#emc | Logs for 2008-03-09

[00:08:52] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[00:46:37] <BigJohnT> anyone know how to make a big F1 button for a keyboard?
[00:47:39] <alex_joni> why not a proper estop mushroom?
[00:48:09] <SWPLinux> and suporting hardware
[00:48:13] <BigJohnT> it's for my dad he is 82 and plays age of empires and the F1 is the pause button
[00:48:13] <SWPLinux> +p
[00:48:17] <SWPLinux> heh
[00:48:32] <alex_joni> guess halui is out of the question then :)
[00:48:43] <BigJohnT> yea I guess so
[00:48:46] <SWPLinux> and it's not really E-stop ;)
[00:49:21] <BigJohnT> If I could make him a big red push button to do the F1 key it would make it easier for hime
[00:49:23] <BigJohnT> him
[00:50:31] <BigJohnT> just a shot in the dark to see if anyone here knew how
[00:50:58] <alex_joni> I'd get an USB keyb, and hack that one
[00:51:08] <alex_joni> build a big button, and connect it to the proper wires
[00:51:22] <SWPLinux> one possibility is to get one of those key-to-keyboard things (like they use for MAME cabinets) and wire up a big button to that
[00:51:24] <BigJohnT> he has a usb keyboard
[00:51:37] <SWPLinux> the idea is to use another one so you can hack it up
[00:51:39] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: one you can cut apart
[00:51:50] <BigJohnT> ok I have plenty laying around
[00:52:02] <BigJohnT> can you plug two keyboards in?
[00:52:08] <alex_joni> yes
[00:52:23] <BigJohnT> ok, I'll give that a try
[00:52:34] <alex_joni> try it first.. before hacking up the keyb
[00:52:44] <BigJohnT> BTW your up real late alex_joni
[00:52:55] <alex_joni> I know.. had an afternoon sleep
[00:53:07] <BigJohnT> I love a nap on the weekend
[00:53:28] <alex_joni> well.. I do too.. except when I can't sleep afterwards
[00:53:46] <BigJohnT> I can sleep at the drop of a hat
[00:54:03] <BigJohnT> ok it's not real pretty but the picture quality is better. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Plasma011.jpg
[00:54:24] <BigJohnT> Oh Boy I get to hack up a keyboard!
[00:55:09] <BigJohnT> I need to fit a ball screw to my lathe cross slide...
[01:02:35] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT looks around for an old keyboard and a 9" angle grinder
[01:06:00] <SWPadnos> a screwdriver might be more appropriate
[01:06:20] <BigJohnT> LOL, but not as much fun!
[01:07:02] <SWPadnos> well, that goes without saying
[01:07:03] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT flipps keyboard over, there is some screws there after all
[01:08:06] <BigJohnT> ok, I'll put the angle grinder back up...
[01:14:19] <BigJohnT> cool, I found a hack on instructables for the keyboard
[01:16:48] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT hears the dinner bell so ttugl
[01:20:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Looky what I found... http://areca.us/products/ide_to_sata_ll_sub.htm
[01:25:20] <SWPadnos> cool
[01:26:44] <SWPadnos> strange that they have SATA2 for the drives but SATA1 for the host connection
[01:27:05] <SWPadnos> if anything, I'd want it the other way around
[02:03:55] <skunkworks_> http://www.jhchoppers.com/ebay/cnc/ATC%20Testing%201%20to%202.wmv
[02:04:15] <skunkworks_> seems like a lot of 'stuff' to do what it does
[02:04:28] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53998
[02:08:30] <SWPLinux> man, that's a lot of work
[02:08:53] <SWPLinux> certainly doesn't look like the most efficient option - separate motors per tool?
[02:09:29] <SWPLinux> no power drawbar (so it's not complete), and R8 needs spindle orient for toolchange
[02:12:11] <fenn> i dont get it. why not just lower the quill or whatever
[02:12:52] <SWPLinux> lowering the quill brings the drawbar out of reach of the air wrench he's using for a power drawbar
[02:15:34] <SWPLinux> and without spindle orient (which I'm assuming he doesn't have), he's pounding the hell out of the R8 taper (around the slot in the toolholder / the peg in the taper)
[02:16:00] <fenn> by spinning it in the taper socket?
[02:17:03] <SWPLinux> yeah - I'm betting that the drawbar grabs the collet, then when it binds on the peg, it ends up spinning the collet until it's correctly oriented, at which time it pulls up into the taper and tightens
[02:17:17] <SWPLinux> scraping all the way
[02:17:37] <SWPLinux> I'm not sure if that can happen though - you may need a longer drawbar to even reach that far
[02:17:49] <SWPLinux> (and who knows, he may have an orient function)
[02:19:00] <fenn> something has to keep the spindle from turning when the air wrench is banging on it. probably the motor dynamic braking
[02:21:23] <fenn> you could make a frankenstein impact socket to act like a long spline (so you can tighten the drawbar with the quill down)
[02:23:22] <SWPadnos> there's a brake for the spindle, you don't need a drive on the motor to prevent motion
[02:24:03] <fenn> oh i figured it had some universal motor that you could just short the terminals
[02:24:23] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:24:26] <SWPadnos> seems unlikely
[02:24:31] <fenn> easier than adding a solenoid to pull the brake, and orienting it so the brake works, etc
[02:24:34] <skunkworks_> I think there is enough mass in the spindle for it not to be a problem..
[02:24:52] <SWPadnos> not really - it's pretty easy to turn by hand
[02:26:52] <fenn> you could have a snap-fit catcher that goes on the end of the quill to catch the toolholder as it drops out
[02:27:25] <fenn> so you loosen/tighten the taper when the quill is up, but the catcher holds it in approximately the right place as you move up/down
[02:28:20] <SWPadnos> huh?
[02:28:42] <fenn> the mazak used ball detents, but you could also use some kind of elastic claw shape
[02:29:20] <fenn> lower quill onto tool rack. "clunk" tool is held in catcher. raise quill. run air wrench to tighten taper
[02:30:07] <SWPadnos> ah - then you need a claw to pull it out (like the mazak)
[02:30:32] <fenn> nah you can just drop it (need something to loosen the claw though)
[02:30:36] <SWPadnos> and you still need some spindle orient I think
[02:30:46] <SWPadnos> might as well have a spindle brake then, huh?
[02:30:47] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29060&highlight=impact+wrench
[02:30:54] <fenn> why spindle orient?
[02:31:08] <SWPadnos> because there are keys on the toolholders
[02:31:15] <fenn> bah
[02:33:31] <fenn> these are guys with cnc equipment so why do we see so many mediocre solutions?
[02:35:00] <skunkworks_> heh :)
[02:35:45] <SWPadnos> what I don't understand is why someone thinks that 6 (or 12) stepper motors and associated electronics is a good idea for a toolchanger :)
[02:36:28] <eric_U> haas does it with one motor?
[02:36:28] <cradek> I agree that's the amazing part
[02:37:10] <SWPadnos> as far as the vertical motion goes, you could just have the pockets on the table, and raise the knee
[02:37:22] <SWPadnos> that would be much less expensive, and you'd get a powered knee out of the deal
[02:37:24] <fenn> yeah if there's a knee
[02:38:06] <fenn> would be a lot simpler than the catcher stuff
[02:38:15] <eric_U> I want a powered knee, but I'm too lazy to fix the air assist
[02:38:37] <SWPadnos> according to some people, air assist isn't needed
[02:38:51] <fenn> with enough gear down
[02:39:00] <eric_U> my knee weighs about the same as a series I bridgeport
[02:39:18] <SWPadnos> ok, well the people I've heard that from are using BPs, so YMMV
[02:39:27] <eric_U> not sure how long the leadscrew is gonna last
[02:39:43] <SWPadnos> doesn't really matter much - there's no backlash due to the weight
[02:39:56] <SWPadnos> as long as you map errors from time to time, you're fine
[02:40:28] <eric_U> I suppose, but it's a lot of weight on an acme thread, that's gonna cause some galling
[02:40:55] <SWPadnos> what kind of machine do you have?
[02:40:56] <fenn> just cover it with a huge black glob of moly grease :)
[02:41:06] <eric_U> series II bp
[02:41:18] <SWPadnos> people seem to forget that the knee was actually designed as a motion axis just like saddle and table
[02:41:29] <SWPadnos> so you should be able to move it around
[02:41:36] <eric_U> yes, but it was also designed to have an air assist
[02:41:49] <eric_U> built into the pedestal
[02:42:00] <SWPadnos> well in that case, I'd fix that ;)
[02:42:14] <eric_U> I know, but it weighs about the same as a bp series I
[02:42:26] <fenn> get a car jack..
[02:42:28] <eric_U> :)
[02:42:45] <eric_U> I can raise it up, block it and take out the pedestal
[02:42:55] <eric_U> but I'm too lazy
[02:43:02] <fenn> meh
[02:43:22] <eric_U> the earlier series II actually used a ballscrew on the knee
[02:43:46] <eric_U> I want to retrofit mine
[02:44:06] <fenn> i predict that if you get it working you'll forget all about retrofitting it
[02:44:24] <eric_U> it's so hard to move that knee, I dunno
[02:44:32] <eric_U> but you're probably right
[02:50:31] <eric_U> conditions must be bad, township sent the plows out
[02:50:46] <jmkasunich> its pretty bad here
[02:51:06] <jmkasunich> I ran the snowblower this morning - cutting thru knee high drifts
[02:51:09] <eric_U> we got rain all week
[02:51:13] <jmkasunich> this evening I can't even tell I did it
[02:51:58] <eric_U> chimney finally gave in and started dripping
[02:52:04] <jmkasunich> well, I got lights and camera, no action yet
[02:52:12] <skunkworks_> aww
[02:52:18] <jmkasunich> trying to video turning a fusee (tapered thread)
[02:52:42] <jmkasunich> fscking piece of crap camera driver / video capture utility
[02:53:06] <jmkasunich> and the camera can barely see the threads - its quite low resolution
[02:53:10] <eric_U> I need to put my frame grabber in the camera
[02:53:14] <eric_U> computer
[02:53:54] <eric_U> I want a program that recognizes if my daughter misses the bus
[03:05:28] <skunkworks_> do you have a digital camera that will do video.. I have a cheap digital camera that will do decent video
[03:18:58] <jmkasunich> well, the good news is I have a video
[03:19:05] <jmkasunich> the bad news is its over a gigabyte
[03:19:19] <SWPadnos> gotta increase the feedrates ;)
[03:19:32] <jmkasunich> gotta improve the compression
[03:20:10] <SWPadnos> too easy
[03:20:31] <SWPadnos> turning your Shoptask into a HSM would also be more impressive anyway :)
[03:20:45] <jmkasunich> 3:26 duration, 640x480 res, 1.7G
[03:20:58] <SWPadnos> ouch
[03:21:15] <SWPadnos> compression should definitely take care of that then
[03:21:20] <jmkasunich> its on my windows box, cause I didn't want to fight with drivers
[03:21:32] <SWPadnos> that's closer to the size of a full-length movie on DVD
[03:21:34] <jmkasunich> anybody know something about video post-processing
[03:21:55] <SWPadnos> didn't jepler or someone figure out a magic incantation at Fest last year?
[03:22:03] <SWPadnos> (which might still be in your user dir)
[03:22:13] <jmkasunich> that incantation turned single frames into a movie
[03:22:24] <jmkasunich> this is already a movie, in some dialect of AVI
[03:22:26] <SWPadnos> oh, you need to transcode
[03:22:29] <JymmmEMC> You can reduce using divx
[03:22:32] <jmkasunich> also, its on the dose box
[03:23:12] <JymmmEMC> how small you want it?
[03:23:23] <jmkasunich> small enough to upload to youtube
[03:23:29] <jmkasunich> I think they have a limit of 100M
[03:24:07] <JymmmEMC> shit, all my video stuf ins in the other machine, hang on...
[03:24:43] <jmkasunich> I have 768K upload bandwidth, so 100M will take a about a half hour
[03:24:59] <jmkasunich> uploading the original is out of the question - whatever processing is done needs done here
[03:25:30] <JymmmEMC> yeah, so?
[03:25:46] <JymmmEMC> you pay by the mg or what?
[03:25:49] <JymmmEMC> MB
[03:26:07] <jmkasunich> I don't want to spend all night
[03:26:08] <SWPadnos> it takes a day to upload a gig via DSL
[03:26:23] <jmkasunich> and this is closer to 2 gig than 1
[03:26:48] <JymmmEMC> it's gonna take longer to transcode it - about 12 to 20 hours
[03:27:33] <SWPadnos> it shouldn't
[03:27:44] <JymmmEMC> 2gb to under 100MB.... heh
[03:27:50] <SWPadnos> I suspect it's not actually compressed at all at the moment
[03:28:03] <jmkasunich> its only 3 minutes and 26 seconds....
[03:28:04] <SWPadnos> 640x480x3 = ~1M/frame
[03:28:21] <jmkasunich> and I think it was only doing about 10 frames/second
[03:28:30] <SWPadnos> oh, in that case it's not compressed
[03:28:39] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: Then whatcha waiting for... get to it! LOL
[03:28:56] <cradek> do you have mencoder?
[03:29:01] <SWPadnos> ~200 seconds * 10 or so * 921.6k ~= 1.7G :)
[03:29:31] <jmkasunich> cradek: I think so - I'm pretty sure we used it for the time-lapse
[03:29:49] <jmkasunich> the internet says the camera output is using an SP54 codec (I think)
[03:30:07] <cradek> mencoder in.avi -o out.avi -oac copy -ovc lavc -lavcopts vbitrate=250
[03:30:37] <cradek> (maybe)
[03:30:37] <SWPadnos> what he said
[03:30:42] <SWPadnos> (what did he say?)
[03:30:47] <jmkasunich> now can you tell me how to copy the file to my linux box from the doze lappy?
[03:31:05] <JymmmEMC> smb://
[03:31:08] <cradek> uh
[03:31:09] <SWPadnos> do you have networking or USB on the windows machine?
[03:31:16] <cradek> usb? network?
[03:31:38] <cradek> floppies?
[03:31:40] <JymmmEMC> smb://windowsip/sharename
[03:32:39] <SWPadnos> Places-> network -> entire network -> windows network -> <name of windows network> -> <name of laptop> -> share :)
[03:33:26] <JymmmEMC> On the winbox, right click the fold and select SHARE, then browse from your nix box to that share name
[03:33:45] <SWPLinux> hmmm. work laptop - could be locked down somewhat
[03:34:02] <SWPLinux> (then again, there's VMWare on it, so who knos)
[03:34:06] <SWPLinux> knows
[03:34:59] <jmkasunich> my largest usb stick is 1G, so that won't work
[03:35:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:35:08] <jmkasunich> messing with network stuff now
[03:35:10] <cradek> compress it
[03:35:10] <JymmmEMC> Then again, xp there is Movie Maker that will reduce the size down too
[03:35:16] <SWPadnos> I can fax you a 2G if you like
[03:38:22] <jmkasunich> movie maker is probably the way to go
[03:38:31] <jmkasunich> compress on the doze box, and upload from there
[03:38:57] <jmkasunich> all the click and drool "how to youtube" instructions are aimed at that environment anyway
[03:38:58] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: If you haven't already done so, install the SP54 Codec on that box first.
[03:39:11] <SkinnYPuppY> In regards to the r8 retrofits, they take out the alignment pin so no orient problem.
[03:40:29] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: it must already be there - media player can play the original movie, and movie maker has opened it
[03:40:37] <jmkasunich> I'm at the RTFM stage now
[03:40:41] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: ok, cool.
[03:41:27] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: turn off and close any programs... including virus scanner
[03:42:49] <jmkasunich> there's a limit to what I can do
[03:44:56] <gezar> eric_U: you around?
[03:46:52] <jmkasunich> it says it will take a minute or so to compress to 20M
[03:47:00] <jmkasunich> (there must have been next to no compression originally)
[03:49:21] <jmkasunich> stupid movie-maker
[03:49:41] <jmkasunich> it did some wizard thing, broke the movie into clips and did bits and pieces
[03:50:07] <JymmmEMC> No, those are where it was paused originally
[03:50:23] <JymmmEMC> paused or stopped
[03:52:50] <jmkasunich> no, there were no pauses or stops
[03:52:58] <jmkasunich> I think I got it figured out, resaving now
[03:53:15] <jmkasunich> I ran a "automovie" thing since I didn't know how to use moviemaker
[03:53:41] <jmkasunich> the initial load split the file into 16 shots, even tho there are no transitions or anything in the original movie
[03:53:56] <jmkasunich> the wizard took a few seconds from each block, and did fades, etc, between them
[03:54:11] <JymmmEMC> If you drag each of those "thumbnails" to the timeline it'll make the movie
[03:54:21] <jmkasunich> but after seeing how the wizard worked, I figured out the user interface enough to do what you just said
[03:54:36] <jmkasunich> its compressing now
[04:05:52] <jmkasunich> uploading - kinda lame, there is no progress bar
[04:20:15] <dmess> hi all
[04:27:56] <jmkasunich> "
[04:27:56] <jmkasunich> If you have recently uploaded this video, you may need to wait a few minutes for the video to process."
[04:28:02] <jmkasunich> hurry up hurry up....
[04:28:49] <SWPadnos> that means "please wait while our amazing technology degrades your video quality even further!"
[04:29:26] <jmkasunich> I watched the compressed version (not youtubified yet) and it looked pretty good - wound up at 39 meg
[04:29:56] <SWPadnos> it should be interesting to see the difference :)
[04:33:32] <jmkasunich> http://youtube.com/watch?v=ACvRilmIKDQ
[04:35:00] <SWPadnos> cool stuff!
[04:35:22] <SWPadnos> you need mist coolant ;)
[04:35:27] <jmkasunich> heh
[04:37:28] <jmkasunich> I'm quite pleased with the roughing
[04:37:45] <SWPadnos> yeah - it's pretty cool
[04:38:26] <SWPadnos> the only optimization I'd want to see (which I don't know about doing in G-code subroutines) would be to skip any moves that move outside the stock radius
[04:38:35] <SWPadnos> maybe some parameter could tell the sub that
[04:38:40] <jmkasunich> I rapid them
[04:38:45] <SWPadnos> oh, ok
[04:38:53] <SWPadnos> they did look faster :)
[04:39:08] <SWPadnos> ah, right, you still execute them just in case a later move ges back inside the diameter
[04:39:12] <SWPadnos> goes
[04:39:13] <jmkasunich> if you know the diameter is monotonically increasing, it would be easy to cut it short
[04:40:25] <dmess> make and install the mating nut
[04:40:30] <jmkasunich> heh
[04:40:50] <jmkasunich> cast it out of epoxy
[04:41:22] <dmess> still uninstallable or extractable
[04:41:28] <jmkasunich> yep
[04:45:06] <jmkasunich> the pitch varies from 40 tpi (the skinny part) to about 22 tpi at the end
[04:47:08] <dmess> nice work... totally useless... but nice programming
[04:47:16] <jmkasunich> its not useless
[04:47:33] <jmkasunich> that was the "transmission" for a rat-trap powered vehicle
[04:47:35] <dmess> ever used it on a real part??
[04:47:53] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/eng-week-02-21-08.html
[04:48:07] <jmkasunich> click on the 2nd photo
[04:48:47] <dmess> compressor scrolls is all i see it working for.. and the machine would have to haul ass
[04:49:00] <toastydeath> uh he just showed what it's used for
[04:49:37] <jmkasunich> and clock fusees: http://www.villagetimekeepers.com/clockproject.htm
[04:49:52] <dmess> neat
[04:53:34] <jmkasunich> I admit there aren't many parts that need both variable diameter and variable pitch
[04:53:58] <jmkasunich> plastic extrusion screws are the only thing I can think of, and I bet they're milled, not turned
[04:56:14] <toastydeath> ground
[04:56:23] <toastydeath> creep grind + finish grind
[04:56:56] <toastydeath> also a lot of mixing equipment requires variable pitch/diameter
[04:57:01] <toastydeath> for pharmaceuticals
[04:57:11] <toastydeath> some extrusion equipment
[04:57:17] <toastydeath> for other productws
[04:57:21] <toastydeath> *products
[04:58:15] <eric_U> any good tutorials for using opengl and python?
[05:21:58] <eric_U> I think lewing is trying to send us a message in morse code
[07:16:44] <ds2> anyone know if there is a quick test for checking a thrust bearing (small, used on the X axis of a lathe)
[07:18:12] <toastydeath> other than sound and temperature, no
[07:18:34] <toastydeath> spindle speed max, it should not be too loud
[07:19:23] <toastydeath> let it run for a bit, and feel the bearing housing
[07:19:38] <toastydeath> it should be warm, possibly hot, but not to the point of burning you
[07:19:42] <toastydeath> if it burns you, it's bad
[07:20:29] <ds2> let me give you the history -
[07:20:59] <ds2> trying to fix up an old CNC lathe for use with EMC; the X axis had about 0.010-0.020 of lash; turns out there is play on the screw
[07:21:33] <toastydeath> oh whoops.
[07:21:35] <toastydeath> sorry.
[07:22:02] <toastydeath> i am assuming there is more to it?
[07:22:22] <ds2> so today I finally got around to disassembling it; the mount is: nut, star washer, regular washer (thrust washer?), roller (?) thrust washer, bronze bushing, thrust bearing of the same kind, washing/thrustwasher, a "flange" on the ball screw
[07:22:46] <ds2> this is where i am at - can't find anything wrong so I can either reassemble and hope or ?????
[07:22:55] <toastydeath> what actually has the backlash
[07:23:00] <toastydeath> it's something in the screw itself?
[07:23:04] <toastydeath> like in that stack
[07:23:06] <ds2> the screw "mount"
[07:23:07] <toastydeath> and not the nut?
[07:23:12] <toastydeath> man that sucks
[07:23:13] <ds2> not the nut, the nut is tight
[07:23:30] <ds2> yep. don't want to blindly replace the thrust washers
[07:23:51] <toastydeath> is it a roller bearing?
[07:23:56] <ds2> yep
[07:24:12] <toastydeath> i'd hold it gently in a vise, put an indicator on one side of the bushing
[07:24:13] <toastydeath> er
[07:24:14] <toastydeath> bearing
[07:24:25] <toastydeath> and grab the ID, and give it a gentle push in and out
[07:24:34] <toastydeath> and see if your .020 show up
[07:24:53] <toastydeath> or in, whatever
[07:24:57] <ds2> Hmmm
[07:25:22] <toastydeath> it depends on what kind of loads the bearing is designed to handle
[07:25:25] <ds2> not sure if that would help as he bearing has a permanent thrust surface on one side
[07:25:47] <ds2> it is not open on bothsides like the ones i have seen before
[07:26:08] <toastydeath> huh. i don't know what to tell you man
[07:26:42] <ds2> guess I should just reassemble and re-measure... maybe the thrust nut worked itself loose over time (it is 20+ years old and was stored outside for a while
[07:27:17] <toastydeath> it's worth a shot
[07:27:25] <toastydeath> but if that doesn't fix it, i don't have any suggestions =(
[07:27:58] <ds2> let me try that
[07:28:28] <toastydeath> i am going to bed, i wish you luck sir
[07:57:55] <alliancemetal> anybody in here use EMC with a PlasmaCAM system?
[08:33:05] <alliancemetal> anyone alive in here?
[12:16:11] <StepDi1> Can anybody help me get my limit/home switches working?
[12:16:52] <StepDi1> It is a lathe, and the x-axis seems to work ok, but the z just errors
[12:19:05] <StepDi1> The error is "joint 1 on limit switch"
[12:21:13] <OoBIGeye> have you tried to ad debounce?
[12:24:08] <StepDi1> how do you do that?
[12:25:23] <OoBIGeye> i dunno, but some one will comeby soon who has a clue :)
[12:27:03] <StepDi1> I'm reading about it on the net.
[12:30:28] <awallin> can you see the joint 1 limit switch working correctly with halmeter?
[12:31:21] <StepDi1> Yes, it seems to be working ok, It is yellow when off the switch, and red when it is on.
[12:32:34] <awallin> and have you checked that this is the correct polarity that EMC wants? (e.g. check that the z-limit works the same as your x-limit)
[12:32:36] <StepDi1> I guess I should add that is errors when homing.
[12:33:35] <StepDi1> I used stepconf, and set both axis the same.
[12:33:48] <StepDi1> max + home
[12:34:10] <awallin> i don't know much about homing, esp. usign the limit switch for homing, sorry...
[12:35:32] <StepDi1> Thats ok, hopefully the homing guru will come along. ;)
[12:59:11] <alex_joni> StepDi1: it would be helpful if you coudl pastebin your ini file
[12:59:20] <alex_joni> did you create it yourself? or using stepconf?
[12:59:41] <alex_joni> do you home using Home All? or do you try to home each axis at a time?
[12:59:59] <alex_joni> after you homed X, and try to home Z, does X move off the limit switch?
[13:00:16] <alex_joni> do you have a shared pin for the limits?
[13:01:34] <BigJohnT> I just stepped in alex_joni, what is the question?
[13:02:44] <alex_joni> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:02:44] <alex_joni> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-03-09.txt
[13:03:07] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: roughly 40 minutes ago StepDi1 asked for help setting up homing/limits on a lathe
[13:03:41] <BigJohnT> ok, there are some bugs with homing in stepconf at the moment
[13:03:49] <alex_joni> there is a slight issue with stepconf and missing axes (Y in his case)
[13:03:52] <StepDi1> I used stepconf
[13:03:53] <BigJohnT> good morning alex
[13:04:03] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: I know.. that's why I wanted the file on pastebin
[13:04:18] <BigJohnT> yep the file on pastebin is the best way
[13:04:44] <StepDi1> I tried it both ways, home all, and each axis
[13:04:46] <alex_joni> StepDi1: open an editor (for example gedit), open the file, select all, copy, open a browser, go to http://www.pastebin.ca/ paste, give us the number
[13:05:04] <StepDi1> ok, hold on.
[13:06:52] <StepDi1> http://www.pastebin.ca/935212
[13:07:35] <StepDi1> The x-axis seems to be working ok
[13:09:53] <BigJohnT> does the z axis home first?
[13:10:40] <StepDi1> Yes
[13:11:14] <StepDi1> It stops as soon as it goes active low with "on limit" error
[13:11:14] <alex_joni> when do you get the error?
[13:11:16] <BigJohnT> StepDil: I just logged on can you repete the problem for me?
[13:11:22] <alex_joni> while homing X?
[13:11:25] <BigJohnT> Y?
[13:11:30] <StepDi1> No z
[13:11:38] <StepDi1> Never makes it to x
[13:12:04] <BigJohnT> is z going the wrong way after touching the switch
[13:12:07] <StepDi1> If I home x by it self ... X works
[13:12:29] <StepDi1> Does not go anyway stop as soon as active low
[13:12:48] <StepDi1> just like it ran into the limit
[13:13:00] <alex_joni> StepDi1: can you pastebin the hal file too?
[13:13:07] <StepDi1> ok
[13:13:46] <alex_joni> StepDi1: I notice you have SEARCH_VEL and LATCH_VEL
[13:13:57] <alex_joni> does it move on the switch, then back off, and on the switch again?
[13:14:36] <StepDi1> http://www.pastebin.ca/935220
[13:14:43] <StepDi1> No just on
[13:15:00] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_ini_homing.html
[13:15:05] <alex_joni> that's how it should move..
[13:15:18] <alex_joni> btw.. LATCH_VEL should usually be way lower than SEARCH_VEL
[13:15:47] <StepDi1> It does that on the x, but not the z
[13:15:51] <BigJohnT> that could be the problem
[13:15:53] <alex_joni> StepDi1: you need to change the hal file
[13:15:55] <alex_joni> net max-home-z => axis.1.home-sw-in
[13:15:55] <alex_joni> net max-home-z => axis.1.pos-lim-sw-in
[13:16:03] <alex_joni> those need to be *.2.*
[13:16:42] <alex_joni> as it is now, emc2 think it's homing Z, but the error is on axis 1 (which is Y)
[13:17:01] <BigJohnT> by george you have found it
[13:17:05] <alex_joni> and therefore it trips with an error, as it didn't expect any limits activated on Y
[13:17:25] <BigJohnT> is that a bug in stepconf
[13:17:27] <StepDi1> I thought about that, but wondered why the rest of the axis used a *.1*
[13:17:39] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: yes, it's a bug in stepconf
[13:17:48] <alex_joni> StepDi1: only axis.* needs to have a 2
[13:17:53] <alex_joni> stepgen is ok with .1
[13:17:59] <alex_joni> as you only have 2 stepgens
[13:18:14] <StepDi1> ok, let me give it a whirl
[13:18:22] <alex_joni> so you need to fix _only_ lines 57 and 58 from that pastebin
[13:20:01] <StepDi1> It works, must be a bug in stepconf.
[13:20:03] <BigJohnT> does jepler know about this one?
[13:20:20] <StepDi1> That is the first hand edit I have done
[13:20:47] <BigJohnT> if you run stepconf again you will have to change it back again
[13:21:52] <alex_joni> yup, any rerun of stepconf will overwrite your *fix*
[13:22:10] <alex_joni> StepDi1: also, take a moment to read about SEARCH_VEL and LATCH_VEL
[13:22:29] <alex_joni> SEARCH_VEL is for a rough localisation of the switch (so it doesn't take too much time to find it)
[13:22:45] <alex_joni> and LATCH_VEL is the one for a precise localisation (slow speed, high precision)
[13:22:56] <StepDi1> I set LATCH_VEL to half SEARCH_VEL
[13:24:11] <StepDi1> i have another question. Can i do lathe threading with a 1 pulse per rev encoder on the spindle?
[13:26:04] <alex_joni> in theory yes
[13:26:12] <BigJohnT> I saw some chatter on the mail list but forgot the specifics
[13:26:18] <alex_joni> if the results are good enough, that's for you to figure out
[13:26:39] <alex_joni> StepDi1: if your spindle speed is fairly constant, then it might be enough
[13:26:55] <alex_joni> that means taking cuts which don't influence the spindle speed much
[13:27:23] <StepDi1> I could change my trigger to more pulses. I guess the real question is X pulses on 1 input pin.
[13:28:24] <alex_joni> you need a index pulse
[13:29:01] <StepDi1> meaning 2 input pin on a parl. port?
[13:29:03] <alex_joni> that is absolutely necessary (so multiple passes start in the same location)
[13:29:06] <alex_joni> yep
[13:29:35] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: does jepler know about the homing bug?
[13:29:49] <StepDi1> I was afraid you were going to say that :(
[13:30:56] <alex_joni> StepDi1: as I said.. you might get away using only the index pulse
[13:31:11] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: he might know, but I'll bug him about it
[13:31:39] <BigJohnT> ok, then I won't
[13:31:52] <StepDi1> Could you send me in a direction on the hal/ini setup?
[13:32:54] <alex_joni> StepDi1: there are sample configs included with emc2
[13:33:03] <alex_joni> probably nist-lathe is close
[13:34:02] <alex_joni> there is also a lathe in sim
[13:34:22] <alex_joni> lathe.hal is what you want
[13:35:09] <StepDi1> I'm digging for it now
[13:40:35] <alex_joni> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1910452&group_id=6744&atid=106744
[13:42:28] <BigJohnT> now you have done it you bugged jepler
[13:46:14] <alex_joni> bbl
[13:46:32] <BigJohnT> cul
[14:32:17] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[14:52:53] <Ito_Brazil> Hello ALL !
[14:53:44] <Ito_Brazil> I installed the new EMC2.2, WOW ! I am using the outdated 2.05 because i couldn´t reconfigure my machine
[14:53:50] <Ito_Brazil> can anyone help?
[14:54:20] <Ito_Brazil> Sorry overtyping! My drives are PHASE-DRIVES
[14:56:04] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.1
[14:56:07] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[15:21:15] <Ito_Brazil> ./update-config.sh line77: sintax error
[15:21:40] <Ito_Brazil> md5sum: emc.nml was modified; yuo must update it by hand
[15:52:34] <BigJohnT> Ito_Brazil: Hang in there someone can answer your question, I'm not the one...
[16:11:12] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: very nice video
[16:12:00] <skunkworks> The link you have on the youtube page doesn't seem to exist.. http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask/fusee-1.html
[16:12:03] <skunkworks> yet..
[16:23:28] <JymmmEMC> url?
[16:25:16] <skunkworks> http://youtube.com/watch?v=ACvRilmIKDQ
[16:28:26] <cradek> it would be neat to see close-up photos of the finished part
[16:28:37] <cradek> those roughing passes do look great
[16:29:33] <cradek> darn, I guess there's no sound
[16:29:41] <JymmmEMC> it took multiple passes to thread; how is it not ruining the previous thread pass?
[16:29:41] <alex_joni> too bad there's no sound
[16:29:57] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: the encoder has an index impulse
[16:30:07] <alex_joni> it always syncs on that before running the pass
[16:30:10] <JymmmEMC> ah
[16:30:31] <alex_joni> it's not very obvious but it sits and waits a bit before the run
[16:30:45] <cradek> cutting threads always takes multiple passes that have to line up
[16:30:47] <JymmmEMC> those were tiny threads, what if you were cutting someing like 1/4-20?
[16:31:04] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tFWmeG-2uVo&feature=related
[16:31:09] <cradek> I think he said the left side is about 20 tpi and the right is about 40
[16:31:32] <JymmmEMC> sorry, I meant some really course thread where you have to remove a lot of material
[16:31:36] <cradek> you should come to cnc workshop... I cut many many 1/4-20 threads there :-)
[16:31:50] <cradek> JymmmEMC: you just use more passes. the idea is the same
[16:31:54] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: look at the link I just sent
[16:31:56] <JymmmEMC> like acme thread or something like
[16:32:30] <JymmmEMC> ok, so multiple passes.
[16:32:53] <JymmmEMC> (i do wish that these video paused the end result though)
[16:33:17] <cradek> yeah, a photo would be great
[16:34:01] <JymmmEMC> M DV has a Snapshot button, where it takes a still on video for about 5 seconds.
[16:34:06] <JymmmEMC> My DV has a Snapshot button, where it takes a still on video for about 5 seconds.
[16:34:16] <JymmmEMC> that would be perfect here
[16:34:38] <jmkasunich> I haven't written the blog post that goes with the video yet - I'll put a close-up of the finished part there
[16:34:49] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: cool beans
[16:35:06] <jmkasunich> did we switch to DST today?
[16:35:10] <BigJohnT> jmkasunich: Sweet!
[16:35:10] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: you should tag your video with text overlay too
[16:35:13] <cradek> we did
[16:36:10] <dave_1> cool beans is right!
[16:36:10] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: http://youtube.com/watch?v=0q_q53wsyHU&feature=related
[16:37:04] <cradek> JymmmEMC: yes that's what you hav eto do if you don't have cnc :-)
[16:37:44] <JymmmEMC> I thought that was cnc
[16:37:50] <cradek> well he has to reverse the motor to back up - a real lathe lets you disengage the leadscrew
[16:38:03] <cradek> no, this is had threading
[16:38:06] <cradek> hand
[16:39:07] <BigJohnT> if your cutting metric threads on some lathes you have to back up...
[16:39:22] <cradek> yeah, what a pain
[16:39:43] <skunkworks> the monarch makes manual thread cutting pretty easy.. You can set stops to turn off the spindle..
[16:40:05] <cradek> why turn it off?
[16:40:13] <skunkworks> for us slow people..
[16:40:36] <skunkworks> that are not coordinated ;)
[16:40:39] <archivist> I like the sensible cut depths on jmkasunich's vid
[16:41:00] <BigJohnT> I stomp on the brake and disengage the feed and back out the tool all at once
[16:41:15] <JymmmEMC> heh
[16:41:17] <cradek> skunkworks: I've seen a "ramp" that presses the halfnut lever to disengage
[16:42:27] <BigJohnT> mine has a ramp to disengage the feed but not the half nut
[16:42:59] <BigJohnT> jmkasunich: what RPM are you threading at?
[16:42:59] <cradek> cnc is sure nice for lathes.
[16:43:14] <dave_1> quantum leap
[16:44:49] <dave_1> has anyone thought about really nasty threads like buttress?
[16:46:04] <jmkasunich> 580 RPM
[16:46:47] <BigJohnT> damm nice
[16:47:19] <BigJohnT> I have to thread at 60 with my manual lathe so I can see when to jump up and down on the brake and levers
[16:47:39] <jmkasunich> prior to CNC, I never threaded under power on the shoptask
[16:48:20] <BigJohnT> this has got to be better than a pull tab for a beer can then
[16:48:30] <cradek> I can easily thread at 1000rpm on my sherline
[16:48:35] <JymmmEMC> Gawd, this is so fscking weird... not used to actually having daytime weekends off yet.
[16:48:57] <alex_joni> http://www.peters-cnc-ecke.de/forumupload/uploadFiles/2142_122869528792_Mach3-Keyboard_000.png
[16:49:08] <dave_1> threading on a manual would be easier if one could rig a good way to back out the x rapidly. ;-)
[16:49:20] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT has gotta get/build a cnc lathe now
[16:49:40] <cradek> usually on a manual you need a relief cut at the end. with cnc you can just back out reliably
[16:49:41] <BigJohnT> dave I've thought of that a few times
[16:49:55] <cradek> alex_joni: oh god
[16:50:16] <alex_joni> cradek: some guy trying to build a special keyboard to control a machine
[16:50:26] <BigJohnT> something to back out the X feed knob at a certian spot on the Z travel
[16:50:31] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all! I am about to take down services for a tiny while to update it to the latest revision, while it's gone there will be NO services (nickserv, chanserv etc) -- downtime should be, er, hopefully a few minutes only, I will let you know when services are back up! Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
[16:50:33] <alex_joni> he says he wants to make plans and interface open
[16:50:51] <jmkasunich> silly man
[16:50:54] <cradek> alex_joni: onscreen, or a real keyboard?
[16:51:00] <alex_joni> real keyboard
[16:51:02] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC braces for impact!!!
[16:51:06] <alex_joni> serial port connected
[16:51:08] <cradek> oh that's not so bad
[16:51:15] <JymmmEMC> We're going for a ride kids!
[16:51:23] <cradek> from this photo, I thought he was making a (terrible) gui
[16:51:43] <BigJohnT> for gods sake man strap yourself down!
[16:51:44] <alex_joni> so far he's deciding on the layout
[16:52:01] <JymmmEMC> BigJohnT: you too!
[16:52:13] <dave_1> BigJohn .. I've considered a servo motor with stop for x+ and a micro switch limit for the backout
[16:52:22] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT is going to take a nap now
[16:53:44] <BigJohnT> dave_1 I was thinking a lot simpler method of just having a strap or something to "unscrew" the X as it travels down the Z
[16:54:26] <dave_1> One can pretty fancy if doing a lot of threading.
[16:54:42] <dave_1> I'm headed for cnc ... it is just not happening quickly
[16:54:53] <dave_1> other things keep getting in the way.
[16:54:57] <BigJohnT> I don't do much threading on the lathe
[16:55:16] <dave_1> My mazak did something wierd yesterday and I need to check it out.
[16:56:38] <dave_1> at this time my priorities are: mazak as primary machine, then get the surface grinder going, the the small vertical mill and finally the lathe
[16:57:14] <dave_1> gotta go get something done ... see ya
[16:57:25] <BigJohnT> I'm just trying to get my portable plasma table going
[16:57:44] <BigJohnT> bbl
[16:57:48] <dave_1> that should keep you out of trouble for awhile
[17:21:51] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all! Services upgrade went swimmingly, all should be back to normal! Thanks for the patience and have a great day!
[18:04:09] <dmess> Hi all... has anyone used VariCAD to any extent???
[18:18:58] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all! I know, you're all sick of hearing from me today -- we are however experiencing some most peculiar routing issues and I shall attempt to fix them by trying some magic, expect turbulence as I try bring Europe back to us!
[18:30:45] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all! Re-routing appears to have fixed the problem, we may however be experiencing a slight bit of lag while the affected side catches up! Again, thank you for your patience and for using freenode.
[19:01:26] <Ito_Brazil> Hello ALL, i need some help. i´m a 2.05 EMC user and need a help tu try the 2.2 aproach
[19:01:47] <Ito_Brazil> well, my machine drivers are a kind of diferent, i use PHASE DRIVES
[19:02:26] <Ito_Brazil> Anyone can show me where is the "new" stepgen ?
[19:04:44] <Ito_Brazil> I mean, i´m configuring the core_stepper.hal but not sure thats only those files to change on the directory
[19:33:36] <Ito_Brazil> Hello there! I need some help about stepgen configuration
[19:48:42] <BigJohnT> what do you need?
[19:52:20] <micges> hello all
[19:52:26] <BigJohnT> hello
[19:52:52] <BigJohnT> how is the laser coming along?
[19:53:32] <micges> very good
[19:54:11] <BigJohnT> cool
[19:54:24] <BigJohnT> I'm getting real close with my plasma cutter
[19:54:45] <micges> what left ?
[19:55:03] <alex_joni> table and XY axes
[19:55:07] <alex_joni> and building the frame
[19:55:14] <alex_joni> and buying the plasma machine
[19:55:20] <BigJohnT> finish the Z axis
[19:55:23] <alex_joni> and buying the fume extraction + table
[19:55:24] <alex_joni> :P
[19:55:31] <micges> hehe
[19:55:47] <BigJohnT> alex must be just starting his
[19:56:36] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: was talking about yours
[19:57:18] <BigJohnT> I have the table and the xy and the plasma cutter and the fume extraction etc.
[19:57:24] <micges> alex_joni: you also building something ?
[19:57:31] <BigJohnT> there is no frame as it is portable
[19:57:42] <BigJohnT> he's making fun of me...
[19:57:54] <micges> I know
[19:58:30] <Ito_Brazil> Hello dudes! I was using the 2.05 version of EMC2, now i´m trying the 2.2 but my configurations not worked
[19:58:38] <Ito_Brazil> can anyone help?
[19:58:49] <BigJohnT> stepper or servo?
[19:58:49] <micges> but I saw that everybody serious on EMC have/will/are making some machine :)
[19:59:04] <jmkasunich> alex made his tripod machine a while ago
[19:59:06] <BigJohnT> or programming
[19:59:30] <micges> or rettrofitting
[19:59:32] <alex_joni> that wasn't a serious machine.. but it worked
[20:00:00] <Ito_Brazil> alex_joni: please help me to solve my upgrade?
[20:00:19] <micges> most important that is working
[20:00:44] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT goes back out to my shop for a while
[20:01:04] <alex_joni> Ito_Brazil: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UPDATING
[20:01:42] <Ito_Brazil> alex_joni: Thanks! but my machine is a little different
[20:01:42] <jmkasunich> Ito_Brazil: did you do EVERYTHING on these pages:
[20:01:45] <jmkasunich> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.1
[20:01:49] <jmkasunich> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[20:02:12] <Ito_Brazil> I use phasedrives, i cant find the stepgen types on new manual
[20:02:14] <alex_joni> Ito_Brazil: the most changes are between 2.0.x and 2.1.x
[20:02:23] <alex_joni> Ito_Brazil: stepgen types haven't changed
[20:02:43] <Ito_Brazil> the sintaxe changed right?
[20:02:50] <alex_joni> not really
[20:03:15] <Ito_Brazil> on stepper.hal its a few different , but OK i will try some more hours
[20:03:33] <jmkasunich> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UPDATING
[20:03:50] <jmkasunich> that page is linked from BOTH of the previous pages, and shows the config file differences
[20:04:08] <Ito_Brazil> oke, tks!
[20:04:18] <jmkasunich> read section 1.3, stepgen and freqgen changes
[20:10:52] <Ito_Brazil> Some other (offtopic?) stuff happened
[20:12:51] <micges> alex_joni: can you check emc_devel ?
[20:14:08] <Ito_Brazil> i plugged an ISA LPT and torned off the onboard LPT1, on DOS it worked nice, on LINUX, no LPT seen
[20:14:41] <fenn> methinks alex is just jealous
[20:14:43] <alex_joni> ISA LPT is not plug&play.. right?
[20:14:55] <fenn> alex_joni: weren't you originally going to build a plasma table?
[20:14:59] <alex_joni> fenn: that sure is a right machine
[20:15:06] <alex_joni> s/right/damn fine/
[20:15:13] <alex_joni> fenn: not conventional table
[20:15:42] <fenn> er.. what?
[20:15:58] <alex_joni> I'm still dreaming of a cable tripod for plasma cutting
[20:16:01] <fenn> ah
[20:16:14] <alex_joni> but big.. 10x10m at least
[20:16:28] <fenn> i think it will swing around when you accelerate
[20:16:43] <fenn> unless you get near-zero jerk
[20:18:32] <fenn> but then it's hard to get the cutting speed constant
[20:18:36] <alex_joni> fenn: probably a tripod is not viable, and I'll have to do a hexapod
[20:18:44] <fenn> that's what i think
[20:19:14] <alex_joni> I'm also concearned with cable elongation at those lengths
[20:19:35] <fenn> maybe preload will help with stiffness (you can do preload since it's redundant kinematics)
[20:19:57] <fenn> but then you get no Z control (do you really need Z?)
[20:20:03] <alex_joni> yes
[20:20:12] <alex_joni> for torch height control
[20:20:23] <fenn> what's a typical range of movement?
[20:20:31] <alex_joni> up/down?
[20:20:34] <fenn> yes
[20:20:40] <alex_joni> 60-100mm should be enough
[20:20:48] <fenn> that's more than i expected
[20:21:06] <fenn> to accomodate material thickness? or just for cutting some distance above the surface?
[20:21:11] <alex_joni> well.. imagine thick sheets warping
[20:21:22] <alex_joni> metal sheets are never straight
[20:21:36] <alex_joni> maybe 50mm might be enough
[20:21:40] <alex_joni> but that's really tight
[20:21:45] <jmkasunich> "fun" weather here: http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/index.html
[20:22:25] <fenn> ok, well it might be easier to make a flying Z axis instead of going full-on hexapod
[20:22:38] <jmkasunich> flying Z?
[20:22:46] <jmkasunich> sounds like some dude ranch
[20:22:46] <fenn> the motor moves
[20:22:59] <jmkasunich> that won't fix the swinging problem
[20:24:01] <fenn> preload fixes the swinging (maybe) at a cost of not being able to loosen the cables and give you some Z movement
[20:24:35] <jmkasunich> you will always have Z, unless you pull the cables infinitely tight
[20:24:38] <fenn> or, you could have a pneumatic cylinder pushing on the moving head (regulated to produce a constant preload force)
[20:24:46] <jmkasunich> huh?
[20:24:57] <fenn> like the tricept robot
[20:25:18] <jmkasunich> what part of 10m x 10m cable tripod did you miss? that would be one huge cylinder, and a very tall roof to hold it
[20:25:26] <fenn> a cable tetrahedron with an artificial 'gravity' component
[20:25:32] <fenn> i'm just spewing ideas :)
[20:26:41] <jmkasunich> I can envision a regular cable hexapod, which would require significant height, and a largish moving platform
[20:26:47] <fenn> i guess you could do a hexapod with 3 cables going up and 3 going down, holding a rod vertically (or at whatever angle)
[20:26:57] <jmkasunich> or a pair of tripods, one controlling the bottom of a rod and the other the top
[20:26:59] <jmkasunich> what you just said
[20:27:02] <fenn> right
[20:27:32] <jmkasunich> the regular hexapod constrains rotation around the tool axis (which doesn't really matter for plasma)
[20:27:53] <alex_joni> you can't do 3 going down
[20:27:53] <fenn> or cnc
[20:27:59] <jmkasunich> the dual tripod doesn't, but it also doesn't rely on gravity for preload
[20:28:01] <alex_joni> because you have a big cutting table there
[20:28:17] <fenn> the motors would be suspended some distance above the cutting surface
[20:28:32] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: the ones going down are the same as the ones you had on your toy tripod
[20:28:35] <alex_joni> oh, so you'd have a long tool ?
[20:28:39] <jmkasunich> yeah
[20:28:46] <alex_joni> hmm.. that's interesting
[20:28:46] <fenn> it's more like a spar on a crane
[20:28:57] <jmkasunich> or a piece of pipe sticking off the back of the torch head
[20:29:00] <alex_joni> the bottom ones can be fully tight
[20:29:13] <alex_joni> that's where the torch attaches
[20:29:26] <alex_joni> then using the top ones one can even do beveling
[20:29:48] <jmkasunich> if work table is Z=0, top of work is Z=50mm or so, torch head is Z=100, winches at Z=500, and top of the "spar" would be Z=1500 or so
[20:30:01] <alex_joni> right
[20:30:20] <alex_joni> all winches at Z=500?
[20:30:29] <alex_joni> or maybe 3 at 500, and other 3 at 2000
[20:30:29] <jmkasunich> sure
[20:30:33] <jmkasunich> no
[20:30:48] <jmkasunich> if all are at 500, you aren't relying on gravity
[20:30:54] <alex_joni> right
[20:31:34] <fenn> i think someone will have to build one to find out what's wrong with the idea :)
[20:31:39] <jmkasunich> another trick that would make the kins a little less critical would be to spring load the spar, so cable tension is nearly constant even if you have small errors in the kins
[20:35:04] <fenn> i'm wondering where the preload comes from, since you have six degrees of freedom and six actuators
[20:35:22] <jmkasunich> rotation around the spar is uncontrolled
[20:35:51] <jmkasunich> so you are really only controlling 5 DOF with six actuators, and the sixth gives you preload
[20:36:20] <jmkasunich> (this assumes that the top three cables join at a single point, and the bottom three cables join at a single point - the tool can rotate around the line between those points
[20:36:35] <fenn> if you had two discs on the ends of the spar, and they were out of phase by 60 degrees, you could control the rotation (i think)
[20:36:46] <jmkasunich> I don't think so
[20:36:47] <alex_joni> I don't see how
[20:36:55] <jmkasunich> it would interact with Z
[20:36:59] <alex_joni> you can only control tilt
[20:37:28] <jmkasunich> if you tighten the bottom three cables and loosen the top three, the tool would turn to align the bottom disk with the winches, but it would also move up
[20:37:49] <fenn> if the cables weren't joining to the spar radially (like bike spokes)
[20:37:54] <jmkasunich> if you loosen the bottom and tighten the top, it would turn to align the top disk with the winches, but it would also go down
[20:38:09] <fenn> (then there are those new fancy radial spokes)
[20:38:47] <jmkasunich> I'd use a disk on the bottom, simply to keep it from rotating around the tool due to things like cable/hose drag
[20:38:59] <jmkasunich> there is no need to _control_ that rotation, just prevent it
[20:39:08] <fenn> sure
[20:39:18] <alex_joni> if you can mount the cutting head centered
[20:39:29] <jmkasunich> right - head shoots thru center of disk
[20:39:38] <jmkasunich> height sensors, etc, around the disk
[20:39:43] <alex_joni> right
[20:40:27] <jmkasunich> the spar could actually be a tripod of lightweight tubing, coming up from the edges of the disk where the lower cables are attached
[20:40:34] <jmkasunich> that would free up the center of the disk for the torch
[20:40:51] <fenn> right, or a triangular prism
[20:41:04] <jmkasunich> the three tubes would meet at the top, to form a "point" where the three top cables would attach
[20:41:08] <jmkasunich> light but rigid
[20:41:35] <fenn> hmm, no not a prism, an octahedron
[20:41:48] <jmkasunich> a triangular pyramid
[20:42:32] <alex_joni> I know.. let's put the cutting head consumables in the weight center of the pyrammid
[20:42:45] <alex_joni> then they get influenced by the pyramid power
[20:42:51] <jmkasunich> lol
[20:42:52] <alex_joni> and you don't have to change them so often :P
[20:43:09] <alex_joni> * alex_joni can't help it sometimes
[20:43:16] <fenn> and pyramids will sharpen endmills too :)
[20:44:15] <alex_joni> fenn: something to consider for your hexapod
[20:44:40] <fenn> http://www.instructables.com/id/EEUFGGNF5Y3YROZ/
[21:07:17] <skunkworks_> fenn: mythbusters did something on that.. I think it was busted.. Imagine that..
[21:07:44] <Vq^> :-O
[21:10:52] <OoBIGeye> * OoBIGeye is surprised!!! :O)
[21:11:47] <Vq^> http://xkcd.org/373/
[21:12:13] <skunkworks_> exactly
[21:12:46] <archivist> plus or minus some bs
[21:13:07] <toastydeath> i should put that on a print one day
[21:13:08] <toastydeath> at work
[21:13:15] <toastydeath> "5.125 +/- some crap"
[21:13:31] <owhite> hey people
[21:13:42] <Vq^> welcome mr White
[21:14:01] <alex_joni> evening owhite
[21:14:22] <archivist> toastydeath, I know someone who puts +-0
[21:14:32] <toastydeath> just 0?
[21:14:54] <toastydeath> are they like, employed
[21:14:57] <toastydeath> or is this just a hobby
[21:14:57] <archivist> no tolerance, zilch eff all
[21:15:24] <archivist> he actually means as close as you can get
[21:15:35] <owhite> hey. I was wondering what the current practice is for integrating pyvcp into AXIS is still as outlined on http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PyVCP
[21:15:38] <toastydeath> there is actually a standard for that
[21:15:44] <owhite> arg.
[21:15:47] <toastydeath> used on old school jig borers.
[21:16:04] <archivist> hmm he is old
[21:16:34] <toastydeath> i believe it's orthoganal dimensioning, everything comes from one 0,0
[21:16:36] <owhite> I was wondering if current practice for integrating pyvcp into AXIS is still as described in http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PyVCP
[21:16:40] <toastydeath> and there are no tolerances on the print
[21:16:45] <owhite> jepler: any comments on that?
[21:17:14] <awallin> owhite: it should be about correctly described on that page
[21:17:17] <toastydeath> i have one or two books where the practice is described
[21:18:16] <owhite> hm. there's another method described on http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/hal_vcp.html
[21:18:53] <awallin> how are they different?
[21:19:59] <awallin> oh, don't read the wiki text labelled 1jan2007, that's historical by now
[21:20:30] <awallin> you should just make your pyvcp xml file, then a HAL file that hooks stuff up, and then refer to these in the correct way in your ini file
[21:20:44] <owhite> I like that appraoch more :-)
[21:23:45] <awallin> the manual "1.4 Using pyVCP with AXIS" should be a pretty straightforward description of how it's done. A recent version of HAL might suggest you use 'net' instead of linksp in the HAL file
[21:24:18] <awallin> If you make an ineresting pyvcp panel do post it to the wiki or a link to the mailinglist or something!
[21:25:40] <owhite> yeah I've made a new circuit board that hangs off of a M5i20 card. It receives data from a laser, and also sends PWM signals to same from the M5i20 card. EMC/pyvcp is sending PWM controls to that board. There were some interesting tricks, at least to me, to make that happen.
[21:26:03] <owhite> I was planning on documenting it all and seeing if i could put it up on the wiki.
[21:26:06] <awallin> what are you doing with the laser?
[21:26:12] <owhite> cutting metal.
[21:26:45] <owhite> see http://nilno.com/laser_intro/
[21:27:00] <awallin> sounds cool, definitely worth documenting in the wiki or if you have your own site
[21:28:11] <owhite> just as soon as I get my pyvcp panel into axis . :-)
[21:29:06] <awallin> note that AXIS will probably re-name your pyvcp pins like so: pyvcp.mybutton so you might need to change your HAL file too
[21:29:29] <awallin> that's something I thing jepler/cradek could reasonably be asked to change in AXIS
[21:31:04] <owhite> yeah. the pyvcp panel is showing in axis but the buttons dont appear to be connected to anything. I'm doing some 'halcmd show stuff'
[21:31:56] <awallin> did you have the pyvcp all hooked up when it ran stand-alone?
[21:32:37] <owhite> yes.
[21:33:17] <awallin> if you put the same HAL file you used into postgui_hal= then the pin-names might be wrong due to the reason I mentioned above
[21:33:31] <awallin> HAL/EMC should complain about missing pin names at startup
[21:34:19] <owhite> not getting any complaints at start up.
[21:34:29] <owhite> not getting any complaints at start up
[21:34:41] <owhite> oh sorry. xchat screwed up.
[21:37:27] <awallin> check with halmeter or halcmd show what the pyvcp pins are called now that they are integrated into AXIS
[21:41:23] <JymmmEMC> On this page, click on FAQ, then on DEVICE, and read item #2 http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/tutorials/deviceTutorial.jsp?q_prodId=prod1050430
[21:56:22] <owhite> hm. looks like my .hal file that is passed to POSTGUI_HALFILE of my .ini does not want to load_rt hal_m5i20
[21:56:48] <alex_joni> it's a bit late to loadrt hal_m5i20 in the postgui
[21:57:31] <owhite> so I should split out the call to hal_m5i20 from the .hal stuff that handles gui-related pins, me thinks.
[21:58:02] <alex_joni> I bet you already have it there
[21:58:51] <owhite> was that a suggestion?
[21:58:54] <owhite> :-)
[21:59:07] <alex_joni> yeah, reread the hal files :P
[21:59:25] <alex_joni> there is one called motion something
[21:59:36] <owhite> right.
[21:59:37] <alex_joni> m5i20_motion.hal
[21:59:45] <alex_joni> in there there's the loadrt hal_m5i20
[21:59:49] <alex_joni> you only need that once
[22:00:18] <alex_joni> (that's why the call to loadrt hal_m5i20 in m5i20_io.hal is commented out)
[22:01:02] <owhite> okay let me poke around. I dont use a m5i20_motion.hal. but I can take a look at that example.
[22:03:05] <owhite> I think I can load it pre-GUI, then do the addf m5i20.0.digital-out-write servo-thread -1 in the post-GUI?
[22:07:15] <alex_joni> you could
[22:07:19] <alex_joni> bbl..
[22:26:28] <mib_0ft8l9sg> mib_0ft8l9sg is now known as [ALS]
[22:28:03] <[ALS]> cradek: did you get my message yesterday about the diesel pump?
[22:29:57] <[ALS]> [ALS] is now known as ALS
[22:47:19] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:48:05] <skunkworks_> night alex
[22:48:54] <skunkworks_> jmkasunich: you're strictly using the printer port for everything right now correct? reading encoder back in.. What count encoder is it?
[22:59:51] <cradek> ALS: no I guess I didn't - do you mean irc or email?
[23:01:03] <ALS> irc
[23:02:03] <cradek> sorry I looked back and still don't spot it
[23:08:46] <cradek> ALS: still no luck. what did you say?
[23:09:24] <ALS> search ALS
[23:10:42] <ALS> cradek: deisel? ck the delivery valve is not stuck open on the pump, after sitting lease get gui and get stuck open and piston will pull the fuel back down and not reload
[23:11:15] <ALS> sometimes you can take a small alluminum rod and with a small hammer tap on the top of the valve seat through the hole under the line coming out of the pump, you ck and see if its stuck up by measuring each hight of the valve
[23:12:36] <cradek> so poke a rod in the output hole of the injector pump and see if it's stuck up or down?
[23:13:04] <ALS> measuring each hight of the valve
[23:13:23] <cradek> ok interesting, I'll try carefully doing that
[23:13:46] <ALS> if you tap on it and it opens you will here the spring pop it shut
[23:13:49] <cradek> they are pushed up but have a spring to pull them back against the cam?
[23:14:09] <ALS> alluminum rod
[23:14:25] <cradek> ok
[23:14:32] <cradek> (seems like a very small hole)
[23:14:39] <cradek> I might have brass that size
[23:14:57] <ALS> the fuel pushes the valve open and closes
[23:15:31] <ALS> how small?
[23:15:45] <cradek> .030 maybe?
[23:16:33] <ALS> ok maybe the top block comes off?
[23:17:11] <cradek> don't think so...
[23:17:29] <ALS> try and measure the high with a small pin
[23:17:40] <archivist> clearances are in the microns, dont let any grit in
[23:18:23] <ALS> who makes the pump
[23:18:47] <cradek> not sure, says yanmar on it
[23:20:47] <ALS> thats is what the problem sounds like to me though stuck open valve
[23:22:10] <ALS> the top of the valve may unscrew but usally special sockets required
[23:22:33] <archivist> I have had the element stick
[23:23:01] <ALS> element?
[23:23:33] <cradek> bbl, thanks ALS
[23:23:40] <cradek> and archivist
[23:23:46] <ALS> k
[23:24:37] <archivist> pump has a number of parts inner piston and outer element thats rotated in some types to set cutoff
[23:26:04] <mib_ot78xcf1> mib_ot78xcf1 is now known as ALS
[23:26:33] <ALS> sorry
[23:27:31] <ALS> fuel meter helix
[23:27:45] <archivist> yup
[23:28:28] <ALS> usally is control by a rack
[23:58:24] <ALS> cradek: look around the net for some technical drawings of the injection pump
[23:58:33] <ALS> bbl