#emc | Logs for 2008-02-02

[00:02:00] <alex_joni> runtermachen :)
[00:02:09] <ravennb_> okay
[00:02:13] <alex_joni> noobs gibts ueberall, waren wir ja alle am anfang
[00:02:38] <ravennb_> ja deswegen bin ich zu denen ja auch meistens net
[00:02:38] <ravennb_> t
[00:03:01] <ravennb_> ich weiß nämlich wie ich angefangen habe mit elektronischen basteleien ohhh ohhh^^
[00:04:31] <ravennb_> und jetzt hab ich den trafo hier mit nem eurostecker->kroko klemmen->trafo verdrahtet und die krokoklemmen mit tesa aufn tisch geklebt
[00:04:40] <ravennb_> hoff ich mal dass ich da nciht drankomme
[00:05:40] <alex_joni> ravennb_: I'm off to bed (here's an hour later).. good night
[00:06:00] <ravennb_> good night
[00:06:05] <jmkasunich> good night alex
[00:06:15] <alex_joni> good night all
[02:00:31] <fenn> seems to me a slow update DRO would only really be useful for screw mapping
[02:02:08] <fenn> you could periodically do some kind of homing procedure to check for thermal growth
[02:09:41] <eric_U> I thought I was talking to myself, turns out I was right about something for once
[02:41:06] <maddash> if I'm supposed to monitor the integrity of an AC signal, is it necessary to measure both the frequency error and phase angle error?
[02:48:11] <fenn> phase angle relative to what?
[02:49:16] <tomp2> might/must be more than single phase
[02:49:59] <Gamma-X> whats a good place to buy some end mills?
[02:50:09] <Gamma-X> i need to buy a small assortment of them
[02:50:35] <tomp2> i use j&l in midwest, there's others, and maybe mcmastercarr
[02:50:53] <Gamma-X> tomp cheap? im worried about price mainly
[02:51:06] <tomp2> (they;re just down the street ), chaep, but thier chinese stuff
[02:51:37] <tomp2> http://www.jlindustrial.com/cgi/jisrhm
[02:52:22] <Gamma-X> up 2 60% off yesterday and today
[02:53:19] <eric_U> maddash, you have to define the metrics by which you are defining integrity
[02:53:55] <eric_U> phase isn't important, but power factor is
[02:54:20] <eric_U> anyone here secretly hope that yahoo groups goes away?
[02:55:35] <Gamma-X> hey gimme a few types and sizes of endmills to bnuy i have like no bits literally
[02:56:23] <fenn> eric_U: yes but not secretly
[02:56:44] <eric_U> I suppose I could just cancel all my memberships :)
[02:57:36] <Gamma-X> anyone? lol please
[02:57:38] <fenn> Gamma-X: 2 flute: 1/8" 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" 3/4" and get a 3/8" ball end
[02:57:48] <fenn> get enco brand, uncoated
[02:58:20] <fenn> try to get a small number of shank sizes
[02:58:32] <Gamma-X> cool
[02:58:46] <Gamma-X> fenn http://www.jlindustrial.com/CGI/JISRCH?Ntt=end+mill&Ntk=Keyword+Search&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&N=4294966610+3699+4294953533+4294953852
[02:58:59] <fenn> oh and get a 90 degree countersink and 60 degree dovetail if you're feeling lucky
[02:58:59] <Gamma-X> up 2 60 % off today only, free tin coating aswell
[02:59:19] <Gamma-X> what do i use for engraving?
[02:59:21] <fenn> 60% off means nothing to me
[02:59:42] <fenn> an engraving bit
[03:00:01] <Gamma-X> fenn how much are the encos do they come in a kit? like with a pretty little box? ahah
[03:00:09] <fenn> not if you're smart
[03:00:19] <fenn> kits are usually crap and you end up with a lot of stuff you never use
[03:00:24] <Gamma-X> ok
[03:00:29] <jmkasunich> buy single endmills
[03:00:32] <Gamma-X> u ever use 4 flute?
[03:00:41] <jmkasunich> and drill some holds in a chunk of 2-by-4 to store them
[03:00:43] <fenn> 4 flute is good if you do a lot of steel
[03:00:55] <fenn> 2 flute for better chip clearance for hogging
[03:01:05] <jmkasunich> don't use 4 flute for slotting (in any material)
[03:01:07] <fenn> but really a roughing endmill makes hogging much easier
[03:01:44] <fenn> btw Gamma-X any coating will reduce the sharpness (unless you pay a whole lot)
[03:01:49] <Gamma-X> fenn what do u finish off with?
[03:01:56] <Gamma-X> fenn what will the coating do anuyway?
[03:01:58] <fenn> hah i dont have a mill
[03:02:01] <Gamma-X> lol
[03:02:23] <jmkasunich> Gamma-X: for hobby class machinists, my personal opinion is that coatings don't do much
[03:02:35] <jmkasunich> they let production machinist push feeds and speeds a bit higher
[03:02:45] <Gamma-X> ok
[03:02:48] <toastydeath> agreed
[03:03:09] <jmkasunich> and they increase tool life - important when you run 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, or more
[03:03:11] <toastydeath> the coating is a solid lubricant that works only at high speed
[03:03:12] <Gamma-X> what kind of bit do u use to finish off with?
[03:03:19] <toastydeath> a sharp one
[03:03:27] <Gamma-X> hiow many flutes?
[03:03:34] <jmkasunich> Gamma-X: I tend to use the same tool for roughing and finishing, cause I don't want to change
[03:03:36] <toastydeath> however many I need - steel, four or more, aluminum, 3
[03:03:43] <toastydeath> i don't use anything but 3 flute in aluminum.
[03:03:50] <jmkasunich> not ideal, but my machine is light, so I can't really rough anyway
[03:03:54] <fenn> 3 is the most rigid but annoying to measure :P
[03:04:11] <toastydeath> yeah, that is true
[03:04:30] <Gamma-X> ok
[03:04:39] <Gamma-X> anything else i should get while im at it?
[03:04:40] <toastydeath> finishing is really just a matter of feed
[03:04:43] <toastydeath> not really cutter.
[03:04:50] <toastydeath> unless you're trying to finish with a roughing endmill.
[03:04:51] <fenn> um, get a couple more 1/4" endmills cause you will break them :)
[03:05:05] <tomp2> fly cutter
[03:05:12] <toastydeath> +1 flycutter
[03:05:19] <jmkasunich> Gamma-X: you have a bport class mill?
[03:05:31] <Gamma-X> pretty much, its a supermax
[03:05:40] <Gamma-X> 3hp motor, 32 pnd servos
[03:05:49] <Gamma-X> 4600 rpm
[03:05:50] <jmkasunich> you have a full set of either collets or endmill holders?
[03:05:55] <Gamma-X> yes
[03:05:56] <Gamma-X> both
[03:06:12] <jmkasunich> 3/4" is the biggest collet, what is the biggest endmill holder you have?
[03:06:18] <fenn> a 'full set' is one of each size? not good for cnc
[03:06:38] <Gamma-X> jmkasunich not sure of the biggest but if need be ill buy one
[03:07:01] <jmkasunich> in R8, I think of a set as being 3/4, 1/2, 3/8, 1/4 and 3/16 - those are the most common tool shank sizes
[03:07:12] <jmkasunich> 3/8 and 3/4 are the key ones
[03:07:37] <Gamma-X> ok
[03:07:42] <jmkasunich> if you can afford it, I'd get a rougher and finisher to fit your 3/4 collet or holder
[03:07:52] <jmkasunich> cutting diameter can be 3/4 or 1" or thereabouts
[03:07:58] <Gamma-X> i only plan on doin aluminum for now so 2 flute is good?
[03:08:00] <jmkasunich> those won't be cheap
[03:08:02] <jmkasunich> sure
[03:08:21] <Gamma-X> jmkasunich can u show me an example from enco?
[03:09:40] <toastydeath> how fast is the spindle
[03:09:42] <toastydeath> on that bridgeport
[03:09:44] <toastydeath> 4000?
[03:09:50] <jmkasunich> I think he said 4600 max
[03:09:57] <Gamma-X> supermax! lol 4200 i think
[03:10:03] <toastydeath> you can get moving metal pretty damn fast on those
[03:10:09] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: you probably know brands better than me - is putnam any good?
[03:10:26] <toastydeath> to be honest i've only heard the name in passing, i've never asked what they make.
[03:10:32] <toastydeath> (putnam)
[03:11:02] <Gamma-X> brb
[03:11:10] <jmkasunich> 3/4" dia, 3/4" flute length, enco is $10.48 and probably crap, putnam $22.38, OSG is $46
[03:11:17] <tomp2> what some call a 'swedish' end mill is a great hogger, it has a ripply side contour and skipped 'teeth'. look for 'roughing end mill' in j&l
[03:11:30] <jmkasunich> in Gamma's shoes I'd probably buy the putham, unless money is very tight
[03:11:34] <toastydeath> tomp2: that's what we've been talking about
[03:11:45] <toastydeath> yeah, don't skimp on endmills or your life will suck
[03:12:06] <fenn> i found a big box of endmills at an antique tool store in maine..
[03:12:20] <toastydeath> get it! buy a t&c grinder.
[03:12:27] <fenn> i got it
[03:12:35] <fenn> they're all sharp
[03:12:39] <toastydeath> hot!
[03:12:42] <fenn> 3/8" shank
[03:13:18] <jmkasunich> fenn: really sharp? (like, under a 10x loupe they show no corner wear?)
[03:13:23] <toastydeath> but a note to whoever has the mill
[03:13:28] <jmkasunich> I've rarely found used endmills to be actually sharp
[03:13:28] <fenn> er.. i dunno
[03:13:34] <toastydeath> you can spin any size endmill in aluminum at 4200 rpm
[03:13:42] <toastydeath> as long as you keep a spritz of coolant on it.
[03:13:58] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: we're talking HSS here, not carbide
[03:14:04] <toastydeath> jmkasunich: i'm talking hss too
[03:14:12] <toastydeath> i've had 3/4" HSS endmills up that far
[03:14:12] <jmkasunich> that would be 800 SFPM on a 3/4" tool
[03:14:16] <toastydeath> yep
[03:14:18] <jmkasunich> I don't doubt you have
[03:14:20] <toastydeath> .3-.4" deep
[03:14:23] <toastydeath> on a bridgeport.
[03:14:25] <jmkasunich> but would you recommend a beginner do that?
[03:14:28] <toastydeath> sure!
[03:14:35] <toastydeath> no better time to learn than the present!
[03:14:42] <jmkasunich> keeping it cool and cutting chips, not rubbing, is important at that speed
[03:14:50] <toastydeath> i'm noting it just so that he realizes there's more space in the machine
[03:14:53] <toastydeath> than 300 sfm
[03:15:18] <toastydeath> well doing both those things are easy
[03:15:36] <fenn> jmkasunich: sharp enough to cut my finger on
[03:15:53] <jmkasunich> the upper parts of the flutes are probably quite sharp
[03:16:00] <fenn> that was the corner
[03:16:01] <jmkasunich> and very usable if you are cutting full depth
[03:16:10] <jmkasunich> thats good then
[03:16:14] <toastydeath> 42 IPM is a .005" chipload on 3/4 at 4200 rpm
[03:16:14] <jmkasunich> (not for your finger, but...)
[03:16:27] <tomp2> beware rust ( blood rusts fast )
[03:19:46] <jmkasunich> Gamma-X: you still here
[03:20:10] <toastydeath> also don't run at that speed until you have six months of experience or so
[03:20:11] <jmkasunich> what is your budget for a "starter endmill set"
[03:20:23] <toastydeath> because bad stuff happens very fast at 42 ipm
[03:23:37] <jmkasunich> for comparison - on my shoptask I just cleaned up the surface of an aluminum piece with a 1/2" endmill, about 1000 RPM, 0.040 depth of cut, and 6 ipm
[03:24:07] <jmkasunich> the machine could have done more, especially in spindle speed
[03:24:18] <jmkasunich> but I'm lazy about changing the v-belts
[03:24:42] <fenn> then your v-belt system is no good?
[03:24:51] <jmkasunich> agreed
[03:25:00] <toastydeath> needs more vfd!
[03:25:07] <jmkasunich> hmm, dog is whining, I think he needs a walk
[03:25:30] <toastydeath> he knows you need a vfd
[03:25:32] <toastydeath> and is whining for that
[03:25:34] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: agreed - only a matter of time and money
[03:25:38] <toastydeath> =)
[03:25:41] <jmkasunich> bbl
[03:26:38] <toastydeath> also for more reference I do things at work that routinely make other people take a step back or two
[03:27:58] <toastydeath> which is probably a good idea, i wish i could take a step back
[03:28:03] <toastydeath> but someone has to hold the estop
[03:28:26] <tomp2> is there a ttl encoder to parport hal module? ( i want to test a scale and dont wanna drive home to get an STG or Mesa )
[03:28:51] <eric_U> I thought there was
[03:29:23] <tomp2> i saw jon's ppmc read encoders so i had hope
[03:30:04] <tomp2> oh well, 9pm, time to warm up the car anyways
[03:45:55] <jmkasunich> tomp: there is a software encoder counter
[03:46:05] <jmkasunich> you can bring the encoder sigs in thru the parport
[03:46:27] <jmkasunich> it is limited in count speed of course - 10-20KHz depending on your base thread
[03:49:59] <jmkasunich> I've always drilled on a drill press, mostly by feel
[03:50:22] <jmkasunich> anybody know roughly how much feed-per-rev I should have for drilling smallish holes?
[03:50:32] <jmkasunich> smallish = ~1/8"
[03:50:35] <fenn> same as for endmills no?
[03:50:42] <fenn> maybe a little more
[03:50:50] <jmkasunich> drills go down, mills go sideways
[03:51:04] <fenn> yeah but if you keep the same chip per tooth you should be fine
[03:52:03] <fenn> i guess i could just say "i dont know either"
[04:07:11] <lerman__> lerman__ is now known as lerman
[04:12:28] <cradek> jmkasunich: I drill alum at 50sfm (1500rpm @ 1/8) and .002 (6ipm)
[04:13:02] <cradek> my (terrible) drill bits have some chance drilling the right size at that very low speed
[04:13:13] <cradek> ... he's not here
[04:17:24] <fenn> hmmm
[04:17:44] <toastydeath> wb
[04:18:31] <toastydeath> wb folks
[04:19:42] <cradek> not all back yet
[04:22:52] <cradek> jmkasunich: I drill alum at 50sfm (1500rpm @ 1/8) and .002 (6ipm)
[04:22:53] <cradek> my (terrible) drill bits have some chance drilling the right size at that very low speed
[04:23:10] <toastydeath> get some guhring drill bits
[04:23:27] <toastydeath> send em back when they get dull
[04:23:37] <cradek> I tried the numbers in machinery's - it was quite a failure
[04:23:43] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: at the rate I do things, it takes a long time to get dull
[04:23:50] <toastydeath> cradek: ?
[04:24:03] <jmkasunich> cradek: I'm trying tool length offsets, but I think I have a dilemma
[04:24:04] <cradek> they have you drill aluminum awfully fast
[04:24:08] <toastydeath> yep
[04:24:16] <cradek> didn't work (at all) for me
[04:24:17] <toastydeath> 300 sfm min, usually
[04:24:20] <toastydeath> what?
[04:24:20] <toastydeath> why?
[04:24:34] <fenn> i think the numbers in MH are limits for the tool bits, assuming infinite rigidity of the machine (well compared to hobby sized machines)
[04:24:49] <cradek> I got squawking and a hugely oversize hole
[04:24:56] <toastydeath> that's a problem with the drill
[04:25:02] <cradek> yeah I know
[04:25:10] <toastydeath> get a guhring drill, seriously
[04:25:20] <toastydeath> they're like 15 bucks but if you do a lot of one size, they're the best available
[04:25:43] <jmkasunich> hopefully a #43 isn't $15 ;-)
[04:25:44] <toastydeath> parabolic, polish flutes, coated, and a split point
[04:25:45] <cradek> I use my sixteenths - numbers - and - letters index all the time, lots of sizes
[04:25:55] <cradek> that would be many $hundreds
[04:25:58] <jmkasunich> right
[04:26:06] <cradek> I'd rather cut slower
[04:26:07] <toastydeath> not even a real split point, it's some sort of weird ball endmill looking point
[04:26:10] <toastydeath> eh
[04:26:19] <jmkasunich> I was about to say the same - a hobbyies doesn't know what size he cuts a lot of
[04:26:20] <toastydeath> or resharpen the drill so it goes in properly?
[04:26:32] <jmkasunich> although I'd be tempted to invest in good bits in the common tap drill sizes
[04:26:42] <cradek> toastydeath: I've been tempted to try to build a sharpening jig - but drill sharpening seems like such an art
[04:26:49] <fenn> that's what i do - screw machine bits for tap drill sizes
[04:27:00] <toastydeath> i do it by hand?
[04:27:02] <cradek> yes that's a good idea
[04:27:03] <toastydeath> works just fine
[04:27:09] <cradek> jmkasunich: what's the TLO problem?
[04:27:19] <jmkasunich> cradek: I have 3.3" of Z travel
[04:27:37] <jmkasunich> if I measure my tool lengths from the spindle nose (easiest way to do it), some are more than 3.3" long
[04:27:52] <jmkasunich> so, if I turn on TLO, my next move will be more than my travel limits
[04:28:03] <cradek> no it won't
[04:28:10] <jmkasunich> (or does my next move have to be a Z move that offsets all or most of the change in length?
[04:28:13] <cradek> first Z move should be to your (compensated) work safety height
[04:28:24] <cradek> an axis doesn't get TLO until you move it
[04:28:37] <cradek> so feel free to G43, G0X..Y.., G0Z[small]
[04:28:43] <cradek> it will do what you want
[04:28:45] <jmkasunich> ok, right now I have no comp in effect
[04:29:05] <jmkasunich> I recently touched off with an endmill
[04:29:19] <tomp> jmkasunich: thanks, will try the encoder counter
[04:29:33] <jmkasunich> but there was no comp in effect then
[04:29:51] <cradek> you would have to measure your tool lengths from that reference length then
[04:29:55] <jmkasunich> now I've updated the tool table and reloaded it
[04:30:06] <jmkasunich> I want to touch off again, this time with TLO in effect
[04:30:12] <jmkasunich> so that all tools will be valid
[04:30:16] <cradek> yes I think you can just do that
[04:30:41] <jmkasunich> just do G43 H<whatevertool>?
[04:30:42] <cradek> mdi g43h[tool], g0z0 (apply comp), then touch off
[04:31:05] <GNieport1> good evening, all. I have a HAL question. I am am setting up homing to a limit switch. The same limit loop input trips for both Xmin, Xmax, Ymin, Ymax. However, HAL is giving an error that the input pin cannot be linked to two different signals. How do I configure one input to stop either axis for a limit violation?
[04:31:07] <jmkasunich> g0z0 is gonna try to make it move 3.5" if the tool table number for that tool is 3.5"
[04:31:37] <jmkasunich> GNieport1: you link one signal to two pins, not two signals to one pin
[04:31:45] <cradek> maybe touch-off with that length instead of 0?
[04:31:50] <GNieport1> ah, thanks
[04:31:57] <jmkasunich> parport -> signal, signal -> axis.0.whatever, signal -> axis.1.whatever
[04:32:17] <jmkasunich> cradek: you mean before I turn on TLO?
[04:32:29] <cradek> mind if I suggest a different scheme altogether?
[04:32:29] <jmkasunich> yeah, that makes sense
[04:32:32] <jmkasunich> sure
[04:32:58] <cradek> find the longest tool for the job, touch off, make it TLO 0
[04:33:31] <cradek> put the shorter tools in, one at a time, jog Z to touch the same spot, copy those Z values from the screen into the tool table, but negative
[04:33:41] <cradek> now you are guaranteed to have the maximum Z travel available
[04:34:24] <jmkasunich> I can see how it gives me a table that is valid for that job
[04:34:34] <cradek> right, but only for that set of tools
[04:34:38] <jmkasunich> don't see how it optimizes travel - that is a function of how I set up the work
[04:34:55] <cradek> ok I'm thinking of a knee
[04:35:09] <cradek> put the longest tool in, quill mostly up, move the work up to it, call it TLO 0
[04:35:16] <cradek> (that's what I do)
[04:35:25] <jmkasunich> then quill down for the shorter tools
[04:35:27] <cradek> right
[04:35:28] <jmkasunich> that makes sense
[04:35:34] <jmkasunich> can you send me your knee?
[04:35:53] <cradek> there's only one proper height for your work, it's slightly under the longest tool with the quill up
[04:35:58] <cradek> yeah, sorry about that
[04:36:22] <jmkasunich> anyway, my work is what it is
[04:36:34] <cradek> this is why I eventually want TLO in the knee on mine
[04:36:34] <jmkasunich> and I'm hoping to have a tool table that I don't have to mess with all the time
[04:36:52] <cradek> I understand but that's probably not possible considering your short travel
[04:37:10] <cradek> unless you pick tools VERY carefully
[04:37:13] <jmkasunich> insert any tool, enable TLO for that tool, touch off with that tool, all other tools should work
[04:37:18] <cradek> any drill really screws it up
[04:37:24] <cradek> right
[04:37:41] <jmkasunich> I have a rather short chuck, and I use endmill holders, not collets for mills, so its not as bad as it could be
[04:38:05] <jmkasunich> right now I have four tools - two drills and two mills, and my range is 2.614 to 3.516
[04:38:14] <jmkasunich> the drills are small and thus short
[04:38:25] <cradek> that sounds surprisingly good
[04:39:06] <cradek> the thing I dislike about (large) positive TLOs is that any move without TLO applied is a spectacular crash
[04:39:07] <jmkasunich> in any case, TLO as nothing to do with whether I can do the job with my tools - that depends only on the diff between longest and shortest tool, and on the position of the work
[04:39:22] <cradek> you are right
[04:39:43] <cradek> with neg TLOs the tool will always be too high, not too low
[04:39:50] <jmkasunich> good point about the crash
[04:40:20] <jmkasunich> but with repeatably interchangable tool holders that index off of the spindle nose, it makes a lot of sense to use the nose as the datum
[04:40:22] <cradek> but with neg TLOs if you get a longer tool you have to redo them all
[04:40:36] <cradek> yes it does
[04:40:43] <cradek> well except you can't touch-off the nose
[04:40:59] <jmkasunich> I can touch off with any tool that I will use in the job
[04:41:05] <cradek> right
[04:41:09] <jmkasunich> (probably whatever one is the most critical)
[04:41:24] <cradek> someone made a bug report about touch-off with TLO in effect. let me know if you also think it's broken :-)
[04:41:37] <jmkasunich> ok
[04:41:57] <jmkasunich> hmm, I could also do something like subtracting 4.000" from every length number
[04:42:04] <cradek> yes
[04:42:06] <jmkasunich> that would make most or all of them negative
[04:42:46] <cradek> it would be nice to have a probe for touch-off, combined with this scheme
[04:43:29] <GNieport1> sorry to jump in here; the machine is currently wired with one limit loop that handles both X and Y axes. When I run 'Home' on X EMC faults for a limit violation on Y when the switch trips during the X routine
[04:43:31] <cradek> I guess you could make a 4" long something too then
[04:43:43] <GNieport1> Do I need to seperate the loops, or is there a workaround
[04:43:54] <cradek> GNieport1: it's possible to fix that with a somewhat advanced hal configuration
[04:44:17] <GNieport1> I checked the wiki but didn't find anything, did I miss it?
[04:44:22] <cradek> there is an output axis.N.homing that comes on when that axis is homing. You would need to mask the limit signal to the other axes with this signal.
[04:44:31] <GNieport1> okay
[04:44:43] <GNieport1> not a problem, thanks
[04:44:45] <cradek> you could do it with a not+and, among other possibly-simpler ways
[04:44:49] <jmkasunich> GNieport1: if you can, it is much nicer if you can separate axes
[04:45:03] <GNieport1> I COULD do it :)
[04:45:09] <jmkasunich> that lets you do things like homing X and Y at the same time
[04:45:16] <cradek> yes you can definitely do it
[04:45:23] <jmkasunich> (if you don't have enough inputs, then it becomes hard to do)
[04:45:25] <cradek> but it's much nicer if you can home axes simultaneously
[04:45:51] <GNieport1> excellent, thank you
[04:48:22] <cradek> jmkasunich: an indicator attached solidly to a holder and set so it indicates 4.000" from the spindle nose, used for touch-off, would set all your tools correctly
[04:48:48] <cradek> hmm, I may have to try that
[04:48:58] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure I follow
[04:49:10] <jmkasunich> I'm using the TTS toolholders right now
[04:49:25] <cradek> oh you got those? how are they?
[04:49:30] <jmkasunich> so I can set the tool on the surface plate (on parallels) and measure the spindle-nose to tip distance easily
[04:49:33] <jmkasunich> so far so good
[04:49:39] <cradek> neat
[04:49:57] <cradek> say you have an indicator 4" long
[04:49:57] <jmkasunich> I have a 1/4" jacobs chuck (nice and short), a 1/4" keyless chuck (longer), and two endmill holders
[04:50:04] <GNieport1> Which document has the full HAL command reference?
[04:50:05] <cradek> put 4-[len] in the tool table
[04:50:15] <cradek> or is it len-4?
[04:50:31] <cradek> anyway, then you could poke the work with the indicator to set all the tools
[04:50:57] <fenn> would the indicator need to have a TTS holder?
[04:51:08] <jmkasunich> I put one of the tools about 0.2" above the work, lay a 1/4" dowel pin down, and raise the tool till the pin rolls under, then touch off at 0.250"
[04:51:12] <cradek> sure it would have to mount so it's 4" long each time
[04:51:36] <fenn> where did 4" come from?
[04:51:42] <jmkasunich> fenn: read back
[04:52:00] <Jymmmm> jmkasunich: That's a pretty good idea
[04:52:11] <cradek> jmkasunich: I use that scheme too, but it requires a pretty flat workpiece
[04:52:22] <cradek> I guess usually it's fine
[04:52:40] <Jymmmm> I've been using a flashlight... pretty damn accurate
[04:53:02] <cradek> jmkasunich's scheme will get you to within your smallest incremental jog
[04:53:26] <cradek> but, often you'll find that on a 4-tooth end mill, the dowel will pass under each tooth on a different increment
[04:53:30] <jmkasunich> cradek: there is a bug with touchoff and TLO
[04:53:37] <cradek> jmkasunich: dangit
[04:53:54] <jmkasunich> I just enable TLO, the display changed
[04:53:57] <cradek> did you move Z after G43 so it applies?
[04:54:05] <Jymmmm> cradek: While never considering using a drill bit as a measuring tool, the shadow of the light beam at about 6 degrees lets me dial on really well.
[04:54:20] <Jymmmm> s/on/in/
[04:54:24] <jmkasunich> then jogged the tool around, touched off with the dowel as described above
[04:54:28] <cradek> oh it doesn't have to apply on a move does it
[04:54:41] <jmkasunich> then moved Y clear of the work, and said G0Z0
[04:54:50] <jmkasunich> it should have gone down 0.25", instead it went up
[04:54:59] <jmkasunich> and the display now says 0.789" for Z
[04:55:21] <cradek> so you do G43H... and the dro changes, right so far?
[04:55:32] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:55:49] <cradek> when you touch-off does the number you type show up in the dro?
[04:56:06] <jmkasunich> thats a good question - I'm so used to it working I'm not sure it did
[04:56:32] <jmkasunich> I can to it again - I'll turn off TLO, move Z, turn it on, and touch off again
[04:56:34] <cradek> I bet not, and that makes me sad because it's going to be a pain
[04:56:41] <cradek> please do check that step
[04:57:03] <jmkasunich> G49 is TLO off, right?
[04:57:07] <cradek> yes
[04:57:30] <jmkasunich> the active modal codes window says G49 right now
[04:57:36] <Jymmmm> Could I use the reset connections as a "start" button with this safety relay? http://www.sti.com/ltr2/access.php?file=pdf/4796.pdf
[04:57:37] <GNieport1> cradek: what is the syntax of a HAL logic AND
[04:57:42] <jmkasunich> (I haven't issued G49 yet, it should still be G43)
[04:57:57] <GNieport1> cradek: or even better, NAND
[04:58:20] <jmkasunich> GNieport1: there is no nand
[04:58:24] <jmkasunich> use an and and a not
[04:58:26] <fenn> GNieport1: it's a comp, not part of the language
[04:58:31] <Jymmmm> as opposed to just a regular relay wired in a latching configuration that is
[04:58:34] <jmkasunich> there are man pages for those things
[04:58:36] <GNieport1> nuff said
[05:03:00] <GNieport1> jymmm Are you referring to diagram 4 section h
[05:03:17] <GNieport1> momentary reset PB
[05:06:00] <GNieport1> jymmm, the reset button in section h simply will not allow the safety ouput to be energized after A1/A2 cycle until a human pushes a reset button. I.E. principle that machine cannot resume automatic operation without a definite action being taken.
[05:07:03] <GNieport1> so, yes, reset will energize the ouput
[06:28:27] <Jymmmm> GNieport Ok, so it could be used as the whole estop circuitry - cool
[12:04:53] <Guest982> hi
[12:05:27] <Guest982> deutsche hier?
[12:06:53] <Guest982> how can i make a preview of the File in EMC2?
[12:07:10] <Guest982> is load the prog and then would like to see how it looks like
[12:07:14] <Guest982> i
[13:24:37] <micges> hi all
[13:34:34] <alex_joni> hi
[13:40:19] <micges> can you shortly tell about g49 bug ?
[13:40:29] <micges> (if there is any)
[14:01:16] <ravennb> morgen
[14:01:21] <ravennb> hi all
[14:03:04] <micges> hi ravennb
[14:10:20] <ravennb> I think that I've grilled my L298 IC's
[14:19:34] <micges> logger_emc: bookmark
[14:19:34] <micges> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-02-02.txt
[14:34:01] <ravennb> ok I've changed the L298 an it works
[14:43:49] <BigJohnT> micges: what does the bookmark do?
[14:53:37] <micges> BigJohnT: logger_emc: bookmark - show logged today talk on #emc channel
[14:56:08] <micges> BigjohnT: (if you asked about this)
[14:57:32] <ravennb> hrhr the electronic works perfect
[14:58:04] <ravennb> but I disabled the boost signal cause I grilled 3 L298 Ic's
[15:05:58] <BigJohnT> micges: thanks
[15:22:02] <ravennb> my stepper motors get hot and this with no mechanic on their axes they are so hot that it hurts your finger when you touch it
[15:22:15] <ravennb> ist that normal or what?
[15:22:40] <jmkasunich> steppers usually run hot
[15:22:57] <jmkasunich> but if you put too much current into them they might get too hot
[15:23:15] <jmkasunich> 70C is "normal" if your drive doesn't reduce current when stopped
[15:23:24] <jmkasunich> 100C would be too hot I think
[15:24:57] <ravennb> it reduces current by stop...
[15:25:37] <jmkasunich> can you measure the temperature?
[15:25:37] <ravennb> ok I dont have an temperature meter here but I think they were not over 70C
[15:26:00] <jmkasunich> under 70C I would not worry about
[15:26:57] <jmkasunich> you should make sure you are not running higher than rated current
[15:27:57] <archivist> mine are nice hand warmers
[15:32:00] <ravennb> I run under rated current
[15:32:19] <ravennb> the motors are rated to 2A I run with 1,8-1,9A
[15:33:53] <jmkasunich> how much do you lower current when idle?
[15:39:00] <ravennb> 25%
[15:39:39] <jmkasunich> lower it by 25% (from 100 to 75) or lower it to 25%?
[15:39:53] <ravennb> by 25% from 100 to 75
[15:40:21] <jmkasunich> ok - your motors will still be pretty warm when idle then
[15:40:31] <ravennb> I can?t change this it's from my 3D-Step
[15:40:37] <jmkasunich> at 100% current 70C-80C is normal
[15:40:50] <jmkasunich> 75% current will lower the power disspation by not quite half
[15:40:55] <ravennb> wait a moment.... it lowers to 25%
[15:41:13] <ravennb> I've read this in the manual
[15:41:36] <jmkasunich> at 25% current, power dissipation is lower - resistive losses = 6.25% of full current losses
[15:42:07] <jmkasunich> iron losses in the motor mean that total losses don't reduce quite that much
[15:42:10] <archivist> also depends on cooling by conduction through machine
[15:42:23] <jmkasunich> true - unmounted motors will be hotter than mounted ones
[15:42:51] <ravennb> hmmm why do unmounted get hotter?
[15:42:53] <jmkasunich> at idle, I'd expect your motors to be 50C or less if mounted
[15:42:58] <jmkasunich> running, 70-80C
[15:43:15] <jmkasunich> 90-100C is where you start to worry
[15:43:55] <jmkasunich> or if they start to smell hot
[15:44:28] <ravennb> hmm okay thanks... if I think that they get to hot I'll give them a fan
[15:44:50] <archivist> mount on thick aluminium
[15:45:18] <ravennb> yeah I'll do that
[15:45:20] <ravennb> thanks a lot
[15:54:54] <BigJohnT> because the unmounted motor has less surface area to dissipate the heat to the air
[15:58:30] <ravennb> ok
[15:58:48] <ravennb> hmmm which g-code is for spindle on?
[15:59:24] <ravennb> for coolant flood on is M8 and M9 for off are there any codes for spindle on off?
[16:00:19] <fretless85> hey guys
[16:00:25] <ravennb> hi
[16:01:53] <archivist> ravennb, M3
[16:02:09] <ravennb> for on and which for off?
[16:02:14] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode.html
[16:02:45] <archivist> M3 on clockwise M4 anti M5 stop
[16:04:14] <ravennb> hmmm in Axis there is an button for spindle on (clockwise) and off but in manual control M3 and M5 don't work
[16:04:56] <ravennb> and M4 don't work either
[16:06:01] <archivist> if the programmed speed =0 it wont turn
[16:08:39] <ravennb> hmmm how do I program the speed?
[16:09:05] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode.html
[16:09:24] <ravennb> ok ok
[16:09:34] <ravennb> S right?? but what number?
[16:09:46] <BigJohnT> I'm not being mean but you should scan through the g code quick guide
[16:10:56] <alex_joni> ravennb: if you only control spindle on/off then the S word is of no real use to you
[16:11:04] <alex_joni> still you need to use a nonzero S word
[16:11:12] <alex_joni> otherwise the spindle will not turn on
[16:11:17] <alex_joni> M3 S100
[16:11:22] <ravennb> ok i've testet it with 1
[16:11:26] <ravennb> S1
[16:11:28] <ravennb> M3
[16:11:32] <alex_joni> that should work too
[16:11:39] <ravennb> I've used two lines and it works
[16:11:42] <ravennb> thanks
[16:28:41] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT is jumping up and down my SHCS g code generator is almost done
[16:29:06] <archivist> "SHCS"?
[16:29:26] <jmkasunich> socket head cap screw I think
[16:29:34] <jmkasunich> the code generator does counterbores and such?
[16:30:02] <BigJohnT> yep
[16:30:02] <archivist> sh*t hot cap screws
[16:37:23] <Gamma-X> whats a good set of soft jaws
[16:38:47] <archivist> the ones that actually fit your....
[16:39:46] <Gamma-X> i got one of the enco vises..
[16:39:50] <Gamma-X> the precision vise
[16:45:29] <BigJohnT> Gamma there is a guy on flea bay that sells soft jaws real cost effective
[16:45:48] <BigJohnT> if you have a standard type 6" vise
[16:46:45] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X: you get your mill going?
[16:47:07] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT yeah standard
[16:47:12] <Gamma-X> and no not yet gotta do pid
[16:47:56] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT whats a live center used for?
[16:48:03] <BigJohnT> a lathe
[16:48:36] <Gamma-X> ok
[16:51:14] <BigJohnT> by standard do you mean you manually crank on the dials?
[16:52:30] <Gamma-X> no i mean its just a regular enco precision vise...
[16:52:52] <Gamma-X> i think i might buy an infared heater
[16:54:22] <BigJohnT> here is where I get my soft jaws http://cgi.ebay.com/6-X-2-X1-ALUMINUM-6-SOFT-JAWS-KURT-CHICK-HAAS-VISE-JAW_W0QQitemZ300194919704QQihZ020QQcategoryZ25297QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[16:54:41] <BigJohnT> so you have the mill moving under servo power?
[16:55:29] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT yes i just need to tune pid
[16:57:38] <BigJohnT> Sweet!
[16:58:42] <Gamma-X> i know lol thanks.
[17:05:46] <tomp> re: the stepper heat, once the motor gets hot, its quite a mass & may take a long time to cool, so dont be too quick to evaluate 'it got cooler/it stays hot' ( eg slow syns are uncomfortably hot in use and for 10 min after power off)
[17:21:14] <SkullWorks_PGAB> PUMA.KINS - is there a fixed ratio of the length of each joint segment, or can you just plug the value/ratios into the kin file.
[17:22:02] <alex_joni> SkullWorks_PGAB: the kins are for a puma560
[17:22:17] <alex_joni> if you have a different robot you'll have to adapt the strut lengths
[17:22:45] <alex_joni> (hint: there are some 6*R robots which don't quite fit the puma model, so some extension to the kins need to be made..)
[17:23:35] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I was thinking of making a 1/3 scale puma stepper powered.
[17:24:04] <alex_joni> then it can probably work
[17:24:07] <SkullWorks_PGAB> maybe 1/4 scale after I crunch the numbers
[17:25:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni runs home
[17:25:58] <SkullWorks_PGAB> but I would just be basing my design from simple tape measure readings - I don't have any real design prints to work from yet.
[17:29:32] <archivist> hmm should I 5 miles from here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UMI-RTX-100-light-industrial-robot-arm_W0QQitemZ280195189979QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4660QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[17:29:42] <archivist> a robot arm
[17:31:16] <SkullWorks_PGAB> those are the really fast type
[17:31:28] <alex_joni> archivist: looks way nice :)
[17:31:36] <alex_joni> grab it if it's under 300 quid
[17:31:44] <alex_joni> if you don't use it I'll buy it off you :P
[17:33:39] <archivist> hmm tool changer for the cnc :))
[17:34:14] <SkullWorks_PGAB> thats what I'm thinking for my little stepper puma
[17:34:52] <SkullWorks_PGAB> there really isn't space to build one on the machine
[17:35:33] <SkullWorks_PGAB> here is a vid of a simular unit - note the speed http://youtube.com/watch?v=8MVV0snHw_g
[17:35:51] <alex_joni> SkullWorks_PGAB: scara's are damn fast
[17:35:58] <alex_joni> sometimes used for pick&place
[17:36:52] <archivist> ew first bidder was a cheapskate
[17:37:16] <Gamma-X> archivist what would u do with that? lol
[17:37:24] <archivist> play
[17:37:31] <Gamma-X> hahaha how much can they lift?
[17:37:43] <SkullWorks_PGAB> they are accurate enough for SMT use - just not sure if its worth changing heads - or having a full line of these loading boards
[17:37:51] <alex_joni> Gamma-X: 2kg on that one
[17:37:53] <archivist> at that price its worth it for the parts
[17:38:11] <alex_joni> archivist: I suspect it'll go up in the last day
[17:38:14] <alex_joni> maybe up to 1k
[17:38:20] <Gamma-X> whats 2kg in pounds? im american
[17:38:40] <archivist> probably then its way out of my price range
[17:38:42] <alex_joni> 4 pounds
[17:38:46] <SkullWorks_PGAB> better have a good hoist - some of those units have a HEAVY base
[17:38:53] <alex_joni> archivist: ping me tomorrow about it :)
[17:38:59] <archivist> ok
[17:39:14] <Gamma-X> 4 pounds thats it?
[17:39:24] <alex_joni> SkullWorks_PGAB: 10 pounds base
[17:39:35] <alex_joni> Gamma-X: 60 pounds for the complete robot
[17:39:42] <SkullWorks_PGAB> at that speed 4 lbs is alot
[17:39:46] <alex_joni> how much would you want it to pick?
[17:39:50] <Gamma-X> why even buy it? lol
[17:40:00] <alex_joni> yaw: 120 deg/sec
[17:40:02] <Gamma-X> i want a robot that can pick up my car! lol
[17:40:16] <alex_joni> the biggest puma typed can pick up 3000lbs
[17:40:24] <alex_joni> but it weighs about the same :)
[17:40:28] <Gamma-X> hahaha
[17:40:33] <Gamma-X> that would be sweet
[17:40:35] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Gamma ha been watching Transformers too much.
[17:40:40] <Gamma-X> hahaha
[17:40:43] <Gamma-X> awsome movie!
[17:40:52] <Gamma-X> that girl was sooo hot 2.
[17:40:53] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Best in IMAX
[17:41:00] <alex_joni> http://www.kuka.com/en/products/industrial_robots/heavy/kr1000/start.htm
[17:41:01] <Gamma-X> dont got an imax around here
[17:41:08] <alex_joni> 2000 pound payload
[17:41:15] <alex_joni> 9000 pound weight
[17:41:24] <Gamma-X> damn thats scary
[17:41:37] <Gamma-X> * Gamma-X is now known as megatron
[17:42:02] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I have the KUKA - 'the correct method to pour Beer' video.
[17:42:11] <Gamma-X> hahaha
[17:42:26] <Gamma-X> brb smoke time, yo im movin out of my dads today, so im not gunna be near my machine!
[17:43:19] <archivist> give it one last hug before you go
[17:43:46] <alex_joni> see you guys
[17:43:50] <alex_joni> archivist: talk to you later :)
[17:43:54] <SkullWorks_PGAB> night alex
[17:44:21] <alex_joni> SkullWorks_PGAB: not quite night.. going home from work
[17:44:30] <alex_joni> (and yeah, I noticed it's saturday ..)
[17:44:42] <SkullWorks_PGAB> * SkullWorks_PGAB wonders if he has his head on straight.
[17:44:55] <archivist> * archivist comes to work to play with his cnc
[17:44:56] <alex_joni> SkullWorks_PGAB: only 8pm here :P
[17:45:06] <BigJohnT> http://951753.pastebin.ca/889094
[17:45:20] <BigJohnT> SHCS g code generated code...
[17:47:00] <SkullWorks_PGAB> looks like it has errors
[17:48:02] <SkullWorks_PGAB> lines 11 and 12 hav Identical Y values and different X - on an arc
[17:49:34] <SkullWorks_PGAB> which IS possible if defining the ends of a cord... but it is not doing that.
[17:49:48] <BigJohnT> did you run it?
[17:49:58] <SkullWorks_PGAB> no
[17:50:19] <BigJohnT> the last arc moves the cutter to the center of the hole
[17:50:25] <BigJohnT> for extraction
[17:51:29] <BigJohnT> line 12 also has a different I value
[17:52:23] <BigJohnT> load the file in EMC and look at the backplot...
[17:53:01] <SkullWorks_PGAB> does it move between lines 5 and 7 in X/Y?
[17:53:25] <BigJohnT> yes it spirals down
[17:53:36] <BigJohnT> do you have EMC handy
[17:54:04] <BigJohnT> ugh the start and end x and y are the same
[17:54:13] <BigJohnT> a complete circle
[17:54:23] <SkullWorks_PGAB> no - majic smoke event from pws last week
[17:55:04] <BigJohnT> hmmm want me to post a picture of the backplot?
[17:55:54] <SkullWorks_PGAB> strange - on many machines it would not move in G90, in G91 it would walk off to the upper right
[17:57:30] <BigJohnT> what's G90
[17:57:35] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I've been stuck using only lathes for the last year.
[17:57:43] <BigJohnT> ok
[17:57:56] <SkullWorks_PGAB> G90 absolute
[17:58:05] <BigJohnT> ok
[17:58:18] <SkullWorks_PGAB> OK - that works
[17:59:03] <Roguish> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Gcode
[17:59:30] <BigJohnT> I know I know rtfm
[18:01:52] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Screenshot-1cbtestngc-AXIS223.png
[18:02:17] <BigJohnT> here is what it does
[18:03:58] <BigJohnT> this path is for counterbores when your endmill diameter is larger than the hole radius
[18:06:44] <fretless85> helix?
[18:06:52] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Why start at 11 o'clock?
[18:08:43] <BigJohnT> what do you mean 11 o'clock?
[18:08:54] <BigJohnT> fretless a counter bore
[18:09:58] <fretless85> yea i know move in a spiral down with z while x/y does a circle
[18:10:13] <SkullWorks_PGAB> * SkullWorks_PGAB really needs coffee
[18:10:38] <BigJohnT> with one complete circle at the bottom
[18:10:44] <fretless85> right
[18:12:13] <fretless85> in german its named "Bohrfräsen"
[18:12:35] <fretless85> "boremilling" ?! *g*
[18:13:02] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT was googling Bohrfräsen LOL
[18:14:25] <fretless85> on the heidenhain its cycle 208 ^^
[18:16:27] <BigJohnT> in cycle 208 when the tool diameter is less than the hole radius what method is used? spiral from out to in or in to out?
[18:17:56] <fretless85> it moves to save distance in Z
[18:18:19] <fretless85> moves to x on the point of the radius
[18:18:38] <fretless85> and stats to dig in with a spiral in z
[18:19:27] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Sorry John - I been over tired and wasn't reading the code right - and line 12 was doing a 180 degree cord to the center from 9 o'clock not 11 (my bad)
[18:20:34] <BigJohnT> no problem I was circling the wrong direction anyway should have been G2
[18:21:20] <fretless85> on the heidenhain u can programm it by hand easy...
[18:22:16] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I really need to go download my G13 macro from the shop and get it posted.
[18:22:30] <fretless85> g13?
[18:22:41] <fretless85> im not that handy with gcode
[18:23:08] <SkullWorks_PGAB> simple circle or circle pocket with cutter comp
[18:23:30] <BigJohnT> cool
[18:23:48] <BigJohnT> I'd like to see it
[18:24:15] <fretless85> ive got tons of heidenhain programms and cycles and m functions...but thats not usefull here right? ;)
[18:24:37] <BigJohnT> I'm not sure
[18:25:01] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Haas and Yaznaq use it - I run a Mori Seiki mill with a Fanuc 18m on it - so for me to run there programs I had to make a Macro that does it.
[18:26:33] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Fanuc has a nice feature where you name the program o9000 to o9010 and there is a parameter that assigns that program a G code
[18:28:07] <SkullWorks_PGAB> so I put a line that has G13 I.75 Q.25 F75. and it passes the values directly to o9001
[18:28:18] <SkullWorks_PGAB> and runs it
[18:28:51] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I want to port it to EMC - its real handy
[18:33:55] <BigJohnT> do you have to move to the xy center of the hole before the g13?
[18:35:54] <SkullWorks_PGAB> On my version yes - you also have to plunge to depth - this follows the Yaznaq format.
[18:37:39] <SkullWorks_PGAB> on the Haas version it will move to the X/Y position at a R height then plunge and pocket at incremental depth steps until it reaches the final Z value
[18:37:57] <BigJohnT> ok
[18:38:05] <fretless85> than a full cycle...
[18:38:09] <SkullWorks_PGAB> then it returns to the Z/R height
[18:38:11] <fretless85> same on the heidenhain here
[18:38:39] <fretless85> a full circle
[18:38:42] <fretless85> sorry
[18:38:48] <SkullWorks_PGAB> mine requires a seperate retract command
[18:39:10] <gezar> pocketing?
[18:39:20] <fretless85> than it moves to the center with a circle and back out of the hole
[18:39:57] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I wrote it to run Yaznaq programs when we got an overflow job and all the programs and tooling were provided
[18:41:00] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I will prolly rework the macro to the Haas method as it does so much more
[18:41:23] <SkullWorks_PGAB> before posting it for emc
[18:41:38] <BigJohnT> gezar: I'm working on my Counterbore program http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
[18:42:43] <gezar> nice
[18:42:58] <BigJohnT> thanks, it's almost done
[18:43:00] <gezar> does emc have spiral interp?
[18:43:08] <BigJohnT> dunno
[18:43:15] <jmkasunich> yes
[18:43:32] <jmkasunich> if you mean a G2 or G3 arc in XY with simultaneous Z move
[18:43:48] <jmkasunich> oh, thats helical
[18:44:01] <BigJohnT> that's what I'm doing for the counterbore program
[18:44:14] <jmkasunich> if spiral means constant Z, increasing radius, then EMC doesn't have that
[18:44:31] <gezar> yeah
[18:45:08] <gezar> its an awsome path to have the ability to use, its a 5k upgrade on a fanuc
[18:45:34] <jmkasunich> what g-code does it use, and how do you specify it?
[18:45:49] <gezar> ide be going from memory, let me see if I can find it
[18:45:55] <archivist> and join spiral to helical for tapered threads and Fusee's in clocks
[18:46:05] <BigJohnT> I've uploaded a new screen shot of the program
[18:49:27] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT is off to a nap
[18:53:05] <gezar> I cant find it jmkasunich
[18:53:47] <gezar> what is the name of the screw that is used to tighten the jaws on a 3 jaw chuck, I cant remember what its called
[18:54:01] <cradek> scroll
[18:59:27] <gezar> damnit I cant find it
[18:59:55] <cradek> a sprial is very easy to approximate with arcs (see arcspiral.ngc for example)
[19:09:02] <gezar> http://www.compumachine.com/Support/Downloads/Fadal/GE%20Fanuc/0010__GE_FANUC_User_Manual.pdf
[19:09:09] <gezar> page 54-58 i believe
[19:10:39] <gezar> yep, thats what I was talking about
[19:12:16] <gezar> its awsome to use for facing parts off on a mill
[19:47:34] <dmess> spiral is archimedeian interpolation
[20:11:57] <tomp> OPS bought Ingersoll. Ingersoll unveiled new HiSpeed Mills and EDM in Burbach. Look out Geo Fischer Group! http://www.ops-ingersoll.de/
[20:12:33] <tomp> damn, they had hands on open house Jan 31
[20:23:12] <fretless85> ignersoll builds machines?
[20:23:29] <tomp> http://www.ops-ingersoll.de/
[20:23:30] <fretless85> we got ingersoll tools at work
[20:29:43] <dmess> i believed they are still owned by the iscar group???
[20:30:14] <fretless85> yes iscar ingersoll
[20:30:23] <dmess> or maybe the kennametalgroup... i forget
[20:31:07] <fretless85> no iscar
[20:31:25] <dmess> there are only the 2 left... and the asians..tiger-tek
[20:31:28] <fretless85> but we also got kennametall cabide plates
[20:32:01] <dmess> sandvick still has some life but who see's them?
[20:32:22] <dmess> we use their deep hole equipment
[20:33:00] <fretless85> we use sanvik for milling
[20:33:24] <fretless85> mostly for high alloy steels
[20:33:59] <dmess> what sort of hi-alloy steel do you work with??
[20:35:19] <fretless85> mostly Chrome steels
[20:35:26] <fretless85> and some X steels
[20:36:05] <dmess> ALL we work with is hi-strength steel.. 300M , aermet100 , super-hy-tuf , etc.. we machine most finished features after h/t so have to go thru NDT...
[20:36:27] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/IMG_0015.jpg
[20:36:31] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/IMG_0014.jpg
[20:37:23] <dmess> nice lookin parts...
[20:37:33] <fretless85> and the axle
[20:37:34] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/00001.jpg
[20:37:39] <dmess> what s/ware you program in??
[20:37:53] <fretless85> heidenhain
[20:38:05] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/00002.jpg
[20:38:09] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/00003.jpg
[20:38:26] <dmess> what machine is 00001 on??
[20:38:28] <fretless85> the axle is 50CrMo+QT
[20:38:47] <dmess> programmed on the machine??
[20:38:56] <fretless85> yes programmed by hand on the machine
[20:39:12] <fretless85> the machine is a zayer 4000 in X
[20:39:16] <dmess> cudo's.. there are still some of ME out there... ; )
[20:39:43] <fretless85> cudo's?
[20:40:04] <dmess> i hopped on a friends MECOF recently and his operators looked at me like i was GOD on water...
[20:40:29] <dmess> congratulations... your 1 of the good guys..;)
[20:40:41] <fretless85> ;)
[20:40:48] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/test/RIMG1372.JPG
[20:41:12] <dmess> all they have ever had to do is run spoonfed g-codes from his many cad/cam systems...
[20:41:27] <fretless85> i hate cam programms...
[20:41:29] <fretless85> for real
[20:41:58] <dmess> unless i made them i do to... mine i hit start and d go home on..
[20:42:12] <fretless85> lol
[20:43:04] <dmess> come back in the am to a finished part.. made many a mould while not there... watch the ruffin'.. let her finish herself..
[20:43:40] <fretless85> i would hate to mill with cam programms...
[20:43:43] <fretless85> thats boring!
[20:44:11] <dmess> that gear to me is all the same code over and over... so even in APT360 its a breeze for me to program
[20:46:27] <fretless85> thank god that our parts are to complex to program it with an cam
[20:47:20] <dmess> i could do anything in the right cam....there is no TOO complex...
[20:48:18] <archivist> when the cam takes longer than making by hand then....
[20:48:28] <BigJohnT> want a copy of bob cad LOL
[20:48:36] <dmess> your using the wrong cam
[20:49:03] <BigJohnT> dmess: what's your favorite cam
[20:49:35] <fretless85> mine is called head and fingers
[20:49:37] <dmess> favorite or most dedicated to??
[20:49:49] <BigJohnT> both
[20:51:14] <eric_U> I wish I could figure out how to make the cam on Pro/E work, that would be free
[20:52:22] <dmess> apt360 is and will always be my 1st love.... 2nd Catia R16... i can run it thrun apt 360 to make it do what I WANT... 3rd Cimatron pre-Elite .. it was just SOOO farr ahead of its time THEN.. i still love roughin with it.. 5 clicks and waterline code to within .1"
[20:52:23] <eric_U> much prefer solidworks though
[20:52:33] <BigJohnT> I wish solidworks would have cam
[20:52:38] <eric_U> me too
[20:52:56] <dmess> sworks with cam is called CATIA
[20:52:57] <eric_U> I just give my model to the machinist and he uses mastercam to convert
[20:53:19] <dmess> mastercam is a workhourse too
[20:53:37] <eric_U> doesnt' help at home though
[20:53:40] <BigJohnT> yea, I can get my g code fast from master cam
[20:53:44] <dmess> cheap easy to learn many colleges taught it here
[20:53:51] <eric_U> which?
[20:54:05] <dmess> in Canada
[20:54:18] <eric_U> I don't know if they teach it around here
[20:54:47] <dmess> george brown college, durham , northern,
[20:54:58] <eric_U> it's not interesting enough for them to teach it to engineers here
[20:55:05] <eric_U> which is very shortsighted
[20:55:20] <dmess> some high schools had intro cources to prep for college
[20:56:03] <dmess> engineering tecnician's and technologists... ( 2 yrs vs 3 yr courses )
[20:56:21] <eric_U> now that you mention it, I think my daughter can take it
[20:56:35] <eric_U> she was taking some kind of drafting
[20:56:55] <dmess> i learned 5 axis APT @ george brown college
[20:57:13] <eric_U> it's funny, students trying to get into fancy colleges cant take those courses because there is no honors programs
[20:57:58] <eric_U> they take health and drivers ed by correspondence so that doesn't go onto their transcript
[20:58:05] <dmess> i hit the bricks with a 4.0 gpa.. had my choice of paths and went into the machine shop...
[20:58:45] <dmess> never regreted it... for 1 second..
[20:58:45] <eric_U> perfect gpa here is 5.0 out of 4.0
[20:59:10] <dmess> i ran 4.1 til the last semester..
[20:59:24] <dmess> who said i was perfect...
[21:00:44] <eric_U> I thought you did
[21:00:47] <dmess> pulled a perfect ZERO on 1 major in the last semester... but that'll happen when ya try and cheat...
[21:01:30] <eric_U> I thought about going into machining, but the only machinist I knew had to work 60 hours a week, decided that wasn't going to work for me
[21:02:20] <fretless85> 60houts per week? oh my god
[21:02:23] <fretless85> hours
[21:02:37] <eric_U> how much do you work?
[21:02:46] <fretless85> we got 36.5 per week
[21:03:27] <dmess> ive had 100 hour weeks on some projects...
[21:03:27] <eric_U> well, working 60 hours a week is counterproductive in my book, but employers look at it differently
[21:03:44] <fretless85> but you can work more...but its up to you
[21:04:02] <fretless85> 36.5-40 you get 25% added
[21:04:14] <fretless85> 40>you get 50% added
[21:04:32] <dmess> i went to our east coast last year... parts were 6 weeks delivery.... i brought home parts in 11 days... 154 hours on the clock...
[21:04:43] <fretless85> and 10% add for shift
[21:04:53] <eric_U> I went to an aircraft factory in Belgium, they were getting off at noon on Friday
[21:04:55] <dmess> there were 5 aircraft on the line waiting for them...
[21:05:23] <fretless85> same here eric
[21:05:46] <dmess> we get time and a half after 44
[21:06:14] <dmess> we work 37 hrs a week where i am now too
[21:06:18] <eric_U> too bad I'm too old to move to Europe :)
[21:06:32] <eric_U> Canada wouldn't take me either
[21:06:40] <fretless85> lol
[21:06:45] <dmess> im thinking about a job in Russia/Siberia..
[21:07:02] <eric_U> I would be a superstar if I only had to work 37 hours a week
[21:07:08] <dmess> oh come on canada takes anyboby
[21:07:21] <eric_U> yeah, up until 48
[21:07:32] <dmess> nay youd be bored or a drunk.. like me
[21:07:41] <fretless85> how much do you work eric?
[21:07:51] <eric_U> minimum 50 hours
[21:08:15] <eric_U> pretty much comes with the territory with a Ph.D. in the U.S.
[21:08:18] <fretless85> for how much the hour? (if you like to tell)
[21:08:36] <eric_U> not enough :)
[21:08:54] <fretless85> i just want to compare ;)
[21:09:05] <dmess> this shop was a shock to me... ive only known 50-60 hr weeks for the last 18 yrs... all of a sudden theres my wife...huh..
[21:09:09] <fretless85> you can wisper it to me, if you want to
[21:09:23] <eric_U> well, since my pay is in American pesos, it's looking kinda light nowadays
[21:09:24] <fretless85> lool dmess
[21:09:55] <fretless85> mine is in euro so? ;)
[21:10:19] <dmess> what do you want.... to do what... i think i gotta go to the shop for a bit..
[21:11:57] <eric_U> funny thing is, I'm not sure how much I'm making :)
[21:11:58] <dmess> ya the russian job is in US pecos... and for 5 years... thats kind of a sentence for $$$ but what the hell ive been serving a sentence here anyway and for no pay..
[21:12:10] <eric_U> I was trying to figure it out and failed
[21:12:40] <dmess> Eric.. Phd in what may i ask??
[21:12:41] <fretless85> how much is the "standard" wage for a cnc machinist? per hour...
[21:12:50] <eric_U> mechanical engineering
[21:13:02] <eric_U> there is a discussion on cnczone about that
[21:13:15] <eric_U> it isn't as much as I thought it would be
[21:13:23] <eric_U> better to be a plumber here
[21:13:31] <fretless85> realy?
[21:13:45] <dmess> our union shop starts at $24 oer hr or so level 6 makes 32.50 without shift premium
[21:13:46] <fretless85> so how much $ we are talking about?
[21:14:05] <eric_U> most of the guys on cnczone were posting numbers less than that
[21:15:02] <fretless85> 24$ isnt that bad
[21:15:20] <dmess> in the real world i can walk into any shop work for 1 week at 30/hr.. and get 42/hr in 1 week.. and a set of keys to the shop.... been ther more than 1 time
[21:16:07] <fretless85> lol
[21:16:24] <dmess> my resume is a pillow...LOL..
[21:17:42] <fretless85> ;)
[21:17:52] <dmess> i have made planes trains automobiles phones vacuum cleaners, GOLD mined for a bit in high school.
[21:18:28] <dmess> you ever drive a toshiba boring mill??
[21:19:29] <dmess> Eric we hav PHD's in our Quality dept that do pretty well
[21:20:12] <fretless85> we got TOS boring mills
[21:20:36] <dmess> they sent 1 down to the machine shop.. he's been sitting nxt to me I almost have the labotamy reversed....
[21:21:17] <dmess> they are sweet machines too.. i TNC 550 or so...
[21:21:44] <fretless85> iTNC530 ;)
[21:22:05] <dmess> ALL the nice cycles??
[21:22:43] <fretless85> most of the new heidenhain cycles are crap
[21:22:56] <dmess> i was Applications eng for Tosiba for 3+ yrs and then moved on to DMG for 2 yrs or so
[21:23:29] <dmess> really.. not the 1's i installed
[21:24:14] <fretless85> i dislike them
[21:24:24] <dmess> hmm good feedback..
[21:24:29] <fretless85> mostly the xxx cycles
[21:24:40] <fretless85> programed by theoretics
[21:25:12] <fretless85> i changed some of them
[21:25:17] <fretless85> and some i just dont use
[21:25:32] <fretless85> and program it in heidenhain "klartext"
[21:25:58] <dmess> WOW...
[21:26:14] <fretless85> ive done some cycles to bore in W on the boring mill
[21:26:53] <fretless85> the W axis is much faster than Z...i dont need to move 15T when i want to bore a hole ;)
[21:27:13] <dmess> all i can say is on my friend MECOF 7 axis machine i can walk thru the cnc programming room and grab a dwg and hit the machine with it and eat it..
[21:28:18] <dmess> sure why not... Toshiba its optoinal z or w... tos it was parameter drive if i do recall
[21:29:16] <fretless85> optional? you can choose if u want to bore in Z or W in the cycle?
[21:29:26] <dmess> we had 1 machine wanted to drill 5/16 dia holes 15 inches deep with the table goining in and out...
[21:30:03] <fretless85> i can bore ??% in Z and ??% in W at the same time with my cycle... if the hole is deeper than the Z or W axis can move alone
[21:30:22] <dmess> was a 4xx series control... a bbbit of a bastard as we say in m/c tool circles
[21:30:56] <dmess> yes the 530 kicks ass.. we had 3 .. 1 had 12 M x
[21:31:14] <fretless85> TNC4xx series is a nice control love to program with it
[21:31:14] <dmess> other 2 were 4 on x and 2.5 y
[21:31:24] <fretless85> the 530 is still buggy tho
[21:33:22] <dmess> has alot to do with machine tool integation too... some do a better job than others... look to see if they are all assembled in the same plc.. we used to hate KYUSHU machines... cuz they were always missing options.. i had to put i
[21:34:33] <dmess> or the math for the t/c macro didnt work in inches..
[21:35:48] <fretless85> lol
[21:37:31] <dmess> door would open.. machine go in and trip EVERY limit it could while in the worst possible place for a quick recovery.... this is a 3M VTL
[21:38:07] <fretless85> that sucks
[21:38:59] <dmess> engaged with the t/c disc... in overprotection area... pullstud still clamped...and all drive need to be referance.... ??? are we having fun yet..
[21:39:14] <fretless85> :D
[21:40:21] <dmess> i loved being a tech.. cuz i'd put the team there before i left from my week of traning.... so the last thing they called me was A-hole..
[21:42:07] <fretless85> nice
[21:42:37] <dmess> but when they called the office it was Mr Messier from then on..
[21:43:58] <fretless85> ;)
[21:44:18] <dmess> otherwise i was on a trip to bumfck nowhere PQ to pull a machine off the limits...
[21:44:34] <fretless85> just a question are you allowed to smoke at work/machine shop?
[21:45:10] <dmess> and drive home again... put 400 K on 3 cars in 3.6 yrs
[21:45:44] <dmess> no smoking in any workplces in ontario possiby canada..
[21:46:16] <fretless85> so even the machines are not allowed to smoke? :D
[21:46:18] <SkullWorks_PGAB> same here in Colorado - (State law)
[21:46:40] <dmess> you mean ONLY
[21:47:32] <fretless85> they are discuss about it here...
[21:48:00] <dmess> its all the guarding on our old fixtue type machines that concern me..
[21:48:45] <fretless85> at the moment we are still allowed to smoke
[21:49:32] <BigJohnT> the only smoking in my shop is when we test the limits of electrical devices
[21:49:34] <SkullWorks_PGAB> The machines where I work are all fitted with 'torit' oil seperators and particle precipitators. Only a bit of vapors/smoke get out during a part change.
[21:50:16] <fretless85> not possible with large machine i work on
[21:50:31] <fretless85> there is no "housing"
[21:50:53] <fretless85> no closed room
[21:51:07] <dmess> we have open-to-enviornment caged protection... CUTTING STEEL MAKES SMOKE/|SMELLS
[21:51:31] <SkullWorks_PGAB> whole shop is airconditioned as part of the ISO 9001 calibration rules and proceedures the company adopted.
[21:51:44] <fretless85> we also got iso9001 here
[21:51:45] <dmess> large gap bed lathe % grinders
[21:51:55] <dmess> us too fret
[21:54:07] <fretless85> but i guess they cant forbid to smoke here...
[21:57:44] <SkullWorks_PGAB> http://www.dnc-x.com/download.html
[21:58:05] <SkullWorks_PGAB> about time...
[21:58:10] <fretless85> dnc?
[21:59:17] <SkullWorks_PGAB> using a PC as a serial program feeder to run programs far beyond the memory limits of commercial machines
[21:59:55] <fretless85> ahh ok
[22:00:06] <fretless85> somewhere i heared dnc
[22:00:18] <fretless85> seamed familiar to me somehow
[22:00:42] <SkullWorks_PGAB> I used to do alot of engraving.
[22:01:43] <SkullWorks_PGAB> had a file that ran 6 hrs was alittle over 8mb in size - cut on a machine with 32K internal mem.
[22:02:13] <fretless85> lol
[22:02:58] <SkullWorks_PGAB> FANUC used to be real proud of there mem.
[22:03:39] <fretless85> ive worked a few years ago with fanuc
[22:05:49] <fretless85> lets get my self a whisky brb
[22:06:16] <BigJohnT> sippin on some homemade wine here
[22:06:29] <fretless85> back
[22:07:02] <dmess> used ALOT on older machines with limited memeory and NO eternet connection
[22:07:28] <fretless85> 12 years old irish single malt here ;)
[22:08:02] <BigJohnT> :-)
[22:08:06] <dmess> ive run 156 Mb finishing code only... drip fed or DNC as she be
[22:08:28] <dmess> Canadian Malted beer here
[22:09:39] <dmess> direct numerical control is what it stands for..
[22:10:08] <SkullWorks_PGAB> Just green tea for me right now, abit too much last night.
[22:10:36] <fretless85> ;)
[22:11:42] <dmess> well his lmit switches are correctly set.. ;)
[22:11:51] <fretless85> ???
[22:12:27] <fretless85> okay now ive got it^^
[22:12:31] <dmess> whenever i get drunk i blame it on a faulty limit switch...
[22:12:44] <fretless85> yea i got you
[22:13:06] <fretless85> when i drink...i mostly crash :D
[22:13:22] <dmess> im a big sleeper too
[22:13:44] <dmess> peaceful lookin drunk..;)
[22:13:47] <fretless85> lol
[22:14:11] <fretless85> and getting painted with an marker by buddys :D
[22:14:18] <fretless85> right? ;)
[22:14:22] <dmess> usually snore like a bastage... so i hear about it in the AM
[22:14:47] <fretless85> ;)
[22:14:59] <fretless85> same here
[22:15:11] <dmess> there are pics of me with a plunger stuck to me ass... i dont care... i can better that at will... ;)
[22:15:35] <dmess> ask me too... ;)
[22:16:36] <fretless85> loooool
[22:17:14] <dmess> way too many ski trips in my past.. ; )
[22:17:24] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra happens to flick past the #emc tab
[22:17:44] <lerneaen_hydra> this isn't exactly what I expected to see... O_o
[22:17:55] <fretless85> haha
[22:18:13] <fretless85> what did you expect?
[22:18:44] <lerneaen_hydra> well, at least not "there are pics of me with a plunger stuck to me ass... i dont care... i can better that at will... ;)"
[22:18:48] <lerneaen_hydra> TMI
[22:18:59] <dmess> working in camps with guys who hang their life for yours and you for them.. anything goes when we got to town....
[22:19:50] <dmess> pls... they are Complementory.... - got my good side..
[22:20:46] <dmess> nice to speak to you again lerneaen_hydra:
[22:21:30] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah been a while :)
[22:22:45] <fretless85> fuck my rips hurt...
[22:23:17] <dmess> their objective was to give me a 4 inch hickie and make me think i brought the LARGE girl home.... like i would care... they brought NO girls home.... i love em all equally.... ;)
[22:23:18] <fretless85> im to dumb to walk and newton is right F=M x G
[22:24:15] <dmess> ribs?? fret??
[22:24:51] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra math/physics nazi grammar level rising
[22:25:00] <lerneaen_hydra> I take it you mean F=M*A
[22:25:15] <fretless85> yea ribs sorry
[22:25:20] <lerneaen_hydra> or F=BxI*L
[22:25:25] <dmess> si.. a little spanish
[22:25:48] <dmess> f=ma
[22:25:55] <fretless85> Force = Mass x acceleration
[22:26:38] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm just used to having x denote cross product and * for normal multiplication ;)
[22:26:47] <fretless85> fell of the machine last week
[22:26:54] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT have seen the dance of the flaming assholes in west african bars...
[22:27:00] <lerneaen_hydra> O_o thats... interesting
[22:27:29] <dmess> i had a recent skiing wipe out... 1st in 24 yrs... YARDSALE... my son drove his snowboard over the back ov my skis then grabbed my legs....
[22:28:39] <eric_U> what's dot product then?
[22:28:41] <fretless85> slipped of the table and fell into the chip conveyor
[22:29:01] <lerneaen_hydra> eric_U; a big fat dot
[22:29:05] <fretless85> and landed on the ribs
[22:29:16] <eric_U> I got no dot on my keyboard
[22:29:16] <dmess> i seen the trees comming.. and made myself little.. now i'm skiing with my hang glinding full face on..
[22:29:22] <fretless85> and with the hands in the chips
[22:29:33] <fretless85> all cut off
[22:29:36] <dmess> cut bad??
[22:29:43] <fretless85> on the way down i bumped my knee on the table
[22:29:58] <dmess> hands??
[22:30:09] <fretless85> not that bad
[22:30:24] <dmess> gloves on?
[22:30:32] <fretless85> ribs and knee are worse
[22:30:37] <fretless85> no gloves
[22:30:56] <dmess> Mechanics Gloves are VERY good ieas..
[22:30:58] <lerneaen_hydra> eric_U; oh you mean for typing with ascii characters?
[22:31:21] <fretless85> yea i got gloves
[22:31:38] <fretless85> but i dont have them on at the time...
[22:31:48] <fretless85> i just want to messure
[22:31:55] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/shw.png this table btw
[22:31:57] <dmess> i hatewhen that happens.....
[22:31:57] <alex_joni> fretless85: let me guess
[22:32:10] <alex_joni> you wanted to measure how far out you can lean before you fall?
[22:32:29] <lerneaen_hydra> that's not the smallest mill(?) I've seen
[22:32:44] <fretless85> no
[22:32:58] <dmess> i can lean ALL the way over... thx to HOT yoga...
[22:32:59] <fretless85> the table is slippery when the "water" is on it
[22:33:28] <fretless85> and thanks for the correction "measure" ;)
[22:33:49] <dmess> fret i under stand.. been there.... big stuff just sucks...
[22:34:04] <eric_U> that workpiece redefines the statement "insert tab A in slot B"
[22:34:24] <fretless85> big stuff rules
[22:34:29] <fretless85> i love to do big stuff
[22:34:37] <dmess> thats still rather small to me..
[22:34:48] <eric_U> looks like it could be a wing spar on a small aircraft?
[22:34:55] <fretless85> no
[22:35:02] <fretless85> welding frame for a truck
[22:35:05] <dmess> steel..no..
[22:35:15] <eric_U> I didn't see it was steel
[22:35:20] <dmess> more like it
[22:35:38] <dmess> i looked and could tell
[22:35:45] <eric_U> just kidding about small :)
[22:36:28] <dmess> our l/ are steel an on aircraft..
[22:36:56] <eric_U> that's because l/g are the most abused parts of the plane
[22:37:03] <eric_U> at least on the flights I take
[22:37:21] <eric_U> "tell the captain everyone's ok back here"
[22:37:38] <dmess> controlled crash....= sucessful landing...
[22:37:41] <fretless85> a few months ago we did some assemble frames for an a380 engine
[22:38:20] <dmess> i seen the a38 forgings last weekend on their way to BFG
[22:38:29] <dmess> A380
[22:39:13] <fretless85> but lets resume...i dont ever want to fall into the chip conveyor
[22:39:28] <dmess> 380 landing gear forgings some pre macining done
[22:39:46] <dmess> nor do i
[22:40:03] <eric_U> I worked with a guy who had the job of crawling into machines to clean out chips
[22:40:40] <dmess> ive had to do the factory investigatio for 2 that werent pretty
[22:40:51] <eric_U> I would think not
[22:41:27] <fretless85> but hey it could been worse...
[22:41:33] <dmess> i re-wrote their ladder diagrams on the spot...
[22:41:44] <fretless85> like i fall and the machine comes...
[22:42:24] <fretless85> 25T with 36000mm/min rapid
[22:42:36] <fretless85> and no bumper on that side
[22:42:49] <dmess> there ARE no safeties for that
[22:43:37] <dmess> tethers are availabl... but not usually ordered or used
[22:44:03] <fretless85> last year someone ran into the tool on an simular machine in duisburg
[22:44:31] <fretless85> an service guy from shw told me about it
[22:46:06] <dmess> we have 1 machine similar to that that has been tied in yellow tape for over 1.5 yrs... gov wont release it... 2.7 M us in 1998 and cant run it....
[22:46:23] <fretless85> why?
[22:46:54] <dmess> they found a guy spinning around the 12" quill
[22:47:05] <fretless85> oh...
[22:47:13] <dmess> had been there quite some time...
[22:47:33] <dmess> more HP than breakers..
[22:52:08] <fretless85> such machines are dangerous no doubt about it...
[22:55:01] <fretless85> the guys in the shop told me im lucky...could be worse... like i said
[22:55:11] <dmess> need the TOP OPERATORS ONLY.//
[22:55:34] <fretless85> what do you mean?
[22:55:39] <dmess> brb
[22:55:50] <dmess> BEST
[22:56:20] <dmess> on the ball ..trained...etc
[22:57:03] <dmess> all components WILL be $$$
[22:58:05] <fretless85> im working with the most skilled operators i know ;)
[23:00:03] <BigJohnT> fret that is a serious welding jig, last time I worked on anything that big was when I was building destroyers in the shipyard
[23:01:26] <BigJohnT> does the operator travel up and down as the Z axis moves?
[23:02:03] <fretless85> its the Y axis
[23:02:29] <fretless85> no its "autonomous"
[23:03:05] <BigJohnT> so Z is horizontal
[23:03:10] <fretless85> right
[23:03:20] <BigJohnT> ok makes sense now
[23:03:57] <fretless85> you would get sooo sick in that thing...
[23:04:11] <BigJohnT> I bet
[23:04:23] <BigJohnT> unless you like that kind of ride
[23:04:38] <fretless85> the x move with 36000mm/min and 1,5m/s² is hard
[23:04:51] <BigJohnT> wow
[23:05:40] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT going to prep the chicken wings
[23:10:11] <fretless85> i need some kind of sport seats in that thing :D
[23:10:22] <fretless85> or a seat belt loool
[23:10:25] <dmess> ours.. IF someone had the misfortune of having to shut down.. took almost an hour to reference..
[23:11:16] <fretless85> lol
[23:11:25] <fretless85> we never shut down it
[23:11:26] <dmess> by the time the thing went PING you were in the rafters with the heaters...
[23:13:09] <fretless85> it runs 365 24/7
[23:13:09] <dmess> we tried to NEVER shut down too.... but when they forget to shut the coolant fill from the tank... and its a pit/floor type machine.... ist just BAD/UGLY...
[23:13:21] <fretless85> we only hit emergency when we go
[23:14:04] <dmess> this had a bastard fanuc 9m.... e-stop... means referenc required
[23:15:11] <dmess> the carriage for the operator went with the control/ spinle..
[23:15:44] <dmess> they filled the pit with coolant 1 time...
[23:16:08] <dmess> entire electrics were submerged....;)
[23:16:23] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:16:29] <Gamma-X> I need a good cheap innoficient way to heat my garage
[23:16:37] <Gamma-X> prefferably no flame..
[23:17:10] <fretless85> burning trashcan? :D
[23:17:15] <dmess> radiant elecrtic heaters and solar panels and used batteries...
[23:17:41] <Gamma-X> dmess are u serious? honestly lol
[23:17:57] <dmess> or a good old fashioned wood stove.. 45 gallon drum cut appropriatly
[23:18:11] <Gamma-X> dmess yeah thats a no gooo on the trash can haha
[23:18:12] <dmess> i'll work..
[23:18:21] <Gamma-X> dmess wich kind of electric heaters?
[23:18:28] <Gamma-X> who sells the cheap ones
[23:18:31] <Gamma-X> or used
[23:18:53] <dmess> i'll ask a friend... he uses them in the yoga studio..
[23:19:22] <Gamma-X> thanks.
[23:19:28] <Gamma-X> im thinkin about these infared heaters
[23:20:03] <dmess> they arent cheap to buy but ARE efficient... he runs the room at 110 degrees f for 2-3 classes a day
[23:21:06] <Gamma-X> will i need to run electric or the solar panels with batterys are good enough?
[23:21:54] <Gamma-X> http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2007/04/26/almost-free-garage-heat-just-drink-a-lot-of-soda/
[23:21:59] <Gamma-X> ahhaha check that out! lol
[23:22:01] <dmess> its ALL electricity.... itll depend on how much you need and have available...
[23:22:42] <BigJohnT> Gamma, get electric socks
[23:23:10] <GNieport> HI all, I'm configuring a g-code generator. Does EMC use End-of-Block codes? I was not able to find the term in the documentation, so I assume no...
[23:23:31] <dmess> im working the HHO route myself for now... i can only put $$ to 1 thing at a tim...
[23:24:52] <dmess> solar panels have been installe on the cottage for a few yrs.. and seem quite OK
[23:25:08] <BigJohnT> I'm working on a g-code generator too
[23:26:02] <dmess> My dad and unckle spent 6 weeks at camp and never started the generator..
[23:26:26] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT ??
[23:26:39] <dmess> BigJ... you looked at APT360???
[23:27:09] <dmess> dont reinvent the wheel..
[23:27:21] <dmess> its ROUND...
[23:29:47] <BigJohnT> not yet
[23:29:55] <BigJohnT> Gamma?
[23:30:17] <dmess> Gamma-X you know of Windham Mountain NY???
[23:31:56] <BigJohnT> dmess I'm making some simple g code generators for things like counterbores...
[23:32:32] <BigJohnT> my fingers hurt from punching the keys on my anilam...
[23:32:55] <dmess> poor guy... ;(
[23:33:27] <BigJohnT> I can type much faster than I can enter programs into my anilam...
[23:33:40] <dmess> but the anilam read g-code too trhuu the back... if a recall..
[23:34:23] <BigJohnT> I just use a floppy
[23:34:40] <BigJohnT> easier than stringing up a cable across the shop
[23:34:50] <dmess> chk out apt 360 under linux/emc...
[23:34:58] <BigJohnT> looking at it now
[23:35:07] <dmess> code goes anywhere...
[23:35:42] <dmess> feeds ANYthing
[23:36:07] <BigJohnT> i only have one thing...
[23:36:46] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
[23:36:58] <dmess> VAPT will be required or advised... its our linux savior...
[23:37:43] <Gamma-X> dmess yes ive hiked it multiple times
[23:38:15] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT gotta go check the deer wings
[23:38:28] <dmess> i have a set of excell sheets to do that stuff for when i wanna cut and paste..
[23:38:55] <Gamma-X> dmess why did u ask that?
[23:38:56] <dmess> skied?? on it>>??
[23:39:01] <micges> logger_emc: bookmark
[23:39:01] <micges> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-02-02.txt
[23:39:41] <Gamma-X> dmess nope but ive hiked on the ski trails lol
[23:40:04] <dmess> i'm heading there in a few weeks with 5 other fools expecting to SKI and BOARD...
[23:40:28] <dmess> how far from you??
[23:41:15] <dmess> does it look like a nice ski??
[23:41:47] <BigJohnT> dmess: you got a link to your excel sheets?
[23:41:55] <BigJohnT> I'd like to see them if possible
[23:41:57] <Gamma-X> dmess uhhh from what ive heard its nice yeah
[23:42:06] <Gamma-X> dmess u good at skiing?
[23:42:13] <dmess> i was worried about crowds... what 1.5-2 hrs from NY city
[23:42:40] <Gamma-X> prolly
[23:42:41] <dmess> yes.. i made the 88 olimpic team.
[23:42:44] <Gamma-X> its in the cat skills
[23:42:55] <dmess> top of the cats
[23:44:00] <dmess> :) BigJohnT: i'll post... but not cleaned up yet
[23:44:52] <BigJohnT> ok
[23:44:55] <BigJohnT> thanks
[23:45:42] <dmess> can i handle it???
[23:46:45] <Gamma-X> ?
[23:48:00] <dmess> i went 112 MPH at mont tremblant in 1996,,, while OVER a good friends shoulder.... whoo asked what sive boot i wore....
[23:48:20] <dmess> SIZE
[23:48:44] <Gamma-X> lol
[23:50:06] <dmess> 10 yrs more experience and strength building.... CRAP i can still ski.. even on these DIFFERENT skis
[23:51:11] <dmess> my norm was 205 cm.... they sold me 163's.... LOL.. i paid for them.. just to say i had a pair...\\\\\\lol
[23:54:19] <Gamma-X> dmess windahm will be easy then
[23:55:11] <dmess> is it busy in this time of yr??
[23:58:11] <tomp> is the std way to use pwm and L298 to toggle the enable ( pwm to l298
[23:58:18] <tomp> 's enable) ?
[23:59:42] <tomp> yep!