NewType_: if you return... i found that one piece of hardware suited to EMC2 uses the EPP parallel port. (the 'pluto-p'). I find no other mention on the wiki, and only remember there was discussion on this irc over the last few years. So EPP is good and others are unknown.
and the PICO systems PPMC also uses EPP, so get yourself an EPP port
for parallel-connected devices, there's also the Mesa 7i43
EPP is useful because the hardware does the handshaking - without that, it would take several more I/O cycles from the CPU (as far as I know)
anyone have experience with 7143, as parallel port extension and maybe with it as a usb device?
seb has one (he wrote the driver)
it's unlikely you'll be able to use it in USB mode for EMC
but I'd love to be proven (or prove myself) wrong on that
you could sure use it as HID
given the right firmware of course
that may depend on the USB chip
ok, sounds like you know more than I do
some of them identify themselves as the USB<-> serial shim that they are
heh - probably a slight amount more - I'm not an expert (but I have read some datasheets)
the RPC commands sound like macros
RPC commands allow previously stored sequences of read/write commands to be
executed with a single byte command
7i43 usb interface
that would be a single byte of payload, I imagine - using their SoftDMC controller?
didnt read SoftDMC near that
page 28 of mesa pdf
oh, from where?
I don't think I've downloaded the 7i43 manual yet
[00:53:18] <tom1> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i43man.pdf
i was interested in the hardware waveform generator
oops, make that page 26 ( mustve hit END btn)
PDF page 26 or the page numbered 26?
yeh, the number from 'evince' viewer
80 to 100$ if i'm really interested ( ay there's the rub )
that's referring to the register addressing "language" - you can set up a series of transfers and refer to them by "handle"
not to things like "output 40 pulses on X then set DOUT6 high
right, like load sets of outputs push 'command' val val val onto stack & hit send
but it seems to be done 'soft' and any capability is liely on my 5i20 anywho
no, more like "I don't want to send the write commands and addresses for this set of registers every time - just the RPC code and the data"
right - that's done because USB is a serial protocol
yes, gotcha 'command has all that bundled into 1 byte
the PCI cards have random addressing
err - random *access* addressing ;)
i like random addressing
it's great at parties
you talkin' to me?
or, as one person mis-spoke: ROM = "Random Only Memory" :)
i'm a great believer in coincidence. I was listening to this today "Are you looking at me , Jimmy" http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/networks/bbc7/aod.shtml?bbc7/looking_at_me_jimmy_wed
and the coincidence is ... ?
SWPadnos: you talkin' to me? "Are you looking at me , Jimmy" tom1: i like random addressing same thing to me
wasn't it National that issued a data sheet for write only memories?
I think so
ah - Signetics
[02:38:35] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write_Only_Memory
they have a list of practical applications
yeah, sorrt of
all of which allow reads
yeah, from some point or another
actually the "write-only register bits" is the closest thing to a correct usage I see there
there may not even be a memory bit for something like that - the write can go directly to hardware
they didn't tell the story the way I originally saw it, I think Bob Pease wrote it up
someone thought any data sheet he submitted would be published and put it in
it was in a data book before it was an april fool's day joke
[02:42:33] <jepler> http://www.national.com/rap/Story/WOMorigin.html
pretty much the same as the wiki page
hm that's where the famous "number of pins remaining" graph comes from as well
but it has the datasheet too
heh - I like the "Bipolar compatibility" section :)
what about input protection?
heh "S.O.S. copyrighted US Army Commissary, 1940"
yeah, they're all pretty funny actually
6 foot fan 1/2" from device for cooling
I have a similar spec sheet around here somewhere, but in paper form
I think it was from Electro-Voice, for a speaker
"All inputs and outputs are directly TTL compatible when proper interfacing circuitry is employed."
1 amp fuses
haha, Iff vs Vff is great
jmkasunich: got the pump off tonight.
half the time was spent looking for the gear puller, the other half was spent removing the pump
started taking it apart yet?
SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
diesel injection pump
is this the diesel?
I'm going to try to fix it, even though I know nothing about them
What is if for?
a nice 3 cylinder generator that's on the bus
ah - cool
is the bus diesel also?
they run from the same tank which is cool
have you looked for overhauled injection pumps?
all we could find was some place willing to have one shipped from japan for over $2k
it's a bit old (93ish)
what style is is the pump? rotory?
I bet you will fix it.
its a Yanmar, if that clarifies anything
if I had a rebuild kit and instructions I'd definitely fix it -- I have neither
I've rebuild plenty of carbs (and watches)
this will probably have more in common with watches than carbs
heh, the whole engines on ebay are < $2k
[03:39:58] <cradek> http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/e6/3e/6faf_1.JPG
you can see half the pump on the right of this terrible image
yes - and 2 of the 3 feed lines to the injectors
hey guys... trying to setup a new irc client.... I found #emc on freenode, but it doesnt have emc-dev.... have I got the name wrong?
thankyou... for some reason search didnt find it??? I must be brain dead
the # is significant
search is always iffy on irc servers, because there are a bazillion channels
there are $ or @ channels or something also
yeah, and don't try to list channels on this server - it always seems disabled
I think you can ask chanserv or nickserv to search for you
thanks... now on emc-devel with the other 14 user
fun when you think you have joined a channel and you are the only one there!
trying horny heron-beta
castings are a PITA
lerman_ is now known as lerman
lerman_ is now known as lerman
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-04-03.txt
cnczone is down. What am I going to do?
get some work done
Don't worry - I am good. This will keep me busy for a few http://membres.lycos.fr/mavati/classicladder/
archivist: I don't understand what you are saying ;)
neither do I
skunkworks_: I'm sure he meant that he's going to do a better job at documenting classicladder for emc2
skunkworks_: oh, that was you that meant that..
[13:27:05] <skunkworks_> http://www.tothepointnews.com/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3114&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=76
their "sound" is a little different than Lynrd Skynyrd
see, this is why the US lost the space race
the Mesa 7i43 lists "waveform generator" as an available configuration. Does the M5i20 have same?
tom1, anything the 7i43 can do (with the exception of connecting to a parallel or USB port) can be done by the 5i22. Some things may not run as fast or may be too large to fit in the 5i20
oh, and some clock-related functions may not work in the 5i20, since the FPGA is part of an older series
thx, I wrote Peter about it. i'd like a config file rather than the capability ;)
well, you'll still need to write the PC side software to run it
it should be in the "support software" link
that zip file has several projects in it
skunkworks_: I found what I was looking for: http://email@example.com/msg03227.html
i cant guess from "hostmopt hostmot2 iopr12 iopr24 softdmc softdmcs" , would need to read those sources to see.
hmmm. I don't think any of those are it. good thing you emailed him :)
it's strange that I can't find that same message in gmane.
can I1(no) and I2(nc) both conduct at same time?
yes if the I1 signal is high and the I2 signal is low they will both conduct
actually this condition is what triggers and latches that rung
ok, i was think-blocked... i saw them as relay contacts. not signals
as relay contacts, theyd have same coil
yes in CL all %I are input signals (hal pins)
cradek: thank you. :)
skunkworks_: is it the kind of thing that is useful to you? if so it ought to be in our real documentation somewhere
I will look it over.
its handier than the tutorial on the CL site ( which turns out to be for Grafcet, a good tutor but not ladder diagrams )
added to wiki, ok now? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ClassicLadder
looks good to me
all we need to do now is find a photo of real relay logic for that little history blurb :)
real relays? what the heck are those?
the clicky things you attach to the parport ;)
[14:23:22] <SWPadnos> http://access.remhouse.com/images/ac%20panel.gif
I think that's even a "modern" panel
it seems so much easier than CL :)
suprisingly - the K&T which was installed in 69' has solid state relays in the control
I am assuming they are scr
I wonder if that was some thyristor setup or something
or whatever the germanium equivilant is
that must have been a very expensive control at the time
I am sure it was.. It also had the 'precision' option.
well, I'm thinking of the semiconductor parts
on a side note - the control doesn't run correctly under 55deg f
the project that developed gas phase deposition (for mass production) was being done at Research Triangle Park in the late '60s
like 1966-1968 or thereabouts
Heh - I need to draw a circle around this.. ;) http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/rearcontrller.JPG
there was atleast 3 more rows of cards
that looks like some military stuff I've (supposedly) had to work on
heh cutting edge. ;)
the M1 thermal sight was much easier to adjust than the one in the old M60A3
I like the card labeled 'no good'
yeah I'm sure that was the only bad part
"just don't move to X=32, Y=11.9 - that's a bad spot"
you can see in the lower right - the new caps
orange ones on top too
yes - we did a lot of work to get it running.
Thank goodness for emc
it's amazing that you made it work
dad is very smart :)
although I don't know what he is going to do with all of emc's bells and whistles.. Like actual posistion readout ;)
well, maybe you can get a DRO to ease him into it :)
that machine had no position readout?
you knew where it was by telling it to go there
it's a computer. how could it make a mistake? who needs to know what it's doing? :)
how did you set a (the?) work origin?
You homed it (standard grid was what it was called) from there you could do one offset.
we never did - you had to use the thumbwheels. we just programmed everything off of machine coordinates
so the center of the tombstone was x19y18
the thumbwheels didn't work? that's too bad, those are the coolest part of it
pete C sez he can add the waveform generator to the 5i20 in the future
heh - they worked for the most part.. you had to wiggle them to be sure. But you really had no way of knowing that it took.
both relays and thumbwheels can be 'bribed' ( cleaned with a dollar bill, good becuz it has rag content, great for contacts )
oops, Pete W yes
ok -wasn't sure if there was some new Mesa developer :)
Pete 1 Pete 2 Pete N
yeah they have a policy only to hire guys named Pete.
I think we end at Pete V now ;)
Pete(x) where x=v?
if only I could type set symbols ;)
integral of Pete from A to Z?
(if only I still knew all those set symbols)
I wouldn't bet on the symbols coming through IRC anyway
yeah - problems at every stage there
(anybody see an omega there? I don't)
I saw a very well-formed question mark
there you go
hmmm. Pete <I with accent-aigu><copyright symbol>
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-04-03.txt
that's what you'd get if you treated my utf-8 encoded omega as latin-1 or latin-15
I guess that's what this Windows-2000 machine does
even in Firefox
IRC doesn't *have* a defined encoding
jepler> Pete \u03a9
(it was historically not even 8-bit clean, like almost all internet protocols)
if EBCDIC was good enough for me, then it's good enough for my grandchildren! :)
mmm. jepler, could you paste that in again?
it renders correctly on my Linux laptop, but the log doesn't store the unicode
so I see it correctly in chatzilla but not in the log
sometimes I get blocky shite but that Ω shows nicely
hmm I seem to have ectra curls in my hair, damned turnings were flying a few minutes ago
I know, let's all argue about what encoding should be used on an irc channel where only English is spoken
first, let me say it obviously should be what my irc client does, whatever that might be
041f043e044704350442043d044b0439 043304400430043604340430043d0438043d 043a0443043b04380441,
skunkworks_: huh that doesn't work (I see inverse caret followed by 4 hex codes, repeated several times)
^ I am sure it has something to do with male 'enhancements' (junkmail)
I wonder why I can't type a mu anymore
here it looks fine. it was just coppied and pasted out of junkmail
* archivist knibbles a cake and waits for coffee
I have been getting a lot of those emails lately
google translation just transliterates that: Pochetnyygrazhdaninkulis. I wonder what it actually means
there should be spaces in it.
let me try
what language did you use?
Honorary Citizen of the scenes,
the next line in the email says I am hostile elements
I was deep economy
I think it is a nigerian scam :)
you can tell spamassassin what languages you read, and it will toss out everything else
what's a standard toolchanger size?
alex_joni: that sounds like "how long is a stick"
cradek: yeah, I know..
I mean.. are there any toolchangers for small tools?
like PCB mills?
oh you don't mean how many tools, you mean the tool size?
for an ATC
I'm sure pcb drilling machines can change 1/8" shank tools
they probably use some kind of tapered holder but I don't know what it is
ok, tapered holder is what I'm after
I think you use some on your bridgeport..
many machine tools with ATCs are 40 or 50 taper
(obviously a lot bigger than what I'm looking for..)
my BP is a 30 taper
ok, is there a 1 taper? or something like that?
morse 1 or jacobs 1
I don't know of any small standards
I think the sherline spindle is morse 1, you can get collets up to about 1/4"
and there was a brown and sharp 1 as well iirc
yeah, but then you can't do an ATC .. right?
but you wouldn't use morse taper with an ATC because it is not self-releasing
found these.. but still a notch too big : http://www.centaurtools.com/products/umatic/umatic.asp
a big notch if you're talking about pcb tools
what are you trying to do?
fitting an ATC to a small robot
and it doesn't have a spindle yet?
but it's a small robot
up to 4-5kg payload
found this: http://www.suhner-automation-expert.com/domains/suhner-automation-expert_com/data/free_docs/TOOLholder_G5.pdf
which is probably the right size
BEM-6 looks nice
yes I thought of recommending something that takes ER16 collets
(but, you have to buy collets too then)
[16:27:54] <skunkworks_> http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/rapid_changer.html
[16:28:35] <skunkworks_> http://www.royalprod.com/product.cfm?catID=11
[16:28:56] <skunkworks_> http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=5867899.20249*bD39a4&user2=yes&user4=KS300&titttle=Universal_Kwik-Switch_300_Tooling_for_sale&ppinc=MT
consider nmtb/iso30 if you can use something that big. it's as common as dirt
I don't know if the high tech systems could be use in a atc environment.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmQPOtQcLA8&feature=related
* alex_joni goes away for a while
flying back tomorrow morning ;)
i like the royal qwikchange system, turns a Bridgeport into a Tree ( almost )
I like the quickswitch system cause it came on my bridgeport
I don't trust my QC30 so much since I had my face mill come loose once
I think I had even tightened it with the wrench
can't beat a draw bar for security, but they're a pain to use
sounds ugly, enuf for me to stay clear of qc
tho i never had issues with tree mills
I was pushing the face mill hard... but it should have been ok.
it didn't hurt anything but the part, and I was even able to save it
the quickswitch system the more you load it the tighter it gets. even if you ram it into your work with a rapid it won't let go
[20:11:54] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Machine%20Shop/HPIM0598.jpg
oh I could easily do that :-)
I think the taper is even the same, isn't it?
I wouldn't know for sure though, since when rapiding, I like to keep the tool above the vise :-)
[20:14:05] <BigJohnT> http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/store/agora.cgi?user2=yes&cart_id=1905425.4183*r35MJ5&p_id=11494&xm=on&ppinc=1a
normally I like to as well...
yeah it might be the same taper, just different ears/nut
$95 for used? are they always that expensive?
yea, in high demand
I thought QC30 was bad
I buy new endmill holders from MSC
I only buy the collet holders used from fleabay
I buy the collets new only
enco had really nice new QC30 for dirt cheap. I wish I had bought them up. They doubled the price last catalog.
they were poland made, excellent workmanship
so how did the face mill fall off?
the nut came loose and it fell out of the taper onto the work
maybe I didn't have it tight enough. Now when I'm going to do something heavy I give it a tap with the mallet
the kwik/rapid switch has a spring loaded nut, can't fall off
put on and off by hand only
the nut can't fall off QC either, it only turns about 1/3 turn
is it held tight with a spring?
what does the spring do?
ve7it sounds like a motherboard designation
on mine you have to "cock" it open to remove the tool then when you insert the next holder it spins the nut up tight
it's really fast to use
skunkworks, ham radio callsign
the only time you need a wrench to take your tool out is when you ram it into the vise LOL
ah - should have known that..
skunkworks, LawrenceG is in use by the old computer.... major amount of stuff to set up again
duh.. Like I said - should have known taht.
NewType: use an EPP port, it's all the rage. used by all the hardware that plays well with emc2 ( afik )
speaking of motherboards what is a good place to start looking for a new cpu and motherboard for my cad machine?
there is no recommended hardware list only caveats and ways to test. we need a wiki page where people can submit what works for them ( and what 'works' means )
I think the rtai team has something like that, but it may not be current enough to be useful
does anyone use the x6800 chip?
using a page contributed by anyone using rtai (as opposed to only those using emc) sounds like an advantage -- you'll get more reports than otherwise
hmm - looks like thunderbird might work as an email client for me.. after breaking the 7 years of emails down by years.
500000 emails in my junk folder..
BigJohnT: I beleive SWPadnos has used a Core 2 chip in a realtime / hal system successfully
actually this is for my windows desktop to run my cad software SolidWorks
BigJohnT: you said "cad". do you mean realtime emc, or something else?
I'm real happy with my EMC2 machine VBG
I know even less about that (but I bet just about anything would work)
took a good hour to train it..
[21:00:51] <tomp2> http://www.rtai.dk/cgi-bin/gratiswiki.pl?Hardware
I second the 'just about anything will work'
I just get tired of twiddling my thumbs waiting for a process to finish
the 'buslockcheck' is new to me
apparently there's some list on the rtai live cd
get a nice dell quad core :)
* jepler just ordered a dell yesterday (laptop)
I hope I like it
wait - didn't you just get one a few months ago? ;)
mobo rated "works really well' by rtai crew http://buy.helpcom.net/pn/232592_Asus-A7m266-d-Motherboard-Dual-Amd-Socket-462.htm
thats the only mobo with such a comment that i found
here at work we got a new server and a powervault 124t. lto3 with a 16 tape autoloader. 400/800gb per tape.
skunkworks_: that was an eee, that's barely a laptop at all
for one thing, it doesn't weigh 7 pounds like a laptop should
I am going to have to do something about mine one of these days. 1024X768 isn't cutting it. (and things are starting to not work on it - like the cdrom. - yes just a cdrom)
cdrom? what would you ever use that for, besides to install ubuntu?
i'm waiting for the touchscreen for my eeepc
[21:39:16] <BigJohnT> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350044560976&refid=store
hookers on ebay i thought that was illegal
only if u get caught
ve7it is now known as LawrenceG