#emc | Logs for 2008-03-02

[00:07:33] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> [1]a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[02:33:54] <eric_U> did someone break the intenet again?
[02:34:30] <toastydeath> WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE
[02:34:50] <eric_U> did they let the genie out of the bottle again?
[02:35:34] <toastydeath> perhaps.
[02:36:28] <eric_U> Craig Venter says his new technology is going to solve our energy problems forever
[02:36:43] <eric_U> or turn the earth into a methane planet, he's not sure which
[02:46:00] <fenn> eric_U, got a link?
[02:46:44] <fenn> forever is a long time
[02:46:59] <eric_U> where did I see that?
[02:49:31] <eric_U> http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iYXm1UNEI-ViI-p5S6TAaogyDv8Q
[02:58:00] <fenn> seems to be more about venter than about what he's doing (which isnt very unique)
[02:59:19] <eric_U> it's always about Venter, he's nothing if not a self-promoter
[03:00:16] <fenn> he did some decent work on shotgun sequencing
[03:02:38] <fenn> but yeah, more of a celebrity than a scientist
[03:02:48] <eric_U> I read the book about him, it was fascinating
[03:04:41] <eric_U> I thought the best part was where he said he could produce a methane planet
[03:05:04] <fenn> well, fortunately, no
[03:05:24] <fenn> there's a reason we have an oxygen atmosphere
[03:05:32] <eric_U> we're going to put a suicide gene in there, what could go wrong?
[03:06:26] <fenn> honestly i think the gray goo or green goo scenarios are over hyped
[03:06:56] <fenn> the stuff that's alive now is alive because it's the toughest, meanest thing that came along in the last 6 billion years
[03:07:06] <eric_U> I know I am
[03:07:10] <fenn> rawr
[03:07:39] <eric_U> don't mess with me, I'm the toughest, meanest thing that came along in the last 6 billion years
[03:07:47] <fenn> you dont see cornfields displacing praries, is what i mean
[03:07:57] <fenn> er, not without help
[03:07:57] <eric_U> true
[03:08:27] <eric_U> although the prairie reclamation projects usually require help
[03:09:23] <tomp> how can i examine # variables while emc runs? like loop iters , counters, products
[03:09:33] <jmkasunich> I don't think you can
[03:09:41] <jmkasunich> thats a capability I've wished for
[03:09:42] <tomp> urf
[03:09:54] <cradek> (print,#123)
[03:09:57] <cradek> (debug,#123)
[03:09:57] <eric_U> I haven't ever found anything either
[03:10:00] <fenn> (PRINT, #<asdf>) or (DEBUG,#)
[03:10:06] <eric_U> I would pay big money for that
[03:10:24] <jmkasunich> the problem with those is that they print at interp time, which can be many lines ahead of the move that is currently executing
[03:10:31] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sub:Debugging-messages
[03:10:32] <jmkasunich> but yes, they can help a lot
[03:11:35] <fenn> wow, ask an emc-related question and they come out of the woodwork ;)
[03:11:44] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:12:08] <Twingy> new version of GCAM available
[03:12:13] <eric_U> where were people getting quad cores for $200?
[03:12:39] <jepler> hm the docs say this -- I wonder if it's a limitation that's actually present: A line may have zero to four M words. Two M words from the same modal group may not appear on the same line.
[03:13:11] <SWPadnos> are there more than 4 M-code modal groups?
[03:14:20] <jepler> it's hard to count
[03:15:13] <jepler> it might make sense to program: M6 M3 M7 M8 M49 M52 P1
[03:15:52] <jepler> (change tool, turn spindle, coolant mist+flood, enable feed override, enable adaptive feed)
[03:16:37] <toastydeath> swpadnos: it depends on the machine, sometimes yes.
[03:16:57] <toastydeath> "extra features" add modal groups.
[03:17:06] <SWPadnos> ok, just wondering if that limit made any sense, and the number of modal M-code groups was the first thing that popped into mind
[03:18:15] <jepler> oh yes, you might throw an M101 in there as well
[03:18:29] <SWPadnos> and an M102, M103, M104 ...
[03:18:57] <SWPadnos> mist and flood are in the same group though, IIRC
[03:19:10] <SWPadnos> seems silly, but I think I read that relatively recently
[03:20:08] <jepler> yes but the documentation notes that they may both be enabled at once
[03:20:46] <SWPadnos> ah, so theoretically you can't turn them on on the same line, but they can be on at the same time
[03:23:12] <jepler> I don't know for sure
[03:23:38] <jepler> I *do* know for sure that the gcode documentation was mostly a cut&paste job of the old public domain nist documentation though
[03:24:16] <eric_U> cut n' paste, it's not plagiarism, it's a way of life
[03:26:16] <eric_U> looks like microcenter is the place for $200 quad cores
[03:26:50] <eric_U> too bad the closest one is 3 hours from me, and it's in store only
[03:30:19] <jmkasunich> microcenter usually follows pricing on the interweb - so someplace like newegg should be about as cheap as they are
[03:32:10] <eric_U> newegg $50 more, cheaper than a 6 hour round trip
[03:35:57] <tomp> if #vars are evaluated ahead of execution , then messages based on #var values , will be out of sync, eg (MSG, level too low fill hopper!). hmm, gotta look at how tool chg msg popup is sync'd!
[03:36:29] <SWPadnos> it's a dialog box with a HAL pin
[03:36:54] <tomp> aha! thx!
[03:37:02] <SWPadnos> or two - the "OK" button also causes an output to go true (telling motion that the toolchange has occurred)
[03:37:08] <SWPadnos> sure
[03:37:27] <tomp> yep, mongo chg tool ok to go on now
[03:37:30] <SWPadnos> if pyvcp can control visibility, then it could do something like that as well
[03:42:42] <jmkasunich> certain things sync up motion and messages
[03:43:55] <jmkasunich> unqueueable stuff - for example I've done M5 ; (MSG, Insert 1/4" endmill); M0 and had the message appear at the right time
[03:44:56] <jmkasunich> but if you just stick the MSG between one batch of 50 G1's and another batch of 50 G1, it will probably appear before the first move of the first batch
[03:50:28] <toastydeath> does anyone know anything about concrete floors and the sizing thereof
[03:50:44] <jmkasunich> you mean how thick?
[03:50:50] <tomp> (tomp studies unqueable... kinda got it, exchg pallet, stop spindle...)
[03:50:52] <toastydeath> yep
[03:51:03] <toastydeath> well not only thickness but area around the tool
[03:51:06] <toastydeath> minimum, etc
[03:51:15] <jmkasunich> around the tool?
[03:51:27] <jmkasunich> you looking for the pad to place a machine on?
[03:51:28] <toastydeath> like if you buy a large machine tool, it needs a properly sized bed to sit on
[03:51:44] <jmkasunich> that would generally apply to "large" machines
[03:51:54] <tomp> ask machine tool builder? i've had to suggest separating the new concrete form old to isolate presses from machines
[03:51:56] <jmkasunich> significantly bigger than a BP or even a moderate VMC
[03:51:58] <toastydeath> i was wondering if anyone knew a general guideline
[03:52:31] <jmkasunich> for machines like Bports, a typical factory floor is fine, you don't need any special pads
[03:52:39] <toastydeath> i am talking about large tools
[03:52:41] <jmkasunich> even most VMCs probably don't need anything special
[03:53:15] <toastydeath> like the planers at work have to sit on large steel beds, and apparently that spreads the force out enough
[03:53:22] <jmkasunich> truly large tools will by their very nature have _specific_ requirements for that tool - there isn't a general guideline
[03:53:24] <toastydeath> to sit on the existing floor
[03:53:52] <toastydeath> see that's not the impression i got from listening to other people discuss the subject
[03:54:19] <toastydeath> based on the weight of the machine and it's footprint (plus soil composition) you could at least ballpark the pad it needs to sit on
[03:54:24] <tomp> http://books.google.com/books?id=9jCre3nTpeYC&pg=PA643&lpg=PA643&dq=concrete+thickness+machine+tool&source=web&ots=UzHJsW7UyT&sig=cGGE6aku0k2QqS67D7kZAS5mjn0&hl=en an actual formula for concrete size & thx
[03:54:38] <toastydeath> hey cool
[03:54:40] <toastydeath> ty
[03:54:41] <tomp> inet is wicked cool
[03:55:44] <toastydeath> i did some googling but didn't find that
[03:55:46] <toastydeath> ty tomp
[03:58:24] <tomp> np, lucky hit
[04:00:11] <toastydeath> just as an excercise i'm trying to find the cost of the concrete pad for various forging hammers
[04:01:24] <toastydeath> oh those are a lot bigger than they look apparently
[04:04:25] <toastydeath> a lot, lot bigger
[04:05:46] <eric_U> the forging hammers I have seen are quite large, 20'
[04:06:35] <toastydeath> yeah but did you know most of the mass is underground?
[04:06:40] <toastydeath> i didn't until like, two minutes ago
[04:06:47] <eric_U> no, I didn't
[04:06:53] <eric_U> guess it makes sense though
[04:07:06] <toastydeath> the anvil goes like 15' underground and is essentially solid steel
[04:07:16] <toastydeath> bigger than the base of the hammer
[04:07:43] <toastydeath> even the small, utility hammers take a big base
[04:07:44] <toastydeath> that's crazy.
[04:07:48] <eric_U> I guess that came out of long hard experience
[04:08:12] <eric_U> broke the forging hammer again, darn it
[04:08:29] <toastydeath> hahah
[04:08:34] <toastydeath> well apparently what happens is they tilt
[04:08:39] <toastydeath> like the tower of piza
[04:08:46] <toastydeath> that would be crazy
[04:09:03] <toastydeath> but the foundation for the big hammers might not be so great because the foundation essentially comes with the hammer
[04:09:13] <toastydeath> just have to dig the pit
[04:09:43] <toastydeath> "just"
[04:11:16] <fenn> just make your machine tool out of concrete ferchrissake
[04:11:58] <fenn> this "bolt it to the ground because its not rigid enough" stuff makes me sick
[04:12:03] <tomp> screw hammer dies at greenville for ge aero were 2 stories tall ( and 3 stores deep ), both halves were driven
[04:14:28] <toastydeath> that's a big die
[04:14:38] <toastydeath> that's the machine, right
[04:14:40] <toastydeath> not the die
[04:14:50] <tomp> right, theres some big ass machines out there
[04:18:08] <toastydeath> it's probably fastest to just email and ask somebody at a forge what it costs to have a hammer installed
[04:18:16] <toastydeath> TWENTY BILLION DOLLARS EACH
[04:20:51] <fenn> i bet the anvil is the most expensive part
[04:21:24] <toastydeath> well that comes with the machine
[04:21:47] <toastydeath> columns, hammer, and anvil are all included
[04:22:13] <toastydeath> so really the only "external costing" questions are moving the damn thing and putting it somewhere afterwards
[04:23:20] <fenn> but you have to buy the machine
[04:23:38] <toastydeath> big machines are, comparatively, cheap
[04:23:54] <fenn> eh, if you get it used maybe
[04:24:02] <toastydeath> shops close and nobody wants to buy 20 forging hammers, so the market for big tools is very small
[04:24:29] <tomp> and theres no warehouses of them, they are where they were
[04:24:29] <fenn> an artifact of our industrial base moving to china
[04:24:55] <tomp> its spooky walking into big old factories
[04:25:12] <toastydeath> i'd love to live in an old factory.
[04:25:26] <toastydeath> or warehouse. plenty o' space for machines.
[04:25:51] <tomp> too romantic, they're filthy dusty greasy dirty... and not nice
[04:26:08] <toastydeath> well i figure one can put up walls and living space
[04:26:11] <toastydeath> inside the place, like offices.
[04:26:25] <toastydeath> you could have a really nice house/apartment thing inside a warehouse.
[04:27:03] <tomp> i agree with the idea, i just been in a lot of em and got a bad taste
[04:27:15] <toastydeath> ah
[04:27:33] <tomp> as a matter of fact, not much nicer floors than pounded wood blocks
[04:28:32] <tomp> 4x4's grain end up, worn smooth by millions of dollies and steel toed shoes
[04:28:42] <toastydeath> oh, i meant actually building inside
[04:28:50] <toastydeath> so like, installing a floor/walls/roof
[04:28:58] <toastydeath> not using whatever was there
[04:29:48] <tomp> where you at?
[04:29:56] <eric_U> usually, they have offices that could be converted to living space
[04:30:02] <toastydeath> dealware
[04:30:04] <toastydeath> er
[04:30:06] <toastydeath> delaware
[04:30:09] <toastydeath> DEALAWARE I WISH
[04:30:40] <tomp> hmm, downtown louisvile, is a badlands of old factories waiting to be rejuvenated
[04:30:52] <tomp> same with old detroit
[04:31:02] <jmkasunich> and old cleveland
[04:31:05] <toastydeath> yeah, that's very appealing
[04:31:09] <tomp> right
[04:31:20] <toastydeath> but i think i can find something closer to here
[04:31:26] <toastydeath> plus i have to research the zoning
[04:31:37] <tomp> maybe bethsheba? seems i did some work there
[04:31:37] <toastydeath> girlfriend and i are nowhere near moving into a place so that's a long-term goal for now.
[04:31:40] <eric_U> living in commercial space is no problem usually
[04:31:55] <toastydeath> really?
[04:32:01] <toastydeath> i keep hearing conflicting stuff about it
[04:32:02] <eric_U> it's the other way around
[04:32:14] <eric_U> that's a prob
[04:32:19] <tomp> lead & asbestos...
[04:32:23] <toastydeath> hm
[04:32:37] <eric_U> that could be a problem anywhere though
[04:32:42] <tomp> sorry to stimey the dream, i'll go work on stuff
[04:32:45] <eric_U> tons of asbestos ceilings out there
[04:32:55] <eric_U> dream killer
[04:33:14] <toastydeath> yeah but there are also places without asbestos ceilings
[04:34:03] <toastydeath> so not a deal killer but like everything else, something to look out for.
[04:35:11] <eric_U> I meant in residential homes
[04:35:28] <toastydeath> oh
[04:35:41] <eric_U> not sure about factories, I guess a lot of them may have gotten sprayed in asbestos as retrofit
[04:36:25] <eric_U> I saw a really nice factory renovation a while back, they did the whole place
[04:36:34] <toastydeath> into a house, or into another factory
[04:36:43] <eric_U> it was all house
[04:36:53] <eric_U> I'd like to keep parts as industrial
[04:37:01] <toastydeath> my biggest concern is resale.
[04:37:08] <eric_U> difficult
[04:37:24] <toastydeath> because i'm probably not going to get much more out of it than the building itself costs
[04:37:29] <toastydeath> any additional building will be loss
[04:37:32] <toastydeath> (probably)
[04:37:37] <toastydeath> so again, have to look into it.
[04:47:03] <tomp> haha the toolchg popup has an expiration date, how long the initial popup stays visible, i might just make a 'watch' window
[04:47:27] <tomp> pops up on a trigger, then decays
[04:48:55] <eric_U> sometimes it doesn't pay to to surf on youtube
[04:49:29] <eric_U> warning, potential darwin award winner on tape: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWj_PQQ4zGs&feature=related
[04:58:04] <fenn> death by youtube
[04:58:19] <eric_U> that guy deserved jail time for sure though
[04:58:48] <eric_U> they were moving fast, hitting a kid with a car door is big time assult
[05:37:41] <tomp> can hal know about #variables? any examples?
[05:41:41] <fenn> please restate the question
[05:49:23] <tomp> can a pyvcp panel have a 'number' widget attached to a hal pin attached to emc variable #1?
[05:51:29] <fenn> yes but it'll take a bit of futzing around
[05:51:44] <fenn> you can use M66 and M65 to connect to hal pins
[05:52:02] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBQQS7oMW2A&feature=related
[05:52:08] <toastydeath> drop hammarrrr
[05:52:13] <toastydeath> makin' doughnuts
[05:52:15] <toastydeath> mmmmm doughnutttss
[05:52:21] <tomp> hmm, i was think of a 'watch' window for many # variables, say 1 thru 32
[05:52:28] <fenn> the variable will only update when you use m65/66 though
[05:53:25] <fenn> you could do an o-word routine to update all the vars, but i'm not sure about synchronization between the interpreter and non-realtime hal
[05:53:31] <tomp> i'd attach it to a trgr which was (#1!=old#1 or #2!=old#2 or... #32!=old#32) (aka somebody changed )
[05:53:37] <tomp> yes, my problem is sync
[05:53:48] <fenn> nah, polling is easier
[05:54:41] <tomp> doesnt handle sync, right now a simple loop variable #1, that control execution of a short program, is at it's limit beofre motion begins
[05:54:49] <fenn> hard to define 'something changed' on an analog signal with a bit of noise on it
[05:55:03] <tomp> not analog, integer counts
[05:55:13] <fenn> think big
[05:55:24] <fenn> today's hack is tomorrow's architecture :P
[05:56:14] <tomp> ok, begin with what we can do then expand ;) how do i get a single int displayed with the current value, not future value
[05:57:08] <fenn> put the m65 code after the realtime queue, not in the interp
[05:57:23] <tomp> outta my ken
[05:57:26] <fenn> * fenn glances at alex_joni with a knowing eye
[05:57:30] <tomp> dunno how
[05:58:05] <tomp> ok, got other fish to fly
[05:58:27] <tomp> haha midnite and i QUIT
[05:58:33] <tomp> thx bye
[05:58:34] <fenn> you're FIRED
[05:58:38] <tomp> :)
[05:59:16] <fenn> i wish cvsweb had a search function
[07:52:54] <fenn> obvious but still neat: http://www.vibextreme.com/content/hyanide-dirt-bike-snowmobile-four-wheeler-utmost-road-ride
[08:17:59] <kwajstabo2> I was reading the irc log file from yesterday and i saw that there is a lot of things missing. It seems something is wrong logger_emc or someone who does the logging.
[08:44:04] <alex_joni> fenn: M66 is the one you want
[08:44:25] <alex_joni> but it stops interpreting beyond that function, so any things like look-ahead won't work beyond that
[08:56:01] <fenn> alex_joni: dont you need both? one for read and one for write?
[12:57:10] <tomp> alex_joni: i had asked fenn if i could read the iterator for a loop, say #1.
[12:57:16] <tomp> the discussion showed read-ahead handed you a future value, not present value.
[12:57:23] <tomp> do you think hal can access #variables?
[12:57:24] <tomp> I'm imagining something like a watch window in most debuggers for #1 thru #32 for example.
[13:01:43] <tomp> tomp wonders if the iterator variable really has advanced and the action is just delayed... due to queueing... i 'spose thats whats going on.
[13:20:37] <tomp> task would have to report chgs to #vars as it executes items so the user could see sync'd values. just report not assign
[14:07:02] <BigJohnT> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knf3cPrZPrk
[14:11:40] <fenn> BigJohnT: hey so why dont you put a pencil on it and draw something pretty
[14:21:33] <BigJohnT> thats next
[14:28:52] <BigJohnT> fenn: but I don't have my Z axis built yet
[14:31:20] <BigJohnT> still trying decide on how to do the thrust bearings on Z leadscrew
[14:36:43] <fenn> dont need z to write cursive :) http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/cxf_hello.png
[14:37:06] <BigJohnT> cool
[14:38:35] <fenn> this one's set up for cursive already: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/cxf_splash.py
[14:40:33] <BigJohnT> thanks
[14:41:53] <fenn> btw i havent actually seen a physical result from that script - let me know if it actually works :9
[14:44:55] <BigJohnT> ok, I just did a test to a file but it will have to wait for after breakfast
[14:45:16] <BigJohnT> I did get an error report on the first line of the file
[14:45:35] <BigJohnT> (warning: discrepancy in number of commands /usr/share/qcad/fonts/normal.cxf, line 641, 7 != 10 )
[14:45:44] <fenn> oh, yeah that's normal :\
[14:45:49] <BigJohnT> ok
[14:51:40] <alex_joni> fenn: right, you need another M65 to write the command
[14:51:45] <alex_joni> M66 is only for reading
[14:52:12] <alex_joni> tomp: M66 will get the current value
[14:52:55] <alex_joni> it works like this: interp starts reading a new program, and sending commands to task which starts executing them (actually sending them to motion and io)
[14:53:12] <alex_joni> after a while interp will be quite far ahead than the current execution..
[14:53:33] <alex_joni> when interp finds an M66 it stops interpreting the program, and waits for the execution to reach M66
[14:53:50] <alex_joni> once it reached, the M66 command is sent to task, which sends it to motion, etc
[14:54:03] <alex_joni> and you'll get the "current" value of the HAL pin
[16:19:33] <BigJohnT> just a little bug in the stepconf wizard. If you only have limit switches on X and Y it makes HOME_SEQUENCE for AXIS_0 = 1 and for AXIS_1 = 2. Without the 0 as the first it will not home
[16:20:11] <BigJohnT> that might confuse a newbee a bit when it won't home
[16:44:27] <JymmmEMC> Just curious, is EMC222 still on ubuntu 6?
[16:47:02] <alex_joni> 6.06, yeah
[16:47:26] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/2/4/lang,en/+
[16:47:39] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Any chance of it getting to 7 anytime soon?
[16:49:16] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: I remember someting about RTAI issues, but forget the details
[16:49:57] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: I plan to make a new kernel for 8.04
[16:50:12] <alex_joni> but if that will work.. we'll have to wait and see
[16:51:02] <JymmmEMC> OH MY GAWD.... ubuntu.com == ununtu + dell Eeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[16:51:53] <JymmmEMC> Sorry, my dispise of dell is showing =)
[16:52:56] <JymmmEMC> http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
[16:54:14] <fenn> JymmmEMC: dell is cheap, and that's quite a virtue when you have no other option
[16:55:41] <JymmmEMC> fenn: Ok, a major mfg supplying nix is cool, but dell has left a bad taste in my mouth over the years. I wish it was someone like IBM instead is all.
[16:55:58] <JymmmEMC> And I wonder what support you get if you have to call dell =)
[16:55:59] <fenn> hah why IBM?
[16:56:33] <fenn> * fenn is so clueless he cant think of a high quality computer manufacturer
[16:56:34] <JymmmEMC> I've had good luck with thinkpads, many don't but most dont understand TP's either.
[16:56:56] <fenn> does SGI still make good stuff? :)
[16:57:23] <JymmmEMC> fenn: I think SGI is no longer (RIP)
[16:57:35] <fenn> i know, in all but name
[16:58:28] <JymmmEMC> fenn: SGI stopped making/selling their boxes with alternative OS'es early 00 iirc
[16:58:35] <JymmmEMC> maybe even late 90's
[16:58:45] <JymmmEMC> Last OS I remember was NT4
[16:58:52] <fenn> well, the whole point of digital electronics is that the quality doesn't matter since it's already perfect
[16:59:09] <JymmmEMC> perfect, LOL
[16:59:37] <fenn> so, it's basically a matter of configuration and (searching for words here..)
[16:59:54] <fenn> functional design elements
[16:59:58] <JymmmEMC> By SGI I'm assuming you mean Silicon Graphics?
[17:00:02] <fenn> yes
[17:00:04] <JymmmEMC> k
[17:01:03] <fenn> we reached commodity computing ten years ago and your average joe still hasn't realized it
[17:01:19] <fenn> but that hasnt stopped google etc. from filling semi trailers full of motherboards and hard disks
[17:02:07] <JymmmEMC> heh
[17:02:33] <fenn> JymmmEMC: what do you think, does google use high performance scsi disks, or the bottom of the line crap?
[17:05:14] <niemand> niemand is now known as terrylr
[17:05:30] <JymmmEMC> SATA is more man stream these days
[17:05:43] <SWPadnos> this is my man stream!
[17:05:49] <fenn> cat /dev/man
[17:07:16] <terrylr> has ray been around lately?
[17:07:43] <alex_joni> hi tomp
[17:07:44] <SWPadnos> not much, but then again I haven
[17:07:47] <alex_joni> argh
[17:07:49] <alex_joni> hi terrylr
[17:07:51] <SWPadnos> haven't been around to see him
[17:08:05] <alex_joni> terrylr: ray has just finished installing his high-speed internet connection
[17:08:10] <SWPadnos> cool
[17:08:26] <alex_joni> so he'll be around in the future..
[17:11:53] <alex_joni> terrylr: I can pass you ray's email addy if you'd like
[17:12:27] <JymmmEMC> hey SWPadnos
[17:12:34] <SWPadnos> hiya JymmmEMC
[17:15:44] <terrylr> alex_joni, last 6 aug 2007, i was in a head-on-collision accident. not my fault. i spent 2 wks in icu and 6 wks in rehabilation. since then trying to learn how to walk again. my injuries were: left hip broken, left femur broken in 5 places, right knee cap shattered, right tibia and fibia compound fracture, 4 broken ribs right side, right lung collapsed. the emts had to reboot me several times before they could get me stable enough to remov
[17:15:44] <terrylr> e from the accident scene. haivng two broken legs is not fun.
[17:16:59] <terrylr> alex_joni, i do not get down to the computers that often anymore. i get around in a wheelchair so i tend to stick to the main floor of the house.
[17:17:46] <SWPadnos> ouch
[17:17:51] <JymmmEMC> yeow
[17:18:49] <terrylr> alex_joni, the left hip given my age may take up to two years to heal. that is why i am living on morphine.
[17:20:32] <alex_joni> terrylr: ouch
[17:21:04] <terrylr> alex_joni, the current cost of that head-on-collision has been $550,000.00 usd. the individual that is liable for the accident is judgement proof. he would just declare bankruptcy. so i am still a pauper. :-(
[17:21:40] <SWPadnos> doesn't one or more of you have auto insurance?
[17:22:29] <fenn> standard medical coverage is $100k, seems kinda ridiculous to expect someone to pay the balance though
[17:23:16] <terrylr> SWPadnos, the individual liable for the accident had $250,000.00 usd per accident. that will get divided up between three hospitals and all the other medical professionals. the rest will come out of me.
[17:23:24] <SWPadnos> usually, the insurance company will be on the hook for all of it if you've gotten more than the minimum coverage required
[17:23:27] <SWPadnos> hmmm. bummer
[17:24:23] <SWPadnos> a friend of mine was in an accident some years ago - he was at fault. his lawyer sent a letter to the insurance company asking that they cover the whole bill, and they did (because he had $300k of coverage, and only 50 or 100k was required)
[17:24:26] <terrylr> SWPadnos, long legal nightmares.
[17:24:42] <SWPadnos> yes, I don't envy the position you're in
[17:24:59] <SWPadnos> good luck though
[17:25:24] <fenn> terrylr: i notice you wrote <all?> of the "GNU cad/cam" website. did any code ever come out of that?
[17:28:25] <JymmmEMC> terrylr: Be careful with the morphine. I had a friend that fell off a 2st construction site and crushed all the bones in his feet. He got addicted to the stuff, and 4 years later is slowly getting off of it.
[17:31:46] <terrylr> JymmmEMC, the doctors figure that i will always be on some level of morphine given the number of broken bones, nerve damage, etc
[17:32:54] <terrylr> JymmmEMC, basically, my legs were crushed by the dashboard being shoved down during the crash. i do not remember the accident. the accident was 6 aug 2007, i woke up 10 aug 2007.
[17:33:27] <JymmmEMC> terrylr: I understand, so was my friend, even after 10 surgeries on his feet. BUT, doctors will give you what you ask for, especially if you dont say anything different (addition wise), I just wanted you to be aware of that, and then maybe they can work with you and various pain meds so help prevent addiction.
[17:34:04] <terrylr> JymmmEMC, the airbag was what broke my ribs and collapsed the right lung.
[17:34:37] <terrylr> JymmmEMC, understand.
[17:34:42] <JymmmEMC> terrylr: Sounds liek a potential defective airbag =)
[17:37:45] <JymmmEMC> terrylr: You might check to see if there are any reports of others having serious damage to deployed airbags, might be able to use that in your case, in part.
[17:48:14] <ALS> fenn: I hoping to here some news on that GNU cad/cam also owell :)
[18:43:55] <JymmmEMC> terrylr: Sorry it took a while to find the link, but you might want to see if there is anything significant listed in here about your car as well, couldn't hurt to look at least and there is a section of user reported incidents as well: http://www.mycarstats.com/safetystation.asp
[19:44:03] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[20:26:47] <JymmmEMC> what can open/edit a DWG file on ubuntu?
[20:29:06] <BigJohnT> q cad
[20:29:25] <JymmmEMC> doesn't like DWG
[20:29:43] <OoBIGeye> qcad = dxf
[20:29:59] <BigJohnT> ok i get them confused with dxf
[20:30:57] <OoBIGeye> BigJohnT: we all do :)
[20:32:21] <JymmmEMC> http://lx-viewer.sourceforge.net/download.php
[20:32:36] <JymmmEMC> http://lx-viewer.sourceforge.net/index.php
[20:40:13] <JymmmEMC> If that could be pkg'ed as a deb file, it might be nice to include in emc build
[20:42:48] <BigJohnT> jepler: you around?
[20:56:53] <cradek> JymmmEMC: dwg is a proprietary autocad format
[20:58:00] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Ah. well.... maybe a super secret deb then, like http://somepastbinsitegoeshere.com/ =)
[21:07:28] <fenn> JymmmEMC: dwg is encrypted and all sorts of evil crap, just to make it hard to decode
[21:27:39] <BigJohnT> dang I hate loosing power
[21:28:08] <BigJohnT> jepler: you around?
[21:30:05] <BigJohnT> bbl
[21:37:38] <eric_U> somebody do me a favor and see if you can connect to http://www.toddsmodels.com
[21:40:15] <micges> eric_U: me can
[21:40:22] <alex_joni> what's the netmask for a 10.x.x.x network>?
[21:40:35] <alex_joni> do you have to use an A class subnet?
[21:40:53] <eric_U> micges: thanks, comcast messing with me again I guess
[21:41:18] <toastydeath> alex_joni: yes
[21:41:31] <toastydeath>
[21:41:36] <alex_joni> I mean, can I use an netmask for some hosts?
[21:41:43] <alex_joni> http://www.poptix.net/class/classa.html
[21:41:52] <toastydeath> sure, they won't be able to reach anything outside 10.x.x
[21:41:53] <alex_joni> that makes me think it's allowed
[21:42:00] <alex_joni> toastydeath: they don't have to ..
[21:42:04] <toastydeath> then do eet
[21:42:08] <alex_joni> was only wondering if it's legit
[21:42:13] <toastydeath> it is.
[21:42:18] <alex_joni> k, thanks
[22:14:43] <JymmmEMC> fenn: Ah, I wasn't aware of that.
[22:15:07] <JymmmEMC> Ok, so what is the prefed format?
[22:15:47] <alex_joni> I think he's off to bed
[22:16:05] <JymmmEMC> anyone is welcome to answer
[22:16:13] <alex_joni> for what?
[22:16:23] <JymmmEMC> as opposed to DWG format
[22:16:24] <alex_joni> ah, dwg?
[22:16:32] <alex_joni> dxf is fairly widespread
[22:16:40] <JymmmEMC> propritary?
[22:16:44] <alex_joni> programs which create dwg always create dxf aswell
[22:16:53] <alex_joni> I think the standard is known
[22:17:01] <alex_joni> not sure if it's public/free/whatever
[22:17:11] <JymmmEMC> ok, so there's DWG, DXF, and itns't there a 3rd?
[22:17:26] <alex_joni> for 2D CAD?
[22:17:38] <alex_joni> lots of proprietary
[22:17:44] <JymmmEMC> not taking about STEP or any of those
[22:17:46] <alex_joni> and probably some subset of STEP
[22:18:06] <JymmmEMC> another three letter one begining with D
[22:18:47] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DXF
[22:19:32] <JymmmEMC> Well, I found these, the viewer works nice for DWG http://www.opendwg.org/guestfiles
[22:19:37] <JymmmEMC> havne't tried the converted yet
[22:20:25] <JymmmEMC> ah, maybe I was thinking of DWF