#emc | Logs for 2008-02-08

[00:13:46] <dmess> hi all.. alpha... do you ski??
[00:13:53] <BigJohnT> so where did Gamma-X go?
[00:15:47] <BigJohnT> dmess: you a fanuc guy?
[00:17:26] <Jymmmm> Hola!
[00:26:16] <skunkworks> * skunkworks ski's
[00:26:41] <Jymmmm> skunkworks: Never touch the stuff
[00:27:26] <Jymmmm> Though, this safety relay is very cool =)
[00:28:03] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: WAKE UP! You wrecked wench of a Romanian!
[00:28:58] <dmess> can be a fanuc guy.. whats required??
[00:29:15] <Jymmmm> dmess: A pot of gold
[00:29:35] <dmess> the question??
[00:29:49] <dmess> im a cheap slut
[00:30:01] <Jymmmm> I'm easy, just not cheap =)
[00:30:28] <dmess> like i... but in here im free
[00:30:38] <Jymmmm> lol
[00:31:23] <dmess> dont look st me in that tone of voice... i just LOVE yur eyes... ; )
[00:31:34] <Jymmmm> s/love/lust/
[00:31:52] <dmess> LOL
[00:32:11] <Jymmmm> Is that a crowbar in your pants or are you just happy to see me
[00:32:39] <dmess> crowbar is in the toolbox...
[00:32:57] <Jymmmm> hopefully not just collecting dust
[00:33:55] <dmess> nay used it on the wifes truck recently.... wont admit to it though.. DAMN kids in this 'hood
[00:35:22] <dmess> i call it anger manegment MORE properly directed..... opps i never said that...
[00:36:23] <dmess> BigJohnT... fanuc question?? please ask
[00:37:40] <skunkworks> I have only been out skiing once this year
[00:38:27] <skunkworks> good year for it here. Lots of snwo
[00:38:29] <skunkworks> snow
[00:39:33] <skunkworks> this is where we go - few miles away. http://www.mtlacrosse.com/
[00:39:43] <skunkworks> our little ski hill.
[00:39:47] <dmess> ive been out 5 times now... skied 5 times in the previous 8-10 yrs
[00:40:19] <skunkworks> heh. I am a down hill skiier - never understood the cross country thing :)
[00:40:54] <dmess> nor i.. other than getting drunk on skinny skis...
[00:41:03] <skunkworks> heh
[00:41:59] <dmess> i ran a hill similar to that 509 vert...
[00:43:38] <dmess> i went and purchased new skis.. tech ask what do you usually ski casual on... i replied... 195 cm.... he answers... DUDE.. they aint made ANYTHING that long for years...
[00:44:16] <skunkworks> heh - I am still using my 191cm pencil skis from around 95.
[00:44:41] <skunkworks> my father has shaped skis and that really helped him
[00:44:45] <dmess> im on 164 cm's that ski like a dream... think control
[00:45:31] <skunkworks> when I put his skis on - I fall over. They turn way sharper with little effort. it would take me a while to get used to them.
[00:47:06] <dmess> i have a pair of HEAD radials i got for $20.00 cunuck with Tyrolia bindings i still like to blast on... have 215's ... VR 27 racing skis from when it didn't matter if i got hurt ERA
[00:48:04] <skunkworks> heh - I couldn't tell you what my boots are. they where bought used about 15 years ago. The skis are atomic iirc
[00:48:10] <dmess> i ended up in trees... MY 1st run on these NEW HEAD's.. i carved.. they TURNED... into the trees...
[00:48:19] <skunkworks> heh
[00:48:39] <dmess> atomic are always good skis
[00:48:58] <skunkworks> served me well.
[00:49:11] <dmess> the VR's with boot was 19 lb's per side
[00:49:11] <skunkworks> (got my money out of them)
[00:49:49] <skunkworks> do you have hills close to you?
[00:49:49] <dmess> planted to the planet and can only oint them DOWN
[00:50:17] <dmess> i can be skiing in 1/2 hour if we have sno
[00:50:39] <skunkworks> nice. our hill is about 40mins away.
[00:50:58] <skunkworks> isn't that far but you have to drive thru lacrosse which takes forever
[00:51:00] <dmess> from work 20 minutes
[00:52:41] <dmess> i asked if someone would pull the fire alarm just so we could all go out and have a snowball fight after our 12" / 31 cm of snow dump yesterday... and i had no backup...
[00:53:13] <dmess> another pristene opertunity missed
[00:53:47] <dmess> spontanious enjoyment out of a day at work
[00:53:47] <skunkworks> heh just a bit south of us got hit hard. 20+ inches of snow
[00:54:08] <dmess> we got 12 on Friday last
[00:54:13] <skunkworks> This winter has been good snow wise. Lots of it.
[00:54:53] <dmess> thats why i bought skis and the boy a sled.... i'm just good luck
[00:55:05] <skunkworks> it has stayed cold. last few years we would get snow - then it would warm up enough to melt it all
[00:55:53] <dmess> it was +8 degrees C on tuesday here... my creek was near breaching...
[00:56:50] <dmess> the temp is up and down like a new brides undies...
[00:57:14] <skunkworks> heh - been pretty cold here.
[00:57:24] <skunkworks> bbl - I need to do some plastering.
[02:00:26] <tomp> nasa tech briefs: 'variable freq drives produce peak voltages in the motor shaft that can reach 70V, as seen in the scope trace' often discharging thru bearings. solution: a microfiber conductive ring shunting discharges to gnd. ( static straps! :)
[02:01:14] <skunkworks> interesting
[02:03:10] <jmkasunich> one of the joys of my life
[02:03:17] <jmkasunich> customers don't like fried bearings
[02:04:00] <tomp> they said the potential has to overcome the grease. maybe a higher dielectric strength?
[02:04:22] <jmkasunich> bearing currents are black magic
[02:04:43] <tomp> ( the damage is EDM )
[02:05:26] <jmkasunich> the problem is that the thickness of the grease layer approaches zero
[02:05:56] <jmkasunich> we have a few tricks in the drive to attempt to reduce common mode voltage and shaft voltage
[02:06:23] <jmkasunich> some customers use insulated bearing mounts, or ceramic bearing balls
[02:17:40] <skunkworks> I suppose a lot of the equipment is belt driven? Other wise you would have issues with bearing down stream?
[02:18:07] <skunkworks> I suppose not much equipment is direct - solid coupled.
[02:18:07] <jmkasunich> yeah, insulating the bearings can sometimes just move the problem
[02:18:19] <jmkasunich> some flex couplers conduct, some don't
[02:18:22] <dmess> ceramics are great till you bonk em then they tic
[02:18:48] <jmkasunich> my experience with VFDs and bearing currents is that only some small fraction of motors actually have problems
[02:19:10] <dmess> me too
[02:19:14] <tomp> if of any use... sparks are voltage based, the current shouldnt matter.
[02:20:01] <tomp> breakdown strength is voltage
[02:20:22] <skunkworks> if the center is insulated - do you have problems with it charging up more? then discharge? (static electricity?) or do you never go above a certian percentage of the input voltage?
[02:20:56] <jmkasunich> like I said, there is a certain amount of black magic involved
[02:21:01] <skunkworks> heh
[02:21:17] <jmkasunich> the charge is capacitively coupled from windings to rotor, so its very rare for a DC charge to accumulate
[02:21:45] <jmkasunich> although I did visit a customer site where they had a dc charge on the shaft
[02:21:57] <skunkworks> unbalanced windings?
[02:21:59] <jmkasunich> strangely, it would build up even when the machine was coasting down, with the VFD off
[02:22:42] <skunkworks> I also am assuming - hundreds of hp
[02:22:45] <jmkasunich> the application was a centrifugal chiller, and we speculated that some charge transfer was taking place due to liquid refrigerant droplets charging the compressor impeller
[02:23:17] <skunkworks> yikes
[02:23:28] <jmkasunich> weird ass shit
[02:24:50] <dmess> nice call.. if it was right... :)
[02:25:28] <jmkasunich> we have no idea if it was or not
[02:25:35] <dmess> 2 or 3 of those and you hve another career
[02:25:40] <jmkasunich> we installed a shaft grounding brush, and called it donw
[02:25:42] <jmkasunich> done
[02:25:59] <jmkasunich> I get involved in some weird things
[02:26:08] <jmkasunich> like the trip I just came back from
[02:26:16] <jmkasunich> chillers in a major data center
[02:26:22] <tomp> that was the nasa solution, a grounding bush
[02:26:27] <skunkworks> how was the dc charge figured out? someone touched it? or was it causing other problems
[02:26:37] <jmkasunich> they were having bearing issues
[02:26:40] <skunkworks> ah
[02:26:44] <tomp> bearing damage, they saw pitting
[02:26:46] <jmkasunich> so we went there and instrumented the shaft
[02:27:22] <skunkworks> * skunkworks bets jmkasunich has access to tons of fluke test equipment.
[02:27:34] <jmkasunich> we use fluke dmms
[02:27:40] <dmess> ive been pullin semi solutions out my ASS for the last 3 yrs now...ALL i touch is disaster cases...... MY programs run quite flawlessly....
[02:27:42] <jmkasunich> tek scopes mostly
[02:28:55] <jmkasunich> imagine a building with not one, but FOUR computer rooms, each about 100 x 250 feet
[02:29:08] <dmess> siu
[02:29:10] <dmess> si
[02:29:16] <jmkasunich> 25 megawatts of diesel generators for backup power
[02:29:36] <dmess> sounds like camp
[02:29:46] <jmkasunich> camp?
[02:29:59] <dmess> OK its 2.5 Mw
[02:30:21] <dmess> thats what we call our cottage
[02:30:33] <jmkasunich> thats a big cottage
[02:31:42] <dmess> dad didnt screw around... we've add gen set and solar panels along the way
[02:31:59] <dmess> its HOME in the woods..
[02:32:08] <jmkasunich> 2.5Mw is a fscking huge generator
[02:32:10] <SWPadnos> 2.5 MW is roughly 3500 HP
[02:32:18] <skunkworks> 2.5kw?
[02:32:21] <jmkasunich> (like, enough for 50 to 100 normal houses)
[02:32:44] <dmess> ok maybe not that.. but self sustaining..
[02:32:57] <SWPadnos> that could be 2.5W ;)
[02:33:25] <jmkasunich> this place has 12 generators, at 2.1Mw each
[02:33:37] <jmkasunich> 6 air conditionining chillers, 900 tons each
[02:33:54] <jmkasunich> everything is redundant
[02:34:10] <jmkasunich> I think they only need 4 gensets and 2 chillers to run the place
[02:34:14] <dmess> it could be.. but considering they didnt run it for 8 weeks.... im thinking the solar panels are working well
[02:35:29] <skunkworks> our company has 2 generators that will run the whole place. No redundancy though. I would have to ask how much. we get a reduced rate durring peak because the power company can switch us to generators if needed.
[02:35:31] <dmess> wow... but thats a lab of sorts
[02:36:21] <jmkasunich> dmess: its a data-center
[02:36:27] <skunkworks> come to think of it - I think we used to run off of generators durring peak because it was cheaper for us.
[02:36:28] <jmkasunich> thousands of servers
[02:36:50] <dmess> we have gen sets too... but could NEVER run all the machines
[02:37:03] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, reducing peak demand can make the cost of all power used during the month lower
[02:37:14] <SWPadnos> they up the rate if the peak goes too high
[02:37:20] <skunkworks> yes
[02:37:36] <dmess> true..
[02:37:46] <dmess> bbl
[04:28:39] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos:
[04:52:10] <eric_U> my boss says his laptop doesn't work, can I look at it?
[04:52:24] <eric_U> I look at it, it's got coke all over the inside
[04:52:27] <eric_U> outside is clean
[04:52:45] <eric_U> too clean
[04:52:55] <LawrenceG> dishwasher clean?
[04:53:16] <eric_U> then the coke would be gone I think
[04:53:44] <LawrenceG> that coke sure does make a sticky mess of keyboards
[04:53:58] <LawrenceG> I have been lucky so far
[04:54:04] <eric_U> there were blue spots on the metal piece that holds the hard drive like it got incredibly hot
[04:55:21] <LawrenceG> li battery meltdown in the past?
[04:55:46] <eric_U> not that I know of,
[04:56:08] <eric_U> I suspect a power supply failure because of coke
[04:57:13] <eric_U> I'll have to take it further apart tomorrow
[04:57:22] <LawrenceG> Jymmmm: you about?
[05:02:22] <LawrenceG> Jymmmm: http://filebin.ca/xptppv/ve7it-map.ngc if you send me your long/lat I can generate one for you
[05:09:09] <LawrenceG> anyone else need a great circle map to machine?
[05:09:16] <eric_U> sure
[05:09:43] <LawrenceG> do you know your longitude and latitude? gps?
[05:09:55] <eric_U> no
[05:10:11] <LawrenceG> can you find your town on google earth?
[05:10:33] <eric_U> can't you figure it out from google maps?
[05:11:04] <LawrenceG> I am not sure... where do you live?
[05:13:34] <eric_U> 40º47'32.35"N, Longitude 77º52'16.11"W
[05:14:20] <LawrenceG> this will take a couple of minutes.... Do you want a name or town label on it?
[05:14:32] <eric_U> no
[05:15:16] <LawrenceG> ok... I'll get working on it...
[05:24:41] <LawrenceG> eric_U: http://filebin.ca/abmsxk/map-ericu.ngc
[05:26:44] <LawrenceG> cool... it sure changes when you are on the east coast!
[05:27:39] <LawrenceG> if you want to machine it on the bacl of a piece of plexy, you go into the gcode file and set the x scale negative and it will flip the image over
[05:28:14] <eric_U> thanks
[05:28:55] <LawrenceG> It should run in the axis preview... there are some params in the from of the gcode file if you want it bigger or smaller
[05:29:14] <LawrenceG> from/front/
[05:29:40] <eric_U> I'll play with it
[05:30:08] <LawrenceG> machine some silver dollars!
[05:31:12] <eric_U> good idea
[05:33:30] <LawrenceG> did it open ok for you?
[05:33:48] <eric_U> I can't try it at the moment
[05:34:02] <LawrenceG> no problem... have fun
[05:34:03] <eric_U> moved the mill, and haven't moved the computer yet
[05:34:07] <eric_U> thanks
[05:34:27] <ds2> machine a die and make some
[05:35:18] <LawrenceG> I found a postscript program that makes the maps... hacked it and passed it through pstoedit to make gcode
[05:37:43] <ds2> should write a G code driver for ghostscript!
[05:38:13] <LawrenceG> thats basically what my mod to pstoedit does
[05:38:48] <LawrenceG> it takes a ps or pdf file and makes gcode out of any vector or curves it finds in the file
[05:39:16] <LawrenceG> it uses gs
[05:39:32] <ds2> and I am saying take it one step further and put in gs
[05:40:24] <LawrenceG> possible... emc is just another plotter on steroids.... (sort of)
[05:40:33] <ds2> yep
[05:40:41] <ds2> that's what I use my mill for
[05:40:46] <ds2> raster graphics
[05:40:47] <LawrenceG> my poor brain didnt like trying to figure out postscript
[05:40:59] <ds2> ps is very nice once you get used to it
[05:41:30] <ds2> great for generating complex mathematically defined drawings
[05:42:04] <LawrenceG> it does look powerful
[05:42:52] <LawrenceG> I'll have to see how it works on cad drawings printed to postscript
[05:42:54] <ds2> it is... also useful for drawing plans... easier to cad at times and I can feed it into gs to print out a template for things like punching a chassis
[06:44:41] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: I am now
[10:40:38] <Dibblah> Dibblah is now known as HomeworkDetector
[10:40:43] <HomeworkDetector> HomeworkDetector is now known as Dibblah
[12:40:48] <optimum> 'lo all, anyone here?
[12:41:10] <BigJohnT> for a bit
[12:41:16] <optimum> I can't seem to remember the hal code to output 1 constantly
[12:41:26] <optimum> on a parport pin
[12:41:49] <BigJohnT> something like setp paraport pin 1
[12:42:03] <optimum> setp parport.2.pin-01-out 1 maybe?
[12:42:08] <optimum> hmm ok, looks right
[12:42:12] <BigJohnT> yep
[12:42:18] <optimum> hmm, strange
[12:42:23] <BigJohnT> why
[12:43:44] <optimum> I have a limit switch box, pin 1 is used to drive the transistors in 3 optocouplers and a hex inverter, current use is very low, 3mA when switching between high and low, on an external psu it works, but when plugged into the parport voltages drop to .9V
[12:43:51] <optimum> over the hex inverter
[12:44:48] <BigJohnT> that one is beyond my knowlage base ...
[12:45:02] <optimum> definetly ;)
[12:45:33] <BigJohnT> I'm more into programming and just squeek by on the electronics
[12:46:11] <optimum> oh ok, it's almost like the parport drives the logical high with a pullup resistor
[12:46:19] <optimum> most strange
[12:47:08] <archivist> common/normal for line drivers
[12:48:05] <optimum> hmmm so I ca
[12:48:07] <optimum> crap
[12:48:31] <optimum> hmm so I can't count on using a pin set to high as a "power" line?
[12:48:45] <Vq^> BigJohnT: that makes two of us
[12:49:06] <optimum> I'm using a similar parport card to drive geckos though, they supposedly take up to 20mA
[12:49:56] <optimum> what are the logic levels on the parport, TTL right? is 0.9V within the safe output-high range?
[12:50:59] <Vq^> BIGEye_ has some experience with using optocouplers with parports
[12:51:28] <BIGEye_> Vq^: you rang?
[12:51:29] <fenn> optimum: parports can source more than they sink; i think something like source 5mA sink 20mA
[12:51:36] <Vq^> BIGEye_: indeed i did :)
[12:51:43] <fenn> btw that's for the whole port
[12:52:26] <BIGEye_> well seems like no need for me here :) fenn got this all covered
[12:52:33] <fenn> some parports only give you 3.3V
[12:53:31] <Vq^> fenn: is that within specifications?
[12:53:46] <fenn> dunno
[12:54:02] <fenn> it's TTL compatible
[12:54:52] <fenn> opto's care about current, as long as it's over ~1.2V
[12:57:18] <BIGEye_> to my knowledge optocuplers work just fine driven by the parport, but there may be cases where it just wont do ofc...
[12:57:58] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT gets walked by the dog now
[13:04:44] <optimum> fenn, hmm I see
[13:05:20] <optimum> as it is now I have a hex inverter, which probably doesn't work at the .9V that the parport sources
[13:05:38] <optimum> maybe I should remove it and connect the optocoupler output directly to the parport
[13:06:12] <optimum> the optocouplers are connected with their detector side driven by the parport
[13:06:15] <optimum> not the diode side
[13:07:06] <skunkworks> I have driven quite a few optos directly from the printer port. (inlcuding the ones in parker stepper drives)
[13:10:36] <optimum> it was the hex inverters, they needed at least 2V to function
[13:10:52] <optimum> the optocoupler transistors barely function now ;)
[13:13:04] <optimum> USB is probably better to use for applications where you need some current
[13:13:18] <optimum> you rarely need over 100mA
[13:13:30] <optimum> at least not for logic level things
[13:31:10] <optimum> hmm anyone still here? anyone know of a config with a good sampe
[13:31:25] <optimum> sample limit-switch/home-switch segmet
[13:31:27] <optimum> gah
[13:33:59] <archivist> I have an external supply for logic
[13:37:34] <jepler> "The high-level output voltage shall be at least +2.4 V at a source current of 0.32 mA." "The receiver high-level input sink current shall not exceed 0.32 mA at +2.0 V." -- IEEE-1284 draft specification ftp://ftp.lexmark.com/ieee/1284r/1284d12-rev.pdf electrical characteristics for a "level 1" device
[13:37:42] <tomp> optimum: maybe the emc2 integrator manual section 4.4 will help while you look at config files. Config files arent sorted or known by homing style, so you'll have to know what the idea is whil;e browsing.
[13:39:08] <jepler> (though elsewhere the spec notes that new devices "should" have "level 2" electrical characteristics, Voh 2.4V @ 14mA)
[13:46:31] <optimum> ugh, .32 mA
[13:46:43] <optimum> 14mA is a bit more reasonable
[13:46:54] <SWPadnos> yes, you need a separate power supply for parport-conected devices
[13:47:10] <SWPadnos> note also that Voh is only guaranteed to be 2.4V
[13:47:33] <optimum> tomp, I was thinking along the lines of hal code for connecting the hardware pins to axis-limit hal pins
[13:47:41] <SWPadnos> you can steal it from a USB or joystick connector
[13:47:42] <optimum> SWPadnos, hmm, interesting
[13:47:45] <optimum> yeah
[13:49:51] <tomp> good use for cable from broken usb thingy ( i use for 5V on ttl breadboard )
[13:49:56] <skunkworks_> logger_emc: bookmark
[13:49:56] <skunkworks_> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-02-08.txt
[14:06:35] <skunkworks_> this is what I used to run the pluto from usb. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/usb5v.jpg old mouse with an end put on it
[14:06:43] <skunkworks_> *cable
[14:08:09] <fenn> note that USB only gives 100mA unless you ask for more, and cpld's at least (maybe not fpga's) use up to 500mA
[14:08:38] <SWPadnos> that would be one heck of a big CPLD
[14:09:46] <fenn> yeah i guess.. had to put a heat sink on it
[14:10:20] <SWPadnos> strange. are you sure there wasn't some internal issue? (like some gates that were fighting each other?)
[14:10:26] <fenn> for this http://minila.sourceforge.net/
[14:10:31] <skunkworks_> please sir - can I have 500ma?
[14:11:25] <fenn> i'm not entirely sure everything is set up right - but the datasheet says that's what it should draw
[14:11:36] <SWPadnos> weird
[14:12:00] <SWPadnos> incidentally, I get a blank page from that SF link
[14:12:16] <SWPadnos> oh, now I don't
[14:13:00] <skunkworks_> that looks interesting. I wonder if anyone is selling the board.
[14:13:04] <optimum> newsig z-home bit; linksp axis.2.home-sw-in z-home; linksp parport.2.pin-11-in-not z-home doesn't work, gives pin 'z-home' not found, link failed. any ideas?
[14:13:05] <skunkworks_> (soldered)
[14:13:29] <SWPadnos> try linkps instead of linksp when you have the pin before the signal
[14:13:30] <optimum> * optimum is not the best person at hal
[14:13:31] <fenn> skunkworks_: it's a poor and strange design, i've come to find out
[14:13:42] <optimum> SWPadnos, oh. ok
[14:14:00] <optimum> or change the position of the two?
[14:14:12] <SWPadnos> optimum, you can also try the "net" command: net z-home axis.2.home-sw-in parport.2.pin-11-in-not
[14:14:21] <fenn> skunkworks_: the designer is nowhere to be found, and most of the discussion goes on in czech, and for some reason they're reluctant to give out the eagle files... how's that for open source hardware?
[14:14:23] <optimum> ooh, fancy
[14:14:29] <optimum> less rows is good
[14:14:31] <SWPadnos> yes, swap the names or use the correct form of the link command ;)
[14:14:33] <SWPadnos> yep
[14:14:42] <SWPadnos> also, it determines the signal type for you automatically
[14:14:49] <optimum> there's no boolean/int/float declaration?
[14:15:07] <SWPadnos> no, it takes the type from the first pin you specify
[14:15:09] <optimum> oh right
[14:15:16] <SWPadnos> and makes sure all the others are the same
[14:15:21] <optimum> sweet
[14:16:21] <SWPadnos> fenn: this datasheet http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds055.pdf says 85mA typical
[14:17:21] <fenn> SWPadnos: we're running it at 250MHz
[14:17:38] <SWPadnos> oh, that's out of spec :)
[14:18:02] <skunkworks_> odd
[14:18:10] <SWPadnos> but I think it should be linear - ~25% higher or around 105 mA
[14:18:23] <fenn> well it was a different CPLD actually, i'd have to dig around
[14:18:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:18:34] <fenn> there was a higher speed version of the same chip
[14:18:38] <SWPadnos> ah
[14:24:35] <optimum> hmm, how can a value of home=0 and home offset = 10 give a home position of 31.82?
[14:25:06] <fenn> you may have other offsets active (g54 or g92)
[14:25:15] <optimum> search and latch vel are both positive
[14:25:19] <optimum> hmm, true
[14:26:27] <optimum> hmm, g92 isn't active, and a g0 g53 still left it at 31.82
[14:26:57] <optimum> oh, wait, my bad
[14:27:26] <fenn> g53 is not modal - it wont affect the display
[14:27:36] <optimum> rel. coords and not machine coords was displayed
[14:27:40] <fenn> g92.1 x0 y0 z0
[14:27:55] <fenn> yes that's the easy way :P
[14:28:42] <skunkworks_> optimum: picutres?
[14:31:33] <optimum> of the mill?
[14:32:09] <fenn> is it an optimum bf-20? :)
[14:32:22] <optimum> yep
[14:32:38] <fenn> those are pretty
[14:32:54] <optimum> yeah I'm quite pleased with it
[14:33:05] <optimum> cheap and works pretty well
[14:34:06] <fenn> how much do they cost?
[14:35:05] <optimum> about 20k SEK
[14:36:21] <optimum> which was about 2k usd back when it was strong
[14:36:29] <optimum> so maybe 1.5k in the us
[14:38:38] <fenn> i unpacked my $159 bandsaw today. haven't used it yet due to a broken pulley
[14:41:08] <fenn> think i will make a cabinet stand for it
[14:41:36] <fenn> and a pulley
[14:57:01] <skunkworks_> new or eused?
[14:57:06] <skunkworks_> new or used?
[14:57:42] <skunkworks_> optimum: yes - pictures of your setup
[14:58:08] <skunkworks_> Fenn: pully for the drive? how big is it?
[14:59:39] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ thinks fenn has a nice space for a workshop now.
[15:23:16] <fenn> it's a step pulley, about 1-2.5 inches
[15:23:31] <skunkworks_> kinda neat. http://www.probotix.com/desktop_cnc_router_prototype/
[15:23:34] <fenn> i decided not to move across town after all, so same workshop
[15:24:58] <archivist> electronics underneath makes for difficult repair
[15:25:28] <fenn> i cant tell, are the rails connected to the base or are they floating?
[15:25:48] <archivist> look connected to me
[15:26:32] <fenn> look at the peanut-shape on the block in the middle of the first pic
[15:27:20] <fenn> * fenn wonders about the carpet on the work bench
[15:27:42] <fenn> i bet he only uses it for pcb's
[15:28:19] <skunkworks_> heh http://cgi.ebay.com/LINUX-BOOT-CD-CNC-LINUXCNC-UBUNTU-MILLING-LATHES-EMC2_W0QQitemZ350022382208QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:US:101
[15:31:05] <cradek> I love the jpeg compression on their logo
[15:31:19] <fenn> at $2.99 they arent making much profit
[15:31:28] <jepler> fenn: plus $5.99 shipping
[15:31:29] <cradek> $9
[15:31:40] <fenn> well, it does cost something to ship it..
[15:31:57] <cradek> first class CD mailer probably costs way under a dollar
[15:32:07] <optimum> skunkworks, hmm haven't you seen them yet? www.lerneaenhydra.net
[15:32:10] <optimum> in the image gallery
[15:32:33] <optimum> opti bf 20 retrofit
[15:32:38] <skunkworks_> Heh - I didn't know you where lerneaenhydra... ;)
[15:32:44] <optimum> err
[15:32:46] <optimum> oops
[15:32:51] <optimum> optimum is now known as lern_hydra
[15:33:03] <fenn> aw jeez
[15:33:12] <lern_hydra> this machine's hostname is optimum ;)
[15:33:13] <fenn> you're an EE and i'm over here lecturing you about parports
[15:33:20] <lern_hydra> well, well well...
[15:33:20] <skunkworks_> I guess someone should make money on emc2 ;)
[15:33:35] <lern_hydra> I haven't done that much with parports to be honest
[15:33:46] <lern_hydra> mostly uC and the like
[15:33:47] <Vq^> oh, it got "bonus software"! :D
[15:34:06] <Vq^> "Bonus Software!!!" even
[15:34:15] <skunkworks_> He really has good info on that page though.. Atleast he did research
[15:34:38] <jepler> skunkworks_: you mean, he cut and pasted from the wiki or website?
[15:34:59] <jepler> I suppose he probably had to work to make the screenshot of mah jong, writer, and calc together :-P
[15:35:01] <skunkworks_> well - yah..
[15:35:21] <archivist> you could the seller email him and ask if you can download it, is it cheaper?
[15:35:23] <jepler> I didn't see where it said what version of emc is on the cd -- 2.1 or 2.2
[15:35:24] <fenn> jepler: you're just jealous because it shows mini instead of AXIS
[15:35:29] <jepler> fenn: well duh
[15:35:40] <skunkworks_> :)
[15:36:06] <skunkworks_> Actually - it is me and I am hoping you guys will buy it..
[15:36:18] <jlmjvm> what website are yall talking about
[15:36:53] <skunkworks_> http://cgi.ebay.com/LINUX-BOOT-CD-CNC-LINUXCNC-UBUNTU-MILLING-LATHES-EMC2_W0QQitemZ350022382208QQcmdZViewItemQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:US:101
[15:39:21] <archivist> start selling an "ebay business idea" how to sell opensource software, there's one born every minute
[15:40:40] <jlmjvm> is he violating any kind of open source license by doing this?
[15:41:21] <fenn> no
[15:42:09] <cradek> many people can't download ISOs
[15:42:38] <lern_hydra> doesn't he have to be able to give source on request?
[15:42:55] <jlmjvm> yes,it appears hes just charging to make you an iso cd
[15:43:01] <cradek> *yes*
[15:43:02] <archivist> "the first generation of EMC" er how old a version
[15:43:31] <jlmjvm> does anyone know who it is
[15:44:20] <jepler> lern_hydra: yes -- read section 3 of the GPL to understand his duty in that regard
[15:45:33] <jepler> he can't do 3c (he's selling the disc) and probably isn't doing 3a (unless he remastered the cd or sells two CDs together) so hopefully he does 3b. (but we wouldn't know without actually buying one of the CDs and looking for the written offer)
[15:45:35] <jlmjvm> i wonder if he will be providing his customers with tech support
[15:46:36] <skunkworks_> heh - he has a link to jeplers site
[15:46:50] <skunkworks_> Altghough it isn't a hyperlink
[15:47:18] <jepler> jlmjvm: haw haw haw haw
[15:49:49] <BigJohnT> If your on dial up it would be faster to order the cd from him than download it...
[15:51:43] <skunkworks_> wait a second.. ;) http://cgi.ebay.com/T384-TWO-NEW-EMC2-SOLUTIONS-ENABLER-SOFTWARE_W0QQitemZ320215491659QQihZ011QQcategoryZ51288QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[15:54:08] <archivist> thats going to a lot of effort, a shrink wrapped emc2 !, who stole whos name
[15:56:32] <jepler> emc.com (the storage people) was registered in 1992, and archive.org has a page on that site from 1996.
[15:56:52] <jepler> er, 1998, my mistake
[15:57:43] <skunkworks_> I would assume - as long as they don'
[15:57:50] <skunkworks_> t do the same thing - it is ok
[15:58:11] <jepler> anyway, emc and emc2 are just abbreviations -- our software is Enhanced Machine Controller, and the version is 2.x.
[15:59:33] <skunkworks_> http://www.britishideas.com/2007/11/19/part-design-tools-and-workflow/
[15:59:34] <skunkworks_> cool
[16:00:29] <skunkworks_> this is my obsesive emc2 google search day.
[16:04:37] <jlmjvm> jepler:what i meant was,is he gonna assist his customers with their initial setup and questions,since hes charging for it,even if it is a small amount,there was absolutely nothing derogatory meant about the support the group provides
[16:17:41] <jlmjvm> i hope that clarifies the earlier statement,or did i misunderstand the haw haw?
[16:34:43] <skunkworks_> you do have to walk on egg shells with these guys.. ;)
[16:36:00] <jepler> jlmjvm: I doubt that he is doing anything but selling the media.
[16:36:44] <jlmjvm> your prolly right
[17:24:50] <jlmjvm> jepler:i sent you an email
[18:09:52] <skunkworks_> http://www.columbiatribune.com/2007/Sep/20070925Busi012.asp
[18:12:01] <alex_joni> yay emc2 :)
[18:13:15] <jlmjvm> thats cool
[18:13:35] <archivist> they should fail for cheating and using easy to get software
[18:15:57] <fenn> those damn mexicans!!
[18:18:03] <skunkworks_> there is a ton of emc machines out there :)
[18:18:04] <skunkworks_> http://www.theblossers.net/index.php?action=view_image&id=43&module=imagegallerymodule&src=%40random44022cc7ad591&int=8
[18:18:35] <skunkworks_> from here http://www.theblossers.net/index.php?section=15
[18:18:45] <skunkworks_> vidoe of the spindle running also
[18:22:03] <fenn> i'm wondering if it's a stupid idea to put the bandsaw above my lathe
[18:22:26] <fenn> they're approximately the same length and used for the same job
[18:23:18] <tomp2> just for cut off?
[18:23:18] <fenn> and then i could theoretically consolidate coolant/vacuum stuff
[18:23:28] <fenn> tomp2: well, what else do you use a 4x6 bandsaw for?
[18:23:41] <tomp2> well, i'd use a lathe for other
[18:23:52] <fenn> oh, no the lathe would be cnc and all that
[18:23:58] <tomp2> k
[18:24:15] <fenn> but when you're using the bandsaw, typically the lathe is involved too
[18:25:42] <fenn> then i could roll it all around on wheels and have a portable metal menagerie
[18:26:08] <tomp2> make coolant and vacuum portable too.
[18:26:26] <fenn> right, that would be behind the lathe i think
[18:26:28] <tomp2> i got a roll around bandsaw here, it likes to wander ;)
[18:27:21] <tomp2> also the compressor on wheels, it wanders a lot, i keep it in a crib under a workbench, but it jiggles out sometimes
[18:27:24] <fenn> coolant is probably overkill though
[18:28:05] <tomp2> i like the idea of the split airstream cooling, but its a waste of compressor
[18:28:23] <fenn> yeah, just blast more air at it
[18:28:31] <fenn> unless you're cooling CCD's or something
[18:29:32] <fenn> tomp2: ever heard of thermoacoustics?
[18:33:37] <tomp2> nope, 'walls of jericho'?
[18:33:57] <fenn> er.. no?
[18:34:06] <tomp2> sound used as weapon
[18:34:32] <fenn> it's a way of taking advantage of the rate of heat dissipation to convert between a temperature gradient and standing sound waves
[18:35:01] <fenn> and usually sound waves <-> electricity
[18:35:43] <tomp2> hmm, standing wave... i'll google that up
[18:36:44] <fenn> a wave at the fundamental resonant frequency of the chamber (usually just a tube)
[18:37:52] <tomp2> los alamos pdf on thermoacoustics http://www.lanl.gov/thermoacoustics/ehistory.pdf reading now
[18:38:05] <alex_joni> bbl
[18:38:35] <fenn> i see a lot of words
[18:39:40] <fenn> http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Publications/ThermoDemo.pdf
[18:43:13] <fenn> ah isotope separation - that's probably why lanl is into it
[18:44:00] <tomp2> yeh, i saw the separation stuff, but your DIY is cool (:)
[18:45:53] <tomp2> gotta save that and back to hal geda/eagle/inkscape stuff. if i manually draw enuf configs, i'll see what a drawing to hal file utility should do
[18:47:47] <fenn> wah
[18:48:01] <fenn> a hal config tool should show the current state of hal
[18:48:13] <fenn> so you could click on a signal and see its value
[18:48:23] <fenn> or modify it
[18:49:30] <fenn> using electronics schematics is a gross hack
[18:50:11] <tomp2> i want the clik on a signal , and using any existing tool is a hack ( aside from c or python )
[18:50:34] <fenn> well, graphviz might be worth using
[18:50:53] <fenn> interacting with it might be a pain though
[18:51:36] <tomp2> dot etc... by drawing the config files we have already, i hope to see the use ( i imagine the visualization will be handy, rather than reading a config )
[18:51:42] <fenn> i'm thinking a gtk tree for each component, connected with cairo 'wires'
[18:51:46] <tomp2> martin schoeneck's work is appreciated
[18:52:31] <fenn> any config of more than trivial complexity will take up a lot of screen space (without collapsible components)
[18:58:26] <fenn> tomp2: if you're working on inkscape curves, i think biarcs are the way to go
[18:59:41] <fenn> and most of the work is already done here http://axis.unpythonic.net/01171767993
[19:00:54] <fenn> oh, you meant inkscape for drawing schematics
[19:30:28] <alex_joni> http://feedmelinks.com/80724
[19:41:51] <archivist> hehe good find, I write xml readers for my bot
[19:50:58] <skunkworks_> http://www.astromonkey.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Science;action=display;num=1199310987;start=10
[20:27:47] <skunkworks_> http://www.harbaum.org/till/cnc/index.shtml
[21:18:38] <fenn> "but runs from a 4GB flash drive, so it does not have sufficient space for the development environment." <-- am i the only one who sees a problem with that statement?
[21:20:01] <SWPadnos> what - that 4GB is actually enough for the development environment?
[21:20:09] <skunkworks_> I am pretty sure I have it installed on a 4gb hd
[21:20:16] <skunkworks_> pretty sure anyways
[21:20:28] <cradek> I know I do too
[21:21:12] <fenn> my laptop has 4G used in /
[21:21:21] <SWPadnos> I just looked at an 8GB flash drive with full dev tools installed, and it's got 3 GB used, 4.2GB free (and 0.5 GB lost to rounding)
[21:21:31] <fenn> 1611 packages installed
[21:21:38] <SWPadnos> well, 0.3GB lost to rounding, it reports the drive as 7.5GB
[21:21:46] <SWPadnos> maybe I put swap space on this one
[21:24:39] <cradek> I think I end up around 3GB for a full desktop install with full devel tools for emc2
[21:25:02] <skunkworks_> I think I had a 2 gb drive that wasn't enough.. ;)
[21:26:23] <skunkworks_> iirc - the installer doesn't check to see if there is enough space - it just stops after it runs out.
[21:26:54] <skunkworks_> It may have been a 1.7gb
[21:26:56] <archivist> it also doesnt handle old bioses nicely
[21:27:40] <jepler> it might be undesirable for other reasons to develop on that machine, and I'm interested in whether pbuilder works in this situation
[21:27:51] <jepler> (it should, but there may be bugs in emc that have to be resolved before that..)
[21:28:18] <skunkworks_> I only know because I think I tried it 2 or 3 times before it dawned on me that it was harddrive space.
[21:39:39] <fenn> would someone with write access make a emc2-sim version of this script? http://linuxcnc.org/dapper/emc2-install.sh
[21:40:23] <SWPadnos> with write access to what?
[21:40:36] <fenn> linuxcnc.org
[21:40:56] <SWPadnos> ah. I was thinking it could be put on the wiki
[21:41:09] <fenn> but then anyone could change it :)
[21:41:28] <fenn> <insert evil haxxor commands here>
[21:42:10] <fenn> basically just change emc2.2 to emc2.2-sim, and emc2 to emc2-sim
[21:55:10] <tomp2> argh! note to self, read fsckn notes to self! last month i saw inkscape connectors were from ctr of obj to ctr of obj (useless for hal diagrams), and sodipodi had no connectors period... dangit, i just rediscovered all that again AND the note from 20080106 reminding me :(
[21:58:47] <alex_joni> fenn: linuxcnc.org/dapper/emc2-install-sim.sh
[21:59:25] <fenn> thank you alex
[21:59:43] <alex_joni> can you please check it? .. I did it without checking
[22:02:48] <fenn> if emc2 is already installed it doesn't modify sources.list
[22:03:38] <fenn> or rather, if they tried to install emc2
[22:08:57] <alex_joni> fenn: better now?
[22:09:41] <fenn> uh, maybe?
[22:10:09] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:i just got my mill back together,did a new step conf,when i try to jog the z axis in continous it will move .020 and quit
[22:10:36] <fenn> http.us.debian.org is crapping out on me
[22:11:24] <jlmjvm> .0001 thru .010 work,.05 and .1 no movement,and continuous will move .020
[22:11:26] <fenn> anyway, i think it should work
[22:12:00] <fenn> i still need to fix that libpth2 thing
[22:13:55] <jlmjvm> cradek:are you using 2.2.3 on your mill yet?
[22:14:38] <cradek> on the lathe I am using it
[22:14:42] <cradek> I haven't used the mill for a bit
[22:14:57] <LawrenceG> tvtime
[22:16:29] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> [1]a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[22:16:40] <jlmjvm> my machine limits arent showing up anymore either
[22:16:42] <skunkworks_> LawrenceG: any progress on your bldc drive?
[22:16:55] <BIGEye_> BIGEye_ is now known as quiteBIGeye
[22:17:36] <jlmjvm> will try a reboot
[22:17:39] <LawrenceG> skunkworks: :{ staring at a list of projects to work on... and the drive wasnt even on it...
[22:20:57] <skunkworks_> he must be a windows user..
[22:20:59] <skunkworks_> ;)
[22:22:56] <jlmjvm> did a reboot and same result,no limits box and will only .020 in continuous
[22:23:26] <fenn> jlmjvm: when was the last time rebooting actually fixed something?
[22:23:38] <cradek> your min limit and max limit are probably .020 apart on that axis
[22:23:48] <cradek> I bet you typoed into stepconf
[22:24:00] <cradek> or, you set them the same, or some other misconfiguration
[22:24:21] <skunkworks_> you could pastebin.ca your ini file...
[22:24:24] <quiteBIGeye> 0.02 may be a single step
[22:24:26] <jepler> jlmjvm: also, axis has a toggle to show or hide the machine limits lines, View > Show Machine Limits
[22:24:33] <jepler> if you turned that off, they will not appear onscreen
[22:24:40] <cradek> or you made min greater than max?
[22:25:16] <jepler> I don't think stepconf diagnoses any of those mistakes cradek mentions.
[22:26:09] <cradek> so what are your limits on that axis?
[22:26:12] <jlmjvm> may have the min and max limits inverted in stepconf,checked earlier box was on
[22:26:27] <jlmjvm> i bet thats what it is
[22:30:48] <jlmjvm> that was it,got the box back and the axis moves
[22:32:15] <jlmjvm> thanks guys
[22:33:02] <jepler> I'm glad chris had the right guess
[22:36:07] <fenn> "Need to get 93.1MB of archives" <- gnome.. :(
[22:38:08] <jlmjvm> now if i try to do any move in mdi it says linear move in mdi would exceed limits
[22:38:38] <jlmjvm> yet it jogs and homes correctly in manual
[22:38:48] <fenn> check coordinate systems
[22:39:15] <fenn> DRO may be displaying machine coords
[22:39:46] <jlmjvm> i get the error for either direction with or without a tool offset turned on
[22:40:22] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: start with a fresh var file
[22:42:19] <jepler> or use the Machine > Zero Coordinate System menu (zero at least G54 and G92)
[22:44:27] <jlmjvm> did that,no change,wont even do a g91 move in mdi
[22:45:17] <jepler> try alex_joni's, and if that fails check again to see if your limits are right in the configuration files
[22:45:35] <fenn> i shouldn't have blamed gnome, it was actually all the texlive translations
[22:45:38] <jepler> er, try his suggestion..
[22:47:28] <jlmjvm> where do i get a fresh var file
[22:48:09] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: /etc/emc2/sample-configs
[22:48:14] <jepler> e.g., /etc/emc2/sample-configs/sim/sim.var
[22:49:04] <jlmjvm> k
[22:53:18] <jlmjvm> sweet
[22:53:46] <jlmjvm> moving now in mdi
[22:56:41] <jlmjvm> now this is what puzzels me,the relative and machine position show the same number
[22:57:24] <fenn> why does stepconf leave the old .var file around?
[22:58:10] <fenn> jlmjvm: that means all your coordinate offsets are 0
[22:58:51] <jlmjvm> if i have a 1 inch tool length offset and issue g43 h1 z0. the quill moves down 1 inch,at that point shouldnt the relative be 0 and the machine be - 1 inch
[22:59:09] <alex_joni> tool length and machine offsets are completely different things
[22:59:23] <jlmjvm> machine position
[22:59:30] <jlmjvm> not offset
[22:59:48] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: tool length offsets and machine offsets are completely different things
[23:00:34] <alex_joni> I guess I really mean: work offsets
[23:00:43] <alex_joni> G54..
[23:00:50] <fenn> g92
[23:00:57] <jlmjvm> view,machine position is what im talking about
[23:01:04] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode_coordinates.html
[23:01:33] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: the view machine position shows you G53
[23:01:47] <alex_joni> (if you set G54, then the 2 views will be different)
[23:02:04] <jlmjvm> yes,and if the quill goes down 1 inch shouldnt it be -1.00
[23:02:20] <alex_joni> no, because you didn't set an offset
[23:02:28] <alex_joni> G54-G59.3
[23:02:39] <alex_joni> or G92 (global offset)
[23:02:42] <jlmjvm> g54=0
[23:03:14] <alex_joni> then the 2 views will be identical
[23:03:25] <fenn> perhaps we could have a big table with all the different positions and offsets as a menu item
[23:03:33] <alex_joni> tool lenght offsetting doesn't get updated like this
[23:04:19] <fenn> might be useful for debugging 5 axis TLO stuff
[23:04:30] <jlmjvm> what do you mean alex?
[23:04:45] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: you have the machine coordinates.. right?
[23:04:53] <alex_joni> in G53, those never change
[23:04:58] <jlmjvm> correct
[23:05:13] <alex_joni> in G54, G55, .. G59.3 you can set individual offsets
[23:05:25] <jlmjvm> yes
[23:05:27] <alex_joni> for different workpieces
[23:05:31] <jlmjvm> yes
[23:05:41] <alex_joni> if you have one of those offsets active, you can switch view in AXIS
[23:05:56] <alex_joni> view machine, view offset (or whatever the entry is called)
[23:06:33] <jlmjvm> yes
[23:06:44] <alex_joni> tool length offsets work differently
[23:07:11] <alex_joni> they don't update G54..G59.3 offsets afaik
[23:07:38] <fenn> sounds pretty arbitrary
[23:07:57] <fenn> no g-code? you're a second-class offset
[23:08:19] <alex_joni> fenn: I "think" TLO offsets G53
[23:08:30] <alex_joni> so all the offsets get set off :)
[23:08:44] <alex_joni> but you still won't see a difference between G53 and G54
[23:09:04] <jlmjvm> shouldnt the g53 numbers remain unchanged whether you use a tool length offset or not
[23:09:25] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: I don't know enough about this though..
[23:09:57] <fenn> one way of thinking about g53 is where the tool tip is relative to the table
[23:09:59] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: how did you set the TLO ?
[23:10:20] <alex_joni> G43?
[23:10:35] <jlmjvm> by putting a value in the tool table
[23:10:47] <jlmjvm> yes then using a g43
[23:10:50] <alex_joni> you still need to activate
[23:11:01] <alex_joni> ok.. the G43 by itself doesn't cause motion
[23:11:10] <alex_joni> so you need a G0/1 after that
[23:11:43] <jlmjvm> g0 g43 z0. h1
[23:12:10] <jlmjvm> and with a 1 inch offset in the tool table it moves down 1 inch
[23:12:18] <jlmjvm> just as it should
[23:12:53] <jlmjvm> but at that point shouldnt the g53 be -1 inch
[23:13:17] <jlmjvm> and the relative position be 0
[23:13:50] <alex_joni> I don't think so
[23:14:08] <alex_joni> (but as I said.. I'm not sure)
[23:15:35] <jlmjvm> i think it should be,didnt think any tool length offset should change that number
[23:17:21] <jlmjvm> cradek do you still have 2.2.2 on your mill?
[23:18:08] <skunkworks> how are you viewing the g53 offset? YOu can't set that. (like you can with 54..)
[23:18:36] <jlmjvm> g53 isnt an offset,its the machine number
[23:19:05] <jlmjvm> view,show machine position
[23:20:26] <jlmjvm> skunkworks,what version are you running right now?
[23:20:42] <skunkworks> I don't have a machine up right now.
[23:20:45] <jlmjvm> k
[23:21:45] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: I still think TLO operates on G53 and on all offsets
[23:22:08] <alex_joni> because even if you don't have an workpiece offsets, something needs to happen to machine position based on the tool loaded
[23:22:22] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: I think G53 refers to tooltip location
[23:23:36] <skunkworks> I would agree with that. When you command a g53 motion - you want to make sure the tool tip is what your moving. (you would not have to think - what tool do I have in and can I move it without hitting my clamps.)
[23:23:36] <jlmjvm> should be the machine position,and modified by nothing whether tlo or g54-59
[23:24:07] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: what is machine position?
[23:24:15] <jlmjvm> g53
[23:25:48] <jlmjvm> you shouldnt be able to change the g53 at all
[23:25:51] <alex_joni> no, I mean what does it express?
[23:26:04] <jlmjvm> sorry
[23:26:08] <fenn> some point relative to some other point
[23:26:15] <alex_joni> imagine a hexapod before you answer that
[23:26:28] <jlmjvm> brb
[23:29:45] <jlmjvm> skunkworks:dont you have a machine shop?
[23:31:05] <jlmjvm> do you have any mills with a fanuc
[23:42:55] <jlmjvm> on the bright side even though the g53 is being changed it still knows where the limits are
[23:45:50] <jlmjvm> example,i have 4.5 inches z travel,with a 1 inch tlo turned on it will move to minus 3.5 and stop which is correct because the machine physically moved - 4.5 inches
[23:46:55] <jlmjvm> but the relative position should be -3.5,and the machine position should be -4.5
[23:57:55] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/166051917.html
[23:58:29] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: as with anything else around g-code, this is not agreed upon by different manufacturers