#emc | Logs for 2008-03-11

[00:45:17] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ping
[00:46:36] <jmkasunich> ginp
[00:47:05] <jmkasunich> oops
[00:47:11] <jmkasunich> gnip
[00:47:53] <tomp2> buid
[01:08:42] <tomp2> ray's png of full vs halfstep torque & resonance is amazing. http://imagebin.ca/view/clpgA5sW.html
[01:24:38] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/PICT1275.JPG
[01:24:45] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/PICT1274.JPG
[01:33:28] <jepler> skunkworks: are you *still* not done with that kitchen? geez.
[01:33:34] <jepler> I mean, looks like nice tile
[01:40:50] <tomp2> why stand the spacers up instead of laying down at intersections?
[01:41:11] <tomp2> nice range
[01:41:39] <SWPadnos> they go away and you fill in with grout
[01:42:10] <jmkasunich> yeah, but the same is true if you lay them down at the corners of the tile
[01:42:18] <jmkasunich> pro: keeps the rows in line
[01:42:25] <jmkasunich> con: harder to pull them out
[01:42:30] <SWPadnos> oh, I was thinking underneath (which doesn't work so well I tbelieve)
[01:42:53] <SWPadnos> yeah, I think we planned to re-use outs as well
[01:42:56] <SWPadnos> ours
[01:43:40] <jmkasunich> tile looks nice, but I think I'd rather have good old formica
[01:43:55] <tomp2> this was big in se asia, concrete cast in place & ground smooth , http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1561584843/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-0426989-5911954#reader-link
[01:43:56] <jmkasunich> or that solid stuff the name of which is on the tip of my tongue
[01:44:11] <SWPadnos> tile/stone have one problem: you have to be careful with ceramic/china dishes or they break
[01:44:16] <jmkasunich> exactly
[01:44:27] <jepler> our kitchen's tile (smaller tiles than that, maybe 1/4 the size) and it's always a pain keeping the grout clean-ish
[01:44:27] <SWPadnos> Corian?
[01:44:39] <jmkasunich> 2nd problem is cleaning - don't care how well you seal the grout, it will be harder to keep clean than a seamless surface
[01:44:51] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: yeah, corian
[01:45:45] <jmkasunich> tile on the floor isn't so bad
[01:45:59] <SWPadnos> that's where we put it :)
[01:46:10] <jmkasunich> but even there... if I drop a plate or glass on my lineoleum floor, I cringe, but most of the time it bounces
[01:46:13] <SWPadnos> between the garage and the downstairs bathroom (the one with the deep sink)
[01:46:18] <jmkasunich> if you drop one on tile, go get the dustpan
[01:49:38] <tomp2> use melmac dishes ( from the planet were Alf lived )
[01:50:40] <jmkasunich> I'd rather have a melmac floor and counter
[01:50:55] <tomp2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melmac_(planet)
[01:53:37] <SWPadnos> I always wondered how many of the kids who watched that show actually knew what Melmac was
[02:31:27] <Chris_sub_1_> Hi folks. I have developed a problem on my M5I20 servo knee mill that I think is configuration or software breakage and I'm somewhat at a loss how to proceed. Some things still work fine but I'm getting some bizarre GUI behavior and unresponsiveness after loading certain test ngc files. Anybody up for trying to help me?
[02:41:08] <jmkasunich> what exactly is happening?
[02:42:32] <Chris_sub_1_> Hi John. Chris Helgesen here.
[02:42:59] <Chris_sub_1_> Homing and jogging still work fine.
[02:43:31] <Chris_sub_1_> When I run the EMC logo file or tort.ngc everything still seems to work.
[02:43:43] <skunkworks> jepler: yes -still not done. Started at christmas with a vacation in between. I am slow.
[02:44:21] <Chris_sub_1_> However, when I load 3D_Chips or some of the other example files and try to run, I get no motion and Axis becomes extremely unresponsive.
[02:44:33] <Chris_sub_1_> These worked fine a few weeks ago.
[02:45:54] <jmkasunich> does the preview look OK before you hit run?
[02:45:58] <Chris_sub_1_> Since then, I have done some tuning, added a few new I/Os, and some simple HAL logic. I haven't done anything (knowingly) that I would think would cause severe software breakage. Of course, what I don't know is a lot. :)
[02:45:58] <skunkworks> jepler: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=423143#post423143
[02:47:07] <Chris_sub_1_> Yes. The preview looks fine and can be manipulated before as normal. Once it goes into wacko mode, the graphics window updates are infrequent (big jumps).
[02:47:14] <jmkasunich> if its only certain g-code files that cause the strangeness, its unlikely to be a hal thing
[02:47:30] <jmkasunich> the "wacko mode" is probably something sucking up CPU cycles
[02:47:45] <jmkasunich> see if top will tell you what it is
[02:47:53] <Chris_sub_1_> I'm a linux newbie so I'm not good at diagnosing such things.
[02:48:17] <jmkasunich> start by opening a shell, and run emc from there, not an icon
[02:48:25] <SWPadnos> Chris_sub_1_, did you add any functions to the base thread?
[02:48:26] <jmkasunich> that way you can see errors and warnings
[02:48:57] <jmkasunich> next, open another shell, and type "top" at that prompt - it will give you a list of processes running on your computer, sorted so that the CPU hogs will be on top
[02:49:46] <jmkasunich> the "top" list updates automatically, hit "q" to stop it
[02:51:26] <Chris_sub_1_> Hmmm...I did add 'blocks' to core_servo, but it was working fine (an and function for preventing my mechanical spindle brake from kicking in until the spindle stopped).
[02:51:58] <jmkasunich> that shouldn't have much effect
[02:52:24] <jmkasunich> btw, blocks is deprecated - there are now individual components for everything that was in blocks (and more)
[02:52:40] <jmkasunich> loadrt and count=1 (or however many you need)
[02:52:48] <SWPadnos> yeah - I was just thinking that something extra in the base thread could start to cause issues if BASE_PERIOD is close to the limit
[02:52:56] <jmkasunich> make that "and2", for 2-input and gate
[02:53:05] <SWPadnos> though it should happen for any NC file
[02:53:51] <Chris_sub_1_> That's what I did. Do you mean you just add 'and2' rather than using blocks?
[02:54:05] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:54:15] <SWPadnos> good luck. gotta get some sleep
[02:54:18] <Chris_sub_1_> Is that in the html docs yet?
[02:54:44] <jmkasunich> yeah, blocks was deprecated for 2.1.x I think - I know it was deprecated for 2.2.x
[02:54:55] <Chris_sub_1_> I've been working from a pdf that may be out of date.
[02:55:31] <Chris_sub_1_> Back to the problem...I'll go run top and come back and report.
[02:56:20] <Chris_sub_1_> (Embarassing) newbie question: How do I launch my M5I20 config from a shell?
[02:56:54] <jmkasunich> just type "emc"
[02:57:03] <jmkasunich> the config picker will appear, and go from there
[02:57:10] <Chris_sub_1_> (turning red)
[03:01:23] <Chris_sub_1_> Xorg and Axis are at the top, but they are both under 10%.
[03:02:43] <jmkasunich> top only sees user space stuff, so the problem must be something loading down the RT side
[03:03:04] <Chris_sub_1_> I hit stop and it took about 10 secs for the GUI to respond, same when I hit the MDI tab.
[03:03:26] <jmkasunich> while emc is running, go to the other shell, and type "halcmd show thread"
[03:03:37] <jmkasunich> then paste the output to pastebin.ca, and paste the URL here
[03:05:42] <Chris_sub_1_> http://www.pastebin.ca/937669
[03:07:19] <jmkasunich> your thread times seem OK - 1mS servo thread, that never took longer than 207uS to run
[03:07:32] <jmkasunich> 50uS base thread that never took longer than 16uS to run
[03:09:07] <jmkasunich> Chris_sub_1_: what are you using pwmgen for?
[03:09:32] <Chris_sub_1_> Spindle speed control using Steve Stallings' board.
[03:09:49] <jmkasunich> why not use one of the 5i20 dac outputs?
[03:10:05] <Chris_sub_1_> Saving the 4th axis for a 4th axis. :)
[03:10:31] <jmkasunich> are you sending the PWM out thru a 5i20 output, or thru a parport to steve's breakout?
[03:11:05] <jmkasunich> (the reason I ask is because you aren't updating parport at all, and you are only updating the 5i20 outputs in the servo thread - too slow if you are creating PWM in the base thread)
[03:11:36] <Chris_sub_1_> All my I/O is through opto22 modules, two of which feed a pwm and dir signal to the spindle board. The pwm is only 10Hz to give me decent resolution.
[03:12:19] <Chris_sub_1_> Steve's board takes it across an opto barrier and simulates a pot input to the vfd.
[03:12:23] <jmkasunich> it still doesn't make sense to generate PWM in a 50uS thread if you are only gonna update the actual output every 1mS
[03:12:51] <Chris_sub_1_> Now that you mention it...yep.
[03:13:08] <jmkasunich> I don't see any connection between that and your problem though
[03:14:23] <Chris_sub_1_> Is there anything persistent related to work offsets, G92 and so on that could be hosing things up? I was messing with them recently.
[03:14:51] <Chris_sub_1_> BTW - I tried a re-install using the package manager and that didn't fix things.
[03:16:12] <jmkasunich> I believe you can remove your .var file to get rid of any residual offsets, etc - emc will recreate a blank one when you start the next time
[03:16:19] <jmkasunich> (remove while emc is not running)
[03:16:37] <cradek> I don't think that's true
[03:17:06] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems
[03:17:08] <jmkasunich> oops - I should avoid commenting on interpreter stuff
[03:17:27] <cradek> ^ this url explains offsets and how to clear them
[03:18:03] <Chris_sub_1_> Another observation: When I'm in the broken state, on the MDI tab no gcode lines are highlighted, even though the run button is on.
[03:19:19] <cradek> run button is on while you're in mdi?
[03:20:51] <Chris_sub_1_> I can switch to the MDI tab with the run button on. Some of the controls are very unresponsive.
[03:21:18] <cradek> that seems strange to me
[03:21:30] <cradek> oh, I can too, forget it
[03:21:39] <cradek> you have to do that if you want to see the active gcodes
[03:25:07] <jmkasunich> ok, I lied a little
[03:25:21] <jmkasunich> oops,. wrong channel
[03:26:17] <Chris_sub_1_> If homing and jogging both work fine, what might be different about even starting to run ngc files (but only certain ones)?
[03:27:06] <Chris_sub_1_> And they all preview just fine.
[03:27:11] <cradek> I agree that's very mysterious
[03:27:20] <jmkasunich> ngc files run in a completely different mode than jogging and homing
[03:27:31] <jmkasunich> coordinated mode, rather than individual axis mode
[03:27:45] <jmkasunich> but the odd thing here is that only some g-code files mess it up
[03:27:54] <Chris_sub_1_> I ran the EMC logo file with no trouble though.
[03:28:05] <Chris_sub_1_> And tort.ngc.
[03:29:06] <cradek> chips is bad but tort is ok?
[03:29:08] <Chris_sub_1_> That's why I was thinking it might be something persistent to do with offsets. Maybe I discovered a non-feature.
[03:29:19] <Chris_sub_1_> cradek: yes.
[03:29:38] <cradek> I don't think this would have anything to do with offsets.
[03:29:48] <cradek> try turning off various things in the View menu
[03:31:15] <Chris_sub_1_> In the broken state, even loading a file takes a long time.
[03:32:11] <cradek> what's at the top of top when it's doing this?
[03:32:27] <Chris_sub_1_> Just a thought: Could I have fat-fingered something that would cause it to be waiting for my non-existent tool changer to do something?
[03:32:54] <Chris_sub_1_> Xorg and axis are at the top, but both under 10%.
[03:33:32] <jmkasunich> waiting for a toolchanger wouldn't suck up CPU and slow stuff down
[03:33:37] <jmkasunich> what version are you running?
[03:33:42] <Chris_sub_1_> 2.2.3
[03:40:05] <Chris_sub_1_> In MDI I can enter g0 commands and I don't get either an error or motion.
[04:02:51] <Chris_sub_1_> I got this in the shell window when I reloaded 3D_Chips: http://www.pastebin.ca/937713
[04:10:34] <tomp2> you said something about a non-existant tool changer? what does that mean?
[04:11:58] <Chris_sub_1_> I don't have a tool changer. I was wondering if something might have been made active somehow that was waiting for a hardware event that would never happen related to a tool change.
[04:14:32] <tomp2> try tn / m6 in mdi and watch the logs/terminal/responsiveness
[04:18:36] <Chris_sub_1_> It takes the commands without the misbehavior that I see with the problem programs or new error messages to the console.
[04:19:58] <tomp2> got a spindle that would need to decel before a tool change? ( anything prior to and necc for a tool change ready )
[04:20:11] <tomp2> orient?
[04:21:56] <tomp2> EMC_TOOL_PREPARE timed out ... dunno, sorry
[04:22:45] <Chris_sub_1_> No orient.
[04:22:55] <tomp2> no, that didnt time out, the EMC_TOOL_ABORT did
[04:24:12] <Chris_sub_1_> I'm not familiar with the tool changer interface at all.
[04:27:14] <Chris_sub_1_> Q - If the program calls for a tool change, and I mucked up something with the coordinate systems so that the machine thinks it should be elsewhere for the change, could that be a problem because there is no command to send it there?
[04:30:41] <tomp2> dunno, but you could try the same program sans tool change to test
[04:31:27] <tomp2> ( sorry running in & out of hotel room doing laundry )
[04:31:53] <Chris_sub_1_> Hey, there's someone who is awake. I'll give it a try.
[04:40:53] <Chris_sub_1_> tomp2: That worked! I commented out the tool change line at the beginning (N50T1M6) and the universe started to make sense again. Thanks! There must be something modal that is on but shouldn't be, or maybe I broke something in the config files.
[04:42:09] <Chris_sub_1_> It really freaked me out when it started running because this is the first time I ran it since I wired up my new spindle control. It's much louder now. :)
[04:48:07] <tomp2> cool, hope you can find why the tool change is a problem, right now you just have a work-around.
[04:48:45] <tomp2> please talk to the devs about what you saw and what changed that. (domani)
[04:48:59] <Chris_sub_1_> Thanks (all). I'll have to work on the 'why' tomorrow night.
[04:49:19] <Chris_sub_1_> I will let them know once I figure out the cause.
[04:49:58] <Chris_sub_1_> Good night.
[04:50:02] <tomp2> i mean you could ask them/ report the observation and the change
[04:50:06] <tomp2> nite!
[05:02:24] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[06:10:20] <renesis> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
[06:10:35] <renesis> T:-10min
[06:23:24] <renesis> http://www.nasa.gov/55644main_NASATV_Windows.asx
[06:23:31] <renesis> fullscreen, 8min
[06:23:36] <renesis> 10min was the hold, my bad
[06:30:27] <SkinnYPuppY> Anyone in the south awake? Shuttle launch @ 2:28 AM
[09:04:13] <micges> hi all
[12:10:21] <BigJohnT> Oh boy a python update
[14:29:41] <ALS> cradek: wondering if you seen the pic I posted on photobucket for you? 2 days ago
[14:32:00] <cradek> yes, thank you
[14:32:12] <cradek> but, the generator is at the mechanic's today :-)
[14:33:29] <ALS> good deal
[14:45:12] <alex_joni> http://www.derailer.org/clientquotes/?qid=509
[14:46:40] <alex_joni> ROFL http://www.derailer.org/clientquotes/?qid=294
[15:01:03] <oh1gwk> RS274D => RS274/NGC conversion tool somewhere?
[15:02:03] <archivist> I started writing one a while ago, got side tracked....
[15:03:21] <cradek> RS274D as described in my old machinery's handbook seemed fairly compatible, at least for simple kinds of programs
[15:03:39] <cradek> how much changing does your D code need?
[15:07:58] <oh1gwk> Don't know yet, code generated from pads layout (mentor)
[15:09:04] <cradek> oh maybe RS274D can mean more than one thing
[15:09:40] <SWPadnos> RS274D is also gerber format for PC boards
[15:10:06] <SWPadnos> so it has aperture and tool handling that's totally different from RS274NGC
[15:10:06] <cradek> oh, that will be much harder
[15:11:11] <SWPadnos> yes
[15:11:18] <archivist> and depends what fills it has as well /me been reading spec
[15:11:45] <SWPadnos> don't forget flash vs. (whatever the other thing was) for pad/hole tools
[15:11:52] <SWPadnos> or should I say "tools"
[15:12:42] <archivist> the flash part is easy, except for arbitary shapes
[15:13:23] <skunkworks_> there are other options.. convert between programs.. Like - if you can get it into eagle - there are many tools to create emc compatable g-code
[15:13:43] <skunkworks_> I think there are also some cad software that will take gerber files..
[15:13:43] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure there's no conversion between Pads and Eagle
[15:14:04] <jymm> SWPadnos: #2 pencil.... DUH!
[15:14:07] <SWPadnos> you can load gerbers into various PCB CAD/CAM programs, dunno if Eagle can import those
[15:14:51] <SWPadnos> that reminds me - I was going to request that Altium add dEagle export/import to Designer
[15:14:55] <SWPadnos> -d
[15:16:30] <archivist> later gerber has some negative options as well
[15:17:35] <SWPadnos> I didn't know that was part of the file spec. I know most PCB programs let you decide whether a layer is positive or negative image though
[15:23:31] <archivist> there is a layer polarity which is separate from the image polarity
[15:23:55] <archivist> thats RS274X the later spec
[15:25:04] <SWPadnos> I thought the only difference between RS274Xand RS274X was that the apertures are included in an -X file
[15:25:11] <SWPadnos> err - between D and X
[15:25:41] <archivist> no loads of enhancements
[15:27:38] <skunkworks_> GCAM also supports RS274X (Gerber) and Excellon drill files for circuit board milling.
[15:27:48] <skunkworks_> http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page
[15:28:42] <archivist_win> www.archivist.info/cnc/pcb/rs274xrevd_e.pdf should be the pdf
[15:29:26] <SWPadnos> skunkworks_, cool!
[15:31:18] <cradek> converting from a format of traces/pads to the necessary tool paths to cut isolation around those traces/pads seems like a very hard problem. it's not a simple conversion of file formats.
[15:31:44] <archivist> I agree it isnt
[15:33:36] <archivist> it needs a db of connecting lands building to isolate a land/track/area, then generating a path around
[15:34:11] <cradek> but you have to analyze all the tracks at once, since cutting around one might cut into another
[15:34:12] <archivist> as it doesnt have to be drawn in any order in the original
[15:34:59] <archivist> yes hence a storing joined in a db to chect/test joins seems the best to me
[15:37:40] <cradek> never converting to gerber in the first place seems much better
[15:37:54] <cradek> that's just the wrong representation for milling
[15:41:52] <archivist> true, pcb programs dont expect milling machines though
[15:46:02] <fenn_> pardon my ignorance, but what is the 'right' representation for milling?
[15:46:34] <cradek> isolation tool paths and where to drill what size of hole
[16:09:16] <alex_joni> fenn_: STEP :P
[16:17:00] <lerman> cradek: If I wanted to convert, I'd first convert to a (very fine) raster.
[16:17:22] <lerman> Converting from faster to isolation shouldn't be that hard.
[16:17:28] <lerman> raster
[16:18:25] <fenn_> i think gerber (a list of lines) would be easier
[16:18:34] <fenn_> anyway it's a moot point since gcam does it already
[16:18:57] <lerman> But gerber isn't a list of lines. It's a list of exposures. (for pads, rectangles, etc)
[16:19:16] <archivist> I saw gcam, not busting a gut to write mine
[16:19:27] <lerman> You have to merge the exposures.
[16:19:41] <lerman> archivist: works for me.
[16:19:53] <archivist> and it has area fills and polygons
[16:20:08] <SWPadnos> it's a list of "shape trajectories" and "shaped points"
[16:20:28] <lerman> Think of it as two D constructive geometry.
[16:20:30] <SWPadnos> since you can have an ellipsoid "tool" go along a path with RS274D
[16:21:02] <fenn_> oh, that sucks
[16:21:25] <lerman> I've written code to do that. Take an arbitrary shaped brush and move it along a path. (For the purpose of *raster* display.
[16:21:43] <SWPadnos> I don't know how far the shape definitions go, but I know you can have round or rect tools, and those tools travel the paths
[16:21:58] <fenn_> sure, but there's no easy analytical way to go from a swept shape to the outline
[16:22:01] <SWPadnos> there are also flash tools, which I'm pretty sure can have complex shapes (like a star)
[16:22:02] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[16:22:15] <fenn> that should be easy enough
[16:22:16] <lerman> Or like a pad.
[16:22:33] <SWPadnos> yes - or a pad with thermal (cross) connection to a plane
[16:23:46] <lerman> [Did someone say star?] :-)
[16:25:06] <fenn> anything involving 'flash' is now useless as a google search
[16:25:20] <archivist> I got as far as drawing the plotted image, in mine
[16:26:14] <SWPadnos> lerman, yeah - the early photoplotters actually had physical apertures that would get switched in front of the light source - they could have any shape you wanted
[16:27:01] <lerman> I was noticing that the pad with a thermal is pretty much a star.
[16:27:57] <SWPadnos> indeed
[16:30:19] <SWPadnos> lerman, you forgot telnet the protocol :)
[16:30:49] <lerman> I just bought the laser for my laser interferometer. I now have the light source and the receiver. Still need the optics and some cables.
[16:31:00] <lerman> Yup. I did forget that.
[16:31:08] <fenn> why would anyone want to run emc over telnet?
[16:31:27] <archivist> kudos
[16:31:32] <lerman> It makes for a cheap way to give commands.
[16:31:42] <fenn> but ssh already works
[16:31:44] <lerman> locally or remotely.
[16:31:58] <lerman> ssh using what interface to emc?
[16:32:10] <fenn> emcsh or an X11 gui
[16:32:10] <alex_joni> keystick
[16:32:27] <SWPadnos> the EMC2 telnet "server" is another UI running on the machine
[16:32:32] <fenn> i think the telnet hack only does emcsh commands
[16:32:59] <SWPadnos> I believe so - it's emcsh+telnet
[16:33:13] <alex_joni> most the GUI commands are in emcsh too
[16:33:22] <fenn> right
[16:33:24] <SWPadnos> but that's what tkemc runs with (emcsh), so it can do anything tkemc can do (for the most part)
[16:33:50] <alex_joni> and it's quite close to halui too
[16:33:56] <SWPadnos> oh crap. I have to get to the dentist
[16:34:05] <SWPadnos> too bad the short way has a flooded road
[16:34:11] <SWPadnos> sigh. bbl
[16:34:38] <lerman> Sometimes just getting there can be like pulling teeth. :-)
[16:34:47] <lerman> Good luck.
[16:35:34] <lerman> bbl -- I'm going upstairs to see what I broke trying to add named o-words.
[16:36:12] <alex_joni> hopefully no vase
[17:17:48] <jymm> test
[17:22:33] <archivist> fail
[17:26:09] <BigJohnT> anyone using GCAM?
[18:03:21] <SkinnYPuppY> Enco has 7x10 lathe stuff on sale. Thought I'd pass it along.
[18:03:23] <SkinnYPuppY> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?DCMP=EMC-1408851&PMAKA=110-0800
[18:12:04] <skunkworks_> BigJohnT: I had installed it on the windows side... But about all I did was open it - cause the screen to go black and close it.
[18:14:05] <BigJohnT> skunkworks, I opened it in windoz and it seemed to work
[18:14:25] <BigJohnT> I was disapointed that it would not open a dxf file...
[18:21:14] <skunkworks_> BigJohnT: http://gcam.js.cx/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=65
[18:30:48] <skunkworks_> cradek: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=423533&postcount=34
[18:30:53] <skunkworks_> more fluff
[18:59:24] <cradek> sure are a lot of words
[19:00:10] <BigJohnT3267> just finished testing my prototype vaccum wrench and it really sucks, my customer will be REAL happy when I tell them...
[19:00:53] <archivist> * archivist wants to see pics of the sucker
[19:01:51] <BigJohnT3267> hmmm, it's top secret but maybe...
[19:04:09] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKZYj51Exn0
[19:04:18] <skunkworks_> cable driven
[19:04:25] <skunkworks_> (selling it on ebay)
[19:06:18] <BigJohnT3267> ok just this once http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/HPIM0629.jpg
[19:10:04] <archivist> nicely made
[19:11:04] <BigJohnT3267> thanks
[19:14:04] <BigJohnT3267> bbl
[20:29:42] <fsdafsd> fsdafsd is now known as Unit41
[20:29:47] <Unit41> http://www.youtube.com/v/Y58Ab192ggQ
[20:29:58] <Unit41> my half finished lathe
[20:30:09] <Unit41> fyi that z axis not for that lathe
[20:31:04] <Unit41> thats my gate
[20:33:12] <skunkworks_> lathe?
[20:33:27] <Unit41> sure
[20:33:34] <Unit41> cnc lathe
[20:34:41] <Unit41> it was easy getting to that point, im stuck for ideas on the z axis though
[20:34:50] <skunkworks_> to me it looks like a big gantry router..
[20:35:06] <Unit41> it'll take the weight
[20:35:13] <skunkworks_> right link? (I am not listening to the audio)
[20:35:39] <Unit41> what ?
[20:36:39] <skunkworks_> double check the link you posted... It is not what I would concider a lathe.
[20:37:34] <skunkworks_> unless I just don't get it :)
[20:38:21] <SkinnYPuppY> Lathe ?
[20:38:41] <skunkworks_> <skunkworks_> lathe? :)
[20:42:20] <archivist_win> * archivist_win sees no lathe, just wobbly vision
[20:43:25] <skunkworks_> This? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1vNveXSprc&feature=related
[20:44:06] <skunkworks_> oops - wrong user..
[20:44:33] <skunkworks_> I just don't understand I guess.. http://www.youtube.com/user/unit411
[20:44:59] <skunkworks_> unit411 is the user name - The quote is 'start of lathe'
[20:50:04] <archivist> Im convinced i did not see a lathe
[20:50:12] <skunkworks_> great - now we scared him away.
[20:50:32] <skunkworks_> you guys are so mean
[20:51:07] <archivist> dont want to to scare then but....
[20:51:18] <archivist> what was that
[20:51:56] <skunkworks_> I don't know where unit41 resides.. maybe it is a communication issue..
[20:52:24] <dsafsd_> im here
[20:52:31] <dsafsd_> was playing with my router
[20:52:59] <skunkworks_> ah. So - why do you call it a lathe?
[20:57:28] <dsafsd_> because it is
[20:57:36] <fenn> looks like a router
[20:58:11] <dsafsd_> its going to be for milling steel eventually
[20:58:20] <fenn> oh, i bet
[20:58:35] <archivist> far too flimsy
[20:58:50] <fenn> you might even work your way up to plastic with the right cutters
[20:59:03] <dsafsd_> ya but I have more acme rod and another motor for a 2 axis drive system
[20:59:05] <archivist> a lathe rotates the metal
[20:59:52] <fenn> dsafsd_: might be smarter to make something smaller so it's not so wobbly
[21:00:11] <dsafsd_> its not wobbly
[21:00:22] <fenn> yes it is, it's made out of 1 inch pipe
[21:00:35] <dsafsd_> just the top rail
[21:00:59] <fenn> might be good for a plasma table
[21:01:09] <fenn> or oxyacetylene if you cant afford plasma
[21:01:13] <dsafsd_> its for plasma and dremmel
[21:01:20] <dsafsd_> i allready have 60 amp plasma
[21:01:39] <dsafsd_> ready for 110
[21:02:26] <dsafsd_> eventually i'll do wood burnings with hho
[21:02:43] <fenn> oh please shut up
[21:03:01] <dsafsd_> ?
[21:04:27] <dsafsd_> are you jelous ?
[21:04:39] <dsafsd_> i would be
[21:21:11] <dsafsd_> fenn are you by chance part of the ass family ?
[21:21:40] <dsafsd_> smart ass, dumb ass , rude ass take yer pic
[21:33:58] <dsafsd_> dsafsd_ is now known as Unit41
[21:34:34] <SWPadnos> so Unit41, how do you plan to make that into a lathe? (just curious)
[21:34:53] <SWPadnos> at the moment, it looks a lot like the base of a plasma cutter or something to me
[21:35:50] <Unit41> i'll probably make a lathe out of something else
[21:36:02] <Unit41> spin the discs i need into annular form
[21:36:11] <Unit41> something simple
[21:37:45] <Unit41> know any good diy lathe plans ?
[21:37:52] <SWPadnos> nope
[21:38:11] <SWPadnos> I think fenn had the gingery lathe plans (that is a self-build thing, isn't it?)
[21:39:45] <archivist> cutting and bending forces are quite high in lathes and milling machines Unit41
[21:40:21] <Unit41> im going to switch to 3 inch steel pipe eventually
[21:40:35] <Unit41> that thick stuff for drilling
[21:41:31] <Unit41> with my plasma cutter should I even hope to cut rack out with it ?
[21:41:41] <Unit41> i need rack and pinion bad
[21:42:15] <SWPadnos> from what I've seen of plasma, I wouldn't expect to cut rack accurately or cleanly with it
[21:42:20] <SWPadnos> but I've seen precious little
[21:42:37] <Unit41> the old plasma table i ran could do it
[21:42:47] <Unit41> kickassmachines
[21:44:08] <Unit41> it would still require alot of buffering
[21:46:39] <SWPadnos> yeah - I was thinking the edge wouldn't be too clean, but if you cut a little oversize and grind back to length, that would give both accuracy and a clean finish
[21:46:44] <Unit41> actually cut bicycle teeth out and just make a divinci style pinion
[22:02:40] <SkinnYPuppY> Speaking of gingy lathes, what kind of rpm would a smallish ground spindle be able to run in a babbet/copper/steel bearing like an automotive main bearing with thrust surface built in fore and aft
[22:03:13] <SkinnYPuppY> With just cup feed oiling not requiring a gear/lube box
[22:05:37] <archivist> depends how well made
[22:06:48] <archivist> should run a few thousand rpm no problem
[22:07:30] <SkinnYPuppY> I suppose ballance and surface finish are main concern.
[22:08:01] <archivist> oil retention helps, as high rpm will fling it out
[22:09:32] <archivist> eg small motors run 10-20k in oilite bushes
[22:13:08] <fenn> too much oil will cause drag
[22:14:08] <fenn> my gingery lathe is quite messy since for some reason the oil turns black before it gets flung everywhere
[22:14:33] <archivist> hmm black means wear
[22:14:46] <SkinnYPuppY> What are you using for spindle oil ?
[22:15:02] <fenn> i think its some electrochemical reaction between the sulfur rust inhibitor in the oil and the aluminum/steel to form iron sulfide
[22:15:12] <fenn> i'm using mobil vactra 2 way oil
[22:15:19] <fenn> it does it on the ways too (but they dont fling oil)
[22:16:39] <SkinnYPuppY> What material did you use for spindle bearings ?
[22:17:16] <fenn> 301 brass? from mcmaster-carr
[22:19:21] <fenn> oh, no it's bronze
[22:19:57] <fenn> it was five years ago, dunno where the receipts are
[22:19:58] <SkinnYPuppY> I've used some si-bronze for a popet valve grinder spindle. Good stuff
[22:23:43] <fenn> why would you use babbit bearings for a small spindle btw?
[22:24:52] <SkinnYPuppY> Oh just brainstorming for something a beginner could use with built in precision with easily modified parts.
[22:26:43] <fenn> how about skate bearings?
[22:27:02] <fenn> or are you thinking bigger? (in that case i might suggest truck trailer bearings)
[22:27:55] <SkinnYPuppY> That may be more practical
[22:28:26] <archivist> car wheel bearings (taper roller)
[22:28:42] <SkinnYPuppY> Thats what I pictured
[22:28:46] <archivist> all depends on speed range
[22:29:25] <fenn> yes same thing
[22:30:22] <fenn> i bet trailer bearings could go up to 10krpm if lubricated properly
[22:31:19] <SkinnYPuppY> Probably I know seadoo tires can't be more than 12" dia
[22:31:30] <archivist> only trouble with them is the large diameter seals needed
[22:31:51] <fenn> why are seals a problem?
[22:32:30] <fenn> i just bought a $2 crankshaft oil seal for my honda which goes up to 7krpm
[22:33:23] <archivist> has a good oil supply in an engine
[22:34:54] <fenn> it was part of a kit, the original oil seal is still fine (after 150000miles == 60 hr at 10krpm)
[22:35:06] <fenn> * fenn wonders if those numbers are right
[22:36:45] <fenn> ok probably more like 400 hours at 10krpm
[22:36:55] <fenn> assuming the total number of turns is the same
[22:37:31] <fenn> but really it would blow up instantly if the oil ran dry
[22:37:38] <SWPadnos> I think you may be off by an order of magnitude or two
[22:38:01] <SWPadnos> 400 hours would be 375miles/hour
[22:38:11] <SkinnYPuppY> Weeeee
[22:38:13] <SWPadnos> or the equivalent of that anyway
[22:38:23] <archivist> top gear 4:1 back axle.....
[22:39:03] <archivist> and most normal driving is more like 2500 rpm
[22:39:08] <fenn> SWPadnos: yeah with no air resistance a honda engine at 10krpm in fifth gear is going about 400mph
[22:39:42] <SWPadnos> air resistance doesn't matter (except for required engine power output, of course)
[22:39:51] <fenn> right
[22:40:03] <fenn> ok my gear ratios are a little off
[22:40:12] <SWPadnos> what kinf og Honda? (car or motorcycle?)
[22:40:15] <SWPadnos> kind of
[22:40:25] <fenn> CRX Si 1.6l
[22:40:46] <SWPadnos> ok, so 2000 RPM ~= 60 MPH
[22:41:01] <SWPadnos> (+/- 100% :) )
[22:41:15] <archivist> near enough
[22:41:29] <SkinnYPuppY> I'd like another CRX some day fun cars
[22:43:24] <archivist> 150000 miles at 60mph is 2500 hours
[22:44:39] <fenn> yeah and 2500/(10000/1500) = 375 hours
[22:45:46] <fenn> so anyway what does that mean? what is a good MTBF for home-brew spindle seals?
[22:45:56] <archivist> and 3e8 total revs
[22:46:52] <SkinnYPuppY> Felt may do fine
[22:47:32] <archivist> labyrinth for lowest friction
[22:47:58] <fenn> i was thinking just let it leak and then catch the oil coming off a flinger plate
[22:48:42] <fenn> seals also keep dirt out of the spindle though
[22:48:47] <SkinnYPuppY> Old aircooled vw's had an oilslinger on the pulley crank and no seal at the pulley
[22:49:19] <archivist> they probably had a labyrinth as well
[22:49:32] <archivist> or screw
[22:50:06] <SkinnYPuppY> Screw vanes made on the pulley
[22:51:23] <archivist> oil flinger is probably a one bladed labyrinth
[22:52:04] <SkinnYPuppY> But a known issue people fix with a real seal when they add paper filtering to try to get any longetivity in dry areas
[23:02:57] <gene> hi guys; whats the syntax to run stepconf using an existing set of configs for a seed?
[23:05:00] <archivist> click "the use a current config button"
[23:05:12] <SWPadnos> assuming that config was generated with stepconf
[23:10:30] <gene> humm, its not been modified other than correcting the scale signs, but the dir looks empty
[23:26:55] <gene> so i make a new one.. I see I can change the sign of the tpi of the screw and reverse the tables motion.
[23:27:22] <gene> Is the jog arrow the direction the table moves, or the bit in the work?
[23:31:51] <gene> I used the bit in the work, but for the Y, the keyboard isn't used, only the jog buttons, so which way should the Y table move for a right arrow jog?
[23:33:00] <gene> Steve?
[23:49:09] <gene> I don't think stepconf is quite ready for prime time. This time I made sure the machine had limit settings out of the way by several inches
[23:49:49] <gene> but the file has MIN_LIMIT = -.01" for 2 of the axis's, and it won't come out of estop