a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
did someone break the intenet again?
WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE
did they let the genie out of the bottle again?
Craig Venter says his new technology is going to solve our energy problems forever
or turn the earth into a methane planet, he's not sure which
eric_U, got a link?
forever is a long time
where did I see that?
[02:49:31] <eric_U> http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iYXm1UNEI-ViI-p5S6TAaogyDv8Q
seems to be more about venter than about what he's doing (which isnt very unique)
it's always about Venter, he's nothing if not a self-promoter
he did some decent work on shotgun sequencing
but yeah, more of a celebrity than a scientist
I read the book about him, it was fascinating
I thought the best part was where he said he could produce a methane planet
well, fortunately, no
there's a reason we have an oxygen atmosphere
we're going to put a suicide gene in there, what could go wrong?
honestly i think the gray goo or green goo scenarios are over hyped
the stuff that's alive now is alive because it's the toughest, meanest thing that came along in the last 6 billion years
I know I am
don't mess with me, I'm the toughest, meanest thing that came along in the last 6 billion years
you dont see cornfields displacing praries, is what i mean
er, not without help
although the prairie reclamation projects usually require help
how can i examine # variables while emc runs? like loop iters , counters, products
I don't think you can
thats a capability I've wished for
I haven't ever found anything either
(PRINT, #<asdf>) or (DEBUG,#)
I would pay big money for that
the problem with those is that they print at interp time, which can be many lines ahead of the move that is currently executing
[03:10:31] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sub:Debugging-messages
but yes, they can help a lot
wow, ask an emc-related question and they come out of the woodwork ;)
new version of GCAM available
where were people getting quad cores for $200?
hm the docs say this -- I wonder if it's a limitation that's actually present: A line may have zero to four M words. Two M words from the same modal group may not appear on the same line.
are there more than 4 M-code modal groups?
it's hard to count
it might make sense to program: M6 M3 M7 M8 M49 M52 P1
(change tool, turn spindle, coolant mist+flood, enable feed override, enable adaptive feed)
swpadnos: it depends on the machine, sometimes yes.
"extra features" add modal groups.
ok, just wondering if that limit made any sense, and the number of modal M-code groups was the first thing that popped into mind
oh yes, you might throw an M101 in there as well
and an M102, M103, M104 ...
mist and flood are in the same group though, IIRC
seems silly, but I think I read that relatively recently
yes but the documentation notes that they may both be enabled at once
ah, so theoretically you can't turn them on on the same line, but they can be on at the same time
I don't know for sure
I *do* know for sure that the gcode documentation was mostly a cut&paste job of the old public domain nist documentation though
cut n' paste, it's not plagiarism, it's a way of life
looks like microcenter is the place for $200 quad cores
too bad the closest one is 3 hours from me, and it's in store only
microcenter usually follows pricing on the interweb - so someplace like newegg should be about as cheap as they are
newegg $50 more, cheaper than a 6 hour round trip
if #vars are evaluated ahead of execution , then messages based on #var values , will be out of sync, eg (MSG, level too low fill hopper!). hmm, gotta look at how tool chg msg popup is sync'd!
it's a dialog box with a HAL pin
or two - the "OK" button also causes an output to go true (telling motion that the toolchange has occurred)
yep, mongo chg tool ok to go on now
if pyvcp can control visibility, then it could do something like that as well
certain things sync up motion and messages
unqueueable stuff - for example I've done M5 ; (MSG, Insert 1/4" endmill); M0 and had the message appear at the right time
but if you just stick the MSG between one batch of 50 G1's and another batch of 50 G1, it will probably appear before the first move of the first batch
does anyone know anything about concrete floors and the sizing thereof
you mean how thick?
(tomp studies unqueable... kinda got it, exchg pallet, stop spindle...)
well not only thickness but area around the tool
around the tool?
you looking for the pad to place a machine on?
like if you buy a large machine tool, it needs a properly sized bed to sit on
that would generally apply to "large" machines
ask machine tool builder? i've had to suggest separating the new concrete form old to isolate presses from machines
significantly bigger than a BP or even a moderate VMC
i was wondering if anyone knew a general guideline
for machines like Bports, a typical factory floor is fine, you don't need any special pads
i am talking about large tools
even most VMCs probably don't need anything special
like the planers at work have to sit on large steel beds, and apparently that spreads the force out enough
truly large tools will by their very nature have _specific_ requirements for that tool - there isn't a general guideline
to sit on the existing floor
see that's not the impression i got from listening to other people discuss the subject
based on the weight of the machine and it's footprint (plus soil composition) you could at least ballpark the pad it needs to sit on
[03:54:24] <tomp> http://books.google.com/books?id=9jCre3nTpeYC&pg=PA643&lpg=PA643&dq=concrete+thickness+machine+tool&source=web&ots=UzHJsW7UyT&sig=cGGE6aku0k2QqS67D7kZAS5mjn0&hl=en
an actual formula for concrete size & thx
inet is wicked cool
i did some googling but didn't find that
np, lucky hit
just as an excercise i'm trying to find the cost of the concrete pad for various forging hammers
oh those are a lot bigger than they look apparently
a lot, lot bigger
the forging hammers I have seen are quite large, 20'
yeah but did you know most of the mass is underground?
i didn't until like, two minutes ago
no, I didn't
guess it makes sense though
the anvil goes like 15' underground and is essentially solid steel
bigger than the base of the hammer
even the small, utility hammers take a big base
I guess that came out of long hard experience
broke the forging hammer again, darn it
well apparently what happens is they tilt
like the tower of piza
that would be crazy
but the foundation for the big hammers might not be so great because the foundation essentially comes with the hammer
just have to dig the pit
just make your machine tool out of concrete ferchrissake
this "bolt it to the ground because its not rigid enough" stuff makes me sick
screw hammer dies at greenville for ge aero were 2 stories tall ( and 3 stores deep ), both halves were driven
that's a big die
that's the machine, right
not the die
right, theres some big ass machines out there
it's probably fastest to just email and ask somebody at a forge what it costs to have a hammer installed
TWENTY BILLION DOLLARS EACH
i bet the anvil is the most expensive part
well that comes with the machine
columns, hammer, and anvil are all included
so really the only "external costing" questions are moving the damn thing and putting it somewhere afterwards
but you have to buy the machine
big machines are, comparatively, cheap
eh, if you get it used maybe
shops close and nobody wants to buy 20 forging hammers, so the market for big tools is very small
and theres no warehouses of them, they are where they were
an artifact of our industrial base moving to china
its spooky walking into big old factories
i'd love to live in an old factory.
or warehouse. plenty o' space for machines.
too romantic, they're filthy dusty greasy dirty... and not nice
well i figure one can put up walls and living space
inside the place, like offices.
you could have a really nice house/apartment thing inside a warehouse.
i agree with the idea, i just been in a lot of em and got a bad taste
as a matter of fact, not much nicer floors than pounded wood blocks
4x4's grain end up, worn smooth by millions of dollies and steel toed shoes
oh, i meant actually building inside
so like, installing a floor/walls/roof
not using whatever was there
where you at?
usually, they have offices that could be converted to living space
DEALAWARE I WISH
hmm, downtown louisvile, is a badlands of old factories waiting to be rejuvenated
same with old detroit
and old cleveland
yeah, that's very appealing
but i think i can find something closer to here
plus i have to research the zoning
maybe bethsheba? seems i did some work there
girlfriend and i are nowhere near moving into a place so that's a long-term goal for now.
living in commercial space is no problem usually
i keep hearing conflicting stuff about it
it's the other way around
that's a prob
lead & asbestos...
that could be a problem anywhere though
sorry to stimey the dream, i'll go work on stuff
tons of asbestos ceilings out there
yeah but there are also places without asbestos ceilings
so not a deal killer but like everything else, something to look out for.
I meant in residential homes
not sure about factories, I guess a lot of them may have gotten sprayed in asbestos as retrofit
I saw a really nice factory renovation a while back, they did the whole place
into a house, or into another factory
it was all house
I'd like to keep parts as industrial
my biggest concern is resale.
because i'm probably not going to get much more out of it than the building itself costs
any additional building will be loss
so again, have to look into it.
haha the toolchg popup has an expiration date, how long the initial popup stays visible, i might just make a 'watch' window
pops up on a trigger, then decays
sometimes it doesn't pay to to surf on youtube
warning, potential darwin award winner on tape: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWj_PQQ4zGs&feature=related
death by youtube
that guy deserved jail time for sure though
they were moving fast, hitting a kid with a car door is big time assult
can hal know about #variables? any examples?
please restate the question
can a pyvcp panel have a 'number' widget attached to a hal pin attached to emc variable #1?
yes but it'll take a bit of futzing around
you can use M66 and M65 to connect to hal pins
[05:52:02] <toastydeath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBQQS7oMW2A&feature=related
hmm, i was think of a 'watch' window for many # variables, say 1 thru 32
the variable will only update when you use m65/66 though
you could do an o-word routine to update all the vars, but i'm not sure about synchronization between the interpreter and non-realtime hal
i'd attach it to a trgr which was (#1!=old#1 or #2!=old#2 or... #32!=old#32) (aka somebody changed )
yes, my problem is sync
nah, polling is easier
doesnt handle sync, right now a simple loop variable #1, that control execution of a short program, is at it's limit beofre motion begins
hard to define 'something changed' on an analog signal with a bit of noise on it
not analog, integer counts
today's hack is tomorrow's architecture :P
ok, begin with what we can do then expand ;) how do i get a single int displayed with the current value, not future value
put the m65 code after the realtime queue, not in the interp
outta my ken
* fenn glances at alex_joni with a knowing eye
ok, got other fish to fly
haha midnite and i QUIT
i wish cvsweb had a search function
obvious but still neat: http://www.vibextreme.com/content/hyanide-dirt-bike-snowmobile-four-wheeler-utmost-road-ride
I was reading the irc log file from yesterday and i saw that there is a lot of things missing. It seems something is wrong logger_emc or someone who does the logging.
fenn: M66 is the one you want
but it stops interpreting beyond that function, so any things like look-ahead won't work beyond that
alex_joni: dont you need both? one for read and one for write?
alex_joni: i had asked fenn if i could read the iterator for a loop, say #1.
the discussion showed read-ahead handed you a future value, not present value.
do you think hal can access #variables?
I'm imagining something like a watch window in most debuggers for #1 thru #32 for example.
tomp wonders if the iterator variable really has advanced and the action is just delayed... due to queueing... i 'spose thats whats going on.
task would have to report chgs to #vars as it executes items so the user could see sync'd values. just report not assign
[14:07:02] <BigJohnT> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knf3cPrZPrk
BigJohnT: hey so why dont you put a pencil on it and draw something pretty
fenn: but I don't have my Z axis built yet
still trying decide on how to do the thrust bearings on Z leadscrew
dont need z to write cursive :) http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/cxf_hello.png
this one's set up for cursive already: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/cxf_splash.py
btw i havent actually seen a physical result from that script - let me know if it actually works :9
ok, I just did a test to a file but it will have to wait for after breakfast
I did get an error report on the first line of the file
(warning: discrepancy in number of commands /usr/share/qcad/fonts/normal.cxf, line 641, 7 != 10 )
oh, yeah that's normal :\
fenn: right, you need another M65 to write the command
M66 is only for reading
tomp: M66 will get the current value
it works like this: interp starts reading a new program, and sending commands to task which starts executing them (actually sending them to motion and io)
after a while interp will be quite far ahead than the current execution..
when interp finds an M66 it stops interpreting the program, and waits for the execution to reach M66
once it reached, the M66 command is sent to task, which sends it to motion, etc
and you'll get the "current" value of the HAL pin
just a little bug in the stepconf wizard. If you only have limit switches on X and Y it makes HOME_SEQUENCE for AXIS_0 = 1 and for AXIS_1 = 2. Without the 0 as the first it will not home
that might confuse a newbee a bit when it won't home
Just curious, is EMC222 still on ubuntu 6?
[16:47:26] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/2/4/lang,en/+
alex_joni: Any chance of it getting to 7 anytime soon?
alex_joni: I remember someting about RTAI issues, but forget the details
JymmmEMC: I plan to make a new kernel for 8.04
but if that will work.. we'll have to wait and see
OH MY GAWD.... ubuntu.com == ununtu + dell Eeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Sorry, my dispise of dell is showing =)
[16:52:56] <JymmmEMC> http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
JymmmEMC: dell is cheap, and that's quite a virtue when you have no other option
fenn: Ok, a major mfg supplying nix is cool, but dell has left a bad taste in my mouth over the years. I wish it was someone like IBM instead is all.
And I wonder what support you get if you have to call dell =)
hah why IBM?
* fenn is so clueless he cant think of a high quality computer manufacturer
I've had good luck with thinkpads, many don't but most dont understand TP's either.
does SGI still make good stuff? :)
fenn: I think SGI is no longer (RIP)
i know, in all but name
fenn: SGI stopped making/selling their boxes with alternative OS'es early 00 iirc
maybe even late 90's
Last OS I remember was NT4
well, the whole point of digital electronics is that the quality doesn't matter since it's already perfect
so, it's basically a matter of configuration and (searching for words here..)
functional design elements
By SGI I'm assuming you mean Silicon Graphics?
we reached commodity computing ten years ago and your average joe still hasn't realized it
but that hasnt stopped google etc. from filling semi trailers full of motherboards and hard disks
JymmmEMC: what do you think, does google use high performance scsi disks, or the bottom of the line crap?
niemand is now known as terrylr
SATA is more man stream these days
this is my man stream!
has ray been around lately?
not much, but then again I haven
haven't been around to see him
terrylr: ray has just finished installing his high-speed internet connection
so he'll be around in the future..
terrylr: I can pass you ray's email addy if you'd like
alex_joni, last 6 aug 2007, i was in a head-on-collision accident. not my fault. i spent 2 wks in icu and 6 wks in rehabilation. since then trying to learn how to walk again. my injuries were: left hip broken, left femur broken in 5 places, right knee cap shattered, right tibia and fibia compound fracture, 4 broken ribs right side, right lung collapsed. the emts had to reboot me several times before they could get me stable enough to remov
e from the accident scene. haivng two broken legs is not fun.
alex_joni, i do not get down to the computers that often anymore. i get around in a wheelchair so i tend to stick to the main floor of the house.
alex_joni, the left hip given my age may take up to two years to heal. that is why i am living on morphine.
alex_joni, the current cost of that head-on-collision has been $550,000.00 usd. the individual that is liable for the accident is judgement proof. he would just declare bankruptcy. so i am still a pauper. :-(
doesn't one or more of you have auto insurance?
standard medical coverage is $100k, seems kinda ridiculous to expect someone to pay the balance though
SWPadnos, the individual liable for the accident had $250,000.00 usd per accident. that will get divided up between three hospitals and all the other medical professionals. the rest will come out of me.
usually, the insurance company will be on the hook for all of it if you've gotten more than the minimum coverage required
a friend of mine was in an accident some years ago - he was at fault. his lawyer sent a letter to the insurance company asking that they cover the whole bill, and they did (because he had $300k of coverage, and only 50 or 100k was required)
SWPadnos, long legal nightmares.
yes, I don't envy the position you're in
good luck though
terrylr: i notice you wrote <all?> of the "GNU cad/cam" website. did any code ever come out of that?
terrylr: Be careful with the morphine. I had a friend that fell off a 2st construction site and crushed all the bones in his feet. He got addicted to the stuff, and 4 years later is slowly getting off of it.
JymmmEMC, the doctors figure that i will always be on some level of morphine given the number of broken bones, nerve damage, etc
JymmmEMC, basically, my legs were crushed by the dashboard being shoved down during the crash. i do not remember the accident. the accident was 6 aug 2007, i woke up 10 aug 2007.
terrylr: I understand, so was my friend, even after 10 surgeries on his feet. BUT, doctors will give you what you ask for, especially if you dont say anything different (addition wise), I just wanted you to be aware of that, and then maybe they can work with you and various pain meds so help prevent addiction.
JymmmEMC, the airbag was what broke my ribs and collapsed the right lung.
terrylr: Sounds liek a potential defective airbag =)
terrylr: You might check to see if there are any reports of others having serious damage to deployed airbags, might be able to use that in your case, in part.
fenn: I hoping to here some news on that GNU cad/cam also owell :)
terrylr: Sorry it took a while to find the link, but you might want to see if there is anything significant listed in here about your car as well, couldn't hurt to look at least and there is a section of user reported incidents as well: http://www.mycarstats.com/safetystation.asp
lewin1 is now known as lewing
what can open/edit a DWG file on ubuntu?
doesn't like DWG
qcad = dxf
ok i get them confused with dxf
BigJohnT: we all do :)
[20:32:21] <JymmmEMC> http://lx-viewer.sourceforge.net/download.php
[20:32:36] <JymmmEMC> http://lx-viewer.sourceforge.net/index.php
If that could be pkg'ed as a deb file, it might be nice to include in emc build
jepler: you around?
JymmmEMC: dwg is a proprietary autocad format
cradek: Ah. well.... maybe a super secret deb then, like http://somepastbinsitegoeshere.com/
JymmmEMC: dwg is encrypted and all sorts of evil crap, just to make it hard to decode
dang I hate loosing power
jepler: you around?
somebody do me a favor and see if you can connect to http://www.toddsmodels.com
eric_U: me can
what's the netmask for a 10.x.x.x network>?
do you have to use an A class subnet?
micges: thanks, comcast messing with me again I guess
I mean, can I use an 255.255.255.0 netmask for some hosts?
[21:41:43] <alex_joni> http://www.poptix.net/class/classa.html
sure, they won't be able to reach anything outside 10.x.x
that makes me think it's allowed
toastydeath: they don't have to ..
then do eet
was only wondering if it's legit
fenn: Ah, I wasn't aware of that.
Ok, so what is the prefed format?
I think he's off to bed
anyone is welcome to answer
as opposed to DWG format
dxf is fairly widespread
programs which create dwg always create dxf aswell
I think the standard is known
not sure if it's public/free/whatever
ok, so there's DWG, DXF, and itns't there a 3rd?
for 2D CAD?
lots of proprietary
not taking about STEP or any of those
and probably some subset of STEP
another three letter one begining with D
[22:18:47] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DXF
Well, I found these, the viewer works nice for DWG http://www.opendwg.org/guestfiles
havne't tried the converted yet
ah, maybe I was thinking of DWF