#emc | Logs for 2008-04-11

[00:16:49] <eric_U> too bad there are no Fry's nearby
[00:42:16] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[00:43:50] <K`zan> Hi Folks, long time not here :-).
[00:44:59] <SWPadnos> indeedy
[01:02:29] <K`zan> Still thrashing, but getting closer to making some decisions and have been saving my pennies, so possibilities are close to existing :-).
[01:05:58] <fenn> go rummage around for some dead treadmills
[01:07:55] <fenn> then add mice encoders, h-bridge, square steel tubing full of sand, and skate bearings
[01:08:22] <fenn> (to the treadmill motor that is)
[01:08:43] <fenn> sigh. so many projects
[01:09:34] <dmess> seal up all the sand bro
[01:09:56] <eric_U> dead treadmills are great
[01:10:23] <fenn> big copy machines too
[01:10:31] <fenn> (for smaller motors)
[01:10:41] <dmess> i havent heard... talk to me.. whats inthem thats good
[01:10:56] <fenn> pancake servos, usually with encoders on them
[01:11:22] <fenn> and assorted mechanical junk, if you're into that
[01:12:06] <dmess> i had a 250 lbs lazer printer... OLD QUME jobbie had huge motors... but i didnt know what to do with them
[01:12:14] <fenn> everything's custom injection molded plastic these days, hard to re-purpose
[01:12:48] <SWPadnos> I've got a dozen or so ~120W servos with encoders on them - pancake style probably originally meant for a printer orr something
[01:12:52] <dmess> smash it up and add to RE-grind
[01:13:01] <SWPadnos> I think the encoders even have index
[01:13:05] <fenn> dmess that's the plan
[01:13:43] <klickrr> 120 watts for a printer servo? that sounds like 100 times to much power
[01:13:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:13:54] <fenn> 120 peak
[01:14:05] <SWPadnos> no, I think that's continuous
[01:14:13] <fenn> beefy
[01:14:13] <dmess> but limit regrind to 30-40% total shot..
[01:14:20] <ds2> heavy card stock ready?
[01:14:21] <klickrr> servo or stepper?
[01:14:26] <fenn> dmess why?
[01:14:47] <dmess> its hard on the spru
[01:15:06] <dmess> it NEVER mixes quite RIGHT
[01:15:07] <fenn> dmess what about reprap-style goo squirintting?
[01:15:21] <fenn> squirting*
[01:15:40] <dmess> hot spruu??
[01:15:45] <fenn> free form
[01:15:55] <fenn> cake decorating
[01:16:01] <tomp> :)
[01:16:39] <fenn> you can have your cake, but i wouldnt want to eat it
[01:16:47] <dmess> who cares for that... i was speaking commercial applications
[01:17:26] <fenn> well, dont come crying to me when your economy's in a recession because all mfg have moved to china
[01:17:32] <SWPadnos> ok - 26V, 4.2A, but also says 80W
[01:17:48] <dmess> it already has
[01:18:15] <dmess> but i worked with a cool 3d plotter this week
[01:18:29] <SWPadnos> oh - it says "print motor" on the label. :)
[01:18:37] <SWPadnos> I guess it is for a printer or something ;)
[01:19:10] <dmess> it would be a COOL EMC machine...
[01:19:18] <klickrr> anyone know where to get good power supply's, i need probably 60-72 volts DC, about 5 amps
[01:19:42] <SWPadnos> I haven't bought from them, but I like the looks of antek-inc (on ebay or on the web)
[01:19:58] <dmess> makes 3d models 12" x 13" x 7" deep
[01:20:09] <SWPadnos> http://www.antekinc.com/ps.html
[01:20:23] <klickrr> ahh, yes, i did look at these guys before
[01:21:11] <SWPadnos> like I said, I haven't bought from them, but the products look nice
[01:21:18] <klickrr> yea i do like the looks of those, i've been searching for a while, well obviously i'm trying to find a decent deal, you can find any power supply if you want to spend the money :)
[01:22:04] <klickrr> oh, $90, that's not bad for what i ened
[01:22:21] <SWPadnos> they're a little tougher than some stuff - eBay sellers sell them cheap then charge $100 for shipping
[01:22:25] <klickrr> oh i have to call them, i hate when i can't order online
[01:22:43] <klickrr> i'll get over that though :) eheh, i'll call em tommorow
[01:22:44] <SWPadnos> they do sell on eBay as well, at the same price or thereabouts
[01:22:47] <klickrr> thanks
[01:22:51] <SWPadnos> sure
[01:22:54] <klickrr> oh ok, i'll look there
[01:22:55] <SWPadnos> let me know if they suck ;)
[01:23:14] <fenn> let us know if you die a horrible burning death when it catches on fire and explodes
[01:23:27] <SWPadnos> yeah. I'd like to know about that too
[01:23:41] <klickrr> while i'm dieing i'll be sure to first and foremost send a message to this channel
[01:24:00] <klickrr> i can't guarentee a message if it explodes to quickly though
[01:24:04] <SWPadnos> thank you
[01:24:10] <SWPadnos> best effort is acceptable
[01:24:58] <klickrr> oh perfect, ebay auctions are much better
[01:25:03] <klickrr> can order right there
[01:25:53] <klickrr> lots of good reviews on ebay, ok i'm buying
[01:26:51] <dmess> fish on
[01:29:29] <klickrr> you guys all having fun tonight?
[01:32:50] <eric_U> in ubuntu, does hitting print screen bring up a dialog asking you where to save it?
[01:33:42] <klickrr> yes
[01:33:47] <klickrr> I think that's gnome in general
[01:33:58] <klickrr> cause i'm on gentoo here, and it works, i've never tried it before
[01:34:02] <klickrr> that's kinda nice :)
[01:34:09] <eric_U> that's what I thought, didn't want to go down to the basement to try it
[01:34:21] <eric_U> I like the preview
[01:34:29] <klickrr> yea,
[01:34:43] <eric_U> works here on fedora
[01:35:23] <klickrr> i tested on the ubuntu computer behind me as well, it works
[01:35:49] <eric_U> I thought it was gnome-wide
[01:36:34] <klickrr> alt-printscreen even works how it used to work in windows
[01:36:40] <klickrr> just does the current application
[01:37:29] <fenn> * fenn yearns for the day we all have laser-ferrofluid keyboards
[01:39:40] <eric_U> the current keyboard is pretty good
[01:39:53] <fenn> yes, but it's not reconfigurable
[01:39:54] <eric_U> learning it is a problem
[01:40:09] <fenn> no, learning it is easy
[01:40:19] <eric_U> I'm thinking someone smarter than me is going to invent something different
[01:40:41] <fenn> learning touch-typing is harder
[01:41:29] <eric_U> anyone that doesn't know touch typing, doesn't know the keyboard
[01:41:55] <eric_U> I just opened the box with my new ebay servomotor, it rattled funny
[01:41:57] <fenn> huh. i still have to look when i'm typing all those weird characters in the top row
[01:42:02] <eric_U> turns out it's the mil spec connectors
[01:42:14] <eric_U> you mean 1-9>
[01:42:15] <eric_U> ?
[01:42:19] <klickrr> hahahaHAHA
[01:42:19] <fenn> yeah
[01:42:29] <fenn> i mean, they arent even letters or anything
[01:42:31] <SWPadnos> strange. the housing connectors shouldn'trattle - are there cables included?
[01:42:38] <eric_U> it's the insert
[01:42:43] <SWPadnos> odd
[01:42:45] <eric_U> and pins
[01:42:49] <eric_U> it is a little odd
[01:42:58] <eric_U> contemplating taking it apart
[01:43:15] <SWPadnos> if it's insert pins, well, don't do that ;)
[01:43:36] <SWPadnos> a little "salt shaker" rattle is OK. if it sounds like broken parts, that's a different story
[01:43:53] <eric_U> no, I meant taking the back panel off the encoder housing
[01:44:03] <eric_U> disturbingly, it looks like that's been done before
[01:44:03] <SWPadnos> oh, that
[01:44:12] <SWPadnos> what kind of servos?
[01:44:17] <klickrr> i've never heard of an encoder rattling
[01:44:24] <SWPadnos> only broken ones
[01:44:28] <klickrr> well, right
[01:44:36] <klickrr> luckily i haven't broken mine, so i haven't heard that
[01:44:47] <SWPadnos> but connectors do when they have insert pins and/or screw rings
[01:44:54] <klickrr> well that's true
[01:45:08] <eric_U> now that I look at it, it has been painted
[01:45:14] <SWPadnos> those are usually on the cable end though, which is why it seems weird
[01:45:21] <klickrr> perhaps by the manufacturer :)
[01:45:25] <eric_U> no big deal, it was incredibly cheap for a $2000 motor
[01:45:33] <SWPadnos> <$2000?
[01:45:43] <eric_U> $30 shipped
[01:45:44] <fenn> so, you're a collector of fine motors?
[01:45:48] <eric_U> yes
[01:45:49] <SWPadnos> oh - another Yaskawa?
[01:45:55] <SWPadnos> that is a good deal
[01:46:00] <eric_U> no, it's an electrocraft
[01:46:28] <eric_U> the paint has runs in it, not the manufacturer
[01:46:32] <SWPadnos> what kind of connector does it have? (mine have 16-pin connectors, the middle 2 are thicker)
[01:46:55] <eric_U> 97 series mil-std
[01:47:00] <SWPadnos> Amphenol pattern 24/7
[01:47:12] <SWPadnos> sure, MS3106 or 97-series
[01:47:32] <eric_U> this is 17 pin
[01:47:49] <SWPadnos> hmmm. in a hexagon shape with all the pins the same size?
[01:48:10] <eric_U> the center ones are a pentagon, all pins the same size
[01:48:21] <eric_U> I have the cables for it
[01:48:27] <eric_U> I'm a cable collector
[01:48:39] <SWPadnos> ok
[01:48:45] <SWPadnos> type 20-29
[01:48:49] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:48:59] <eric_U> that sounds right
[01:49:01] <SWPadnos> I spent more on the connectors than I did on my motors
[01:49:06] <eric_U> and 18-4 I think
[01:49:26] <SWPadnos> of course I bought 3 connectors for each motor - one for the controller and 2 for the cable
[01:49:27] <eric_U> yeah, I'm willing to spend 2x as much for a motor with cables
[01:49:35] <SWPadnos> then there are the back-shells and other accessories
[01:49:54] <eric_U> I have some nice motors with the pt series mil-spec connector that I can't find the connector for
[01:49:59] <eric_U> one big pin in the middle
[01:50:13] <klickrr> listening to you guys talk, i'm realizing my servo's are not very complex, it's just a servo motor with a us-digital encoder on it
[01:50:17] <SWPadnos> 20-29 is the only 17-pin arrangement in the catalog I have
[01:50:21] <eric_U> I think I found them once, they cost more than the motors by factor of 2
[01:50:23] <SWPadnos> that's harder
[01:51:09] <eric_U> klickrr: brushless servomotor
[01:51:40] <SWPadnos> 8 around the outsideand one big one in the middle?
[01:51:49] <klickrr> ahh, yea
[01:52:01] <eric_U> no, it's like 25 around the outside and a big one in the middle
[01:52:04] <SWPadnos> oh
[01:52:05] <eric_U> crazy arrangement
[01:52:32] <SWPadnos> are the others all the same size, or are some of the inner ones a bit larger?
[01:52:37] <eric_U> that was when I learned to price the connectors first
[01:52:43] <eric_U> all the same size
[01:52:59] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[01:53:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:53:11] <SWPadnos> yeah, I learned that one slightly after I bought the motors
[01:53:36] <eric_U> the common pt series motor connectors also are quite expensive for some reason
[01:53:50] <SWPadnos> because cheapskates hard-wire? :)
[01:53:53] <eric_U> they chose the reverse sex
[01:54:05] <eric_U> I mean relative to other connectors
[01:54:10] <eric_U> of the same series
[01:54:26] <SWPadnos> oh. I thought PT was a connector series :)
[01:54:41] <eric_U> it is, but look at the prices
[01:54:52] <eric_U> they vary wildly among pt series
[01:55:01] <SWPadnos> I don't look at those prices any more. I have enough connectors
[01:55:15] <eric_U> I have a ton of connectors, all the wrong one
[01:56:06] <eric_U> I should have had one of the electronics techs teach me how to take apart the pt series when I was in the AF
[01:56:53] <eric_U> one of our pilots had a minor brain fart when dropping bombs and ripped up a huge connector, many, many pins
[01:57:07] <SWPadnos> that can be annoying
[01:57:18] <eric_U> our tech took one off another plane and had it flyable by morning
[01:58:45] <eric_U> pilot made a natural mistake, he was a little high over his target, dived and dropped the bombs as soon as the pip was on the target
[01:59:24] <eric_U> he was still going into a steeper dive angle, and hit the bombs, they rolled up his wings and ripped one of the sidewinders off
[01:59:49] <SWPadnos> oops
[01:59:58] <jmkasunich> did they have to remove the seat from his sphincter?
[01:59:59] <eric_U> this is all from visual evidence, I could be wrong. but I'm not :)
[02:00:30] <eric_U> things happen when you're being shot at
[02:01:03] <jmkasunich> gotta paint a label on those things: "drop this way \/"
[02:01:14] <eric_U> same guy was killed in a crash with my bosses' wingman
[02:01:59] <jmkasunich> when was this?
[02:02:21] <eric_U> crash woulda been in '93
[02:02:46] <eric_U> bomb incident was desert storm
[02:03:32] <eric_U> SWPadnos, you got an approximate page in the digikey catalog for mil-std connectors
[02:04:40] <SWPadnos> nope
[02:04:49] <eric_U> I figured it out
[02:07:02] <eric_U> you'd think that digikey coulda done a better job with their catalog
[02:07:18] <SWPadnos> mouser was less expensive for MS connectors when I bought them
[02:07:51] <eric_U> my favorite was allied back when they sold the contacts and the shells separately
[02:08:07] <eric_U> you could get a quantity discount and not break the bank
[02:09:07] <eric_U> I like the 18-16, one pin in the middle of a 7/8" connector
[02:09:39] <SWPadnos> or 16-12
[02:10:11] <eric_U> digikey doesn't show that one
[02:10:27] <SWPadnos> smell connector, big pin
[02:10:49] <SWPadnos> um. small
[02:11:03] <eric_U> probably smells too
[02:11:55] <SWPadnos> cosmoline
[02:14:01] <eric_U> one time I was at pratt&whitney right after congress was investigating all the $600 hammers
[02:14:23] <eric_U> they had these charts about connectors, they said "noble metal plated" when they meant "gold plated"
[02:14:47] <SWPadnos> Gold is the noble metal
[02:14:55] <eric_U> I know, but I thought it was funny
[02:15:05] <SWPadnos> the acid solution that will etch it is called "Aqua Regia" - "king's water"
[02:15:35] <eric_U> the problem they were having was that the gold plating would survive, the stuff underneath would corrode
[02:15:59] <sweeper> then the plating wasn't done properly :P
[02:16:44] <renesis> guy wtf at livecd
[02:16:46] <eric_U> I guess it was too heavy
[02:16:54] <renesis> i touch off, nothing
[02:17:06] <renesis> hit #, coords dont change
[02:17:21] <renesis> ?
[02:18:01] <sweeper> sigh, my cheap usb stick mp3 player died
[02:18:25] <eric_U> my free usb drive died
[02:18:37] <SWPadnos> renesis, what do you expect # to do?
[02:18:40] <sweeper> otoh, it looks like the oled screen has 14 pins
[02:18:44] <SWPadnos> or does that represent a number?
[02:18:56] <sweeper> and the pitch is pretty reasonable :d
[02:18:58] <sweeper> :D
[02:19:32] <eric_U> I tried to give my son a keypad to hook up to his arduino, he said it had too many pins
[02:19:51] <renesis> swpadnos: i dunno, what its supposed to?
[02:19:57] <sweeper> tell him to google charlieplexing!
[02:19:58] <renesis> its not offsetting coordinate systems
[02:20:02] <sweeper> and give him some diodes
[02:20:05] <renesis> haha @ charlieplexing
[02:20:09] <renesis> fun shit
[02:20:28] <renesis> i made a 5x6 array just to try it
[02:20:29] <SWPadnos> renesis, you're asking wtf? - you should know what it is you're doing, and what it is you expect to happen
[02:20:38] <renesis> ...
[02:20:40] <SWPadnos> I can't tell you what "whatever you did" was supposed to do
[02:20:40] <eric_U> sweeper, looks like a good tip, thanks
[02:20:48] <renesis> dude its not working right
[02:20:55] <renesis> i home the axis
[02:21:06] <renesis> soft limits work, so its loading my config file fine
[02:21:12] <renesis> and scale is correct
[02:21:21] <renesis> i go to zero my work coordinate system
[02:21:26] <renesis> i hit touch off
[02:21:32] <renesis> confirm G54 in the dialog
[02:21:37] <sweeper> eric_U: no worries :D
[02:21:37] <renesis> go to the MDI tab
[02:21:41] <renesis> confirm G54 is active
[02:21:46] <renesis> the display doesnt change
[02:22:08] <renesis> when i hit # and it says relative actual, the numbers do not change from machine actual
[02:22:10] <jmkasunich> you hit touch off, and then what do you do? you enter a value in the dialog that pops up, right?
[02:22:11] <renesis> its broken
[02:22:14] <renesis> happy?
[02:22:25] <renesis> i leave it zero or .001
[02:22:42] <renesis> because im using rolling paper to touch off
[02:22:46] <jmkasunich> what was the DRO showing for that axis before you hit touch-off?
[02:22:51] <SWPadnos> what value do you enter in the touch-off dialog?
[02:22:55] <renesis> machine actual
[02:22:59] <renesis> it doesnt change
[02:23:09] <klickrr> hit "Ok" not "Cancel" :)
[02:23:09] <jmkasunich> machine actual isn't a number
[02:23:22] <renesis> actually its 3 numbers
[02:23:31] <renesis> it says the same numbers no matter what
[02:23:59] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems
[02:24:04] <renesis> um
[02:24:05] <jmkasunich> go to the View menu and make sure that Relative is checked
[02:24:15] <renesis> i know how to use it ive machined at least like 100 things this setup
[02:24:30] <renesis> i hit # and it says relative actual in the statusbar
[02:24:35] <renesis> is statusbar broken?
[02:24:40] <jmkasunich> go to the View menu and make sure that Relative is checked
[02:24:41] <sweeper> is it possible to microstep unipolar stepper?
[02:24:44] <sweeper> *steppers
[02:25:06] <SWPadnos> oh - so that's what "#" does :)
[02:25:09] <renesis> jmkasunich: it is
[02:25:14] <renesis> with a # next to it
[02:25:18] <renesis> because thats the quick key
[02:25:23] <jmkasunich> yeah, but I can't imagine any reason for somebody to be switching back and forth all the time
[02:25:32] <renesis> what?
[02:25:41] <renesis> back and forth between what?
[02:25:43] <jmkasunich> when you are displaying relative you still have absolutely no effect when you do a touch-off?
[02:25:48] <jmkasunich> between machine and relative
[02:25:48] <renesis> what does that matter
[02:25:53] <renesis> no affect
[02:25:57] <renesis> i told you what i did
[02:25:58] <SWPadnos> ie, why have a quick key binding for that function
[02:26:04] <renesis> because i use it?
[02:26:09] <jmkasunich> when you are using machine, of course you won't see anything change
[02:26:21] <SWPadnos> that's an aside. we will get nowhere if we keep going on that track
[02:26:21] <renesis> not true
[02:26:28] <renesis> i see it change when i did it 100 times before
[02:26:40] <jmkasunich> did you change the software?
[02:26:45] <renesis> because when its set to machine actual, you set zero, it wont change
[02:26:48] <renesis> so you hit #
[02:26:51] <renesis> and it changes
[02:26:52] <renesis> no change
[02:26:53] <klickrr> I though End was the shortcut to touch off... hmm, that's how I zero things out, or offset the axis...
[02:26:54] <renesis> it sucks
[02:27:04] <renesis> the fialog in touch off is somewhat new
[02:27:05] <jmkasunich> renesis: did you change the software?
[02:27:16] <renesis> is this emc from right after that?
[02:27:19] <renesis> wtf no
[02:27:31] <SWPadnos> um
[02:27:40] <jmkasunich> if you didn't change anything, and it worked before, common sense says you aren't doing the same thing you did 100 times before
[02:27:49] <renesis> its a different system
[02:27:54] <renesis> and the livecd version
[02:27:55] <SWPadnos> if you didn't update EMC, then why is the touch-off dialog different? different from what?
[02:28:01] <renesis> and the workspace dropdown in that dialog is new
[02:28:07] <renesis> and im not sure it completely worked at first
[02:28:12] <SWPadnos> ok, then it is probably not the same software (ie, the same version of EMC2)
[02:28:25] <jmkasunich> what is your fscking problem - I just asked you if you changed anything, you said no, and now you are saying its a differnet system and differnet software
[02:28:25] <renesis> this is the livecd
[02:28:30] <jmkasunich> make up your fscking mind
[02:28:39] <klickrr> hehe
[02:28:40] <renesis> i didnt change the code
[02:28:54] <renesis> i said the livecd already
[02:29:02] <SWPadnos> STOP!!!
[02:29:04] <renesis> just to let you guys know, you guys are being assholes
[02:29:09] <SWPadnos> wrong
[02:29:12] <renesis> yeh
[02:29:12] <jmkasunich> back atcha
[02:29:12] <klickrr> omg
[02:29:16] <renesis> k
[02:29:21] <renesis> so anyway, livecd from the website link
[02:29:28] <jmkasunich> we are trying to help you
[02:29:29] <renesis> my config which has worked a ton before
[02:29:32] <jmkasunich> believe it or not
[02:29:36] <SWPadnos> question:
[02:29:36] <renesis> and everything is jogging around fine
[02:29:48] <renesis> it even runs cycles fine when i test without the steppers without zeroing
[02:29:54] <jmkasunich> do you know what version of EMC you were running before? do you know what version are you running now?
[02:29:56] <SWPadnos> your config worked before, was that with this major revision orf EMC2? (ie, 2.2.x)
[02:29:58] <jmkasunich> and don't say the livecd
[02:29:59] <renesis> yeah but youre assuming im doing it wrong
[02:30:02] <jmkasunich> that is not a version of EMC
[02:30:08] <SWPadnos> we don't know what you're doing, or what is wrong
[02:30:22] <SWPadnos> we're trying to find out, but you keep telling us that you know exactly what's going on, and we don't
[02:30:25] <jmkasunich> we are asking lots of questions to try to get the facts of the situation
[02:30:28] <SWPadnos> well, the reason is that you haven't told us
[02:30:31] <renesis> actually it kinda is if i specify its the livecd linked right now
[02:30:41] <jmkasunich> the livecd is not a version of emc2
[02:30:49] <renesis> omg scemantics
[02:30:51] <klickrr> how do you know the livecd link didn't change today
[02:30:55] <renesis> semantics?
[02:30:56] <SWPadnos> it seems likely that it is 2.2.2, but I don't know for sure
[02:30:57] <renesis> probably
[02:30:58] <klickrr> you didn't download it 5 seconds ago
[02:31:04] <renesis> i got it today
[02:31:07] <jmkasunich> it is a way to get the operating system and kernel
[02:31:15] <jmkasunich> are you running it live, or did you install it?
[02:31:22] <renesis> i installed it
[02:31:33] <jmkasunich> ok, did you update to the latest EMC after installing?
[02:31:38] <renesis> nope
[02:31:45] <SWPadnos> go to help/about, and tell us the version you see there
[02:31:52] <renesis> prob old
[02:31:53] <SWPadnos> it's probably 2.2.2, but we don't know for sure
[02:32:12] <jmkasunich> I doubt the CD has the latest CD - we don't generate a 700MB iso and tell people to do a brand new install of the entire OS every time we update EMC
[02:32:24] <renesis> file machine view, no heko
[02:32:25] <SWPadnos> s/CD(2)/EMC/
[02:32:29] <jmkasunich> right
[02:32:29] <renesis> er, help
[02:32:33] <jmkasunich> I can't type
[02:32:37] <SWPadnos> help is at the right side
[02:32:49] <SWPadnos> help / about AXIS
[02:33:01] <renesis> 2.2.2
[02:33:08] <SWPadnos> ok, thank you
[02:33:22] <jmkasunich> ok - do you know what version your properly working setup has?
[02:33:40] <renesis> where is it located on disk
[02:33:52] <jmkasunich> where is what located? the version number?
[02:33:58] <renesis> yeh
[02:34:14] <jmkasunich> not 100% sure - you can't just start it and check?
[02:34:16] <SWPadnos> good question
[02:34:24] <renesis> no because the working system died
[02:34:34] <renesis> and i have to look on the partition with the old system
[02:34:36] <SWPadnos> there's a VERSION file of some sort, but you'd have to use dpkg to tell you where it gets put
[02:34:55] <SWPadnos> are you looking for your working config, or the version number of EMC?
[02:35:10] <renesis> im using my working config
[02:35:16] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:35:26] <renesis> i need the version number in a file on the disk to answer the question
[02:35:26] <jmkasunich> so, the PC that used to work died, and you copied the config files off of it to a new PC?
[02:35:56] <renesis> i put my stepper_inch.ini over the default one
[02:36:05] <renesis> because thats the only file i changed
[02:36:19] <jmkasunich> when you said "the working system died", what died? a PC, a hard disk? what?
[02:36:31] <renesis> wait i have a coordinates file specified i think do i need to touch that file or something?
[02:36:37] <renesis> the pc
[02:36:52] <SWPadnos> coordinates saves the old coordinates when you exit so they can be restored when you next start
[02:36:53] <jmkasunich> ok, so you copied your config files from the old disk and put them on a new PC?
[02:36:53] <renesis> dead brick, prob the psu, maybe the mobo
[02:36:54] <SWPadnos> I think
[02:37:07] <renesis> yeah so it shouldnt matter, right?
[02:37:12] <renesis> yes
[02:37:28] <renesis> just stepper_inch.ini
[02:37:50] <jmkasunich> when you say "I put my stepper_inch.ini over the default one", what directory is that in?
[02:37:51] <renesis> it runs fine, jogs, runs cycles
[02:38:04] <renesis> only prob im having is work systems
[02:38:11] <jmkasunich> when you say "I put my stepper_inch.ini over the default one", what directory is that in?
[02:38:18] <renesis> emc2/configs/stepper/
[02:38:28] <jmkasunich> emc2 in your home directory?
[02:38:31] <SWPadnos> ~/emc2/... or /usr/emc/... ?
[02:38:37] <renesis> and i start it from cmdline, emc/path/etc.ini
[02:38:42] <renesis> yes
[02:38:51] <SWPadnos> yes to whom?
[02:39:06] <renesis> the one that asked a yes or no question
[02:39:08] <renesis> =)
[02:39:12] <jmkasunich> do an "ls -l" in the directory where your config is stored, and see if the var file is writable
[02:39:14] <SWPadnos> sigh
[02:39:26] <renesis> sec
[02:40:10] <renesis> oh everything is user root
[02:40:16] <jmkasunich> there's your problem
[02:40:29] <jmkasunich> if it can't write the var file, it can't save the coordinate system
[02:40:29] <renesis> rootroot 644
[02:40:36] <renesis> sexy, sec
[02:40:41] <jmkasunich> you must have been root when you copied things
[02:40:44] <renesis> nothing needs to be executable?
[02:40:48] <jmkasunich> (or something)
[02:40:52] <SWPadnos> no executable
[02:40:54] <jmkasunich> no, just owned by you
[02:40:58] <renesis> yeah maybe
[02:40:58] <SWPadnos> sudo chown you:you *
[02:41:04] <SWPadnos> whoever you are
[02:41:06] <renesis> sudo and up edit cmd or something
[02:41:17] <renesis> yeah i know how ty, i test
[02:41:36] <SWPadnos> and restart of course, just in case
[02:42:41] <SWPadnos> (restart EMC2 that is, of course no reboot ios needed)
[02:42:43] <SWPadnos> -o
[02:46:47] <renesis> had to restart twice
[02:46:49] <renesis> * renesis shrug
[02:46:56] <renesis> i prob didnt restart it hard enough
[02:47:00] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:47:09] <renesis> i prob did something dumb, heh
[02:47:21] <renesis> is working now tho, ty
[02:47:24] <SWPadnos> vars are preserved, as are the current coordinates
[02:47:28] <SWPadnos> so who knows
[02:47:29] <renesis> yayay
[02:47:35] <SWPadnos> not bad for a bunch of assholes, huh? :)
[02:47:44] <renesis> you were being assholes!
[02:47:49] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:48:01] <renesis> i prob would have figured it out, whole copied home dir was root owned =\
[02:48:10] <renesis> doubt much would have been happy
[02:48:24] <SWPadnos> only a couple of files need to be writable
[02:48:36] <SWPadnos> like var and coordinates, I think
[02:48:43] <renesis> cuz i did like up arrow alt-backspace stuff lets tab tab enter
[02:48:52] <renesis> *letters
[02:49:22] <renesis> yeah i just changed the user and theyre all 644 so its working now
[02:49:31] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure wat you mean, but that's OK as long as you do
[02:49:33] <renesis> because i had to do whole home dir
[02:49:44] <SWPadnos> ah
[02:49:51] <renesis> how i did the rooted copy
[02:50:03] <renesis> wasnt paying attention and forget about the sudo stuff
[02:50:40] <SWPadnos> you often need to take care when copying between machines or disks - user IDs aren't always the same from machine to machine
[02:50:46] <renesis> i did sudo for something then redid command with other directories because im fat and lazy
[02:51:20] <SWPadnos> there's a cp option to preserve ownership and flags, but it only works if the UIDs are the same
[02:51:29] <renesis> heh, my cnc user is usually 1000 or 1001 or whatever first user default is
[02:51:43] <SWPadnos> yes, it often works in practice for personal machines
[02:51:48] <renesis> but yeah in general, very bad things
[02:51:50] <renesis> yeh
[02:52:12] <renesis> okay ima go make circuit board so my plants dont die
[02:52:22] <SWPadnos> have fun with the gro-lights
[02:52:51] <renesis> it seems to be working
[02:53:05] <renesis> i just have one array, 2.5W, for a few days, they not dead or sad looking
[02:53:30] <renesis> def looks sexier than the 14W CFL
[03:04:18] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[03:17:06] <cradek> yay, taxes done!
[03:18:17] <tomp> thrown into air & hit with 12 ga?
[03:18:26] <SWPadnos> argh. taxes
[03:20:04] <justin__> justin__ is now known as Twingy
[03:54:03] <K`zan> Ok, errands complete!
[03:54:23] <K`zan> taxes == wage slavery :-(
[07:01:49] <micges> hello
[12:23:30] <Dani> hi!
[12:24:37] <skunkworks> Dani: good morning
[12:27:53] <skunkworks> Guest100: good morning :)
[12:31:25] <Guest100> hi!
[12:31:54] <Guest100> can anyone help me with the error message:
[12:32:33] <Guest100> "command cannot be excecuted until machine is out of E-stop and turned on" ?
[12:32:52] <Guest100> what causes E-stop?
[12:36:15] <skunkworks> explain exactly what you are doing and what interface (axis?)
[12:37:05] <Guest100> I am using tkemc
[12:37:56] <Guest100> I am starting it, and I cannot jog
[12:43:40] <sweeper> * sweeper suspects e-stop is probably caused either by an e-stop butan, or a limit switch
[12:44:08] <skunkworks> I am not up on the tkemc interface - but iirc - you need to take it out of estop and turn the machine on. Seems to me it is in the upper left hand corner of the page
[12:44:37] <skunkworks> it's a drop dowm menu iirc
[12:47:12] <skunkworks> Guest100: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gui_tkemc.html#r1_2
[12:53:14] <Guest100> thanx:)
[12:53:27] <skunkworks> did it work?
[12:53:37] <Guest100> not yet
[13:04:10] <cradek> first you reset estop (which can be done with F1) and then turn machine on (which can be done with F2)
[13:10:39] <micges> what could happen if after 4 months of using emc it started reporting RTAPI: realtime delay error?
[13:11:22] <micges> minute ago it shown 4th time
[13:11:33] <micges> in a 5 hours
[13:13:48] <micges> up to now this error never shown
[13:14:07] <micges> only realtime dealy after loading EMC
[13:19:13] <Guest100> I tried F1 F2, but the machine is still in E-STOP
[13:23:03] <SWPadnos> Guest100, do you have any physical e-stop button hooked up?
[13:23:33] <SWPadnos> micges, did you do any updates on that PC?
[13:23:57] <micges> now or earlier "?
[13:24:46] <SWPadnos> before you started getting those messags
[13:24:56] <micges> yes
[13:25:10] <SWPadnos> ok - I think that might be the place to start looking for the cause ;)
[13:28:07] <micges> seriously I dont have time for this, this machine is working 24h/day and dont have any pc to replace temporarly, just asking if sth obvious could make to that error happening
[13:28:29] <skunkworks> micges: do you have a usb memory stick plugged in?
[13:29:26] <SWPadnos> changes to the installed drivers, the other applications that run along with EMC (like another one that uses OpenGL), or changes to EMC or its configuration could cause that to show up
[13:30:13] <Guest100> no
[13:30:14] <SWPadnos> I don't think user-space apps can cause the problem directly, but they could use parts of the kernel or driver functions that hadn't been used before, which can cause it
[13:30:49] <micges> I se
[13:30:53] <micges> I see
[13:30:54] <SWPadnos> Guest100, is it coming out of estop but not jogging?
[13:30:59] <SWPadnos> I see you see :)
[13:31:09] <micges> :)
[13:31:14] <Guest100> it is not coming out of E-STOP
[13:31:45] <SWPadnos> what configuration are you running?
[13:32:39] <Guest100> emc 2.0.1
[13:32:59] <SWPadnos> ewww. :)
[13:33:02] <skunkworks> yeckl
[13:54:50] <micges> bbl
[15:43:56] <alex_joni> heh http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/11/us_war_robot_rebellion_iraq/
[16:48:39] <awallin> anyone worked with CO2 lasers? I found a 25W one and I'm wondering if it could be useful for something
[17:05:46] <archivist> that has to be a question for micges when he is back in awallin he runs lasers 24h a day at work
[17:07:36] <skunkworks> I have only worked with kw lasers.
[17:07:54] <skunkworks> 25w should cut plastic easy. Maybe a thin stainless.
[17:13:16] <awallin> ok, it has a 3mm beam so that would need to be focused. maybe even expanded first and then focused for best results?
[17:14:12] <awallin> 1-2mm thick stainless would definitely be cool.
[18:31:47] <tomp2> awallin: any experience with canbus drives? i have a non-emc task that may need them.
[18:33:55] <awallin> tomp2: nope. I think I googled and asked for a pci-card at some point, but that never went anywhere
[18:34:13] <awallin> it might have been a sercos card now that I think about it...
[18:34:22] <tomp2> np: a new control wants canbus drives
[18:34:43] <tomp2> thx :0
[18:34:47] <tomp2> :)
[18:35:07] <awallin> is canbus the only protocol the drive will understand?
[18:35:26] <tomp2> the only protocol the control understands
[18:36:04] <awallin> oh. you are limited to brand-name drives like sanyo or yaskawa then?
[18:37:01] <tomp2> awallin: i 'spose so, the control mfctr doesnt sell any
[18:38:21] <awallin> unless you want to build your own drive :)
[18:40:35] <tomp2> i been lookin at lincan and some others :)
[18:44:22] <tomp2> haha, read online... CAN protocol joke " dont count your ACKs before they're hatched"
[18:46:40] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos groans mightily
[19:05:44] <awallin> anyone done a lathe conversion? I'm wondering if the prismatic ways on manual lathes work for cnc, or if they need to be replaced with linear ball-bearing rails
[19:07:18] <tomp2> "V" and a "Flat"
[19:07:21] <tomp2> ?
[19:07:37] <tomp2> or dovetail?
[19:08:01] <awallin> just in general, I haven't got a specific lathe in mind... I think the Z is usually an upside down V thing
[19:08:26] <awallin> dovetails don't work very well on a mill in my experience
[19:10:40] <cradek> but lots of machines (mills and lathes) have dovetails...
[19:10:49] <SWPadnos> like most manual bridgeports
[19:10:55] <SWPadnos> maybe all manuals actually
[19:10:56] <tomp2> yes, but when built for cnc, then fewer
[19:10:57] <cradek> and cnc bridgeports
[19:11:05] <archivist> for me upwards v are best on lathes
[19:12:31] <tomp2> I call that "v and a flat" like many older surface grinders
[19:12:50] <tomp2> but i have very little experience with lathes
[19:12:52] <SWPadnos> heh - kinematic ways. cool
[19:13:36] <awallin> ok. would need to install just ballscrews then. might be a fun project after I get the mill going
[19:14:31] <archivist> I need a lathe to convert as mine is now part of the mill
[19:37:04] <alex_joni> whee.. my irssi is up since 26 Jan 2008/14:08
[19:37:30] <SWPadnos> oh yeah? well my irssi is - uh - what's irssi? :)
[19:37:45] <SWPadnos> (no need to answer - I know what it is :) )
[19:37:54] <alex_joni> I'm sure you do ;)
[19:38:16] <SWPadnos> one of these days I'll actually set up that machine to run all the time with screen and stuff
[19:38:27] <alex_joni> why not do it at DH?
[19:38:28] <SWPadnos> no, mor likely it'll be one of those days, not one of these
[19:38:42] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure I can. haven't tried
[19:39:18] <alex_joni> screen is there
[19:39:21] <alex_joni> irssi isn't
[19:39:30] <alex_joni> but I bet you can just copy the binary
[19:39:34] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[20:13:47] <dmess> hee haaa... coming soon to a theater near ME the A10-warthog main landing gear.... I love it when the military can't replace an old bird of war.....
[20:24:07] <toastydeath> i don't understand the imperitive to replace something that works fantastically well
[20:24:16] <toastydeath> i'm not sure how you can improve on a gun with engines
[20:24:29] <SWPadnos> don't forget the armor
[20:24:37] <K`zan> more complexity - greater potential for failure...
[20:24:54] <K`zan> No amount of tech will replace competent markmanship...
[20:25:10] <SWPadnos> um, well I wouldn't say that's true
[20:25:15] <SWPadnos> there are nukes, after all
[20:25:21] <K`zan> And them there is the issue of batteries :-).
[20:25:28] <K`zan> them/then
[20:25:29] <toastydeath> i don't think you have to really aim a gun that fires 6.5k rounds a minute
[20:25:45] <K`zan> Yep, you do. General direction, but stull.
[20:25:46] <SWPadnos> it's best to make sure it's pointing downrange instead of at the spectators
[20:25:48] <archivist> marksmanship! A10 is blunderbuss
[20:25:58] <K`zan> Works for me :-) :-) :-).
[20:26:12] <K`zan> Shotguns are still king in close quarters.
[20:26:23] <SWPadnos> especially automatic ones
[20:26:37] <K`zan> Yep, always wanted a Streetsweeper.
[20:26:57] <SWPadnos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wg1pFNwTOE
[20:28:15] <K`zan> WANT!!!!!!!!!
[20:28:18] <K`zan> :-)
[20:28:28] <SWPadnos> there's a better video - I'm looking for it now
[20:28:42] <K`zan> I'm not sure I can handle the envy for more :)
[20:28:55] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:29:00] <SWPadnos> they have little grneade rounds for the one I'm thinking of
[20:29:04] <SWPadnos> grenade
[20:29:32] <K`zan> All sorts of interesting ordinance for shotguns anymore. All it takes is lots of $$$ and a friend in the gov.
[20:30:54] <K`zan> Personally rather like the flichette(sp?) rounds.
[20:31:02] <SWPadnos> here's an article: http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=741
[20:31:30] <SkinnYPupp> You'll both love this errrr flashlight ... http://youtube.com/watch?v=D99NHb6B03s
[20:32:29] <K`zan> nicknamed "Panzerfaust" by Baber - Not quite but...
[20:33:42] <K`zan> Neat, but simplicity wins out for me :)
[20:37:07] <SWPadnos> ah, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c
[20:45:15] <K`zan> Bloody impressive and makes perfect sense.
[20:45:40] <K`zan> No pun intended :)
[20:45:55] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:46:10] <SWPadnos> almost makes me want to go out and get a license or whatever
[20:46:35] <K`zan> :-), something like a Remington 1100 is probably the best you can do as a civilian.
[20:46:58] <SWPadnos> the AA-12 is apparently available to civilians, but not the grenade/explosive rounds
[20:47:17] <SWPadnos> I could just flash my veteran card and see what happens ;)
[20:47:26] <K`zan> Yeah, well, sigh. The thought of seeing the price would probably give me heart failure :).
[20:47:32] <SWPadnos> indeed
[20:47:35] <K`zan> 38e7, u O
[20:47:40] <K`zan> :)
[20:48:50] <K`zan> A friend offered me a 1100 in 12ga but it won't feel rounds (something wrong with the trap door that tilts up to allow the bolt to feed the round into the chamber.
[20:48:53] <K`zan> )
[20:49:21] <K`zan> No idea what it would cost to fix that, but it sure is tempting.
[20:50:06] <K`zan> feel / feed
[20:52:07] <cradek> SWPadnos: why do they whisper in that theatrical voice?
[20:52:19] <SWPadnos> because he thinks he's having sex or something
[20:52:22] <SWPadnos> ?
[20:52:31] <cradek> how sad
[20:52:51] <K`zan> Dunno, I guess you are supposed to think he is giving you the confidental poop...
[20:52:51] <SWPadnos> yeah. it's a Discover channel thing, so they probably had to make it seem "cooler" somehow
[20:53:26] <K`zan> Being on TV, that seems ludicrous, but then again most TV is...
[20:53:32] <K`zan> http://www.cncfusion.com/micromill1.html
[20:53:43] <K`zan> Next month if the price doesn't go up again...
[20:53:57] <K`zan> !!
[21:01:04] <K`zan> Lunch - bbl
[21:12:29] <skunkworks> 1100 is like shooting a .22
[21:12:36] <skunkworks> *almost
[21:13:15] <skunkworks> well - if the 1100 is what I am thinking of. The whole barrel moves in and out of the reciever to do the re-loading
[21:50:53] <fenn> K`zan: april 15 = tax day, april 16 = emancipation day - coincidence?
[21:52:22] <fenn> (unless you live in texas)
[21:52:36] <ds2> eh?
[21:58:47] <ds2> what are the chances of having a cheap import set of gage blocks and a cheap import mic agreeing on measurements and still have wrong results?
[21:59:05] <K`zan> Think a 266MHz laptop with 384M would be enough to run EMC well enough?
[21:59:17] <ds2> Live CD or installed?
[21:59:30] <K`zan> Either, got 80G of disk on it.
[21:59:41] <K`zan> Installed isn't a problem.
[21:59:42] <ds2> I suspect it won't work well with the Live CD
[21:59:53] <ds2> install requires work and time
[22:00:17] <K`zan> I like the idea of the laptop simply because it is more compact than a desktop, monitor, etc...
[22:00:41] <K`zan> No problem, been installing linux since about 1991 maybe earlier, I'm getting senile :).
[22:00:48] <ds2> but more expensive to replace if chips get into the wrong places :/
[22:00:50] <archivist> ds2, I would check the zero (and clean faces) of the micrometer and test more than once
[22:01:21] <K`zan> True, not sure what to do about the interface at this point, optically isolated would be nice.
[22:01:23] <ds2> archivist: how would you check the zero? the only way I know is to loosely clamp a peice of paper and slide it out
[22:01:44] <tomp2> ds2 if both are from same manufacturer, then maybe their reference was bad, so both agree and both are wrong
[22:02:09] <archivist> to clean faces yes, then close and see how far from 0
[22:02:10] <ds2> tomp2: that I can't tell... they are ordered from different importers, at least 2 years apart
[22:02:35] <K`zan> Maybe work up something between the parallel port and the drives with a pile of optos on it. Easy enough to do.
[22:03:01] <archivist> and there are special slips/guages to test the screw on a micrometer
[22:03:12] <tomp2> ds2 check on a dowel pin, cheap, easy to get, accurate as any mike
[22:03:44] <ds2> but that's a good point
[22:03:54] <ds2> tomp2: are dowel pins suppose to be consistant in size?
[22:04:05] <tomp2> mike can be adjusted by rotating the barrel, gauge block is tuff
[22:04:13] <archivist> they will have a tolerance
[22:04:17] <tomp2> dowel I use are... std mould shop stuff
[22:04:26] <ds2> I see.
[22:04:31] <tomp2> yes the tolerance is below what i expct from a mike
[22:04:49] <archivist> guage blocks should be better
[22:05:00] <ds2> tomp2: I donno why the barrel should be rotateable as this is a electronic digital mic...it did came with a wrench for the barrel
[22:05:18] <tomp2> oh, dunno electronic mikes
[22:05:19] <ds2> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10422
[22:05:26] <ds2> that is the item that finally arrived
[22:05:41] <ds2> i wanted a metric capable mic and that seemd to be at the right price
[22:06:47] <tomp2> pic shows a manual, maybe adjustable, and looks like it has spi out
[22:07:15] <ds2> not SPI, it is suppose to be the same protocol as those cheap import calipers
[22:07:46] <tomp2> i wipe 'em on the border of the button flap on my shirt :) and wipe blox on my forearm ( human chamois ... old grinder hand trick )
[22:08:30] <archivist> Ide like one to try on my glass blocks
[22:08:47] <tomp2> glass, wow, i seen ceramic
[22:08:59] <ds2> the only other standard i have is a bunch of gage pins but they were used and assembled from various different sets
[22:09:01] <archivist> a micrometer testing set
[22:09:13] <ds2> donno if that is better then the import gage blocks
[22:09:21] <tomp2> cool, hey, email archivist your mike ;)
[22:09:28] <archivist> hehe
[22:09:28] <ds2> heh
[22:09:37] <ds2> got a 62F room to go with that? ;)
[22:09:42] <archivist> no
[22:09:45] <ds2> or is it 68F
[22:10:00] <archivist> normally effing cold
[22:10:03] <tomp2> yeah, lay 'em on the surface plate & get a cuppa... then check
[22:10:36] <ds2> that's if the surface plate isn't also one of those import ones
[22:10:51] <tomp2> :)
[22:11:14] <ds2> it is so hard to have a real independent standard to evaluate stuff
[22:11:34] <archivist> ex gov toys ftw
[22:11:48] <tomp2> i went to a shop building some heater dies ( runs hot ). they were heating it while they cut it to make sure the dimensions were good when hot
[22:12:41] <tomp2> hey, didnt that mike come with a standard?
[22:12:53] <ds2> nope
[22:13:12] <ds2> are the standards that come with mics suppose to be as good as a gage/jo block?
[22:13:35] <archivist> depends on price
[22:13:45] <tomp2> should be, my old mitutoyos are
[22:14:12] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:14:17] <ds2> oh heh
[22:14:18] <tomp2> nite alex
[22:14:19] <archivist> mitutoyos are proper tools not chinese
[22:15:09] <ds2> so much for that idea... an Enco house brand set of 1 to 3 inch mic that sold for $40 probally isn't a good source for a standard
[22:15:28] <tomp2> i bought these in the 70's... when Japanese tools had same quality doubts in toolmaker's minds
[22:15:49] <tomp2> difference was, i checked 'em before handing the guy money
[22:15:54] <tomp2> damn internet
[22:16:20] <ds2> the thing is, thesedays, even the lower end starrets are imports
[22:17:17] <tomp2> so, check 'em before buying, drive to some dealer, "cheap tools are expensive" they say
[22:17:52] <archivist> they cause scrap work
[22:18:42] <ds2> *nod*
[22:19:32] <ds2> i might try to talked to an instructor at the JC about letting me use their measuring tools for an hour or so to verify them. they got the good stuff (all donations from local industry)
[22:19:46] <ds2> and some of them even have current calibration/certification
[22:21:23] <archivist> bench micrometer with a pressure device on the anvil to make sure the pressure is allways the same is a nice toy for testing standards
[22:21:57] <ds2> is pressure that much more of an influence then temperature?
[22:22:33] <archivist> its easy to spring the frame
[22:22:46] <tomp2> more mistakes by gorilla's twisting the mike than from temperature
[22:22:51] <ds2> isn't that what the friction thimble is suppose to prevent?
[22:23:08] <archivist> friction helps a bit
[22:23:12] <tomp2> the friction device prevents feel, i remove them right away
[22:23:48] <ds2> interesting. what about the racheting ones?
[22:23:52] <tomp2> just my way, ymmv
[22:23:56] <archivist> you can over speed with the friction and spring the frame
[22:24:13] <tomp2> >i< can feel better w/o them
[22:24:20] <archivist> slow and delicate is best
[22:24:49] <ds2> i can feel it but i also use the thimble as a extra check
[22:25:34] <archivist> feel beats thimble
[22:25:46] <tomp2> scissor beats paper :0
[22:26:02] <archivist> pressure anvil beats feel
[22:26:59] <ds2> it seems like what you are saying is consistant with all the machinist people... the automotive folks (mostly the instructor in an automotive class) recommends using the thimbles
[22:28:33] <tomp2> mechanics toolbox = craftsman, machinist toolbox = gerstner.... its a different trade
[22:28:37] <archivist> well we have to work to tenths, automotive maybe a thou or 1/2 a thou
[22:29:25] <fenn> K`zan: laptops are usually no good because they have power saving hardware which induces realtime delays
[22:29:32] <ds2> automotive does things to the tenths also -- these are engine rebuilders
[22:30:13] <K`zan> fenn: Point made, guess we go with the desktop and LONG connections to the mill :).
[22:30:36] <K`zan> Wonder if anyone has been around who CNC'd a micromill?
[22:31:10] <K`zan> Been looking on ebay for drives and steppers - some decent deals it looks like there but I still think I want the Gecko 201s
[22:31:18] <ds2> that ought to be easy to find, just listen for the nonstop obscenities ;)
[22:31:28] <tomp2> is cradek's a micromill or a minimill? ( is there a macromill )
[22:31:36] <K`zan> Yeah well, it is what I have and can afford :-/.
[22:32:10] <K`zan> Wish I could afford AND have a place for a Bridgeport, but that isn't likely any time soon :-(.
[22:32:30] <ds2> K`zan: I have read more about a minimill conversion the a micromill
[22:32:32] <K`zan> As it stands the landlord is not really happy with the mini lathe and micro mill :).
[22:32:49] <tomp2> not a bad idea, actually should be able to very precise becuz its short travel, just dont know the size of micromill
[22:32:50] <archivist> ds2 to test feel, measure a rubber roller to tenths and check if parallel
[22:33:06] <K`zan> Yep, lots more of that. Wish I had the $ to get that one rather than the micro, but it is still a lot better than NO mill at all :).
[22:33:18] <ds2> *nod*
[22:33:27] <tomp2> when landlord comes around, hide it in the microwave :)
[22:33:34] <ds2> K`zan: you got the extended table and other upgrade stuff from LMS?
[22:33:42] <K`zan> Heh, still too big for that :).
[22:33:53] <tomp2> put a lampshade on it
[22:34:00] <fenn> just put a reprap cake decorating head on it and call it a kitchen implement
[22:34:11] <archivist> ds2, we were building a printer and tapered rollers were screwing the paper up
[22:34:18] <K`zan> ds2: No, I have been scrounging to 1st get the mounts, then the rest of the CNC stuff to get started. Then I can expand the tables.
[22:34:27] <K`zan> On my list, but it is slow going.
[22:34:55] <ds2> archivist: that is got to be hard to find
[22:34:56] <K`zan> Only things I have at this point is a power supply (marginal, but good for a start) and the mill.
[22:35:11] <archivist> ds2, it wasnt easy
[22:35:15] <fenn> so the stepper driver never worked?
[22:35:23] <fenn> iirc you were doing something with avr's
[22:35:26] <K`zan> wb a-l-p-h-a
[22:35:28] <K`zan> :)
[22:35:33] <ds2> K`zan: from what I read (I had considered the micromill), it does more then extended to the table; it makes it more rigid
[22:35:51] <K`zan> fenn: Yes, was but lots of stuff has gotten in the way since my last pass here, slowly digging out.
[22:36:25] <K`zan> ds2: That too, but stock will let me get into it rather than waiting forever for what I really want.
[22:37:14] <K`zan> Who knows, might earn a few $$$ with it to pay for the expansions!
[22:38:38] <K`zan> If the eco stimulus actually comes through, that would cover the expanded tables :).
[22:39:05] <a-l-p-h-a> hi K`zan
[22:41:51] <K`zan> a-l-p-h-a: Hey there!
[22:43:42] <a-l-p-h-a> what's going on?
[22:50:12] <K`zan> a-l-p-h-a: Slowly moving forward, like glacially, but forward :). About saved up enough to go for the mounts next month if all goes well :)!
[22:52:11] <a-l-p-h-a> who are you mounting? ;)
[22:57:23] <K`zan> a-l-p-h-a: I see your head is still in the sewer :) LOL!
[22:57:57] <K`zan> These: http://www.cncfusion.com/micromill1.html
[22:58:44] <K`zan> bbiab
[23:04:15] <sweeper> K`zan: that's freaking expensive for some mounts :/
[23:05:01] <fenn> more than the mill, looks like
[23:06:18] <sweeper> yea. I'll bet I could get everything except the couplings for under $100 if I had them made at a machine shop in town
[23:07:04] <fenn> pff couplings? reinforced rubber hose and hose clamps
[23:07:54] <archivist> or machine some ally and stuff o rings in the gaps
[23:08:15] <archivist> dog clutch style
[23:08:20] <fenn> or squirt some silicone goo in there yarr
[23:10:18] <K`zan> sweeper: Yes, it is. Plug and play though. Once I have something working the rest is pretty easy.
[23:11:37] <K`zan> Thought about using 3" channel and doing it that way, but with what I have that would be a long job. Dunno, that is the easy way out :-/.
[23:12:30] <K`zan> The rubber hose / hose clamp couplings seemed to work well enough on the stuff I was messing with before.
[23:13:32] <K`zan> No idea how critical the couplings are considering the way the uMill is set up. Would like to do better than +/- 1/2" tolerances :).
[23:13:44] <archivist> local scrap yard is good for lumps of metal to make couplers and stepper motor mounts
[23:13:57] <K`zan> Not around here...
[23:14:19] <K`zan> the cities recycling mania has pretty much made it cheaper to buy retail.
[23:14:55] <archivist> scrap yards do recycling :))
[23:15:14] <archivist> they can get better money retail
[23:15:31] <K`zan> Yep and want almost as much as ordering from Online Metals :(. If you can find a scrapyard with anything useful.
[23:16:21] <K`zan> Only one "scrapyard" vaguely close here and they almost always have garbage, very rarely anything useful.
[23:16:41] <K`zan> Got some stainless shafts a while back and that is the best they had.
[23:17:01] <K`zan> Sigh.
[23:17:07] <sweeper> I get stainless shafts from printers
[23:17:07] <K`zan> I hate this F'ing place...
[23:17:29] <sweeper> I go around to the computer shps and buy old inkjets and dot matix printers for like $1
[23:17:31] <K`zan> Not that size :). But yes, the thrift stores have hordes of printers.
[23:17:41] <K`zan> $5 more or less.
[23:18:14] <sweeper> old inkjets are almost as solid as dot matrix printers
[23:18:23] <K`zan> I just took the stainless because they had it and used it to make a bolster bar out of it. Played merry hell with the mini-lathe :). Tough stuff.
[23:18:43] <K`zan> Shame the steppers on them are so weak though :).
[23:19:15] <sweeper> got a 12mm roller and a 8 mmaxis bar out of one I got last night
[23:20:09] <K`zan> The main reason for those mounts are that it is "a done deal" and I don't have to spend lots of time putzing around trying to come up with something that works. At this point most of what I have a hand tools.
[23:20:25] <fenn> you have a micro mill..
[23:20:33] <K`zan> Yes, HF.
[23:20:43] <K`zan> Apartment sized :).
[23:20:50] <sweeper> yea. I guess if you're milling metal it's a bit more difficult
[23:21:30] <sweeper> can't just put something together out of mdf :P
[23:21:47] <K`zan> Yep, but a lot faster than a hand drill, jigsaw and files.
[23:22:00] <K`zan> BTDT