#emc | Logs for 2008-03-15

[01:44:50] <mozmck> anyone around?
[01:44:59] <SWPadnos> nobody but us chickens
[01:46:33] <mozmck> Does emc2 use floating point or integer math?
[01:46:59] <SWPadnos> floats for "continuous" numbers, ints where appropriate
[01:47:19] <mozmck> I'm toying with the idea of trying to run it on an embedded processor.
[01:47:24] <SWPadnos> which one?
[01:47:34] <mozmck> Don't know!
[01:47:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:47:51] <mozmck> Just researching and looking at what's out there.
[01:48:16] <SWPadnos> apparently there aer ARM chips with FP units - cirrus has some that are < $20
[01:48:37] <SWPadnos> s/aer/sre/
[01:48:38] <SWPadnos> gah
[01:48:41] <SWPadnos> you know :)
[01:48:51] <mozmck> What I was wondering is if an FP unit is necessary?
[01:49:12] <SWPadnos> that depends on what you're planning to put on the embedded chip
[01:49:36] <mozmck> My idea is nothing but linux and emc2.
[01:49:44] <SWPadnos> if you want the interpreter there, then I'd say FP is essential, since the input language uses floats (and arcs, and has math functions)
[01:50:15] <mozmck> I see.
[01:50:33] <SWPadnos> then again, if you're using a 200MHz ARM chip that can do a few thousand FOPS/sec, it may be enough to get by, the rest being done in fixed point
[01:50:50] <mozmck> hmmm...
[01:51:19] <SWPadnos> fixed point (32.32) on a 32-bit chip would be more precise than floats, which only have 24 bits of mantissa
[01:51:49] <SWPadnos> the interp uses doubles, when it gets to the RT parts, it's all single-precision floats
[01:52:06] <mozmck> I've seen these small SBCs and thought it would be interesting to run emc on one.
[01:52:12] <SWPadnos> (though we'd like to use doubles there as well - the 24-bit mantissa isn't enough in some cases)
[01:52:31] <mozmck> Why don't you?
[01:52:32] <SWPadnos> well, it's not impossible, but it may not be easy :)
[01:52:53] <SWPadnos> we need atomic updates, and 64-bit loads/stores aren't atomic on 32-bit CPUs
[01:52:59] <mozmck> Just some day-dreaming right now :-)
[01:53:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:53:31] <mozmck> atomic?
[01:53:46] <SWPadnos> can't be interrupted
[01:54:02] <mozmck> ah, single instruction...
[01:54:12] <SWPadnos> no, uninterruptible ;)
[01:54:14] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: blame the compilers
[01:54:34] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, no, blame the CPUs - let's not get into that again ;)
[01:54:43] <mozmck> which would mean it would have to be a single instruction wouldn't it?
[01:54:44] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: both
[01:55:31] <SWPadnos> there are single instructions that may take a long time - like REP stosb - that could be hundreds of thousands of cycles (it's a repeat loop), but unless you LOCK first, it's interruptible (IIRC - been a while for '386 assembly)
[01:56:27] <mozmck> I see. I don't know assembly but I'm learning some low level stuff programming microcontrollers these days.
[01:56:54] <SWPadnos> microcontrollers are much simpler environments than modern virtual-memory general purpose CPUs
[01:57:16] <SWPadnos> on a microcontroller, it's very likely that a single instruction is uninterruptible :)
[01:58:17] <SWPadnos> ah, yes - REP stosb is interruptible
[01:59:40] <mozmck> I see :-)
[02:04:20] <SWPadnos> EMC used to run on very slow (by today's standards) CPUs - like high end 486es and low end Pentiums (100 MHz range)
[02:04:31] <SWPadnos> those all had FP units though
[02:04:58] <SWPadnos> and way back then, EMC didn't do the PID (or step generation, at least at first)
[02:06:16] <mozmck> Atmel has a 32 bit chip that does 210 MIPS at 150 Mhz - about equivalent to an ARM9 at 200 Mhz
[02:06:23] <SWPadnos> the AVR32
[02:06:25] <SWPadnos> ?
[02:06:30] <mozmck> Yep.
[02:06:42] <SWPadnos> that's a cool chip
[02:06:54] <mozmck> I went to a seminar they did on it in Dallas and that got me thinking about it.
[02:07:19] <mozmck> It is.
[02:07:45] <SWPadnos> yeah - I got the STK1000 shortly after it became available
[02:08:20] <SWPadnos> it's a nice chip, but I have the concern that it's a one-chip wonder - there are no compatible chips from anywhere else, and it's a new line that may go nowhere
[02:08:34] <mozmck> Ah. Do you work with that stuff for a living?
[02:08:48] <SWPadnos> the peripherals are all based on the same bus they use in their ARM chips (like the AT91RM62xx)
[02:08:51] <SWPadnos> heh - yeah :)
[02:08:53] <mozmck> Interesting.
[02:09:20] <SWPadnos> I like the chip, and I hope it stays around long enough for me to use it in something
[02:09:23] <mozmck> I'm doing a bit of it now and it's fascinating.
[02:09:41] <mozmck> Yeah :-)
[02:09:48] <SWPadnos> no two days alike for a consultant
[02:09:54] <SWPadnos> that's the fun part
[03:32:57] <tomp2> ?? a reference listed by the Portugese students using EMC whazzdis? [1] HENRY DAN FALK, W. S. R. The Enhanced Machine Control - Developer Handbook. New York: [s.n.], 2003.
[03:32:59] <tomp2> site is http://www.pucrs.br/feng/mecanica/laboratorios/gp4c/proj-cnc.php
[03:33:16] <DanielFalck> wasn't me....
[03:33:47] <DanielFalck> I've never been to new york
[03:34:12] <tomp2> no prob Dan, was wondering if someone of that name was in the orig NIST crew
[03:34:19] <DanielFalck> no
[03:34:49] <DanielFalck> probably mixed up Ray Henry and my name somehow
[03:35:08] <tomp2> oh, like me reading Portugese, gotcha
[03:35:17] <DanielFalck> but I noticed all the refs were in New York too
[03:35:28] <DanielFalck> which was really weird
[03:35:44] <DanielFalck> maybe someone did a bit too much cut copy past : )
[03:35:56] <DanielFalck> paste
[05:52:12] <toastydeath> blammo
[08:06:54] <micges> morning all
[12:53:35] <BigJohnT_> where does AXIS get the Vel: number from?
[13:05:22] <micges> from TP (as I can see)
[13:06:59] <BigJohnT_> is motion.current-vel only for the X and Y axis, there is nothing in the manual for it
[13:07:08] <alex_joni> yup, actually TP puts it in stat, and AXIS gets it from there
[13:07:31] <BigJohnT_> TP?
[13:08:04] <micges> trajectory planner
[13:09:16] <BigJohnT_> ok I found the parameter
[13:12:10] <alex_joni> BigJohnT_: what do you need it for?
[13:13:10] <BigJohnT_> to tell when the X and Y axis is changing velocity
[13:14:04] <BigJohnT_> I found motion.current-vel and it is 1/60 of the vel of all axis
[13:14:43] <BigJohnT_> doing a watch window on all the tc items and nothing changes values as I run
[13:18:41] <micges> BigJohnT_: is the option Override Limits of AXIS working on your axis ?
[13:20:24] <BigJohnT_> micges: dunno let me check
[13:20:59] <BigJohnT_> yes it works when you are on a limit switch to allow you to get off of the switch
[13:21:24] <micges> thanks
[13:21:42] <BigJohnT_> ok, confused me too at first
[13:21:43] <micges> I must have bug on my config :P
[13:21:53] <BigJohnT_> how is that?
[13:24:04] <BigJohnT_> you have to trip a limit switch before you can check the override limits box
[13:27:06] <micges> Im not sure but It seems to
[13:36:49] <BigJohnT_> where do you find the TP pin in hal for X and Y velocity?
[13:39:30] <BigJohnT_> * BigJohnT_ bolts on the Z axis componets on the machine
[13:40:23] <tomp2> re: tp velocities... if hal can see it, then i'd guess you can see it with 'halcmd show pin' and if not, then hal wont/cant see it.
[13:40:50] <tomp2> i take that back, might be 'halcmd show' (dunno if its a pin)
[13:41:43] <BigJohnT_> in the hal config window I see tc.0.acc and vel and pos but the number doesn't change when I run
[13:41:54] <BigJohnT_> watch window
[13:42:25] <alex_joni> BigJohnT_: you don't have it in HAL by default
[13:42:31] <alex_joni> look at the sim configs
[13:42:36] <BigJohnT_> ok
[13:42:42] <alex_joni> they implement a couple of ddt's to generate vaelocity
[13:42:50] <alex_joni> out of the current position
[13:42:55] <alex_joni> iirc Xvel, Yvel, etc
[13:42:59] <alex_joni> gotta run now
[13:43:00] <BigJohnT_> ok like the Dallur config
[13:43:00] <alex_joni> bbl
[13:43:04] <tomp2> ok, so posn diff & time generate vel
[13:44:00] <BigJohnT_> I did a Ddt on xpos-fb and out to xvel and that works
[13:44:20] <BigJohnT_> bbl breakfast calls
[13:44:25] <tomp2> clever guy that Rugludallur
[13:44:26] <tomp2> bye
[14:07:25] <BigJohnT_> ok back
[15:13:52] <kenneth> hello ?
[15:15:52] <kenneth> :)
[15:16:12] <BigJohnT_> hi
[15:16:18] <kenneth> hi
[15:16:30] <kenneth> server slow or all busy ? :)
[15:16:52] <skunkworks> what server?
[15:16:55] <BigJohnT_> just putting in my z gecko drive
[15:17:22] <kenneth> irc server
[15:17:52] <kenneth> what's a gecko ?
[15:18:07] <skunkworks> Gecko is a popular stepping motor drive.,
[15:18:14] <kenneth> cool
[15:18:40] <skunkworks> http://www.geckodrive.com/
[15:18:42] <BigJohnT_> * BigJohnT_ loves my gecko 203v's
[15:19:11] <kenneth> stepper better then servo ?
[15:19:30] <BigJohnT_> for some applications yes
[15:19:35] <BigJohnT_> for others no
[15:19:44] <skunkworks> Heh - that is a interesting argument..
[15:19:48] <kenneth> 203v ????????? how big is your machine
[15:19:48] <skunkworks> :)
[15:20:08] <BigJohnT_> 50" x 50"
[15:20:12] <BigJohnT_> plasma cutter
[15:20:17] <kenneth> new to cnc
[15:20:26] <BigJohnT_> travels at 450IPM in rapid
[15:20:33] <BigJohnT_> your going to have fun then
[15:20:52] <kenneth> DAMN :) (excuse my french)
[15:22:11] <BigJohnT_> what did you have in mind for CNC?
[15:22:17] <kenneth> i read that wrong ...read 4501 imp
[15:23:21] <BigJohnT_> 450 inches per minute
[15:23:30] <kenneth> i know just read wrong
[15:25:17] <BigJohnT_> so what are you thinking about for CNC?
[15:26:00] <kenneth> we got a sherline tabletop mill....trying to learn codes
[15:26:27] <BigJohnT_> cool, what kind of codes?
[15:26:43] <kenneth> making small parts for computer components
[15:26:54] <kenneth> g and m
[15:27:45] <skunkworks> Are you using the emc1 bdi? or emc2?
[15:27:50] <kenneth> i'm trying to install emc2 on my home computer for over two months :(
[15:27:54] <skunkworks> ah
[15:27:55] <BigJohnT_> ok, you only have to know a few to get going G0,1,2,3
[15:28:11] <BigJohnT_> can you not get it to install or can't get it configured
[15:28:17] <kenneth> got emc at work and trying to get emc2 here
[15:28:27] <kenneth> installed
[15:28:39] <skunkworks> What problems are you having?
[15:28:52] <kenneth> i'm starting to think it's my sata drive
[15:29:30] <kenneth> i donwloaded a bunch of isos, but non get to install
[15:29:33] <BigJohnT_> I tried to install it on a windows box and finally just put a new hard drive in and it's been smooth sailing more or less since then
[15:29:40] <BigJohnT_> do the live cd
[15:30:03] <kenneth> i downloaded that also no good
[15:30:15] <skunkworks> Does it try to boot off of the livecd?
[15:30:30] <kenneth> i ordered the live cd from ubuntu....but not here yet
[15:30:55] <kenneth> yes, i can never get the ms5sum right
[15:31:09] <skunkworks> what are you using to burn the cd?
[15:31:20] <BigJohnT_> did you just copy the live cd to a disk?
[15:31:41] <kenneth> used poweriso in win and k3 in unbutu
[15:31:42] <BigJohnT_> skunkworks we are heading in the same direction I see LOL
[15:31:47] <skunkworks> :)
[15:32:10] <kenneth> i'm in ubuntu 6.06 now
[15:32:13] <skunkworks> The iso is like a zip file - the burning software needs to extract the information and burn the actual directorys to the cd.
[15:32:38] <kenneth> i got the kubuntu 7.1 live cd but cn't install emc...either one
[15:33:24] <kenneth> i get the files on the disk...i look after burning....files not just iso
[15:34:04] <kenneth> but i never boots to the live disk
[15:34:18] <skunkworks> what burning software?
[15:34:38] <kenneth> been inside my comp at least 3 times....alls good
[15:35:01] <skunkworks> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
[15:35:45] <kenneth> been there
[15:36:31] <kenneth> used k3d in ubuntu...kubuntu....debian and poweriso in winxp
[15:36:36] <BigJohnT_> do you have another computer that you can boot up the live cd on?
[15:36:56] <kenneth> tried that :(
[15:37:14] <skunkworks> So - you have 6.06 running right now?
[15:37:24] <kenneth> yes sir
[15:37:53] <kenneth> i get it installed here....but can't run it
[15:38:15] <skunkworks> explain
[15:38:21] <kenneth> is there a promission some where ?
[15:39:17] <skunkworks> you get it installed but can't run it? what does that mean? it installes - but won't boot after that?
[15:41:03] <kenneth> ubuntu is installed but can't get emx2 to work
[15:41:41] <kenneth> i'v used adept manager...csv...
[15:42:27] <BigJohnT_> did you install ubuntu 6.06 with the live cd?
[15:42:35] <BigJohnT_> from emc?
[15:42:57] <kenneth> i ordered that one
[15:43:02] <kenneth> waiting for it
[15:43:13] <kenneth> brb
[15:45:12] <kenneth> when i use csv, i get c compiler can't use executables
[15:46:07] <kenneth> when i look at the emc files..they're all read only
[15:47:32] <BigJohnT_> thats normal
[15:48:21] <BigJohnT_> sorry but I don't know anything about the csv install...
[15:48:34] <kenneth> i can't get pass -./configure --run-in-place --enable-simulator
[15:48:52] <kenneth> tha's ok...still appreciate the help
[15:48:53] <BigJohnT_> do you have the cnc menu
[15:49:07] <kenneth> what is that ?
[15:49:13] <BigJohnT_> applications/cnc
[15:49:23] <kenneth> nope
[15:49:45] <BigJohnT_> don't sound like you have it installed correctly
[15:50:25] <kenneth> looking thru the files now and it doesn't look like it's completely installed..
[15:50:55] <BigJohnT_> did you follow the instructions on this page http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/21/4/lang,en/
[15:51:05] <kenneth> ok
[15:51:07] <kenneth> brb
[15:52:30] <kenneth> downloading live cd
[15:52:40] <BigJohnT_> that is the easy way!
[15:52:48] <kenneth> what do ya'll use to burn ?
[15:52:59] <BigJohnT_> I have nero
[15:53:16] <BigJohnT_> I had to start from a windoz machine
[15:53:17] <kenneth> i don't...i'll try k3d again
[15:53:45] <kenneth> i have winxp and ubuntu on this machine
[15:55:15] <BigJohnT_> dual boot?
[15:55:17] <kenneth> what is your start string in application ?
[15:55:20] <kenneth> yes sir
[15:55:53] <BigJohnT_> I'm a hillneck so no one calls me sir anymore...
[15:56:04] <BigJohnT_> that's a hillbilly redneck
[15:56:25] <kenneth> hahahaha
[15:56:42] <kenneth> i'm coonass........we say sir
[15:56:55] <kenneth> get over it :)
[15:57:14] <BigJohnT_> really, where from?
[15:57:19] <kenneth> louisiana
[15:57:31] <BigJohnT_> I knew that part but what town
[15:57:41] <kenneth> henderson
[15:57:43] <BigJohnT_> I used to live in LaPlace
[15:57:56] <BigJohnT_> and Kenner and Metairie...
[15:58:05] <kenneth> about a hour and a half from here
[15:58:29] <BigJohnT_> now I live in south east Missouri
[15:58:37] <kenneth> we're at the west end of the long bridge
[15:58:50] <BigJohnT_> I-10
[15:58:50] <kenneth> cold up there ?
[15:58:56] <kenneth> yes sir
[15:58:59] <BigJohnT_> not at the moment
[15:59:04] <kenneth> just off 10
[15:59:08] <BigJohnT_> cool
[15:59:12] <kenneth> 80's here
[15:59:30] <kenneth> last of our cold fronts
[15:59:46] <BigJohnT_> anyhow when you get it downloaded and burned you should be able to boot from the CD and play with EMC or install it
[16:00:24] <kenneth> i hope it installs it by itself ... not good at installing
[16:00:29] <BigJohnT_> the biggest thing I miss is french bread, I had to learn how to make it myself
[16:00:38] <BigJohnT_> yes it is real easy
[16:00:44] <kenneth> cool
[16:01:19] <BigJohnT_> so easy I did it
[16:01:52] <BigJohnT_> have you looked at the emc wiki site?
[16:02:58] <kenneth> hhaha
[16:03:03] <kenneth> no
[16:03:16] <kenneth> think i saw it
[16:03:28] <BigJohnT_> lots more info there, let me get the link
[16:03:32] <kenneth> k
[16:03:46] <BigJohnT_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl
[16:03:50] <kenneth> thanks...brb
[16:04:22] <BigJohnT_> case studies has info about lots of converstions and builds
[16:08:25] <kenneth> ya..been there also
[16:35:05] <JymmmEMC> mornin
[16:37:03] <kenneth> mornin Jym
[16:37:25] <BigJohnT_> dang near nap time here Jymmm
[16:38:18] <BigJohnT_> not a half bad idea
[16:38:39] <kenneth> busy i guess...John's workin on steppers and i started on a shampooer for my wife
[16:38:56] <kenneth> 74%
[16:39:05] <BigJohnT_> * BigJohnT_ is going to get his Z axis going, take a nap and rebuild the master toilet but not in that order
[16:39:17] <BigJohnT_> pretty fast kenneth
[16:39:37] <kenneth> hahha good luck and thanks for the help John
[16:39:40] <BigJohnT_> I think a nap sounds good
[16:39:44] <kenneth> cable
[16:39:44] <BigJohnT_> ok bbl
[16:40:00] <BigJohnT_> dial up here with two cups and a string
[16:40:26] <kenneth> hahahhaha been there...don't think i could go back
[16:40:56] <BigJohnT_> bbl
[16:41:02] <kenneth> nite
[16:41:27] <kenneth> bbla
[18:06:47] <jmkasunich> archivist: when I saw this I thought of you: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/search-products/product-detail.aspx?id=30-513-054&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50&currentPageIndex=0
[18:10:06] <JymmmEMC> archivist: I didn't know you were a leprichon
[18:11:21] <JymmmEMC> kenneth: CNC shampooer?
[18:16:41] <kenneth> noope :) carpet
[18:17:34] <JymmmEMC> =)
[18:18:30] <kenneth> would be nice though
[18:18:55] <kenneth> clean the house from her computer
[18:19:18] <JymmmEMC> just map out the house to lat/lon coordinates and there ya go!
[18:19:56] <kenneth> ya...the dogs would have to fend for themselves hahaha
[18:20:12] <JymmmEMC> lojack the dogs =)
[18:20:28] <JymmmEMC> Get RFID chips installed in the dogs and sensors aorund the home
[18:20:29] <kenneth> maybe put a camera on the thing
[18:20:40] <kenneth> hahhahahaha even better
[18:21:04] <kenneth> she already wants yo chip her dog
[18:21:09] <kenneth> to
[18:21:23] <JymmmEMC> well, you're half way there =)
[18:21:53] <kenneth> so Jym..what do you do ?
[18:22:05] <JymmmEMC> Just place a RFID proximity sensor on the shampooer... then if the dog is close, make it wash the dog too =)
[18:22:16] <kenneth> hahhahahhahaha
[18:23:48] <ds2> mmmm roombas and scoobas
[18:24:23] <kenneth> our friend already has a roomba
[18:24:46] <kenneth> it's a start
[18:25:53] <ds2> got the bluetooth accessory for it?
[18:26:07] <kenneth> has a bumper
[18:26:35] <kenneth> but with a little tweaking ..................
[18:26:44] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: typically when using a square D typ chassis that has a backer plate in it... are items fstened using self-tapping screws? threaded? nut & bolts?
[18:27:03] <ds2> that's the old/original roomba
[18:27:03] <jmkasunich> self tappers or threaded holes
[18:27:33] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: ok, self tapping screws it is =) TY
[18:27:34] <kenneth> this is fairly old....self tapper
[18:28:26] <JymmmEMC> might suck though, I dont have the underside clearance I'd liek to have =(
[18:28:43] <JymmmEMC> these caps are just too freaking tall
[18:28:59] <jmkasunich> you want to be able to change stuff without having to take the whole panel out to retrieve fallen nuts
[18:29:19] <jmkasunich> I've used rivnuts before, also studs
[18:29:55] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: I stripped out a HP ProCurve 4000 56p 10/100 switch for the chassis. I'm trying to setup a "L" so that I can slide everything out.
[18:30:34] <JymmmEMC> http://www.mcbia.com/auction/randy/HP-ProCurve-4000M.jpg
[18:30:50] <jmkasunich> spiffy
[18:30:58] <JymmmEMC> 17" w 6.5" tall and 13.5" deep
[18:31:15] <JymmmEMC> (19" rack mountable actually with ears on it)
[18:31:52] <JymmmEMC> I gutted the whole thing already, drilled out the rivets, will take photos later.
[18:35:21] <kenneth> bbl
[19:12:45] <alex_joni> hmm.. is anyone using wireless on ubuntu?
[19:13:48] <toastydeath> i did at one point then gave up because i couldn't get it to work reliably
[19:15:43] <SWPadnos> I am
[19:15:45] <SWPadnos> using 7.10
[19:17:22] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: any hints setting up wpa_supplicant ?
[19:17:28] <SWPadnos> nope ;)
[19:17:31] <alex_joni> I mean, did you do anything special?
[19:17:56] <SWPadnos> I couldn't get it to work at home, but that was due to my setting up the router wrong
[19:18:09] <SWPadnos> during that time, I installed a bunch of stuff, though I think none of it was needed
[19:18:54] <SWPadnos> since then, it has worked flawlessly at several airports, hotels, and other places - including ones with WPA enabled
[19:19:00] <alex_joni> I managed to enable it manually..
[19:19:04] <alex_joni> using iwconfig :)
[19:19:29] <alex_joni> but if I have wpa_supplicant running, it somehow keeps insisting in not using encryption, and then the association fails
[19:19:31] <SWPadnos> I didn't need that, but I did try doing stuff with it for a while (when I didn't realize I didn't need it :) )
[19:19:38] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[19:20:25] <SWPadnos> I actually set up connection sharing last week, so two of us could use the one wireless connection to the hotel network -shared with a crossover cable between laptops ;)
[19:20:56] <SWPadnos> it worked great once I stopped fiddling around at the command line
[19:21:09] <SWPadnos> (used FireStarter - worked nicely)
[19:24:37] <alex_joni> anyways.. it's working now, so I won't sweat it
[19:24:50] <SWPadnos> heh - that's what I said :)
[19:25:17] <SWPadnos> it's worked great -the only problems I've had occurred when everyone else had problems as well, so it wasn't the laptop
[19:46:06] <BigJohnT_> Yea! the Z axis is alive...
[19:47:14] <toastydeath> it liiiiveeessss
[19:51:48] <BigJohnT_> yessssssss
[20:02:28] <alex_joni> nice
[20:13:08] <BigJohnT_> time to fix the toilet now I guess...
[20:15:05] <alex_joni> shitty job I guess
[20:15:39] <toastydeath> ba-zing
[20:17:53] <cradek> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1360/546122555_23973a4df9_b.jpg
[20:18:40] <gene_> Silly Q re VSR circuits?
[20:19:15] <gene_> Will a light buklb in place of the fuse affect thyem so as to make them go into faut mode?
[20:19:26] <gene_> fault mode
[20:22:22] <gene_> Answered that question, yes it will, replaced the fuse and it now drives the spindle at full speed both ways.
[20:23:19] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:23:39] <gene_> BUT, even though I can see the voltage, 0 to about 8.9 volts, going into the vsr from trhe PMDX-106, the spiondle speed is not being controlled, its wide open all the time.
[20:23:48] <SWPadnos> a light bulb is meant to use energy - it's a resistor. a fuse is meant to use no energy until the current is too high, at which time it uses enough energy to melt
[20:24:27] <SWPadnos> gene_, do you have to disconnect the pot on the VSR to use an external control signal?
[20:24:55] <SWPadnos> try turning the VSR knob all the way "the other way" and see if the PMDX-106 can control it
[20:25:30] <gene_> I have the PMDX-106's output connected exactly as the VSR's now disconnected pot would be connected, its actually plugged into the vsr on the same socket.
[20:25:42] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:26:01] <SWPadnos> do you know that the VSR uses a voltage reference instead of a current reference?
[20:26:07] <gene_> No effect from the PMDX's pot, except the voltage going into the VSR
[20:26:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm - can you post a link to the VSR manual?
[20:26:23] <gene_> no I don't
[20:27:38] <gene_> The pot removed from the vsr is 4.5K ohms
[20:28:27] <gene_> It has a switch on the back off it that is closed when turn 'off'
[20:30:03] <gene_> And I have a reed relay, switched by the run relay, that sjorts that connection when stopped.
[20:30:17] <gene_> Its the rest in case of overlaod switch I guess.
[20:30:25] <gene_> rest/reset
[20:30:34] <gene_> and shorts
[20:31:03] <SWPadnos> uh - is the manual available online?
[20:32:16] <gene_> sort of, its the last two pages of the Central machinery micro-mill, sold as the 47158 by harbor freight
[20:32:24] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[20:32:41] <SWPadnos> I'll assume it isn't really meant to have external controls attached ...
[20:33:40] <gene_> no but there isn't any reason not to if one can dup all the switching in the fwd-off-rev switch, which i now have
[20:34:01] <SWPadnos> that should be true :)
[20:36:02] <gene_> I think anyway, although not all the sequencing is exactly in order. it is now possible to have AC power applied while it is in the stopped/off mode
[20:36:30] <gene_> So Its running exactly as it would be if it was turned on, but the pot truned off.
[20:37:53] <gene_> I downloaded this manual and printed it myself, from HF's site, so its there if someone wants to see it.
[20:38:22] <SWPadnos> I'm looking at the schematic now
[20:38:29] <SWPadnos> I don't see P2 or P3 on it though
[20:39:08] <gene_> I have the PMDX-106 set to use the VSR's own voltage as the reference
[20:40:08] <SWPadnos> ah - the two knobs are high/low range and fwd/rev/off
[20:40:36] <gene_> p2 and p3 are pins on a 4 pin mini plug with p1 being the CW end of the pot, p2 being the arm of the pot, and p3 being the CCW end of the pot
[20:41:21] <gene_> hi-low is a mechanical gear changer in the powwr head, not on the schematic
[20:42:17] <SWPadnos> figure B on page 7 says there's a high-low speed knob, separate from the variable speed knob
[20:42:38] <gene_> yes, nothing to do with the electronics
[20:43:44] <gene_> and that mechanical drawing is as bogus as a$3 bill
[20:44:02] <SWPadnos> oh - there are two switches on the diagram on page 15, labeled with a dotted line as "forward/off/reverse switch"
[20:44:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:44:17] <SWPadnos> so is the schematic, unless they decided to short out the AC input
[20:44:36] <gene_> all that stuf it shows on the heads sled, is actually up in the box under the motor.
[20:45:17] <ken_> hello all
[20:45:34] <gene_> page15, the upper left switch is the ac power, is on in eithe position but off
[20:45:44] <SWPadnos> and it looks like they're running AC directly to some extra terminals on the pot (the "shutoff" you mentioned I guess)
[20:45:54] <SWPadnos> hi ken_
[20:45:56] <ken_> hello John...got your plasma hooked up ?
[20:46:04] <ken_> hi SWP
[20:46:36] <gene_> the upp right set of contacts are also on in eithe on position
[20:46:42] <alex_joni> ken_: is that lerman ?
[20:47:14] <lerman> no, it isn't
[20:47:19] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:47:47] <ken_> don't know
[20:47:52] <gene_> the switch on the back of the pot is on when the pot is off, and off when its turned up, its the fault reset.
[20:47:52] <alex_joni> heh
[20:47:57] <ken_> he just said a plasma utter
[20:48:15] <gene_> Hi Ken
[20:48:30] <ken_> hi gene
[20:50:14] <gene_> I did hook up a short on the backside of the run relay, and lemme tell y6a what, that puppy is dead stopped well withon a rev when I turn it off.
[20:50:34] <jmkasunich> you might not want to do that
[20:50:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I can't concentrate on that schematic at the moment. there are several places where it looks like they added "jumper dots" where there shouldn't be (like where P1 and P4 connect)
[20:50:48] <gene_> Now if I could just make the speed control work.
[20:50:53] <jmkasunich> you will get a load of current when you stop that fast, and it risks demagnetizing the motor
[20:51:23] <fenn__> fenn__ is now known as fenn
[20:51:40] <gene_> oh, how much r should i use then?
[20:52:04] <SWPadnos> see page 16 for a probably inaccurate schematic: http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/47000-47999/47158.pdf
[20:52:21] <gene_> and there is nothing actually connected to p4 anyway, SWP
[20:53:12] <SWPadnos> I saw that, but wasn't sure they should be shorted together on the schematic (with a couple of resistors that end up being in parallel)
[20:54:19] <gene_> I haven't traced the PCB itself. There was a black wire installed in the plug, anbd then clip[ped off flush atr the factory.
[20:54:28] <gene_> from p4
[20:55:55] <gene_> I would have been nice if they had called out p2 & p3 on that schematic. Jerks
[20:57:00] <gene_> I'd assume it shouldn't run at all if I unplug the pot? Or can you tell
[20:57:11] <JymmmEMC> I think be lucky that you have a schematic at all.... it is HF afterall
[20:57:53] <gene_> chuckle, yeah, I'm spoilt that way :-)
[20:58:27] <gene_> Nope, runs wide open with the pot unplugged.
[20:58:28] <JymmmEMC> I REALLY miss RS products no longer having schamtics in their manuals.
[20:59:49] <gene_> Yup, Ed Judge isn'y running that floor in FW anymore BUMMER
[21:01:21] <SWPadnos> heh - and to think I only met the advertising people instead of the technical people there
[21:01:33] <SWPadnos> err "marketing" that is
[21:02:10] <gene_> marketing, thats too many letters, ots only a 4 letter word
[21:02:17] <gene_> ots/its
[21:02:19] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:02:35] <SWPadnos> though there are 7-letter and other variants
[21:02:49] <gene_> I cut the short, so it coasts to a stop now
[21:02:50] <SWPadnos> it was fun shooting commercials for them, but only slightly
[21:03:39] <SWPadnos> gene_, look at the voltage at max speed and the max current rating of the motor, then pick a resistor that would give you around that current at the voltage for max speed
[21:03:46] <SWPadnos> unless jmkasunich says there's a better way :)
[21:04:26] <gene_> Somewhere around 50 ohms then, at beaucoup wats
[21:05:01] <gene_> Its supposedly a 400 watt motor, but the fuse is only a 2 amp fast
[21:05:34] <gene_> 1.8 amps at up to 110 DC volts.
[21:05:50] <gene_> Doesn't grok...
[21:06:19] <SWPadnos> no, sounds more 200-watt-ish
[21:06:51] <gene_> Heh, drawing is bass ackawards
[21:07:17] <gene_> P3 is max CCW, p1 is max CW
[21:10:33] <gene_> OTOH, I did have it hgoked up right, so thats not it.
[21:14:29] <gene_> I blew some swarf out of the keyboard, but I doubt if it will help my typing.
[21:14:51] <SWPadnos> hmmm - have you tried measuring the actual voltage at the pot terminals? (without the PMDX-106 connected)
[21:15:06] <SWPadnos> there's no guarantee that's a 0-10V input
[21:15:56] <gene_> I guess the next thing is to hook their pot back up, ahh, its about 8.9 volts, and the voltage at p2 goes up and down as expected, just no effect.
[21:16:33] <SWPadnos> that's what you get with the pot? *not* the PMDX board
[21:17:04] <gene_> No, thats with the PMDX board's pot
[21:17:38] <gene_> it turns that voltage up and down nicely, just no effect
[21:17:39] <SWPadnos> ok - I just figured it would be good to check that the VSR actually wants to see what the PMDX-106 puts out
[21:18:06] <gene_> Thats next, it will take a few to warm up the nirn and test it though
[21:18:12] <SWPadnos> if the VSR goes to full speed at 0.5V, or some unspecified current, it's hard to control it with 0-10V
[21:18:27] <SWPadnos> heh - gotta get to work. good luck
[21:22:27] <BigJohnT_> well that crappy job is done...
[21:25:18] <gene_> The VSR's own pot, hooked back up, doesn't work, damn!
[21:28:25] <gene_> Looks like I better get that 29 dollar one from surpluscenter, but it won't fit in this box, double damn
[21:29:02] <ken_> your cutter John ?
[21:29:49] <gene_> Or I'm still missing a jumper someplace.
[21:30:14] <BigJohnT_> no I rebuilt the toilet LOL
[21:30:21] <ken_> hahahah
[21:30:28] <ken_> no nap then ?
[21:30:36] <JymmmEMC> Damn... The switch I gutted has dual (redundant) 24VDC power supplies.... except their switching, so I cna't get 48VDC out of them =(
[21:30:36] <BigJohnT_> oh yes a nice one
[21:30:52] <BigJohnT_> you get the live cd ok?
[21:31:01] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC kicks SWPadnos in the shins!
[21:31:07] <ken_> didn't take long then
[21:31:17] <ken_> the toilet i mean :)
[21:31:26] <BigJohnT_> about 30 minutes
[21:31:40] <ken_> now to work
[21:31:43] <BigJohnT_> took more time to get out and put back all my tools
[21:32:06] <BigJohnT_> it's 5 o'clock somewhere
[21:32:11] <ken_> i did get to load emc2 from that live cd
[21:32:18] <BigJohnT_> cool
[21:32:25] <BigJohnT_> now the fun begins
[21:32:30] <ken_> drinking a cold one now...here's to you
[21:32:54] <ken_> 4:30 here
[21:32:54] <BigJohnT_> why thanks
[21:32:55] <gene_> Hay, its after 5 here, and that means I'm one behind
[21:33:02] <ken_> close enough
[21:33:07] <BigJohnT_> gene your more than one behind
[21:33:09] <gene_> I figure...
[21:33:18] <BigJohnT_> I didn't start that shitty job without one
[21:33:48] <BigJohnT_> anyhow the Z axis is alive and moving now too
[21:34:07] <ken_> xy ?
[21:34:20] <BigJohnT_> xy&z
[21:34:29] <BigJohnT_> z was last
[21:34:35] <ken_> cool....now get to work
[21:35:07] <BigJohnT_> nope early dinner and relax and watch beetlejuice, bosses orders
[21:35:19] <BigJohnT_> dinner and a movie
[21:35:24] <skunkworks> I love tim burton
[21:35:33] <ken_> that damn boss always wants to have fun
[21:35:46] <BigJohnT_> yep and I help
[21:36:04] <ken_> here's to you again
[21:36:15] <BigJohnT_> I keep her in homemade wine and she keeps me in clean underware
[21:36:38] <BigJohnT_> makes me want to brew some beer, it's almost nice enough outside to do that
[21:36:48] <gene_> Now that sounds like a good deal to me.
[21:37:00] <ken_> homemade ? a lot of work ?
[21:37:02] <BigJohnT_> the beer, wine or the underware
[21:37:06] <BigJohnT_> nope
[21:37:16] <BigJohnT_> you can do it on the stove
[21:37:26] <ken_> how long
[21:37:27] <gene_> Cuz I can't tqke the fabric softener, I've been doing my own laundry for about 15 years now.
[21:37:28] <BigJohnT_> with minimal equipment
[21:37:42] <BigJohnT_> to brew or ferment?
[21:37:47] <BigJohnT_> or both?
[21:37:49] <ken_> all
[21:38:13] <gene_> so quit yakkin and teach!
[21:38:14] <ken_> you have something fermeted already ?
[21:38:37] <BigJohnT_> brewing takes about 3 hours on a lazy saturday and depending on the style of beer it takes from 2 to 6 weeks for an ale to ferment
[21:38:58] <BigJohnT_> I do up to 20 gallon batches and have an 8 tap kegerator
[21:39:09] <gene_> kewl
[21:39:18] <BigJohnT_> that can hold 40 gallons of beer
[21:39:20] <ken_> so you can make some today,but will have to wait 2 or 6 weeks
[21:39:27] <BigJohnT_> yep
[21:39:33] <BigJohnT_> much faster than wine
[21:39:56] <ken_> you gonna be thirsty by then
[21:40:00] <BigJohnT_> let me get you the link to my web site it tells you all
[21:40:06] <ken_> cool
[21:40:47] <BigJohnT_> http://suburb.semo.net/jet1024/BeerHome.htm
[21:41:06] <BigJohnT_> more stuff there than you can read in a day on beer, wine, and even CNC
[21:42:48] <gene_> outta hewre guys, maybe better luck on my speed next time.
[21:43:55] <BigJohnT_> k
[21:44:09] <LawrenceG> crap.... anyone need a matched set of dvd beer coasters.... dvd burner died
[21:44:47] <LawrenceG> BigJohnT: maybe good for target practice?
[21:45:09] <BigJohnT_> cool, we love to shoot things here
[21:45:19] <BigJohnT_> and blow things up
[21:45:31] <BigJohnT_> we blew up a tree last weekend
[21:45:52] <BigJohnT_> can you launch them with a skeet launcher?
[21:46:24] <LawrenceG> cool.... need to figure out how to make a potatoe type gun that shoots cd/dvd disks... skeet.. now your talking
[21:48:18] <skunkworks> If you need info on a simple igniter design....
[21:52:22] <BigJohnT_> Trebuchet
[22:00:39] <Guest124> k,รน
[22:04:06] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC: you about?