#emc | Logs for 2008-02-29

[01:14:22] <dogfishguzzler> How do you guys cope with this torrent of activity? It's just crazy
[01:14:31] <dogfishguzzler> :P
[01:16:26] <jmkasunich> neat vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ2pkmISOLM
[01:16:26] <jmkasunich> see the sonic boom
[01:16:27] <dogfishguzzler> On a more serious note. Are there any plans to implement interpreters that read the various macro languages in EMC?
[01:17:36] <dogfishguzzler> I wish I had the skill to write said interpreter but I know better than to take that headache on.
[01:17:45] <Guest788> helllo all
[01:18:04] <dogfishguzzler> Hey guest.
[01:18:09] <Guest788> how do i check to see if i have a good download ?
[01:18:20] <Guest788> oop...name is kenneth
[01:18:33] <Guest788> hello dog
[01:19:13] <dogfishguzzler> Well, this channel has like 30 something gurus and me. I don;t know if I can help you but I can ask you some basic questions.
[01:19:24] <dogfishguzzler> Did you download source?
[01:19:46] <Guest788> emcubuntu
[01:20:04] <jmkasunich> the CD?
[01:20:11] <dogfishguzzler> Well then burn it, throw it in your computer and reboot. It will work or not :D
[01:20:17] <Guest788> i downloaded the live cd....i'm new to linux and need a bdi
[01:20:31] <Guest788> ok thanks
[01:21:05] <Guest788> nite all and thanks dog
[01:21:28] <dogfishguzzler> Don't thank me, thanks these others guys who wrote the software you are about to ENJOY!
[01:21:34] <dogfishguzzler> ohh well
[01:21:37] <dogfishguzzler> I tried lol
[01:22:28] <dogfishguzzler> Check it out y'all, I'm here for thirty some minutes and I got thanked...What did you guys do today that changed the world?
[01:23:27] <dogfishguzzler> My wife stopped global warming by being so frigid and I just changed that guys life. I feel like a hero.
[01:23:41] <dogfishguzzler> A super hero.
[01:23:46] <dogfishguzzler> Super dog
[01:23:50] <dogfishguzzler> Wait no
[01:23:53] <dogfishguzzler> Under Dog
[01:25:22] <dogfishguzzler> So are you guys all biz and no play or what? You guys are the closest thing online to a real community of machinist and you guys are dead silent.
[01:25:39] <toastydeath> what.
[01:25:59] <dogfishguzzler> I too modify metal, Show me some love or I will jump from the sears building.
[01:26:16] <dogfishguzzler> Hey toasty, long time no see.
[01:26:20] <jmkasunich> I bet you'll be talking all the way down too
[01:26:31] <dogfishguzzler> Typing, not talking
[01:27:01] <dogfishguzzler> Two seconds before impact I will peck out my final 'EOB'
[01:27:15] <dogfishguzzler> or ';'
[01:27:23] <dogfishguzzler> however you prefer
[01:28:03] <dogfishguzzler> jmk, why you gotta hate my brother?
[01:28:22] <toastydeath> you have a brother?
[01:28:35] <dogfishguzzler> :D
[01:28:46] <dogfishguzzler> I have millions of brothers
[01:29:02] <dogfishguzzler> Mom was busy
[01:30:02] <dogfishguzzler> Hows school going Toasty?
[01:30:15] <dogfishguzzler> Learning anything?
[01:30:19] <toastydeath> just got back, doing very well.
[01:30:24] <dogfishguzzler> Good man
[01:31:56] <dogfishguzzler> I have been spending alot of time writing macros for an Okuma control and have been pondering how EMC could benefit from a macro conversation script but I can't write it. I can however discuss it.
[01:32:38] <dogfishguzzler> EMC is such a great contribution I hope one day I can have a hand in it.
[01:32:46] <toastydeath> what do you mean by "conversation script"
[01:33:29] <dogfishguzzler> A script that takes the variables from various languages and turns them to standard Gcode.
[01:34:33] <dogfishguzzler> The variables Okuma uses are very different from the ones in Fanuc B. Even Fanuc's varibales are subject to change from one major control release to the next.
[01:34:54] <toastydeath> yep
[01:35:08] <dogfishguzzler> But being able to write macros or import them into EMC and have standard Gcode out put would be awesome.
[01:35:18] <toastydeath> you could do that with any number of command line tools
[01:35:27] <dogfishguzzler> I know but I'm not 1337
[01:35:47] <dogfishguzzler> Only on machine tools do I rule.
[01:35:58] <dogfishguzzler> And I do rule :D
[01:37:22] <dogfishguzzler> I know EMC supports variables but I wanna be able to offer my latest programs for this Okuma as EMC cycles. Problem is the Okuma commands are different than every other machine on the planet.
[01:37:49] <dogfishguzzler> Okuma is a loner, much like JMK
[01:38:16] <toastydeath> what do you mean
[01:38:23] <toastydeath> like the g-code numbers are all fucked up
[01:38:47] <toastydeath> like g81 is for calling macros instead of bolt holes?
[01:38:50] <toastydeath> i've never used an okuma
[01:38:50] <dogfishguzzler> That and the macro language, aka User Task 2, is different.
[01:39:37] <dogfishguzzler> No, on an Okuma if you wanna call a macro via a G or M code it must be registered. This proccess in itself is a pain in the ass.
[01:40:09] <dogfishguzzler> Lemme post my bar pull macro and maybe you can see what I mean
[01:40:28] <toastydeath> i am not versed in macro on fanuc
[01:40:42] <toastydeath> nobody uses it where i work and i haven't had a chance to mess with it on the machines that do have it
[01:41:16] <dogfishguzzler> http://pastebin.com/m5af7a7f2
[01:41:47] <dogfishguzzler> Macro is the shit if your a programmer. It makes your job waaaaay easier.
[01:42:48] <toastydeath> yeah i wish we wrote in macro b
[01:43:02] <dogfishguzzler> It would be nice if EMC had a script that would take that code and convert it to straight G code so any machine could run it, provided that the post was configured right.
[01:43:57] <dogfishguzzler> That cycle kick ass man. I love that program. It's my favorite creation.
[01:45:52] <dogfishguzzler> You see that shit in there like VSIOZ and VTLEN and all that? Those variables are different with Fanuc B. On Okuma VSIOZ is the variable that describes the Z axis commqand point and VTLEN is the number of the active tool. In Fanuc B it would be #2006 or some crap.
[01:46:24] <toastydeath> i guess i've used enough programming languages that it doesn't matter to me
[01:46:30] <toastydeath> it's kind of irritating that it's not portable
[01:46:37] <toastydeath> but whatevs
[01:48:30] <dogfishguzzler> It is irritating that it's not portable.
[01:49:17] <dogfishguzzler> Suppose a month from now I'm standing in front of a Fanuc 6-T then I have to rewrite and possible rethink that whole routine.
[01:49:57] <toastydeath> or download subversion and write a patch
[01:50:08] <toastydeath> and just patch a program for fanuc or okuma
[01:50:10] <toastydeath> or something
[01:50:21] <toastydeath> i dunno how different they are.
[01:54:01] <dogfishguzzler> I'm a control type of guy. I like to program at the control when I can. The reason is that allows me to poke around and find the little hidden features that make each control worth the money the owner paid for it.
[01:54:34] <dogfishguzzler> Anyway my wife just got home and is looking friendly. I hope we can continue this conversation later.
[01:54:44] <dogfishguzzler> Bye guys
[01:54:49] <dogfishguzzler> *Kisses jmk*
[01:59:41] <tom1> where might i look largish unipolar motors? comparable to 200w servo?
[02:00:11] <tom1> stuck with unipolar driver
[02:13:31] <eric_U> na gah
[02:15:37] <eric_U> any 6 or 8 wire stepper can be driven unipolar, but the performance will not equal a servo
[02:16:04] <tom1> thx, just discovered... this aint unipolar, got a l298! never believe translated docs
[02:16:24] <tom1> now, to bypass the l298 and use a real amp
[02:17:01] <tom1> got some pacsci's that'll be strong enuf
[02:48:47] <a-l-p-h-a> who's in Texas?
[02:48:51] <a-l-p-h-a> anyone?
[02:49:28] <eric_U> linux is against the law in texas
[02:49:48] <a-l-p-h-a> well... I'm flying down to austin in a week.
[03:34:14] <servant74> austin can be a fun place. lots of geeks there.
[03:34:27] <servant74> I have some family that lives there too!
[03:37:40] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Hey, instead of a USB controller with all the polling bullshit, what about firewire controller?
[03:38:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: or a variant on iSCSI? =)
[03:38:48] <eric_U> it's been done
[03:39:03] <eric_U> firewire works fine, too bad it's going away
[03:39:15] <JymmmEMC> in place of what?
[03:39:23] <JymmmEMC> USB isn't gonna take it over.
[03:39:38] <eric_U> it's not mainstream
[03:39:52] <JymmmEMC> Firewire cards are cheap.
[03:40:06] <eric_U> that's true
[03:40:14] <JymmmEMC> Hell, even my MPB has FW 800
[03:40:15] <eric_U> fire sale on firewire
[03:40:25] <eric_U> what's an mpb?
[03:40:30] <JymmmEMC> MacBook Pro
[03:41:19] <JymmmEMC> And since it's intel cpu, I could boot into ubuntu or run it under vmware for testing
[03:41:20] <eric_U> new macs don't have
[03:41:40] <JymmmEMC> MBP sure does... both Firewire 400 and firewire 800
[03:42:08] <eric_U> that's good
[03:42:19] <eric_U> it would be nice if firewire got more support
[03:42:36] <eric_U> I have a firewire system from Aerotech
[03:43:23] <tom1> me too, it was expensive, a3200, i think
[03:43:42] <eric_U> that's what I have
[03:43:58] <eric_U> $80k worth :)
[03:44:03] <tom1> i should sell mine off
[03:44:14] <tom1> wow 80k$
[03:44:15] <JymmmEMC> One of the admin's at work gave me a PowerBook. The DVD drive in it is really dirty so I couldn't install tiger on it. I had another MBP that doesn't detect the HDD in it, so I powered it up, put it in TARGET mode, than connected a firewire cable between the two laptops. I used the MBP's dvd drive to boot up the other PB and install tiger
[03:44:25] <tom1> not for just a3200
[03:44:48] <eric_U> 2 systems, 10? axis
[03:45:01] <tom1> and amps and motors and scales?
[03:45:12] <JymmmEMC> I'm telling ya, firewire on mac is DA BOMB!
[03:45:21] <eric_U> right
[03:45:54] <JymmmEMC> you sure in the hell couldn't do that under a PC w/o an OS installed.
[03:46:39] <eric_U> that is a nice feature
[03:46:49] <eric_U> no reason it couldn't be done on a pc given the desire
[03:47:19] <eric_U> too bad pxa is so hard to set up
[03:47:31] <JymmmEMC> And, if you do that under one with OS installed, the TARGET machine's device just mount on the other's desktop and be accessed like if they were installed in your machine.
[03:47:39] <JymmmEMC> PXE?
[03:47:48] <eric_U> pxe
[03:47:48] <JymmmEMC> net boot you mean?
[03:47:54] <eric_U> yeah
[03:48:01] <JymmmEMC> you said PXA, was just making sure.
[03:48:37] <eric_U> it's built in to almost every pc bios, but it takes too much energy to make it work
[03:49:06] <JymmmEMC> eric_U: http://sysresccd.org/Main_Page
[03:49:16] <JymmmEMC> eric_U: It has a option to create a PXE server in there
[03:49:51] <JymmmEMC> from it's LiveCD
[03:50:01] <eric_U> this is cool: "SystemRescueCd is available for blind people."
[03:51:56] <eric_U> know of an easy way to make an installation cd from the image on a hard disk?
[03:52:18] <JymmmEMC> eric_U: It's a lvoe cd, just boot it
[03:52:21] <JymmmEMC> live
[03:52:48] <eric_U> I'm going to try it, but I was changing the subject
[03:52:55] <JymmmEMC> I've been using it to build disk images for laptops
[03:53:06] <JymmmEMC> live ghost
[03:53:08] <JymmmEMC> like
[03:53:17] <toastydeath> does anyone remember, offhand, the equation for cutting horsepower on a lathe
[03:53:21] <toastydeath> i have one but i'm not sure it's correct
[03:53:45] <eric_U> what is your equation?
[03:53:46] <JymmmEMC> PartImage == Ghost, though you SHOULD save the MBR too, as it doens't, but it's easy todo
[03:54:17] <toastydeath> hp = surface inches a minute * feed rate * depth of cut * power req per in^3
[03:55:43] <eric_U> units are right at least
[03:56:10] <toastydeath> then that's it
[03:56:22] <toastydeath> it's producing numbers a little smaller than I recall but they're in the ballpark
[03:56:34] <toastydeath> ty eric_u
[03:56:34] <eric_U> except the feed rate should be in/s?
[03:56:53] <toastydeath> well the in/s is in the surface speed
[03:57:54] <eric_U> where do you get the power required per volume?
[03:57:58] <toastydeath> charts
[03:58:03] <toastydeath> (unfortunately)
[03:58:30] <toastydeath> machinery's handbook
[04:00:14] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[04:00:15] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[04:00:54] <tom1> a neat ancient electric motor, like barclay's wheel, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Homopolar_Motor_Large.jpg
[04:02:22] <eric_U> that requires a video
[05:42:50] <fenn> blarg
[05:43:06] <fenn> okuma macros look just as shitty as any g-code
[05:44:45] <toastydeath> lol
[05:44:51] <toastydeath> it's just different variables
[06:01:22] <fenn> good 20 min video about personal manufacturing revolution http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/90
[07:49:04] <micges> hello
[07:50:44] <micges> bad thing with my adaptive feed happening
[07:51:00] <micges> when I set speed to 600
[07:51:18] <micges> arc are burned with speed 327
[07:52:04] <micges> nevermind :P
[07:53:56] <fenn> nevermind?
[07:57:34] <micges> ok, no nevermind
[07:57:56] <micges> imagine sqare with 100 mm width
[07:58:27] <micges> with rounded corners 10 mm
[07:59:00] <fenn> oh, you probably run into the accel = v/r^2 problem
[07:59:28] <micges> small arc = slow motion ?
[07:59:46] <fenn> yes, basic physics
[07:59:59] <fenn> oops v^2/r
[08:00:38] <micges> strange , when I controlled my laser with F[speed] and feed override there was no problem with that
[08:00:55] <micges> or emc fixed this in some cases ?
[08:01:16] <fenn> when you set F=2000 it screws up the planner
[08:01:28] <fenn> the trajectory planner thinks you want to go around that arc at 2000mm/min
[08:01:40] <fenn> it could do the arc faster if you told it F=600
[08:01:52] <fenn> that's why your M112 hack is stupid
[08:02:33] <micges> you could tell me this :)
[08:03:00] <fenn> use F to set feed rate. done.
[08:04:12] <micges> ok
[11:08:51] <fenn> i want a magic workbench that cleans itself up when i'm done
[11:09:00] <fenn> can someone here make me one?
[11:17:34] <archivist> a compressor, a ram and a handy box on the floor to catch
[11:18:57] <archivist> box to be marked "bench parts to be sorted, Dont Throw!"
[13:16:50] <acemi_> acemi_ is now known as acemi
[13:59:18] <alex_joni> haha
[13:59:20] <alex_joni> "Patches are welcomed.
[13:59:20] <alex_joni> They will applied after I've understood them. So you must be ready to
[13:59:20] <alex_joni> hammer them into my head if I do not understand them at once.
[13:59:21] <alex_joni> "
[14:59:08] <Roguish> good morning. has anyone out there been able to get ubuntu/emc2 working on a bootable flash drive?????
[15:02:54] <jepler> Roguish: http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg05033.html
[15:04:52] <Roguish> Jepler: thanks... looks like that is with an IDE flash drive.
[15:05:31] <Roguish> i have a regular flash drive, USB style. 8 gig. fought with it a lot yesterday. tried allllll kinds of things.
[15:05:53] <Roguish> pendrivelinux and more.
[15:06:16] <Roguish> even a lame attempt with the regular emc2 livecd.
[15:06:17] <cradek> I found instructions on the ubuntu wiki for making ubuntu run from a usb flash disk. I tried it and failed, but others here have succeeded. The problem may have been my machine.
[15:06:33] <cradek> so I'd start by looking there again
[15:07:09] <Roguish> been all over that. i'll keep at it, but i am so lame at linux that it's a real struggle.
[15:07:35] <Roguish> getting better at linux fdisk, though.
[15:07:46] <cradek> what is the url for the instructions you are using?
[15:08:00] <cradek> I wonder if it's what I tried
[15:08:04] <Roguish> i have actually got one install to try to boot, then it hangs.
[15:11:07] <Roguish> crakek. i'm not sure right now. so many. i will keep at it.. actually i just found another ubuntuforum note.
[15:12:27] <Roguish> i would like to have emc2 w/ real time running, not just a vanilla ubuntu.
[15:13:00] <Roguish> but i will take anything now so i can run emc2 in 'simulation'.
[15:13:12] <cradek> right, but the procedure is going to be the same
[15:13:42] <cradek> the difference between ubuntu and ubuntu realtime is just a few packages on the cd
[15:14:01] <Roguish> i have tried this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDPersistence
[15:14:47] <cradek> this is for cd + usb stick boot
[15:14:50] <cradek> not what you want
[15:14:56] <cradek> (if I understand you right)
[15:15:34] <Roguish> just found this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1062799&postcount=100
[15:19:06] <Roguish> i've looked at the bios of 4 motherboards and they all do the 'usb boot' differently. only the newest, an asus with an amd processor, seems to really work.
[15:19:36] <Roguish> at least it tried to boot, then hung.
[15:22:11] <cradek> I can't find the instructions I tried a while back
[15:23:04] <cradek> aha: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
[15:24:14] <Roguish> yeah, i have been thru that one several times. that's the one that tries to boot and then hangs.
[15:24:39] <Roguish> unfortunately it keeps hanging in different pplaces.
[15:24:39] <cradek> yeah like I said, I never quite got it working either
[15:24:53] <cradek> huh
[15:26:10] <Roguish> it shows the splash screen and starts rolling thru the boot, sometimes it stalls at 'adding user' sometimes at 'creating file ssystem'.
[15:31:19] <Roguish> cradek: i have a 5axes gantry configuration running in simulation. based on your 5axis and the gantry sim. i would like you to check it out. can i send you the files?
[15:32:37] <cradek> can you put them somewhere where everyone can see instead? seems like there's a lot of interest
[15:33:06] <Roguish> i guess. upload to the wiki with a link in the wiki?
[15:33:29] <cradek> sure
[15:35:05] <Roguish> will do later today. i would appreciate your feedback. i am concerned with the kinematics and homing.
[15:35:46] <Roguish> thank you.
[15:35:53] <cradek> ah, I didn't understand you were asking for help, I'll do what I can
[15:36:22] <Roguish> not necessarily help, just critical review.
[16:28:34] <micges> why hal pin halui.feed-override.value is read only?
[18:22:07] <alex_joni> micges: because it's only for reading
[18:22:12] <alex_joni> it gets set from the GUI
[18:22:19] <alex_joni> and passed on to the RT task
[18:26:53] <micges> passed to the planner or later ?
[18:27:23] <alex_joni> I don't understand?
[18:28:27] <micges> today I understand that AF scale velocity after TP calculate it and acc
[18:28:45] <micges> and I get v^2/r problem
[18:30:15] <micges> and I think that FO value is send to the traj planner becouse correct acc and velocity
[18:30:28] <micges> no v^2/r problem
[18:33:12] <micges> from begining fenn tells me that my M112 velocity hhack will be wrong
[18:33:19] <micges> now I know why :)
[18:46:59] <alex_joni> right
[18:47:12] <alex_joni> the feedoverride in the GUI gets set before TP, so TP obeys it
[18:47:21] <alex_joni> but the same works for adaptive-feed-override
[18:50:05] <micges> today all day test show it doesn't
[18:51:28] <alex_joni> I'm not sure I understand..
[18:51:29] <micges> alex_joni: I must go, back in 3h
[18:51:51] <micges> when I back I describe all to you
[20:00:47] <toastydeath> fffff
[20:04:43] <alex_joni> ggggg
[20:38:50] <archivist> h++
[21:09:12] <billy_kid2> hello
[21:14:33] <billy_kid2> hello
[21:27:29] <micges> Im back
[21:27:49] <alex_joni> 'lo
[21:29:28] <micges> well
[21:29:55] <micges> when I set F to 5000
[21:30:07] <micges> scale down with AF to about 600
[21:30:40] <micges> arcs with radius 2.5 mm are burned with speed 100
[21:31:07] <micges> and arc with r 10 are burned with 327
[21:31:43] <micges> TP are trying to burn with F5000
[21:32:22] <alex_joni> let me read some code..
[21:32:39] <micges> w8
[21:33:05] <alex_joni> micges: you can describe further..
[21:33:41] <micges> ah ok
[21:34:15] <alex_joni> did you try different settings for blending?
[21:34:25] <alex_joni> G64 P0.1 ?
[21:35:33] <micges> g64p0.01 -> no slow down when line->arc but same slower motion
[21:36:03] <alex_joni> micges: ok, lets try to get some usefull data now..
[21:36:16] <alex_joni> you set feedrate (F-word in the program ) to 5000 mm/min
[21:36:36] <alex_joni> the feed-override in the GUI is set to 100%
[21:36:49] <micges> yes yes
[21:37:16] <alex_joni> AF is set to 0,12 which results in a speed of 600 mm/min
[21:37:46] <micges> yes
[21:38:02] <micges> and lines burn = 600
[21:38:18] <alex_joni> ok, so for linear you get 600mm/min
[21:38:26] <micges> arc with r = 10mm burn speed = 327
[21:38:48] <alex_joni> but for arcs it slows down to 100 mm/min (for 2.5mm radius) and 327mm/min (r = 10mm)
[21:38:57] <alex_joni> ok, so that's part 1
[21:39:01] <alex_joni> scenario 2:
[21:39:09] <alex_joni> F600, FO = 1, AF = 1
[21:39:31] <micges> scenario 2 works ok
[21:39:41] <alex_joni> lines done with 600 mm/min, arcs with 600 mm/min?
[21:40:44] <micges> wait moment
[21:40:58] <alex_joni> are you sure you ran G64P<same value> for scenario 2?
[21:41:22] <alex_joni> maybe you just ran G64 (without P argument), then it keeps the speed up, and cuts the corner
[21:41:31] <micges> no for scenario 1
[21:43:00] <alex_joni> I didn't understand that..
[21:44:05] <micges> I ran G64P0.01 for 1 scenario
[21:44:14] <micges> not for 2
[21:46:03] <alex_joni> that will most certainly make the difference you are seeing
[21:46:23] <alex_joni> I bet that if you use G64P0.01 for scenario 2, it will go just as slow
[21:47:44] <micges> ok I check that now
[22:14:29] <micges> scenario 2 : line 600 arcs 600
[22:14:36] <micges> mode G61
[22:15:32] <alex_joni> g61 is exact stop
[22:15:44] <alex_joni> so it should stop between each segments (line & arc, etc)
[22:16:04] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TrajectoryControl
[22:16:27] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed..
[22:16:28] <micges> I know path mode codes
[22:16:37] <alex_joni> micges: maybe cradek knows more about it..
[22:16:44] <micges> ok
[22:16:48] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:16:55] <micges> thanks
[22:17:07] <micges> good night alex
[22:17:16] <BigJohnT> night alex
[22:39:03] <micges> good night all
[23:48:06] <JymmmEMC> Howdy folks!