zeroed now, but stalled out at f5, about 250 step/sec
all I asked was the DRO number
so the DRO says zero
its now zero
under the MDI entry box is an "Active G-code" box
does it have G93 or G94 in it?
if i set a jog to 720, its is 30 seconds per full table rev, yes on g93
can you have multiple halmeters running concurrently?
gene: please stop doing stuff and just bear with me, PLEASE
that 720=30 secs is without the G93 however, previously measured
gene: the fact that you have G93 showing means that you are still in inverse time mode, and all the things you have been trying have been wasting time
what halmeters, and I'll do a g94
gene: halmeters have nothing to do with you
do the G94, and verify that it appears in the active g-codes box
then try various simple A axis mves
if you are in G94, and moving ONLY the A axis, then the F word value is in degrees per minute
make sure you can move the axis at least 720 degrees per minute when you are running it by itself
gene: are you still with us?
g1a360f360 turned one turn in 59 seconds, and that is slow.
now try this:
A is still at 360, right?
checking, 720/minute is reasonable speed IF the spindle is runing, the bit is againsst the work
Not sure why, but I'm impressed that this gamepad register any/all of it's controls at the same time.
gene: I'm very patiently trying to walk you through something, but you keep going off and doing other stuff
a=0 atm, next
I have no clue what you are doing, all I know is that you disappear for minutes at a time
did you enter the G93 that I asked you to?
i aws doing the checks to see if 720 was a good speed, it is
If thats next?
<jmkasunich> now try this:
<jmkasunich> A is still at 360, right?
g93 entered abd displayed
and A is at zero
no, its at 0.0 atm
now do this: G1A360F1
that should turn one rev in one minute
and stop with A = 360
and the spindle is idling at about 1oo rpm so it doesn't interfere
what does the spindle have to do with anything?
the spindle should be off, and the tool and workpiece should be far away
while doing any testing at least
you gotta make sure your program is gonna do the right thing before you insert tooling and work and start the spindle
close enough for the girls we go with
jmkasunich: Damn, you have some fast girls out there
now try G1A0F2
that should take you back to zero (one full turn) in 30 seconds
shouldn't it take 2 minutes?
no, inverse time is _inverse_ time ;-)
F2 = do it in 1/2 minute
F10 is do it in 1/10 minute
F60 = 1/60m = 1s ?
when I thought I saw the weirdest things about g-code.. another crazyness pops up
gene - so far so good
now, what does the DRO say for the X axis?
lets try a combined move
can you tell me what that is gonna do?
it should move X by 1 inch, and move A by one rev (360 degrees) and it should to that in 20 seconds (1/3 of a minute, since F3)
that will take me into the tailstock if i let it run, and if f3=too fast for the table
ok, then don't do it
jmkasunich: Well, I was close... I was thinking absolute 1.0, not relative
how fast can the table move?
how about x.5 & f2, that will clear everything
ok, G1X0.5A360F2 should move a half inch, and turn one full rev, and take 30 seconds
720 degrees a minute is comfy, free, maybe 1200, but this will be ubder cutting loads
720 degrees a minute is comfy, free, maybe 1200, but this will be under cutting loads
I don't care right now
SWPLinux: Ok, I had 2.2 on the laptop (not for long though) and halmeters are all showing up properly for all axis and buttons.
I'm trying to make sure you understand how inverse time works
then you can calculate the feeds and speeds yourself, to suit your cut
ok, that appeared to work correctly
are you catching on to how inverse time works now?
Now to apply inverse time to REAL LIFE.... "Yes folks, put in your 8 hours for the boss in only 20 minutes!"
sign me up!
JymmmEMC: I'm goinh to grab a bite and then head over. I have the board done
SWPLinux: when is the demo?
maybe by then I'll find the nic for the laptop
crunch time eh?
we can talk about getting the machine here once I get there
gene: I have things I need to do.... are you doing OK?
JymmmEMC: do you have a DVI-DVI cable I can borrow?
SWPLinux: I could care less about that, I'm trying to get it going so I can machien the front and back plates.
or one of those DVI->VGA adapter dongles
oh, that ;)
SWPLinux: Ha! I got dvi jack crap.
SWPLinux: what you need dvi cable for?
no, no matter whar f i enter, a is running wide open at 72 degrees a sec
hmmm. do you need the board tonight? if not, it's easier for me to not bring it
gene: wait a minute
my laptop has a DVI-I connector, all the cables I've seen here are DVI (projector end) to VGA (computer end)
SWPLinux: only if you want to test it BEFORE the last minute.
I guess I could reverse one of those :)
what did that mean?
before the last minute?
SWPLinux: no vga, no paraport, what a crappy laptop you have.. not good for nuttin is it
there's a Yanni tune called "Before The Last Moment"
DVI baby :P
who has VGA these days?
gene: about 7 mins ago I asked you to enter G1X0.5A360F2
what happened when you did that?
ok, that appeared to work correctly
you didn't say a word
now you say no matter what you do it doesn't work
SWPLinux: I might have one at work you could borrow DVI2VGA
turn 360 in half a minute while x went to .5
ok, it worked perfectly
what did you try next?
well, I said 29.5 at the time :)
hmmm. nevermind. they have DVI->DVI cables, I just wanted to test before the last minute ;)
gene: are you running between two computers to do all this?
but I can do that by reversing the DVI->VGA cable
SWPLinux: test what?!
what did you try next?
laptop->projector connection, X modelines for the proj, etc.
g1f.241x-.290a29822, and a runs at maxvel & stalls in 5 degrees
of course it doesd
you just told it to go 29822 degrees in 1/.241 minutes
then i tried f1, f2, f3, none of which changed a thing
each of those was telling it to go even faster
go 29822 degrees in 1/1 minute, 1/2 minute, 1/3 minute
keep in mind that is about a 40 minute move you just started
if it appears to be doing the right thing, you're gonna want to hit escape ;-)
i doubt it, a still moves a couple of degrees wide open & stalls
oops, right - I slipped a digit
ok, it is possible you've found a bug
gene: you're still in inverse time mode?
you have a radical difference between your angular distance and your linear distance
what I was trying to do was work up to that in steps
yes, g93 is activeAnd with that, I'm freezing
gotta run. bbl
gene: maybe time to call it a night - I need to go the other way, I have work to do on my mill, out in my cold garage
I was hoping to to it before it got dark ;-(
the missus just got back from bowling, and i need to put stuff away too, sometime tomorrow maybe
thanks for the help, maybe we do have aq bug
you need to start easy and work up
start with moving X 0.25 inches and A one rev
then X 0.25 and A 10 revs
each time, pick an appropriate time for the move
1 rev = F2 (half a minute)
10 revs = F0.2 (1/0.2 = 5 minutes)
in both cases you will be doing 720 degrees per minute
one other Q, i have an electronic digital caliper, its battery is fresh, but hthe display blinks once per sec, anybody know what that is trying to tell me?
me either, but its still accurate
gene: replace the new almost-dead battery =)
goodnight all. i'm gone.
a 357=1.468 volts is deaqd?
a 357=1.468 volts is dead?
gene: It's trying to tell you ... "If you build, they won't come"
see what is says?
its in the plastic box & buried someplace I can't find it ATM
remember the mfg or where you got it from?
ah, no idea. others have the manual available online
Um, is there an easy way to add a partition (that already exists) to grub?
as a boot menu option that is
isn't the grub config in /boot
ok, I added the entries to menu.lst, but I forget how I update it.... grub update?
ah... sudo update-grub
wtf... the option didn't show up when I rebooted =(
even worse, it erased what I added =(
weird, just added it back w/o running update-grub and it worked.
grub always reads menu.lst - you don't need to do an update
seasons change too
M40 = Neutral, M41=Low, M42=High/2nd, M43= High/3rd
what about 5th, 6th, etc?
most big iron only have hi/lo
skunkworks machine has 16
but I do have a 6speed
3 lo, 3 hi
(it is old enough that it doesn't have a variable speed motor drive, so it has lots of gears instead)
the M40, 41, etc is somebody's approach I assume? who?
but back to basics - a bridgeport needs a M41 and M42
who defined M41 and M42 as the codes? you? some control maker? if so, which one?
Fanuc, Okuma and Mazak all use M41/M42
ok - that is usefull info
Okuma adds M43 cause many of there machines used to have 3speed geear boxes
personally I think I'd rather have Msomething Pn, where n is the gear number, because it covers any number of speeds
Well - I agree for many options - including one of my own
I have a 6 sp
it is very good to know what the big guys do, but EMC should try to do what is best
so I would like to call out Sxxx M41 P1
not confusing people who use other controllers is certainly something that needs to be kept in mind
which would be lo gear #1
our lathe has m41-43, which are lo/hi/auto
fanuc on a mori
reason its important for Bridgeports is the "FWD" direction changes between lo/hi
"auto" attempts to decide for itself what is the best gear, based on the S word?
if you are going up in speed, it shifts at about 700 rpm
toasty - try an MDI - M40 - on our older Hitachi Seiki thats Neutral
skullworks_pgab: 40 is neutral.
same on our mill
and we have a tong il lathe that also uses that whole set
but it's still a fanuc
funny thing is on most newer machines the have eliminated the gearbox
small new machines have no gearbox.
small being like, 20-30 hp and under
high speed machines obviously have no gearbox
machines smaller than my motorhome
well, i'm still talking machines in the ~20 swing range
Our 30 HP Mori mill is all motor
< toastydeath> small being like, 20-30 hp and under
21,000 lbs little
we have a 21,000 lb lathe with a 8x10 envelope.
(doesn't have a gearbox tho)
what thru the draw tude dia?
i've never taken the collet nose off it
in fact i think i've only used it once?
someone else is "assigned" to the small lathes.
where did this m-code thing come up from anyway
I have to police the whole building... There are always a dozen crisis to resolve
toastydeath: it came from a discussion on the users list
BTW JMK - the M41 to M42 gear shift looks alot like the Mazak video when the spindle orients for the tool change
we didn't take a video of the mazak doing a gear change - we should have
stops, rotates a bit at like 15 rpm while the gears mesh then is ready.
we did the change itself in hal + classicladder - you set a hal signal to tell it what gear to be in
yep, we did it that way too
Hal + CL is almost limitless, the hardest part is getting enough I/O channels available.
yep - on the Mazak we have a motenc with 4 encoders and 4 DACs plus something like 16 I/O, plus another card that has 24 I/O
what were the DAC's for?
+/- 10v on the servo ?
is there any reason why a basic johnson counter can't be used to drive a stepper if a chopper drive isn't needed?
a johnson counter counts in binary - I don't see how this is the right waveform for a stepper
soulrider__ is now known as soulrider
if you're going to make your own drives, you can just have stepgen generate the waveforms anyway
maybe I got the wrong name then
remember the old CD4017?
thought those were johnson counters
don't think so, but no matter
it has 10 pins and it drives each pin one at a time
johnson is a chain of /2 FFs I think
oops, I think you're right
regardless of the names
steppers don't like this kind of full stepping though. best to use halfstepping which stepgen can generate directly
this is more of an mental experiment then an actual thing
soemthing like that driving a 2N2222 on each phase.... one place had each phased wired up to a paper clip and if you close them in order, thestepper moves
this shows some of the waveforms useful for driving a stepper: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_rtcomps.html#sub:Stepgen-Step-Types
you could definitely generate them with some logic like you're saying
I think type 9 is often the most useful
since it is only 8 states, you could generate it with a 4017 and some discrete logic
(but that's the kind of thing software is good at doing...)
I don't doubt that
btw, if I want the simpliest type of driver, can I get away with 4 FETs + 4 diodes on a parallel port w/EMC?
in theory yes
in practice a drive like that works pretty badly
but a parport has 12 outputs. many simple drivers use these lines to run 3 motors like you say.
I would like to through together a quick and dirty 3 axis motion platform (plywood base + drawer slides))
just something to test ideas out
consider a xylotex board (less than $100? for 3 axis)
err $155 I guess
think the $100 is the kit
but those are unipolar drives, IIRC -- the salvage motors I have are bipolar
incorrect, xylotex is bipolar
anyway, you cannot make a simple driver with 4 transistors, for bipolar motors
I can't? doh
no you need in general a pair of H bridges per motor
that's basically what the L298 is
arrg.thought those chips are for a higher performance chopper drive
yes L298 are commonly paired with current sense and L297 which makes them into a chopper
you could make L297/L298 drivers but you probably won't be done before you've spent your $155 anyway
(I did this for my little mill - I wouldn't do it again if I was doign it over)
if I were doing it, I wouldn't do those chips... the most complexity I would attempt is a few transistors + diode
then you need unipolar motors
back to more scavaging
lewin1 is now known as lewing
Does this look reasonable for a break out board?: http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-DB25-Breakout-Board-adapter-stepper-motor-driver_W0QQitemZ300216664162QQihZ020QQcategoryZ50971QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
They have a non-isolated version, but I don't think I want that.
K`zan: the price looks right for the hardware, but are you really sure you need the couplers?
Would rather not toast parallel ports, especially with them getting rare on newer machines.
personally, I'd slap together a breakout board for $5 out of protoboard and some screw terms
but that's not really a prohibitive price, and you only really need 1
Could do that, got a pile of 4N38s, but I am not sure they are quick enough, need to look over the data sheet.
Price on that seemed reasonable enough for IG (instant gratification takes too long to say :).
oh, I meant just screw term -> paraport
That is easy but leaves the port open to abuse while I play around and experiment. Not like I am just going to get geckos right off the bat, will probably look up the AVR drives I did a while back.
Or something cheap and dirty for some smallish steppers.
cheap and dirtY?
use the mcwire drivers :d
Just something simple to get going with so I can figure out the design -> gcode stage. Hardware, I suspect, is going to be the easy part :p).
they're like, $5
[06:11:08] <sweeper> http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-build-CNC-Mill-Stepper-Motor-and-Driver-ci/
Ah, that one, same place I found the mill!
This one looks interesting too, especially since I have dug in boxes for the past couple day and can't find those NEMA17 steppers I got from Jameco a good while back.
[06:15:55] <K`zan> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=220222522211&Category=71394
did you buy it?
oh, that particular auction got bought, so I wondered :)
Still looking, I want something to play with until I can afford the geckos.
Giving reasonable serious thought to knocking this together for something to do while I save for the real stuff :):
[06:26:05] <K`zan> http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-Build-Desk-Top-3-Axis-CNC-Milling-Machine/
I'm going for something similar
probably mdf framed tho
and a bit bigger
actually, come to think about it, it's not gonna be similar at ALL except it'll use the same drivers (breadboarded) until I design better ones :D
will be glad when I have SOMETHING to be able to something with, even if it is reasonably small and perhaps time consuming. I got real tired of the drill and file.
Just like that but differernt, eh? :-) :-) :-)
well, that instructable is what got me hooked
I've been hooked ,just saving $$$ to cnc the uMill
but I ahve the tools to do better, so I might as well
quick power/ground question: I've got an arduino, which runs off this little 1A 12v brick I've got. I've got a laptop brick that does 4.5A at 16v that I want to use to power a stepper motor
I've got some mosfets to do it with. how can I make a common "ground" between the arduino power and the motor power so that the mosfets trigger?
cradek_ is now known as cradek
morning alex. How is your week going so far?
and I'm upset cause my internet connection is acting up
Got a question about reading an encoder with a parport. What is the max read speed in as percent of max pulse rate out?
For example -- If I can generate 24k pps for steppers, what can I expect to be able to read with the same parport?
rayh: about half of that
rayh: tought you were going to be more often online :)
soulrider_ is now known as soulrider
[Global Notice] Hi all, There will be some slight disturbance as I attempt to kick a desynced server back into the correct dimension, hopefully this will take but a minute. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
hello all...hope all is fine
i have a question for everyone........
I'm sure everyone has an answer for you
i have an answer for everyone
step right up, answers a dime a dozen
I have everyone's answre
in emc2...which config do you like to use....mini,axis,tkmec...so on ?
I like the looks and functionality of AXIS
* archivist uses axis
the backplot in the others is pretty horrendous in comparison
among other things
i tried axis,,,but i don't like that i have to open another config to edit a file
what do you mean config?
i like mini...i can right click to go to anything i like
and what do you mean by "edit a file"
you can set the $EDITOR variable .. somehow .. dont ask me why this isnt set by default
edit a gcode when i fine a mistake
oh - does mini allow you to edit in place?
ok. that's cool
axis will run an external editor of your choise, and has a single-click "reload" function
you can't edit when running....
I think it also notices if you changed the file and asks you if you want to reload
don't know where that is in axis
yep. file -> edit
but I think you need either an environment variable or [DISPLAY]EDITOR in the ini file to point to the editor you want to use
i see i can edit the rool table...not the file itself
sorry -I get carried away
now ya'll talking about editing the program itself...having enough trouble learning emc :)
not the program, the configuration file
which one ?
that's why I asked you what you meant by "config" - those user interface programs can be used in any config. a config is a set of user interface and machine parameters
whichever one you're using
i call mini and them config...didn't know what to callem
you can have as many configs as yourt disk will hold. each can specify a display progbram to use, and what the machine actually is (lathe, mill, 5-axis, hexapod ...)
those are user interfaces or display programs
i heard about those :)
so when you run emc and it asks you which config you want, that's what I'm talking about when I say config :)
i usually use mini, but trying the others
I like the way axis makes me feel
but i like the look of axis
axis tries to be smart about the controls it shows you, so sometimes a feature isn't obvious unless you have done something in the configuration
and in mini...to have to go look in the folders to edit the tool file
for example, you won't see spindle controls unless the spindle signals are hooked up in HAL
ok....i seen HAL but don't want to miss with something i have no idea about
if you actually want to run a machine, you'll have to mess with it at some level
(hopefully just by creating a config using stepconf)
i know....getting machine tomorrow
well, start reading :)
said o was trying
later and thanks
or run or something
hmm - lets see if ubuntu still boots on this thing..
[23:30:24] <sweeper> http://www.moanmyip.com/
only 71mb of udats
I looked at classic ladder finally in the simsteppercl or whatever it is.. Pretty cool.