#emc | Logs for 2008-03-28

[00:00:28] <skunkworks> Those are just a tad better than the dapper install on this box.
[00:14:59] <jmkasunich> just started part 7 of 20
[00:15:33] <skunkworks> whatcha makin?
[00:16:22] <skunkworks> * skunkworks just put up the last piece of crown molding. Yah
[00:20:48] <jmkasunich> parts for a friend/customer
[00:21:03] <jmkasunich> she works in a lab - they use them for testing bond strength of grout and tile cement
[00:21:44] <skunkworks> ok - what you have made before.
[00:21:58] <skunkworks> the everything? gear box and all?
[00:22:08] <jmkasunich> not that fancy test jig
[00:22:13] <skunkworks> ah
[00:22:15] <jmkasunich> just 2x2x1 blocks with a stud in them
[00:25:02] <jmkasunich> its nice to be able to sit here and let the machine to the work
[00:25:20] <jmkasunich> #7 is faced, drilled, bored, and its just finishing up the chamfer
[00:25:26] <jmkasunich> just started threading the stud hole
[00:27:21] <skunkworks> Nice huh - when will rigid tapping be installed? :)
[00:27:30] <jmkasunich> never
[00:27:39] <jmkasunich> this is lathe work, I don't have a powered tailstock
[00:27:51] <jmkasunich> this program pauses for me to drill the hole
[00:28:08] <skunkworks> Ok - getting the picture
[00:28:10] <jmkasunich> I got clever and use the CNC as a depth stop though
[00:28:50] <skunkworks> park the crossslide in a stratigic location?
[00:28:55] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:28:59] <skunkworks> neat
[00:29:33] <jmkasunich> just finished threading, onto final (slow) facing pass
[00:30:07] <jmkasunich> I get two strategic locations from it
[00:30:38] <jmkasunich> a block clamped to the table tells me where to position the tailstock, and the chuck hitting the back of the toolpost tells me when to stop drilling
[00:33:26] <jmkasunich> and done... looks like about 19 minutes
[00:34:42] <jmkasunich> #8 started ;-)
[00:47:31] <Ito-Brazil> Hello All
[00:47:58] <Ito-Brazil> Is EMC2 USB compatable? I mean, using USB stepper drivers ?
[00:48:28] <eric_U> no, it's not
[00:48:46] <Ito-Brazil> can you say Why ?
[00:48:58] <eric_U> USB is not a suitable protocol
[00:49:17] <eric_U> they messed it up
[00:49:22] <Ito-Brazil> there is a USB joystick for EMC2...
[00:49:52] <Ito-Brazil> i know, i´m just trying to realize how to use EMC with newer PCs, without LPT
[00:50:07] <eric_U> that's what we call a non-sequiter in my country
[00:50:08] <skunkworks> pci lpt cards
[00:51:29] <Ito-Brazil> right. and what about servos? i mean Encoder readers... U can control a servo by LPT, but can´t read fast enought with LPT
[00:52:33] <eric_U> Mesa or Pico
[00:53:37] <eric_U> both have lpt cards for servo
[00:54:02] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[00:54:12] <skunkworks> pluto
[00:54:14] <Ito-Brazil> LPT for servo ?
[00:54:30] <eric_U> pluto?
[00:54:46] <Ito-Brazil> hey! What about ETH1 ? Can I make a Ethernet compatable servodrive?
[00:54:55] <eric_U> you could
[00:55:05] <eric_U> source code is available :)
[00:55:14] <Ito-Brazil> i mean , put another eth card ad use it to send
[00:55:18] <eric_U> no
[00:55:25] <Ito-Brazil> oh...
[00:55:28] <Ito-Brazil> why not?
[00:55:33] <eric_U> not without major work on your part
[00:55:47] <Ito-Brazil> i see
[00:56:05] <eric_U> ok, you put another computer on the other side that has hardware and is also running emc, and it will work
[00:56:08] <Ito-Brazil> You mean i need to built my own protocol and packages?
[00:56:12] <eric_U> but I guess that's not what you wanted
[00:56:26] <Ito-Brazil> it´s not
[00:56:45] <Ito-Brazil> i need to make a driver to servo and another to steppers
[00:57:03] <eric_U> the Mesa 7xxxx seems like the way to go
[00:57:43] <Ito-Brazil> Is that opensource?
[00:57:45] <Ito-Brazil> look
[00:57:53] <Ito-Brazil> i live in Brazil, 3rd world
[00:58:08] <Ito-Brazil> i have not much money to spent hehe
[00:58:09] <eric_U> I live in the U.S., third world :)
[00:58:27] <Ito-Brazil> so i build my own hardware and 95% from garbage
[00:58:53] <Ito-Brazil> U.S 3rd world ?
[00:59:13] <eric_U> we've adopted the peso as our currency
[00:59:39] <Ito-Brazil> huh ?
[00:59:55] <eric_U> peg the dollar to the Peso
[01:00:00] <eric_U> sorry, bad joke
[01:00:05] <Ito-Brazil> Look that i still use Phase-drive on my cnc haha
[01:00:09] <Ito-Brazil> oke lol
[01:00:25] <Ito-Brazil> phse-drive is not a joke
[01:00:36] <Ito-Brazil> but i can go upto 5000 mm/min
[01:01:26] <Ito-Brazil> well i intend now to get more about hardware
[01:01:44] <Ito-Brazil> i mean servos or dir-step drives to steppers
[01:01:59] <Ito-Brazil> but all made, not ready-made bought
[01:02:03] <eric_U> sell an airplane
[01:02:10] <Ito-Brazil> haha
[01:02:43] <eric_U> flying season about to start here
[01:03:07] <Ito-Brazil> I was a hang glider pilot
[01:03:10] <Ito-Brazil> retired now
[01:04:38] <eric_U> the mesa board does start to add up if you do servos
[01:04:54] <eric_U> but it's hard to beat, don't know of other solutions that cheap
[01:05:20] <eric_U> don't know if pluto is really practical long term
[01:06:34] <Ito-Brazil> mesa board... how much can it cost?
[01:07:05] <eric_U> the board is $80, then you need 7i37 and 7i33 plus cables and terminals
[01:08:13] <eric_U> $250 for a servo setup
[01:08:17] <Ito-Brazil> have ya some links about it?
[01:08:31] <eric_U> http://mesanet.com/ and see the hardware link above
[01:08:59] <eric_U> you can build your own digital output board and save part of $70
[01:09:05] <Ito-Brazil> it´s not cheap to me (geare a dollar costs 2 bucks to me, so US$ 80 = R$ 160)
[01:09:11] <eric_U> don't know about the analog output and encoder board
[01:09:31] <Ito-Brazil> my own digital output?
[01:09:38] <Ito-Brazil> whoa, that´s my language!!!!!
[01:10:17] <eric_U> http://www.anderswallin.net/2006/08/optoisolator-cards-for-mesa-5i20-servocard/
[01:10:44] <skunkworks> how cheap and fast do you want to go? A decent computer should be able to count at a rate close to 50khz...
[01:11:37] <Ito-Brazil> my problem is just the encoder reader...
[01:11:51] <skunkworks> output pdm out of the printer port to run the servo (insert some sort of high power H-bridge here)
[01:11:52] <Ito-Brazil> i can do PWM to my servos on EMC2 really good
[01:12:19] <eric_U> there are counters for that
[01:13:15] <fenn> i'm supposed to be working ona cheap and libre servo controller using AVR microcontrollers..
[01:13:29] <eric_U> you sir, are a dreamer
[01:13:44] <skunkworks> Look at either the pluto board or the mesa 7I43.. Both are printer port interfaced and under $100. They do pwm and count encoders.
[01:13:46] <fenn> i'm a generalist, dreaming happens to be my favorite hobby
[01:14:00] <Ito-Brazil> I saw on a website about an AVR board on LPT
[01:14:31] <eric_U> I'm a big fan of your art
[01:15:15] <eric_U> fenn: speaking of that, how come when I try to export inkscape svg to ps or eps all the fancy shading goes away
[01:15:33] <fenn> ps doesnt support filters
[01:15:53] <eric_U> fenn, I have the picture you drew of me getting my ass kicked by ribbon cables
[01:16:03] <fenn> heh
[01:16:12] <eric_U> are there any good exports?
[01:16:21] <fenn> what do you want to do with it?
[01:16:23] <skunkworks> aww.. I have not seen any of these drawings...
[01:16:30] <eric_U> put it in a powerpoint or a tex doc
[01:16:56] <Ito-Brazil> oke dudes thanks for the answers! I got to go !!!
[01:17:00] <fenn> i suppose you could export the shadows in a separate png, and overlay your svg
[01:17:23] <eric_U> ouch
[01:17:27] <fenn> skunkworks: i think he's talking about these pics mostly: http://fennetic.net/pub/sketches/emc-splash/
[01:18:31] <eric_U> there was an eric_u.png hidden on there somewhere
[01:18:47] <eric_U> need a copy?
[01:23:01] <fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/eric_u.png
[01:23:01] <fenn> eric_U: the other option is simply making a huge hi-res png
[01:23:37] <eric_U> i guess...
[01:24:14] <fenn_> sigh.. phone repair guy coming tomorrow hopefully
[01:25:41] <eric_U> bad dsl?
[01:29:55] <fenn_> yep
[01:38:45] <skunkworks> fenn_: are you hosting your site - on site?
[01:38:54] <fenn_> yep
[01:39:48] <skunkworks> I can't get there from here. :)
[01:40:01] <eric_U> there's no there there
[01:41:16] <fenn_> you people must be using windows or something
[01:41:29] <eric_U> why you say dat?
[01:42:00] <fenn_> i'm guessing old dns data in your dns cache
[01:42:46] <eric_U> I was just b-s-ing
[01:43:18] <eric_U> I have no problem with yer site, such as it is
[01:43:33] <fenn_> i see.. i think.. said the half-blind half-stupid man
[01:44:14] <eric_U> why don't you lose your connection again, you're the same color as skunky
[01:44:23] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[01:44:38] <eric_U> it was better when you were that brownish purple
[01:44:42] <fenn> ew
[01:44:56] <eric_U> better
[02:32:00] <cradek> my mill must have heard me threaten to drill out the bad button on the membrane keyboard - it worked perfectly all evening
[02:40:19] <jmkasunich> what were you milling?
[02:40:32] <cradek> some steel plate
[02:40:43] <jmkasunich> making anything fun?
[02:40:53] <cradek> "reengineering" a cheap metal futon frame for the bus
[02:41:03] <jmkasunich> ah
[02:41:12] <cradek> it will be quite stout when I'm done
[02:41:13] <jmkasunich> have you taken a look at the fuel pump yet?
[02:41:23] <cradek> no, I almost have it off
[02:41:48] <cradek> I took a full evening taking off the radiator/fan/etc so I could see the timing marks, and then figuring them out
[02:42:11] <cradek> and today it was colder - much nicer to work on an inside project
[02:42:33] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:42:57] <cradek> I think I can have the pump off in another hour or two (assuming I have the right metric bolts for the gear puller)
[02:42:59] <jmkasunich> I'm quite enjoying sitting here listening to the machine make parts
[02:43:08] <JymmmEMC> I'm stripping out that control box I got yesterday... It has (what looks like) heat shrink tubing that has markings on it. eg +24, -24, 234A, etc... Is there a machine that does that, or does it come in a spool and you cut off what you need?
[02:43:42] <cradek> I'm more familiar with paper strips that wrap around and stick
[02:43:52] <cradek> yours sounds nicer
[02:43:56] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Yeah the T&B mark marking books
[02:44:05] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Yeah the T&B wire marking books
[02:44:36] <cradek> jmkasunich: did you end up single-pointing your internal threads?
[02:44:40] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:44:47] <cradek> neat
[02:45:16] <cradek> have you ever used radius comp in lathe mode yet?
[02:45:25] <jmkasunich> no, just tool offsets
[02:45:31] <JymmmEMC> It might be hard to see here... http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/2362457955_f8219b6ce0_b.jpg
[02:45:58] <cradek> JymmmEMC: oh I have seen those. I don't know what makes them though!
[02:46:21] <JymmmEMC> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2093/2362454437_4283718e5e_b.jpg
[02:46:25] <cradek> I like the stickers better. These turn yellow/brown after a while and you can't peel off a bit to get a fresh number
[02:46:37] <jmkasunich> I think its a machine that prints on the tubing
[02:47:10] <JymmmEMC> They look really nice... I always hate the number because they unroll, or get covered up.
[02:47:24] <JymmmEMC> (peel and loop ones)
[02:49:50] <JymmmEMC> http://www.wiremarker.com/
[02:50:00] <JymmmEMC> "shrink tubing printer"
[02:50:51] <fenn> can also print perpendicular to the label tape direction for wrapping labels around wire
[02:51:19] <fenn> just plain label tape, not heatshrink tubing
[02:51:51] <JymmmEMC> I kinda like the idea of printing on shrink tubing though.
[02:52:09] <JymmmEMC> http://www.wiremarker.com/k4100-labeler.html
[02:52:25] <fenn> it's a lot more expensive, and then you have to be able to slide the tubing over the wire
[02:52:51] <JymmmEMC> Usually in a control box, you always will be able to slip it on
[02:53:05] <JymmmEMC> You just have to REMEMBER to do it first =)
[02:54:42] <JymmmEMC> Ok Kroy 5100 handheld portable printer is $360
[02:55:14] <JymmmEMC> http://www.buyheatshrink.com/heat-shrink-label-printers/kroy-k5100.htm
[02:55:21] <fenn> now check out the prices for the special heat shrink tubing
[02:56:52] <JymmmEMC> Actually, not as bad as I thought it would be.... http://www.buyheatshrink.com/heat-shrink-label-printers/desktop-label-printers.htm#B
[02:57:01] <JymmmEMC> (scroll down a bit)
[02:58:14] <fenn> ok that's not too bad
[02:59:04] <fenn> the ones i saw were not continuous heatshrink - more like a machine gun belt
[02:59:32] <JymmmEMC> 3/8" @ 40ft = $25, not to shabby at all
[03:00:00] <JymmmEMC> forget that, I was looking at the wrong thing.
[03:00:42] <JymmmEMC> Still, 110" and you would normally be using 1/2" or less, that 200 labels nicely printed.
[03:04:49] <fenn> typically there is a minimum label length, about 1.5" on my label printer
[03:05:14] <fenn> it's 3:1 shrink tubing btw
[03:05:59] <JymmmEMC> fenn: That actually seems better (3:1)
[03:07:40] <fenn> yeah i like it better than 2:1
[03:08:46] <JymmmEMC> There's a PC based printer for $180
[03:09:17] <JymmmEMC> but I think a stand-alone might be better,; guess I could always carry a laptop.
[03:21:04] <JymmmEMC> As little as $90 http://www.buyheatshrink.com/dymo-label-writer/rhino-5000-heat-shrink-tubing-printer.htm
[03:21:32] <JymmmEMC> Though price of supplies doubled =)
[03:25:23] <JymmmEMC> Well, shit... this POS is $45 and only one digit at a time ( I have some of these, never used them)
[03:26:27] <JymmmEMC> Wire marker books $4.50 http://www.contractorlighting.com/wire-marker-booklet-4690-p-225.html?osCsid=511bb4019d60bbe2285c7cfde27dd69b
[03:32:23] <tomp> JymmmEMC: i dotn see the 90$ on that page
[03:32:53] <tomp> i like this idea, i just degreased a pretty slimey machine, and most of the markers fell off
[03:33:58] <tomp> i know where they go, but the other guys would have to break out the prints and a 'sniffer'
[03:34:32] <tomp> the kroy 3000 is 200$ it prints shrink tube too
[03:34:52] <tomp> uh make that the 3100-pc
[03:41:43] <tomp> 100$ dymo rhino rp-5000 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001EMKDA/interactiveda603-20
[03:42:12] <tomp> but if my handwriting wasnt crap, i could just buy the tubing and a suitable pen ;)
[03:42:50] <tomp> (and the wires were'nt 22ga... wonder if they have shrinkable flag type stuff )
[03:45:41] <eric_U> I can't remember how to open a file in c anymore
[03:45:48] <eric_U> stdlib spoiled me
[03:48:38] <eric_U> kdevelop might drive me crazy, they parse everything as you type it it
[03:50:02] <fenn> JymmmEMC: i think the rhinopro is the best label printer
[03:50:07] <fenn> the 5000 that is
[03:50:46] <fenn> well, as far as label printing goes.. heatshrink is another story
[03:50:51] <eric_U> you guys have been talking about label printers for over an hour
[03:50:58] <eric_U> I though I had a wiring fetish
[03:51:31] <eric_U> job interview question: have you ever had an hour long discussion about wire markers?
[03:51:39] <tomp> FILE *fp; if ((fp = fopen ("filename","r")) == NULL) { printf ("File could not be opened\n"); error_handler(); }
[03:51:53] <eric_U> thanks tomp, needed that:)
[03:52:06] <fenn> oh oh i'm too slow
[03:52:28] <tomp> its funny when i hear myself say 'fopen'
[03:52:41] <fenn> is that one word or two?
[03:54:03] <tomp> there the K-sun tube labelers for the cheap bastards like me
[03:54:11] <eric_U> sharpie
[03:54:16] <tomp> yeah
[03:55:27] <fenn> i wonder if you can just buy the thermal transfer head somewhere
[03:55:38] <eric_U> ebay
[03:55:42] <eric_U> attached to a printer
[03:55:59] <fenn> gee thanks eric
[03:56:16] <fenn> i've looked inside my dymo printer - it's all ASIC's
[03:56:20] <eric_U> glad I could help
[03:56:38] <tomp> and use the thermal head to put elvis on toast
[03:56:56] <tomp> dot matix toast, yum
[03:57:27] <eric_U> tomp, once I have that file pointer, do I have to use fprintf?
[03:57:56] <fenn> tomp: it's more like toner transfer in a laser printer
[03:58:08] <fenn> except with hot needles instead of a laser
[03:58:09] <tomp> to print to a file yes, (printf to std, fprintf to file, sprintf to strg )
[03:58:23] <eric_U> I like the evil mad scientist toast printer
[03:58:30] <toastydeath> i hate you guys
[03:58:43] <fenn> why toast?
[03:58:44] <toastydeath> stop making my window higlite
[03:58:46] <toastydeath> *highlite
[03:58:55] <eric_U> come on boys, sing along, you know the words
[03:59:14] <fenn> yeah toast! brap brap ratta tat tatta tatta rat tat
[03:59:26] <tomp> yes, 'our lady of guadalupe' knockoffs on toast, gets you into the enquirer
[03:59:31] <eric_U> "I hate you guys" "you guys are a-------es" "especially kenny" "I hate him the worst"
[03:59:44] <tomp> kennys dead !
[03:59:59] <eric_U> they killed kenny -- bastards
[04:00:19] <tomp> for my own good bye bye
[04:01:10] <eric_U> didn't even get to say goodbye, ...sniff...
[04:05:04] <eric_U> funny, turns out I can't count to 35 much less schfiftyfive
[04:09:44] <fenn> is schfifty greater or less than eleventy?
[04:10:22] <eric_U> what you say?
[04:11:48] <toastydeath> main screen turn on!
[04:12:03] <fenn> ^A^0
[04:12:39] <eric_U> hey, little girl, you want to know a secret? do not watch this video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQEFitasDno
[04:12:50] <fenn> is it about rabbits?
[04:13:08] <eric_U> it's about counting to schfiftyfive
[04:14:06] <eric_U> one of the grad students made a movie of a fatigue crack
[04:14:11] <eric_U> cracking
[04:14:16] <eric_U> we should post it on youtube
[04:14:41] <eric_U> will they take avi files?
[04:20:15] <eric_U> classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBuuVd0JlIM
[04:24:15] <eric_U> at about 3 seconds, some spots appeared. the ultrasonics slipped and they got grease all over everything
[04:24:21] <eric_U> had to stop and clean it off
[04:24:29] <fenn> cool
[04:25:04] <fenn> that's real time?
[04:25:12] <eric_U> no, it took hours
[04:26:03] <eric_U> usually takes a couple of hours just to initiate
[04:38:13] <JymmmEMC> eric_U: The right tool for the job man,
[04:39:45] <JymmmEMC> eric_U: When you have 200+ wires to connect up, troubleshoot, etc marking them is the one and only thing that'll save you hours and hours of grief, headahce,s and agravation
[04:40:22] <eric_U> it's a good idea, but you guys did talk about it for an hour :)
[04:41:10] <JymmmEMC> and will probably talk some more too... while it seems like a small thing, it can mean a lot of time saving too.
[04:43:49] <JymmmEMC> I once was wiring up a 5HP motor to 220 3ph, connected the #6 wire closed the panel, and hit the power switch. Totally blew out the motor and filled the shop with smoke. That "#6" was really "#8" where it had rubbed off the wire from the factory. So yes, an hour long dicussion on wire markers is a big deal.
[04:44:31] <eric_U> I hooked up a 10hp motor and blew the power for half the building
[04:44:41] <eric_U> then the electrician came and blew the power again
[04:45:17] <JymmmEMC> eric_U: My point was, what seems like such a little thing can really be very a significant decision.
[04:46:17] <JymmmEMC> okey back to watching SAW IV (great so far)
[05:05:50] <eric_U> fenn_ turns out I am not sufficiently appreciative of the value of label printers
[05:13:55] <eric_U> why does gcc give a warning if there is no newline at end of file?
[05:55:32] <The_BallJ> eric_U, to warn you the file might have had it's end nibbled off
[05:56:01] <eric_U> that's what syntax errors are for :)
[05:58:13] <eric_U> I hate programming in c
[08:46:09] <Vq^> eric_U: it's an old unix standard for text-files i believe
[09:05:15] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[13:49:55] <micges> hello
[13:50:30] <micges> Is there any known problem that make xemc not starting ?
[13:51:02] <jepler> not known to me
[13:51:04] <jepler> but I don't use xemc
[13:51:35] <micges> when I compile --run-in-place xemc is not in emc/bin directory
[13:52:05] <jepler> look carefully at the output when you ./configure; it probably indicates that a necessary development header (for the Xaw library) is not installed on your system.
[13:52:55] <micges> ok
[13:53:24] <jepler> micges: specifically, the configure test seems to be this line:
[13:53:24] <jepler> checking for XawDialogGetValueString in -lXaw... yes
[13:53:58] <jepler> and this line, just before it:
[13:53:58] <jepler> checking for X11/Xaw/XawInit.h... yes
[13:55:15] <micges> yep I haven't Xaw
[13:56:02] <micges> I think that .configure should somehow indicate that something is missing
[13:56:16] <micges> anyway thans jepler
[13:56:35] <jepler> it did, but that condition is not an error for all users -- in fact, relatively few users will ever choose to use xemc.
[13:57:32] <micges> I know that
[13:58:13] <micges> I use xemc only to teach how to emc interfaces talk to nml messages
[13:58:58] <micges> couse axis is to complicated to dig in
[14:07:08] <micges> it works, thaks again
[14:36:00] <JymmmEMC> Morning folks
[14:59:01] <alex_joni> micges: you can also look at halui
[14:59:08] <alex_joni> which is a *very* simple emc2 interface
[14:59:26] <alex_joni> also there is code in emcrsh or something like that, which you could already use
[14:59:30] <JymmmEMC> micges: but only if you're from HAwaii ;)
[15:00:24] <micges> :)
[15:02:46] <cradek> those are all mostly just copies of xemc with the X part ripped out
[15:03:26] <JymmmEMC> On most wiring diagrams, the wires are usually numbered the same on both ends (eg #14), is that preferred over the destination?
[15:04:53] <BigJohnT> sometimes we use both, the wire numbers stay the same until it goes through something like a switch
[15:05:27] <BigJohnT> like you might have 25 #2 wires for the neutrals running all over the place....
[15:05:42] <tomp> in hal we speak of the signal name (net) and the devices the net connects to, so i 'spose the wire number vs the dest is correct.
[15:05:45] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: If you're wiring "on the fly" you prefer # or designation?
[15:07:42] <BigJohnT> after consulting with my other brother John (he is the expert on wiring) he said he generally will grab a number book and a tablet and take off wiring....
[15:08:09] <BigJohnT> however if it connects to a plc he puts the Inn or Onn on the wire
[15:08:48] <BigJohnT> what ever makes the most sense to you is the best
[15:09:13] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: ok, that makes sense =)
[15:09:35] <archivist> my OB truck has signal names
[15:10:02] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT needs to make some chips...
[15:10:20] <archivist> as well as numbers depends on wire
[15:10:54] <JymmmEMC> Oh this is so cool (ok, I can be somewhat easily amused in certain cases) This safety relay has four 4C removable terminals, they placed lil red tags on the removable contacts as well as on the relay so you dont muck up the placement.
[15:11:38] <JymmmEMC> Socket 1: ||..
[15:11:48] <JymmmEMC> Socket 2: ..||
[15:12:16] <JymmmEMC> Socket 3: .|.|
[15:12:27] <JymmmEMC> Socket 4: |.|.
[15:14:48] <tomp> a simple lo-tech solution, writable labeling tape for harsh environments, 40yards 13$ http://www.bestlabdeals.com/WRITE_ON_LABEL_TAPE_p/bamp057.htm ( couldnt find the brand i used to use )
[15:15:35] <JymmmEMC> I found wire books for $4.50, I'd take those over writing by hand =)
[15:16:44] <JymmmEMC> the books I have are VERY VERY OLD and dont stick too well anymore
[15:17:55] <tomp> books make it hard to say "fill pump overload" but easy for "127"
[15:17:59] <BigJohnT> we cheat and use Kroy heat srink wire labels and self sealing wire labels
[15:18:25] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: I was just looking at those printers last night, which one do you have and how do you like it?
[15:18:44] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: I was looking at the tubing ones
[15:20:39] <JymmmEMC> The dymo printer is cheaper, but supplies are double the price http://www.buyheatshrink.com/dymo-label-writer/dymo-replacement-labels.htm#heatshrink
[15:21:14] <JymmmEMC> Inverse on the Kroy http://www.buyheatshrink.com/heat-shrink-label-printers/index.htm#K5100
[15:22:26] <JymmmEMC> http://www.buyheatshrink.com/heat-shrink-label-printers/Pictures/5100_tubing%20Large.jpg
[15:24:07] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: The ONLY thing I question is how much lead (empty tape) does it add to the beginning and end of each one... I hate having to always trim the extra off to fit in small areas.
[15:27:43] <tomp> agreed, my dymo flat labeler wastes a lot
[15:29:28] <JymmmEMC> tomp: I understand that (in a way), but I just hate having to trim them afterwords. Bugs the crap out of me =)
[15:29:55] <tomp> yes, i agreed
[15:31:23] <JymmmEMC> I guess I'll just have to think before hitting the PRINT button [ +24 +24 L N GND GND ]
[15:31:54] <JymmmEMC> then cut out the one in the middle, but at least no lil snippets all over the place
[15:38:11] <bill20r3> Anyone know if there is a common convention for stepper wire colors? I have a motor I cant find a datasheet for. 2 each of yellow/red/black/grey wires.
[15:38:55] <BigJohnT> JymmmEMC: when my other brother John makes labels he does what you mentioned to avoid the wasting of material
[15:39:16] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: Cool, do you know which model kroy?
[15:39:30] <BigJohnT> K3000-PC
[15:39:42] <BigJohnT> I was over making chips just got back
[15:40:09] <BigJohnT> it will print heat srink or self laminating
[15:40:32] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: how permanent is the printing?
[15:40:50] <JymmmEMC> can it eventually rub off to make a 8 look like a 6 ?
[15:41:03] <JymmmEMC> (guess why I ask =)
[15:41:16] <BigJohnT> the heat srink is the best ones
[15:41:35] <BigJohnT> JohnM just gave me a lecture on the sticky ones
[15:41:57] <BigJohnT> he said you have to cut or burn off the heat srink ones
[15:42:44] <BigJohnT> bill2or3: there is a page somewhere on how to ohm out the wires to tell...
[15:42:51] <JymmmEMC> good to know, wasn't evne considering the labels, just the tubing
[15:43:28] <bill20r3> john, I can figure out which wires are per-coill-pairs, but I dont know how to figure out the polarity of the coils.
[15:45:16] <BigJohnT> I'm not an expert on it but remember a web page somewhere maybe on the Gecko web site that told how to tell what is what
[15:46:18] <BigJohnT> http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf
[15:46:57] <bill20r3> cool, maybe there's some tip in there that I haven't thought of.
[15:47:01] <bill20r3> I'll give it another read.
[15:47:39] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich wrote up an article on that, hang on...
[15:48:00] <BigJohnT> I knew I seen it somewhere
[15:48:58] <JymmmEMC> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?StepMotorWireIdentification
[15:49:31] <JymmmEMC> Just FYI... google "stepper wiring site:linuxcnc.org"
[15:49:37] <JymmmEMC> or
[15:49:52] <JymmmEMC> Just FYI... google "what you want to search for here site:linuxcnc.org"
[15:50:08] <archivist> or dont worry about polarity just swap if motor goes the wrong way
[15:51:48] <BigJohnT> now you got the other John started he just ordered a K5100 for when we are out in the field...
[15:51:59] <bill20r3> I think I need to know the polarity, because I need to wire it unipolar.
[15:52:22] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: Good, you can send the old one to 1 Main St........ ;)
[15:53:03] <BigJohnT> I think he still wants that one for when we are building machinery here in the shop...
[15:53:35] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: Since the 3100 is cheaper, how do you guys link it? I notice it was serial only.
[15:53:59] <archivist> bill20r3, stepper motors are better run bipolar if you can
[15:54:04] <JymmmEMC> s/link/like/
[15:54:05] <BigJohnT> It has it's own computer! an old 486
[15:54:29] <bill20r3> yeah, I know. I'm showhorning the motor into an existing driver circuit.
[15:54:36] <bill20r3> err, shoehorning.
[15:55:20] <bill20r3> I need to find a simple-to-make stepper driver circuit. (not for CNC stuff, but smaller fun projects)
[15:55:56] <BigJohnT> tear apart an old 5 1/4 drive some of them have a usable one
[15:57:14] <bill20r3> I'm was using a unipolar kp4m4 floppy motor, but it wasn't stout enough, which is why I'm switching to these larger unipolar motors.
[15:58:35] <BigJohnT> ok
[15:58:44] <bill20r3> I'm making a 'sand table' plotter. I got a batch of these, they seem like they'll be good enough: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250223087645
[15:59:05] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: My laptop has a serial port, plus I found a usb-to-serial cable, so eh. I like the idea of no software to muck with "JUST PRINT THE DARNING THING ALREADY!" approach ;)
[16:01:20] <BigJohnT> JymmmEMC: you have to run the K3000 with software...
[16:01:33] <BigJohnT> the K5100 is JPI
[16:01:58] <BigJohnT> he saves some of the standard ones in the pc
[16:03:09] <archivist> bill20r3, if 2 reds are 1 coil then some guess work
[16:04:09] <bill20r3> they're separate, it's like two 'motors' on one shaft, the wires exit the case in two different groups of 4 each (R/Y/B/Gr).
[16:04:37] <BigJohnT> is it a double stack motor?
[16:04:49] <archivist> thats just top/bottom coils
[16:06:49] <bill20r3> I'm not familiar with the term 'double stack'
[16:07:23] <BigJohnT> two motors together on one shaft
[16:07:29] <BigJohnT> I think
[16:07:48] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT seems to remember reading about it somewhere....
[16:08:20] <bill20r3> here's a picture, if it helps: http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/c9/05/b4ec_1.JPG
[16:09:46] <archivist> if r/y is one coil then common r top bottom and similar fo other coil
[16:10:26] <bill20r3> * bill20r3 thinks.
[16:10:41] <bill20r3> hrm.
[16:10:52] <archivist> and google the motor maker they may well have wiring details
[16:10:57] <bill20r3> I have 14 of them, maybe I should just bust one open and take a look inside.
[16:11:07] <archivist> nah
[16:11:07] <bill20r3> google finds nothing, I've looked extensively.
[16:11:20] <archivist> just use them
[16:11:21] <bill20r3> I assume it was a custom-run and they're surplus motors
[16:11:36] <archivist> ive seen the name before
[16:12:16] <bill20r3> yeah, they make a variety of motors(and other stuff), just cant find any datasheets for these, or anything similar enough to be in the same product line.
[16:13:12] <archivist> if you get it wrong they dont turn nicely, just reverse the wires try again
[16:14:46] <bill20r3> yeah, I suppose you're right.
[16:15:11] <bill20r3> I hate trying to figure out the sequence, with the screwy polarity it'll be even worse.
[16:15:21] <bill20r3> I guess I just need to sit down and take the time to do it.
[16:17:42] <gene> Humm, this makes the 2nd or 3rd time I've come to the shop, to find konversation logged into some sstrangly name irc channel with no traffic showing
[16:17:55] <gene> anybody have a clue whats going on?
[16:35:38] <birni> hello
[16:35:47] <birni> i could use some help, if anybody has time
[16:36:42] <archivist> just ask and hang about till someone who knows answers
[16:38:29] <BigJohnT> you gotta ask the question before anyone knows if they can help or not
[16:38:56] <birni> i've been successfully using emc2 for some time now to fabricate MCBs on Ubuntu 7.10. Some time ago, i got a dedicated computer for my machine and removed emc from the old one.
[16:39:24] <birni> However, the parallel port on the old one doesn't work anymore.
[16:39:53] <BigJohnT> for your printer?
[16:40:25] <birni> I wanted to use it with avrdude to program microcontrollers, which worked before i installed emc, and it still works when i use a Ubuntu live cd.
[16:41:00] <BigJohnT> I can't really help with that just trying to clearify the question that would be for the linux gurus
[16:42:34] <birni> i just thought someone could have had a similar problem. emc is the only thing that works with my printer port now...
[16:42:52] <birni> looks like i have to set up the whole system again now.
[16:43:49] <BigJohnT> I'm sure someone can help but they might not be around at the moment, you might try the mailing list...
[16:44:43] <BigJohnT> Milling a chamfer on a hole
[16:45:05] <bill20r3> what os are is it that the port does not work with?
[16:45:19] <birni> It's Ubuntu 7.10
[16:45:23] <bill20r3> (please pretend that sentance makes sense)
[16:45:30] <BigJohnT> ToolPath = CircleDiameter -(2 * TipOffset)
[16:45:35] <birni> ;-)
[16:46:03] <BigJohnT> Depth = TipOffset + ChamferWidth
[16:46:06] <bill20r3> does the port device exist (in /dev), and not work, or does it not exist at all?
[16:46:07] <BigJohnT> YEA!
[16:47:24] <birni> it didn't exist in the first place, but "sudo mknod /dev/parport0 c 99 0 -m 660" fixed that.
[16:48:02] <bill20r3> and what error does avrdude return?
[16:49:26] <cradek> the emc2 package prevents the loading of the parport_pc kernel module by installing a file in /etc/udev.
[16:50:34] <birni> "avrdude: can't claim device "/dev/parport0": No such device or address". From what i have seen from it's source code, it can't claim the device.
[16:51:48] <cradek> however there are no emc2 packages for ubuntu 7.10
[16:52:10] <birni> I used the experimental packages
[16:52:12] <bill20r3> are you trying this as root?
[16:52:18] <bill20r3> or at least with sudo.
[16:52:24] <birni> sudo
[16:52:28] <cradek> do you want to use a parport-based cnc machine?
[16:52:46] <bill20r3> let me loohmm.
[16:53:20] <bill20r3> Does 'lsmod | egrep parport' show the module loaded ?
[16:54:03] <birni> i used the parport with avrdude first, but it stopped working when i installed emc (which worked). lsmod prints "parport 37448 2 ppdev,lp"
[16:54:12] <cradek> I KNOW
[16:54:14] <cradek> listen to me
[16:54:22] <cradek> emc2 prevents the loading of the parport_pc module
[16:54:32] <cradek> if you want to run steppers on your parport this is necessary
[16:55:05] <cradek> so do you want emc to use the parport, or not?
[16:55:32] <birni> not anymore. my machine is connected to another pc now.
[16:55:47] <bill20r3> birni, sounds like the parport_pc module needs to be loaded.
[16:55:54] <cradek> ok then you could use the simulator on this machine.
[16:55:55] <bill20r3> 'sudo modprobe parport_pc'
[16:56:01] <cradek> bill20r3: please stop
[16:56:15] <bill20r3> heh, am I just confusing the issue?
[16:56:17] <bill20r3> * bill20r3 stops.
[16:56:17] <cradek> yes
[16:57:09] <cradek> birni: if you uninstall/purge emc2, your parport will start working again
[16:57:15] <cradek> apt-get remove --purge emc2
[16:57:31] <cradek> then you can build emc2 as a simulator if you need that
[16:58:05] <birni> i removed emc2 and rtai in synaptic
[16:58:21] <cradek> if you were using dapper I know there are emc2-sim packages. I don't know what you've installed here so I don't know if you can find a similar package that's -sim
[16:58:43] <cradek> you can always compile emc2 run-in-place/simulator (on any system)
[17:00:28] <BigJohnT> birni: some info at the bottom of this page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[17:18:06] <birni> cradek: i don't neet emc2 on this pc any longer, since i now have another machine for that. I found the file in /etc/udev you mentioned and removed it and the script it calls.
[17:18:10] <birni> BigJohnT: thanks for that link, I did't read the "Uninstalling"-Section so far. I have now removed /etc/init.d/realtime.
[17:18:10] <birni> Thanks, all! I'll be right back if it works. If not, I've just ruined my system ;-) (Not that I wouldn't have reinstalled it anyways to get the parport running...)
[17:31:34] <birni> well it did NOT work. i think i'll put an end to that now, i've messed this about for long enough anyways. thanks for the help and your patience, though.
[19:15:26] <micges> bbl
[22:34:41] <tomp2> i'm ordering a b axis with a yaskawa motor and amp, +/-10C control signal
[22:34:41] <tomp2> the manufacture of the axis says they only test with fanuc motors
[22:34:41] <tomp2> i said no, thats not what i will buy
[22:34:41] <tomp2> they think it's hard for thier fanuc cnc to control a yaskawa analog command drive
[22:34:41] <tomp2> is there any reason to think it IS difficult?
[22:45:42] <granthes> I've noticed that there are several mentions of encoder drift errors when using the Motenc LIte card in the mailing list archives. Is this still an active issue or is there a fix for it?
[22:46:26] <granthes> I'm seeing almost 1.5" of drift on my X axis and about .25" on Y and Z...
[22:47:51] <tomp2> way way too much, that must be tens of thousands of counts missed. you must contact the manufacturer
[22:48:32] <tomp2> and you must check your wiring and signal integrity ( prepare for battle!)
[22:49:24] <granthes> The encoders are 20000 pulse per inch. Is this likely a wiring issue or is it an issue with the Motenc board itself?
[22:49:58] <tomp2> dunno, i'd get out a scope, and the spec on the encoder and the motenc-lite. i dont use motenc-lite myself.
[22:50:13] <tomp2> nothing wrong with them in my opinion, i just dont use them
[22:50:25] <granthes> Ah. I see.
[22:50:48] <tomp2> you lost 30000 pulses tho, and that will prevent yopu from doing anything useful
[22:50:54] <granthes> I'm just getting started with a mill retrofit and have to make due with what's available... 8)
[22:51:11] <granthes> Too true. Just a quick 5" traverse and back hits my limit switches....
[22:52:35] <tomp2> you may be able to ... use emc2's hal to generate pulses to simulate an encoder's output, and feed that into the motenclite ( from parport to motenclite maybe)
[22:53:02] <tomp2> this would help you the health of the motenc lite's encoder inputs
[22:53:17] <tomp2> help you determine the health...
[22:53:22] <granthes> I see.
[22:54:01] <granthes> Would a parport input be able to keep up with the pulse train from the encoders? My max rate is only about 5 to 6 ips.
[22:54:17] <granthes> If the motenc isn't working, that is...
[22:54:56] <tomp2> yes, i dont knowthe specific rate but the parport is capable of much more than i expected... please ask this again as i am not sure.
[22:55:18] <skunkworks> on a decent computer you should be able to count close to 50khz. 20-30khz should be no issue
[22:56:09] <skunkworks> (that would be counting edges) 250cpr is 1000 edges.
[22:56:49] <granthes> Cool. I'll have to get a isolation board for the parallel port to connect that way, won't I? The encoders are 5Vdc.
[22:57:16] <tomp2> the isolation is the safe way,
[22:57:40] <granthes> Especially since it is a motherboard parallel port. 8)
[22:57:58] <tomp2> if you use a pci card parport, then you will likely not blow the motherboard, just the pci card
[22:58:46] <granthes> True. I appreciate the info and I'll see what I can find. Thanks very much!
[22:58:53] <tomp2> i hook pci card parports to 'experimenter breadboards' often ( but i'm crazy)
[22:59:00] <granthes> Hehe
[22:59:32] <granthes> Thanks again for the help... Signing out....
[22:59:39] <tomp2> bye
[22:59:43] <tomp2> me too, bbl
[23:19:08] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[23:52:29] <jmkasunich> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIvi6FT3CtY
[23:59:52] <fenn> i wonder if it was designed to do that