachinist.com/pulscale.jpg
[22:19:09] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: yeah :D
[22:19:14] <alex_joni> only I look better than that
[22:19:16] <alex_joni> ROFL
[22:35:09] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:36:22] <EMTFFKev> Getting a problem with unrecognized gcode...does anyone know how to export gcode from mastercam that works with EMC?
[22:37:20] <EMTFFKev> Or...To make EMC recognize the gcode that I am getting from mastercam? Either or really...
[22:38:16] <eric_U> didn't I see that there was a mastercam post for emc somewhere?
[22:38:48] <EMTFFKev> if there is, I haven't been able to find it :(
[22:39:02] <eric_U> what post are you using?
[22:39:58] <EMTFFKev> ummm...not sure really...I'm new to this so whatever the default one is with Mastercam, I'm using Mastercam at my school right now so I'll have to check real quick
[22:41:17] <EMTFFKev> i think this is it...mprouter.pst
[22:41:51] <EMTFFKev> basically...the exported gcode will run fine with mach3, but i don't like mach3 and it wont work for emc for some reason
[22:43:01] <archivist> probably need to create a file to say what emc can do
[22:43:48] <EMTFFKev> dang...had hoped it'd be something fairly easy, not sure how to make a custom post file
[22:44:32] <archivist> hmm google for mastercam pst emc
[22:48:03] <EMTFFKev> I'll give google a shot at it, but haven't had any luck so far
[22:48:10] <archivist> EMTFFKev, found this <fenn> you can usually use a fanuc post
[22:48:30] <eric_U> that's what I remembered
[22:49:01] <jmkasunich> never listen to that fenn guy!
[22:49:22] <eric_U> now I really doubt my memory...
[22:50:11] <jmkasunich> never listen to that jmk guy either
[22:50:16] <archivist> hmm must try as i accidently have a package on mah peeeceee
[22:51:28] <eric_U> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-47744.html not that great
[22:54:35] <archivist> until you get to the bottom of the page, then great using wrong version of pst file in later mastercam
[23:00:05] <EMTFFKev> I can't even figure out how to change the pst file lol
[23:02:06] <BigJohnT> what version?
[23:02:11] <EMTFFKev> ok...well I guess I'll try this another way...I have a .dxf of the part I want to cut and need to make the gcode for it, any suggestions? I don't have any cash for a cam program now
[23:02:22] <EMTFFKev> so I'm looking for something free and useful lol
[23:02:31] <EMTFFKev> version of MC or EMC?
[23:02:37] <BigJohnT> mc
[23:02:45] <EMTFFKev> x2 mr2
[23:04:22] <BigJohnT> in 9 you go to Screen/ Configure to change the post file or you do it when you generate the g code
[23:06:50] <BigJohnT> how complicated is the part?
[23:08:18] <EMTFFKev> a gear
[23:08:40] <EMTFFKev> to be honost though it does it with anything i try to post
[23:08:44] <BigJohnT> nice
[23:08:48] <EMTFFKev> so it could be as simple as a square
[23:09:00] <BigJohnT> kinda tough to do by hand
[23:09:18] <BigJohnT> I just stepped in so can you fill me in on what it does?
[23:09:37] <EMTFFKev> the error? or the gear? lol
[23:10:07] <BigJohnT> the error
[23:10:14] <BigJohnT> and the gear
[23:10:19] <EMTFFKev> emc is telling my I have unrecognized gcode at around line 5...
[23:10:23] <EMTFFKev> Line 5 is...
[23:10:47] <EMTFFKev> N104 G90 M05 Z0
[23:10:50] <BigJohnT> ok what is on line 5?
[23:11:19] <EMTFFKev> but if I try another part...just a simple 2x2 square
[23:11:30] <EMTFFKev> i get the same error with diff line numbers
[23:11:31] <fenn> EMTFFKev: is it 2d more or less?
[23:11:36] <EMTFFKev> yes
[23:12:09] <jmkasunich> EMTFFKev: is there a G0 or G1 on a preceding line?
[23:12:35] <EMTFFKev> no
[23:12:42] <jmkasunich> there is your problem - the Z0
[23:13:15] <fenn> add a g0 to the line
[23:13:17] <jmkasunich> you have to have a movement command in effect before sending a coordinate
[23:13:22] <jmkasunich> fenn: not so fast
[23:13:24] <EMTFFKev> oops i just saw a g0 on a previous line
[23:13:28] <fenn> hrm.
[23:13:37] <EMTFFKev> N100 G17 G20 G90 G40 G80 G64 G49 G0 M05
[23:13:40] <EMTFFKev> 2 lines prior
[23:13:58] <fenn> ugh i hate g-code
[23:14:01] <jmkasunich> fenn: sorry - but I wouldn't say to "insert a rapid" until you know why the move is taking place - maybe it was supposed to be a G1, or maybe its jsut a bug
[23:14:17] <jmkasunich> EMTFFKev: that is some dumb g-code
[23:14:34] <EMTFFKev> auto generated from mastercam lol
[23:14:51] <jmkasunich> most of the tings on line N100 are setup kinds of things, which is fine
[23:14:56] <fenn> EMTFFKev: if you want something that should "just work" i found this program to be quite usable for simple things:
[23:15:05] <BigJohnT> what post did you use
[23:15:08] <jmkasunich> but G0 is a motion command - I never write one of those unless I'm telling the machine to move
[23:15:54] <jmkasunich> and M05 is "spindle off", why are they turning it off in N100 and again in N104?
[23:16:38] <BigJohnT> I just tested it and it does work to issue a g0 then on the next line a coordinate
[23:16:46] <jmkasunich> I know it works
[23:16:49] <jmkasunich> but its still dumb
[23:17:01] <fenn> g0 is a mode, not a command? (depending on your persuasion)
[23:17:10] <BigJohnT> I agree it's bad form
[23:17:10] <EMTFFKev> post is mprouter.pst
[23:17:53] <BigJohnT> did you try a generic fanuc post?
[23:18:41] <EMTFFKev> ummm....you lost me there :( I don't know much about posts so you'll have to elaborate a bit there sorry
[23:18:52] <EMTFFKev> I'm about as new as it gets
[23:20:07] <BigJohnT> when you generate the g code you should have the chance to pick the post you want to use. They are just text files so you can open them up and see the comments that tell what each one is for
[23:20:32] <BigJohnT> find the one that is "generic fanuc" and start with it
[23:20:47] <EMTFFKev> when i try to generate the gcode it shows wat post I'm using, but the drop down box is grey'd out so I can't select it
[23:21:05] <fenn> it might be called 'mpfan'
[23:21:19] <BigJohnT> hmmm
[23:21:32] <BigJohnT> doing one at the moment
[23:22:16] <BigJohnT> in the Post Processing window does it have a button "change post"
[23:24:14] <EMTFFKev> well let me start by asking this...do you use the button in the operations window on the left that looks like a g1 and says post selected operations?/
[23:24:19] <rayh> Looks like we have an interpreter problem. EMTFFKev: said N100 G17 G20 G90 G40 G80 G64 G49 G0 M05
[23:24:21] <EMTFFKev> or am i doing it wrong?
[23:24:47] <rayh> g0 and g80 are from the same modal group and should raise an error if they coexist on a line. But they do not here.
[23:25:06] <rayh> The g80 is ignored and the other motion command takes precidence.
[23:25:08] <BigJohnT> in my operations window it has a button on the right that says "post"
[23:27:10] <BigJohnT> anyhow I'm working on an EMC post for mc but it's not done yet but now that I need it it might speed up the process
[23:28:04] <EMTFFKev> sorry guys got booted
[23:28:38] <EMTFFKev> it does look like I have a button in my post window that says "select post" but the whole area there is grey and cannot be modified
[23:29:51] <BigJohnT> I have mc9 so I'm just guessing on what you have for the gui...
[23:30:04] <rayh> EMTFFKev: Did you post this code someplace for us to look at?
[23:30:17] <BigJohnT> I'm working on an emc post for mc but it'
[23:30:22] <BigJohnT> s not done yet
[23:30:31] <archivist> * archivist has 8 and just looked at mpfan.pst....phew
[23:30:43] <EMTFFKev> erm...i can post it real fast...one sec
[23:31:04] <rayh> thanks
[23:31:55] <BigJohnT> archivist, I gutted that one a lot but there is still some gloat left skim off
[23:34:52] <EMTFFKev> http://www.myhomecnc.info/files/TEST-GEAR.NC
[23:34:56] <EMTFFKev> here is gcode
[23:36:11] <BigJohnT> hmmm the MP_EZ.pst is real close to what we need.... It just has one error...
[23:37:08] <rayh> I don't understand N102 G8 P1
[23:39:11] <rayh> nor N106 G52 X0. Y0. Z0.
[23:40:05] <rayh> g8 does not take a parameter and there is no g52 ... at least I don't remember having these in there.
[23:41:14] <rayh> the g8 p1 does raise a unknown g code used.
[23:41:40] <BigJohnT> archivist: do you have the MP_EZ.pst
[23:41:51] <rayh> so does the g52
[23:42:17] <archivist> BigJohnT, hmm just told the box to shutdown
[23:42:24] <BigJohnT> ok
[23:42:46] <archivist> nearly 1 am and was about to go home
[23:43:07] <rayh> I confess this is a 2.1.? release. I'll try a more recent in a bit.
[23:43:16] <BigJohnT> make a note to look for that one it almost works...
[23:44:14] <EMTFFKev> I just tried exporting a simple 2x2 box and again the same error message on line 5
[23:44:41] <EMTFFKev> N104 G90 M05 Z0
[23:44:43] <EMTFFKev> is line 5
[23:46:31] <BigJohnT> EMTFFKev: go to the mcam directory and see if you have the above post
[23:47:55] <EMTFFKev> I have mpfan.pst and mprouter.pst are the only two i can find
[23:48:26] <BigJohnT> hmmm
[23:48:40] <BigJohnT> you might try the mpfan.pst
[23:52:01] <EMTFFKev> I'll try that real quick
[23:52:31] <rayh> The error is NOT on line n104
[23:52:39] <EMTFFKev> for some reason it wouldn't let me switch .pST files so i am restarting MC to see if there was just an issue
[23:55:26] <EMTFFKev> ok...brb, MC and machine are not same computer have to go check EMC for error
[23:57:41] <EMTFFKev> ok...new error
[23:58:00] <EMTFFKev> bad character or something like that
[23:58:03] <EMTFFKev> this is the line
[23:58:15] <EMTFFKev> N106 G0 G90 G54 X-1.3527 Y.348 A0. S1069 M3
[23:58:26] <BigJohnT> the A0. is bad
[23:58:39] <BigJohnT> remove it and try again
[23:58:56] <EMTFFKev> so basically I'm gonna have to post the gcode then go through and manually alter it line by line to fix it?
[23:58:58] <EMTFFKev> lol
[23:59:01] <EMTFFKev> brb lemme try that