#emc | Logs for 2008-04-05

[00:51:49] <ken> hello all
[00:56:37] <ken> ken is now known as ken_
[00:59:57] <ken_> which emc2 is best to send info to the machine ? mini..stepper...stepper-1
[01:01:59] <ken_> i've been useing mini (haven't got mill yet) to learn the codes but not sure if it's good to use with the mill
[02:50:10] <jmkasunich> anybody have experience machining sand cast aluminum? I think it might be 356 alloy
[02:52:00] <toastydeath> we do these bizarre ring things at work
[02:52:11] <toastydeath> sand cast
[02:52:27] <jmkasunich> I just ran 5 of 16 parts for a friend, and I'm seeing significant wear on my uncoated HSS endmill
[02:52:31] <toastydeath> yep
[02:52:39] <jmkasunich> is that stuff more abrasive than the usual 6061?
[02:52:43] <toastydeath> very, very much so
[02:52:48] <jmkasunich> ick
[02:52:49] <toastydeath> there's a lot of sand inclusions in it.
[02:53:07] <toastydeath> we use exclusively carbide insert tooling for it
[02:53:12] <toastydeath> the harder grades, at that
[02:53:20] <toastydeath> you can see it kick off a spark once in awhile.
[02:53:29] <jmkasunich> carbide endmill is $56, HSS with TiCN coating is $15, I'm having trouble deciding which way to go
[02:53:46] <toastydeath> the carbide will last you the job and probably longer
[02:53:50] <toastydeath> but it will also take a beating
[02:54:00] <jmkasunich> since this is a friend job, I can't really just pass the cost on
[02:54:10] <cradek> jmkasunich: darn, wish I could loan you mine
[02:54:15] <toastydeath> you can always send an uncoated endmill to get a resharp
[02:54:47] <toastydeath> that helps the cost of carbide tooling
[02:54:56] <toastydeath> also a good carbide endmill in regular aluminum will haul ass forever
[02:54:59] <jmkasunich> I doubt resharp makes much sense at this size (5/16" dia, 3/8" shank, one size longer than standard (because I need the reach)
[02:54:59] <toastydeath> if you run it fast
[02:55:03] <toastydeath> oh
[02:55:24] <toastydeath> eh, we do have some resharps in that size
[02:55:34] <jmkasunich> I'm running 2400 RPM, which is as fast as my machine goes - thats about 180 SFPM
[02:55:47] <jmkasunich> in 6061 uncoated HSS would cut all day
[02:55:53] <toastydeath> yep
[02:55:57] <toastydeath> not so in anything sand cast.
[02:56:06] <toastydeath> sand is unavoidable in the castings.
[02:56:55] <dmess> hi all
[02:56:59] <jmkasunich> hiya
[02:57:31] <jmkasunich> I suppose I should check somebody other than mcmaster - if I can find a slightly better price for carbide it sounds like the way to go
[02:57:58] <dmess> has any one done any speed runs using emc2??
[02:58:07] <jmkasunich> speed runs?
[02:58:08] <cradek> can you get by with 1/4? They are not expensive at all
[02:58:20] <jmkasunich> you mean 1/4 dia with 1/4" shanks?
[02:58:21] <dmess> what kind of carbide??
[02:58:24] <cradek> yeah
[02:58:34] <jmkasunich> I don't (currently) have a 1/4" holder
[02:58:41] <cradek> hmm, you'd need even more spindle speed too I guess
[02:58:52] <jmkasunich> dmess: the kind that cuts sand cast aluminum without getting dull
[02:59:50] <dmess> there is very little carbide that does high silicon content alu very well.... it is harder than glass
[03:00:05] <toastydeath> it lasts longer than hss tho
[03:00:06] <jmkasunich> cradek: 5/16 with 3/8 shank vs. 5/16 with 5/16 shank is a big difference - I imagine that 1/4 even more so
[03:00:21] <cradek> jmkasunich: the pump is unstuck and I didn't overtly break anything!
[03:00:26] <dmess> true... is this a production job?? or 1 off
[03:00:38] <cradek> I wouldn't be at all surprised if it runs tomorrow
[03:00:49] <jmkasunich> semi-production - 16 pieces for a friend
[03:01:06] <jmkasunich> after 5 pieces, my uncoated HSS mill is starting to bog down, and visibly worn
[03:01:08] <dmess> thats production for me
[03:01:31] <jmkasunich> the "for a friend" part means I can't just go by a $50 end mill and pass on the cost
[03:01:39] <dmess> hey a carbide should finish it up..
[03:02:14] <dmess> can you wait a few days... i'll send ya 1
[03:02:15] <cradek> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=322-5024&PMPXNO=7776407&PARTPG=INLMK32
[03:02:47] <cradek> lots of choices at $18-$20
[03:02:54] <dmess> have you tried using varsol on it??
[03:03:02] <jmkasunich> what's varsol?
[03:03:10] <dmess> a solvent
[03:03:16] <jmkasunich> (I've been using WD-40, which is mostly kerosene)
[03:03:32] <dmess> varsol is thinner
[03:04:07] <dmess> leaves a nice finish... but dont smoke around the machine..
[03:04:11] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:04:20] <toastydeath> i'm not sure how much coolant will help aside from finish, he's only able to spin it at 180 sfm
[03:04:37] <jmkasunich> dmess: I'm using a shoptask - a rather lame mill
[03:04:42] <jmkasunich> 2400 RPM on a 5/16" cutter
[03:04:56] <cradek> do you need the 5/16 or can you use straight 3/8?
[03:04:58] <dmess> feedrate??
[03:05:26] <jmkasunich> 5 ipm when cutting part-width, about 2-3 ipm when cutting full width
[03:05:30] <dmess> are you profiling or facing this thing
[03:05:37] <jmkasunich> the machine is NOT happy about cutting full width
[03:05:39] <jmkasunich> mostly facing
[03:05:57] <jmkasunich> I could use a larger tool - I'd have to revise the program a bit is all
[03:06:04] <toastydeath> if you are facing use a flycutter
[03:06:07] <dmess> 4 flute or 2??
[03:06:08] <toastydeath> and just resharpen it
[03:06:09] <cradek> do you have any carbide? I bet you could use a flycutter
[03:06:11] <jmkasunich> 2
[03:06:22] <jmkasunich> flycutter isn't really an option
[03:06:25] <toastydeath> o
[03:06:41] <dmess> flycutter fould face it off best... single point 1 pass
[03:06:48] <jmkasunich> this machine doesn't like low speeds, unbalance, or interrupted cuts - its very flexible as mills go
[03:07:10] <jmkasunich> the job isn't entirely facing - I use the same tool to outline a port
[03:07:19] <toastydeath> a toolchange is in order
[03:07:22] <jmkasunich> its an intake manifold for a small engine
[03:07:23] <toastydeath> =)
[03:08:18] <dmess> facing a port seal area with anything other than a f/c is unacceptable if its MY engine..
[03:08:22] <jmkasunich> toolchanges are manual - so I'm trying to avoid them
[03:08:31] <toastydeath> toolchange is in order, man
[03:08:49] <dmess> but to make a good part you should
[03:08:50] <toastydeath> you need to balance a flycutter and face it that way, you'll way save on endmills
[03:09:10] <jmkasunich> hmm
[03:09:43] <toastydeath> because like, you know, a 20 dollar grinder from HF
[03:09:54] <toastydeath> and you have a completely abusable and resharpenable facing tool
[03:09:57] <dmess> how big is the part??? aprox machined area l x w x d
[03:10:09] <jmkasunich> dmess: I was just measuring it ;-)
[03:10:33] <jmkasunich> 1.5W x 2.5L x about 0.100 deep
[03:10:48] <dmess> processing parts is my day job too
[03:10:54] <jmkasunich> with a 0.812 port in the middle that is cast a bit off center and needs rounded out
[03:11:35] <dmess> is this port CUSTOM
[03:11:43] <jmkasunich> not really
[03:11:49] <dmess> needs kellering??
[03:12:00] <jmkasunich> what's kellering?
[03:12:09] <dmess> or would a form cutter do
[03:12:30] <dmess> 3-d contouring is kellering
[03:12:34] <jmkasunich> part fixtured: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/IMGP1995.JPG
[03:12:48] <jmkasunich> I face it, clean up the port, and drill two holes
[03:13:11] <toastydeath> face all the parts
[03:13:20] <jmkasunich> the next step is flipping it over, mounting it by the newly drilled holes, and do the other end, haven't worked out the details of that end yet
[03:13:20] <toastydeath> toolchange, clean the part
[03:13:23] <toastydeath> toolchange, drill
[03:13:35] <toastydeath> part/port
[03:14:59] <dmess> fun ehh.. some of my part hav 60-70 machining operations and 30-50 processing ops..
[03:15:01] <jmkasunich> flycutter is sounding more and more like a good idea
[03:15:11] <jmkasunich> dmess: you get paid a lot more per part too
[03:15:20] <jmkasunich> this is definitely a low end operation
[03:15:31] <dmess> different business lad..
[03:15:45] <jmkasunich> you make landing gear, right?
[03:15:47] <toastydeath> the only 'trick,' if you even want to call it that, from doing 1 part to 10+ is to change the part, not the tool
[03:16:04] <toastydeath> then when you finish all whatever you change the tool and start over
[03:16:13] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: that assumes that the part goes into the fixture consistently every time
[03:16:19] <dmess> i perforn the same duties for many low end operations that need it right the 1st time or they loose the farm..
[03:16:38] <toastydeath> jmkasunich: true, but if it doesn't there's usually other issues as well.
[03:16:59] <toastydeath> and a little creative process engineering can go a long way.
[03:18:17] <dmess> yes... landing gear now... but ive made some of everything... steel mills , cars , cruise missles , knobbly washers is what i call them all
[03:18:17] <jmkasunich> this first step is supposed to give us a flat face and two good holes - then it won't be so hard to fixture for subsequent operations
[03:19:08] <toastydeath> then have it clamp upward against stops
[03:19:11] <toastydeath> rather than clamping down.
[03:19:17] <toastydeath> or to the side, or what have you.
[03:19:32] <toastydeath> or just keep going how you are, whatever is working
[03:19:37] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[03:19:40] <toastydeath> =)
[03:19:52] <dmess> so face the bottom end 1st... off the flater larger facer
[03:20:10] <jmkasunich> well, I have two evenings into fixturing and programming so far
[03:20:28] <toastydeath> how much longer in machine time and tooling?
[03:20:36] <dmess> evenings are cheaper arent they??
[03:20:43] <jmkasunich> I can do about 5-6 parts per hour
[03:20:50] <jmkasunich> so two more hours would finish this end
[03:21:27] <jmkasunich> I really don't want to build a different fixture for this end - that would feel like starting over
[03:21:28] <toastydeath> also is it just the tips of the endmill
[03:21:30] <toastydeath> that are worn
[03:21:30] <dmess> if rpm 's are limited you may be better to stick with hss
[03:21:40] <jmkasunich> yes, just the tips
[03:21:46] <toastydeath> grind the EM back
[03:21:49] <toastydeath> like a drill.
[03:21:53] <toastydeath> except you know, don't point it.
[03:21:56] <dmess> slow it down then rpm wise they will last longer
[03:22:32] <toastydeath> when i'm beating on an endmill i just let it get a little dull and grind it till the dul part of the flute is gone, which isn't far.
[03:22:41] <toastydeath> *dull
[03:23:08] <jmkasunich> hmm, I should try that
[03:23:36] <toastydeath> take a little off one flute at time, and spin to the next one
[03:23:36] <toastydeath> so they're all somewhat even by the time you're done
[03:23:36] <dmess> usuall its at the depth of cut line
[03:23:36] <cradek> if you don't care if you end up cutting mostly on one flute, I bet you can freehand it
[03:23:46] <dmess> how much mat'l is your deepest up the e/m
[03:23:56] <jmkasunich> DOC is 0.050 or less
[03:24:08] <toastydeath> cradek: i am talking about freehand
[03:24:24] <jmkasunich> I've been thinking about trying to go deeper, so it would take fewer passes = less wear on the corners
[03:24:47] <dmess> are the chips sticking??
[03:24:59] <jmkasunich> not usually
[03:25:25] <toastydeath> jmkasunich: that's another good tip, the less shear area a cutter has to go through the longer it lasts
[03:25:32] <dmess> slow the feed and go... keep it to about .002-.003 per tooth...
[03:25:57] <jmkasunich> dmess: right now I'm at well under that
[03:26:08] <toastydeath> that's uh, bad
[03:26:15] <jmkasunich> I know
[03:26:18] <dmess> but drop the rpm to 2000
[03:26:27] <jmkasunich> If I had scrap pieces to experiment with I would
[03:26:35] <toastydeath> why is that experimenting
[03:27:01] <dmess> use the firs .05 to experiment.. DRIVE it... break the chip
[03:27:06] <jmkasunich> but I'm afraid to go heavier with his parts - not sure of my fixture rigidity, and the machine itself isn't very good
[03:27:50] <dmess> its a 5/16" cutter... 1 good kick checks the fixture...
[03:28:11] <jmkasunich> did you see the fixture pic?
[03:28:36] <dmess> and stand by the machine dont just plug and go play with youself
[03:28:49] <jmkasunich> the vise is doing all the clamping - it bears on about 1/4" of the rounded ends
[03:28:59] <jmkasunich> dmess: I'm not stupid
[03:29:43] <dmess> i know... i just work in a union shop and you gotta say it..
[03:29:51] <toastydeath> hahaha
[03:29:52] <jmkasunich> I stand there, and spritz lube on it, but if something shifts and digs in, I'll have a ruined part or broken tool before I can even start to reach for the estop
[03:30:09] <dmess> or the say he didnt say i couldn't...
[03:30:17] <toastydeath> what's that one saying
[03:30:20] <jmkasunich> I realise I'm kinda chicken-shit - I'm still learning the machines limits
[03:30:27] <toastydeath> the customer has the explicit right to keep both halves of the broken part?
[03:30:53] <dmess> i like that toast...
[03:30:54] <jmkasunich> the friend paid an arm and a leg (tooling cost especially) for the parts that I really don't want to ruin
[03:31:26] <dmess> then why is he trying to get them don on the so cheap
[03:31:46] <toastydeath> jmkasunich is a much better friend than i am
[03:31:51] <jmkasunich> cause he's alot like me
[03:32:00] <jmkasunich> cheapskate
[03:32:09] <toastydeath> i'd be charging anyone who wanted sand castings done, at least for tooling
[03:32:24] <toastydeath> and i'd want a spare for setup, especially if i'm making 16 instead of 1
[03:32:26] <dmess> tools and time is by best deal
[03:32:52] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:33:08] <dmess> and 5% scrap allowace ofer 10 pcs.
[03:33:09] <jmkasunich> I think I'll try sharpening that end mill and run another part - see if it runs nicer
[03:33:49] <toastydeath> keep in mind that 5 ipm and .002 chip load is an ultra light cut, especially at .050
[03:34:05] <toastydeath> for the future, anyway
[03:35:27] <dmess> the machine may very well work better once loaded a littlee
[03:35:48] <toastydeath> i bet 80% of your wear is that you have you chip load under .002
[03:35:56] <toastydeath> and that's giving the sand a chance to really grind the tool down
[03:36:03] <dmess> right now its just rattling and clanging under a lose spindle
[03:37:03] <tom1> there's small tools ( <1" tool shank) that use inserts. you can buy different inserts ( hss, tin, carbide ) and handle different materials and handle chipped tools ( longer term solution)
[03:37:14] <dmess> FYI first profile cut should be conventional milled not climb milled
[03:37:46] <toastydeath> i'm pretty sure his machine has backlash and thus precludes climb milling without shenanigans
[03:38:26] <dmess> lets your tooth dig into base metal insted of a coating of sand encrusted crap
[03:40:54] <jmkasunich> the sharpened tool doesn't look too bad under a 10x lens
[03:41:05] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna drop speed, up feed, and see what happens
[03:41:44] <toastydeath> or just drop speed!
[03:41:51] <toastydeath> if you are concerned about forces.
[03:41:59] <toastydeath> feed rate determines the stress on the fixture, not rpm
[03:42:22] <jmkasunich> not feed per tooth?
[03:42:32] <toastydeath> force DECREASES with increasing feed per tooth
[03:42:51] <toastydeath> it's called the feed coefficient with a .010" per tooth/rev/whatever as the standard
[03:43:05] <toastydeath> .002" has a 1.20" coeffcient, which is bad
[03:43:13] <toastydeath> .060" per tooth is 0.79
[03:43:40] <jmkasunich> weird - I sure didn't know that
[03:43:47] <toastydeath> shear is the major force
[03:44:06] <jmkasunich> how can ripping off a 0.060 chip generate less force than shaving off a 0.002 one
[03:44:08] <toastydeath> the fewer shear planes you generate in a given distance, the less force it takes to cut that material
[03:44:16] <toastydeath> obviously you do reach a diminishing return
[03:44:25] <toastydeath> where the bending force takes over
[03:44:31] <toastydeath> but it's very large, at like .100"-.120"
[03:44:36] <jmkasunich> wow
[03:44:50] <toastydeath> that's why they use .060"
[03:45:00] <toastydeath> that's the most economical feed.
[03:45:06] <toastydeath> .060 on big lathes and whatnot, that is
[03:45:58] <toastydeath> you need a pretty big facemill to get .060 on a milling machine
[03:46:09] <toastydeath> but a lot of mills will do .020" easy
[03:46:13] <toastydeath> insert mills
[03:46:32] <jmkasunich> damn I'm good
[03:46:40] <toastydeath> ?
[03:46:47] <jmkasunich> flute lengths match within 0.001 - freehand sharpened
[03:46:51] <toastydeath> hot!
[03:47:14] <toastydeath> also this may interest you, in small machines especially
[03:47:15] <jmkasunich> (DTI on a height gage - my tool length pre-setter)
[03:47:24] <toastydeath> the chip load determines the chatter damping factor
[03:47:32] <toastydeath> the depth of cut is the gain, and the chip load is the damper
[03:48:12] <toastydeath> so especially on a small machine like a bport, it's important to maximize feed to get the most out of the machine's limited rigidity.
[03:48:19] <toastydeath> bport and smaller, obv
[03:48:28] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:48:41] <jmkasunich> a compared to a shoptask, a bport is a big machine
[03:48:52] <toastydeath> and so loading the flutes down becomes even more important.
[03:49:05] <toastydeath> the less rigidity you have, the more pedantic about chip aspect ratio you need to be.
[03:49:26] <toastydeath> feed controls the power required. RPM and chip load are just things you can screw around with to change the surface finish and efficiency.
[03:49:29] <jmkasunich> so increasing DOC is probably NOT a good plan....
[03:49:47] <jmkasunich> (that is what I was considering doing, so I'd have fewer passes and less wear)
[03:50:05] <toastydeath> i'd make changes in steps, so i didn't get confused when something didn't work
[03:50:15] <toastydeath> first drop the spindle speed until you get .002-.003 per flute
[03:50:27] <toastydeath> then once you know that works, change the depth of cut to .100 or something.
[03:50:45] <jmkasunich> I actually have two kinds of cuts - some are full width, some are part width
[03:50:48] <toastydeath> on a 5/16ths endmill .100 should be fine
[03:50:55] <jmkasunich> the full width ones are the nasty ones
[03:51:00] <toastydeath> air blast
[03:51:12] <toastydeath> or use a squirt bottle and a light stream of coolant
[03:51:28] <jmkasunich> its not a chip clearing thing - only 0.050 deep remember?
[03:51:42] <jmkasunich> chips clear fine - but I swear I can see that cutter bending
[03:52:05] <toastydeath> full width slotting shouldn't be an issue then, and i'd wager it's only an issue because of a too low chip load.
[03:52:19] <jmkasunich> I've been running the slots at a lower feed
[03:52:25] <jmkasunich> sounds like thats the wrong thing to do
[03:52:26] <toastydeath> that's a big problem then.
[03:52:40] <toastydeath> dull cutters need progressively larger feed rates to cut.
[03:52:57] <toastydeath> because the edge is rounded and you have to get enough of the tool into the metal to get around that edge radius.
[03:53:23] <jmkasunich> true
[03:53:28] <jmkasunich> or else it just rubs
[03:53:34] <toastydeath> otherwise the wear rate just gets worse and worse
[03:53:47] <toastydeath> and rubbing in this case really means grinding, because you have abrasive media in contact with the endmill.
[03:54:18] <toastydeath> and that is my sermon on feed rates.
[03:54:23] <toastydeath> =)
[03:54:48] <toastydeath> ALL RISE FOR THE MACHINIST'S CREED
[03:54:51] <toastydeath> etc
[03:54:55] <tom1> niagra' advise for sand cast aluminum 1) machinability charts http://www.niagaracutter.com/techinfo/millhandbook/speedfeed/mach.html 2) chipload charts http://www.niagaracutter.com/techinfo/millhandbook/speedfeed/tooth.html
[03:55:25] <tom1> i'm still reading 'em, but toasty's advise sounds good
[03:56:00] <jmkasunich> just raised the feeds to 5 ipm, and will be lowering speed to 1200 rpm, that will give me 100 SFPM and 0.002 per tooth
[03:56:15] <toastydeath> a+
[03:56:28] <toastydeath> you can basically throw sfm out the window
[03:56:42] <toastydeath> that low it should't really change anything give or take a couple hundred
[03:57:05] <toastydeath> obv. -200 sfm is a real number
[04:09:14] <gnix_oag> pleses add #include <algorithm> #include <stdlib.h> in /emc2/src/rtapi
[04:11:14] <jmkasunich> gnix_oag: stdlib cannot be used in realtime code (RTAPI is realtime stuff)
[04:11:34] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: dunno if its the newly sharpened cutter or the feeds/speeds, but its working nicely
[04:11:53] <gnix_oag> ok
[04:12:12] <toastydeath> if the cutter doesn't dull in 5 parts, it's the feed
[04:12:16] <toastydeath> =)
[04:12:31] <toastydeath> if it does, oh well you tried
[04:14:41] <jmkasunich> heh
[04:14:47] <jmkasunich> #1 done
[04:16:31] <tom1> how do i make the .mo file from the .po? put it into .../emc2-trunk/src/po and run make?
[04:19:15] <gnix_oag> tom1: msgfmt
[04:19:30] <gnix_oag> or poedit
[04:22:13] <tom1> gnix_oag: thanks, i do have msgfmt
[04:24:12] <gnix_oag> tom1: rs274_err.po tcl.po not work
[04:24:45] <tom1> how not work?
[04:25:36] <gnix_oag> unuse
[04:26:32] <gnix_oag> I send you email for new axis.po
[04:27:51] <tom1> xie xie
[04:29:42] <gnix_oag> 就是不起作用
[04:33:30] <jmkasunich> #2 done, no wear visible yet
[04:33:50] <jmkasunich> I eliminated the first roughing pass, so the DOC was higher this time, and it didn't mind
[04:34:18] <toastydeath> a+
[04:38:31] <jmkasunich> took the feed up to 6ipm (from 5) on #3, and it was happy
[04:38:38] <jmkasunich> don't think I want to go higher though
[04:38:50] <toastydeath> no need to push it
[04:38:53] <toastydeath> like you said earlier
[04:44:21] <jmkasunich> #3 done ;-)
[04:44:44] <jmkasunich> part time is down, thanks to the higher feeds and one less facing pass
[04:45:02] <jmkasunich> better tool life _and_ better productivity - gotta love it
[04:45:06] <jmkasunich> thanks guys!
[04:46:21] <toastydeath> np
[04:46:41] <tom1> gnix_oag: http://imagebin.org/15801 :-) 非常好
[04:46:45] <jmkasunich> I think the rest can wait till tomorrow (after midnight here)
[04:52:56] <tom1> use msgfmt to make the .mo from the .po, then create the local directory & put the .mo there, then 'export LANGUAGE=zh; LANG=zh; scripts/emc', then pick sim-axis... and 'hao hao hao hao' you got Chinese EMC2 and AXIS (for 'hao hao hao hao' see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOyj4ciJk34)
[05:14:52] <gnix_oag> tom1: 你没有安装简体的字体
[05:16:04] <tom1> 我需要俏麗的字體
[05:16:09] <tom1> ;)
[05:16:46] <gnix_oag> wqy 的很好
[05:17:25] <tom1> AH! i used big5 ! doh!
[05:17:40] <gnix_oag> 我的英文字体很宽,不记得怎么搞了
[05:18:50] <tom1> 我将发现被简化的字体
[05:19:03] <tom1> xie xie nin!
[05:19:16] <tom1> i was using the wrong fonts!
[05:38:25] <a-l-p-h-a> chinese?
[05:38:53] <a-l-p-h-a> weird when it uses ascii to try and convert
[05:42:33] <tom1> hmmm, cant get AXIS to use the fonts all other apps seem to be using. eg: irc uses a pretty Chinese font, axis uses ugly stick figure Chinese font this is from terminal (gedit:28393): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library. Using the fallback 'C' locale.
[06:01:56] <tomp> loaded gnome Chinese support package, restarted X, same ugly stick font in Axis, great fonts in gedit, irc, firefox, desktop... save this for another day. goodnite all :)
[06:11:01] <fenn> tomp: axis uses tkinter, not gtk
[06:11:13] <tomp> so?
[06:11:22] <fenn> well.. tk is usually ugly :(
[06:11:33] <tomp> how to tell tkinter not to be so ugly?
[06:11:47] <tomp> "stop being ugly" ?
[06:11:55] <tomp> or louder :)
[06:12:42] <tomp> but thx, i understand now
[06:12:48] <fenn> i think you can use the x resources database
[06:15:03] <fenn> do somethiing like *Axis*Font: -*-courier-bold-r-*--100-*-*-*-*-*-*-1
[06:15:24] <fenn> stick that in a file and do xrdb -merge <file>
[12:09:57] <sCOTTo> hey guys - anyone here to talk to me about cad and files and stuff?
[12:13:36] <sCOTTo> Anyone???
[12:13:37] <BigJohnT> what did you find out
[12:14:05] <sCOTTo> not much - he wants to convert to STEP and IGES - not too worried about GCODE...
[12:15:05] <BigJohnT> If his version of ACAD won't do it then the only thing I know about is high dollar software
[12:15:29] <sCOTTo> really?
[12:15:45] <sCOTTo> there i snothing written to do it without high dollar s/w?
[12:16:05] <BigJohnT> not that I know of
[12:17:03] <BigJohnT> you might try on the #cam
[12:17:42] <sCOTTo> thanks
[12:18:06] <sCOTTo> whois BigJohnT
[12:18:21] <sCOTTo> lol ur on cam already! hehehe
[12:18:43] <BigJohnT> yea, it's another favorite spot to hang out
[12:21:33] <dmess> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[12:23:22] <sCOTTo> dmess: i dont understand what you mean.... lol
[12:43:18] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all! It appears we are having some problems making our EU and US hubs speak with eachother, I'm going to do some noisy re-hubbing and hopefully we'll be back to normal shortly! Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
[12:45:20] <christle> [Global Notice] Hi all! It appears we are having some problems making our EU and US hubs speak with eachother, I'm going to do some noisy re-hubbing and hopefully we'll be back to normal shortly! Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
[12:53:18] <gnix_oag> ptc pro/e for linux
[12:56:34] <BigJohnT> pro/e for linux?
[13:10:22] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, Sorry about the disturbance there -- all should be back to normal-ish now. Have a good day.
[13:27:47] <gnix_oag> BigJohnT: http://www.linuxfans.org/nuke/modules/Forums/files/t_screenshot-1_136.png
[13:29:23] <gnix_oag> http://forum.ubuntu.org.cn/viewtopic.php?t=3425&highlight=
[13:29:35] <gnix_oag> hehe
[15:09:19] <dmess> cat did a tour on the key board last nite bt the looks of it..
[15:21:00] <alex_joni> dmess: you mean that wasn't you?
[15:21:09] <alex_joni> finally started to make sense..
[15:23:00] <dmess> yeah... go figure....
[15:23:17] <dmess> keyboarding is about as good as mine
[15:27:02] <dmess> jmk... you up and about??
[15:28:03] <JymmmmEMC> not before noon
[15:28:11] <jmkasunich> heh
[15:28:25] <jmkasunich> 33 mins before noon
[15:28:43] <jmkasunich> a new record!
[15:28:46] <JymmmmEMC> jmkasunich: you sicj? should I call an ambulance for ya?
[15:28:51] <JymmmmEMC> sick
[15:29:02] <jmkasunich> nah
[15:29:13] <jmkasunich> its springtime
[15:29:18] <JymmmmEMC> ah
[15:29:43] <jmkasunich> that big yellow ball in the sky (that never appears during a cleveland winter) shined into my window and woke me up
[15:29:47] <jmkasunich> damn ball
[15:29:52] <dmess> how'd you last few parts go .. or have you made them yet??
[15:30:03] <jmkasunich> I did three last night - worked nice
[15:30:20] <jmkasunich> I haven't done any today yet, I have some errands to run
[15:30:24] <dmess> good to hear.. learn anything in the process??
[15:30:43] <jmkasunich> yeah, keep a minimum of 0.002 chip per tooth ;-)
[15:30:52] <JymmmmEMC> lol
[15:31:18] <dmess> oh hey baby speed is your friend in aluminum
[15:31:40] <dmess> or rather FEED
[15:31:44] <jmkasunich> thats what I thought, but in this case, dropping the speed is what it took to get the chip load up
[15:31:45] <jmkasunich> right'
[15:32:17] <jmkasunich> I'm tempted to bump the speed up again, and raise the feed to match
[15:32:26] <jmkasunich> but that will be later this afternoon
[15:32:34] <dmess> at the sfm you were running it really couldnt hurt... and would deffine=itly help tool life
[15:33:24] <dmess> if its working and you only have a few to go.. wait till the last one then bump it to the limit
[15:33:32] <jmkasunich> I went from 2400 RPM and 2 to 4 ipm to 1200 RPM and 6 ipm
[15:33:46] <jmkasunich> dmess: thats silly
[15:33:53] <dmess> so max is 2400 and 12 ipm
[15:33:55] <jmkasunich> the reason to bump it is to make the parts get done faster
[15:34:28] <jmkasunich> I'll probably sneak up on it - do one at 1800 and 9 ipm, see how that goes
[15:34:35] <dmess> well safely correctly is my moto/creed
[15:34:54] <dmess> you have something you KNOW works.... work it
[15:35:43] <jmkasunich> ruining the last one is just as bad as ruining one in the middle
[15:35:56] <jmkasunich> if I bump up and there are problems, I know I can go back to 1200/6ipm
[15:36:05] <dmess> but it may also wipe out your set/u
[15:36:10] <dmess> set-up
[15:36:47] <dmess> i hate setting up again for the last 2 parts
[15:36:50] <jmkasunich> true - but I'm developing more confidence in the setup
[15:37:15] <dmess> dont get over confident
[15:37:20] <jmkasunich> I have 1450, 1800, and 2400 available (this machine uses v-belts for speed)
[15:38:08] <dmess> gottcha
[15:38:17] <jmkasunich> my past experience has been that increasing speed and keeping feed per tooth constant actually helps - maybe at higher speed the weight of the machine helps smooth things out
[15:38:58] <dmess> well its actually the feed thats loading up the 'weak' machine
[15:39:08] <jmkasunich> yes and no
[15:39:20] <dmess> and keeping it from rattling itself to bits
[15:39:25] <jmkasunich> feed determines the average force, which "loads up" and deflects the machine
[15:39:54] <jmkasunich> if feed per tooth is the same, force per tooth is the same - more speed means more teeth per minute and more _average_ force
[15:39:57] <dmess> ti tightens it up for lack of a better analogy
[15:40:01] <jmkasunich> but the individual forces are what makes things vibrate
[15:40:19] <BigJohnT> you ever use and variable helix mills?
[15:40:24] <BigJohnT> they are nice
[15:40:25] <jmkasunich> nope
[15:40:41] <dmess> yes the can pitch the chips
[15:40:52] <jmkasunich> seems like they'd only help for profiling
[15:41:03] <BigJohnT> they cut down on vibration
[15:41:09] <dmess> slotting is magic too
[15:41:10] <BigJohnT> great for pockets too
[15:41:25] <BigJohnT> I use lakeshore carbide
[15:41:35] <dmess> hanita and international mini-cut are good ones
[15:41:47] <jmkasunich> I had some 1/2" high helix three-flutes that I picked up surplus - those were _nice_
[15:41:52] <jmkasunich> unfortunately I broke them
[15:42:00] <jmkasunich> this was on the van norman, not the shoptask
[15:42:07] <BigJohnT> lakeshore puts a radius on the edge and most others only chamfer the edge
[15:42:20] <jmkasunich> the collet wasn't tight enough, and the high helix made it pull out and get deeper
[15:42:21] <BigJohnT> the radius lasts longer
[15:42:27] <dmess> 3 flute IS the dream cutter for aluminum
[15:42:28] <BigJohnT> ouch
[15:43:06] <jmkasunich> the VN is so rigid I didn't have a clue what was happening until snap - it was the better part of an inch deep by then
[15:43:07] <dmess> a little SUCK out eh'
[15:43:34] <BigJohnT> so limit your cuts to 3/4" deep now
[15:43:36] <jmkasunich> the collets on that machine suck
[15:43:39] <BigJohnT> on the vn
[15:43:53] <BigJohnT> what kind are they
[15:44:02] <jmkasunich> 5V
[15:44:12] <JymmmmEMC> (jacobs) lol
[15:44:21] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/vannorman/VN_Spindle.htm
[15:44:37] <jmkasunich> someday I want to make a new spindle for that machine, with an R8 in it
[15:45:02] <jmkasunich> as spindles go its not that complicated - no splines or anything
[15:45:03] <BigJohnT> put a RapidSwitch 200 in it
[15:45:38] <BigJohnT> once you set your Z on each tool you can take them out and put them back as the job progresses
[15:46:37] <BigJohnT> sometimes you can find the master with your shank and just insert that
[15:48:06] <BigJohnT> here's one for the r8
[15:48:07] <BigJohnT> http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/store/agora.cgi?user2=yes&cart_id=1905425.4183*582LM7&p_id=20995&xm=on&ppinc=1a
[15:50:42] <jmkasunich> since the VN isn't CNC, Z repeatibility isn't much of an issue
[15:50:57] <jmkasunich> I rarely use end mills in it anyway. mostly use it for facemilling
[15:51:01] <BigJohnT> ok, I forgot it was a manual
[15:51:45] <jmkasunich> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/Facemil3.jpg
[15:52:07] <BigJohnT> Sweet!
[15:52:39] <jmkasunich> I did this drawing several years ago when I first started thinking about an R8 conversion
[15:52:41] <jmkasunich> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2002_retired_files/SPINDLE.gif
[15:53:23] <BigJohnT> nice drawing
[15:54:01] <BigJohnT> I guess the toughest part is grinding the taper in the inside
[15:54:12] <jmkasunich> yep
[15:54:41] <jmkasunich> drilling the drawbar hole wouldn't be a picnic either
[15:54:44] <BigJohnT> only 12" long short and ridgid
[15:54:58] <jmkasunich> yeah, they are great machines for their size
[15:55:10] <BigJohnT> but that does not have to be very precise
[15:55:13] <jmkasunich> only 1800 lbs, but significantly more rigid that a bport
[15:56:11] <BigJohnT> what kind of spindle speeds do you have on the VN?
[15:56:21] <jmkasunich> 70 to 1400 in 9 steps
[15:56:53] <jmkasunich> 1.5HP spindle motor, I put a VFD on it
[15:57:05] <BigJohnT> cool
[15:57:15] <jmkasunich> the machine has taken cuts that made the VFD trip on overload, and the machine didn't care
[15:57:35] <BigJohnT> well, TTUL John nap time for me
[15:57:50] <jmkasunich> nap time? I just woke up!
[15:57:58] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich <== night owl
[15:58:05] <BigJohnT> I've been up since 5am
[15:58:08] <jmkasunich> ouch
[15:58:22] <BigJohnT> Saturday and Sunday I get a nap
[15:58:22] <jmkasunich> I better head off to the bank before they close
[15:58:29] <BigJohnT> see you later
[16:00:13] <dmess> looks like a nice machine for hogging Jmk
[16:09:17] <dmess> looks like it might be a flying day..
[16:11:07] <dmess> WSW @ 6 km/h.... not our ideal launch direction but we can work with it...
[16:17:40] <dmess> now to locate all my gear...wing check... bucket check...x-tra biners check... bridle check...vario check... gps n/a - staying local... looks like we can lock and load...
[16:35:52] <Dallur> dmess: glider, hang*, para* ?
[16:45:42] <Alphonse_> woops
[16:46:59] <Alphonse_> hi! I am having trouble using the parallel port. it doesn't seem to be talking. I've read the FAQ, but it didn't help. Can someone point me to a good place to troubleshoot my parallel port?
[16:47:34] <Alphonse_> and I've tried to load par_port in the config file too.
[16:50:43] <dmess> para.. but my buddy has a few hangies i fly reglarily too.... my vario seems to be acting flacky on reset..
[16:51:49] <dmess> Dallur .. you Fly?? real aircraft...need no engines...
[16:55:22] <_Alphonse_> sorry! I got kicked off again.
[16:56:24] <dmess> looks like i'm doing the annual inspection this afternoon so i can fly tomorrow...wing inly had 6 flights in 2007... NOT good for her or me...although i did fly ray's MAX 3-4 times as well as to solo 2 x... for a total of 6.5 hrs...so not really a BAD year in southern ontario..
[16:56:55] <dmess> the Solo
[16:57:27] <_Alphonse_> Ontario?
[16:57:49] <dmess> 4.8 hrs on varous hang-gliders too
[16:57:50] <_Alphonse_> you have a picture of the Solo?
[16:58:21] <Dallur> dmess: I flew hang gliders for a couple of years, some ultralights and then my dad and brother are both commercial pilots so I get to play with big toys some times :)
[16:58:23] <dmess> hmmm chk out www.uflyontaio.com
[16:58:36] <_Alphonse_> thanks
[16:59:28] <dmess> there should be some pics of it in the gallery.. i believe its still for sale... test driving.. you know...
[17:00:16] <dmess> i like the smaller powered things... i want a float capable super ultralight..
[17:00:18] <_Alphonse_> cool!
[17:00:42] <dmess> we have NO hills to hop off... so we TOW...
[17:00:44] <_Alphonse_> I like even smaller things... like model aircraft. (I am afraid of heights)
[17:01:21] <_Alphonse_> ah. finally, the server kills my ghost
[17:01:36] <dmess> the best winches on the planet are in southern ontario... ive worked on the design of 2 of the 4
[17:01:38] <_Alphonse_> tow by a truck?
[17:02:23] <dmess> height isnt an issue.. so am i... after 80 feet the perspective is gone.. speed is your frien... ; )
[17:02:43] <dmess> no hydrostatic winch
[17:02:58] <_Alphonse_> is there specific place you can fly?
[17:03:32] <dmess> as in?? controlled .. NO.. we are in VFR teritory
[17:03:56] <_Alphonse_> dmess, did anyone reply my question (as Alphonse_) before I (as _Alphonse_) show up?
[17:04:11] <_Alphonse_> I was looking for a place to fly large model aircraft.
[17:04:28] <_Alphonse_> and I don't know the area in Ontario.
[17:04:38] <dmess> and 1 site is designated a training area with gliders on the map... BUT every one comes to train in our airspace...
[17:04:49] <_Alphonse_> I know a few of my internet freidn there, and I like to go there.
[17:05:01] <_Alphonse_> oh.
[17:05:14] <_Alphonse_> what does VFR stand for?
[17:05:21] <dmess> not good when we can have up to 5000 feet of string attatched to a glider on downwind..
[17:05:33] <dmess> visual flight rules
[17:05:51] <dmess> where are you??
[17:05:54] <JymmmmEMC> aka fly by the seat of your pants (no instuments =)
[17:06:29] <dmess> vario for alt... otherwise its eyes WIDE OPEN ALL THE TIME...
[17:07:03] <dmess> gps for positional airspace if your really close to an a/p
[17:07:08] <_Alphonse_> I like to keep my feets on the ground. :p
[17:07:26] <_Alphonse_> GPS gives about 15m of accuracy.
[17:07:32] <dmess> i like to have em in the air
[17:08:00] <_Alphonse_> Northern CA
[17:08:12] <_Alphonse_> ah. my second ghost got killed as well
[17:08:27] <JymmmmEMC> _Alphonse_: you can always kill them yourself.
[17:08:34] <_Alphonse_> how?
[17:08:43] <dmess> hell if im 15m into bad air space and turn around i dont think they'll be scrambling the cf-18's
[17:08:54] <_Alphonse_> HAHHAH!
[17:09:20] <_Alphonse_> you are too slow to be shot down by cf-18's!
[17:09:22] <JymmmmEMC> _Alphonse_: /msg nickserv help
[17:09:34] <_Alphonse_> thanks, JymmmmEMC
[17:09:55] <_Alphonse_> I'll kill myself so no one answer my qyestions while I am kicked off.
[17:09:59] <dmess> yes but 1 pass and his turbulance would WIPE me out of the skY
[17:10:12] <_Alphonse_> my router is not liking IRC.
[17:10:31] <_Alphonse_> can you fly up to 5000ft?
[17:12:33] <dmess> a friend made it to 10000' last summer only stoped cuz thats our cieling....he said it was a BOOMING thermal kicked his asss and 20 minutes after he landed it turned into an anvil
[17:13:08] <_Alphonse_> WOO!
[17:13:23] <dmess> to about 75000' he is military pilot so ONLY flys by the rules or he can lose his real job
[17:14:29] <_Alphonse_> what does he fly?
[17:14:38] <JymmmmEMC> 75K?!?!?!??!?! Got Gravity??
[17:14:44] <dmess> but to see where he came out of turn to that was awe inspining....
[17:15:00] <dmess> its calle cloud suck
[17:15:03] <dmess> called
[17:15:29] <_Alphonse_> is it a jet engine plane?
[17:16:13] <dmess> paraglider.... he didnt go to 75000' the cloud did...
[17:16:29] <JymmmmEMC> oh
[17:16:32] <dmess> no engine aircraft
[17:16:42] <_Alphonse_> ah
[17:17:17] <dmess> his vario showed some spots of 1800fpm UP
[17:17:46] <dmess> spiking to 2800 for up to 5-7 seconds
[17:18:23] <_Alphonse_> hum. the emc2 update puts in a new version of config file...
[17:18:27] <dmess> its an elevator ride to heaven when and if you find it
[17:21:59] <Alphonse> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
[17:22:10] <Alphonse> what did I missed?
[17:22:58] <Alphonse> ah it worked!
[17:23:24] <Alphonse> what did I miss after "elevator ride to heaven"?
[17:24:04] <dmess> nothing
[17:24:19] <Alphonse> good. :)
[17:24:36] <Alphonse> how much does it cost to maintain the plane?
[17:25:57] <dmess> maintain... my para has cost me 2 new carabiners when i bought it 9 yrs ago...
[17:26:39] <_Alphonse_> darn/
[17:27:09] <dmess> Ray's falcon 170 may have cost a few hundred dolars in down tubes but we,ve taught 50-75 ppl to fly on that wing
[17:27:16] <_Alphonse_> why am I keep getting disconnected. :(
[17:27:36] <_Alphonse_> so it is pretty low maintance cost...
[17:27:43] <_Alphonse_> nice.
[17:27:53] <_Alphonse_> many of my things will break just sitting there. :)
[17:28:01] <dmess> the cheapest thing that the FAA still regulates
[17:28:10] <_Alphonse_> ah
[17:28:47] <dmess> you have to have certain licences to fly abofe 750' agl in canada
[17:29:16] <_Alphonse_> how much is the training?
[17:30:27] <dmess> our place for $1500 and the purchase of a new glider.. you get about 2 seasons of flying for the bang
[17:30:47] <dmess> gliders run from 1800-4500
[17:31:01] <Alphonse_> ahhh!
[17:31:21] <Alphonse_> I want to learn to fly!
[17:31:36] <dmess> but understand NO-ONE in ther right mind will sell a newbe a 4500 dollar glider... he'd be the next statistic
[17:32:01] <Alphonse_> I like that odd! hahaha
[17:33:17] <dmess> so donate time and work it off that how i did it... i knew nothing about these towing winches when i showed up... but by the end of my 1st visit i knew how it worked and WHY the needed it - step towing -
[17:34:31] <_Alphonse_> sorry!
[17:34:39] <_Alphonse_> I have to find out how to stay connected.
[17:35:10] <_Alphonse_> I'll come back later.
[17:35:18] <_Alphonse_> I still need to fix my parallel port.
[17:35:26] <_Alphonse_> it just won't talk.
[17:35:42] <dmess> swap connections on the m/b
[17:36:08] <_Alphonse_> which connection?
[17:36:17] <_Alphonse_> parallel port or the ethernet?
[17:36:19] <_Alphonse_> :)
[17:36:30] <jmkasunich> are you sure you are using the right address?
[17:36:32] <_Alphonse_> the disconnect is probably the router.
[17:36:37] <_Alphonse_> I am pretty sure.
[17:36:42] <_Alphonse_> I check the BIOS,
[17:36:46] <_Alphonse_> and also the config file.
[17:36:55] <_Alphonse_> and I updated the emc2 just now
[17:37:00] <dmess> pretty sure.... is a no
[17:37:25] <dmess> too many changes all at once.
[17:37:26] <jmkasunich> somewhere you have a line that says "loadrt hal_parport cfg="<some_port_address>"
[17:37:35] <jmkasunich> the address might be 0x03f8 or whatever
[17:37:44] <jmkasunich> it MUST match the address of your parallel port
[17:37:46] <_Alphonse_> I checked it is 0x3BC and changed it in the con fig file.
[17:37:56] <_Alphonse_> checked the pin out.
[17:38:09] <_Alphonse_> do a loadrt probe_parport
[17:38:41] <_Alphonse_> put the pin on a real scope.
[17:39:28] <_Alphonse_> hello?!
[17:39:39] <_Alphonse_> please let me stay connect!
[17:40:11] <_Alphonse_> please let me stay connect!
[17:41:15] <_Alphonse_> hello?>
[17:44:24] <_Alphonse_> AH!
[17:44:35] <_Alphonse_> sorry!
[17:44:38] <_Alphonse_> I can't help it!
[17:44:52] <alex_joni> well.. it was fine, until you closed it..
[17:44:55] <jmkasunich> interesting - this time you have a different ID
[17:45:04] <jmkasunich> last time: n=raytang_@hypaul1.engr.ucdavis.edu
[17:45:12] <_Alphonse_> anyway, I checked the BIOS... it is 0x3BC
[17:45:13] <jmkasunich> this time: n=raytang_@adsl-75-25-46-4.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net
[17:45:20] <alex_joni> yup, probably a DSL reconnect
[17:45:25] <alex_joni> new ip address
[17:45:34] <_Alphonse_> yeah, I have to run to another computer... but this means I am away from my machien that has EMC2 on it.
[17:45:44] <_Alphonse_> sorry!
[17:45:50] <jmkasunich> are both machines in the same building?
[17:45:53] <_Alphonse_> thank for your understanding!
[17:46:06] <_Alphonse_> yep. this machine is actually a wireless.
[17:46:11] <jmkasunich> one address is at a university, the other is DSL (probably residential)
[17:46:15] <_Alphonse_> the wire machine keeps cutting me off!
[17:46:26] <_Alphonse_> so I have to run back and forth now. :(
[17:46:59] <jmkasunich> why is one machine connecting thru ucdavis.edu and the other thru what looks like residential DSL?
[17:47:02] <_Alphonse_> I hope this stays connect... I am almost out of range.
[17:47:52] <_Alphonse_> yep. someone seems to find a way to do a remote sharing on their wireless... I am sharing the connection over remote desktop
[17:48:24] <_Alphonse_> ok, I am using this IRC program over remote desktop.
[17:48:34] <_Alphonse_> ... it doesn't make sense does it?
[17:48:42] <jmkasunich> no ;-)
[17:48:50] <_Alphonse_> should I try again?
[17:48:50] <alex_joni> it doesn't have to :)
[17:48:55] <_Alphonse_> HAHHAH!
[17:48:55] <jmkasunich> are you at ucdavis? or at home?
[17:48:59] <_Alphonse_> sorry!
[17:49:03] <_Alphonse_> I am still at UC Davis.
[17:49:06] <_Alphonse_> right now!
[17:49:17] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: I'm sure you'll figure it out
[17:49:22] <jmkasunich> so the sbcglobal you are using is NOT your own ISP?
[17:49:28] <_Alphonse_> and it is the UC Davis computer keeps killing me
[17:49:31] <alex_joni> we can be of help regarding emc
[17:50:00] <_Alphonse_> SBC is my home computer ISP.
[17:50:01] <eric_U> why does comcast stink so bad?
[17:50:23] <_Alphonse_> I wish I have comcast. they don't do it in this area.
[17:50:26] <_Alphonse_> my home area
[17:50:30] <_Alphonse_> anyway, back to EMC
[17:50:43] <_Alphonse_> I need it to work... but parallel port just doesn't like to talk.
[17:50:45] <eric_U> about half the internet is not available right no
[17:50:46] <eric_U> w
[17:51:21] <_Alphonse_> on the Dell PC, I checked the BIOS to be 0x3BC.
[17:51:24] <_Alphonse_> it is the default.
[17:51:38] <_Alphonse_> another one of my ghost.
[17:51:59] <_Alphonse_> anyway, I am using the sample-config of the stepper_mm
[17:52:05] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: some parallel ports need another module before
[17:52:14] <_Alphonse_> so I changed the core_stepper.hal to match the address
[17:52:33] <_Alphonse_> I tried putting the loadrt probe_parport also.
[17:52:50] <alex_joni> any difference?
[17:52:59] <JymmmmEMC> ssh -D ftw!!! =)
[17:53:02] <_Alphonse_> oh? alex_joni, which one? so the default config still need more work?
[17:53:32] <_Alphonse_> JymmmmEMC, are you hacking my computer?
[17:53:48] <alex_joni> I was meaning try to add probe_parport, and see if you get any difference..
[17:54:00] <_Alphonse_> nope. it didn't work.
[17:54:05] <_Alphonse_> I put it... let me check...
[17:54:06] <JymmmmEMC> _Alphonse_: Nope, from what I hear, you're doing a fine job of that all on your own ;)
[17:55:05] <_Alphonse_> I put it in core_stepper.hal, didn't work, and also tried in standard_pinout.hal, and it didn't work.
[17:55:19] <_Alphonse_> JymmmEMC, yeah, it seems I am staying connected!
[17:55:35] <_Alphonse_> you should set BIOS to EPP, right?
[17:55:50] <klickrr> just got my pico systems universal stepper control plus gecko board... now i only have like 4 thousand wires to hookup, fun :) Gotta get a box to put this all in first
[17:56:32] <_Alphonse_> klickrr, I had to use something given to me.. so I can't buy a pico system. :p
[17:56:49] <_Alphonse_> but, it still takes a stepper signal like pico.
[17:57:07] <_Alphonse_> but right now, I have it hooked up to an oscilloscope.
[17:57:07] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: you need to place it before the loadrt hal_parport line
[17:57:19] <_Alphonse_> and I have the right pin! pin 3
[17:57:26] <LawrenceG> _Alphonse_, try SPP or bi-directional if you are just using step and dir from the port
[17:58:17] <_Alphonse_> alex, yes, I put it before loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x03BC"
[17:58:18] <LawrenceG> _Alphonse_, if you have a smart board like the pico attached you may need EPP
[17:58:48] <_Alphonse_> I am on EPP now. I tried ECP also. but didn't try bi-directional.
[17:58:58] <_Alphonse_> should I try it? I'll run and try it.
[17:59:10] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: you're trying to load a ppmc board?
[17:59:31] <alex_joni> Jon Elson had a small program on his site that tests communication, you should try getting that one to work first
[17:59:33] <LawrenceG> its unusual for the port to be at 0x3BC... that was the typical address when it was on a mono graphics card
[17:59:44] <alex_joni> I think it even does something to the EPP port
[18:00:04] <_Alphonse_> alex, nope. it is just the standard parallel port on the motherboard
[18:00:29] <alex_joni> then why do you want EPP?
[18:00:48] <alex_joni> standard address for parport is 0x378 usually
[18:00:54] <alex_joni> and the second one at 0x278
[18:00:57] <_Alphonse_> I read one of the archeived files on EMC site, and it was said to use EPP
[18:01:11] <_Alphonse_> yep, this computer defaults to 0x3BC
[18:01:14] <_Alphonse_> i can change that too.
[18:01:41] <_Alphonse_> I am on Jon Elson's site... let me see if I can learn somethign there.
[18:02:09] <_Alphonse_> so I should be on bi-directional?
[18:02:10] <_Alphonse_> ok
[18:02:26] <fenn> epp/ecp "should" work - it acts the same as a bidirectional port unless you use fancy multi-byte writes
[18:02:53] <_Alphonse_> I've tried bo EPP and ECP. but haven't tired bi-directional
[18:02:56] <awallin_emc> what's the difference between FERROR and MIN_FERROR? what units are they in?
[18:03:09] <alex_joni> awallin_emc: ini units
[18:03:14] <fenn> awallin_emc: ferror is the max error allowed at max velocity
[18:03:22] <alex_joni> one is for halted, the other for max vel.
[18:03:43] <fenn> the allowed error increases proportional to velocity
[18:04:03] <fenn> should be mm/s or in/s
[18:04:06] <_Alphonse_> alex, which on Jon's website is a test program? it seems the listing are all hardware.
[18:04:19] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: his website is only about his hardware
[18:04:27] <alex_joni> which you don't have, so don't waste time on it
[18:04:30] <_Alphonse_> oh! found it!
[18:04:38] <_Alphonse_> ohhh.
[18:04:40] <_Alphonse_> I see.
[18:04:49] <fenn> er... mm and in, not /s
[18:05:36] <_Alphonse_> should Stepconf work right the way when you test the x-axis?
[18:07:07] <_Alphonse_> hello?
[18:07:12] <_Alphonse_> am I still connected?
[18:07:21] <LawrenceG> yup
[18:07:24] <_Alphonse_> good!
[18:07:29] <_Alphonse_> thanks!
[18:07:53] <fenn> _Alphonse_: if you're debugging the parport by seeing whether the motors move, maybe that's the wrong way to do it
[18:07:55] <dmess> bbl
[18:08:08] <fenn> i would get a multimeter and look at the voltage
[18:08:25] <_Alphonse_> actually, I have it on an oscillocope.
[18:08:29] <_Alphonse_> pin 3
[18:08:29] <fenn> ok
[18:08:37] <fenn> how are you testing?
[18:08:42] <_Alphonse_> that's why I feel sad!
[18:08:56] <_Alphonse_> I can't see anything sqare wave coming out!
[18:09:08] <fenn> what do you do in emc/hal to test the port?
[18:09:15] <_Alphonse_> fenn, I first use the Stepconf to try on the x-axis.
[18:09:23] <awallin_emc> how many encoder counts do people usually set DEADBAND to? I now get humming and hissing, perhaps it's too low?
[18:09:33] <fenn> awallin_emc: at least 2
[18:09:36] <_Alphonse_> then, I tried using the stepper_mm and change the config files.
[18:10:25] <fenn> _Alphonse_: do you know how to use halcmd?
[18:10:28] <_Alphonse_> fenn, I've chaned/checked the BIOS, the address, do the loadrt probe_parport, etc.
[18:11:13] <_Alphonse_> fenn, actually no. I tried that to unload the pin and toggle it, but it doesn't change. so I still don't know if I am just not doing it right, or something is worng.
[18:12:10] <fenn> well, you can see what hal thinks the value of the pin is with 'halcmd show parport*'
[18:12:28] <fenn> er, halcmd show pin parport*
[18:12:55] <_Alphonse_> should I do it on the command prompt?
[18:12:59] <fenn> yes
[18:13:21] <_Alphonse_> ok.
[18:13:56] <_Alphonse_> bad. I got lots of messages
[18:14:23] <_Alphonse_> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
[18:14:43] <_Alphonse_> so the rtapi kernel module is not loaded.
[18:14:49] <fenn> what does 'uname -r' say?
[18:15:29] <_Alphonse_> 2.6.15-magma
[18:16:06] <_Alphonse_> using /etc/init.d/realtime status...
[18:16:12] <awallin_emc> shouldn't hitting the ESC key result in an E-stop by default? (I'm using AXIS)
[18:16:12] <_Alphonse_> everything is not loaded.
[18:16:53] <fenn> _Alphonse_: this is with emc running?
[18:17:12] <_Alphonse_> nope. emc not running.
[18:17:16] <_Alphonse_> I reloaded the moudle just now
[18:17:28] <_Alphonse_> by using /etc/init.d/realtime restart
[18:17:32] <fenn> well, start emc or stepconf or whatever you're testing with
[18:17:43] <_Alphonse_> and call halcmd show pin parport*
[18:17:47] <fenn> yes
[18:17:52] <jmkasunich> awallin_emc: esc aborts motion, but leave amps enabled, etc
[18:17:59] <_Alphonse_> and it returns, well, empty. here;
[18:18:06] <_Alphonse_> Component Pins:
[18:18:13] <_Alphonse_> Owner Type Dir Value Name
[18:18:16] <fenn> try just halcmd show pin parport (no star)
[18:18:17] <_Alphonse_> and that's it.
[18:18:23] <_Alphonse_> ok
[18:18:30] <_Alphonse_> same respond.
[18:18:36] <alex_joni> if you onle restarted realtime, then parport is not loaded
[18:18:40] <jmkasunich> the levels of "on-ness" are estopped (everything off) , machine on, and moving - esc takes you from moving to machine on
[18:18:55] <_Alphonse_> alex, OK.
[18:18:55] <alex_joni> you can load it by: halcmd loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378"
[18:18:58] <awallin_emc> jmkasunich: ok... another question: what's the time-constant fir the I-term in PID? I've tuned my pressure controller at work and it seems the time constant is important
[18:19:07] <jmkasunich> seconds
[18:19:11] <alex_joni> but you still need to set up threads, add functions to the threads, etc
[18:19:19] <_Alphonse_> should I unload, then start stepconf?
[18:19:27] <fenn> yes
[18:19:38] <jmkasunich> IOW, an I gain of 1 means that an error of 1.0 that lats 1.0 seconds will result in 1.0 of output
[18:19:50] <jmkasunich> s/lats/lasts
[18:20:29] <awallin_emc> jmkasunich: ok. trying to tune a motor without load here. maybe not worth it as it has to be re-tuned when in the machine anyway...
[18:20:36] <_Alphonse_> OK, I started stepconf wizard, then called halcmd show pin parport.
[18:20:56] <_Alphonse_> but it gives me the same RTAPI: Error: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
[18:21:01] <jmkasunich> awallin_emc: can be a good learning experience though, if you have the time and don't mind doing it over again later
[18:21:02] <_Alphonse_> werid.
[18:21:25] <fenn> _Alphonse_: i havent used stepconf, but i think you have to go through all the screens to get to the 'test axis' screen
[18:21:40] <_Alphonse_> fenn, oh. I can do that.
[18:21:44] <awallin_emc> jmkasunich: yeah, trying to get some reasonable values so I can dry-run the whole shebang (servos, VFD, spindle encoder, coolant, jogwheel etc)
[18:22:03] <jmkasunich> _Alphonse_ fenn why is stepconf suddenly in the picture
[18:22:09] <jmkasunich> I thought he was trying to test a parport
[18:22:26] <fenn> jmkasunich: because it's easier than setting up threads and functions
[18:22:46] <jmkasunich> if you say so
[18:22:49] <fenn> * fenn shrugs
[18:22:53] <_Alphonse_> ah! a good sign!
[18:23:01] <jmkasunich> (I have no idea what stepconf actually does, so I'd be working blind)
[18:23:08] <fenn> me either
[18:23:29] <_Alphonse_> OK, after getting to testing x-axis, actually getting to "Test this axis", and do the halcmd show pin parport, I got a long list!
[18:23:30] <jmkasunich> if you don't know what it does, why did you tell him to use it?
[18:23:38] <fenn> perhaps its a case of the blind leading the clueless.. or is it the other way around?
[18:23:40] <JymmmmEMC> lol
[18:24:15] <fenn> _Alphonse_: so now look for the pin number in that list and see if TRUE/FALSE matches up with reality
[18:24:21] <_Alphonse_> hahah! thanks fenn, JymmmmEMC. I wish I can do better with Stepper_mm... but for now.. here is what I see.
[18:24:33] <fenn> uh, please dont paste all the lines in the channel
[18:24:49] <_Alphonse_> on the step pin... pin 3 it said:
[18:25:11] <_Alphonse_> 6 bit IN FALSE parport.0.pin-03-out <== step
[18:25:20] <_Alphonse_> how should I decode that?
[18:25:31] <JymmmmEMC> is there any rule-of-thumb to go by when you need to mill a round/rectangular hole for something to fit in; gap wise? pilot lamp in metal, plastic in plastic, etc
[18:25:42] <fenn> FALSE means the pin should be at 0 volts
[18:26:01] <JymmmmEMC> so if a pilot lamp is .750" what size the hole should be
[18:26:20] <_Alphonse_> fenn, multimeter said it is high at 4.81 volt!
[18:26:26] <_Alphonse_> on pin 3!
[18:26:27] <dmess> +.01/-0
[18:26:51] <_Alphonse_> yep
[18:26:52] <JymmmmEMC> dmess: total, or per side?
[18:27:05] <_Alphonse_> now and 4.82 volt. :)
[18:27:14] <_Alphonse_> this is bad
[18:27:16] <jmkasunich> _Alphonse_: I bet you have the wrong port address
[18:27:22] <jmkasunich> I don't care what the BIOS says
[18:27:24] <dmess> total is best... and they SHOULD all fit inter-chagably
[18:28:06] <_Alphonse_> jmkasunich, should I restart to change the address to the EMC default 0x387?
[18:28:09] <dmess> lamp is punch... size the die...
[18:28:14] <jmkasunich> no
[18:28:27] <JymmmmEMC> dmess: Well, I have a rectangular circuit breaker that's .750" wide, so the total width should be .760" or .780" ?
[18:28:41] <JymmmmEMC> err .770"
[18:28:43] <dmess> whats the tolerance on the .750"
[18:28:55] <JymmmmEMC> dmess: diik
[18:29:07] <dmess> .760 max.
[18:29:29] <JymmmmEMC> hmmmm, ok
[18:29:34] <jmkasunich> JymmmmEMC: if you don't know the size of the breaker (including tolerance) how do you expect to make a hole to fit it?
[18:29:44] <jmkasunich> if you have only one breaker, measure the damn thing
[18:29:49] <dmess> .005 true position of the walls to the center of the bore.... $1000 invoice on the way..
[18:29:53] <JymmmmEMC> jmkasunich: breaker size I know, it's tolerance I don't
[18:30:08] <jmkasunich> if you have only one, tolerance doesn't matter
[18:30:24] <jmkasunich> make the hole 0.01 bigger than the part that is gonna go in it and call it done
[18:31:04] <JymmmmEMC> Now, it that for metal or plastic?
[18:31:13] <jmkasunich> wait a minnit
[18:31:20] <jmkasunich> why do you think that matters?
[18:31:20] <JymmmmEMC> I'm trying to accoutn for thermal expansion
[18:31:26] <jmkasunich> lol
[18:31:32] <jmkasunich> you are a trip sometimes
[18:31:39] <dmess> but some STUPID assembly dwg's call up unmeasurable stuff.. and on an FAI you say this was this hence that is that alot...
[18:31:49] <awallin_emc> is there an easy way of doing a screen-cast in ubuntu? i.e. record an AVI or something of what's happening in AXIS ?
[18:31:57] <fenn> awallin_emc: not really
[18:32:12] <jmkasunich> snapshot yes, video not so much
[18:32:19] <fenn> awallin_emc: most screen cast methods dont play well with opengl
[18:32:39] <dmess> thermal is a crop a crap
[18:32:45] <alex_joni> awallin_emc: jepler had something on his blog how he did it
[18:32:56] <jmkasunich> especially when you have 0.010 clearance on a 0.750 hole
[18:33:01] <dmess> unless its thin titanium or SS
[18:33:04] <awallin_emc> fenn, jmk: oh, ok... have some load-meters in AXIS which are kind of nice.
[18:33:18] <JymmmmEMC> jmkasunich: Seriously. I don't know metal characteristics, more familure with thermosets, and they do expand quite a bit. I was just inquiring if there was a rule of thumb when a comonents tolerance isn't known
[18:33:21] <jmkasunich> if you were working with tolerances 10x tighter then it might matter
[18:33:23] <fenn> awallin_emc: you can install libgl1-mesa-swx11 (software opengl) and use xvidcap
[18:33:29] <alex_joni> awallin_emc: http://emergent.unpy.net/01196105360
[18:33:34] <dmess> hell my van fit thru .010" if i hit it fast enuf
[18:33:37] <jmkasunich> JymmmmEMC: define "quite a bit"
[18:33:46] <jmkasunich> then do the math
[18:34:04] <fenn> dmess: elongated missile effect?
[18:34:32] <dmess> but they are bismuth based (mosty) specificly for that reason
[18:34:41] <jmkasunich> google says aluminum expands 25 ppm per degree C
[18:35:06] <JymmmmEMC> jmkasunich: by quite a bit where the component will bind to what it's being fastened to w/o fasteners =)
[18:35:08] <dmess> and googl know EVERYTHING right...
[18:35:34] <jmkasunich> if your breaker heats up by 50C (damn hot IMO) thats 1250ppm, which is less than a thou on a 0.75 hole
[18:35:38] <awallin_emc> alex_joni: thanks for the link. looks complicated...
[18:36:12] <JymmmmEMC> jmkasunich: I'm not saying just a breaker - that was just one example, but in general.
[18:36:13] <jmkasunich> dmess: when google finds a couple of tables of material properties and they agree within an acceptable margin, yes ;-)
[18:36:32] <_Alphonse_> interesting: all the pin signal is the opposite of what halcmd reports to be!
[18:36:49] <fenn> eh? maybe i've got it backwards then
[18:36:57] <dmess> we have to let parts coming in off a truck sit for 3-4 hours before we can do inspection control sheets properly
[18:37:09] <fenn> _Alphonse_: try monitoring the dir pin (direction) and change it back and forth with stepconf
[18:37:18] <_Alphonse_> not sure... let me tell stepconf that It is opposite.
[18:37:26] <_Alphonse_> ok....
[18:37:55] <dmess> a couple tables... i have 60 yrs of material tables to draw on... steel or alu...
[18:38:26] <fenn> i have a table - it's made out of maple
[18:38:30] <dmess> with 1 guy still around from the START...
[18:38:33] <fenn> i draw on it sometimes
[18:38:57] <jmkasunich> dmess: if I was doing something that mattered (besides telling jymm to stop worrying about stuff that just doesn't matter for his project) I'd look it up in Machinery's or a reference book
[18:39:21] <awallin_emc> alex_joni: I'm missing the build tools on this machine, what's the package for that? emc2-dev? emc2.2-dev?
[18:39:35] <jmkasunich> _Alphonse_: try this: from a command line, do "cat /proc/ioports"
[18:39:42] <jmkasunich> and see if there is a line in there that says parport
[18:39:49] <dmess> it has some of our stuff but no where near ALL of it
[18:39:56] <alex_joni> emc2-dev
[18:40:05] <jmkasunich> mine says: "0378-037a : parport0"
[18:40:08] <_Alphonse_> fenn, it doesn't change
[18:40:17] <_Alphonse_> jmkasunich, let me try
[18:41:07] <_Alphonse_> ok...
[18:41:31] <_Alphonse_> "0378-037b : hal_parport"
[18:41:42] <_Alphonse_> I still have Stepconf running
[18:42:45] <_Alphonse_> am I still connected?
[18:42:58] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: I'm surprised it says that
[18:43:04] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: yes you are
[18:43:26] <_Alphonse_> oh good.
[18:43:36] <fenn> am i still awake?
[18:43:54] <_Alphonse_> I hope so!
[18:45:23] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: why
[18:46:03] <jmkasunich> (this is my desktop machine, not running EMC)
[18:46:09] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: by default once you installed the emc2 package parport & co can't be loaded
[18:46:19] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok, then I'm not surprised anymore :P
[18:46:28] <awallin_emc> now I installed the emc2-dev package but I still don't have 'make' ??
[18:46:42] <_Alphonse_> I just run stepper_mm in EMC2, the direction pin just won't go low. :(
[18:46:48] <jmkasunich> anyway, _Alphonse_ has "0378-037b : hal_parport" which explains his problem
[18:47:10] <_Alphonse_> OH?!
[18:47:12] <_Alphonse_> how?!
[18:47:22] <jmkasunich> he's loading the parport driver with 0x0378 as the address, even though he has told us 12 times that his BIOS says the address is something else
[18:47:34] <_Alphonse_> oh nonono!
[18:47:40] <_Alphonse_> I restarted and change the BIOS!
[18:48:06] <_Alphonse_> because I may have all people/software confused. I changed the bios to the EMC default 0x378!
[18:48:30] <jmkasunich> well, you sure have the people confused
[18:48:36] <_Alphonse_> sorry!
[18:48:45] <jmkasunich> personally I would change the software to match the hardware, not the other way around
[18:49:01] <jmkasunich> over an hour ago I wrote: <jmkasunich> somewhere you have a line that says "loadrt hal_parport cfg="<some_port_address>"
[18:49:01] <jmkasunich> <-- SWPLinux has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
[18:49:01] <jmkasunich> <jmkasunich> the address might be 0x03f8 or whatever
[18:49:01] <jmkasunich> <jmkasunich> it MUST match the address of your parallel port
[18:49:04] <_Alphonse_> yeah, I did that but I didn't help. :( so I tried the other way.
[18:49:30] <_Alphonse_> yep. both times I matched the software and hardware address.
[18:49:50] <_Alphonse_> I've tried matching 0x3BC in both software and hardware... and now 0x378.
[18:50:01] <jmkasunich> ok. me shuts up
[18:50:07] <_Alphonse_> I did that very carefully.
[18:50:40] <jmkasunich> did you read item 4 here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[18:50:45] <_Alphonse_> that's OK. I modified the stepper_mm hal file, I changed the Stepconf during the startup, etc, etc.
[18:51:02] <_Alphonse_> yep I did that too.
[18:51:15] <_Alphonse_> so, in the stepper_mm, I changed the...
[18:51:16] <_Alphonse_> let see.
[18:51:25] <dmess> too manychanges at the sam time
[18:52:16] <_Alphonse_> I changed standard_pinout.hal, and put loadrt probe_parport before loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378"
[18:52:39] <_Alphonse_> dmess, sorry. I do keep track of things I do. I just didn't report it on IRC.
[18:52:46] <jmkasunich> but then you tested using stepconf
[18:52:58] <_Alphonse_> jmkasunich, I also followed item 8 on that URL.
[18:53:10] <jmkasunich> stepconf has no clue about the changes you made to standardpinout.hal
[18:53:25] <_Alphonse_> yes, because the HAL communication screen in Stepper_mm didn't help me. so I had to try another apporach.
[18:53:45] <jmkasunich> I don't understand your last statement
[18:53:51] <_Alphonse_> yes, so I have tried to run Stepper_mm in EMC.
[18:53:55] <jmkasunich> "hal communication screen" what is that?
[18:54:13] <_Alphonse_> ok, on item 8 on http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[18:54:22] <_Alphonse_> I launched stepper_mm in EMC
[18:54:36] <jmkasunich> ok
[18:54:53] <_Alphonse_> then, I go under, Machine, show HAL configuration
[18:55:16] <_Alphonse_> then, I found the pin3 in the parport, and unlinked it
[18:55:31] <_Alphonse_> I tried toggling it up and down, but it won't show on the scope
[18:55:37] <_Alphonse_> or the multimeter
[18:55:58] <_Alphonse_> so I tried to do my own config with Stepconf. but I don't know if it will do loadrt probe_parport
[18:56:16] <_Alphonse_> so I tried a few things, and also on different matching address.
[18:56:23] <jmkasunich> hmm
[18:56:26] <_Alphonse_> I tried EPP/ECP, and now it is on bi-direction
[18:56:38] <_Alphonse_> but I didn't ry EPP/ECP with 0x378 yet.
[18:56:52] <jmkasunich> EPP/ECP should not be needed to run regular parport stuff
[18:56:59] <_Alphonse_> I see.
[18:57:00] <jmkasunich> it won't hurt, but you don't need it
[18:57:28] <_Alphonse_> for sure it is not working.
[18:57:45] <jmkasunich> the parallel port is really very simple - if the address is right and the stupid operating system and/or BIOS is not getting in the way, it will work
[18:58:15] <jmkasunich> some of the stupid operating system stuff that can get in the way is plug-n-play, etc
[18:58:27] <_Alphonse_> I agree. that's why I am sad! I can't even get the simplest hardware known to man to work!
[18:58:32] <jmkasunich> does the parallel port work for printing?
[18:58:42] <_Alphonse_> not sure. I never configure to print.
[18:59:05] <_Alphonse_> I just load the entire OS straight from the CD after burning the ISO file.
[19:00:20] <jmkasunich> is there an item in the BIOS that says something like "Plug-N-Play OS - yes/no" ?
[19:01:01] <fenn> awallin_emc: apt-get install build-essential emc2-dev; apt-get build-dep emc2
[19:01:01] <_Alphonse_> I think there is...
[19:01:10] <_Alphonse_> I can restart and check... can you wait?
[19:01:14] <jmkasunich> sure
[19:01:19] <_Alphonse_> it should set to no,right?
[19:01:37] <jmkasunich> that would be my guess, but if NO isn't working, you could try YES
[19:01:44] <_Alphonse_> HAHHAHAH!
[19:01:45] <_Alphonse_> OK.
[19:02:05] <jmkasunich> PnP is the invention of the devil
[19:02:18] <jmkasunich> is this a motherboard parport?
[19:02:19] <_Alphonse_> that would be MS
[19:02:21] <awallin_emc> fenn: Build-Depends dependency for emc2 cannot be satisfied because the package lyx cannot be found
[19:02:26] <_Alphonse_> yep. motherbard
[19:03:06] <alex_joni> awallin_emc: it's in universe I think
[19:04:00] <fenn> ah, yet another reason to put docs in a separate package
[19:05:07] <fenn> i think probe_parport only needs to be done once per boot
[19:05:11] <awallin_emc> uncommented 'universe' in sources.list and now build-dep emc2 works.
[19:05:23] <jmkasunich> _Alphonse_: this link describes in generaic terms what I think the problem is - only I don't know the proper solution
[19:05:24] <jmkasunich> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Plug-and-Play-HOWTO-2.html#ss2.4
[19:07:08] <alex_joni> for a PCMCIA parport board, I had to manually load the regular modules, then unload them, then loading the hal modules worked
[19:07:12] <_Alphonse_> jmkasunich, no plug-and-play OS option in BIOS. this machine may be too old. :)
[19:07:28] <jmkasunich> old is probably good
[19:07:35] <_Alphonse_> true
[19:07:43] <jmkasunich> the older it is the less weird stuff the BIOS is doing
[19:08:14] <jmkasunich> do you know that the parport works? (for example, if you were running windows on the PC before you put linux on it, could it print to that parport?)
[19:08:17] <_Alphonse_> also true. :(
[19:08:57] <_Alphonse_> yes, it worked as parallel printer port. it worked with an Epson Stylus Color II printer.
[19:09:17] <jmkasunich> ok, so the hardware is good - that's one step
[19:09:50] <_Alphonse_> I just restarted it back up... Linux is now on
[19:10:39] <_Alphonse_> darn. pin 3 the entire time never goes low! :(
[19:11:20] <_Alphonse_> 1 and 17 are still low
[19:12:18] <_Alphonse_> humm. I just did a cat /proc/ioports
[19:12:40] <_Alphonse_> 0x0378 is not in the list.
[19:13:03] <jmkasunich> was emc2 running when you did it?
[19:13:14] <_Alphonse_> yes.
[19:13:22] <jmkasunich> is hal_parport in the list?
[19:13:25] <_Alphonse_> yep.
[19:13:30] <jmkasunich> what address?
[19:13:48] <_Alphonse_> 0x0378
[19:14:10] <jmkasunich> you just contradicted yourself
[19:14:21] <_Alphonse_> there it is. it is back after launching EMC
[19:15:07] <jmkasunich> when I first told you to do cat /proc/ioports, I misunderstood what it does
[19:15:16] <_Alphonse_> it is now on "0378-037b : hal_parport"
[19:15:29] <jmkasunich> I thought it would tell you where the hardware is, but it actually tells you what addresses the drivers are using
[19:15:38] <jmkasunich> so hal_parport is using 0x0378
[19:15:42] <_Alphonse_> oh.
[19:15:51] <_Alphonse_> yes.
[19:15:55] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: it only tells you the address if you convince it to load the linux driver
[19:15:58] <jmkasunich> thats why it doesn't show up when emc isn/t running
[19:16:02] <alex_joni> (which atm is disabled..)
[19:17:07] <_Alphonse_> so is that a good sign?
[19:17:23] <jmkasunich> hard to say
[19:17:24] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: try this
[19:17:36] <alex_joni> stop emc (and everything related)
[19:17:43] <alex_joni> stepconf, or any other attempts
[19:17:48] <jmkasunich> it tells us only one of the two things we need to know: 1) what address the driver is using, and 2) what address the port is actually at
[19:18:12] <_Alphonse_> ok
[19:18:24] <_Alphonse_> all programs are off
[19:18:40] <alex_joni> ok, now open a terminal
[19:18:52] <_Alphonse_> ok
[19:18:56] <alex_joni> enter 'sudo -s'
[19:19:01] <alex_joni> and supply your password
[19:19:22] <_Alphonse_> jmkasunich, when parallel port is not loaded with the OS, that's a good sign, right? it is not suppose to.
[19:19:25] <_Alphonse_> ok
[19:19:30] <_Alphonse_> alex_joni, OK
[19:19:33] <alex_joni> you'll notice the sign before the cursor should have changed to '#'
[19:19:42] <_Alphonse_> yep
[19:19:44] <alex_joni> that means you have root access now
[19:19:49] <jmkasunich> _Alphonse_: just follow alex's instructions right now
[19:19:56] <_Alphonse_> OKOK. :)
[19:19:56] <alex_joni> now do 'mv /etc/modprobe.d/emc2 ~/.'
[19:20:21] <alex_joni> that will move the script called emc2 from /etc/modprobe.d/ to your home folder
[19:20:37] <alex_joni> this was preventing the loading of the regular parport driver
[19:21:02] <_Alphonse_> hum... one sec
[19:21:18] <alex_joni> (if you get an error it might be because you already have emc2 configs in your home dir)
[19:21:33] <_Alphonse_> yep. should I delete it?
[19:21:34] <alex_joni> in that case do 'mv /etc/modprobe.d/emc2 /tmp/'
[19:21:55] <alex_joni> no, don't delete.. just move it to /tmp/
[19:22:03] <_Alphonse_> ah. done
[19:22:57] <alex_joni> ok, now you can try to 'modprobe parport'
[19:23:03] <alex_joni> 'modprobe parport_pc'
[19:23:08] <alex_joni> 'modprobe lp'
[19:23:51] <_Alphonse_> I did 'modprobe parport' OK
[19:24:08] <alex_joni> do the others aswell
[19:24:09] <_Alphonse_> when I do 'modprobe parport_pc', it gives me a Segmentation fault
[19:24:15] <alex_joni> that's not good
[19:24:31] <alex_joni> check 'cat /proc/ioports'
[19:24:59] <_Alphonse_> what am I looking for?
[19:25:06] <alex_joni> parport something
[19:25:39] <_Alphonse_> nothing like that
[19:25:41] <_Alphonse_> in the list
[19:25:53] <alex_joni> try parport_pc again
[19:26:26] <alex_joni> parport_pc is the one that detects the parport address
[19:26:35] <_Alphonse_> hummm... it is waiting
[19:26:43] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: try rebooting
[19:26:52] <_Alphonse_> right now??
[19:27:01] <alex_joni> I bet something might have been borked up
[19:27:06] <alex_joni> yup.. don't be gentle :P
[19:27:14] <_Alphonse_> ok. rebooting
[19:28:36] <_Alphonse_> booting up now
[19:29:03] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: after it booted do a lsmod
[19:29:12] <alex_joni> and see if anything related to parport is in that list
[19:29:38] <_Alphonse_> ok... still booting
[19:30:15] <_Alphonse_> doing lsmod
[19:31:05] <_Alphonse_> there is lp
[19:31:13] <_Alphonse_> ther eis parport_pc
[19:31:15] <_Alphonse_> also parport
[19:31:51] <_Alphonse_> that's it
[19:32:29] <_Alphonse_> ok, lp it is not used by anything..
[19:32:44] <_Alphonse_> same as parport_pc
[19:32:50] <alex_joni> ok
[19:32:57] <_Alphonse_> but parport, it is used by 2 lp, parport_pc
[19:32:57] <alex_joni> now check /proc/ioports
[19:33:27] <_Alphonse_> 0x0378 is not in the list
[19:33:39] <_Alphonse_> oh wait!!!
[19:33:41] <_Alphonse_> no no no
[19:34:02] <_Alphonse_> 0x378-037a : parport0 is there!
[19:35:01] <alex_joni> ok, so the 0x378 is probably the right address
[19:35:09] <alex_joni> now do the sudo -s again
[19:35:14] <_Alphonse_> goooooood! I am not drunk!
[19:35:20] <alex_joni> then rmmod lp, parport_pc, ppdev
[19:35:23] <alex_joni> parport
[19:35:44] <_Alphonse_> ok, so rmmod lp, rmmod parport_pc... one at a time?
[19:36:10] <alex_joni> yeah
[19:36:51] <_Alphonse_> rmmod ppdev I got an error: ERROR: Module ppdev does not exist in /proc/modules
[19:36:54] <_Alphonse_> keep going?
[19:37:40] <alex_joni> yup
[19:38:14] <_Alphonse_> done
[19:38:37] <alex_joni> ok, now try the emc test again
[19:39:17] <_Alphonse_> running stepper_mm or Stepconf?
[19:41:20] <alex_joni> stepper_mm
[19:41:46] <_Alphonse_> ok
[19:46:06] <_Alphonse_> well...
[19:46:46] <_Alphonse_> the scope gives me some that that may be a square wave on the step pin, but less that 5V... the direction pin doesn't go low.
[19:46:54] <_Alphonse_> that isn't very promising
[19:47:21] <_Alphonse_> oh, I still have the loadrt probe_parport in the stepper config file. did that cause a problem?
[19:49:13] <alex_joni> not sure
[19:49:58] <_Alphonse_> should I restart?
[19:50:21] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: I would try to move the file back from /tmp to /etc/modules.d/
[19:50:24] <alex_joni> and restart
[19:50:37] <alex_joni> then see if it still works (run stepper_mm, and check the voltages on the pin)
[19:50:54] <alex_joni> if it works less well then now, then I'd say you have to do this procedure on each startup
[19:51:54] <_Alphonse_> ok...
[19:52:08] <_Alphonse_> do you know what files should be in /etc/modules.d/emc2
[19:52:09] <dmess> bonne chance
[19:52:38] <_Alphonse_> I just peeked inside /tmp/ and there are things there including an ssk- file.
[19:52:44] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: it's only one file
[19:52:45] <_Alphonse_> ssh- file.
[19:52:49] <alex_joni> called emc2
[19:53:02] <alex_joni> if it's gone from /tmp
[19:53:03] <_Alphonse_> really?
[19:53:05] <alex_joni> you can do this
[19:53:07] <alex_joni> sudo -s
[19:53:14] <alex_joni> touch /etc/modules.d/emc2
[19:53:36] <alex_joni> echo "install parport_pc /bin/true" > /etc/modules.d/emc2
[19:54:03] <dmess> 'touch' himself.... hmmm
[19:54:16] <_Alphonse_> ok... let me try
[19:54:59] <dmess> sorry alex i couldnt resist
[19:54:59] <_Alphonse_> touch: cannot touch '/etc/modules.d/emc2': No such file or directory
[19:55:39] <_Alphonse_> I have a few emc.* file in /tmp, but no emc2!
[19:55:57] <dmess> odd
[19:56:05] <_Alphonse_> yep
[19:56:29] <alex_joni> _Alphonse_: are you sure you did the sudo -s ?
[19:56:43] <_Alphonse_> yes!
[19:56:54] <alex_joni> then try the next without the touch
[19:56:56] <dmess> how long have you had this insallation??
[19:56:58] <_Alphonse_> still #
[19:57:25] <alex_joni> or if it's easier type 'gedit'
[19:57:26] <_Alphonse_> about a month... I haven't be able to get it to work since I installed it. I use the ISO file to install.
[19:57:41] <alex_joni> it will open an editor which you can use to create a file called 'emc2' in /etc/modprobe.d/
[19:58:01] <_Alphonse_> ok.... let me try
[19:58:23] <dmess> sounds like a sour iso... or install SOMETHING has gone sour
[19:59:02] <_Alphonse_> not sure. emc2 shows up straight the way after the installatoin...
[19:59:12] <_Alphonse_> alex, is it: install parport_pc /bin/true
[19:59:18] <alex_joni> yup
[19:59:21] <_Alphonse_> I should put inside the text file.
[19:59:23] <_Alphonse_> ok.
[20:00:20] <_Alphonse_> in a file called emc2. I put "install parport_pc /bin/true" in there... and it is saved
[20:00:57] <_Alphonse_> restart and try again?
[20:04:05] <_Alphonse_> humm... all the emc.* files in /tmp are now gone!!
[20:04:16] <alex_joni> at reboot everything in /tmp gets deleted
[20:04:37] <_Alphonse_> I haven't restarted yet.
[20:04:55] <_Alphonse_> restarting now
[20:07:53] <_Alphonse_> back in Linux now
[20:08:14] <_Alphonse_> launching Stepper_mm
[20:10:07] <_Alphonse_> nope. the pins are still high
[20:14:03] <_Alphonse_> let's take a break. :) and do lunch then come back.
[20:14:11] <_Alphonse_> thanks for all your help.
[21:09:54] <toastydeath> bam
[21:14:16] <awallin> crash?!
[21:14:53] <toastydeath> ZAPOW
[22:50:20] <kennethj> hello all
[22:51:03] <Dallur> hey
[23:01:09] <kennethj> everyone working ?
[23:01:28] <alex_joni> on a saturday evening?
[23:01:29] <toastydeath> lol
[23:01:30] <alex_joni> surely :P
[23:01:32] <toastydeath> i sure hope not
[23:01:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is
[23:01:59] <kennethj> hahha
[23:02:55] <kennethj> can someone tell me which configuration to use to run the mill in emc2 ?
[23:03:51] <alex_joni> kennethj: depends on the mill
[23:04:06] <alex_joni> but it's most likely that stepper_mm or stepper_inch is close to what you might need
[23:04:07] <kennethj> sherline mini mill
[23:04:25] <fenn> click the button
[23:04:37] <fenn> no, the other button!
[23:04:42] <kennethj> i mean mini...tkemc...axis ?
[23:05:01] <alex_joni> that's up to your personal taste
[23:05:08] <kennethj> it'll be stepper_inch
[23:05:11] <kennethj> cool
[23:05:13] <kennethj> thanks
[23:05:55] <kennethj> didn't know what the differents were
[23:06:54] <kennethj> where do i set the tool list file ?
[23:12:10] <alex_joni> it would be stepper.var for stepper_inch.ini
[23:28:42] <kennethj> in the emc folder ?
[23:31:17] <alex_joni> in the file where the config is
[23:31:28] <alex_joni> usually when you start you start with a sample configuration
[23:31:40] <alex_joni> and it asks you if you want to make a copy in your home folder
[23:31:48] <alex_joni> (which you should do..)
[23:33:51] <kennethj> i did
[23:33:53] <kennethj> thanks
[23:35:11] <alex_joni> ok, then it's in /home/<username>/emc2/configs/..
[23:38:14] <kennethj> got it thanks
[23:38:46] <kennethj> why doesn't g92 work with y and z ?
[23:41:33] <alex_joni> kennethj: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_coordinates.html#r1_4
[23:41:38] <kennethj> oops z...y works :)
[23:41:43] <kennethj> thanks
[23:42:44] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:49:13] <kennethj> g'nite alex thanks