There's been a bunch of recent email on the list about restart in the middle of a program.
Has there been a feature request for (a decent way to do) this?
Does anyone want to put together a spec for it?
* archivist was just reading that, I have a need
In that case, would you care to volunteer to put together a feature request in SourceForge?
An alternative would be to generate something in the wiki so that "everyone" could comment/enhance it.
mine may be a mod on what others need as its a measure, cut, measure.... then continue
In the presence of o-words and looping, the problem is much more complicated than just selecting a line of code.
Questions: continue implies that we stopped. How did we stop? estop? pause? other?
Im currently having "fun" as I dont have exact sizes for cutters and so dont know depth of cut needed
After the stop, estop, pause, what can we do? Is MDI active? Jogging? Homing?
currently I stop check, jog x thou, set new offset, and rerun till close, do full cycle, measure, jog, reset offset, run one last time to size
gear milliing by the way for clock gears
I cant decide yet the best way forward, currently experimenting with a camera on the machine to help
lerman, even the simple scenario you mentioned has multiple use cases
what about tool compensation?
Tool length AND diameter.
there are a couple of ways of dealing with that (edit tool table, be sure the new comp is read in)
the other way is use G43.1 and G41 R-- to specify the new numbers, and *don't* read the table ...
yes, both - even better :)
also, spindle speed and possibly feedrate may need to be changed (though that's a bigger issue, and can probably be avoided using FO and SO)
I think part of the solution will involve the ability to do things when "stopped". Jog and MDI come to mind.
yes, which currently can't be done
unless you stop, vs. pause
Within MDI, the ability to call an existing subroutine would be a big help.
All of that should be "fixed".
I guess most scenarios can be handled if there are two types of restart: one that restores state and one that doesn't
of course, all that state stuff would have to be left alone on a transition to run mode from MDI/manual mode
stop, pause, estop, should all do similar things. Don't throw away the state. The type of restart will determine what is thrown away.
did you ever add the feature that looks for subroutines "somewhere"
I forget precisely where.
spindle is part of the state, and that should certainly be stopped on estop, and probably some others as well
maybe you should have a routine that looks for it
In the long run, a list of places should be supplied in the .ini file
nc_files_dir/subroutines would be a good place ;)
On my list of things to do is allow user defined gcodes. That will also need to have a place to look for them.
The thought of someone modifying the code to add a favorite canned cycle drives me crazy.
echo Tuscon\nEl Paso\nNew York City\n > subroutines.ini
Canned cycles can all be built from existing gcodes.
The "integrator" should specify that stuff in the .ini
echo "New York, London, Paris, Munich" > Pop_Music
I saw a thread somewhere about machine tools playing music.
JymmmEMC, that would be an "M" code ;)
My first thought was that someone was moving the servos in such a way to play a tune.
yes, a 4-axis EMC2/stepper machine can play "daisy"
as to play a tune.
SWPadnos: I much prefer CAM tyvm
there are subroutines to output notes on steppers
[01:05:55] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_Muzik
I guess I had mis-spelled "muzik" :)
[01:19:00] <skunkworks> http://youtube.com/watch?v=R26yo7P9mwA
Does anyone here know who added the "repeat" type o-word to the interpreter?
cradek, I believe
does this sound right?
[01:35:56] <skunkworks> http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=420662#post420662
skunkworks, yes, that looks right, but there could be a confusion (as always) between lines and cycles per revolution
astually, your formulas explicitly mention the x4 factor, so maybe the only confusion is mine :)
I'm not sure you needa full "x2" factor in there, but it probably doesn't hurt to tell pwople you do :)
better to type when there isn't a plate of food between you and the keyboard
heh - I Know - I was counting close to the base period - but I got the impression I was playing with fire :)
yeah. the calculation is probably based on BASE_PERIOD + max_latency
That is why I said - to be safe..
but 2x should guarantee that it works, so it's not a bad thing
and who is going to thread at 1500 rpm... ;)
people making 0000-128 threads?
or -256 or something
but cradek would know a lot more than me about that kind of thing :)
jmkasunich: could you post the program you used to make your fusee?
lerman: repeat is definitely my fault
skunkworks: that's a nice video of daisy. I'm glad people like it.
cradek: I would love to hear what it is like with all 4 axis running
It sounds cool as is
skunkworks: oh was that only 3? it sounded quite decent
I assumed.. I could be wrong..
* cradek hides from lerman
repeat 10 Ohide_cradek_from_lerman
(I bet he found a case where it doesn't work right)
Why the negativity? Maybe he was going to praise you.. :)
oh right :-)
well, either that or he wanted to thank you for a very useful feature, and commend your coding style
and then drop all the interpreter stuff in your lap, because he's moving to Bermuda
then I would declare it complete
actually it seems like I'm the one who screws with it the most lately
for better or worse
darn, from what you guys were saying earlier I was hoping to see a new jmk blog entry
hmmm. no phone calls from my HAL customer today. either things worked well or he's still busy installing
I think jmk said he'd try to make a video this weekend
I think he's still on the road
I can't wait
I love emc.. http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=420683#post420683
I think I don't understand the a axis, or I've found an insect
could be both, gene
g1 f45 a-360 turns the table one rev in about 8 minutes, while the bit is plowing a groove to make a 4" diameter plate
sounds right so far
I'm going down .025 per rev, so I thought I'd just have it turn the table about 18 times while z went down to -.5"
something like g1 f45 a-5900 z-.5
and the table took of at aqbout 2 rpm!
and the table took off at about 2 rpm!
that's because the meaning of F changes when you move linear + rotary. it's described very carefully in the manual.
combined moves always use inverse time for the angualr axes
didn't wreck anything though :)
you should probably use inverse time feed mode
SWPadnos: that's not right
well maybe I don't know what you meant
well, it's an oversimplification
gee, you mean i have to read the book again? :-)
let me see if I can find you the url gene
the time to do the XYZ cartesian is used as the time for the angular part, which essentially runs in inverse time mode with that calculated time
[02:50:18] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sub:Feed-Rate
cradek: You did a good job, it seems. It took me a while to be sure the code wasn't mine. :-)
oh oh, I must have missed class that dat 70 yearsago...
good night all.
lerman: cool, glad you like it. I saved the count at the beginning so it wouldn't change if the evaluation changes during the repeat.
oh oh, I must have missed class that day 70 years ago... keyboard full of swarf :(
gene: I recommend inverse time mode (G93) for your combined move
for an 8 minute move, you'd program G93 F.125 G1 A... Z...
.125 being 1/8 of course
wekk, i copy pasted to do it all in individual moves. I'll go look that up, ahh thanks. what i really need is a coolant system and i could let-r-rip without too much smoke from a dull end mill :)
you could also just use g1 f0.0625 a-5900 z-.5
that would move 1/2 inch at 1/16 inch/minute, taking 8 minutes to complete the move
if Z is moving slowly compared to A, the feeds get more and more silly if you don't use G93
that's certainly true :)
i figure it will be done about the time my feet are frozen solid, damn this diabetis
I think G93 is really the best way here, but it's true you can get by without
gene: it's too cold in March for unheated shops!
G93 F[1/8] G1 A... Z...
even less brainpower needed
its about half done now. cute steve
I've met steve; he's just average looking
there is a cute steve too, I'm sure
just not me
yes, surely somewhere
tell me about it. theres a 1500 watt utility thing running, but near zero insulation
gene: those work if you're really close!
aren't yo uin Georgia or something?
north central wv, 29f outside
oh, WV. that's a bit different
do you have a moon suit (the full body insulated thing construction workers wear?) I love mine for outside work on cold days
weird. about the same temp here
I had moon boots once
I have those too :-)
I can moon walk sometimes
they won't let diabetics even buy those things, i checked already. BIG warning signs on them..
yeah that's a bad idea if you have any lack of feeling
makes sense - you lose a bit of sensation, right? (so you can't tell if they're overheating)
probably not, altho i keep a small pad on low at the foot of the bed anyway :)
me too :)
whereare you steve
heh, I have a waterbed (goes with my moon boots I guess)
[03:01:54] <SWPadnos> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=05452
used to have that - keeps you nice and warm
ahh, but you can get colder than we do i think
yeah it's great
most of the time, yes
record colds a week ago (somewhat luckily I was in Winconsin at the time)
worst i ever saw it was in rapid city one morning back in the mid-60's, -39F on a thermometer nailed to a jack pine in the front yard.
lucky to be in wi - odd
yeah. in this part of the state, we rarely get below -20 or so
I haven't even seen that in a few years
skunkworks, yeah, when you were in Cozumel (unless you're there now), I was in Wisconsin
heck, they call school if its below +20 around here cuz they can't heat them.
last week was cozumel
ok. last week was Mishicot for me
and you didn't invite me?
I wish it had been Cosumel
It was nice. :)
were they still doing construction on the cruise ship pier?
course i coulda been in iron mountain mi just as easy
figured. it didn't look like a small project
Iron Mountain - that's close to Ray
heck it is, which way?
We stayed in iron moutain when we took a trip to maine. via canada
Crystal Falls is ~1 hour or something from Iron Mountain
we drove through IM going from Minneapolis to Ray's place
less than, about 20 miles i think
probably. couldn't remember for sure so I hedged :)
been there a couple of times
I wonder if Ray knew Wally, who got cooked at the foundry about 2 years ago this coming summer, got across a 460 volt dc line due to faulty equipment
Wally was fron Crystall Falls
then it seems likely that they would have known of each other
it's not a big town, so I'd assume that people who work with machinery are a very small group there
I doubt if he ever felt it, the control pendant for the crane swung and hit him in the head, and it was hot
yeah, Wally was 'good people'. his missus went completely off & the kids had to commit her. early alzheimers too from what wally had said. Sad
whats in store for 2.2.4?
make my slipping on ice an having a piece of 3'X4' cement board fall on my face seem trivial. Yes it just happened tonight.
nose is a little bloody.. few bruises..
bump on the head.. I am sure other things will ache tomorros
it's true though - hearing about death makes non-death-causeing things seem less severe :)
i used to call that road rash, you get it from throwing motorcycles away
while using them :)
yes of course, last time i had to add a broken rib to the list but i did miss the deer
we keep saying that
my gs1000g needed an alternator cover though...
I propose we change the subject ;)
somehow thats supposed to make it better i think :) probaby, back to 2.2.4 maybe?
dunno. next subject? :)
next time i'm in iron, i'll see if i can find ray
send him an email - you never know if he'll be around :)
i think i'm headed that way come warmer weather, some sort of a satellite problem
i still haven't figured out how i managed to inherit the maintenance on a tv station 1000 miles away, but it pays well
don't drink out of the glasses at hotel rooms http://www.divinecaroline.com/article/22250/39039?CMP=DC_0001_TAG
plastic cups at the mountain host where i stay. been there so many times now i get christmas cards from Cindy, the manager
i just hit the p key and shut the rest down, my feet are about gone & there's a mich ultra in the fridge with my name on it, g-nite guys
wow... those #perl guys can be harsh!
its like having a room full of crabby fenn's :-P
gosh, just having a room full of fenns sounds scary enough
woah... just cleared the room with that one.
alright then... you all have a good one.
fenn ... u awake??
no one is admitting anything
anyone here built apt??
that's right ... never admit anything
"I have no recollection of that event at this time"
"that I can recall"
"in the last 10 years"
I have too much credibility to even bother denying
ah... you've been listening to the politicians
(to paraphrase the president, regarding questions about drug use :) )
or alcohol or something
yep ... or something
I've not retested ... but I broke a cutter on restart yesterday.
I normally restart on a G53G0Z0M5 ... before a tool change
the next line moves to tool change position
what borke the cutter? spindle not turning, movement into the wrokpiece, crashing into a vise ...?
however on restart it failed to pull the tool and just moved horizontally .. bumer
yeah ... darned.
usuallly I'm more careful and do a mdi g53g0z0m5 ... but I got careless
wouldn't tool change position be "above" the work/vise?
ah yes but I did it in two moves .... z up and then horizontally
hmmm. where is Z0 in all this?
right - is that the top excursion of Z on this machine?
home pos for z ... 5" or so above vise
The g53 is a non modal G54
right (I remembered that much, this time :) )
no, G53 is 'no offset' (machine coords)
does it also ignore tool offsets and G9x?
dave_1: if your program left you in G91, I think your Z0 will not move up
nice way to say ... stay in G5x and still go someplate temporarily
true but you do get an error message.
oh? is g53 g91 not allowed?
I almost never use g91
yeah same here.
now off to another question ...
I'm trying to build apt ...
downloaded the libf2c but don't know where to put it so ./configure will find it
sudo apt-get install libf2c2-dev
oh ... do it the easy way
always always check for packages first
it's easy to get a mess otherwise
apt appears to do some interesting things
but may still be a pain to use
yeah, I didn't spend enough time to learn to use it
going to go play ..
good morning all
what problem cause net s32 and u32 hal pins ?
you can't connect s32 pins to u32 pins
unless you use a converter
you right my bad
You can't have more than 1 index pulse per rev - correct? wouldn't you have issues with the threading starting at 1/2 spindle rotation off?
but you could have one ever 2 revs or something.. Seems I remember a discussion about this on the list
skunkworks: why would you want that?
regards to this post http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=420828#post420828
* archivist asks the question, does threading have start angle, so two/four start worms can be turned
last one. I don't think you would want to gear up the encoder unless the indes was separate and geared the same as the spindle (one per rev then)
you can just move Z each time...
ah goody, I have a couple of worm jobs coming up /me needs a lathe to mod quickly
well 1 worm and two worm wheels
archivist: er, i might be wrong. in any case you can start the thread at pitch/2 away
yes there is that option
I may mill or hob, dunno yet
sometimes there isn't that option, but i bet it's rare
hobbing worm wheels is fun getting the angle correct
* skunkworks doesn't want to think that hard
evil differential feed on the hobbing machine
other method "fiddle gear train till looks right"
gearing up an encoder just seems like a dumb idea
yup adds gearing error to system
you can get a 8000 line encoder for like $50
the only excuse is if you can't get a big enough encoder for your spindle
Morning guys, just wondering what are the advantages of a mesa 5i20 & emc vs lets say flashcut or camsoft? currently running mach3
hm. 8000 counts/rev not lines/rev
Guest572: if you want to go with the herd, then mach3 is great
using mach 3 now slaved gantry but lost steps cause chatter sometimes
also the 3d is really jerky
from what i understand the 5i20 is a motion controller, so emc offloads the motors to the card right?
5i20 is an FPGA which means it can do simple electronic tasks very quickly
so for instance counting encoders or doing PWM
ok so tere is no advantage from a 5i20 / parall port as far as steps
the PID loop is done in emc (technically it's in HAL)
i'm running a stepper system
parallel port will get you maximum 50kHz and that would be herky-jerky due to aliasing
in general, if you want to go higher than say 10,000 steps/sec you should use hardware step generation
* fenn looks at flashcut and camsoft
Guest572: do you know the difference between a step servo and a true servo?
does the 5i20 do step generation?
i'm using steppers,
servo's are dc/ac motors using an encoder for position feedback
steppers are perm magnet motors by turning on/off coils you can controll the rpm
step-servos are when you control a servo motor using step/dir signalling
true servo is when you control the current (torque) to the motor
so when something says "supports steppers and servo" and then they show their step/dir interface, i call bullshit
supports servo's in a stepping fashion
the control doesnt know what's on the other end
my main thing would be external stepgen to offload the cpu and make sure all the steps get processed
if you dont use step/dir signalling then the cpu has much less to worry about
you can do essentially infinite speed/resolution (as far as CNC machines go)
your step loss may not be cpu, could be running too fast or friction in the machine etc
but as i am allready setup using steppers need to go with that
also there are two ways to do 'external step generation' - a PLL and something that essentially acts like a true servo interface
anyway, it sounds like you need to figure out what is causing your lost steps
i think i came accross a board that makes the pc see the steppers as sevo's, had an onboard counter
once you know what's going on, you can decide where to throw money
dont forget to figure in cutting load to your max speed
yep learn a bit about stepper motor physics
perhaps what i am going to do is bridge my gantry motors instead of slaving and see what happens, i have a very wide gantry
torque drops off with speed rapidly
cutting speed is only 167ipm
Guest572: simple enough to detect if the motors are slaved properly, just put a little flag on each leadscrew. if the flags are pointing in the same direction it should be fine
what step rate is that, whats the spec of the motors at that rate
rach and pinion :)
stepp rate @6200
that's a pretty high step rate (17kHz for the peanut gallery)
yeah cause of R&P and gearing
likely low torqu at that speed , try slower
a lot of motors max at about 3khz
it gets confusing with microstepping, so you should really talk about rpm
like, torque falls off at 1000-1500 rpm
running 1290 oz/in Stepper Motor Model # RS34-1290 from homeshopcnc
no specs :(
broke a 3/8 endmill on a clamp though so torque is pretty high
"welcome to homeshopcnc.com, we drop ship to your door without ever seeing the product"
oh wait maybe they do ship their own inventory
there are specs on this page but i dont know if its possible to convert that to a torque curve http://www.homeshopcnc.com/page5.html
thanks for the info fenn, gotta run to work
skunkworks: since i know you love remodeling pictures: http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0797.JPG
... to 799
the walls ceiling and floor used to be the color of that purple door
and half a dozen holes
Nice job. I hate plastering.
its much easier with a power sander
fen with a beard.. I don't know if I could get used to that.
me have a beard? where?
i prefer to cultivate a fine layer of stubble. if you call that a beard, well..
hmm my beard is 35+years old
This isn't you? http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/?Qwd=.&Qif=DCP_0131.JPG&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=M
It has been a while since I have seen you..
eh ok that's a beard, probably before you met me
heh bum fluff get a beard
[14:27:48] <skunkworks> http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/?Qwd=.&Qif=DCP_0494.JPG&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=M
camping and electronics?
those don't mix very well ;)
i decided that being in the middle of untouched forest would be a great place to do gravity wave research
hundreds of miles from any electrical lines
the results were.. inconclusive
don't you need mirrors and lasers? ;)
cd burner writer laser. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53398
were you here when the guy was talking about melting solder with a diode laser?
he was making fpga cards for servers or something
no - neat
it had a heatsink at least (the diode)
fenn: that computer does not sound like a good real time machine..
1ms when moving windows around? come on now :)
couldn't you effectivly take the backlash out of a hexipod by loading the pairs against each other?
skunkworks: that's why i said "with x disabled..."
and no, it doesn't work. you get rotation in the C axis
but that's a good thing because it means the mechanism can't bind
fenn, the 44-pin IDE connector is for a standard laptop drive
(in case you hadn't found that out already)
the extra pins provide power
yah i know, but the cable is hard to find
I think I have one I could send you..
or maybe i looked in all the wrong places
there are adapters as well - pretty easy to find when I last looked a couple of years ago
i built one from scratch, and now i've got parts to make more if i need to
cables I can imagine being hard
We had a embedded computer that took a dump.
I want to ask this guy why not emc http://www.foxkid.net/cmm/platform/project-notebook.html
he probably didnt know about it
Your search - site:foxkid.net emc - did not match any documents.
those pages were done in 2000. EMC wasn't anywhere near as well-known at the time
back around 2000 google wasn't as well known either
there was stuff like altavista, webcrawler
hotbot, now with more annoying colors.
machining an end mill shank with a ceramic tool on a sherline: http://sherline.com/images/CutWithCeramic.mpg
I remember using altavista. Didn't they have free internet for a while also?
I wonder how ceramic tools like interupted cuts... Would be a nice way to machine ball screw ends
just grind it off by hand first
sure, now there are hundreds of 44 pin ide cables on ebay
44 -> 40, or 44-pin?
44 to 44
there are lots of adapters
ah. I thought that was what you had looked for - an adapter to use a full-size drive with the 44-pin motherboard connector
fenn: how did this work out? that is one heck of a casting. http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/qdig-files/converted-images/med_DCP_0265.JPG
pete is answering mesa questions on cnczone. cool
[18:37:32] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53966
that q is much like a visitor we had a couple of hours ago
skunkworks: you can see in the pic that it didn't fill all the way, i dont remember what went wrong exactly. anyway it worked the next time
what was it for?
tailstock for my gingery lathe
i wanted a lever-actuated tailstock for drilling, and also a leadscrew actuated tailstock for centering and accurate drilling, so i came up with a linkage that allowed that
and the t-slot top is just because i was fed up with not having suitable surfaces to bolt stuff to
cnc tailstock next?
fenn: How is the cnc'ing of it coming?
delayed by yak shaving
shaving ... nevar!
fenn: is the commercial lathe yours also?
i bought the atlas 10" from roland
did it come with the milling attachement?
yes it came with every attachment i know of
oh, no toolpost grinding attachment
darn ;) I hate grinding on a nice lathe.
no matter how well you protect things
yeah i will save that for the gingery which is expendable :P
not like i find myself needing to grind things
so... When is your mill purchase happening?
I give it a year ;)
hexapod or bust
oh - ok. That will be fine.
i'll put a Z slide on the gingery, dont worry
this week i finally put a chip tray under the atlas
can't rush into these things..
heh dont buy a mill, make it
it's really not that hard if you know what you're doing
my home made is cutting a pinion right now
heh cncmarinesupply is "chris and carol"
here is just two of us
gear cut /me escapes to play
* skunkworks really would like a hexapod...
You could make it so it would dissasemble into a suitcase..
all pipes and connectors
sure - rain on my parade
one thing that's annoying me is how to make bulletproof windows that dont take up too much space
so far the best solution is a nylon webbing with plastic
around the pod?
yeah flexible triangular panels
they could split in half so you could rearrange them as a square instead of triangles
or you could just fold them i guess
the longest dimension would be the same as the frame member
only problem is, what do you do with the suitcase? :)
it is the table..
t-slotted suitcase ;)
a 6 sided suitcase would be cool
another possibility is to ship it in a cylinder or hexagonal prism
then you just roll stuff up instead of trying to make a neat tidy square out of it
i think a hexagonal table would work well, and the moving platform too
* fenn pictures a folded up hexapod wrapped in heavy vinyl windows and lashed with bungee cords
maybe a little overkill on the portability aspect
but if it used an additive method like FDM then you wouldn't need big blocky raw materials
* alex_joni just had another cookie
sorry - ie crashed
why would you be sorry?
because he uses ie?
he should be glad, it still works after a crash
not that uncommon for ie to stop working at all :D
yeah that happened, i installed firefox, now six months later the computer's totally hosed
not my problem
i really dont understand how people can actually use windows
bad habits die hard
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-03-06.txt
more of an addiction...
I have two of them at the moment (for this nick)
err - oops
ummm - yah.
heh regedit yum