#emc | Logs for 2008-03-23

[03:16:12] <jmkasunich> I wish there was an easy way to lock down two of the jaws on a four-jaw chuck
[03:16:40] <jmkasunich> locate part 1 of 20, lock down two jaws, then when you insert parts 2 thru 20, just loosen and tighten the other two and it stays centered
[03:17:26] <jmkasunich> gonna put some tape over the screws for two jaws, so I don't forget and turn the wrong ones, but they could still creep
[03:17:53] <jmkasunich> btw, the reason I'm using a 4-jaw is that the work is square
[03:22:30] <SkinnYPupp> Sounds like faceplate work if it is worth setting up
[03:22:56] <jmkasunich> how would you clamp it? needs to clamp from the sides, like a chuck
[03:23:04] <jmkasunich> because the part gets faced and drilled
[03:24:05] <tomp> slip between 2 rails on faceplate, up against stop, open end of 3 walls has screw to force against stop, sides may have side screws ? ( not a lathe guy )
[03:24:43] <jmkasunich> that sounds like a 4 jaw with one (or two) screws locked down ;-)
[03:24:58] <tomp> well it was your idea ! ;)
[03:25:03] <cradek> if the screws were longer, you could just put a nut on the outside
[03:25:07] <SkinnYPupp> Box type vice using screws ?
[03:25:19] <cradek> but they'd only be the right length for a particular jaw setting
[03:25:52] <cradek> there are square 5C collets...
[03:26:00] <jmkasunich> I'm pretty committed to using the chuck - the job is big enough (20 pieces) that I don't want to mess around loading every piece, but not big enough to warrent spending lots of time on tooling
[03:26:00] <SWPadnos> hahaha
[03:26:01] <cradek> that's the real answer I bet
[03:26:04] <SWPadnos> ahem
[03:26:14] <jmkasunich> 2" square rules out the collets
[03:26:22] <cradek> oh
[03:26:32] <SWPadnos> is there even a through hole on that spindle? I don't remember
[03:26:41] <SWPadnos> I think there is - maybe 5/78 or something
[03:26:44] <jmkasunich> yes, 1-1/8" diameter
[03:26:45] <SWPadnos> err -5/8
[03:26:55] <SWPadnos> oh, that's a lot bigger than the older models then
[03:26:59] <jmkasunich> this isn't bar work, the parts are already bandsawed to length
[03:27:03] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:27:40] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna be attempting poor man's "gang tooling"
[03:27:49] <jmkasunich> I have a toolpost and a drill chuck mounted to the table
[03:28:20] <SWPadnos> hmmm. the tailstock actually had something like an MT2 taper, right?
[03:28:20] <cradek> neat
[03:28:26] <jmkasunich> MT3
[03:28:28] <SWPadnos> ok
[03:28:52] <SWPadnos> close :)
[03:28:54] <jmkasunich> I have a sleeve that MT3 on the inside, and straight on the outside - its in a V-block
[03:29:32] <jmkasunich> the v-block is on two sets of paired shallow steel wedges
[03:29:32] <SWPadnos> the tailstock goes on the ways, doesn't it? (ie, unusable in the CNC configuration)
[03:29:44] <jmkasunich> and the wedges are on parallels
[03:29:56] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: the tailstock is manually usable
[03:30:01] <SWPadnos> right
[03:30:18] <jmkasunich> you can have the program pull the table forward to clear the chuck, then towards the headstock
[03:30:27] <jmkasunich> then pause, print a message "drill a hole X deep"
[03:30:35] <jmkasunich> and let the user slide the tailstock forward and drill the hole
[03:30:51] <jmkasunich> slide it back, remove the drill, and hit continue
[03:31:00] <tomp> programming the operator :)
[03:31:03] <SWPadnos> yep - that's like I thought I remembered :)
[03:31:17] <jmkasunich> but for these parts, the hole depth is important, so I'm going the gang tooling route, let the CNC drill it
[03:32:05] <SWPadnos> and peck drill at that :)
[03:34:49] <tomp> fenn: Xandra, a vrml machine tool modeller, simulator, uses kinematic descriptions to relate parts (yes windows but the preview was cool ) "Xandra is a 3D visualization environment for machine tools. With Xandra you are able to load machine tool models in form of VRML Files, configure them and simulate kinematic/dynamic models with the loaded machine tool." at sourceforge
[03:35:04] <fenn> ooo
[03:35:19] <tomp> one of the demos was a hexapod, but didnt load
[03:36:06] <tomp> some source available
[03:36:39] <cradek> jmkasunich: make a video of some of your production run?
[03:38:02] <fenn> tomp: could you take a screenshot for me?
[03:38:41] <tomp> will try, i installed it at work this afternoon, now at home on linux
[03:39:51] <jmkasunich> cradek: if it works
[03:41:27] <cradek> on my "big" lathe I often have to move the tailstock several times to drill a hole. it has a tiny travel. your way sounds much better.
[03:43:16] <tomp> fenn: http://imagebin.org/15164
[03:43:44] <tomp> fenn: i cheated, its from the src zip bundle, didnt run under wine
[03:44:09] <jmkasunich> the travel on the shoptask tailstock is about 1.5 inches
[03:44:57] <jmkasunich> that's to the point where the screw disengages the quill, which you don't want to do (lots of stress on the very tip of the thread)
[03:45:06] <jmkasunich> really only about 1.4 usable
[03:45:53] <jmkasunich> and when all the way in, it ejects the chuck or whatever - if the tooling has a tang or is just longish, the travel drops more
[03:46:34] <cradek> will you have to spot drill first for these parts?
[03:46:59] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna attempt to make a divot with the facing tool
[03:47:05] <jmkasunich> just thinking thru the program now
[03:47:17] <jmkasunich> rough face (so I have a consistent starting length)
[03:47:21] <jmkasunich> make the divot
[03:47:23] <jmkasunich> drill
[03:47:25] <jmkasunich> finish face
[03:49:06] <fenn> thanks anyway tomp :)
[03:49:43] <tomp> ok, i sent another IM
[04:48:27] <tomp> g'nite
[05:52:24] <SkinnYPupp> Here's somthing different
[05:52:27] <SkinnYPupp> http://cgi.ebay.com/CHAIN-INDICATOR-HOLDER-MACHINIST-MILLWRIGHT_W0QQitemZ180225147362QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180225147362&_trksid=p3286.c58.l1288
[05:56:03] <JymmmEMC> Good movie... http://imdb.com/title/tt0768212/
[09:31:26] <awallin> anyone know how PID parameters are set from the INI file? (halcmd setp is run internally?)
[09:35:07] <awallin> I'm thinking about PID-tuning via a pyVCP panel again...
[10:06:09] <awallin> is this still correct for sources.list: deb http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/ dapper emc2 ??
[10:06:39] <awallin> I get "cvs.linuxcnc.org: temporary failure in name resolution"
[10:12:49] <awallin> maybe I just have something wrong with the dns servers...
[10:23:47] <micges> hello
[11:16:39] <alex_joni> hi micges
[11:33:54] <BigJohnT> ya beat me to it alex_joni
[11:35:21] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: :)
[11:35:32] <alex_joni> ok, here's a user point of view question
[11:35:50] <BigJohnT> ok
[11:35:50] <alex_joni> we have a ini setting called RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE
[11:35:58] <alex_joni> where would you expect it?
[11:36:11] <BigJohnT> in what section?
[11:36:21] <alex_joni> [EMC], [RS274NGC], [DISPLAY], [EMCIO], ..
[11:36:24] <alex_joni> yeah, what section
[11:36:45] <BigJohnT> let me look
[11:36:50] <alex_joni> without looking :P
[11:37:03] <alex_joni> I know where it *is* now..
[11:37:11] <alex_joni> I was just curious where you would expect it ..
[11:37:18] <BigJohnT> from your choices [RS274NGC]
[11:37:48] <alex_joni> we also have [TASK], [TRAJ], [AXIS_*], [HAL], [EMCMOT]
[11:37:54] <BigJohnT> I was going to look to see what section made the logical place not where it was now
[11:38:16] <alex_joni> I also think [RS274NGC] is the logical place
[11:38:25] <alex_joni> it even is like that in a couple of config files
[11:38:29] <BigJohnT> I still say [RS274NGC]
[11:38:31] <alex_joni> but that doesn't work atm
[11:38:40] <alex_joni> currently it's coded for [EMC]
[11:38:58] <alex_joni> which I think is wrong, as *theoretically* one could use emc with a different interpreter
[11:39:00] <BigJohnT> that's not logical
[11:39:14] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/2.2/html//config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BEMC%5D-Section
[11:40:47] <awallin> with the latest from CVS, is "pre-2.3 CVS HEAD" what I should be seeing?
[11:41:09] <alex_joni> yes
[11:41:24] <BigJohnT> so what settings do you put in [RS274NGC] that would be used by the interperter?
[11:41:31] <alex_joni> only the var file
[11:41:35] <alex_joni> and the startup code so far
[11:41:56] <BigJohnT> brb coffee is ready
[11:43:22] <awallin> alex_joni: I have an Ubuntu 6.06 under vmware, it probably runs a non-realtime kernel. is it correct if the update manager never suggests an update to 2.2.4? (since it probably detects I don't have real-time)
[11:43:28] <BigJohnT> ahhh the first cup of joe in the morning before the sun comes up
[11:44:02] <alex_joni> awallin: no, it's not
[11:44:16] <alex_joni> awallin: what's the installed version you have?
[11:44:21] <alex_joni> dpkg -l emc2
[11:45:05] <awallin> 2.0.5
[11:45:20] <alex_joni> awallin: then it's correct ;)
[11:45:28] <awallin> ah, ok.
[11:45:33] <alex_joni> you probably have emc2 in your /etc/apt/sources.list
[11:45:36] <awallin> a manual install of 2.2.4 then?
[11:45:47] <alex_joni> if you want a 2.1 or 2.2 install you need to change source.list
[11:45:48] <awallin> yes, www.linuxcnc.org
[11:45:58] <alex_joni> replace emc2 with emc2.2
[11:46:18] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[11:48:22] <awallin> hm, that's a cryptic way of saing "add four characters to your sources.list"
[11:49:21] <BigJohnT> wow I learned two new linux commands this morning from alex_joni
[11:49:27] <alex_joni> awallin: most users aren't aware there is a file called /etc/apt/sources.list
[11:49:35] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: which one?
[11:49:52] <BigJohnT> dpkg -l and dpkg -L
[11:50:06] <awallin> alex_joni: the package manager suggests 'sudo apt-get dist-upgrade'
[11:50:24] <alex_joni> awallin: is this breezy?
[11:50:51] <awallin> 6.06lts
[11:51:03] <alex_joni> hmm.. then don't do that
[11:51:06] <alex_joni> only apt-get update & upgrade
[11:52:13] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT searches for floating torch mounts on google to see what's been done before
[11:52:21] <awallin> 'the following packages have been kept back: emc2 emc2-dev'
[11:53:42] <alex_joni> awallin: apt-get install emc2
[11:54:05] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: I read that as floating point torch mount.. and it was like.. wtf?
[11:54:45] <BigJohnT> LOL
[11:55:50] <BigJohnT> my plan at the moment is to mount the torch on a floating mount and come down and "touch" the material and trip a micro switch that gives me the Z height of the material
[11:58:05] <awallin> hrm. "module rtai_hal does not exist in /proc/modules" even when selecting the sim/axis config
[12:01:44] <awallin> http://pastebin.org/24966 if anyone is interested
[12:01:51] <alex_joni> awallin: you can't run emc2 on a sim machine
[12:02:01] <alex_joni> not even with the sim/* configs
[12:02:13] <alex_joni> those are called sim, but they refer to a simulated machine, not simulated RT
[12:02:32] <alex_joni> if you want to run on a simulated RT machine you need the emc2.2-sim package
[12:02:42] <alex_joni> and emc2.2-sim in apt/sources.list
[12:03:11] <awallin> TRUNK works with --enable-simulator
[12:04:54] <awallin> couldn't find package emc2.2-sim
[12:04:59] <alex_joni> yup, that's the equivalent of emc2.2-sim
[12:05:11] <alex_joni> different package then the one you have installed :)
[12:06:00] <awallin> ok so how different are TRUNK and 2.2.4 right now?
[12:06:07] <alex_joni> hmm.. a bit
[12:06:12] <alex_joni> let me look
[12:07:27] <alex_joni> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/debian/changelog?rev=1.33
[12:07:35] <alex_joni> the changelog only has a very small number of changes
[12:07:49] <alex_joni> there are also named O-words in TRUNK
[12:08:02] <alex_joni> and a LOT of radical changes planned coming up
[12:08:13] <alex_joni> atm you can still run TRUNK with 2.2.x configs, but that's about to change
[12:09:00] <awallin> ok. with emc2.2-sim added to sources.list 'sudo apt-get install emc2.2-sim' still fails with couln't find package
[12:09:08] <awallin> please tell us more about the radical changes!
[12:10:14] <alex_joni> sorry.. the package name is emc2-sim
[12:10:26] <alex_joni> the repo is called emc2.2-sim
[12:10:31] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/dists/dapper/emc2.2-sim/binary-i386/
[12:10:45] <alex_joni> awallin: basicly cleaning up joint/axis issues
[12:10:59] <alex_joni> awallin: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?IniChanges
[12:11:17] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?JointsVsAxes
[12:12:31] <BigJohnT> while your at it why don't you add HOME_VEL to the list
[12:12:47] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: what do you mean?
[12:13:17] <BigJohnT> a setting for the velocity as you leave the home switch and proceed to the home position
[12:13:37] <BigJohnT> currently it's faster than rapid it seems
[12:14:09] <alex_joni> it should NEVER move faster than rapid ;)
[12:14:18] <alex_joni> if it does, it's a bug, which we need to fix
[12:14:45] <BigJohnT> it will jerk my machine farther than a rapid will
[12:14:46] <alex_joni> but I agree moving away from the HOME_OFFSET to HOME could be done at something other than rapid..
[12:15:20] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: it would be great if you can get a halscope snapshot proving that :)
[12:15:21] <BigJohnT> home search and home latch are nice peaceful slow moves then BAM you head for home
[12:15:43] <BigJohnT> I tried but couldn't get it to work like I expeceted
[12:16:40] <awallin> alex_joni: thanks, emc2-sim now works
[12:17:23] <alex_joni> awallin: please look at the docs around wiki and the docs at linuxcnc
[12:17:30] <BigJohnT> I think it would take less effort to just add a HOME_VEL to the code
[12:17:32] <alex_joni> and let me know where you feel we can improve things
[12:17:39] <BigJohnT> and I would if I could
[12:17:47] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: it's not that complicated :)
[12:17:55] <alex_joni> probably 20 mins of hacking
[12:18:16] <awallin> while you're at making changes, I still hope and wish the offset values could be made available to the intregrator through hal-pins for example (think pyVCP panel showing offsets!)
[12:18:16] <BigJohnT> what file is it in?
[12:18:29] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: oh, all over the code
[12:18:35] <alex_joni> awallin: hmm.. which offsets?
[12:18:42] <alex_joni> the ones in interp?
[12:18:49] <awallin> yes, G92 G54 and so on
[12:18:53] <alex_joni> they aren't relevant to the currently executed motion
[12:19:05] <alex_joni> as interp reads ahead (quite much actually)
[12:19:38] <alex_joni> you probably want the *current* offsets
[12:19:42] <alex_joni> which don't exist atm
[12:19:56] <alex_joni> awallin: I'm not sure how to do that
[12:20:10] <awallin> well, I can't imagine it's *impossible* to show these as hal pins. both the current ones and the ones not in use but stored in interp would be interesting
[12:21:51] <alex_joni> awallin: as it is now: interp reads the file and calls CANON commands
[12:21:59] <alex_joni> at that level offsets are already applied
[12:22:09] <alex_joni> CANON queues up stuff, and sends them to task
[12:22:16] <alex_joni> then task dispatches them to motion and IO
[12:22:42] <alex_joni> so it's 2-3 levels down (through all of these offsets would have to be added)
[12:23:30] <alex_joni> awallin: otoh, one of the nice things to have is offsets in UVW
[12:23:44] <alex_joni> where UVW is attached to the end-effector of a puma for example
[12:25:58] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: still there?
[12:26:17] <awallin> from a user perspective it is quite strange that there are g-codes to set the various offsets, but no way of qurying what is stored in all the registers
[12:27:08] <alex_joni> I think some are available as #vars
[12:28:30] <BigJohnT> I went for another cup of joe
[12:34:49] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT is looking at iniaxis.cc
[12:36:14] <BigJohnT> looks like a few things would have to be added to that file...
[12:39:33] <BigJohnT> looks like one line added to command.c
[12:43:07] <BigJohnT> there is even a FIXME on line 1693 of control.c for home vel
[12:43:50] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: still there?
[12:48:45] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT can grep now...
[14:05:40] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: I am now
[14:12:09] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: me too now
[14:12:32] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: still there?
[14:12:56] <alex_joni> yup
[14:13:17] <alex_joni> (only for 10-15 minutes though)
[14:13:32] <BigJohnT> ok, I found 3 files that need a couple of lines of code to add a HOME_VEL
[14:13:47] <BigJohnT> iniaxis.cc, command.c, control.c
[14:14:10] <BigJohnT> IF I knew how to do a diff I could try that
[14:14:14] <alex_joni> and a couple more :P
[14:14:20] <BigJohnT> files?
[14:14:23] <alex_joni> yeah
[14:14:27] <BigJohnT> hmmm
[14:14:31] <alex_joni> iniaxis works with EMC_*
[14:14:39] <alex_joni> command and control work with EMCMOT_*
[14:14:46] <alex_joni> (it's easy to confuse the two :)
[14:14:52] <alex_joni> there is another layer inbetween
[14:14:55] <alex_joni> nothing majour though
[14:15:50] <BigJohnT> there is a fixme on line 1693 of control.c for the home vel
[14:17:13] <BigJohnT> in iniaxis.cc around line 215 the homing parameter would have to be added
[14:17:34] <alex_joni> you must have another version than me
[14:17:39] <alex_joni> line numbers don't match :)
[14:17:46] <BigJohnT> it's been a while...
[14:18:10] <alex_joni> yup.. homing is a different file atm
[14:18:32] <BigJohnT> dang it I need to try and remember how to get the trunk
[14:18:37] <BigJohnT> again
[14:19:08] <alex_joni> ok, found it .. give me a couple of minutes to see what I can come up with
[14:19:11] <BigJohnT> I did a grep on home_search_vel and found the files real fast
[14:26:06] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: you were right.. no other level involved
[14:26:23] <BigJohnT> Sweet!
[14:26:38] <BigJohnT> I'm updating my cvs now
[14:26:46] <alex_joni> cvs up -dP
[14:28:06] <BigJohnT> thanks
[14:28:49] <alex_joni> hmm, nope.. I was right in the first place
[14:28:56] <alex_joni> homing params can be set from the GUI too..
[14:29:01] <alex_joni> so that needs updating too
[14:29:10] <alex_joni> give me 5 more mins, I'll have a patch for you
[14:29:25] <BigJohnT> Sweet!
[14:30:58] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: can you join #emc-devel ?
[14:31:34] <BigJohnT> not that I know of
[14:31:45] <BigJohnT> oh on irc?
[14:36:07] <micges> logger_emc: bookmark
[14:36:07] <micges> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-03-23.txt
[14:38:51] <renesis> hi cnc people
[14:44:41] <alex_joni> hi
[14:48:33] <micges> hi
[15:08:50] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: wheres that case cooling calculation page you did?
[15:11:04] <skunkworks> ? http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/cooling-02-13-07.html
[15:11:34] <JymmmEMC> thanks
[17:35:22] <tomp> what are the consequences of using 192.168.1.x on a local lan?
[17:40:05] <micges> tomp: windowses can have sometimes problems
[17:40:31] <tomp> thx
[17:41:20] <DanielFalck> tomp: I've used ssh here on my home system a lot and haven't had any problems - going between linux and mac os x machines
[17:45:22] <SWPadnos> 192.168.x.x are defined as a local lan
[17:45:38] <tomp> i was wondering about 192.168.1.x vs 192.168.0.x ( 192.168.0.x is what the spec suggests is used for privatenetworks along with 10.0-255.0.x and 172.16-31.0.x ranges , but to use 192.168.0x for class 'C' [home lans] )
[17:46:08] <SWPadnos> right -192.168.x.x is a set of class C "private" networks
[17:46:18] <SWPadnos> 10.x.x.x is a class A private network
[17:46:29] <tomp> ok , i didnt know 1.x was as good as 0.x, thx
[17:46:33] <SWPadnos> and the 172.whatever is for class B private networks
[17:46:54] <SWPadnos> sure
[17:48:52] <skunkworks> I have used both
[17:49:07] <SWPadnos> it helps to use only one at a time :)
[17:49:15] <tomp> big thx, now i am comfortable :)
[17:49:22] <skunkworks> some consumer routers use 0 - some use 1. (linksys uses .1 netgear uses 01
[17:49:25] <skunkworks> .0
[17:49:46] <SWPadnos> I inadvertently changed from one to the other when I did a router replacement, and suddenly the printer stopped working :)
[17:49:53] <skunkworks> heh
[17:50:10] <tomp> i use IPMASQ and a hub, so it's always my fault
[17:50:46] <SWPadnos> well, the network printer thing is something to look out for. otherwise you can change as often as you like (as long as you're using DHCP)
[17:51:32] <JymmmEMC> tomp: a hub?!
[17:51:43] <SWPadnos> arcnet :)
[17:51:44] <tomp> not a router, just a hub
[17:51:57] <JymmmEMC> tomp: a HUB?! why not a switch?
[17:52:03] <tomp> had one
[17:52:23] <SWPadnos> hmmm. how much file moving do you do on your local network?
[17:52:48] <SWPadnos> I guess if it's just one or two users, hub vs switch is pretty meaningless
[17:53:22] <tomp> a lot of files right now, trying to get things organized on one fileserver, just me and 4 desktops, one laptop
[17:53:32] <JymmmEMC> tomp: get a switch
[17:53:51] <tomp> will look, any suggestions for the cheap bastard in me?
[17:53:52] <SWPadnos> unless you have any 10base-T devices - that would bring the entire network down to 10mbit (unless you have a "dual-speed" hub)
[17:54:05] <JymmmEMC> -T ew
[17:54:06] <SWPadnos> they're under $50 from every major manufacturer at this point
[17:54:12] <tomp> cool
[17:54:15] <JymmmEMC> $10 from frys
[17:54:21] <SWPadnos> 10 < 50 :)
[17:54:25] <tomp> mobetta
[17:54:40] <JymmmEMC> unless you get a gigabit switch,
[17:54:49] <SWPadnos> how many of the client PCs are in use at a time?
[17:54:55] <tomp> one
[17:55:15] <SWPadnos> ok, any others doing downloads or file copies while you're using the one?
[17:55:21] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: he said he has a fileserver
[17:55:25] <SWPadnos> so what
[17:55:44] <tomp> yes, streaming on the masq server while pushing files around
[17:55:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: If it's running smb, it'll be shitting all over the place =)
[17:55:51] <SWPadnos> everyone talking to one machine means the difference between a hub and a switch is even more meaningless
[17:55:58] <tomp> no windows
[17:56:05] <JymmmEMC> tomp: streaming contant on the file server?
[17:56:37] <SWPadnos> masq server == file server, or two machines moving data back/forth in addition to the PC you're using at the time?
[17:56:59] <tomp> hmmm, havent done the file server yet, was still organinzing. the stream is just BBC radio while i work. i imagine masq server == file server eventually
[17:57:22] <SWPadnos> here's the deal: if you basically have only one pair of computers communicating at a time, then a switch isn't going to improve things much over a hub
[17:57:41] <tomp> got it
[17:57:48] <SWPadnos> if you have relatively large amounts of data, or frequent packets, going between more than one pair of computers, then a switch is a very good thing
[18:00:02] <tomp> ok, thx ( chewed on that one a bit :)
[18:00:07] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:06:07] <skunkworks> plus I remember there being some odd 100bT hub rules.. Like between a switch -> hub connections have to be less than 10ft or something like that.
[18:06:37] <SWPadnos> oh- one other thing that may not have been clear: if you have more than one computer talking to the same computer (two clients to a server, for instance), then a switch won't help
[18:07:21] <SWPadnos> no, the rule is that you can have at most a 100m cable from node to hub, 5m hub to hub, then 100m to the next node
[18:07:40] <skunkworks> That could be..
[18:07:42] <SWPadnos> max 2 hubs + 205m cable total from any node to any other node within a collision domain
[18:07:50] <SWPadnos> a switch separates collision domains
[18:07:58] <SWPadnos> so you can have as many as you want
[18:08:16] <skunkworks> I don't think we have any hubs anymore.
[18:08:20] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:08:51] <tomp> so 2 computers cant ssh into the same computer?
[18:08:54] <SWPadnos> I've still got one dual-speed (a 10-bT hub + 100bt hub + "switch" in one unit)
[18:08:57] <SWPadnos> sure
[18:09:13] <SWPadnos> err - yes, they can
[18:09:36] <SWPadnos> it's more a matter of how much data you want to move around
[18:09:46] <tomp> they can with a swx but not with a hub?
[18:09:59] <SWPadnos> with either
[18:10:01] <tomp> ok
[18:10:04] <SWPadnos> it's the amount of data
[18:10:32] <SWPadnos> if you have 5 computers all trying to use 2mbits of bandwidth, then the total is 10mbits and you don't need a switch
[18:11:25] <SWPadnos> if all those computers are connected to the same server, then a switch doesn't help anyway - all a switch does is connect any pair of ports on their own network (during a data transfer)
[18:11:47] <SWPadnos> so if you have 2 PCs doing something, and another 2 PCs doing something else, it's like they're on separate hubs
[18:12:20] <SWPadnos> but when you want to connect 2 clients to the same server, they still need to multiplex (the ethernet protocol takes care of that)
[18:12:38] <tomp> ah
[18:12:53] <JymmmEMC> a switch makes your lan nice and tidy (basically)
[18:13:21] <tomp> gotcha
[18:13:21] <SWPadnos> so it's only when you are either using a very large percentage of available bandwidth (like 70-100% maybe), and you want multiple data paths, that you need to use a switch
[18:14:01] <SWPadnos> there is another advantage of a switch: if a node goes belly up, it won't take down the whole network, which it can with a hub
[18:14:24] <JymmmEMC> tomp: Think of a hub as a dinner party where everyone is trying to have a conversation at the same time.
[18:14:41] <SWPadnos> oh, and another one - switches can set up a full duplex path between nodes - hubs can't
[18:15:03] <SWPadnos> it's like IRC ;)
[18:15:13] <tomp> haha
[18:15:23] <SWPadnos> a switch gives you a lot of private conversations
[18:15:29] <SWPadnos> a hub is a channel like this
[18:15:56] <SWPadnos> it makes no difference if you're trying to have a conversation with 6 people - there's still one of you, and you can only type into one window at a time
[18:16:11] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: wanna bet?
[18:16:13] <SWPadnos> with 3 separate conversations, it's a net gain
[18:16:15] <SWPadnos> yes
[18:16:49] <SWPadnos> unless you have some magic key event replicator, any keystroke you type will go to at most one window ;)
[18:16:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: dont make me release my evil bot on you ;)
[18:17:43] <SWPadnos> bot schmot
[20:10:14] <awallin> where are the standard "comp" HAL things documented? it used to be 'blocks'??
[20:13:58] <SWPadnos> man <whatever the comp name is>
[20:14:13] <SWPadnos> like man and2
[20:18:43] <awallin> yeah... just strange that they have dissapeared from the manuals
[20:20:55] <jepler> if you want it, the pdf version of the manual pages is http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/EMC2_Manual_Pages.pdf
[20:21:23] <awallin> ok. now I get 'operation not permitted' when trying loadrt freqgen
[20:21:55] <jepler> look in dmesg; the real error is there
[20:22:30] <jepler> for instance, if I specify step_type wrong, I get this in dmesg: [620012.465986] FREQGEN: ERROR: bad stepping type '33', axis 0
[20:22:34] <awallin> no channels configured...
[20:22:59] <jepler> you should specify step_type= with at least one value
[20:23:26] <jepler> bbl
[20:25:16] <awallin> step_type=type0 gives an error too
[20:25:30] <alex_joni> step_type=0
[20:25:31] <SWPadnos> step_type=0
[20:25:42] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was faster :P
[20:25:49] <SWPadnos> I was busy :P
[20:25:57] <alex_joni> yeah yeah.. excuses
[20:26:05] <SWPadnos> of course!
[20:28:15] <awallin> hrm. the update function is called freqgen.make-pulses, but the pins have the zero in it: freqgen.0.step what's the logic there??
[20:28:34] <alex_joni> it's only one update for all freqgen instances
[20:28:53] <alex_joni> the .0 denotes the first instance
[20:29:04] <alex_joni> but you could have <nr> of them..
[20:29:18] <alex_joni> so freqgen.update-pulses, and freqgen.*.*
[20:34:42] <awallin> I vote for changing all parameters to pins in freqgen! (parameters are not accessible to pyVCP and thus evil.)
[20:35:00] <alex_joni> awallin: sounds ok to me..
[20:35:10] <alex_joni> patches would speed this up :P
[20:35:53] <awallin> trying to get the vfd to spin the motor just now... maybe coding later next week...
[20:36:43] <alex_joni> awallin: there's still time till 2.3 ;)
[20:38:59] <awallin> hm, not getting any output from freqgen. I'm setting freqgen.0.frequency (the pin) to something (like 1000), but freqgen.0.frequency (the parameter) stays zero
[20:39:27] <alex_joni> did you put 1 on enable?
[20:39:38] <alex_joni> freqgen.0.enable
[20:39:44] <awallin> ah, let me check.
[20:40:07] <alex_joni> btw.. man freqgen says *OBSOLETE* over here :)
[20:40:46] <alex_joni> it will probably be removed by 2.3
[20:40:48] <awallin> for enable, or for the whole freqgen?
[20:40:55] <alex_joni> for freqgen
[20:41:12] <alex_joni> stepgen does the same thing, freqgen is only a subset of stepgen
[20:43:37] <awallin> I want a pulse-tran for setting the speed of the VFD. what's a good way to do that? siggen followed by comp?
[20:45:10] <SWPadnos> a step/dir pulse train?
[20:45:36] <awallin> just a square wave of varying frequency, 0-25 kHz is the default in the VFD but that can be scaled down a bit
[20:45:50] <alex_joni> pwmgen ?
[20:45:52] <awallin> there are separate pins for start/stop fw/rev
[20:46:12] <SWPadnos> stepgen in velocity mode is like freqgen
[20:47:14] <awallin> in pwmgen the frequency is set by a parameter, so no go
[20:47:22] <awallin> looking at stepgen
[20:47:28] <alex_joni> hmm..
[20:47:50] <alex_joni> you can run pwmgen in PDM mode
[20:47:56] <alex_joni> and use the value pin
[20:48:27] <SWPadnos> stepgen will do it, but won't give you a 50%-ish duty cucle square-wave
[20:48:29] <SWPadnos> cycle
[20:48:47] <jepler> stepgen in quadrature mode would
[20:49:08] <SWPadnos> oh, true
[20:49:23] <awallin> how is pwmgen set to PDM?
[20:50:26] <awallin> ah, pwm-freq=0
[20:50:27] <alex_joni> pwm-freq = 0
[20:52:44] <awallin> so in PDM mode, is value given in Hz?
[20:53:15] <SWPadnos> no
[20:53:37] <SWPadnos> I think you'll get essentially random speeds if you use PDM mode
[20:54:21] <SWPadnos> it uses a high frequency pulse train, but the frequecy isn't controller, it's just a result of whether the output needs "more" or not
[20:57:08] <SWPadnos> s/controller/controlled/
[20:59:03] <awallin> so it's stepgen I need then? does it have a velocity input?
[20:59:06] <alex_joni> hmm, right.. so stepgen type=0 ctrl_type=v is what you want
[20:59:26] <alex_joni> stepgen.0.velocity-cmd
[20:59:45] <SWPadnos> I think quadrature is the way to go, as jepler pointed out
[20:59:53] <SWPadnos> so maybe step_type=1 ctrl_mode=v
[20:59:57] <SWPadnos> (if 1 is quadrature)
[21:00:01] <alex_joni> hmm, right.. so stepgen type=2 ctrl_type=v is what you want
[21:00:07] <alex_joni> 1 is up/down :)
[21:00:10] <SWPadnos> oh :)
[21:01:07] <awallin> velocity-cmd seems to be undocumented?
[21:01:28] <alex_joni> awallin: I got it from man stepgen
[21:01:48] <alex_joni> (did you . scripts/emc-environment ?)
[21:02:07] <alex_joni> otherwise you get the manpages from the installed emc2, not the run-in-place version
[21:05:23] <alex_joni> stepgen.N.velocity-cmd float in (velocity mode only)
[21:05:25] <alex_joni> Commanded velocity, in length units per second (see parameter position-scale).
[21:06:08] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/stepgen.9.html
[21:08:02] <awallin> I must have old manpages. anyway now stepgen seems to work, next I'll power on the vfd...
[21:13:01] <awallin> right. if nothing works, try plugging in the thing!
[21:13:32] <awallin> yay, it gets the frequency reference
[21:13:49] <awallin> yay, it runs forward!
[21:14:02] <alex_joni> strap it to the desk
[21:14:05] <awallin> yay, it runs backward
[21:14:31] <awallin> yeah, from 0 to max rpm makes it jump a bit. it's a 1.5kW motor, max rated 3000rpm
[21:14:49] <alex_joni> yeah, wouldn't want that motor running away
[21:15:04] <alex_joni> you can set accels for stepgen
[21:15:23] <alex_joni> stepgen.0.maxaccel
[21:15:33] <alex_joni> (parameter though)
[21:15:36] <awallin> how about spindle-speed-out, does that just jump abpruptly to whatever is set by an S word?
[21:15:42] <alex_joni> yes
[21:15:52] <alex_joni> S0 -> 0
[21:15:58] <alex_joni> S1000 -> 1000
[21:16:02] <awallin> ok
[21:16:12] <alex_joni> no ramps, no waiting either
[21:18:55] <awallin> the vfd has accel settings too
[21:24:28] <alex_joni> awallin: does it have an at-speed output?
[21:25:36] <awallin> yes, haven't hooked that up. I'm going to use a spindle encoder too
[21:25:57] <alex_joni> you can use !at-speed with feed-hold
[21:29:28] <awallin> it seems for a pulse train of frequency f=1/T i need a period of T/4 ?
[21:29:49] <alex_joni> with step_type=2 ?
[21:29:58] <awallin> yes
[21:30:29] <alex_joni> sounds right (without pen & paper though)
[21:30:57] <awallin> with period=40 000 I get around 6 kHz (1/4*period would be 6.25khz)
[21:31:15] <awallin> what was the real-time test for testing how low period can reasonably be set?
[21:31:25] <alex_joni> latency-test ?
[21:32:37] <awallin> yeah
[21:34:22] <JymmmEMC> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#RTAI_Latency_test
[21:34:46] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: that's the rtai latency test, latency-test is the one provided with emc2
[21:35:12] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: the GUI one seems inaccurate
[21:35:48] <alex_joni> it's done using emc2 components
[21:35:56] <alex_joni> so emc2 will behave very similar to the GUI one
[21:36:02] <alex_joni> not to the rtai latency test
[21:36:19] <JymmmEMC> I've gotten way different readings between the two
[21:37:39] <alex_joni> I get about 11 usec on latency-test, I think a tiny bit lower with rtai's test
[21:38:19] <JymmmEMC> I get on the magnatude of 4x difference
[21:46:41] <awallin> got the scaling working too, now I get the full speed range with the 0-6kHz pulse train. thanks for the help guys.
[21:46:54] <alex_joni> awallin: glad it works
[21:47:25] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT is still d/l files...
[21:49:35] <awallin> gnight all
[21:53:54] <OoBIGeye> gnight
[21:54:30] <alex_joni> * alex_joni leaves too
[21:54:32] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:56:05] <BigJohnT> good night alex
[22:45:19] <eric_U> bleah
[22:46:26] <eric_U> sometimes dividing is better than shifting :(
[22:48:16] <BigJohnT> I like multiplying best
[22:48:28] <BigJohnT> we can't have a mine shaft gap