#emc | Logs for 2008-04-12

[00:24:12] <eric_U> anyone know of a good tutorial for Cadence pcb/schematic capture?
[06:20:40] <ds2> Hmmmm
[06:21:15] <ds2> odd mic... 0.650 - 1.000 has an error of +0.0002 but is dead on from 0 - 0.650
[06:21:32] <toastydeath> not bad
[06:21:41] <ds2> really?
[06:21:52] <toastydeath> depends on how much you paid for your mic
[06:21:54] <ds2> I would expect a 1" mic to be dead on from 0-1"
[06:22:01] <ds2> these are cheap imports
[06:22:10] <toastydeath> i'd say .0002 ain't bad
[06:22:18] <ds2> my mechanical import mic seems to be dead on from 0-1"
[06:22:26] <toastydeath> it's damn near impossible to get a good reading on a part to .0002 anyway
[06:22:35] <toastydeath> gage blocks are relatively easy to measure
[06:22:40] <toastydeath> lapped flat sufraces, parallel
[06:22:43] <ds2> I see.
[06:23:13] <ds2> round stuff like outside dia on a lathe is prett straightforward to measure
[06:23:32] <toastydeath> but then you have to worry about the parallelism and flatness of the mic anvils
[06:23:41] <toastydeath> whereas that's less of an issue on a gage block/square surface.
[06:24:09] <toastydeath> the measurement can change .0002" pretty easy on a lot of mics because of worn spots on the anvil faces
[06:24:23] <toastydeath> and you'll never see it checking on blocks because the blocks only check the highest spots
[06:24:34] <ds2> didn't know a gage block is suppose to be parallel as part of the spec; just expected it to have an envelope of the stated size
[06:24:53] <toastydeath> yeah, gage blocks need to be pretty darn parallel
[06:25:12] <toastydeath> except the parallelism error isn't called out in the cert, it's just wrapped up with all the errors to give you the overall +/-
[06:25:35] <ds2> Interesting... wish that metrology class I took discussed stuff like this instead of GD&T symbols
[06:25:41] <ds2> ah I see
[06:25:55] <ds2> so in some ways, gage pins are a little better?
[06:26:00] <toastydeath> nah
[06:26:13] <toastydeath> well for a mic in production, yes
[06:26:33] <toastydeath> but remember that gage blocks, even B grade, are like 50 millionths
[06:26:36] <toastydeath> total error
[06:26:41] <ds2> but the contact area is limited to the tangent to a cylinder, less change for error
[06:26:42] <toastydeath> pins are usually +.0002"
[06:26:49] <ds2> Oh
[06:26:51] <toastydeath> or minus, whatever your set is
[06:27:15] <ds2> mine is +/- 0.0002 as it is built from different sets at the used tool dealer
[06:27:28] <toastydeath> i'd use blocks
[06:27:34] <toastydeath> that's a class ZZ pin
[06:27:43] <toastydeath> class X pins are 40 millionths and can be used for general shop work
[06:28:17] <ds2> I am using blocks; the issue is the "mixed pins" is US made quality, alas mixed, but the blocks are cheap class B import
[06:28:17] <toastydeath> i mean really, .0002" isn't going to make or break most stuff
[06:28:37] <ds2> the goal of this exercise is to see if I was ripped off
[06:28:38] <toastydeath> class B is class B; 50 millionths
[06:28:45] <toastydeath> pins are +.0002
[06:28:51] <toastydeath> so .0002 versus .00005
[06:29:10] <toastydeath> for calibration purposes, i'm gonna take the blocks, even cheapies, over pins
[06:29:19] <toastydeath> again, unless they're class X pins
[06:29:30] <ds2> does class X pin == deltronics pins?
[06:29:33] <toastydeath> yep
[06:29:40] <ds2> OH
[06:29:51] <toastydeath> if i am recalling correctly, anyway
[06:30:17] <ds2> i just remember the JC had a pile (literally) of donated deltronic pins in the backroom
[06:30:33] <toastydeath> if they look like they're in good shape, that's a pretty good reference
[06:30:49] <toastydeath> remember to close your eyes when you take calibration measurements.
[06:31:10] <toastydeath> check the pin at different spots around the length and diameter, and swap the position 90 degrees on the mic
[06:31:22] <toastydeath> so you get some confidence that you're reading right and not some error on the pin or anvil face
[06:32:00] <ds2> Hmm. one day... I just like them for doing quick checks of boring jobs
[06:32:10] <toastydeath> that works man
[06:32:19] <toastydeath> i wouldn't sweat .0002 for 98% of the stuff i do
[06:32:37] <ds2> 'k
[06:32:44] <toastydeath> but i paid 600 for my 0-4 set, so i might be a little peeved if mine didn't read like they do
[06:32:53] <toastydeath> but for an inexpensive mic, i'd be way happy.
[06:33:04] <ds2> hehe
[06:33:18] <ds2> how often do you use the 4" mic?
[06:33:40] <toastydeath> depends
[06:33:50] <toastydeath> if i'm working on our 15" CNC
[06:33:54] <toastydeath> (lathe)
[06:33:56] <toastydeath> a whole lot
[06:34:21] <toastydeath> otherwise, not too much
[06:34:23] <ds2> hmmm guess the real world makes bigger parts then me
[06:34:41] <toastydeath> i guess, big mics tend to be lathe equipment
[06:34:55] <ds2> wait, is that a 15" american or 15" european?
[06:34:59] <toastydeath> american
[06:35:07] <toastydeath> the chuck is 15" in diameter
[06:35:14] <toastydeath> 15x50"
[06:35:23] <toastydeath> i think it's a 40 hp mori seiki
[06:35:26] <ds2> okie
[06:35:30] <toastydeath> could be 30, dunno
[06:35:32] <toastydeath> never checked the manual
[06:36:07] <ds2> I can find uses for the 50" part, just can't think of much to do with a 15" swing
[06:36:22] <toastydeath> we make spindles and other midsize bearings on it
[06:36:31] <toastydeath> it's a really, really nice machine
[06:36:34] <ds2> for stuff that big, I'd think you can do it on the mill instead
[06:36:41] <toastydeath> the mill isn't as accurate
[06:36:47] <toastydeath> or as powerful
[06:36:48] <ds2> don't doubt it is a nice machine
[06:36:59] <ds2> I see.
[06:37:11] <toastydeath> plus it spins pretty darn quick, i think the top spindle speed is 3000 rpm
[06:37:28] <ds2> 3000rpm @ 15"? :)
[06:37:30] <toastydeath> yep
[06:37:37] <toastydeath> it's pretty frightening
[06:37:50] <ds2> I worry about a 6" chuck at 2000RPM!
[06:37:52] <toastydeath> lol
[06:38:01] <toastydeath> the chuck looks like a rainbow
[06:38:04] <toastydeath> when it spins that fast
[06:38:06] <toastydeath> it's pretty neat
[06:38:08] <ds2> my preferred workholding is a collet
[06:38:22] <toastydeath> but that machine will repeat under .0001"
[06:38:30] <toastydeath> all day long no matter how hard you are using it
[06:38:35] <toastydeath> the only drift it has is tool wear
[06:38:46] <ds2> doesn't the warm up cause some drift?
[06:38:48] <toastydeath> and in aluminum, it's about .001" in 6 hours
[06:38:54] <toastydeath> nope, the machine has an oil chiller
[06:39:10] <toastydeath> all the other machines shift as they warm up
[06:39:16] <ds2> full flood?
[06:39:17] <toastydeath> the mori stays dead on
[06:39:21] <toastydeath> yep, that too
[06:39:57] <toastydeath> we have one machine that drifts really bad, it will go .0002 per part for a couple hours
[06:40:26] <ds2> heh... that's about 10x more accurate then the import stuff I use
[06:40:36] <toastydeath> so what's a babysitting nightmare on that machine is an unattended dream on the 15" lathe
[06:40:51] <toastydeath> lol
[06:41:11] <toastydeath> cnc or manual?
[06:41:40] <ds2> manual for now; trying to rebuild a CNC trainer lathe
[06:42:08] <toastydeath> nice
[06:42:38] <toastydeath> i don't really see the need for that kind of accuracy
[06:42:40] <toastydeath> for most jobs
[06:42:44] <ds2> looks like I will have to make some shims to adjust the preload on one of the axis
[06:42:45] <toastydeath> but it's really nice to have when you need it
[06:43:01] <toastydeath> oh?
[06:43:09] <toastydeath> the ball preload or does it have a preloaded shaft
[06:43:18] <ds2> machines is one thing; measurement equipment needs more accuracy
[06:43:32] <ds2> the Xaxis had like 0.010 of lash on it so I disasseble and cleaned it
[06:43:41] <toastydeath> oh
[06:43:48] <ds2> now when I reassembled it, I can't turn the 1/4" ball scree by hand
[06:43:55] <ds2> need to put on the 1" pully before i can turn it
[06:44:03] <toastydeath> uh oh
[06:44:06] <ds2> so I think there is too much preload on the roller thrust bearings on the axis
[06:44:07] <toastydeath> that's really not good
[06:44:21] <ds2> problem there is a lock nut done with a star washer
[06:44:33] <ds2> sothere are only discrete positions it can lock things
[06:44:58] <toastydeath> heh, i hope it works out
[06:45:00] <toastydeath> what kind of lathe is it
[06:45:13] <ds2> Denford Orac
[06:45:37] <toastydeath> looking it up
[06:45:46] <ds2> the guy who sold me it builds machines and he suggested making up a shim to adjust the preload
[06:45:46] <toastydeath> oh that's cute!
[06:45:51] <toastydeath> cool machine
[06:46:14] <toastydeath> that's like the perfect desktop lathe
[06:46:20] <ds2> goingto gut the 80's electronics and refit it for EMC
[06:46:26] <ds2> heh... it is a bitbigger then desktop
[06:46:49] <ds2> the chinese 7x's are tabletop, this one is about 4 times bigger
[06:47:01] <toastydeath> hot
[06:47:14] <toastydeath> i found the mori we have, an SL-35
[06:47:16] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/Mori-Seiki-SL-35-MC-CNC-Lathe-Machine-Turning-Center_W0QQitemZ140223645798QQihZ004QQcategoryZ97230QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[06:47:20] <ds2> it is about 300lbs
[06:47:46] <toastydeath> i am going to have to keep the orac in mind
[06:48:05] <toastydeath> i have not been too impressed with the look of the build quality of the average import machine
[06:48:17] <ds2> Hmmm that look and sounds just like the Haas lathes
[06:48:38] <toastydeath> heh, in appearance only =)
[06:48:52] <ds2> even the model number!
[06:49:05] <toastydeath> mori is 5x more expensive
[06:49:12] <ds2> yikes
[06:49:24] <ds2> slant bed and tool turret?
[06:49:32] <toastydeath> indeed
[06:49:49] <toastydeath> the main difference is the same as manual machines
[06:49:52] <ds2> just like the haas
[06:49:53] <toastydeath> build quality, accuracy, etc
[06:50:11] <ds2> fanuc based control?
[06:50:18] <toastydeath> yep
[06:51:05] <toastydeath> i was wrong, apparently it's a 2500 rpm spindle
[06:51:09] <toastydeath> but it is 40 hp
[06:51:35] <ds2> 440V 3PH?
[06:51:39] <toastydeath> yep
[06:51:51] <toastydeath> i think it's dual voltage though.
[06:52:08] <ds2> I see.
[06:52:11] <toastydeath> but nobody runsa 40 hp motor at anything less that 440
[06:52:18] <ds2> does it offer collet options?
[06:52:20] <toastydeath> otherwise you'd need giant cables
[06:52:23] <toastydeath> sure it does
[06:52:31] <ds2> giant is an understatement
[06:52:33] <toastydeath> take the chuck off and put a hydaulic collet nose on it
[06:52:58] <toastydeath> all cnc machines have drawbars so collets are not an issue
[06:53:07] <toastydeath> well, the big ones do
[06:53:30] <ds2> very nice
[06:53:44] <toastydeath> practically nobody uses the SL-size machines for small work though
[06:53:54] <ds2> the haas at the JC for the longest time only had a 3J which made it very annoying for multioperations
[06:53:59] <toastydeath> when you step down to a smaller machine the spindle speed bumps to 6000-8000
[06:54:09] <toastydeath> making it a little more useful for collet work
[06:54:30] <ds2> it isn't the size... a 16C gives a similar range to the chuck that came with the Haas
[06:54:36] <toastydeath> i've never even seen a 3j
[06:54:52] <ds2> 3J as in 3 Jaw
[06:54:56] <toastydeath> oh
[06:55:07] <toastydeath> don't like soft jaws?
[06:55:41] <ds2> nope plus it was the school's lathe...can't do muchwith soft jaws when there is only one set
[06:55:50] <toastydeath> oh
[06:55:55] <toastydeath> that's a bummer
[06:56:12] <toastydeath> hell, it's a school! make a few sets.
[06:56:22] <ds2> they got a 5C setup the last quarter I was there
[06:56:24] <toastydeath> no cnc should be without a robust selection of soft jaws =)
[06:56:51] <toastydeath> are they big on cnc stuff there?
[06:57:10] <ds2> sort of
[06:57:21] <ds2> all haas equipment (donations I think)
[06:58:28] <toastydeath> still
[06:58:37] <toastydeath> our school has haas, but they're more for show than for use
[06:58:57] <ds2> it definitely gets used
[06:59:01] <toastydeath> and there's only 3 people in the department who use the machine
[06:59:10] <toastydeath> general students are not allowed on them
[06:59:14] <ds2> they got 2 handg-code classes using it + 2 master cam classses
[06:59:15] <toastydeath> machine(s)
[06:59:27] <toastydeath> yeah, that's cool
[06:59:31] <ds2> that sucks
[06:59:44] <toastydeath> it's the department head, myself, and this lab assistant guy who crashes it all the time
[06:59:57] <toastydeath> (the mill)
[06:59:59] <ds2> sure there will be crashes by students but that's how they learn
[07:00:02] <toastydeath> the lathe almost never gets used
[07:00:23] <toastydeath> the students do a little engraving on it, once a semester
[07:00:32] <toastydeath> but there's hardly any crashes
[07:00:33] <ds2> instructor seems pretty tolerant of crashes. he only get irritated if you crash the same way 4-5 times in a row
[07:00:40] <toastydeath> 98% of the crashes are the TA doing something retarded
[07:00:44] <ds2> engraving is easy to crash
[07:00:58] <ds2> and the tooling is fragile for engraving
[07:01:13] <toastydeath> by "engraving" i mean .050" deep with a 1/8th ball endmill
[07:01:29] <toastydeath> not actual engraving
[07:01:32] <ds2> 1/8 bits are fragile!
[07:01:46] <toastydeath> and yet nobody crashes them!
[07:01:48] <ds2> we use the 60deg V bits for engraving
[07:01:50] <toastydeath> they backplot it on the pc
[07:01:56] <toastydeath> then backplot it on the hass
[07:01:57] <toastydeath> *haas
[07:02:00] <toastydeath> dry run above the part
[07:02:00] <ds2> wow... what's the setup method for Z?
[07:02:11] <toastydeath> what do you mean?
[07:02:18] <toastydeath> touch the tool off to the part and go?
[07:02:28] <ds2> how do they teach setting the Z zero
[07:02:31] <toastydeath> paper
[07:02:39] <toastydeath> the students don't do it
[07:02:44] <ds2> OHhhhh heheh
[07:02:51] <toastydeath> the machine zeroes are set by someone else
[07:03:07] <ds2> setting the zero can be dangerous when people are jogging at the 0.1 setting :)
[07:03:17] <toastydeath> hah yes it can
[07:03:28] <toastydeath> they actually blocked .1" out on the parameter setup
[07:03:35] <ds2> (and yes, that has happened)
[07:03:47] <ds2> even the 0.01 can put a pretty big divot
[07:03:56] <toastydeath> yeah, but it's not as bad ad .1
[07:04:03] <toastydeath> and again the crashes come from the TA
[07:04:14] <toastydeath> this guy, he's trying to make some T nuts
[07:04:19] <toastydeath> you know, for strap clamp kits?
[07:04:29] <toastydeath> stupid simple.
[07:04:30] <ds2> we also have a problem of the day instructor using a 1-2-3 block for setup and setting Z=-1 in the G54
[07:04:34] <toastydeath> the dude crashes the machine SIX times
[07:04:38] <ds2> hahah
[07:04:41] <toastydeath> breaks FOUR tools
[07:04:46] <ds2> impressive
[07:04:46] <toastydeath> there were only two tools being used!
[07:04:50] <toastydeath> he broke a tool THREE times
[07:04:59] <toastydeath> on a part 1" long by .75" wide.
[07:05:37] <toastydeath> i just leave the room now
[07:05:40] <toastydeath> i can't handle it.
[07:05:42] <ds2> don't see how someone can do that in a non production enviroment (where people are in a hurry)
[07:05:44] <toastydeath> mentally, i can't handle it.
[07:05:53] <toastydeath> he isn't in a hurry!
[07:05:58] <toastydeath> he's just... not very good at machining.
[07:06:11] <toastydeath> he's slow as molasses
[07:06:26] <toastydeath> he has almost no experience on the manual machines
[07:06:29] <ds2> at least at the JC, there is the excuse of the night instructor teaching people to set zero with a dowel pin and adjusting the tool length offset and telling people to keep G54 Z=0
[07:06:56] <toastydeath> lol
[07:07:17] <ds2> isn't it general practice to run the code at Rapid = 25% along with the first move being to Z=1.0 for a sanity check?
[07:07:29] <toastydeath> i run it at rapid = feed, or rapid = 5%
[07:07:35] <toastydeath> and yes
[07:07:40] <toastydeath> Z1.0
[07:07:42] <toastydeath> z.1
[07:07:44] <toastydeath> in that order
[07:07:47] <ds2> yep
[07:08:00] <toastydeath> "does that look like an inch? yep. Does that look like .1? Yep."
[07:08:00] <ds2> if the 1.0 doesn't look like a 1.0, FEED HOLD ASAP
[07:08:21] <toastydeath> single block it looking at the dist to go
[07:08:33] <toastydeath> i always hit feed hold anyway
[07:08:45] <toastydeath> and compare where i think it is compared to 1.0 versus what the dist to go tells me is 1.0
[07:08:51] <ds2> i single block but the instructor just uses a slow rapid
[07:08:59] <toastydeath> there's no reason not to single block
[07:09:23] <toastydeath> just keep hitting start as fast as you can until you get to the part where you want to check
[07:09:27] <ds2> takes time plus he's been doing it for like 20 years
[07:09:33] <toastydeath> oh, then sure
[07:09:49] <toastydeath> it also depends on how critical the crap is, i guess
[07:09:57] <ds2> hehe
[07:09:58] <toastydeath> our parts tend to be costly and time intensive, so we take more precautions
[07:10:03] <toastydeath> (at work)
[07:10:14] <ds2> makes sense
[07:10:32] <ds2> with the price of brass or Ti...
[07:10:43] <toastydeath> lol, even aluminum and steel
[07:10:46] <toastydeath> in large blocks
[07:11:13] <toastydeath> once you start to put serious man hours into a part, the cost of the metal suddenly goes up =)
[07:11:24] <ds2> Oh yeah
[07:11:31] <toastydeath> we had a set of 56" air bearing rails we were making, two of them
[07:11:49] <toastydeath> three weeks into machining just those two parts, everyone was walking on eggshells around them
[07:11:54] <ds2> the irritating thingis tapping is almost always at the END :(
[07:12:02] <toastydeath> bahah yes it is
[07:12:07] <toastydeath> get a tap burner =)
[07:12:28] <ds2> thread forming is my preference
[07:12:52] <toastydeath> thread forming as in form taps?
[07:12:58] <toastydeath> or thread forming as in thread milling
[07:13:00] <ds2> yeah
[07:13:29] <toastydeath> not all our machines have rigid tapping
[07:13:33] <ds2> forming taps...donno how one wouldmill stuff like 1/4-20 or 10-32
[07:13:45] <toastydeath> and we quickly discovered they don't work so well in floating holders
[07:14:20] <toastydeath> great taps when you can use them though, from my very limited experience
[07:14:41] <ds2> heh
[07:15:09] <toastydeath> i am going to bed sir
[07:15:11] <toastydeath> goodnight
[07:15:14] <ds2> night
[07:38:02] <K`zan> Night folks.
[11:10:08] <alex_joni> good morning all
[11:13:16] <dimas> good morning
[11:58:02] <OoBIGeye> good morning
[11:58:05] <alex_joni> what's up?
[11:58:43] <OoBIGeye> just trying to get a hold of Vq^
[11:58:48] <OoBIGeye> u?
[11:59:02] <alex_joni> not me ;)
[11:59:49] <OoBIGeye> :)
[12:42:14] <BigJohnT> will a G4 (dwell) take a number smaller than 1 ie 0.1 seconds,
[12:46:40] <OoBIGeye> BigJohnT: depens on the system what base they are using...
[12:47:11] <OoBIGeye> in fanuc you have g4 p100 for a 1 second pause...
[12:47:53] <BigJohnT> OoBIGeye: it seems to take 0.9 in EMC without complaints
[12:48:17] <OoBIGeye> okay that might come in handy :)
[12:49:30] <BigJohnT> yes, for peirce delay I need tenth of a second
[12:51:42] <OoBIGeye> plasma?
[12:51:54] <BigJohnT> yes
[12:55:28] <BigJohnT> hmmm, it seems like there is some blending going on in the corners, wonder where that setting is?
[13:00:39] <OoBIGeye> g61
[13:00:58] <OoBIGeye> i think...
[13:01:33] <BigJohnT> looking
[13:02:45] <BigJohnT> yep it looks like I have a G64 set by default
[13:03:04] <BigJohnT> I was looking in the ini file LOL
[13:05:45] <BigJohnT> It doesn't say what the P number does exactly for G64... just says optional tolerance...
[13:13:03] <BigJohnT> either Axis is drawing the path wrong or G61 is broken, I only get and exact path with G64 P0.00001
[13:14:12] <micges> hello
[13:14:17] <BigJohnT> hi
[13:15:22] <gnix_oag> hi
[13:17:00] <BigJohnT> I take that back, I only get an exact path when I put a G4 P0.0001 at the end of each move
[13:18:17] <BigJohnT> G64 P0.00001 gives random paths at the corner when run multiple times
[13:21:03] <jepler> BigJohnT: to draw the backplot, axis only samples the path approximately 50 times per second. there's no guarantee that one of the samples will be exactly at the corner point, even in G61 mode. When it's not, it looks like the path deviated from the exact path.
[13:21:07] <jepler> it's one of those unavoidable things
[13:21:51] <BigJohnT> ok, that makes sense
[13:22:11] <jepler> and it's a problem that grows worse when you've got something complex loaded and axis is bogged down when zooming or rotating...
[13:22:35] <BigJohnT> or going 400IPM
[13:22:39] <jepler> yep
[13:22:47] <BigJohnT> got it, thanks
[13:23:13] <BigJohnT> so what does the P number mean in G64?
[13:24:20] <jepler> G61 visits the programmed point exactly, even though that means temporarily coming to a complete stop. G64 without P means to keep the best speed possible, no matter how far away from the programmed point you end up. G64 P- means that it should slow down as required to get no more than P- away from the programmed endpoint.
[13:25:31] <jepler> In addition, when you activate G64 P- it turns on the "naive cam detector"; when there are a bunch of G1 moves that are less than P- away from being colinear, they are collapsed into a single linear move. this improves contouring performance.
[13:25:32] <BigJohnT> P is user units, in my case P0.001 is 0.001" from the path?
[13:26:18] <jepler> if G20 is in effect when you program G64 P-, then the P-number is in inches.
[13:26:34] <BigJohnT> ok, thanks
[13:26:57] <BigJohnT> wish I could add that line to the help file...
[13:27:59] <BigJohnT> actually wish I could add all of what you just said to the help file
[13:29:23] <jepler> seems like most of what I said is in the docs .. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sub:Path-Control-Mode http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G61,-G61.1,-G64:
[13:31:18] <BigJohnT> but it does not explain it as well as you did... I read line 3.15 and the link about 10 times but didn't have the deep understanding of what was going on till you explained it so well
[13:34:21] <BigJohnT> in addition the "native cam detector" is some information that one would want to know when using G64 Pn
[13:35:08] <BigJohnT> jepler: thanks again for the help
[13:35:36] <jepler> yeah I guess that's missing altogether
[13:37:11] <BigJohnT> bbl, breakfast calls
[13:37:15] <jepler> see you
[13:37:19] <jepler> glad I could help for once
[13:37:49] <tomp> http://smay.okstate.edu/process.wmv interesting, 3D printing with copper and even ceramic, seen on CadCamDroEDM list
[13:38:49] <tomp> kohinor pens? syringes?
[13:39:18] <tomp> reprap extreme
[13:39:48] <micges> jepler: did you read my post on emc-devel about start/stop ?
[13:43:34] <jepler> micges: I don't disagree with what you wrote, but there is a lot of code required to make it work as easily as you describe. I don't personally need it for the way I use emc, so I'm unlikely to write the code.
[13:45:28] <micges> ok
[13:48:15] <tomp> jepler: dunno if you got the IM, so thx for the help on the vncrec, it works fine. will add soem howto the wiki. thx again, its cool :)
[14:06:25] <sweeper> hmm
[14:06:52] <sweeper> I think I shall only use drawer slides for the x axis of my mill
[14:06:57] <sweeper> well, router
[14:07:18] <sweeper> I am finding that printer rods will make a very nice y and z axis
[14:09:56] <BigJohnT> is the only difference between G61 and G61.1 is the latter comes to a complete stop after every move and G61 only stops if it has to?
[14:12:29] <cradek> I think G61 and G61.1 do the same thing
[14:12:44] <cradek> if you want the latter behavior, use G64 P[small]
[14:13:54] <BigJohnT> cradek just trying to understand the difference... seems to me that G61 would only stop if needed...
[14:17:15] <cradek> the docs may be wrong. I am pretty sure G61/G61.1 are currently the same and cause a stop at every segment.
[14:17:39] <BigJohnT> ok, thanks
[14:21:51] <jepler> tomp: you're welcome
[14:29:16] <BigJohnT> cradek: I can see a difference in Vel: at the end of a move between G61/61.1 if the angle is shallow between the moves
[14:30:02] <BigJohnT> but that might be an Axis thing too dunno
[14:36:23] <BigJohnT> gotta get some work done bbl
[18:34:10] <jmkasunich> I thought (but could be totally wrong) that G61 was exact stop, and G61.1 was exact path
[18:34:25] <jmkasunich> for lines meeting at an angle, there is no difference
[18:34:59] <jmkasunich> but for a line meeting an arc such that they are parallel where they meet, exact path doesn't need to stop, but exact stop does
[18:35:37] <jmkasunich> same applies for parallel lines, or for one arc meeting another such that they are parallel where they meed'
[18:35:40] <jmkasunich> meet
[18:37:23] <awallin_emc> that's how I imagine it works too
[18:38:13] <jmkasunich> there has got to be a better way to measure holes than a telescoping gage
[18:38:52] <jmkasunich> I'm trying to make a shrink fit
[18:39:00] <awallin_emc> anyone know what unix command 'nsd' is?
[18:39:36] <jmkasunich> google says maybe :name server daemon" ?
[18:40:21] <jmkasunich> it would be nice if I could type
[18:55:20] <toastydeath> measuring holes?
[18:55:28] <toastydeath> tri mics, bore mics, and bore gauges
[18:55:46] <toastydeath> you can get an import bore gauge for like 100
[18:56:02] <toastydeath> if you have a set of gage blocks, that's all you really need
[18:58:15] <toastydeath> and i guess a gage block accessory kit
[18:58:41] <toastydeath> .0001" resolution
[19:08:28] <tomp> how to use gage block on hole?
[19:08:53] <renesis> http://darkertechnologies.com/image/ACMotorControl_Milled.jpg
[19:09:01] <renesis> broken conical, w00t
[19:11:07] <renesis> http://www.2linc.com/engraving_tools_pyramid.htm
[19:11:18] <renesis> you guys ever use a tool like that?
[19:11:45] <renesis> im hoping its tougher than the single flute conical, same kinda finish
[19:12:07] <renesis> should get here monday or something
[19:13:27] <renesis> tomp: they make cylinder gages
[19:13:53] <tomp> right, but square peg round hole got me stumped
[19:13:53] <renesis> just get some china shit, prob good for .001 or so
[19:14:06] <toastydeath> tomp: you use the blocks to set the bore gauge
[19:14:16] <toastydeath> can't use a bore gage without either ring gages or gage blocks
[19:14:16] <tomp> that makes sense
[19:14:37] <toastydeath> http://www.redhillsupply.com/CEN6467.htm
[19:14:42] <toastydeath> that's an expensive one.
[19:15:01] <renesis> omg $580 on sale =(
[19:15:08] <toastydeath> msc does sell them for like $95
[19:31:36] <Jessica484> Hi folks. This one is off topic, but does anyone in here know anything about electron microscopes?
[19:32:21] <jmkasunich> renesis, toastydeath: cheap chinese accurate to 0.001 isn't good enough - I can do that (with care) using telescoping gages
[19:32:50] <renesis> maybe you need some .0005 shit from the former soviet union
[19:32:52] <jmkasunich> I'm trying for a couple tenths accuracy - target is 0.0010 to 0.0015 interference for this fit
[19:33:06] <jmkasunich> on a 3/4" bore
[19:33:52] <renesis> sounds like fun challenging work
[19:33:58] <jmkasunich> I just got them together now - the first attempt ended in a stick when the shaft started to heat up before it was all the way in
[19:34:18] <jmkasunich> start one panicked search for something that I could use to push it back out
[19:35:41] <jmkasunich> I must have looked like the keystone cops - I was heating them in the kitchen, then running out to the arbor press in the garage, then the oh-shit run to the basement to get something to use to press it back out, then back out to the garage
[19:38:37] <jmkasunich> I _think_ I was pretty darned close on diameter the first time, and mostly got screwed up by technique when I went to assemble them
[19:38:52] <jmkasunich> set hot part on press anvil, set cold part on hot part, start to press
[19:39:11] <jmkasunich> I think the cold part heated up from the contact in the time it took me to get things aligned and start to push
[19:39:28] <alex_joni> Jessica484: anything particular you're looking for?
[19:39:43] <alex_joni> (regarding electron microscopes)
[19:41:10] <dmess> have you cooled the sleeve??
[19:41:21] <toastydeath> anything i am aware of that does .0001 with any accuracy is a couple hundred bucks
[19:41:33] <Jessica484> Hi Alex, just I think I'm gonna buy that estate sale that includes the SEM. I might end up selling the SEM to pay for the rest of the lot, and I'm trying to figure out what it's worth.
[19:41:40] <jmkasunich> dmess: cooled the sleeve? I heated the sleeve, to make it fit over the shaft
[19:41:57] <dmess> oh ok.. did you cool the shaft???
[19:42:07] <jmkasunich> yes, freezer, about 0F
[19:42:13] <jmkasunich> heated sleeve in oven, 500F
[19:42:32] <dmess> try a propane bottle if you dont have liquid nitrogen
[19:42:50] <jmkasunich> I calculated that would give me 0.0025 of expansion, so I was aiming for 0.0015 of interference when cold, and 0.001 of sliding room when hot
[19:43:36] <dmess> at 3/4 inch i cant see that much expansion over 500 degrees
[19:43:55] <dmess> what mat'l
[19:44:00] <jmkasunich> steel
[19:44:14] <dmess> naw.00025 maybe
[19:44:30] <jmkasunich> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_thermal_expansion
[19:44:43] <jmkasunich> steel = approx 12 ppm per degree C
[19:44:50] <cradek> I have a sneaky feeling that jmkasunich would have done the math
[19:44:53] <toastydeath> 12 ppm per degree per unit
[19:45:11] <dmess> right so time .75
[19:45:59] <jmkasunich> 500F = 277C
[19:46:01] <dmess> actually per linear inch of thickness so it times the wall thickness of the bushing
[19:46:10] <toastydeath> not the thickness
[19:46:18] <jmkasunich> 277C * .000012 * 0.75 = 0.0025
[19:46:19] <toastydeath> the actual diameter, not thickness.
[19:46:24] <dmess> i have spread sheet that does all that for me... now where is it
[19:46:57] <toastydeath> and it's the change in temp, so you have to subtract room temp from the 500
[19:47:06] <toastydeath> not like that changes it by much
[19:47:09] <jmkasunich> thats why I cooled the shaft to 0F ;-)
[19:47:16] <toastydeath> ah
[19:47:20] <toastydeath> good thinkin'
[19:47:34] <jmkasunich> the second time I did it it worked fine
[19:48:01] <jmkasunich> I bet I was pretty close on diameter, and just got stuck because of poor timing and technique putting it together
[19:48:22] <dmess> so you got it stuck... did it take an arc-air tourch to get them apart again... Thats my worst opps its stuck
[19:48:52] <jmkasunich> all I did between the 1st time and the 2nd was chuck it up and use fine emery on a stick to remove the oxide from the ID, then a few more seconds - I couldn't measure the increase in diameter, but surface finished is better
[19:49:24] <jmkasunich> didn't need the torch - it got stuck less than half way on, I flipped it over and pressed it out right away
[19:49:31] <dmess> our target was .08"-.10" interference fit... 18" inches in diameter
[19:49:48] <jmkasunich> lol - now I know why you needed the torch
[19:50:16] <dmess> we stuck about 9 inches int a 16 inch push
[19:50:22] <jmkasunich> ouch
[19:50:53] <dmess> buthered bothe the trunnion and the mating bore on that laddle...
[19:51:41] <jmkasunich> these parts have about 1/2" of overlapped length, but I was pushing over 2" of shaft to get to the shoulder
[19:52:01] <dmess> we boured it out and welded in a 6" thk sleeve thru the laddle and made a new trunnion
[19:52:28] <dmess> working with sleeves is a pain
[19:53:32] <jmkasunich> I was making this: http://www.maritool.com/images/FINAL-C3-4-ER20-2-1.jpg
[19:53:41] <jmkasunich> into this: http://www.tormach.com/picts/product_picts/TTS/ER20.jpg
[19:54:25] <dmess> brb
[19:54:25] <cradek> ahh, I wondered
[19:54:27] <cradek> neat
[19:54:45] <jmkasunich> the mari tool one is $35 cheaper (each), and from looking at the pic on the tormach page, the mari is much nicer quality
[19:54:56] <jepler> fenn: thanks for adding that to the docs
[19:55:05] <DanielFalck> jmkasunich: you can make male plug gages go and no/go to measure the hole
[19:55:20] <jmkasunich> DanielFalck: yeah, but I'm lazy
[19:55:53] <jmkasunich> I hate tooling that takes a long time to make and is only good for one job
[19:56:38] <DanielFalck> you could turn them out of aluminum
[19:57:11] <alex_joni> is there a way to check if ccache is working?
[19:57:24] <jepler> ccache -s show some stats
[19:58:35] <dmess> i had a show machine a twin gildemiester that made brass collet extensions with ppls names on them
[19:59:05] <jmkasunich> BTW, so far I have nothing but good to say about www.maritool.com - the chucks and collets are nicely made, price was great, shipment was fast
[20:00:37] <cradek> I think there is somewhere on our wiki to put that comment...
[20:00:51] <cradek> I recall a picture of Chips with his thumbs (?) up
[20:00:59] <jmkasunich> good idea
[20:02:44] <cradek> darn, they have nothing that fits my machine.
[20:03:17] <jmkasunich> you need a special variation on 30 taper?
[20:03:32] <cradek> yeah the flange is critical
[20:03:40] <cradek> I don't even see any nmtb30 stuff
[20:03:57] <jmkasunich> just BT30
[20:04:40] <cradek> true but the flange is totally wrong on those I think
[20:04:41] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Suppliers
[20:04:50] <jmkasunich> fenn: yep, editing the page now
[20:58:27] <SkullWorks_PGAB> JMK - I just wished Maritool made an ER20 in an R8 config. As is I intend to tool up my X3 using about 6 of his ER32 R8 units.
[20:59:08] <jmkasunich> not sure why he doesn't do an R8 ER20
[20:59:28] <jmkasunich> maybe he figures bigger taper = bigger tooling
[20:59:45] <jmkasunich> although he has 50 tapers for many different collet sizes
[20:59:53] <SkullWorks_PGAB> demand likely - only mini mill users would have a use for them.
[21:00:22] <DanielFalck> does Maritool make their own tooling in the USA?
[21:00:42] <jmkasunich> based on the prices I can't imagine they are made in the US
[21:01:02] <SkullWorks_PGAB> not sure - but I do intend to ask if making a stubby ER20 is possible.
[21:01:15] <DanielFalck> so no indication of where made on the tooling then?
[21:01:16] <jmkasunich> but whoever makes them laser marks them with MariTool's name and part number
[21:01:40] <jmkasunich> no indication of where
[21:02:27] <jmkasunich> collets are laser marked too - don't have to worry about the marks rubbing off
[21:03:01] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I hate that ( ID makings faded/missing)
[21:03:40] <SkullWorks_PGAB> drives me nutz on all the bizzarre taps I have
[21:07:55] <dmess> mark the tube its in and ALWAYS return it to its tube... i have TONS of taps.. many unreadable ... but tagged or bagged
[21:09:48] <jmkasunich> I'm not so sure the collets are laser marked, they might be printed - hard to tell even under magnification
[21:45:35] <SWPLinux> JymmmEMC, Jymm: you around?
[21:45:56] <alex_joni> it's jymm
[21:46:24] <SWPLinux> jymm Jymm - what's the difference? :)
[21:46:33] <alex_joni> jymm is idle for 2 days
[21:46:42] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC only for 1 hour + change
[21:47:25] <SWPLinux> JymmmEMC had connection troubles earlier, according to the logs
[21:48:20] <alex_joni> didn't see anything 1 hour ago
[21:49:08] <SWPLinux> oh. I guess that was closer to 12 hours ago
[21:49:30] <fenn> one, twelve, what's the difference?
[21:49:48] <SWPLinux> 11
[21:49:51] <alex_joni> 1, 2, 12.. ssdd
[21:49:51] <fenn> +/- 11
[21:51:08] <fenn> yo alex_joni what's the minimum size of a weld?
[21:51:15] <alex_joni> what kind of weld?
[21:51:20] <fenn> let's say a mig weld
[21:51:23] <alex_joni> define size..
[21:51:35] <fenn> the smallest built-up feature you can reliably make
[21:51:43] <alex_joni> one spot?
[21:51:46] <alex_joni> or a seam?
[21:51:49] <fenn> a spot
[21:52:08] <alex_joni> hmm.. and you're interested in the diameter?
[21:52:11] <alex_joni> or height?
[21:52:18] <SWPLinux> tiny - look at wirebonding to ICs
[21:52:22] <fenn> diameter
[21:52:28] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: that's not mig ;)
[21:52:34] <SWPLinux> heh. true
[21:52:38] <alex_joni> fenn: probably 3-4mm
[21:52:52] <fenn> huh. why did you give that answer?
[21:52:57] <alex_joni> if you want tiny welds, you need to look at microplasma
[21:53:05] <alex_joni> fenn: ?
[21:53:13] <fenn> i have seen laser stuff that's done under a microscope
[21:53:25] <SWPLinux> that's not mig
[21:53:26] <fenn> but specifically i dont understand the limiting factors in mig welds
[21:53:34] <alex_joni> oh, sure.. laser and microplasma and microtig works quite small
[21:53:41] <alex_joni> fenn: wire diameter is one
[21:53:45] <fenn> or tig either..
[21:53:57] <alex_joni> common diameters start at 0.8mm over here
[21:54:21] <alex_joni> and you need about 40-50 Amps to melt it
[21:54:36] <alex_joni> and there's a min time for the arc to ignite, get stable, etc
[21:54:52] <alex_joni> for TIG I'd say it's somehow smaller.. maybe 1-2mm
[21:55:14] <fenn> 1-2mm is "microtig"?
[21:58:14] <fenn> so basically the wire diameter has to be much smaller than the weld pool
[21:58:45] <alex_joni> 1-2 mm is still regular TIG at something like 10-20Amps
[21:59:00] <alex_joni> you can get lower with microtig which uses something like 0.4 .. 2Amps
[21:59:11] <alex_joni> but you need tiny wire to melt
[21:59:49] <fenn> do you think it would be feasible to zig-zag the weld pool to build up a 'tape' such as for a trace in a circuit board?
[22:00:06] <jmkasunich> you'd burn the board substrate
[22:00:14] <fenn> not if it's ceramic
[22:00:28] <jmkasunich> you'd crack the substrate from thermal shock ;-)
[22:00:40] <SWPLinux> ceramics conduct a lot of heat (dunno how significant that is)
[22:00:41] <fenn> uh.. well, i'll claim ignorance on that one
[22:01:04] <jmkasunich> anyway, regardless of the substrate issues, I suspect that surface tension would make it impossible to leave behind a trace
[22:01:27] <jmkasunich> the "pool" would become a ball that follows you around
[22:01:30] <fenn> i've done something like this with plain lead solder, drawing the blob out at just the right temperature
[22:01:56] <tomp> fenn: colloidal deposition with copper http://smay.okstate.edu/ and ceramic too ( reprap taken a leap fwd )
[22:02:06] <jmkasunich> what substrate? it would have to be something that the solder can wet, otherwise its not gonna drag out
[22:02:12] <fenn> tomp: yeah that's what i've been thinking about, thanks for the link
[22:02:34] <fenn> jmkasunich: just in the air, making a bridge
[22:02:47] <dmess> micro tig is .o10"-.02" where ive brought work
[22:02:58] <alex_joni> fenn: what jmkasunich said
[22:03:06] <alex_joni> I think it's easier to look at conductive paint
[22:03:09] <alex_joni> something silver based
[22:03:23] <alex_joni> use that first, then add solder
[22:03:23] <dmess> cermetal
[22:03:55] <alex_joni> fenn: also note that for welding you need conductive materials ;)
[22:04:02] <alex_joni> ceramics doesn't quite count as one
[22:04:11] <tomp> plastic hot air welding
[22:04:13] <alex_joni> conductive as in metals
[22:04:18] <fenn> see, the tape would act like a heatsink and structural support
[22:04:22] <dmess> but the metal does
[22:04:31] <SWPLinux> wouldn't work well with superconductors ;)
[22:04:41] <fenn> if you get the parameters right you should be able to build any shape out of weld wire
[22:04:46] <dmess> its not even real ceramic anyway..LOL
[22:04:48] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: I doubt you'd be welding inside a nitrogen tank
[22:05:00] <SWPLinux> room temperature superconductors, silly! :)
[22:05:08] <alex_joni> give me some :P
[22:05:17] <SWPLinux> (though the cold temp is another problem for welding ;) )
[22:05:17] <alex_joni> fenn: I doubt you can do that
[22:05:19] <tomp> still laffin :)
[22:05:36] <fenn> alex_joni: i cant do that? i've done it
[22:05:41] <dmess> have you tried hho torches??
[22:05:47] <alex_joni> I mean build any shapes..
[22:06:10] <alex_joni> if I'll ask you to build me a honeycomb our of weld wire, I doubt you'll be able to
[22:06:42] <alex_joni> oh, and bending the wire into shape doesn't count :D
[22:06:56] <fenn> hmm.. what if i bend the wire into a honeycomb and then 'extrude' it upwards
[22:07:22] <dmess> give me a hot steel glue gun and im a mad man
[22:08:26] <SWPLinux> hmmm. I wonder if something like this would be useful for EMC2: http://plcemu.sourceforge.net/
[22:08:47] <SWPLinux> (since I'm one of those people who can't figure out how to use the CL editor)
[22:09:03] <tomp> USE_COMEDI 1 ? i'd like that
[22:09:13] <SWPLinux> I'm looking at the text diagrams
[22:09:32] <fenn> you'd prefer an ascii-art interface?
[22:09:33] <dmess> the othe macine can make the compression tool... then the press from hell to whack it.... an awesome furnace to cook this loaf... the a coining die... to really WHACK it to shape and size... SHIP it
[22:09:45] <SWPLinux> fenn: in some ways, yes
[22:10:02] <fenn> SWPLinux: type 'pstree' in a console
[22:10:21] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: ever looked at SFC in classicladder?
[22:10:33] <alex_joni> ladder isn't the only thing classic ladder can do
[22:10:36] <SWPLinux> fenn: like `ps axf', only prettier
[22:10:49] <SWPLinux> alex_joni: true. I haven't looked at the other "languages"
[22:11:00] <SWPLinux> I don't even know ladder well :)
[22:11:00] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Sad thing is my degree was in Welding metallurgy - ( metallurgical properties in heat affected zones ) -and I never really got to use it - worked in different fields ever since college.
[22:11:18] <SWPLinux> heh
[22:11:28] <alex_joni> SkullWorks_PGAB: kinds reverse for me
[22:11:40] <SWPLinux> my near-degree was in electrical engineering. I've only really started using it in the last couple of years
[22:11:44] <alex_joni> got a major in computer science, ended up doing welding stuff ;)
[22:11:52] <SkullWorks_PGAB> now I don't remember much - old age and failure to use that knowledge.
[22:12:02] <SWPLinux> sounds like french to me
[22:12:40] <jmkasunich> done, finally: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/mill-tooling-2012.jpg
[22:12:56] <SWPLinux> ooooh. purdy
[22:13:10] <tomp> looks real nice
[22:13:33] <jmkasunich> as cash allows I'm gonna add a couple more collet chucks
[22:14:00] <tomp> an albrecht & and a jacobs?
[22:14:14] <SWPLinux> jmkasunich: did you get the steppers from ShopTask or somewhere else?
[22:14:17] <jmkasunich> an albrecht clone and a jacobs clone
[22:14:24] <jmkasunich> somewhere else - kelinginc
[22:14:28] <SWPLinux> oh, right
[22:14:49] <SWPLinux> I just went to my old company and helped them set up EMC2 (they couldn't get Mach to work well)
[22:15:00] <tomp> those were done on a shoptask? recoop your cost by offering them that pic as as an advert!
[22:15:03] <SWPLinux> the PacSci steppers on it were sturdier than I thought
[22:15:25] <jmkasunich> tomp: the only thing I did on the shoptask is add the Z collars to the collet chucks
[22:15:36] <SWPLinux> I couldn't get the things to miss a step at 60 IPM, and I was pulling pretty hard
[22:15:52] <SkullWorks_PGAB> HF has 1/2" Jacobs chucks using a 12mm thread for like $9/ea. (key included with each.)
[22:16:10] <SWPLinux> unipolar too, which seemed weird
[22:16:38] <jmkasunich> SWPLinux: that sounds good
[22:16:49] <SWPLinux> yeah, I was surprised
[22:17:22] <SWPLinux> the ME had said before that he could tap it and see the stepper lose position when it was going at high speed
[22:17:54] <jmkasunich> you didn't touch the drives or motors at all?
[22:17:58] <SkullWorks_PGAB> dampers on the stepper motors?
[22:17:58] <SWPLinux> oh hmm. that could be due to EMC actually - better timing = less apparent acceleration and smoother torque
[22:18:01] <SWPLinux> nope
[22:18:04] <SWPLinux> nope to both
[22:18:30] <SWPLinux> I was just thinking through why that could be the case, since no hardware was changed
[22:18:42] <SWPLinux> (except going from the ISA I/O card to a parallel port)
[22:18:52] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Blame Bill
[22:19:00] <SWPLinux> I blame Art ;)
[22:19:18] <SkullWorks_PGAB> ( Art did his best - but GIGO )
[22:19:23] <SWPLinux> or whoever it was that wrote Artisan CNC, which Ah-Ha used to sell
[22:20:14] <tomp> i still have an isa ahha control
[22:20:29] <SWPLinux> I thought about asking them for the card. do you have any specs?
[22:20:38] <SWPLinux> it seems it should be easy to make a simple IO driver for it
[22:21:05] <alex_joni> where would you stick it ?
[22:21:06] <tomp> would need to look, i think i got floppies, card & manual, some programming stuff... will get it to you
[22:21:14] <SWPLinux> ok. no rush ;)
[22:21:17] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I took my OLD (circa 1991) Bobcad V12 for DOS and set it up on my EMC box using DOSBOX - works like a champ!
[22:21:26] <SWPLinux> maybe for Fest, if you go
[22:21:37] <tomp> i got to leaarn dosbox & wine
[22:21:48] <tomp> SWPLinux: hope to
[22:21:56] <SWPLinux> cool
[22:22:04] <SWPLinux> another plane lands at SJC
[22:23:21] <tomp> bbl Paad Kee Mao waiting mmmmmmmm
[22:23:46] <SWPLinux> heh
[22:38:24] <alex_joni> drunken noodles?
[22:38:57] <SWPLinux> yummy. maybe that's what I should have for dinner
[22:39:25] <alex_joni> I'm not sure who would enjoy what I had for dinner :P
[22:39:40] <SWPLinux> did you?
[22:39:59] <SWPLinux> are you back home or still off in Deutschland?
[22:40:43] <alex_joni> oh, back home since thursday
[22:40:47] <alex_joni> I did enjoy it ;)
[22:40:52] <SWPLinux> hmmm. I should go soak in the hot tub
[22:40:56] <SWPLinux> what did you have?
[22:41:08] <alex_joni> brain
[22:41:16] <alex_joni> pig's brain
[22:41:22] <SWPLinux> interesting
[22:41:36] <SWPLinux> not a lot of flavor I imagine (other than the spices)
[22:41:38] <alex_joni> yummy ;)
[22:42:12] <alex_joni> yeah.. breadcrums and the regular stuff like on a schnitzel
[22:42:14] <SWPLinux> I've had sweetbread (calf thymus I believe)
[22:43:46] <alex_joni> hmm.. don't think I tasted that
[22:44:18] <SWPLinux> apparently it's kind of strange to cook - it puffs up a lot, so you actually have to weight it down
[22:52:57] <alex_joni> heh
[23:01:11] <ken> hello
[23:03:45] <SWPLinux> hello
[23:04:14] <alex_joni> hell o
[23:04:16] <SkullWorks_PGAB> responses can be rather random at times, but hello too
[23:04:22] <ken> all working on a sat afternoon ?
[23:04:32] <ken> np been here before
[23:04:33] <SWPLinux> yeah, mostly
[23:04:40] <alex_joni> not everywhere a sat afternoon :)
[23:04:47] <SWPLinux> but I'm thinking about jumping in the hot tub or pool
[23:04:53] <ken> hahahha you got me
[23:05:08] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: you need the new waterproof OLPC
[23:05:09] <ken> sounds good
[23:05:32] <ken> then he wouldn't get out
[23:05:38] <SWPLinux> hmmm. I think I can detach from the internet again today - I did spend 6 hours or so on airplanes after all
[23:08:29] <SWPLinux> I think I will do that actually. see you guys later
[23:18:36] <ken> later
[23:29:56] <ken> in mini...under offset...y doesn't my rad offset work ?
[23:53:48] <gnix_oag> hi