noobs gibts ueberall, waren wir ja alle am anfang
ja deswegen bin ich zu denen ja auch meistens net
ich weiß nämlich wie ich angefangen habe mit elektronischen basteleien ohhh ohhh^^
und jetzt hab ich den trafo hier mit nem eurostecker->kroko klemmen->trafo verdrahtet und die krokoklemmen mit tesa aufn tisch geklebt
hoff ich mal dass ich da nciht drankomme
ravennb_: I'm off to bed (here's an hour later).. good night
good night alex
good night all
seems to me a slow update DRO would only really be useful for screw mapping
you could periodically do some kind of homing procedure to check for thermal growth
I thought I was talking to myself, turns out I was right about something for once
if I'm supposed to monitor the integrity of an AC signal, is it necessary to measure both the frequency error and phase angle error?
phase angle relative to what?
might/must be more than single phase
whats a good place to buy some end mills?
i need to buy a small assortment of them
i use j&l in midwest, there's others, and maybe mcmastercarr
tomp cheap? im worried about price mainly
(they;re just down the street ), chaep, but thier chinese stuff
[02:51:37] <tomp2> http://www.jlindustrial.com/cgi/jisrhm
up 2 60% off yesterday and today
maddash, you have to define the metrics by which you are defining integrity
phase isn't important, but power factor is
anyone here secretly hope that yahoo groups goes away?
hey gimme a few types and sizes of endmills to bnuy i have like no bits literally
eric_U: yes but not secretly
I suppose I could just cancel all my memberships :)
anyone? lol please
Gamma-X: 2 flute: 1/8" 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" 3/4" and get a 3/8" ball end
get enco brand, uncoated
try to get a small number of shank sizes
oh and get a 90 degree countersink and 60 degree dovetail if you're feeling lucky
up 2 60 % off today only, free tin coating aswell
what do i use for engraving?
60% off means nothing to me
an engraving bit
fenn how much are the encos do they come in a kit? like with a pretty little box? ahah
not if you're smart
kits are usually crap and you end up with a lot of stuff you never use
buy single endmills
u ever use 4 flute?
and drill some holds in a chunk of 2-by-4 to store them
4 flute is good if you do a lot of steel
2 flute for better chip clearance for hogging
don't use 4 flute for slotting (in any material)
but really a roughing endmill makes hogging much easier
btw Gamma-X any coating will reduce the sharpness (unless you pay a whole lot)
fenn what do u finish off with?
fenn what will the coating do anuyway?
hah i dont have a mill
Gamma-X: for hobby class machinists, my personal opinion is that coatings don't do much
they let production machinist push feeds and speeds a bit higher
and they increase tool life - important when you run 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, or more
the coating is a solid lubricant that works only at high speed
what kind of bit do u use to finish off with?
a sharp one
hiow many flutes?
Gamma-X: I tend to use the same tool for roughing and finishing, cause I don't want to change
however many I need - steel, four or more, aluminum, 3
i don't use anything but 3 flute in aluminum.
not ideal, but my machine is light, so I can't really rough anyway
3 is the most rigid but annoying to measure :P
yeah, that is true
anything else i should get while im at it?
finishing is really just a matter of feed
not really cutter.
unless you're trying to finish with a roughing endmill.
um, get a couple more 1/4" endmills cause you will break them :)
Gamma-X: you have a bport class mill?
pretty much, its a supermax
3hp motor, 32 pnd servos
you have a full set of either collets or endmill holders?
3/4" is the biggest collet, what is the biggest endmill holder you have?
a 'full set' is one of each size? not good for cnc
jmkasunich not sure of the biggest but if need be ill buy one
in R8, I think of a set as being 3/4, 1/2, 3/8, 1/4 and 3/16 - those are the most common tool shank sizes
3/8 and 3/4 are the key ones
if you can afford it, I'd get a rougher and finisher to fit your 3/4 collet or holder
cutting diameter can be 3/4 or 1" or thereabouts
i only plan on doin aluminum for now so 2 flute is good?
those won't be cheap
jmkasunich can u show me an example from enco?
how fast is the spindle
on that bridgeport
I think he said 4600 max
supermax! lol 4200 i think
you can get moving metal pretty damn fast on those
toastydeath: you probably know brands better than me - is putnam any good?
to be honest i've only heard the name in passing, i've never asked what they make.
3/4" dia, 3/4" flute length, enco is $10.48 and probably crap, putnam $22.38, OSG is $46
what some call a 'swedish' end mill is a great hogger, it has a ripply side contour and skipped 'teeth'. look for 'roughing end mill' in j&l
in Gamma's shoes I'd probably buy the putham, unless money is very tight
tomp2: that's what we've been talking about
yeah, don't skimp on endmills or your life will suck
i found a big box of endmills at an antique tool store in maine..
get it! buy a t&c grinder.
i got it
they're all sharp
fenn: really sharp? (like, under a 10x loupe they show no corner wear?)
but a note to whoever has the mill
I've rarely found used endmills to be actually sharp
er.. i dunno
you can spin any size endmill in aluminum at 4200 rpm
as long as you keep a spritz of coolant on it.
toastydeath: we're talking HSS here, not carbide
jmkasunich: i'm talking hss too
i've had 3/4" HSS endmills up that far
that would be 800 SFPM on a 3/4" tool
I don't doubt you have
on a bridgeport.
but would you recommend a beginner do that?
no better time to learn than the present!
keeping it cool and cutting chips, not rubbing, is important at that speed
i'm noting it just so that he realizes there's more space in the machine
than 300 sfm
well doing both those things are easy
jmkasunich: sharp enough to cut my finger on
the upper parts of the flutes are probably quite sharp
that was the corner
and very usable if you are cutting full depth
thats good then
42 IPM is a .005" chipload on 3/4 at 4200 rpm
(not for your finger, but...)
beware rust ( blood rusts fast )
Gamma-X: you still here
also don't run at that speed until you have six months of experience or so
what is your budget for a "starter endmill set"
because bad stuff happens very fast at 42 ipm
for comparison - on my shoptask I just cleaned up the surface of an aluminum piece with a 1/2" endmill, about 1000 RPM, 0.040 depth of cut, and 6 ipm
the machine could have done more, especially in spindle speed
but I'm lazy about changing the v-belts
then your v-belt system is no good?
needs more vfd!
hmm, dog is whining, I think he needs a walk
he knows you need a vfd
and is whining for that
toastydeath: agreed - only a matter of time and money
also for more reference I do things at work that routinely make other people take a step back or two
which is probably a good idea, i wish i could take a step back
but someone has to hold the estop
is there a ttl encoder to parport hal module? ( i want to test a scale and dont wanna drive home to get an STG or Mesa )
I thought there was
i saw jon's ppmc read encoders so i had hope
oh well, 9pm, time to warm up the car anyways
tomp: there is a software encoder counter
you can bring the encoder sigs in thru the parport
it is limited in count speed of course - 10-20KHz depending on your base thread
I've always drilled on a drill press, mostly by feel
anybody know roughly how much feed-per-rev I should have for drilling smallish holes?
smallish = ~1/8"
same as for endmills no?
maybe a little more
drills go down, mills go sideways
yeah but if you keep the same chip per tooth you should be fine
i guess i could just say "i dont know either"
lerman__ is now known as lerman
jmkasunich: I drill alum at 50sfm (1500rpm @ 1/8) and .002 (6ipm)
my (terrible) drill bits have some chance drilling the right size at that very low speed
... he's not here
not all back yet
jmkasunich: I drill alum at 50sfm (1500rpm @ 1/8) and .002 (6ipm)
my (terrible) drill bits have some chance drilling the right size at that very low speed
get some guhring drill bits
send em back when they get dull
I tried the numbers in machinery's - it was quite a failure
toastydeath: at the rate I do things, it takes a long time to get dull
cradek: I'm trying tool length offsets, but I think I have a dilemma
they have you drill aluminum awfully fast
didn't work (at all) for me
300 sfm min, usually
i think the numbers in MH are limits for the tool bits, assuming infinite rigidity of the machine (well compared to hobby sized machines)
I got squawking and a hugely oversize hole
that's a problem with the drill
yeah I know
get a guhring drill, seriously
they're like 15 bucks but if you do a lot of one size, they're the best available
hopefully a #43 isn't $15 ;-)
parabolic, polish flutes, coated, and a split point
I use my sixteenths - numbers - and - letters index all the time, lots of sizes
that would be many $hundreds
I'd rather cut slower
not even a real split point, it's some sort of weird ball endmill looking point
I was about to say the same - a hobbyies doesn't know what size he cuts a lot of
or resharpen the drill so it goes in properly?
although I'd be tempted to invest in good bits in the common tap drill sizes
toastydeath: I've been tempted to try to build a sharpening jig - but drill sharpening seems like such an art
that's what i do - screw machine bits for tap drill sizes
i do it by hand?
yes that's a good idea
works just fine
jmkasunich: what's the TLO problem?
cradek: I have 3.3" of Z travel
if I measure my tool lengths from the spindle nose (easiest way to do it), some are more than 3.3" long
so, if I turn on TLO, my next move will be more than my travel limits
no it won't
(or does my next move have to be a Z move that offsets all or most of the change in length?
first Z move should be to your (compensated) work safety height
an axis doesn't get TLO until you move it
so feel free to G43, G0X..Y.., G0Z[small]
it will do what you want
ok, right now I have no comp in effect
I recently touched off with an endmill
jmkasunich: thanks, will try the encoder counter
but there was no comp in effect then
you would have to measure your tool lengths from that reference length then
now I've updated the tool table and reloaded it
I want to touch off again, this time with TLO in effect
so that all tools will be valid
yes I think you can just do that
just do G43 H<whatevertool>?
mdi g43h[tool], g0z0 (apply comp), then touch off
good evening, all. I have a HAL question. I am am setting up homing to a limit switch. The same limit loop input trips for both Xmin, Xmax, Ymin, Ymax. However, HAL is giving an error that the input pin cannot be linked to two different signals. How do I configure one input to stop either axis for a limit violation?
g0z0 is gonna try to make it move 3.5" if the tool table number for that tool is 3.5"
GNieport1: you link one signal to two pins, not two signals to one pin
maybe touch-off with that length instead of 0?
parport -> signal, signal -> axis.0.whatever, signal -> axis.1.whatever
cradek: you mean before I turn on TLO?
mind if I suggest a different scheme altogether?
yeah, that makes sense
find the longest tool for the job, touch off, make it TLO 0
put the shorter tools in, one at a time, jog Z to touch the same spot, copy those Z values from the screen into the tool table, but negative
now you are guaranteed to have the maximum Z travel available
I can see how it gives me a table that is valid for that job
right, but only for that set of tools
don't see how it optimizes travel - that is a function of how I set up the work
ok I'm thinking of a knee
put the longest tool in, quill mostly up, move the work up to it, call it TLO 0
(that's what I do)
then quill down for the shorter tools
that makes sense
can you send me your knee?
there's only one proper height for your work, it's slightly under the longest tool with the quill up
yeah, sorry about that
anyway, my work is what it is
this is why I eventually want TLO in the knee on mine
and I'm hoping to have a tool table that I don't have to mess with all the time
I understand but that's probably not possible considering your short travel
unless you pick tools VERY carefully
insert any tool, enable TLO for that tool, touch off with that tool, all other tools should work
any drill really screws it up
I have a rather short chuck, and I use endmill holders, not collets for mills, so its not as bad as it could be
right now I have four tools - two drills and two mills, and my range is 2.614 to 3.516
the drills are small and thus short
that sounds surprisingly good
the thing I dislike about (large) positive TLOs is that any move without TLO applied is a spectacular crash
in any case, TLO as nothing to do with whether I can do the job with my tools - that depends only on the diff between longest and shortest tool, and on the position of the work
you are right
with neg TLOs the tool will always be too high, not too low
good point about the crash
but with repeatably interchangable tool holders that index off of the spindle nose, it makes a lot of sense to use the nose as the datum
but with neg TLOs if you get a longer tool you have to redo them all
yes it does
well except you can't touch-off the nose
I can touch off with any tool that I will use in the job
(probably whatever one is the most critical)
someone made a bug report about touch-off with TLO in effect. let me know if you also think it's broken :-)
hmm, I could also do something like subtracting 4.000" from every length number
that would make most or all of them negative
it would be nice to have a probe for touch-off, combined with this scheme
sorry to jump in here; the machine is currently wired with one limit loop that handles both X and Y axes. When I run 'Home' on X EMC faults for a limit violation on Y when the switch trips during the X routine
I guess you could make a 4" long something too then
Do I need to seperate the loops, or is there a workaround
GNieport1: it's possible to fix that with a somewhat advanced hal configuration
I checked the wiki but didn't find anything, did I miss it?
there is an output axis.N.homing that comes on when that axis is homing. You would need to mask the limit signal to the other axes with this signal.
not a problem, thanks
you could do it with a not+and, among other possibly-simpler ways
GNieport1: if you can, it is much nicer if you can separate axes
I COULD do it :)
that lets you do things like homing X and Y at the same time
yes you can definitely do it
(if you don't have enough inputs, then it becomes hard to do)
but it's much nicer if you can home axes simultaneously
excellent, thank you
jmkasunich: an indicator attached solidly to a holder and set so it indicates 4.000" from the spindle nose, used for touch-off, would set all your tools correctly
hmm, I may have to try that
I'm not sure I follow
I'm using the TTS toolholders right now
oh you got those? how are they?
so I can set the tool on the surface plate (on parallels) and measure the spindle-nose to tip distance easily
so far so good
say you have an indicator 4" long
I have a 1/4" jacobs chuck (nice and short), a 1/4" keyless chuck (longer), and two endmill holders
Which document has the full HAL command reference?
put 4-[len] in the tool table
or is it len-4?
anyway, then you could poke the work with the indicator to set all the tools
would the indicator need to have a TTS holder?
I put one of the tools about 0.2" above the work, lay a 1/4" dowel pin down, and raise the tool till the pin rolls under, then touch off at 0.250"
sure it would have to mount so it's 4" long each time
where did 4" come from?
fenn: read back
jmkasunich: That's a pretty good idea
jmkasunich: I use that scheme too, but it requires a pretty flat workpiece
I guess usually it's fine
I've been using a flashlight... pretty damn accurate
jmkasunich's scheme will get you to within your smallest incremental jog
but, often you'll find that on a 4-tooth end mill, the dowel will pass under each tooth on a different increment
cradek: there is a bug with touchoff and TLO
I just enable TLO, the display changed
did you move Z after G43 so it applies?
cradek: While never considering using a drill bit as a measuring tool, the shadow of the light beam at about 6 degrees lets me dial on really well.
then jogged the tool around, touched off with the dowel as described above
oh it doesn't have to apply on a move does it
then moved Y clear of the work, and said G0Z0
it should have gone down 0.25", instead it went up
and the display now says 0.789" for Z
so you do G43H... and the dro changes, right so far?
when you touch-off does the number you type show up in the dro?
thats a good question - I'm so used to it working I'm not sure it did
I can to it again - I'll turn off TLO, move Z, turn it on, and touch off again
I bet not, and that makes me sad because it's going to be a pain
please do check that step
G49 is TLO off, right?
the active modal codes window says G49 right now
Could I use the reset connections as a "start" button with this safety relay? http://www.sti.com/ltr2/access.php?file=pdf/4796.pdf
cradek: what is the syntax of a HAL logic AND
(I haven't issued G49 yet, it should still be G43)
cradek: or even better, NAND
GNieport1: there is no nand
use an and and a not
GNieport1: it's a comp, not part of the language
as opposed to just a regular relay wired in a latching configuration that is
there are man pages for those things
jymmm Are you referring to diagram 4 section h
momentary reset PB
jymmm, the reset button in section h simply will not allow the safety ouput to be energized after A1/A2 cycle until a human pushes a reset button. I.E. principle that machine cannot resume automatic operation without a definite action being taken.
so, yes, reset will energize the ouput
GNieport Ok, so it could be used as the whole estop circuitry - cool
how can i make a preview of the File in EMC2?
is load the prog and then would like to see how it looks like
can you shortly tell about g49 bug ?
(if there is any)
I think that I've grilled my L298 IC's
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-02-02.txt
ok I've changed the L298 an it works
micges: what does the bookmark do?
BigJohnT: logger_emc: bookmark - show logged today talk on #emc channel
BigjohnT: (if you asked about this)
hrhr the electronic works perfect
but I disabled the boost signal cause I grilled 3 L298 Ic's
my stepper motors get hot and this with no mechanic on their axes they are so hot that it hurts your finger when you touch it
ist that normal or what?
steppers usually run hot
but if you put too much current into them they might get too hot
70C is "normal" if your drive doesn't reduce current when stopped
100C would be too hot I think
it reduces current by stop...
can you measure the temperature?
ok I dont have an temperature meter here but I think they were not over 70C
under 70C I would not worry about
you should make sure you are not running higher than rated current
mine are nice hand warmers
I run under rated current
the motors are rated to 2A I run with 1,8-1,9A
how much do you lower current when idle?
lower it by 25% (from 100 to 75) or lower it to 25%?
by 25% from 100 to 75
ok - your motors will still be pretty warm when idle then
I can?t change this it's from my 3D-Step
at 100% current 70C-80C is normal
75% current will lower the power disspation by not quite half
wait a moment.... it lowers to 25%
I've read this in the manual
at 25% current, power dissipation is lower - resistive losses = 6.25% of full current losses
iron losses in the motor mean that total losses don't reduce quite that much
also depends on cooling by conduction through machine
true - unmounted motors will be hotter than mounted ones
hmmm why do unmounted get hotter?
at idle, I'd expect your motors to be 50C or less if mounted
90-100C is where you start to worry
or if they start to smell hot
hmm okay thanks... if I think that they get to hot I'll give them a fan
mount on thick aluminium
yeah I'll do that
thanks a lot
because the unmounted motor has less surface area to dissipate the heat to the air
hmmm which g-code is for spindle on?
for coolant flood on is M8 and M9 for off are there any codes for spindle on off?
for on and which for off?
[16:02:14] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode.html
M3 on clockwise M4 anti M5 stop
hmmm in Axis there is an button for spindle on (clockwise) and off but in manual control M3 and M5 don't work
and M4 don't work either
if the programmed speed =0 it wont turn
hmmm how do I program the speed?
[16:09:05] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode.html
S right?? but what number?
I'm not being mean but you should scan through the g code quick guide
ravennb: if you only control spindle on/off then the S word is of no real use to you
still you need to use a nonzero S word
otherwise the spindle will not turn on
ok i've testet it with 1
that should work too
I've used two lines and it works
* BigJohnT is jumping up and down my SHCS g code generator is almost done
socket head cap screw I think
the code generator does counterbores and such?
sh*t hot cap screws
whats a good set of soft jaws
the ones that actually fit your....
i got one of the enco vises..
the precision vise
Gamma there is a guy on flea bay that sells soft jaws real cost effective
if you have a standard type 6" vise
Gamma-X: you get your mill going?
BigJohnT yeah standard
and no not yet gotta do pid
BigJohnT whats a live center used for?
by standard do you mean you manually crank on the dials?
no i mean its just a regular enco precision vise...
i think i might buy an infared heater
here is where I get my soft jaws http://cgi.ebay.com/6-X-2-X1-ALUMINUM-6-SOFT-JAWS-KURT-CHICK-HAAS-VISE-JAW_W0QQitemZ300194919704QQihZ020QQcategoryZ25297QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
so you have the mill moving under servo power?
BigJohnT yes i just need to tune pid
i know lol thanks.
re: the stepper heat, once the motor gets hot, its quite a mass & may take a long time to cool, so dont be too quick to evaluate 'it got cooler/it stays hot' ( eg slow syns are uncomfortably hot in use and for 10 min after power off)
PUMA.KINS - is there a fixed ratio of the length of each joint segment, or can you just plug the value/ratios into the kin file.
SkullWorks_PGAB: the kins are for a puma560
if you have a different robot you'll have to adapt the strut lengths
(hint: there are some 6*R robots which don't quite fit the puma model, so some extension to the kins need to be made..)
I was thinking of making a 1/3 scale puma stepper powered.
then it can probably work
maybe 1/4 scale after I crunch the numbers
* alex_joni runs home
but I would just be basing my design from simple tape measure readings - I don't have any real design prints to work from yet.
hmm should I 5 miles from here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UMI-RTX-100-light-industrial-robot-arm_W0QQitemZ280195189979QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4660QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
a robot arm
those are the really fast type
archivist: looks way nice :)
grab it if it's under 300 quid
if you don't use it I'll buy it off you :P
hmm tool changer for the cnc :))
thats what I'm thinking for my little stepper puma
there really isn't space to build one on the machine
here is a vid of a simular unit - note the speed http://youtube.com/watch?v=8MVV0snHw_g
SkullWorks_PGAB: scara's are damn fast
sometimes used for pick&place
ew first bidder was a cheapskate
archivist what would u do with that? lol
hahaha how much can they lift?
they are accurate enough for SMT use - just not sure if its worth changing heads - or having a full line of these loading boards
Gamma-X: 2kg on that one
at that price its worth it for the parts
archivist: I suspect it'll go up in the last day
maybe up to 1k
whats 2kg in pounds? im american
probably then its way out of my price range
better have a good hoist - some of those units have a HEAVY base
archivist: ping me tomorrow about it :)
4 pounds thats it?
SkullWorks_PGAB: 10 pounds base
Gamma-X: 60 pounds for the complete robot
at that speed 4 lbs is alot
how much would you want it to pick?
why even buy it? lol
yaw: 120 deg/sec
i want a robot that can pick up my car! lol
the biggest puma typed can pick up 3000lbs
but it weighs about the same :)
that would be sweet
Gamma ha been watching Transformers too much.
that girl was sooo hot 2.
Best in IMAX
[17:41:00] <alex_joni> http://www.kuka.com/en/products/industrial_robots/heavy/kr1000/start.htm
dont got an imax around here
2000 pound payload
9000 pound weight
damn thats scary
* Gamma-X is now known as megatron
I have the KUKA - 'the correct method to pour Beer' video.
brb smoke time, yo im movin out of my dads today, so im not gunna be near my machine!
give it one last hug before you go
see you guys
archivist: talk to you later :)
SkullWorks_PGAB: not quite night.. going home from work
(and yeah, I noticed it's saturday ..)
* SkullWorks_PGAB wonders if he has his head on straight.
* archivist comes to work to play with his cnc
SkullWorks_PGAB: only 8pm here :P
[17:45:06] <BigJohnT> http://951753.pastebin.ca/889094
SHCS g code generated code...
looks like it has errors
lines 11 and 12 hav Identical Y values and different X - on an arc
which IS possible if defining the ends of a cord... but it is not doing that.
did you run it?
the last arc moves the cutter to the center of the hole
line 12 also has a different I value
load the file in EMC and look at the backplot...
does it move between lines 5 and 7 in X/Y?
yes it spirals down
do you have EMC handy
ugh the start and end x and y are the same
a complete circle
no - majic smoke event from pws last week
hmmm want me to post a picture of the backplot?
strange - on many machines it would not move in G90, in G91 it would walk off to the upper right
I've been stuck using only lathes for the last year.
OK - that works
[17:59:03] <Roguish> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Gcode
I know I know rtfm
[18:01:52] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Screenshot-1cbtestngc-AXIS223.png
here is what it does
this path is for counterbores when your endmill diameter is larger than the hole radius
Why start at 11 o'clock?
what do you mean 11 o'clock?
fretless a counter bore
yea i know move in a spiral down with z while x/y does a circle
* SkullWorks_PGAB really needs coffee
with one complete circle at the bottom
in german its named "Bohrfräsen"
"boremilling" ?! *g*
* BigJohnT was googling Bohrfräsen LOL
on the heidenhain its cycle 208 ^^
in cycle 208 when the tool diameter is less than the hole radius what method is used? spiral from out to in or in to out?
it moves to save distance in Z
moves to x on the point of the radius
and stats to dig in with a spiral in z
Sorry John - I been over tired and wasn't reading the code right - and line 12 was doing a 180 degree cord to the center from 9 o'clock not 11 (my bad)
no problem I was circling the wrong direction anyway should have been G2
on the heidenhain u can programm it by hand easy...
I really need to go download my G13 macro from the shop and get it posted.
im not that handy with gcode
simple circle or circle pocket with cutter comp
I'd like to see it
ive got tons of heidenhain programms and cycles and m functions...but thats not usefull here right? ;)
I'm not sure
Haas and Yaznaq use it - I run a Mori Seiki mill with a Fanuc 18m on it - so for me to run there programs I had to make a Macro that does it.
Fanuc has a nice feature where you name the program o9000 to o9010 and there is a parameter that assigns that program a G code
so I put a line that has G13 I.75 Q.25 F75. and it passes the values directly to o9001
and runs it
I want to port it to EMC - its real handy
do you have to move to the xy center of the hole before the g13?
On my version yes - you also have to plunge to depth - this follows the Yaznaq format.
on the Haas version it will move to the X/Y position at a R height then plunge and pocket at incremental depth steps until it reaches the final Z value
than a full cycle...
then it returns to the Z/R height
same on the heidenhain here
a full circle
mine requires a seperate retract command
than it moves to the center with a circle and back out of the hole
I wrote it to run Yaznaq programs when we got an overflow job and all the programs and tooling were provided
I will prolly rework the macro to the Haas method as it does so much more
before posting it for emc
gezar: I'm working on my Counterbore program http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
thanks, it's almost done
does emc have spiral interp?
if you mean a G2 or G3 arc in XY with simultaneous Z move
oh, thats helical
that's what I'm doing for the counterbore program
if spiral means constant Z, increasing radius, then EMC doesn't have that
its an awsome path to have the ability to use, its a 5k upgrade on a fanuc
what g-code does it use, and how do you specify it?
ide be going from memory, let me see if I can find it
and join spiral to helical for tapered threads and Fusee's in clocks
I've uploaded a new screen shot of the program
* BigJohnT is off to a nap
I cant find it jmkasunich
what is the name of the screw that is used to tighten the jaws on a 3 jaw chuck, I cant remember what its called
damnit I cant find it
a sprial is very easy to approximate with arcs (see arcspiral.ngc for example)
[19:09:02] <gezar> http://www.compumachine.com/Support/Downloads/Fadal/GE%20Fanuc/0010__GE_FANUC_User_Manual.pdf
page 54-58 i believe
yep, thats what I was talking about
its awsome to use for facing parts off on a mill
spiral is archimedeian interpolation
OPS bought Ingersoll. Ingersoll unveiled new HiSpeed Mills and EDM in Burbach. Look out Geo Fischer Group! http://www.ops-ingersoll.de/
damn, they had hands on open house Jan 31
ignersoll builds machines?
[20:23:29] <tomp> http://www.ops-ingersoll.de/
we got ingersoll tools at work
i believed they are still owned by the iscar group???
yes iscar ingersoll
or maybe the kennametalgroup... i forget
there are only the 2 left... and the asians..tiger-tek
but we also got kennametall cabide plates
sandvick still has some life but who see's them?
we use their deep hole equipment
we use sanvik for milling
mostly for high alloy steels
what sort of hi-alloy steel do you work with??
mostly Chrome steels
and some X steels
ALL we work with is hi-strength steel.. 300M , aermet100 , super-hy-tuf , etc.. we machine most finished features after h/t so have to go thru NDT...
[20:36:27] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/IMG_0015.jpg
[20:36:31] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/IMG_0014.jpg
nice lookin parts...
and the axle
[20:37:34] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/00001.jpg
what s/ware you program in??
[20:38:05] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/00002.jpg
[20:38:09] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/00003.jpg
what machine is 00001 on??
the axle is 50CrMo+QT
programmed on the machine??
yes programmed by hand on the machine
the machine is a zayer 4000 in X
cudo's.. there are still some of ME out there... ; )
i hopped on a friends MECOF recently and his operators looked at me like i was GOD on water...
congratulations... your 1 of the good guys..;)
[20:40:48] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/test/RIMG1372.JPG
all they have ever had to do is run spoonfed g-codes from his many cad/cam systems...
i hate cam programms...
unless i made them i do to... mine i hit start and d go home on..
come back in the am to a finished part.. made many a mould while not there... watch the ruffin'.. let her finish herself..
i would hate to mill with cam programms...
that gear to me is all the same code over and over... so even in APT360 its a breeze for me to program
thank god that our parts are to complex to program it with an cam
i could do anything in the right cam....there is no TOO complex...
when the cam takes longer than making by hand then....
want a copy of bob cad LOL
your using the wrong cam
dmess: what's your favorite cam
mine is called head and fingers
favorite or most dedicated to??
I wish I could figure out how to make the cam on Pro/E work, that would be free
apt360 is and will always be my 1st love.... 2nd Catia R16... i can run it thrun apt 360 to make it do what I WANT... 3rd Cimatron pre-Elite .. it was just SOOO farr ahead of its time THEN.. i still love roughin with it.. 5 clicks and waterline code to within .1"
much prefer solidworks though
I wish solidworks would have cam
sworks with cam is called CATIA
I just give my model to the machinist and he uses mastercam to convert
mastercam is a workhourse too
doesnt' help at home though
yea, I can get my g code fast from master cam
cheap easy to learn many colleges taught it here
I don't know if they teach it around here
george brown college, durham , northern,
it's not interesting enough for them to teach it to engineers here
which is very shortsighted
some high schools had intro cources to prep for college
engineering tecnician's and technologists... ( 2 yrs vs 3 yr courses )
now that you mention it, I think my daughter can take it
she was taking some kind of drafting
i learned 5 axis APT @ george brown college
it's funny, students trying to get into fancy colleges cant take those courses because there is no honors programs
they take health and drivers ed by correspondence so that doesn't go onto their transcript
i hit the bricks with a 4.0 gpa.. had my choice of paths and went into the machine shop...
never regreted it... for 1 second..
perfect gpa here is 5.0 out of 4.0
i ran 4.1 til the last semester..
who said i was perfect...
I thought you did
pulled a perfect ZERO on 1 major in the last semester... but that'll happen when ya try and cheat...
I thought about going into machining, but the only machinist I knew had to work 60 hours a week, decided that wasn't going to work for me
60houts per week? oh my god
how much do you work?
we got 36.5 per week
ive had 100 hour weeks on some projects...
well, working 60 hours a week is counterproductive in my book, but employers look at it differently
but you can work more...but its up to you
36.5-40 you get 25% added
40>you get 50% added
i went to our east coast last year... parts were 6 weeks delivery.... i brought home parts in 11 days... 154 hours on the clock...
and 10% add for shift
I went to an aircraft factory in Belgium, they were getting off at noon on Friday
there were 5 aircraft on the line waiting for them...
same here eric
we get time and a half after 44
we work 37 hrs a week where i am now too
too bad I'm too old to move to Europe :)
Canada wouldn't take me either
im thinking about a job in Russia/Siberia..
I would be a superstar if I only had to work 37 hours a week
oh come on canada takes anyboby
yeah, up until 48
nay youd be bored or a drunk.. like me
how much do you work eric?
minimum 50 hours
pretty much comes with the territory with a Ph.D. in the U.S.
for how much the hour? (if you like to tell)
not enough :)
i just want to compare ;)
this shop was a shock to me... ive only known 50-60 hr weeks for the last 18 yrs... all of a sudden theres my wife...huh..
you can wisper it to me, if you want to
well, since my pay is in American pesos, it's looking kinda light nowadays
mine is in euro so? ;)
what do you want.... to do what... i think i gotta go to the shop for a bit..
funny thing is, I'm not sure how much I'm making :)
ya the russian job is in US pecos... and for 5 years... thats kind of a sentence for $$$ but what the hell ive been serving a sentence here anyway and for no pay..
I was trying to figure it out and failed
Eric.. Phd in what may i ask??
how much is the "standard" wage for a cnc machinist? per hour...
there is a discussion on cnczone about that
it isn't as much as I thought it would be
better to be a plumber here
our union shop starts at $24 oer hr or so level 6 makes 32.50 without shift premium
so how much $ we are talking about?
most of the guys on cnczone were posting numbers less than that
24$ isnt that bad
in the real world i can walk into any shop work for 1 week at 30/hr.. and get 42/hr in 1 week.. and a set of keys to the shop.... been ther more than 1 time
my resume is a pillow...LOL..
i have made planes trains automobiles phones vacuum cleaners, GOLD mined for a bit in high school.
you ever drive a toshiba boring mill??
Eric we hav PHD's in our Quality dept that do pretty well
we got TOS boring mills
they sent 1 down to the machine shop.. he's been sitting nxt to me I almost have the labotamy reversed....
they are sweet machines too.. i TNC 550 or so...
ALL the nice cycles??
most of the new heidenhain cycles are crap
i was Applications eng for Tosiba for 3+ yrs and then moved on to DMG for 2 yrs or so
really.. not the 1's i installed
i dislike them
hmm good feedback..
mostly the xxx cycles
programed by theoretics
i changed some of them
and some i just dont use
and program it in heidenhain "klartext"
ive done some cycles to bore in W on the boring mill
the W axis is much faster than Z...i dont need to move 15T when i want to bore a hole ;)
all i can say is on my friend MECOF 7 axis machine i can walk thru the cnc programming room and grab a dwg and hit the machine with it and eat it..
sure why not... Toshiba its optoinal z or w... tos it was parameter drive if i do recall
optional? you can choose if u want to bore in Z or W in the cycle?
we had 1 machine wanted to drill 5/16 dia holes 15 inches deep with the table goining in and out...
i can bore ??% in Z and ??% in W at the same time with my cycle... if the hole is deeper than the Z or W axis can move alone
was a 4xx series control... a bbbit of a bastard as we say in m/c tool circles
yes the 530 kicks ass.. we had 3 .. 1 had 12 M x
TNC4xx series is a nice control love to program with it
other 2 were 4 on x and 2.5 y
the 530 is still buggy tho
has alot to do with machine tool integation too... some do a better job than others... look to see if they are all assembled in the same plc.. we used to hate KYUSHU machines... cuz they were always missing options.. i had to put i
or the math for the t/c macro didnt work in inches..
door would open.. machine go in and trip EVERY limit it could while in the worst possible place for a quick recovery.... this is a 3M VTL
engaged with the t/c disc... in overprotection area... pullstud still clamped...and all drive need to be referance.... ??? are we having fun yet..
i loved being a tech.. cuz i'd put the team there before i left from my week of traning.... so the last thing they called me was A-hole..
but when they called the office it was Mr Messier from then on..
otherwise i was on a trip to bumfck nowhere PQ to pull a machine off the limits...
just a question are you allowed to smoke at work/machine shop?
and drive home again... put 400 K on 3 cars in 3.6 yrs
no smoking in any workplces in ontario possiby canada..
so even the machines are not allowed to smoke? :D
same here in Colorado - (State law)
you mean ONLY
they are discuss about it here...
its all the guarding on our old fixtue type machines that concern me..
at the moment we are still allowed to smoke
the only smoking in my shop is when we test the limits of electrical devices
The machines where I work are all fitted with 'torit' oil seperators and particle precipitators. Only a bit of vapors/smoke get out during a part change.
not possible with large machine i work on
there is no "housing"
no closed room
we have open-to-enviornment caged protection... CUTTING STEEL MAKES SMOKE/|SMELLS
whole shop is airconditioned as part of the ISO 9001 calibration rules and proceedures the company adopted.
we also got iso9001 here
large gap bed lathe % grinders
us too fret
but i guess they cant forbid to smoke here...
[21:57:44] <SkullWorks_PGAB> http://www.dnc-x.com/download.html
using a PC as a serial program feeder to run programs far beyond the memory limits of commercial machines
somewhere i heared dnc
seamed familiar to me somehow
I used to do alot of engraving.
had a file that ran 6 hrs was alittle over 8mb in size - cut on a machine with 32K internal mem.
FANUC used to be real proud of there mem.
ive worked a few years ago with fanuc
lets get my self a whisky brb
sippin on some homemade wine here
used ALOT on older machines with limited memeory and NO eternet connection
12 years old irish single malt here ;)
ive run 156 Mb finishing code only... drip fed or DNC as she be
Canadian Malted beer here
direct numerical control is what it stands for..
Just green tea for me right now, abit too much last night.
well his lmit switches are correctly set.. ;)
okay now ive got it^^
whenever i get drunk i blame it on a faulty limit switch...
yea i got you
when i drink...i mostly crash :D
im a big sleeper too
peaceful lookin drunk..;)
and getting painted with an marker by buddys :D
usually snore like a bastage... so i hear about it in the AM
there are pics of me with a plunger stuck to me ass... i dont care... i can better that at will... ;)
ask me too... ;)
way too many ski trips in my past.. ; )
* lerneaen_hydra happens to flick past the #emc tab
this isn't exactly what I expected to see... O_o
what did you expect?
well, at least not "there are pics of me with a plunger stuck to me ass... i dont care... i can better that at will... ;)"
working in camps with guys who hang their life for yours and you for them.. anything goes when we got to town....
pls... they are Complementory.... - got my good side..
nice to speak to you again lerneaen_hydra:
yeah been a while :)
fuck my rips hurt...
their objective was to give me a 4 inch hickie and make me think i brought the LARGE girl home.... like i would care... they brought NO girls home.... i love em all equally.... ;)
im to dumb to walk and newton is right F=M x G
* lerneaen_hydra math/physics nazi grammar level rising
I take it you mean F=M*A
yea ribs sorry
si.. a little spanish
Force = Mass x acceleration
I'm just used to having x denote cross product and * for normal multiplication ;)
fell of the machine last week
* BigJohnT have seen the dance of the flaming assholes in west african bars...
O_o thats... interesting
i had a recent skiing wipe out... 1st in 24 yrs... YARDSALE... my son drove his snowboard over the back ov my skis then grabbed my legs....
what's dot product then?
slipped of the table and fell into the chip conveyor
eric_U; a big fat dot
and landed on the ribs
I got no dot on my keyboard
i seen the trees comming.. and made myself little.. now i'm skiing with my hang glinding full face on..
and with the hands in the chips
all cut off
on the way down i bumped my knee on the table
not that bad
ribs and knee are worse
Mechanics Gloves are VERY good ieas..
eric_U; oh you mean for typing with ascii characters?
yea i got gloves
but i dont have them on at the time...
i just want to messure
[22:31:55] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/shw.png
this table btw
i hatewhen that happens.....
fretless85: let me guess
you wanted to measure how far out you can lean before you fall?
that's not the smallest mill(?) I've seen
i can lean ALL the way over... thx to HOT yoga...
the table is slippery when the "water" is on it
and thanks for the correction "measure" ;)
fret i under stand.. been there.... big stuff just sucks...
that workpiece redefines the statement "insert tab A in slot B"
big stuff rules
i love to do big stuff
thats still rather small to me..
looks like it could be a wing spar on a small aircraft?
welding frame for a truck
I didn't see it was steel
more like it
i looked and could tell
just kidding about small :)
our l/ are steel an on aircraft..
that's because l/g are the most abused parts of the plane
at least on the flights I take
"tell the captain everyone's ok back here"
controlled crash....= sucessful landing...
a few months ago we did some assemble frames for an a380 engine
i seen the a38 forgings last weekend on their way to BFG
but lets resume...i dont ever want to fall into the chip conveyor
380 landing gear forgings some pre macining done
nor do i
I worked with a guy who had the job of crawling into machines to clean out chips
ive had to do the factory investigatio for 2 that werent pretty
I would think not
but hey it could been worse...
i re-wrote their ladder diagrams on the spot...
like i fall and the machine comes...
25T with 36000mm/min rapid
and no bumper on that side
there ARE no safeties for that
tethers are availabl... but not usually ordered or used
last year someone ran into the tool on an simular machine in duisburg
an service guy from shw told me about it
we have 1 machine similar to that that has been tied in yellow tape for over 1.5 yrs... gov wont release it... 2.7 M us in 1998 and cant run it....
they found a guy spinning around the 12" quill
had been there quite some time...
more HP than breakers..
such machines are dangerous no doubt about it...
the guys in the shop told me im lucky...could be worse... like i said
need the TOP OPERATORS ONLY.//
what do you mean?
on the ball ..trained...etc
all components WILL be $$$
im working with the most skilled operators i know ;)
fret that is a serious welding jig, last time I worked on anything that big was when I was building destroyers in the shipyard
does the operator travel up and down as the Z axis moves?
its the Y axis
no its "autonomous"
so Z is horizontal
ok makes sense now
you would get sooo sick in that thing...
unless you like that kind of ride
the x move with 36000mm/min and 1,5m/s² is hard
* BigJohnT going to prep the chicken wings
i need some kind of sport seats in that thing :D
or a seat belt loool
ours.. IF someone had the misfortune of having to shut down.. took almost an hour to reference..
we never shut down it
by the time the thing went PING you were in the rafters with the heaters...
it runs 365 24/7
we tried to NEVER shut down too.... but when they forget to shut the coolant fill from the tank... and its a pit/floor type machine.... ist just BAD/UGLY...
we only hit emergency when we go
this had a bastard fanuc 9m.... e-stop... means referenc required
the carriage for the operator went with the control/ spinle..
they filled the pit with coolant 1 time...
entire electrics were submerged....;)
good night all
I need a good cheap innoficient way to heat my garage
prefferably no flame..
burning trashcan? :D
radiant elecrtic heaters and solar panels and used batteries...
dmess are u serious? honestly lol
or a good old fashioned wood stove.. 45 gallon drum cut appropriatly
dmess yeah thats a no gooo on the trash can haha
dmess wich kind of electric heaters?
who sells the cheap ones
i'll ask a friend... he uses them in the yoga studio..
im thinkin about these infared heaters
they arent cheap to buy but ARE efficient... he runs the room at 110 degrees f for 2-3 classes a day
will i need to run electric or the solar panels with batterys are good enough?
[23:21:54] <Gamma-X> http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2007/04/26/almost-free-garage-heat-just-drink-a-lot-of-soda/
ahhaha check that out! lol
its ALL electricity.... itll depend on how much you need and have available...
Gamma, get electric socks
HI all, I'm configuring a g-code generator. Does EMC use End-of-Block codes? I was not able to find the term in the documentation, so I assume no...
im working the HHO route myself for now... i can only put $$ to 1 thing at a tim...
solar panels have been installe on the cottage for a few yrs.. and seem quite OK
I'm working on a g-code generator too
My dad and unckle spent 6 weeks at camp and never started the generator..
BigJ... you looked at APT360???
dont reinvent the wheel..
Gamma-X you know of Windham Mountain NY???
dmess I'm making some simple g code generators for things like counterbores...
my fingers hurt from punching the keys on my anilam...
poor guy... ;(
I can type much faster than I can enter programs into my anilam...
but the anilam read g-code too trhuu the back... if a recall..
I just use a floppy
easier than stringing up a cable across the shop
chk out apt 360 under linux/emc...
looking at it now
code goes anywhere...
i only have one thing...
[23:36:46] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
VAPT will be required or advised... its our linux savior...
dmess yes ive hiked it multiple times
* BigJohnT gotta go check the deer wings
i have a set of excell sheets to do that stuff for when i wanna cut and paste..
dmess why did u ask that?
skied?? on it>>??
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-02-02.txt
dmess nope but ive hiked on the ski trails lol
i'm heading there in a few weeks with 5 other fools expecting to SKI and BOARD...
how far from you??
does it look like a nice ski??
dmess: you got a link to your excel sheets?
I'd like to see them if possible
dmess uhhh from what ive heard its nice yeah
dmess u good at skiing?
i was worried about crowds... what 1.5-2 hrs from NY city
yes.. i made the 88 olimpic team.
its in the cat skills
top of the cats
:) BigJohnT: i'll post... but not cleaned up yet
can i handle it???
i went 112 MPH at mont tremblant in 1996,,, while OVER a good friends shoulder.... whoo asked what sive boot i wore....
10 yrs more experience and strength building.... CRAP i can still ski.. even on these DIFFERENT skis
my norm was 205 cm.... they sold me 163's.... LOL.. i paid for them.. just to say i had a pair...\\\\\\lol
dmess windahm will be easy then
is it busy in this time of yr??
is the std way to use pwm and L298 to toggle the enable ( pwm to l298
's enable) ?