#emc | Logs for 2008-02-18

[00:00:16] <BigJohnT> looking at the help modules I don't see ttf...
[00:01:19] <jepler> I don't think there's a python ttf module installed by default on ubuntu. If there's an optional one, I'm not sure of the package name.
[00:04:19] <BigJohnT> there is a tkFont module but it returns the family name not the file name AFAIK
[01:31:52] <skunkworks_> whoo - we have flame
[01:32:23] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks_: like 1" flame or like 2 story tall flame?
[01:37:07] <skunkworks_> so far - 1 inch
[01:37:24] <skunkworks_> I should make a frozen pizza - just to see if the oven works.
[01:37:37] <skunkworks_> don't smell gas - so that is good ;)
[01:42:29] <skunkworks_> heh - no frozen pizza
[01:53:37] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/908014
[01:55:22] <jlmjvm> jepler:what would the "net" be for these lines
[01:57:01] <jlmjvm> also is setp still a valid syntax
[01:57:37] <jlmjvm> my old configs were link syntax
[01:58:09] <SWPLinux> setp is still correct, and has nothing to do with connecting signals
[01:58:33] <jlmjvm> k
[01:58:55] <SWPLinux> the net wyntax would be to add a name for each net, and then list all the pins (or some of them anyway) after the net name:
[01:59:13] <skunkworks_> SWPLinux: how goes it at the shop?
[01:59:29] <SWPLinux> net X-enc-phaseA encoder.0.phase-A parport.0.pin-09-in
[01:59:44] <SWPLinux> skunkworks_: going fine - I came into the office because my feet hurt :)
[01:59:56] <skunkworks_> it is hard to stand around all day
[02:00:09] <SWPLinux> we've got the G&L X axis running at 90IPM back and forth
[02:00:23] <SWPLinux> it goes up to 120 IPM, but we get a following error every once in a while
[02:00:52] <SWPLinux> it's doing back and forth moves, 96" in each direction, and hitting indicators at the end
[02:00:52] <eric_U> anyone know how to test to see if a igbt module is alive?
[02:01:07] <SWPLinux> seems to be keeping to within a thou or better
[02:01:08] <DanielFalck> SWPLinux: are you guys in Kansas?
[02:01:13] <SWPLinux> yep
[02:01:26] <DanielFalck> oh boy working on Stuart's giant machine
[02:01:34] <SWPLinux> yes, and it is a giant
[02:01:45] <DanielFalck> can you guys take any pics?
[02:01:46] <SWPLinux> the angle plates weight a ton or two each :)
[02:01:58] <skunkworks_> SWPLinux: dual feedback?
[02:02:00] <eric_U> I thought the angle plate I had was a monster
[02:02:01] <SWPLinux> yep, got a few already, but haven't uploaded them yet
[02:02:17] <DanielFalck> cool
[02:02:17] <SWPLinux> skunkworks_: yes, dual feedback
[02:02:30] <SWPLinux> encoder for motor control, I term using the scale
[02:02:39] <skunkworks_> Does it do what you guys where hoping?
[02:02:43] <DanielFalck> did you guys set him up with his cadcam connection over the network too?
[02:02:57] <SWPLinux> the tracking is very good, possibly excellent
[02:03:02] <skunkworks_> nice
[02:03:33] <SWPLinux> there are some potential issues where you have to restart EMC to recover, but they're bad enough that restarting isn't the biggest problem
[02:03:57] <SWPLinux> DanielFalck: no, the machine had networking already, we're not here to do that
[02:04:54] <tomp> SWPLinux: did you measure a step function to find the open loop acceleration time ? what kind of amps?
[02:05:13] <SWPLinux> nope, old big allen-bradley velocity-mode 3-phase drives
[02:05:16] <DanielFalck> It seemed like he was going to set up NCL to create gcode on the fly for emc over a network connection
[02:05:20] <SWPLinux> 1391B maybe
[02:05:54] <jlmjvm> net X-enc-phaseA encoder.0.phase-A <= parport.0.pin-09-in,shouldnt it have the <= also
[02:06:10] <tomp> do the amps really fight any position/speed changes? ( like belts are tighter than nuns buns ? )
[02:06:25] <SWPLinux> the <= is never significant to halcmd, it's for user hints only
[02:06:39] <SWPLinux> tomp: we don't really know ;)
[02:06:52] <tomp> you can feel that, but you gotta touch it
[02:06:59] <jlmjvm> k
[02:07:03] <tomp> be careful
[02:07:11] <SWPLinux> in fact, we don't really know the drive ratio - we got some weird encoder count ratio (24884 counts/inco or something)
[02:07:13] <SWPLinux> heh
[02:07:31] <SWPLinux> the amps seem well tuned, and that may be a large part of the reason this is working well
[02:07:40] <tomp> if the low level open loop aint tight, the upper level position control loop will suffer
[02:07:44] <SWPLinux> if EMC had to do the velocity loop for real, it might not work as well
[02:08:07] <SWPLinux> oh, the motors stay still when we're not commanding motion
[02:08:16] <tomp> kick the table
[02:08:28] <tomp> old school
[02:08:39] <SWPLinux> the table weighs 10000 pounds or more
[02:08:46] <SWPLinux> kicking isn't very good for the operator
[02:08:56] <tomp> kick the pulley
[02:09:03] <tomp> never mind
[02:09:05] <SWPLinux> I don't know if any of us (or all of us together) can even overcome friction
[02:09:21] <tomp> ? v & flat?
[02:09:41] <SWPLinux> what?
[02:10:02] <tomp> how is the way made ? v & flat, box way, linear guides with tractors?
[02:10:11] <SWPLinux> uh - it's big
[02:10:24] <SWPLinux> it's got hydrostatic bearings, and it looks like more or less box ways
[02:10:34] <SWPLinux> they
[02:10:53] <SWPLinux> they're covered my metal covers that are taken up on rollers as the table moves, so we can't really see them
[02:11:24] <tomp> i've used vertical hydrostatics ( Charmilles ) but not horizontal, so i dunno
[02:11:52] <SWPLinux> this one is interesting - the spindle rides vertically, and is Y
[02:12:01] <jepler> there are some pictures of this thing online -- I think the URL is http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/GandL/pictures/
[02:12:06] <SWPLinux> the table moves in X and W (X on top of W)
[02:12:15] <SWPLinux> and the spindle is z (and is horizontal)
[02:12:52] <tomp> lookin, but net feed is sloooow
[02:13:38] <DanielFalck> that machine is BIG....
[02:13:59] <SWPLinux> yes. I was complaining that I need a wider lens to photograph it from inside the building
[02:14:03] <DanielFalck> I'm glad that Stuart is converting it to EMC2
[02:14:39] <SWPLinux> I think the spindle motor weighs more than an entire Bridgeport machine
[02:14:47] <SWPLinux> it's in the same range anyway
[02:14:58] <tomp> i get the geomtery, i see how Z & W are like a BP knee/quill sideways
[02:15:08] <SWPLinux> yep, sort of
[02:15:21] <SWPLinux> X has 100 inches of travel, 47 on W, I think 100 on Y
[02:15:41] <SWPLinux> and 18 or something insane on the quill
[02:16:06] <skunkworks_> pretty cool
[02:16:16] <DanielFalck> how fast does Stuart want it to rapid? I know you have it up to 90ipm now
[02:16:24] <SWPLinux> 90 IPM ;)
[02:16:24] <tomp> cheezmarie, yeh dont bother pokin at it ;)
[02:16:58] <DanielFalck> he set up a nice pendant/control kiosk
[02:17:10] <SWPLinux> yeah, it swings around nicely
[02:17:20] <DanielFalck> I really like that
[02:17:28] <SWPLinux> it probably needs some limits so you can't swing it into the work envelope
[02:17:30] <skunkworks_> so.. Where are the youtube videos?
[02:17:33] <tomp> horz boring mill, worked on one in taiwan, had a cage for the operator to ride in on the quill
[02:17:36] <SWPLinux> youtube, of course
[02:17:42] <skunkworks_> heh
[02:18:16] <SWPLinux> one of the other machines here is a gantry-type with several bed extensions
[02:18:25] <SWPLinux> when it's put together, it'll have 100 feet of travel
[02:18:40] <SWPLinux> 5-axis I think
[02:19:34] <skunkworks_> the viper?
[02:19:41] <SWPLinux> nope, longer
[02:19:52] <SWPLinux> not as tall or wide though (IIRC)
[02:20:20] <jepler> yeah it was under 6' wide iirc
[02:20:56] <skunkworks_> Nice. Hmmm - a new emc-fest location? maybe a winter - then summer at rolands? ;)
[02:21:03] <SWPLinux> heh
[02:21:16] <SWPLinux> winter would be better in Florida or something
[02:21:24] <jepler> skunkworks_: I'll let you be the one to ask stewart
[02:21:32] <jepler> er, stuart
[02:21:36] <skunkworks_> heh :)
[02:21:49] <SWPLinux> yeah, maybe he'll bring some machines to Florida
[02:23:24] <tomp> i didnt believe it but yeah, hydrostatics are used for some really big masses
[02:23:38] <toastydeath> srs
[02:24:22] <skunkworks_> our mill has recirculating roller bearings for the ways. (kneedle bearings)
[02:24:42] <SWPLinux> that would only be for the knee ;)
[02:24:48] <tomp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_bearing
[02:24:50] <SWPLinux> or gneedle for Ubuntu
[02:24:56] <skunkworks_> heh
[02:25:00] <DanielFalck> hah!
[02:25:16] <skunkworks_> It has been a long day. And my spelling isn't good on a good day
[02:30:10] <skunkworks_> pro-flex gas pipe is pretty nice. easy to install. Just ran about 40 ft of gas line thru the house.
[02:30:17] <skunkworks_> easy
[02:30:28] <SWPLinux> interesting. is that legal in your neck of the woods?
[02:30:48] <skunkworks_> yes - I assume so.. that is what was used to hook our furnace up. ;)
[02:30:53] <SWPLinux> heh
[02:31:29] <SWPLinux> I'm fairly sure that the gas company isn't allowed to connect to pipes that were installed by someone without a license or certificate or something
[02:31:32] <skunkworks_> It is funny.. It says right on the tubing.. 'requires cirtificaton to be purchased'
[02:31:50] <SWPLinux> or maybe the gas company just doesn't like losing the installation business ;)
[02:31:54] <SWPLinux> heh
[02:32:08] <SWPLinux> and yet home depot/lowes carries it :)
[02:32:20] <skunkworks_> it is easier to put togather than most coax ends.. :)
[02:32:21] <gezar> did that guy who was trying to install ever come back?
[02:32:42] <skunkworks_> yes - got it at the local menards
[02:32:56] <SWPLinux> heh - Menards. what a funny thing
[02:33:22] <SWPLinux> very popular in Wisconsin, I think they don't exist elsewhere (except maybe Minn or Il)
[02:33:31] <skunkworks_> yes - pretty local
[02:33:49] <DanielFalck> Iowa and California too
[02:33:52] <jepler> they're in nebraska
[02:33:53] <SWPLinux> I think my wife used to design their sale circulars, until she got sick of it
[02:33:54] <skunkworks_> we have a home depot also in town though. Usually just a little more expensive
[02:34:03] <SWPLinux> oh, I didn't realize they were that widespread
[02:34:14] <skunkworks_> wow
[02:34:15] <SWPLinux> (Menards - I know HD is)
[02:34:25] <skunkworks_> they have a nascar.. ;)
[02:34:41] <skunkworks_> iirc
[02:37:31] <skunkworks_> did a leak test.. shut the gas valve off - wait an hour.. turn burner on. runs for 5 seconds.. same as when it was just shut off
[02:38:06] <skunkworks_> The vavle was verified not to leak.
[02:38:12] <skunkworks_> valve
[02:38:27] <tomp> SWPLinux: what is the interface between pc and amps/io ? I dont recognize the rack of 'eurocard sized cards'
[02:38:42] <SWPLinux> Jon Elson's PPMC system
[02:39:04] <tomp> i thought i saw big dc motors, like sem's
[02:39:20] <tomp> cool, a stepper on that beast
[02:39:21] <SWPLinux> no, they're big-ass Allen Bradley AC servos
[02:39:29] <SWPLinux> which beast are you talking about?
[02:39:46] <SWPLinux> PPMC, not USC :)
[02:39:51] <tomp> the 5inch dia 20 inch long motors
[02:39:54] <SWPLinux> (not even UPC)
[02:40:11] <SWPLinux> hmmm. I don't think there are any motors that narrow ;)
[02:40:34] <tomp> oh, not aware of Jon having non-stepper motor controls...
[02:40:48] <tomp> i just guessed from photo
[02:41:00] <SWPLinux> oh sure - in fact the USC more or less turns a stepper into a velocity servo
[02:41:31] <tomp> ok, so servo is the norm
[02:41:36] <SWPLinux> yep
[02:41:50] <SWPLinux> the USC takes a velocity command and generates steps for that speed
[02:43:06] <tomp> does the motor rotary encoder get back to emc or just the linear scale
[02:43:12] <SWPLinux> noth
[02:43:14] <SWPLinux> both
[02:43:29] <tomp> hmm, elim blash
[02:43:30] <SWPLinux> the encoder is used for a PID that has FF0, P, and D
[02:43:38] <SWPLinux> the scale runs to a PID that has only I
[02:43:50] <SWPLinux> they're summed, and that's sent to the servo drives
[02:44:46] <tomp> 2 PID's for 1 joint/axis (cartesian), bleeding edge!
[02:44:57] <SWPLinux> yes, and it's not without problems
[02:45:34] <SWPLinux> if one encoder loses some counts, they diverge a bit and eventually you get a permanent following error - you need to restart EMC to clear it
[02:45:49] <SWPLinux> though that's a hardware problem anyway ;)
[02:46:07] <tomp> but you hope for great position control with the linear
[02:46:08] <SWPLinux> I think we tried using the scale only, and it sucked very badly
[02:46:14] <SWPLinux> yes, it's a 1 micron scale
[02:46:27] <tomp> 100" 1u = BIG$
[02:46:39] <SWPLinux> there's a few thou of backlash or springiness or something, so that's a big problem
[02:46:47] <SWPLinux> I'm sure, but they're original so no extra $
[02:47:07] <tomp> a few thous is some Nx25 in microns
[02:47:18] <tomp> so lotsa u
[02:47:27] <SWPLinux> yes
[02:47:43] <tomp> great work tho, you are an adventurer!
[02:47:45] <SWPLinux> but if you lose quadrature counts (from either) they'll diverge
[02:47:51] <SWPLinux> heh
[02:48:07] <SWPLinux> there have been so many questions, we just wanted to try it out
[02:48:25] <SWPLinux> and luckily Stuart has about the biggest machine ever made, with the right feedback setup ;)
[02:48:54] <skunkworks_> That is awesome.
[02:49:14] <tomp> what brand scales, i have a Heidenhain tester for the 11uA style
[02:49:21] <SWPLinux> Sony Magnescale
[02:49:21] <skunkworks_> 1 u - .0001?
[02:49:50] <gezar> mm yep
[02:49:52] <SWPLinux> 0.001 mm
[02:50:01] <SWPLinux> 25400 counts / inch
[02:50:06] <gezar> oh just 3
[02:50:15] <SWPLinux> I think they go down to 0.5 actually, but they're set for 1 right now
[02:50:50] <tomp> 1um = .000039yadayadayada inch
[02:51:29] <skunkworks_> yikes. this http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/accupins.JPG + http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=AD2S1200WSTZ-ND will give us .0001
[02:51:34] <skunkworks_> inch
[02:51:46] <SWPLinux> .0001 inch is pretty coarse for a scale
[02:52:17] <SWPLinux> look carefully at the requirements of your resolver
[02:52:43] <SWPLinux> we took a look at the AD2S1200 development board here, and it won't work with just any resolver
[02:52:56] <skunkworks_> yes - I knwo
[02:52:59] <skunkworks_> know
[02:53:31] <skunkworks_> i don't know if it will work or not with these resolver like pins
[02:53:53] <SWPLinux> you need to find out the allowable excitation frequency and signal levels
[02:57:07] <skunkworks_> sounds like it was pretty fruitfull there.
[02:57:33] <SWPLinux> I think so
[02:59:24] <tomp> "if you lose quadrature counts"... dont go nuts before looking at the output with a real analog scope, see that the magnescale output is constant over length, and the rotary is constant over a few revolutions. ( and directions, no sloppy reader heads/pickups )
[03:00:15] <jepler> tomp: unfortunately, nobody brought the test equipment that we would have done that with
[03:00:30] <jepler> everyone *did* say, "oh, I could have brought a scope"
[03:00:58] <jepler> though actually we found a working scope (10MHz though) I don't know if we'll have the time or motivation to do that
[03:05:30] <skunkworks_> we have a b&k 10mhz scope. It definatly has fixed quite a few things
[03:06:05] <SWPLinux> we did back and forth moves over 96", and got repeatability (as indicated by - er - a pair of indicators) to within ~1 thou
[03:06:29] <SWPLinux> they have different counts/inch
[03:06:30] <toastydeath> that is pretty snazzy for 96"
[03:09:20] <tomp> yeh 1 in 10000
[03:09:33] <SWPLinux> 100000
[03:09:35] <SWPLinux> :)
[03:09:37] <tomp> yeh!
[03:16:49] <skunkworks_> jmk-wvm: Hey!
[03:17:00] <jmk-wvm> hey yourself
[03:17:55] <skunkworks_> I am sure you know this - your site is down.
[03:18:11] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/range.JPG little messy - but getting there.
[03:18:41] <tomp> ooh pretty, shiny
[03:18:56] <skunkworks_> and yes - a goblet of wine.
[03:18:58] <skunkworks_> ;)
[03:58:25] <jlmjvm> enc_core_stepper.hal:32: pin 'encoder.0.position' does not exist
[04:29:01] <eric_U> gmail said one of the files I sent to someone has a virus in it
[04:29:07] <eric_U> will not let me download
[04:35:19] <Unit41> yes
[04:36:24] <Unit41> usually any exe will be treated as a virus ?
[04:36:47] <eric_U> must be, but I'm trying to think of why there would be a exe in there
[04:36:58] <eric_U> cant check because they don't let me
[04:37:48] <Unit41> it might have naked pictures of the president playing with a rubincs cube in there of national sekurty
[04:38:45] <eric_U> if I had those, you would have seen them, or I wouldn't be typing this because I'd be at gitmo
[04:39:54] <eric_U> actually, gmail doesn't let you send executables, can't imagine why they decided it has a virus
[04:47:39] <Unit41> was probably a xls virus or something
[04:48:10] <Unit41> something in ms office or maybe it just had a weird format naming
[04:48:12] <JymmmEMC> gmail doens't allow zip files either
[04:48:32] <JymmmEMC> you have to rename the extension.... .EXE to .XEX as example
[04:48:50] <eric_U> I thought you could have zip files, but no exe in there
[04:48:58] <eric_U> I usually use tgz
[06:13:47] <SkinnypuppY34> http://imagebin.org/14101 http://imagebin.org/14102 http://imagebin.org/14103 http://imagebin.org/14104
[06:13:58] <SkinnypuppY34> Tonights EMC fun
[06:23:40] <DanielFalck> cool
[06:29:41] <SkinnypuppY34> Used a 1/4 " endmill pretty good tolerance the slots came out .505 instead of .5 dead on . Not bad for ~ .010 b.l. on acme screws
[06:54:18] <JymmmEMC> SkinnypuppY34: hint hint nudge nudge http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4181
[06:54:44] <JymmmEMC> or http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4182
[06:55:18] <JymmmEMC> SkinnypuppY34: is that steel or aluminum?
[06:55:25] <SkinnypuppY34> 12l14 butter
[06:55:39] <JymmmEMC> ?
[06:56:15] <JymmmEMC> looks nice
[06:56:41] <SkinnypuppY34> 12 L 14 off ebay . Thanks !
[06:56:51] <JymmmEMC> SkinnypuppY34: is that steel or aluminum?
[06:57:13] <SkinnypuppY34> Leaded steel , screw machine stuff
[06:57:18] <JymmmEMC> ah
[06:57:40] <SkinnypuppY34> much better finish than 1018
[06:58:39] <SkinnypuppY34> I'd been using a can of koolit to keep the tool sharp damn chips wouldn't brush off
[06:59:37] <JymmmEMC> How could they, you dont have a chip brush left =)
[07:00:00] <SkinnypuppY34> Oh that one .... it's more of the nasty broom
[07:00:09] <JymmmEMC> lol
[07:01:26] <SkinnypuppY34> There's a ballscrew on fleebay I can use for my spindle, I'm determined to win it if I have to eat shoe laces for a while ... I gotta have some Z
[07:02:21] <JymmmEMC> Just remember to boycott ebay for a bit http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/15/smbusiness/ebay_strike_update.fsb/index.htm?cnn=yes
[07:02:45] <SkinnypuppY34> I won't be selling anything there for a while...
[07:04:20] <SkinnypuppY34> I wish craigslist would do a free store alternative to ebay that would attract more listers there
[07:08:57] <SkinnypuppY34> http://cgi.ebay.com/Quick-Change-Tool-Post-Taig-Sherline-Atlas-7-9-lathe_W0QQitemZ220202812985QQihZ012QQcategoryZ45019QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[07:09:11] <SkinnypuppY34> How nice of em to include the prints ...
[12:11:38] <jlmjvm> BigJohnT:were you able to get the tlo.py to work
[14:49:35] <jlmjvm> jepler:can you take a peek at this,im not getting any errors,emc will turn on and can see the bits change in hal show
[14:49:40] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/908487
[14:51:43] <jlmjvm> but it gives an immediate joint following error,alredy swapped the a and b phase,same result
[14:55:36] <jlmjvm> im pretty sure before i could move the motor and see it on the readout when the drives were off,no change on the readout now,but i can see the a and b phase lights change in hal show
[15:06:31] <Guest339> Guest339 is now known as skunkworks
[15:07:33] <jlmjvm_> hello world
[15:13:05] <skunkworks> heh - say - taking a quick look at your hal file - it doesn't look like your encoder counter is hooked to anything.. (except the physical encoder pins in the printer port)
[15:13:22] <skunkworks> do you have your original hal file that worked in 2.1whatever
[15:13:35] <jlmjvm_> it was a 2.1.7 file
[15:14:03] <jlmjvm_> i can paste it
[15:16:47] <jlmjvm_> http://pastebin.ca/908514
[15:16:53] <skunkworks> * skunkworks isn't a hal expert. I just play one on tv.
[15:17:57] <jlmjvm_> the old file was for the z axis,im using the x axis now
[15:22:31] <skunkworks> 22. linksp Zpos-fb <= encoder.0.position 114. linksp Zpos-fb => axis.2.motor-pos-fb
[15:23:33] <skunkworks> your not doing the similar with net X-encoder-fb <= encoder.0.position in the new hal file
[15:28:17] <skunkworks> morning
[15:32:04] <jlmjvm_> got any ideas
[15:32:30] <jlmjvm_> i changed it to net X-pos-fb <= encoder.0.position and same result
[15:39:39] <skunkworks> it should be Xpos-fb
[15:39:49] <skunkworks> unless you changed it further down
[15:41:01] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is winging it
[15:43:16] <jlmjvm_> i appreciate your help,been winging it most of the night
[15:44:36] <jlmjvm_> net X-pos-fb <= encoder.0.position,is that what you meant
[15:45:17] <skunkworks> yes - should be xpos-fb
[15:45:24] <skunkworks> (-) issue
[15:46:02] <skunkworks> down in your hal file is this line net Xpos-fb => axis.0.motor-pos-fb
[15:46:46] <skunkworks> which is what your trying to hook the encoder postion to. (if I understand it) and X-pos-fb <> Xpos-fb
[15:53:01] <jlmjvm_> http://pastebin.ca/908547
[15:53:08] <jlmjvm_> thats what i have now
[16:00:54] <archivist> stepper with encoders?
[16:06:46] <micges> hi all
[16:07:37] <micges> anyone attempted to make laser beam shape compensation on EMC ?
[16:08:15] <micges> logger_emc: bookmark
[16:08:15] <micges> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-02-18.txt
[16:08:49] <DanielFalck> micges: are you working on some CAM routines for linux?
[16:10:00] <micges> no
[16:10:12] <DanielFalck> ok, sorry was thinking of someone else
[16:10:37] <micges> ok
[16:11:31] <jlmjvm_> archivist:yes
[16:12:29] <archivist> jlmjvm_, then allow enough error to avoid joint following error
[16:13:34] <jlmjvm_> thats not the problem,the display isnt showing encoder movement
[16:13:57] <archivist> ah then connection problem
[16:14:11] <archivist> or hal file
[16:14:27] <jlmjvm_> im sure its in the hal file
[16:15:52] <jlmjvm_> connection is good,i can boot up in mach,move encoder and see dro move,did that to double check the connection
[16:17:40] <jlmjvm_> can also see the pins in hal when i move it
[16:18:08] <jlmjvm_> but its not getting to the dro
[16:21:36] <jlmjvm_> SWPLinux:could you take a look at this if you get a minute http://pastebin.ca/908547
[16:24:03] <jlmjvm_> line 24 and 114,115
[16:25:56] <skunkworks> Wow - the gangs all here. :)
[16:26:14] <cradek> hi skunkworks
[16:28:56] <skunkworks> you guys are still there?
[16:29:11] <cradek> yep, but not for much longer
[16:29:15] <skunkworks> heh
[16:29:20] <skunkworks> normal life calls
[16:30:28] <bill20r3> stupid life.
[16:46:49] <SWPLinux> jlmjvm_: two problems with those lines:
[16:47:00] <jlmjvm_> whatcha got
[16:47:08] <SWPLinux> 1) the newsig command on line 114 shouldn't be needed, since the signal is created on line 24
[16:47:48] <jlmjvm_> k
[16:47:53] <SWPLinux> 2) the name is misspelled on line 115 - it's X-pos-fb on line 24, and Xpos-fb on lines 114/115
[16:48:56] <skunkworks> <skunkworks> which is what your trying to hook the encoder postion to. (if I understand it) and X-pos-fb <> Xpos-fb
[16:49:05] <skunkworks> ;)
[16:49:14] <jlmjvm_> that worked
[16:53:05] <jlmjvm_> its definately working
[16:53:37] <SWPLinux> ok, goo
[16:53:39] <SWPLinux> d
[16:55:59] <jlmjvm_> now i can start straighting up the cabinet,was looking pretty good yesterday,looks like a birds nest right now
[16:57:15] <jlmjvm_> really appreciate the help guys
[17:00:10] <jlmjvm_> SWPLinux:didnt you tell me once upon a time that i could possibly have latency issues with an onboard parport and a pci parport
[17:01:04] <jlmjvm_> i can get a dual pci parport and turn off the onboard if you think it would be better
[17:02:46] <skunkworks> I think it has been shown that pci printer ports are a little bit faster than the internal ones. but I am sure it is computer dependant.
[17:04:17] <jlmjvm_> seems like the dual could possibly work better since it would be matched,but figured i would ask first
[17:06:20] <SWPLinux> it will take more time to read/write multiple parports
[17:06:37] <SWPLinux> one thing you should try to do is use one port for input and another for output
[17:06:53] <SWPLinux> that might save a couple of accesses (and it might not be all that important anyway)
[17:06:54] <jlmjvm_> will do
[17:08:45] <jlmjvm_> do you think it would be worth 25 bucks to try the dual pci and turn the onboard off
[17:10:09] <jlmjvm_> should have another computer put together tomorrow,it may work better
[17:10:27] <jlmjvm_> will try it first
[17:11:18] <jlmjvm_> it will be a different chipset and a faster cpu
[17:15:07] <jlmjvm_> will holler back later,gonna hook up the other encoders and fix this birdnest,thanks again
[17:33:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPLinux: Hey, do you have any P3 slot1 > 600MHz and => 512 cache?
[17:33:24] <JymmmEMC> cpu's
[18:24:22] <skunkworks> Mmmmmmm http://www.electronicsam.com/images/866mhzyum.JPG
[18:24:58] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/866mhz.JPG
[18:26:46] <archivist> what the new scope or your feet or the pc
[18:27:40] <skunkworks> your supposed to do the math.. :) 40khz
[18:28:42] <skunkworks> shoes are old
[18:29:04] <archivist> maths!!!! hell no /me watching his first steel pinion being cut on the machine
[18:29:17] <skunkworks> heh - cool
[18:30:13] <archivist> too much vibration to have camera on it at the moment
[18:31:13] <archivist> I had to cut one to see possible problems :))
[19:00:49] <tomp2> a guy just asked for a tapered hole 23 feet long in a forged tube that is 12" OD with a 9" to 3" ID. he wanted to WEDM it, and hold a .01" tolerance over the 21 foot. I said no can do. the deflection of the wire just from the discharge would be more than .01"
[19:02:07] <tomp2> one of many things that just wouldnt work over that len
[19:04:02] <bill20r3> riiiight
[19:04:15] <bill20r3> I wonder what he thinks he needs that for.
[19:04:35] <tomp2> wouldnt say ;)
[19:04:57] <bill20r3> I bet it's something that he didn't really need that for.
[19:11:16] <quiteBIGeye> is it just me or does that sound like a really big gunbarrell?
[19:12:28] <archivist> guns dont have tapers like that as far as I know
[19:12:28] <tomp2> yeh, tapered bullets :)
[19:12:57] <archivist> sounds more process oriented
[19:13:16] <tomp2> he sent a print with info covered up, and sez he can get a contract for 'several' just too wacky
[19:13:33] <quiteBIGeye> * quiteBIGeye thinks it sounds mad...
[19:14:04] <archivist> I saw some silly small WEDM at a show last week
[19:15:00] <quiteBIGeye> whats wedm?
[19:15:26] <archivist> wire electric disharge machining
[19:16:20] <quiteBIGeye> ahh.. we got one of those, but didn't know the englisk name for it... pretty difrerent in swedish :O)
[19:17:14] <archivist> woot gear to size /me can go out to lay now
[19:17:17] <archivist> play
[19:17:32] <tomp2> whats the word in swedisk: like erodieren? funk erodieren?
[19:17:40] <tomp2> swedish sorry
[19:39:17] <Vq^> gnisterosion?
[19:39:53] <Vq^> "gnistning" seems to be a more common name
[19:46:25] <quiteBIGeye> tnx Vq^ '
[20:41:44] <Jymmmm> yo ppl
[20:43:45] <skunkworks> Jymmmm: Yo
[20:43:50] <skunkworks> how goes it?
[20:44:37] <Jymmmm> it goes sotoing at the bar waoitng for food and having my brakes worked on
[20:44:50] <skunkworks> Jymmmm: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/house/range.JPG
[20:45:24] <Jymmmm> I can't look atm, oncellphone
[20:46:05] <Jymmmm> ircing that is
[20:46:45] <skunkworks> oh - then never mind. just a picture of the new range in the unfinished kitchen
[20:47:05] <skunkworks> I was wondering why your typing sucked ;)
[20:47:14] <Jymmmm> ah very cool ill look when I get home
[20:47:49] <skunkworks> also - a 40khz pulse train out of emc on a 866mhz pentium III http://www.electronicsam.com/images/866mhzyum.JPG
[20:49:18] <Jymmmm> bastard
[20:49:39] <skunkworks> it has been running all morning.. no latency errors
[20:49:56] <DanielFalck> parallel port?
[20:49:58] <Jymmmm> see above
[20:49:58] <skunkworks> yes
[20:50:38] <skunkworks> DanielFalck: actual computer http://www.electronicsam.com/images/866mhz.JPG
[20:50:40] <Jymmmm> I'm jealous
[20:50:46] <skunkworks> some compaq of some sort
[20:50:58] <skunkworks> deskpro - one of those mini cases
[20:51:25] <DanielFalck> what did you have to do to get to that point?
[20:52:19] <Jymmmm> sacrafise a kid
[20:52:24] <skunkworks> nothing - other than turning off 'power saving' in the bios. Just a dapper install and emc 2.2.3
[20:52:35] <DanielFalck> great
[20:52:51] <Jymmmm> what is the max lat?
[20:52:54] <skunkworks> used the step_conf - which worked great by the way - thanks jepler.
[20:53:24] <skunkworks> I would have to check.. It was between 10-15 iirc
[20:53:31] <skunkworks> us
[20:53:39] <Jymmmm> cool
[20:53:57] <skunkworks> with the 'power saving' on - it would climb to 50us
[20:54:54] <Jymmmm> I have a dell dsktp with nothing on board and I get about 16
[20:55:36] <skunkworks> what are you hoping to get?
[20:55:45] <Jymmmm> going to try headless and see what it gives
[20:56:11] <Jymmmm> under 10 and I'd be happy
[20:56:52] <skunkworks> that is hard.
[20:57:18] <skunkworks> I don't see many under 10 - that I have played with. (I don't really 'tweek' them though)
[20:57:20] <Jymmmm> I know but I might be able to headless
[20:57:48] <skunkworks> maybe.. I have never tried it.
[20:58:07] <Jymmmm> doubtfu but I'm going to try
[20:58:32] <skunkworks> This one stays under 10 for a long time.
[20:58:50] <skunkworks> but I know it goes over after a while
[20:59:10] <Jymmmm> we really need a hw db
[20:59:58] <Jymmmm> of what mobos work good or bad for that matter
[20:59:58] <skunkworks> yah
[21:00:20] <skunkworks> there is a place for it on the wiki.. but I never remember to add to it.
[21:01:04] <Jymmmm> I always have trouble adding to a page that already exists
[21:09:54] <quiteBIGeye> i have a question about the traj planner do i ask it here or in som other like "dev" chanel if there is such
[21:10:28] <Jymmmm> either
[21:11:19] <skunkworks> ask - some one might know. Right now a lot of the developers are traveling.
[21:12:02] <quiteBIGeye> okay, well my question is this: if i have an axis that is much slower than the rest, how do i make the machine go full speed when that axis is not in motion.
[21:13:09] <quiteBIGeye> my machine at work tops out at 12m/min one axis but i can go mych faster if i use 2 or 3 ""word... axeses?? ""
[21:13:19] <Jymmmm> that doesn't make sense... Each axis can be congiured independantly
[21:14:02] <Jymmmm> oh nm me
[21:15:04] <quiteBIGeye> but each axis needs a "headstart" over the traj planner... right?
[21:16:15] <quiteBIGeye> so if i have like speed 2 on one axis and like 100 on all other i would have to set the traj to below the lowest...
[21:17:24] <skunkworks> Yes - it will go as fast as the slowest axis - (on multi axis moves)
[21:18:20] <Jymmmm> isn't that based on what gcode its running?
[21:18:30] <skunkworks> emc takes care of it. it will obey the constraints of each individual axis.
[21:20:14] <quiteBIGeye> but if the traj speed is set to higher speed than the slowest axis i get at lot of faults, some thing like "axis following fault"
[21:20:49] <Jymmmm> that makes sense
[21:21:53] <Jymmmm> its been configured todo one set of settings and it sounds like you are telling it to break the speed limit
[21:22:18] <Jymmmm> so to speak
[21:22:56] <Jymmmm> swampy!!!!
[21:23:41] <quiteBIGeye> exactly, so.... i have a sneaking fealing that the z axis on our next machine will be quite slow... and i don't wan't to run the whole machine on half speed...
[21:24:25] <Jymmmm> can you improve the z on the other macine?
[21:25:45] <skunkworks> then there is something wrong.. It should not be a problem.
[21:25:48] <quiteBIGeye> well, yea, but that is not the point... as soon as you ues more than one axis it's mad to not use full speed...
[21:26:36] <skunkworks> The traj section is usually set to sqr(velx^2+vely^2+Velz^2)
[21:27:22] <Jymmmm> you can't ask granny holding hands with 3 5year olds to run as fast as them
[21:28:10] <quiteBIGeye> hmm, will have a talk with Vq^ about that, because we can't get it to run stable if we have traj set to more than the slowes axis...
[21:28:22] <skunkworks> odd.
[21:28:31] <Vq^> im not sure
[21:28:51] <SWPLinux> you should be able to set the traj limit to infinity and still have a stable machine
[21:28:52] <quiteBIGeye> Vq^: välkommen
[21:28:59] <Vq^> i got the impression that the traj-planner ran ahead of the axis then
[21:29:06] <SWPLinux> or something very very large, like 100000
[21:29:08] <SWPLinux> no
[21:29:16] <Vq^> SWPLinux: ok, then we have done something else wrong
[21:29:22] <Vq^> thats good to hear
[21:29:26] <quiteBIGeye> hurray
[21:29:33] <SWPLinux> coordinated motion is limited by the requested feedrate, the traj limit, and eaxh axis limit
[21:29:38] <SWPLinux> heh
[21:29:41] <Vq^> quiteBIGeye: not that good, we have still got an error
[21:29:42] <SWPLinux> each
[21:29:55] <SWPLinux> I missed the part about what actually happens :)
[21:30:26] <quiteBIGeye> but it says something like "to avoid axis following error, the axises have to have a little headroom over traj"
[21:30:39] <quiteBIGeye> i read somthing like 5 - 10%
[21:31:05] <skunkworks> SWPLinux: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/866mhzyum.JPG
[21:32:05] <skunkworks> your probably talking about stepgen headroom. the stepgen vel has to be a little higher than the axis velocity for that axis
[21:32:32] <SWPLinux> right
[21:33:21] <quiteBIGeye> Vq^: is that what i'm going on about and not realizing it?
[21:33:36] <SWPLinux> since each axis can move as fast as its own limit (in [AXIS_n] sections), but stepgen may need to "catch up" with a new velocity command, it needs to be able to go a little faster than the fastest rate you actually expect to need
[21:33:46] <Vq^> "We have discovered that it needs to have a little "headroom" over the accel by the trajectory planner, otherwise it can fall slightly behind during accel and later overshoot as it catches up."
[21:33:57] <SWPLinux> it's more like you have to reduce the limit in the AXIS sections, not that you have to add a little for stepgen
[21:34:22] <SWPLinux> that's the axis accel though (or TRAJ, whichever is lower)
[21:35:34] <skunkworks> accel - thats it :)
[21:35:39] <Jymmmm> one of these days ill have tp figure that out
[21:35:48] <Jymmmm> err to
[21:36:02] <Vq^> quiteBIGeye: guess we will have to try and increase the traj-plan vel
[21:36:12] <quiteBIGeye> yea, like maad :)
[21:36:22] <Vq^> heh
[21:37:06] <quiteBIGeye> Vq^: feel free to do your *1000 increments :P
[21:37:14] <Jymmmm> lol
[21:40:49] <Vq^> is it acceptable to have a higher traj acc as well?
[21:42:22] <skunkworks> Jymmmm: been running for a good hour or more.. 11us jitter
[21:45:00] <skunkworks> does that work the same? I wonder - trajaccel = sqr(accx+accy+accz) ?
[21:45:28] <skunkworks> oops sqr(accx^2+accy^2+accz^2)
[21:45:29] <Vq^> from a purely physical standpoint, yes
[21:45:44] <skunkworks> then that is what I would set the traj section to.
[21:45:55] <Vq^> ok, thanks
[21:55:47] <SWPLinux> you can set the TRAJ limits as high as you want, the AXIS_N limits will supersede the TRAJ limits
[21:55:52] <SWPLinux> assuming there are no bugs :)
[21:57:07] <quiteBIGeye> goodnight yall!
[22:25:47] <tomp2> thanks Vq^ for gnistning ( handy for web searches, if you know the process name in various languages, I find lots more with elettroerosine & funkerodieren than with just 'edm' )
[22:41:57] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:42:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni will be travelling the next couple of days..
[23:10:31] <JymmmEMC> Would anyone be interested in some P3 motherboards? http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/server/l440gx/
[23:11:43] <JymmmEMC> Would anyone be interested in some P3 motherboards? http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/server/l440gx/ and http://www.tyan.com/archive/products/html/thunderlet.html