#emc | Logs for 2008-01-24

[00:00:35] <Gamma-X> HELLO!
[00:02:37] <Gamma-X> what i get no love?
[00:05:41] <Jymm> Did you pay for love?
[00:06:07] <Gamma-X> haha.... in dubai someone else did once....
[00:06:11] <Gamma-X> for me.
[00:06:25] <Gamma-X> i think my hal is all set to go....
[00:06:53] <Gamma-X> question, the 10volts on the 7i33 comes directly from the card and not an outside source correct?
[00:09:21] <jepler> Gamma-X: yes. there is only a small amount of output current available, leading to the Minimimum aout load resistance of 5k ohm (page 8 of manual)
[00:10:41] <Gamma-X> thanks jepler ur my savior
[00:11:11] <Jymm> is qcad 3d?
[00:11:22] <jepler> Jymm: no
[00:11:27] <jepler> it's about 1.5d actually </snark>
[00:11:45] <Jymm> jepler: I need to open a 3d dxf file, suggestions?
[00:14:18] <Gamma-X> anyone have experience on hookin a vfd up the the mesa's>
[00:21:15] <chrispol> Hey guys, can mxxx codes be used to run a gcode routine?
[00:22:56] <cradek> no, "Oxxx call"
[00:23:16] <chrispol> that runs as a subroutine i guess?
[00:25:05] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#r5_1
[00:27:35] <chrispol> right looked at it, basically i want to run a ngc file whenever a tool change is called
[00:28:14] <cradek> that is not currently possible
[00:28:53] <cradek> there is support for moving to a fixed tool change location, and then signalling HAL to do the tool change, then waiting for HAL to report finished
[00:29:30] <chrispol> ok thge othe way would be in my post processor to replace the tool change with my macro
[00:29:58] <cradek> yes if your gcode only comes from one "source" changing that source can be very powerful
[00:30:33] <chrispol> ok will try it that way, just moving over from mach
[00:30:35] <cradek> just curious: what would your subroutine do?
[00:31:22] <chrispol> turn off spindle, move to a fixed point in machine coords, wait for cycle start, probe feed, change offset, retract, then move to 0,0,0
[00:31:28] <chrispol> start spindle
[00:31:59] <Jymm> Hmmmm found FreeCAD
[00:32:08] <Jymm> 3d like solid works
[00:32:23] <cradek> chrispol: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc?rev=1.4
[00:32:33] <chrispol> yep thats what i was looking at
[00:32:36] <cradek> here is how I do tool length probing
[00:32:37] <cradek> oh
[00:32:53] <cradek> it's true you could wrap those into a subroutine
[00:32:59] <cradek> it would look a little cleaner
[00:33:00] <chrispol> i do the same in mach but they have a m6start/end macro basically pauses for a cycle start between
[00:33:24] <cradek> are you using the axis_manualtoolchange?
[00:33:31] <chrispol> nope nothing yet
[00:33:35] <cradek> it prompts you with the tool number and waits for your confirmation
[00:33:45] <chrispol> but does it do probing?
[00:34:02] <cradek> no, but it does the wait after moving to the toolchange position
[00:34:16] <chrispol> k, need probing
[00:34:24] <cradek> I understand, it's only a part of the puzzle
[00:34:27] <chrispol> editing the post processor is pretty painless
[00:35:06] <chrispol> axis & vesa the realtime display does not update is this normal?
[00:35:28] <cradek> what do you mean realtime display
[00:35:41] <chrispol> where you see the toolpath & tool
[00:35:53] <cradek> no, not normal, it works fine
[00:36:14] <chrispol> i can pan / zoom but if i move the tool around it doesn't move
[00:36:16] <cradek> vesa will update a tad slower than some of the other drivers
[00:36:37] <cradek> does it draw the line?
[00:36:41] <chrispol> nope
[00:36:50] <cradek> but the cone stays in one place?
[00:36:54] <chrispol> i can pageup 5" and it's still static
[00:36:57] <chrispol> yep
[00:37:04] <cradek> I've never seen that
[00:37:07] <cradek> the cone should move when you jog
[00:37:09] <chrispol> lol
[00:37:18] <cradek> does the XYZ readout change?
[00:37:23] <chrispol> yep
[00:37:32] <chrispol> a bit slow but thats prolly the vesa
[00:37:39] <cradek> huh
[00:37:56] <cradek> when you load some gcode do you see a preview of white lines?
[00:38:58] <cradek> I have to run, back later
[00:42:12] <chrispol> yep it updates
[00:44:28] <GNieport> Gamma-X: http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04865.html
[00:44:38] <GNieport> Gamma-X: might be a start
[00:44:49] <GNieport> Gamma-X: I need to figure this out too
[00:45:46] <GNieport> Gamma-X: I am waiting on a new 7i33, I believe I let the smoke out by pulling ENA0 low.
[00:46:20] <Gamma-X> GNieport thanks
[00:46:57] <GNieport> Gamma-X: don't pull ENAx low, lol
[00:56:55] <skunkworks633> skunkworks633 is now known as skunkworks
[13:10:32] <alex_joni> it doesn't handle netsplits particulary well
[13:13:13] <archivist> my bot has trouble with netsplits sometimes
[13:13:59] <archivist> went to see the new solidworks 2008 this morning, I want
[13:14:27] <alex_joni> archivist: cheapish?
[13:14:28] <alex_joni> :P
[13:15:08] <archivist> someone said about £4k, but didnt ask the salesman myself
[13:16:08] <archivist> some nice additions to the user interface and functionality
[13:19:12] <archivist> I wish I could put the time and effort into brlcads terrible interface to bring it into at least last century
[13:21:46] <alex_joni> archer is not _that_ bad
[13:21:51] <alex_joni> it's still miles away though
[13:41:13] <skunkworks168> Good morning
[13:41:25] <archivist> good moaning
[13:42:09] <skunkworks168> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=398844&postcount=164
[13:42:18] <skunkworks168> How is the afternoon in the uk?
[13:43:52] <skunkworks168> I have no clue what version of emc he is using.. But interesting none the less.
[13:52:10] <archivist> hmm cnczone is a bit(lot) broken for me
[13:56:57] <skunkworks168> yes - it seems to be back up now though.. must have been a hickup
[13:57:06] <skunkworks168> skunkworks168 is now known as skunkworks_
[13:58:21] <archivist> heh I get done but not the page!
[13:58:44] <skunkworks_> odd
[13:59:24] <skunkworks_> yes - they are down again :)
[14:00:18] <archivist> hmm broked it
[14:09:23] <archivist> cnczone fixed now!!
[14:13:42] <archivist> makes one not want certain other software
[14:15:04] <skunkworks_> heh - I have never tried it yet. I really have no drive to do so.
[14:15:18] <skunkworks_> drive might be the wrong word
[14:15:20] <skunkworks_> ;)O
[14:18:55] <skunkworks_> cnczone seems to be up and down this morning
[14:19:56] <archivist> hmm had morning off, dinner, damn time to do some work
[14:20:32] <archivist> at least the tea boy is absent so he cant see how hard I dont work
[14:28:24] <skunkworks_> Guest275: hello
[14:34:08] <Guest275> Howdy folks. I'm looking for some advice. I recently acquired a cnc router at an auction. The problem is that its low price did not include software. From what little I can figure outeverything is controlled by an aptly colored black box that my computer would connect to. Inside the machine, along with the largest capacitors I've ever seen are two controlling boards, one of which I've managed to track down over the web. The other is apparently home-br
[14:35:06] <SWPadnos> that stopped at "The other is apparently home-br" ...
[14:36:49] <Guest275> oops. sorry. I'd like to the get thing running under emc and I'm wondering what to do next, as you might guess I have limited cnc experience.
[14:37:50] <SWPadnos> heh - no problem
[14:38:24] <SWPadnos> I think it'll be electronics experience that you need, if you want to use the boards you have
[14:39:02] <BigJohnT> so the board you have tracked down what is it?
[14:39:53] <Guest275> I am in no way married to the boards that are therre, the one that I can identify is a pcs-100 manufactured by a company in san diego.
[14:40:25] <BigJohnT> Is it a stepper system?
[14:41:02] <fretless85> hey
[14:41:18] <BigJohnT> hey
[14:41:23] <SWPadnos> ahoy
[14:41:27] <Guest275> if by stepper system you mean stepper motors, yes, there are xyz axes controlled by stepper motors
[14:41:50] <SWPadnos> Guest275, can you post a link to the PCS-100 company/product page?
[14:42:26] <Guest275> yes, it'll take me a minute or two...
[14:42:57] <BigJohnT> just my 2c it might be faster to just use some componets that are known to work with emc2
[14:43:22] <SWPadnos> it's very likely that what's there takes step/dir, so it's probably fine
[14:43:38] <SWPadnos> if it's some serial/SPI thing, that's another story
[14:43:44] <BigJohnT> yep
[14:46:09] <Guest275> arggh, SWPadnos, I'm literally getting caught by bell and have to run to class, I'll try back later, thanks
[14:46:18] <SWPadnos> well OK then
[14:46:29] <cradek> fwiw, google doesn't know what a PCS-100 is
[14:46:49] <SWPadnos> yeah - I found a few, but they probably weren't the right thing
[14:46:57] <SWPadnos> tool breakage sensors
[14:47:51] <BigJohnT> bbl, off to the factories to make money...
[14:55:36] <skunkworks_> money? who needs money?
[14:56:46] <archivist> me
[14:57:09] <archivist> an ebay habit and taxes
[14:58:30] <jepler> yeah I was tempted to answer skunkworks_'s question by saying "ebay". clearly it needs (my) money
[15:01:07] <archivist> lots of boys toys to be had!
[15:01:21] <ALS> ebay support group
[15:10:08] <Jymm> skunkworks: Insert credit card here --> [ ]
[15:13:02] <ALS> jymm: u metioned free 3d cad? yesterday
[15:13:15] <Jymm> ALS: yep
[15:13:31] <ALS> any good
[15:14:58] <Jymm> ALS: It's still alpha and wouldn't the version I have wouldn't open a DXF file... http://juergen-riegel.net/FreeCAD/Docu/index.php?title=Main_Page
[15:17:34] <Jymm> ALS: Just found this http://www.le-boite.com/minos.htm
[15:18:57] <skunkworks_> free and free... There is alibre. I have only slightly played with it. I know alex likes it. and it is free but not open.
[15:19:37] <skunkworks_> but micro$oft
[15:19:59] <Jymm> minos is nox
[15:20:03] <Jymm> nix
[15:20:36] <Jymm> http://www.freecad.com/
[15:22:31] <Jymm> This is pathetic, makes me sick! http://hof.povray.org/images/mouille.jpg
[15:27:36] <ALS> tks jymm
[15:27:46] <Jymm> np
[15:28:26] <skunkworks_> http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z3O6yJ5AYJU
[15:29:17] <BigJohnT> I've played with alibre and it's not solidworks but close
[15:29:54] <Jymm> BigJohnT: Does it allow you to enter a dimension like: 4-2.5 ?
[15:30:33] <Jymm> skunkworks_: I dont have audio, was there anything special about that video?
[15:30:40] <BigJohnT> Jymm, I have not tried it but I'm heading out the door and can try when I get back...
[15:30:46] <BigJohnT> bbl
[15:31:03] <Jymm> hasta
[15:31:04] <archivist> BigJohnT, I went to a sales seminar for solidworks 2008 this morning!
[15:31:50] <Jymm> archivist and what was the seminar special discount price?
[15:31:55] <archivist> 0
[15:32:00] <Jymm> lol
[15:32:02] <skunkworks_> Jymm: no. Just emc running some steppers
[15:32:13] <Jymm> skunkworks ty
[15:32:32] <archivist> jymm seminaers are free, the uber software sadly not
[15:32:44] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:32:51] <SWPadnos> it's up to $6k or so, I think
[15:33:00] <Jymm> skunkworks I am curious at what that breakout board was in that video.
[15:33:20] <archivist> SWPadnos, someone said £4k over here
[15:33:33] <SWPadnos> well, you guys always pay more ;)
[15:33:35] <Jymm> archivist Well, anything impressive in SW2008?
[15:33:52] <archivist> yes
[15:34:00] <Jymm> like?
[15:34:00] <SWPadnos> Jymm, it says "the Hobby CNC board"
[15:35:50] <Jymm> Ah, it's unipolar
[15:36:06] <skunkworks_> Jymm: it has stepper drivers on it and such
[15:36:23] <archivist> Jym lofting, editing dimensions in 2d and 3d updated ,finite elements was ok, and linking parts which have multiple parts of the design (eg3 arms)
[15:36:27] <skunkworks_> not your fathers breakout board..
[15:36:32] <skunkworks_> ;)
[15:37:03] <SWPadnos> yeah, but can it save to an older version file format?
[15:37:15] <Jymm> skunkworks Yeah, it's just that I've looked at all the BOB's out there and hadn't seen that one is all, it drive unipolar motor explain why I hadn't seen it before =)
[15:37:32] <archivist> SWPadnos, dunno didnt ask
[15:37:41] <SWPadnos> well, I'm pretty sure the answer is no
[15:37:54] <SWPadnos> if they did that, then some people could get away with not upgrading every year
[15:38:25] <archivist> actually they were taking the p out of autocad for that so perhaps can
[15:38:55] <SWPadnos> that would be a reversal for them, they're worse than anyone in that regard
[15:40:05] <Jymm> Interesting.... http://www.hobbycnc.com/autoheat.php
[15:43:50] <Jymm> $41 shipped doesn't seem too shabby for heat control
[15:49:56] <skunkworks_> cnczone: We are upgrading software, AGAIN be back in 15 mins.
[15:54:40] <Jymm> I love it... How can you do a true hidden line so fast ? There is no specific secret. Normally a hidden line algorithm is a N * N complexity algorithm (two embedded loops). But if you add rejections and sorts you can drop down to N * sqrt (N) and lower N * ln (N) . Then add good geometric rejections and you have a fast algorithm. But the major secret is to work on a very slow computer. MINOS has been created on a 286 x 10 PC !
[15:56:44] <SWPadnos> heh -0 I truly believe that if programmers weren't handed shiny new fast PCs, software would be a lot more efficient
[15:57:07] <Jymm> here here
[15:57:32] <cradek> it doesn't always work - sometimes they just complain
[15:57:54] <cradek> "why do compiles take so long? all we did was switch to C++"
[15:58:04] <cradek> oh wait was that a trade secret?
[15:58:55] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:59:13] <archivist> * archivist remembers the days of maths on a 6502
[15:59:57] <SWPadnos> ldx #221
[16:00:16] <SWPadnos> yadda yadda ;)
[16:01:16] <archivist> I did a torque speed power , from mark space to analogue out in 6502 assembler, and compared to z80 it was faster
[16:01:41] <SWPadnos> that's strange actually
[16:01:57] <SWPadnos> though the Z80 needed like 12 clocks per instruction and the 6502 was closer to 2
[16:02:07] <archivist> 2 meg 6502
[16:02:18] <SWPadnos> right - Atari speed
[16:02:20] <Jymm> Not exactly sure about all this, but... http://www.ar-cad.com/
[16:02:36] <Jymm> SWPadnos: no way the atari 2600 had 2m
[16:02:49] <SWPadnos> 2 megahertz CPU, silly
[16:02:55] <Jymm> oh, heh
[16:03:44] <alex_joni> Jymm: alibre is parametric
[16:03:54] <Jymm> alex_joni: ?
[16:03:54] <alex_joni> so you can do things like = A*10-B*14,2,5*3
[16:04:07] <alex_joni> where A and B are things you used earlier
[16:04:12] <Jymm> alex_joni: ah ok
[16:04:19] <alex_joni> so when you later change A, the whole thing resizes
[16:05:02] <Jymm> alex_joni: Now to find my promo code for plus
[16:05:13] <alex_joni> parametric usually means you make a sketch, then impose some constraints (parallels, equals, perpendiculars, etc) then set some parameters (length of sketh sides, etc)
[16:05:18] <alex_joni> plus?
[16:06:07] <Jymm> alex_joni: Do you remember when the hype that it was going to be free? They gave out promo codes to upgrade to the next level
[16:06:59] <Jymm> for those that signed up to the mailing list
[16:10:52] <alex_joni> Jymm: which software are you talking about?
[16:11:01] <SWPadnos> alibre
[16:11:43] <SWPadnos> if you signed up for info when it was called "X cad" or whatever, you'd get a something for going to the non-free version
[16:12:15] <alex_joni> dunno
[16:30:44] <Jymm> I just signedup for the xcad download... how come I feel dirty and just made a pack with the devil.
[16:32:30] <Jymm> SWPadnos: Do you know the name of those square 120VAC outlets you were talking about? I wanted to get the dimensions of them.
[16:33:16] <SWPadnos> they'd be AC outlets or something
[16:33:25] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure of the beand name
[16:33:29] <SWPadnos> or brand
[16:45:13] <Jymm> SWPadnos: http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/ACS-39/search/SNAP-IN_NEMA_15-5_RECEPTACLE_.html
[16:46:05] <SWPadnos> yep, those ewre the ones cradek posted
[16:46:16] <SWPadnos> there are less expensive and better (non-IDC) ones at DigiKey
[16:46:18] <Jymm> ah
[17:00:51] <SWPadnos> Jymm, digikey part numbers Q337-ND and Q227-ND look about right
[17:01:04] <SWPadnos> quick-connects instead of push-in or IDC connections
[17:04:44] <Jymm> SWPadnos: good catch, I didn't realize they were IDC
[17:05:01] <SWPadnos> yeah - the snap-on back is a clue there :)
[17:05:37] <SWPadnos> it does say you can use faston connectors too though, so who knows
[17:05:47] <Jymm> SWPadnos: I dont see amp ratings on digikey though
[17:05:57] <Jymm> Q337
[17:06:28] <SWPadnos> NEMA5-15 means it's a 3-prong (that's the 5) 15A (that's the 15)
[17:06:44] <SWPadnos> is also says 15A in the description
[17:06:50] <SWPadnos> DescriptionCONN AC RECEPT NEMA 125VAC 15A
[17:08:07] <SWPadnos> I didn't notice what the difference is between them, if you see it, let me know
[17:15:09] <Jymm> I can't even find the 227's yet
[17:15:23] <SWPadnos> search for Q227-ND
[17:31:44] <jepler> SWPadnos: the Q337-ND datasheet doesn't say it's ROHS, the Q227-ND does. But digikey's page for both does say ROHS, so beats me.
[17:32:41] <Jymm> I thought it i might have been the finish, but all I see differnet is that addition of "/FO" to the description
[17:33:13] <jepler> the material and approvals are also a bit different (UL94-V0 on 227 vs UL94-V2; cUL approval on 227, in addition to UL and CSA on both)
[17:34:33] <Jymm> 227 -> OUTLET PWR NEMA 5-15R SNAP-IN/FO
[17:34:55] <Jymm> 337 -> CONN AC RECEPT NEMA 125VAC 15A
[17:38:40] <Jymm> and 738W-X2/01 ins't listed on Qualtek website, only /03 is in the cross ref
[17:46:30] <chrispol> Anyone know if there is a way to turn off limit switch checking while probing? my probe is on a shared switch
[17:49:21] <skunkworks_> remember when we where talking about peck tapping.
[17:49:22] <skunkworks_> http://www.centroidcnc.com/cncvideo/video_ridgidtap.html
[17:50:07] <skunkworks_> this is cool - and trivial with emc2 http://www.centroidcnc.com/cncvideo/videolathempg.html
[17:51:47] <Jymm> SWPadnos: http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Potter%20Brumfield/Web%20Photo/W31-X2M1G%20SERIES.jpg
[17:58:10] <Jymm> YEOW! http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/01/24/california.weather/index.html
[18:07:33] <alex_joni> chrispol: you can unconnect it in HAL
[18:07:55] <alex_joni> but that probably requires a Mxx before and after the probing
[18:18:52] <alex_joni> http://www.trilobyte.ch/pix/index.php?spgmGal=fraese/Beckhoff <- cool machine for emc
[18:27:13] <fretless85> nice
[19:10:10] <ALS> alex_joni: I don't see a price ,I know If I have to ask...
[19:10:46] <alex_joni> ALS: on what?
[19:11:18] <ALS> the beckhoff
[19:11:33] <alex_joni> ah, it's fotos from a user
[19:12:01] <ALS> http://www.beckhoff.com/english/
[19:12:37] <jepler> nice latency test result
[19:15:01] <cradek> but membrane keyboards suck
[19:18:16] <alex_joni> jepler: it's some VIA board
[19:18:22] <ALS> looks like you maybe able to plug in a ps2 type if that one fails
[19:19:03] <alex_joni> VIA EPIA M10000
[19:21:16] <fretless85> but it looks fine ;)
[19:22:57] <alex_joni> http://robots.net/images/review/via-10.jpg
[19:29:30] <fretless85> ?
[19:32:23] <skunkworks_> run with hal?
[19:32:28] <skunkworks_> (I see the motherboard)
[19:34:51] <alex_joni> nah, some random googling on the via board
[19:34:55] <alex_joni> but it's a nice truck
[19:48:35] <alex_joni> good night all
[19:49:23] <chrispol> Anyone know if there is a way to turn off limit switch checking while probing? my probe is on a shared switch
[19:53:07] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51083
[19:53:55] <jepler> chrispol: no, there is not. as alex_joni suggested when you asked earlier, it may be possible to use M6x or M1xx before and after a probing move to divert the signal from its normal function as a home switch to function as a probe instead. This would be done with some "mux2" realtime components, the 'sel' inputs being changed by the m-code.
[19:55:59] <cradek> I think you could share it with a home switch more easily than a limit switch
[19:57:50] <chrispol> will try with home only don't really need the min limit
[19:57:54] <jepler> why would you put 20A MOSFETs on a 3A driver board?
[19:58:45] <cradek> I think it's an error if the probe trips while homing BUT there is a "is now homing" HAL signal you can use to unhook the "probe"
[19:59:05] <jepler> cradek: there is?
[19:59:08] <cradek> also remember PCI parports are like $10
[19:59:18] <cradek> jepler: I think so - or is it a param?
[19:59:31] <jepler> oh -- you're right
[19:59:33] <jepler> it's a pin
[19:59:39] <cradek> axis.N.homing
[20:00:00] <cradek> ok, you just have to mask motion.probe-input with that
[20:04:56] <SWPadnos> wouldn't the problem be that the limit trips, rather than probe related issues?
[20:06:07] <cradek> yes
[20:06:12] <cradek> well which problem?
[20:06:20] <cradek> if you share a limit you can't make it work
[20:06:27] <cradek> if you share a home you can do what I described
[20:06:50] <SWPadnos> ah, yes indeed
[20:07:34] <SWPadnos> I guess there would only be a problem with a shared home/probe input if you happened to try to probe through the home position (of any axis, if they're in parallel)
[20:07:46] <cradek> oh I didn't think of that
[20:07:53] <cradek> yeah you'd get a false probe hit then
[20:08:09] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:09:14] <cradek> if the home is at the end of travel, it's easy to use soft limits to keep off of it
[20:09:22] <SWPadnos> argh. it's hard to break in new sneakers
[20:09:26] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:15:09] <Roguish> hey, i picked up a 2nd 5i20 board. next couple of days i will test to see if 2 5i20s work together in one machine.
[20:16:31] <SWPadnos> cool
[20:17:37] <Roguish> i'll let ya know.
[20:18:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I guess I should see what happens if you put a 5i22 and a few 5i20s into the same PC
[20:37:43] <fenn> Jymm: the man is a master of lighting: http://www.oyonale.com/image.php?lang=en&mode=info&code=464
[20:38:30] <Jymm> fenn: It just makes me sick I tell ya, sick! =)
[20:43:38] <alex_joni> jepler: I think the 20A rating is in perfect conditions for very short times
[20:45:01] <alex_joni> so usually it can't hurt to overengineer a bit
[20:45:17] <alex_joni> and the higher current transisters usually have a very low Rdson
[20:45:57] <jepler> alex_joni: good points .. it was just odd to see that he was going for the cheapest CPLD he could find (even if it meant sacrificing functionality) then selecting a part that on the surface is 6x oversized to the task
[20:46:21] <alex_joni> I'm not sure there are lower transisters.. but I haven't looked for under 10A
[20:46:46] <alex_joni> I used 44A transisters on my 10A H-bridge
[20:47:00] <alex_joni> it was about right.. stayed really cool
[20:47:03] <fenn> Jymm: this one's my favorite i think http://www.oyonale.com/image.php?lang=en&mode=info&code=432
[20:47:58] <Jymm> fenn: Here, so you can get REALLY disgusted... http://www.gigapxl.org/
[20:48:22] <Jymm> fenn: http://www.gigapxl.org/gallery-AnacortesFerry.htm
[20:50:25] <fenn> uh, those are photos..?
[20:51:08] <fenn> oo the LLNL one is cool
[20:51:41] <jepler> http://www.oyonale.com/image.php?lang=en&mode=info&code=646&section=1999 <-- I actually have this one on my wall
[20:52:26] <Jymm> fenn: thet're MASSIVE photos!
[20:53:33] <jepler> http://www.oyonale.com/image.php?lang=en&mode=info&code=22&section=2001 <-- and this one
[20:53:47] <BigJohnT> Jymm: yes, alibre allows you do do math when entering dims
[20:54:16] <Jymm> BigJohnT: TY
[20:55:06] <BigJohnT> just got back to my machine shop from a customer
[20:59:06] <BigJohnT> Jymm: you need me to check anything else while I've got it open?
[20:59:31] <Jymm> BigJohnT: Can it open DXF/DWG files?
[21:01:02] <BigJohnT> Jymm: it can import STEP, IGES, SAT, DWG, DXF and all image files
[21:01:28] <Jymm> BigJohnT: that works for me, TYVM for checking
[21:01:53] <BigJohnT> Jymm your welcome
[21:01:59] <SWPadnos> BigJohnT, did you actually load files, or look at the available extensions in the "import" drop-down list? :)
[21:02:33] <BigJohnT> Just looked at the list, but I just opened an image and am going for a dwg now
[21:02:44] <SWPadnos> heh - ok :)
[21:02:56] <SWPadnos> sometimes the import filters don't work as well as one would hope
[21:03:28] <BigJohnT> seems to open a dwg fine
[21:03:30] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I tested most of them
[21:03:39] <alex_joni> especially step, iges and acis sat
[21:03:48] <alex_joni> dwg and dxf aren't the best
[21:03:59] <alex_joni> but I keep my impression that it sucks at 2D :)
[21:04:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:04:39] <SWPadnos> no parasolid?
[21:04:43] <BigJohnT> 3-d is not bad I've made a few parts to test and see how intuituve it is...
[21:04:52] <BigJohnT> yes it is parasolid
[21:05:09] <BigJohnT> but dwg and dxf are 2d
[21:05:40] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: mostly 2D
[21:05:44] <SWPadnos> Alex didn't list parasolid, does it import that?
[21:05:48] <alex_joni> there actually are 3D dxf's out there
[21:05:59] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: sorry?
[21:06:17] <SWPadnos> you listed step, iges, acis, and sat, btu not parasolid
[21:06:27] <SWPadnos> unless one of those is parasolid by another name
[21:06:39] <alex_joni> I'm not familiar with parasolid per se
[21:06:45] <BigJohnT> hang on I'll check something
[21:07:19] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasolid ?
[21:07:30] <BigJohnT> parasolid like .xt files are not supported
[21:07:54] <SWPadnos> yes, that kind of parasolid ;)
[21:07:55] <BigJohnT> I meant that it was parametric or driven by parameters
[21:08:01] <SWPadnos> understood
[21:08:24] <SWPadnos> strangely, my CAD package can import/export text and binary parasolid models nicely
[21:08:30] <alex_joni> I think there are a couple more things it opens
[21:08:35] <alex_joni> Rhino 3D iirc
[21:08:46] <SWPadnos> and asthat page mentions, Parasolid is what's under the SolidWorks hood also
[21:08:51] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: it helps if you register on their site.. you get export options
[21:09:28] <alex_joni> oh, and there's a free plugin to export google sketchup models
[21:09:50] <BigJohnT> I registered and have the full program to test for 30 days
[21:10:08] <BigJohnT> what is a google sketchup model
[21:10:11] <alex_joni> http://www.alibre.com/promos/online/3DSketchUp.asp?SOURCE=PRggl2007
[21:10:24] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: google also have some 3D app, called google sketchup
[21:10:34] <alex_joni> it's the software used to make models for google maps
[21:10:37] <alex_joni> and google earth
[21:10:58] <SWPadnos> theywere demoing that at MacWorld
[21:11:04] <SWPadnos> gah - I can't type today
[21:13:17] <alex_joni> off to bed
[21:13:28] <alex_joni> 'night
[21:13:37] <BigJohnT> alex so early in the day
[21:13:57] <BigJohnT> alex_joni goodnight
[21:17:30] <Gamma-X> hey everyone.
[21:18:03] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT im hoping to hook up the machine in about 20 mins...
[21:18:35] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X Sweet! I hope you have the drive belts off...
[21:19:08] <SWPadnos> I hope you have the E-stop switch connected! ;)
[21:20:08] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT im not hookin up the drives just the scales.
[21:20:08] <ds2> bah E-stop...just learn to run away FAST!
[21:21:24] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X that should be safe from your stand point
[21:22:22] <SWPadnos> except that it won't work, since the feedback is from scales attached to the table ...
[21:24:46] <BigJohnT> just drawing a part in Alibre and it is pretty good software
[21:25:07] <BigJohnT> hope the cam part is this good
[21:31:58] <Gamma-X> im gunna hook everything up but the motors... shoulda stated this.. lol
[21:32:08] <Gamma-X> motors are connected to a pin connecter...
[21:55:04] <Gamma-X> how do u guys have ur mesa baords mounted?
[21:55:11] <Gamma-X> i jsut wanna do some testing...
[21:55:52] <SWPadnos> on standoffs, at least
[21:56:18] <SWPadnos> you could stick them on cardboard or soemthing, but not anything anti-static
[21:56:25] <Gamma-X> ok
[21:56:52] <Gamma-X> i wonder if i should wait for this weekend...
[21:57:07] <Gamma-X> im still scared.
[21:57:16] <Gamma-X> im not the most confident with my half file...
[21:58:13] <SWPadnos> half f ile?
[21:58:32] <Gamma-X> hal file... sorry
[21:58:42] <Gamma-X> anyone wanna check them out?
[21:58:49] <Gamma-X> if anyone has nutin do do i dont wanna bother anyone
[21:59:03] <Gamma-X> to do*
[22:00:57] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X does emc run?
[22:01:13] <Gamma-X> yes
[22:01:54] <BigJohnT> then you just need to verify the connections?
[22:02:05] <skunkworks_> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1595738376643650297&q=easy+cnc&total=50&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=4
[22:02:09] <Gamma-X> basicly yes id like to go over them with someone
[22:04:06] <BigJohnT> have you run the hal config screen from emc?
[22:04:24] <Gamma-X> no
[22:04:42] <BigJohnT> from there you can "watch" any hal pin or signal
[22:04:57] <BigJohnT> as you stimulate the input
[22:05:13] <Gamma-X> well i think emc is lookin for my scales to start or sumtin
[22:05:31] <BigJohnT> why do you think that?
[22:06:11] <Gamma-X> idk..
[22:06:38] <Gamma-X> i started an example and it says linear move on line six would exceed limits
[22:07:14] <BigJohnT> that is because the move would exceed the soft limits you have in your ini file
[22:07:34] <Gamma-X> can i get rid of soft limits?
[22:07:48] <BigJohnT> you can make them real big for testing
[22:08:05] <Gamma-X> well i dont have home switches so i think those would do nothing...
[22:08:09] <Gamma-X> where do i set those?
[22:08:15] <BigJohnT> in your ini file
[22:16:57] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT what line would it be at?
[22:18:45] <BigJohnT> each axis has an entry for each direction. I'm not at my linux computer so you will have to look for them
[22:19:08] <SWPadnos> [AXIS_#]MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT, I believe
[22:23:11] <Gamma-X> i think i need a ladder chain or flowing line in my hail setup for my amp on...
[22:43:09] <Gamma-X> any ideas?
[22:43:42] <SWPadnos> here's an ide: post your hal file(s) on http://pastebin.ca :)
[22:43:45] <SWPadnos> idea, even
[22:45:08] <Gamma-X> sounds good
[22:45:23] <Gamma-X> got it
[22:46:53] <Gamma-X> http://pastebin.ca/871414
[22:47:41] <Gamma-X> http://pastebin.ca/871416
[22:48:14] <Gamma-X> http://pastebin.ca/871417
[22:48:20] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos there u go. thanks
[22:48:33] <SWPadnos> ok, first, if you want to use XEnable to turn on all amps and PWMs, you'll need to connect it to all three amp outputs, and all three Mesa PWM enables
[22:48:56] <SWPadnos> so instead of commenting out the YEnable and ZEnable lines, you'd need to change them all to XEnable
[22:49:34] <Gamma-X> ok
[22:49:35] <SWPadnos> one other thing, I think there's an amp enable output for each channel on the 7i33, so you shouldn't need to use up a digital output for that
[22:49:58] <Gamma-X> hmmm
[22:49:59] <Gamma-X> ok
[22:50:02] <Gamma-X> ill edit it now
[22:51:18] <SWPadnos> yep - on the 7i33 (non-T), pin 13 is ENA0
[22:51:24] <Gamma-X> ok
[22:51:24] <SWPadnos> it'll be close to that on the 7i37T
[22:51:44] <Gamma-X> why would i change y and z to x anyway?
[22:51:51] <Gamma-X> those pins arnt even being used.
[22:52:36] <SWPadnos> actually, I think you can just connect the [XYZ]enable signals to the m5i20.-.dac-0[123]-enable pins
[22:52:51] <SWPadnos> and then use the physical enable outputs on the 7i33 to tuen the amps on
[22:53:10] <Gamma-X> will it be a momentarily type switch?
[22:53:14] <Gamma-X> i jsut need ot to come on and shuit off
[22:53:25] <SWPadnos> uh - what are you talking about? :)
[22:53:25] <Gamma-X> a quick... blip .. if u will
[22:53:43] <Gamma-X> that pin only needs to come on for like 2 seconds.
[22:53:53] <SWPadnos> no, the enable is a maintained output from the motion controller, which tells the mesa card (in this case) that it should actually generate output
[22:54:08] <SWPadnos> and which the mesa card then forwards to the motor connector on the ENA[0-3] pins
[22:54:09] <Gamma-X> it will have output in it already...
[22:54:43] <SWPadnos> what momentary contact are you talking about? are you talking about some sort of e-stop reset?
[22:55:07] <Gamma-X> no
[22:55:09] <Gamma-X> kinda
[22:55:14] <Gamma-X> its the amp enable on.
[22:55:27] <SWPadnos> that should require the signal to remain on to keep the amp running
[22:55:40] <Gamma-X> but to my controller it is a reset button, that reset is latched to the estop
[22:55:50] <SWPadnos> if it's something else, then you need to do some ladder or other HAL configuration
[22:55:51] <Gamma-X> estop has 24v going through it.
[22:56:15] <SWPadnos> under no circumstance should you connect anything to the computer that can reset E-stop
[22:56:25] <Gamma-X> the reset wire takes that 24v from the same pin and touches another pin turning on the amps
[22:56:41] <SWPadnos> that must be a manual, physical switch that can only be operated by a person
[22:56:49] <Gamma-X> i have the switch
[22:56:59] <Gamma-X> it goes like this...
[22:56:59] <SWPadnos> ok, then we're talking about two different things
[22:57:28] <Gamma-X> servo amp cabinet ( 24v ) ---estop siwtch---mesa cards---return to servo cabinet,
[22:57:39] <Gamma-X> theres a hardware one already in place inside the cabinet.
[22:58:01] <SWPadnos> ok. I think Isee the problem here (maybe)
[22:58:33] <SWPadnos> you have an e-stop, which is a physical circuit that the PC can turn off, but can't turn on
[22:58:57] <SWPadnos> the PC can e-stop because you can turn off the mesa output that's part of the estop chain
[22:59:05] <Gamma-X> one of the reset wires ties into that 24v after the mesa card and touches another pin, wich tells the servo cabinet that the estop is ok and to turn on the amps.
[22:59:43] <SWPadnos> ok, so that should probably be connected to "machine-on", maybe with a one-shot so it's only maintained for a couple of seconds
[22:59:52] <SWPadnos> this would apply power to the amps
[22:59:55] <SWPadnos> ?
[22:59:55] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos correct, the only way it can turn it on is if the physical switch is not hit and emc hits estop and then hits the 24v to the reset pin
[23:00:24] <SWPadnos> ok, that reset should not be connected to EMC, it should probably be connected to a physical button instead
[23:00:50] <Gamma-X> well im told me mesa it will suport it. Id preffer it...
[23:01:35] <SWPadnos> um - well, you can connect it however you want, but if there's any way for the machine to turn on under software control, without user interaction, then it's not a safe estop system
[23:02:00] <SWPadnos> so consider what happens if you have limit switches in the e-stop chain: the machine hits a limit and estops
[23:02:16] <SWPadnos> the mushroom switch is still in the "OK" position - you haven't hit it
[23:02:55] <SWPadnos> you bump the machine (or crank it off the switch, if you have that ability), and the limit switch is no longer hit
[23:04:32] <SWPadnos> so the e-stop chain is now complete again, and the machine can start up on its own
[23:04:57] <SWPadnos> though EMC should have noticed the estop and shut its output off, it's possible that it wouldn't have happened
[23:05:12] <SWPadnos> (remember - you can't count on software for emergencies)
[23:06:12] <SWPadnos> your machine could guard against this because it needs a reset pulse, btu I'd be damned sure that resetting requires a transition - ie that a maintained reset contact won't keep the machine reset
[23:06:28] <SWPadnos> err - keep the estop circuit reset
[23:06:34] <SWPadnos> dinnertime. bbiab
[23:08:22] <archivist> * archivist has a peek at axis code and wonders where the cut line drawing occurs as the machine goes though the cycle
[23:11:15] <skunkworks> I figure it is magic
[23:16:18] <archivist> on mine the job should rotate not the cone
[23:16:56] <archivist> I neeeeedz to learn shum pyfon
[23:21:43] <Jymm> * Jymm tosses archivist into the snake pit - In depth, up close, and personal training
[23:22:05] <Jymm> archivist: No, no need to thank me, it's the least I could do
[23:23:11] <skunkworks> http://xkcd.com/353/
[23:26:44] <archivist> hmm tis odd looking language
[23:27:24] <archivist> * archivist has been a python free zone up till now
[23:27:51] <eric_U> I like the xkcd.com where he writes a python script to jiggle the mouse
[23:35:15] <Gamma-X> can someone tell me how a line would be written if the input has 24v going into it and i just want to use the input as a switch and also tell when the 24v is not flowing threw it?
[23:36:40] <Gamma-X> the line is for my estop
[23:36:46] <eric_U> hook it to the high side of an input, 24v common to the low side of the input
[23:37:06] <Gamma-X> eric_U i dont have to right not in the line on my hal>
[23:37:08] <eric_U> then the input should read 1 when the 24v is on
[23:37:27] <eric_U> which input are you hooking it to?
[23:37:36] <Gamma-X> estop.
[23:37:42] <Gamma-X> on a 7i37
[23:38:02] <eric_U> you link the input to estop in your hal
[23:38:30] <Gamma-X> but what im saying is do i have to put not?
[23:38:46] <Gamma-X> and will emc already know threw hal if it is not connected? or if i hit estop?
[23:39:54] <eric_U> can you see the input on one of the hal guis?
[23:40:01] <eric_U> do you have it hooked up?
[23:40:25] <Gamma-X> the estop button is not in place so i geuss no. just one of the negative wires is.
[23:40:47] <eric_U> it's going to take 24v and 24v common to get it to work
[23:41:00] <eric_U> but I think that you don't need a not condition
[23:41:22] <Gamma-X> ok
[23:41:34] <eric_U> maybe you do. Use the engineering method, try both ways
[23:41:41] <Gamma-X> is a not only when the thing looses power its done bad?
[23:41:52] <Gamma-X> ok
[23:42:15] <eric_U> losing power should probably put the machine in estop
[23:43:08] <Gamma-X> u sure?
[23:43:22] <Gamma-X> apparently i can use the machine when the estop isnt hooked up..
[23:43:47] <eric_U> that's because your config says it can
[23:44:30] <eric_U> it seems like the input reverses the logic, because my 7137 has nothing hooked up to it and all the inputs are true
[23:45:42] <Gamma-X> so is that good or abd?
[23:45:44] <Gamma-X> bad*
[23:46:01] <eric_U> I'm waiting for you to figure that out for me
[23:46:11] <eric_U> it's just one line in the hal file
[23:46:40] <Gamma-X> ok
[23:46:51] <Gamma-X> wich one
[23:47:49] <Gamma-X> i think i might know
[23:48:26] <Gamma-X> my linksp estopsense is at 2 points
[23:48:32] <Gamma-X> for in and out
[23:48:37] <Gamma-X> both pin 7 of both
[23:48:42] <Gamma-X> how would that be wired
[23:49:06] <eric_U> you got me confused
[23:49:43] <Gamma-X> when u write a hal file for the inputs and outputs of the 7i37, u write in and out
[23:49:55] <eric_U> in is not the same as out
[23:49:56] <Gamma-X> i only have 2 wires for my estio
[23:50:00] <eric_U> on the 7137
[23:50:09] <Gamma-X> im asking u why are both of those lines in there?
[23:50:17] <eric_U> dunno
[23:50:35] <Gamma-X> ohhh i see
[23:50:35] <eric_U> my circuit will have both, so the machine will know when emc is in estop
[23:50:51] <eric_U> and emc will know when the machine is in estop
[23:50:51] <Gamma-X> i know what i did
[23:51:03] <Gamma-X> u have 2 sets of wires on all 4 terminals of ur estop..
[23:52:01] <Gamma-X> wich one is the sense? and wich one is the just open and close.
[23:52:27] <Gamma-X> the in or the out