[00:33:57] <BigJohnT_> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Plasma007.jpg
[00:39:38] <BigJohnT_> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Plasma008.jpg
got wire strippers and a multi meter.
anyone available that has a mesa i got the proper tools and talked to someone about the anilam circutry.
no one is on...
lewin1 is now known as lewing
GO BIG BLUE!
Gamma-X what did you find?
alpha1125 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
lerman__ is now known as lerman
alex_joni: have minute ?
in TRAJ section default speed and acc are about hal or so max_vel and max_acc value
in TRAJ section default speed and acc are about half or so max_vel and max_acc value
I'm not sure what ploter.ini is
but default speed and acc are mainly used for jogging
(read by the GUI as the initial jog speeds)
other than that I don't think it's used anywhere
ok I check it
In [AXIS_n] section speed and acc suppose to be eqal to values in TRAJ section or not ?
in each AXIS_n you set the max speeds for the individual axes
the TRAJ refers to the tooltip (e.g. G0 moves)
if the move is in XYZ (x0y0z0 -> x10y10z10) the move can be done with faster speed than the speed on X|Y|Z
and when TRAJ values are smaller than AXIS_n section the following error occurs ?
then axis is to slow to follow trajectory ?
no, it shouldn't give a following error
it will go slower though
the trajectory planner will limit on (traj and axis_*)
so if axis_0 has 100mm/sec
and traj has 10 mm/sec
you can't move axis_0 faster then 10mm/sec
ew probotix looks cheap, I wonder how good
gah flash horror
acually was looking at his steppers and drivers not that little "thing"
I think retro fitting real industrial machines gets better bang for the pound
archivist: looks like a sherline clone
and they also have some unimat clones
far too light weight for reall work
archivist: depends what you call real work
if it involves wax or soft plastics.. I see no reason why it would be too light weight :D
cutting steel with a 10mm cutter
I like a bit of power and rigidity
I remember trying a Sherline at a Medel Engineer Exhibition some years ago and was impressed (about 5mm end mill in it)
I'm logging. I don't understand 'bookmard', skunkworks_. Try /msg logger_emc help
Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-01-21.txt
i am looking for the source code of hal pid module. I am searching the cvs but i cant find it. Can someone please direct me where to search.
fogl2: just a moment, I'll find you a link
if you have the source tree, it's emc2/src/hal/components/pid.c or pid.comp
if you want to view the source and history online, it's http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/src/hal/components/pid.c?graph=1
Still winter here :)
thank you jepler
jepler: Did we find out if xemed(sp) got his pwm+dir working?
out of the pluto
skunkworks_: he wrote me and said he didn't think the change worked.
skunkworks_: so it's waiting on me to take the time to hook up my pluto again
but that never seems to happen when I'm at home
must be a bug in me
anyone on? im tryin to hook up my cables to the mesa cards anyone can help?
how is california
hey skunkworks u got mesa cards? i forget. im trying to hook them up now. the servo wires atleast...
I do - but have not done anything with it. sorry.
u wouldnt know wich terminals on the 7i33 get the servos do u?
or got any info on that besides the crappy mesa manual
it's annoying at the moment
SWPadnos are u kickin it up in compton?
[15:19:12] <jepler> http://mesanet.com/pdf/motion/7i33man.pdf
page 5 is the only reference I know of
jepler that manual is horribal
the pinouts on page 5 look pretty good to me
0, 1, 2, 3 are the different channels
AOUT is the analog voltage output
well it dont tell u what /x0 and x0 are used for
ENCA, ENCB are quadrature signals
IDX is the index signal (optional)
im gettin schooled yay! thanks jepler
ENA is an amplifier enable (I think)
The idx and /idx pins mean the signals are differential
you could look at this config also - to get ideas http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/configs/m5i20/
right -- if you don't have a differential encoder then leave the /idx and /encab pins unconnected and leave the corresponding jumper W1..4 in the "TTL" position
if you have a differential encoder then connect both and modify the W1..4 jumpers
im goin to try and use my scales..
anilam series 2 haha!
how is it going?
tryin to hook up my cables to the mesa cards
mesa? servo driver?
i will use UHU i got some for cheap
3 pieces for 80€
idk what that symbol is but 80 sounds cheap lol
thats about 115$
jepler what is the e0 for?, and correct me if im wrong x0-x3 are my servo sigs correct?
Gamma-X: which 7i33 pin number do you mean?
uhhh wow i got confused one sec
if ur holdiong the 7i33 in ur hand and the weidmuller connectors are to the right doese it go pin one from the top or bottom
or i could just ask this, on the 7i33t it says dro and ground, those are my servo analog out signals right?
look for a silkscreen "pin 1". Page 3 of the pdf manual shows that "pin 1" is on the bottom when the servo amp connection is on the right, but I think that's for the IDC version.
I don't see a silkscreen "dro" anywhere
i got it
its right next to the pins
"This page intentionally almost blank"
I chuckle every time I read that in a mesa manual
yeah - I liked that
signal of servo goes to pin 10
for servo x
Gamma-X: nobody knows - read the manual :)
(that's what we'd do to answer the question)
SWPLinux its so vague! lol
im gunna fuk this up hahah i already know it
or its up to you to decide
Gamma-X: to answer your question, I'm stuck at San Jose airport for a couple of hours, after getting 3 hours sleep and arriving about 2 minutes late to check in for my scheduled flight
so now I get to fly to LAX, then Washington DC, then home to Vermont, but I get to arrive at close to midnight instead of 6:25PM
at least I get to (a) use my free t-mobile account (wifi on Ubuntu), and (b) see how long the battery in this laptop actually lasts
SWPadnos theres electrical sockets there...
none near the coffee shop/wifi spot - O'll look elsewhere when prompted :)
hahaha. ok . I was stuck at dubai airport and sat in the irish restaraunt eating sausage links plugged into the wall.
on my pc hahaha
electric sausages, weird :)
ehh i forgot a comma
so, Jymm and I used this place over the weekend: http://techshop.ws/
it's a pretty cool place
maybe I'll unplug this damned ATM that's bleeping every 5 seconds
that looks a wonderful place to play at
yeah - they've got a *lot* of different kinds of equipment
almost every toy a boy wants
the powder-coating/anodizing room was a surprise
wasnt expecting electrinics as well!
yeah, though the test equipment is a generation or two old
may still work - didn't check
old stuff works if you know how to drive it
that's the one problem - once you take the safety course, you can use the milling machines, but that doesn't mean you really know what you're doing
so the machines are fairly beaten up, though they still work
I think I had manual toolchages down to around 30 seconds toward midnight last night :)
just talked to anilam again they gave me the pinout for the scales.
we sometimes allow people here to cut their own gears
a a channel
b b channel
c plus 5
e open - earth ground
f marker pulse.
half thouysandts 10 micro,
quadrature ttl output
is "marker pulse" equivalent to index?
the resolution is 10 microns.
that sounds good?
scales are pretty cool - the machines at techshop had scales and DROs
yeah, 10 microns is OK - something like 1/4000 inch I think
or maybe 1/40000
should be a quarter thousandth, no?
well the dude at anilam seemed verry confident on the subject
a 2.5th or a thousandth ;) (0.393701 mils)
yeah, it is close to 1/2
that's not great for dynamic positioning
question.... on the mesas there are 9 wires terminals on my scales theres only 6...
and one of them is an earth ground but im sure i can use the ground on the mesa
I think you don't need to connect the earth ground to the mesa
common is signal ground
would I use the / terminals
I'm not sure
you can jumper the mesa to be single-ended, in that mode, you may not need to connect the / lines
well if i jumper it i dont think i can use the ttl or sumtin right?
that's kind of a vague question
im a vague person
then the answer is maybe
surprising that you don't have differential outputs on the scales
cradek there from 1989
my machine is from 83 and has differential
differential signaling has been around for a long time
(actually all voltage signals are differential, but that's a different story)
OK, time to try to find an outlet - let's see how power management works on this beast
well - he hasn't logged out yet..
question.... Can any of the grounds on the mesa boards be used for any ground? or does it have to corelate with the device ur wiring in, in the area that device goes.
airport security chases errant user for shorting the lights
best to corelate where possible
cause theres ground in differant spots and im not sure wich one to put where.
archivist is it imperative to do that or will it be ok?
SWPLinux_ is now known as SWPLinux
ground loops can/do cause problems so keep them with the signals
hmmm. looks like I've got a little configuration to do for suspend
ill give u an example whats the ground on pin 21 used for?
with a continuity tester, I'm sure you'll see that the GND on TB1 pin 21 is connected to all the other GNDs. However, the practical use of that GND wire and trace on the board is to reduce the coupling between IDX2 and AOUT2
21 gnd is for the signal next to it
it may also be a convenience terminal, so you don't have to connect all the ground wires to the same spot
ahhh jepler i have to say that was a verry precise answer
[16:36:08] <jepler> http://ece.colorado.edu/~mcleod/teaching/EandM3400/Lab%20Book/Lab_5.pdf
hey, colorado.edu is where i work!
ok well scales and servos are hooked up, thats all for the 7i33
hmmmm how the hell am i gunna do this vfd bullshit lol
are the scales working?
idk i didnt go that far yet im just talkin about to the mesa cards! hahah
you should check that the scale feedback is working, that's very important for moving motors
ikm goin to
and you can check it by moving the table - no power to the spindle (or servos, depending) necessary
but its like 9 degrees outside and i dont feel like taking my computer outside and setting it up! lol
that and I havnt configured hal yet
honeslty im kinda lsot on it and i did read.
feedback is what prevents the servos from crashing through limits, so it's a good thing to check early on
you must have working estop and limit switches that disable the amps before you apply any power to the motors
i gotta hook up my limits and e stop
oh i now have a p4 1.4 ghz and 512 pc133 ram controllin my emc machine
ok, how does it perform for RT?
that's the kind of question that makes me concerned for your safety :)
dont worry about me
im always fine
well ok then
can anyone give me a few starting steps on hal? like where to begin?
reading the hal tutorial
then start with the mesa sample config, I'd say
read it again :)
yeah, and don't come back until you can answer every question on the test!
hmmm. I wonder if my phone "just works" as a USB modem
if its got bluetooth prolly if it has windows on it then yes
it has blutoth, but it's verizon-crippled bluetooth
I was excited to learn that my new phone does. and also puzzled that the few minutes I used it for haven't appeared on my online statement yet (voice minutes appear immediately)
I think data calls are like voice calls in many cases
or is that in EDGE/GPRS mode (or whatever)
mine works that way too - very handy
this is on sprint's network (virgin mobile pay as you go), I don't know much about the technologies..
but .. I plugged in the USB, and it appeared as /dev/ttyACM0
me either - I just know a few of the acronyms :)
ok, mine does as well
it has bluetooth, but serial-over-bluetooth didn't work
did you notice the connection speed?
in rough terms
it didn't print it in the CONNECT message. It seemed pretty sluggish and slow, though
ok, so possibly modem-like, rather than 3G speed
you are not calling an actual modem?
that's what I do with mine
3g is fast
the EDGE and EVDO networks are supposed to do 700kbits to 1.4 megabits
so of course I get modem speed
yeah I call my ISP's dialup number
what else would I call?
yeah we are not talking about the same things then
ok, so you're at 14.4k or something
ud connect to ur phone providers isp through an ip]\
does SWPLinux know something we don't?
no way! :)
I don't have/want any kind of expensive data plan
if you have data service from the cell carrier, you can get much faster connections
unlimited for 20 bucks a month
right, me either (Because Verizon is so damned annoying and expensive)
verizon sucks balls
no ATT service in my hometown, so not so useful for me
I don't think we have any GSM providers yet
where do u live?!?
(or us-fubared GSM)
SWPadnos u should come down to ny and help me with my machine!
where in NY?
lewin1 is now known as lewing
oh, that new york ;)
which town? ( you said once but I don't remember)
blue point ny.
how far from Asharoken is that?
pretty far i believe
y do u say asharoken?
uve been there?
no, I have an associate who has a house there
he lives right by where i work
Rube Goldberg's old place ;)
i work at the northport power plant.
ok (never been there)
where he lives he can see the smoke stacks of where i work lol
I've been to Port Jefferson (?), but that was a while ago
nice area aswell
its 15 mins from me
probably not, his beach house faces Connecticut ;)
SWPadnos i guarentee he can see it haha
cause i can see almost all the ebach houses
oh right - no height limits in NY
how do u know him?
I designed a camera system for him
he lives in Dallas, but he has a house on Long Island also
aha - East Setauket, that's where I went before
if u ever feel like takin a weekend trip down here let me know
i worked in east setauket delivering for ups
I will (but don't hold your breath ;) )
oh - I drove down to get some custom-frequency crystals a long time ago
a radio transmitter we were designing
im assuming u make good money in w/e u do haha
[17:10:21] <Gamma-X> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Asharoken,+NY,+United+States+of+America&sa=X&oi=map&ct=title
other years, I go without pay
click that and look at the arrow, look to the right there are 2-3 water ways
the first 2 are northport power plant, or click on satelite image
and if u were in port jeff uve seen the other power plant I work at.
I think if you look way out on N. Creek Road, that's where the house is
I'm not sure exactly
on the west side of that little "peninsula"
he can see the stacks no doubt u can see them from conneticout
how should I hook up the limit switches?
probably, when the trees aren't leafy
for testing or for real?
it depends on what you want
they need to disable the amps
you have to figure out how to do that with your amps
sorry for butting in
as far as I know they run through my amps
i dont mind.
series is reasonably easy and useful - you only have one wire (pair) going from the machine to the control cabinet (with the motor drives)
if that's the case, then you probably don't have much choice in how to wire them
they run through the amps and into the control cabinet.... well the old one so i still have the wires available to me.
"through the amps" doesn't make sense to me
either they're in parallel with a disable input on the amps, or the amps have an aux output that feeds the switch signals to the control ...
[17:19:33] <Gamma-X> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17510
they could also be in series - the amps could have the ability to fault the e-stop chain
the way i turn the amps on is by shorting the estop and then un shorting.
the way it was orriginaly done was u hit e stop, take e stop off then hit reset and they start to whistle
are those two limit switch inputs for the two directions, or are they limit and overtravel? (ie, two limits)
pins 6 and 7 on J1
though those aren't necessarily inputs, they could be outputs (that list doesn't say)
i can find out
ok - that sounds like a good plan :)
ok i found out
he said u jsut gotta find out if when u strap it they run or un strap and they run,
theres 3 pins 6,7 for the switches and pin 9 for common
right - I noticed that pin 8 (an output) also uses 9 for common
SWPadnos brb gunna go smoke, i know ull be sitting there for a minute! lhaha!
which would mean that some digital output would be using the same ground as a switch mounted on the machine ...
no - actually we should be boarding in 10-15 minutes
ill sit here then
not that I'm much help with this stuff :)
so should I wire them in series or all differant?
I do have a few AMC servo drives though ;)
i got a 7i37 wich should be enough
it depends on what you want ... :)
whats the most safest?
if you want any limit switch to disable all amps, then wire all in series
yeah i do.
SWPadnos thats the msot safest correct?
actually, the limits are already connected between machine and servo drive, right?
but then they go back to the controller
yes, it's probably the safest, but it's not very useful for moving off the limit, is it? :)
which wire goes to the controller? the one from pin 8?
well i can manualty movie it
all limit switches the + and - get wired to it.
no, leave the switches alone - they should be wired so the amps will be "safe"
[17:34:23] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/13227
look on the right side
ih, here it comes
the "oh" was correcting the previous "ih"
well, I guess that pinout tells you how they're wired, huh?
im puzzled on how it is set uop
you have 6 wires coming to that connector, they're not wired together
(that's my bet anyway)
you can use 6 separate inputs to EMC, which should be the most flexible
usually, people wire things in series because it's easier - you only have a single cable coming off the machine
if it's already set up to disable whatever needs disabling, and the wiring is already done, you may as well leave it
that will allow you to jog off the limits (if the amps allow it), for example
if you use a limit switch as a home input, it will also allow you to home all 3 axes simultaneously (I think)
you cannot home on a limit switch if that limit switch disables the amp
this will be a headache but i actualy worked out a deal with the creator of my control who worked for anilam! lol
im giving him a power supply and hes giving me all the info i need.
homing on limit switches is for small machines only
anytime i want it
cradek: what if it only disables further travel in that direction?
cradek from past experience it shuts down the servo
SWPLinux: it'll still FE because it can't decel under power
ok, good point
so i should just do it in series
if you end up without home switches, you can use index-only homing
i dont think the machine had homing switches
they're wired in parallel already, you don't have much choice unless you want to rewire it all
EMC will shut off all the motors if any limit is hit, I believe
the offending motor will have already been turned off in hardware
so series is the way to go!
they are already wired in parallel - you have six limit signals for EMC
you can make some circuitry and "OR" (or and) them together, or you can just connect all of them to EMC
wow that middle aprt is confusing
I'm pretty sure that they'll already be wired to provide for safety concerns, probably by disabling the servo amps
I'm saying that you can just connect all 6 wires to the Mesa card
SWPadnos thats how it ran when it was first up and running
and wire them to HAL - there are 6 limit inputs to the motion controller
im just trying to do as little as possible with hal
its so god damn scary
hey ill brb gotta smoke. if i misss u SWPLinux have a safe flight
you have the choice of (a) rewiring the limits and possibly screwing something up, (b) making some custom hardware to combine those 6 signals, or (c) editing a text file ...
see you -about to board
see you SWPLinux
cradek does the homing, test on make or break for its 0 position
archivist: you can do any of many things
linuxcnc.org, documentation, html, homing configuration
ah ok, Im wondering wether to make an amplified movement so I can use cheaper switches
amplified? like a lever arrangement?
even cheap everyday microswitches give surprising repeatability - I advise you test your cheap switches first
helps to hit them straight-on
but even with ramps I get good repeatability: http://timeguy.com/cradek/01198731403
with a tenths indicator I can easily see each step (1/3200 inch) and I get the same one over and over
don't know about long term, but in the short term if I home 20 times I get the same step each time
must find my box of bits with microswiches in it
I looked as some specs before xmas and some were good for the price
mine are junkbox so no specs :-)
[17:56:33] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/cnc/lathe/DSCN6295.JPG
but if a ramp is working that well! goody
in this one you can barely see the setup for the same kind of switch but head-on
it smacks into the saddle
the switch is slightly back from the edge of the mount so there's a hard stop to protect it
most of my machine is junk box
Im thinking of a spring to protect the switch
the lathe X homes as it pulls off the switch, so the backlash is the right way (for outside cuts)
have you done similar for the rotary axis
nope I just home them by eyeball
near enoufg technique
well there's a mark where the handwheels used to be - I can get the right step by eye
(or at least close enough)
no longer visible on this on
it's not clear to me how to put home on an infinitely rotating table
well a ramp(bump) could actuate a switch
index pulse would be nice for a rotary, you really want the home on the 'good' side of the worm
for gear cutting 0 doesnt matter anyway just as long as Im consistent
true, don't sweat it I guess
(on mine both of the zeroes definitely matter)
im making sure im unidirectional in my gcode to ensure no backlash from the rotary
someday I bet we'll want the special handling of infinite rotaries
then you'd just program with all positive numbers and not have to worry about the old value
yes move to absolute, but only clockwise etc
cradek those pitman servos from HP plotters?
i donno where cradek got his, but my local electronics surplus place had a bunch for about $12 each
pittman 8XXX, not 9XXX like cradek has
* archivist has a 9413D319 in his hand
pittman's docs on their website are pretty good :-)
HP part no probably 0745-60104
ah must look
heh /me sees same number on cradeks lefthand motor, now I know how big that lathe is
must look out for more toys to disassemble
did you get yours from an HP plotter?
mine dont have the IC on the pcb though
which IC? the driver?
on the pcb at the back of the motor (opto reader)
oh on the encoder? yeah they come with a bunch of different encoders. Does it say HEDS and a 4-digit number on it?
how would i hook up a limit switch with a + and a - on the 7i37?
it turns out the limit switches wernt even hooked up in the control....
do i need to wire the limit switches to emc? or can i let the servo amps worry about it
i think you'd want emc to know
is emc a open or closed loop system?
i gotta figure out if my switches are open or closed loop.
Gamma-X: you are scaring us again...
focus gamma focus
i went out side to check sumtin
skunkworks how should I hook up te limits?
lerneaen_hydra: hej en svensk! jag med fast jag bor is usa nu
nämen sedär, en till från sverige. Vi börjar snart ta över kanalen. bork bork bork
seb_kuzminsky: do they still have those motors? I'd love to have a few more
I'll check. You sure you want the 8xxx's? They're not as torque-y.
oh, hmm, maybe not
I have some smaller, what I'd like is some more about this size
thanks anwyay though
check the pittman lcm document and see if they're in spec for you
hey cradek on the 7137 if ur lookin at teh card with isolated i/o to the right would i put the limit switches all in the left row.... positive then negative and so on?
good gravy, Gamma-X - read the docs and figure it out - you have the card, the docs, and the mill - I don't
cmon! im so scared to mess it up! hahaha
you either have to study the situation and become confident and capable, or you should stop before you damage yourself or (less important) the mill
thats why i stopped and asked someone i trust more than myself with this stuff haha
consider the diagram here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opto-isolator#Application
maybe you should consider getting someone out there to help you, at least with the safety-related parts of the retrofit
SWPLinux is willing, but it may take a while so he said
you got time your only 22
u remembered! thanks.
do you have a pc running emc yet?
the 7i37 board contains something like R1, R2, D1, Q1 for each isolated input. You have to find some parts of your system that are equivalent to V1 and S1, and connect that in the right way to two of the 7i37 pins (e.g., pins 1 and 2, IBIT0+ and IBIT0-). You could literally start with a microswitch and a 9V battery, and observe the state of the 5i20's input bits through halmeter in order to understand how the circuit works and behaves
ALS yes i do
jepler i think i figured it out
Gamma-X: why do I have a feeling you'll have other questions :)
make drawings of your circuits, why and were they hook up
alex_joni cuase i know i will 2
ok, if you're so confident you can with only 2, you'll have 2 more questions left
free ones I mean :)
Gamma-X: you'll need to provide favours for the rest
small things like proofreading docs, writing wiki pages :P
writing a wiki page! hahaha
i think i can do this on my own hahaha
ull read in the paper, 22 year old young man slayed by his cnc machine when it all of a sudden turned into an auto bot
ok limits are hooked up
now for e stop
Aieeee! Stop!!!!!! <--- impression of a man who got his e-stop wired wrong
jepler: you forgot the "squish" at the end
squish? you mean "bam!"
could be either noise I suppose
I think squish is worse
keep your fingers out of the way...
squish - then bam
in about 7 years as a milling machine operator i never got to hit the emergency stop...but its still good to know you have it ;)
that's why you use some other person that happens to be standing nearby as a meat-guard
fretless85; bah, you're machining at far too conservative speeds then ;)
and mostly thinking too much before you mill
there is an nc stop tho...
i got no second try
heavy parts 4-40tons
you got to think before you mill ;)
that's pretty heavy actually
how often do you break off tools not just due to wear?
you mean crash?
most tools are hard to break off due to there diameter *g*
haha, that always simplifies things
a mistake I made with a large tool pushed the work out of the vise - if it had been a mistake in Y instead of X, I'm sure it would have snapped off
yea but last week i killed an hm endmill diameter 40
im german sorry hartmetal its called back here
that's an expensive endmill then
sry for the miss spelling
hårdmetall in swedish, seems like a word-for-word translation :)
i dont got it to mill with rapid feed,,,no idea why,,,
someone who dont work, makes no mistakes...
and the inverse of that too
thats the truth
wer nichts macht, macht keine fehler
heh, fehler is almost the same as fel in swedish (same meaning)
when you mess up something...you got to know how to weld :P
if you can weld it...
OT Question... When you mill a thru hole where the end mill is gonna hit the table, How do you usually set that up?
get space between the working space and the table?
with air underneath
if it's in a vise, just use parallels
if it's a smallish peice, some plywood under, or in a vise with an air gap
if it's on the table, use scrap, or if you need it flat, spacers like 123 blocks
I get that =) But But I have this L shaped chassis that's like 11" by 9" 16ga aluminum, so it's gonna be funky just mounting it to the table a bit.
oh, by 17" long
oh, if it's large and flat (sheet metal), I clamp it to the table with some scrap plywood under
lerneaen_hydra: Ok, I can see the plywood - as it would support the whole 17" w/o bowing the sheet
fretless85; plastic is probably better, plywood scraps are free ;)
Just seems like swarf woulf collect in the wood and scratch the finish.
hmm, I haven't had any issues like that, maybe you could test with something similar and see if that would happen?
This is gonna be REALLY hard as it is, because of the L shape, it's gonna block the entire fron of the mill
doesn't sound too fun
I'll have to look from the sides - yeah, no doubt.
I'd prefer to have something solid under the chassis so it doesn't bow down
Oh, maybe that dark brown stuff.... 1/8" thick
preferably lots of clamps to stop it from rising up (if you're using twisted endmills)
or whatever they're called
the more teeth the better for sheet metal
wth is that stuff called again (agrh), they use it for bench tops, harder than shit. usually you have to drill it before screwing it down
like plyboard, but seriously desne
oh, uh, I know what you mean
epoxy resin wood?
in germany its called pertinax
wtf, not masonite, that's just pressed sawdust and glue isn't it?
lerneaen_hydra: It is, but really dense
peg board stuff
lerneaen_hydra: less chanse of swarm getting embedded in it
hmm, ok, there's something else though that's a lot harder and more durable
it cracks like ceramic
used for high-wear tabletops and the like
like ceramic? wow...
if its held down good shouldn't get under
lerneaen_hydra: yesh, masonite for tabletops.
yeah, I can't quite seem to recall what it's called
no, this is something else, cheap applications have a thin layer, a couple mm thick
formica is a no no to machine.... formaldyhide in it
ALS; hmm, can't say I recognise the name
ALS; hmm, could well be
I machined my first metal piece ever last night - and didn't screw it up either! LOL
they use router to trim the edges
Jymm: your required to post a picture...
Jymm: and are you IRCing from home or the hospital? =) j/k
skunkworks It's just a penny holder - no biggy
a penny holder? O_o
Glad I took the safety class, it let me run one mill for SWPadnos (after he set it up), while he was working on the other mill.
I can now appreciate a rotary table =)
ds2: you should check that place out, pretty cool. It's in Menlo Park. Right at the dumb bringe
Jymm: what place?
[21:10:52] <Jymm> http://techshop.ws/take_classes.html?a=1&i=2783709
oh I been there several times. I am disappointed by the machines and tooling offered
Ah, well better than nothing in our case.
it is fine if you have no other means
and their classes are meager... I recommend the deanza shop classes instead
I had to run over to HF and buy a set of drill bits becaue all of theirs wee chewed up.
even the basics, they are short of... they have chucks w/o keys for them
The classes are safety and basic usage classes.
They had chuck keys, but BYO tooling wouldn't hurt anything.
MCNC71 @ deanaza is better. the instructors at deanza know more and the shop is well equipped
mr bouvier is sending me the turn on circuit for the control.... everything is going pretty smoothly.
They got a laser, so I'm jazzed about that.
Jymm wernt u helpin me with my retro fit?
the epilog and the dimension are redeaming features
Gamma-X: not me
hmm techshop looks like an interesting concept, does it work?
lerneaen_hydra: It seems so, especially if you dont have all that gear. $30/day or $100 month
what about assholes that mess up and/or break stuff?
lerneaen: a lot of what they have are in pretty poor shape and are used by people who donno what they are doing
stories I have heard include people trying to machine a incandescent lightbulb on the metal cutting lathe
lerneaen_hydra: It's cheap tooling, they dont guarntee accuracy on the machines. but if you dont have a cnc plasma cutter of your own, etc
they have a lot of harbor freight stuff... IMO, the crucible has better tooling equipment (but they cost more)
okay food time
right. are there workshops for people that know at least the basics of machining?
[21:17:46] <ds2> http://www.thecrucible.org/
Jymm: they are up in oakland
lerneaen_hydra: Yes, theres the BASIC safety class, then there are other class to actually LEARN how to do it "properly"
caters to artist types.. they also have a shaper
They have a 3D printer, vacuum forming machine, the kinda stuff not everyone has in theri shop.
Jymm; uh, I was thinking about workshops as physical entities, ie. places with lathes, mills, sheet metal equipment etc.
lerneaen_hydra: I'm not following, sorry.
something like techshop but without the idiots, and better machines
lerneaen_hydra: Ah, gotcha. This is the only place I was even aware of. So no clue.
lerneaen_hydra: Sounds like you mean something like this... http://store.thecrucible.org/product_info.php?cPath=1_10&products_id=1023&osCsid=e5b4a5126d5301372d63f3d27b81f28f
oh, ok. I can't quite see where the average person would do their machining, lathes and mills are prohibitively expensive, so building your own workshop for personal use is out of the question, where do people do their stuff?
hmm yeah I guess that fits the bill
I've been lucky enough to have access to workshops for quite some time, I can't see how I'd survive without them
lerneaen_hydra: Well, I guess someone that has half a clue, or knows how to do it but doesn't have access to equipment
I mean owning a BP for say $2000, doesn't cover anything, you still have to add on all the tooling, collets, clamps, etc etc etc
place have 220 available to you =)
yeah exactly, the price can run away very quickly
lets not even get started on how much they cost here in sweden
Hell, even if I wanted a quality mini mill, I never realized all the extras that I would need.
a micro-mill from china costs about $2000...
Shit, even the bandsaw to cut the .75x2" al bar stock, then the other band saw to cut down some 1/4" al plate - it all adds up with the extras
Hi, I'm having a problem with tool length compensation (10 gcode lines from the handbook). It looks like an AXIS display bug: I get a strange long line in the z axis. Fortunately, the tool does not follow the line, but Axis is a bit screwed up. Can anyone help?
This is the simple program I'm running (I added the tool table at the end) http://pastebin.ca/867743,
and this is the screenshot with the weird line (selected) http://imagebin.ca/view/NQwGo3Z.html
Notice that the line is 50 mm long and that the compensation is 2 mm. Since 1 inch = 25.4 millimeters, this looks like a conversion error somewhere in Axis or EMC.
what version of emc is this?
where did your machine start when you turned it on? looks like maybe when the program was loaded - z was not 0.
it's not that the tool was at that point when emc was loaded?
^^^ what skunkworks said
sweet i got my machine to power up. gotta have e stop on the machine internally connected then hit reset.
Even when I home all before loading my file, I get the same result
all cnc machine dont have home correct?
My machine is a metric Sherline mill
as far as I know myne doesnt have them.
The funny thing is that the execution is OK. The tool doesn't go along the line.
a small show is not that expensive
a basic mill (import grade, manual) runs around $500 new
the length of tool 2 in the tool table is 2mm?
hmmm 2mm long tools... must not get a lot of chatter ;)
so at line 16 the actual motion you get is 2mm upward?
I see it's showing -50.8 for the lower extent. I agree it looks like a bug
can you file a bug report on sourceforge? I can't look at this right now and I don't want to forget it
cradek: sure, I'd be happy to. Should I submit my sherline ini file as well?
it couldn't hurt. It may be that something in there smells like inches to AXIS
can i set emc up to have a reset button? my servos will not come on unless i hit the reset button and i would like to keep it for functionality.
a software layer reset.
cradek: is this a duplicate 1825638? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1825638&group_id=6744&atid=106744
Gamma-X: when you start emc you're in a state called estop
then you hit a key to get to estop reset
Gamma-X: from there you need to hit another key to get to machine on
only at machine on should your amps be enabled
Hugomatic, cradek: I do *not* see the problem using TRUNK sim/axis_mm.ini and hugomatic's tool table in sim_mm.tbl
this enable signal is called axis.#.amplifier-enable-out
alex_joni can i config that 2nd key to be my reset? thats kidna how my machine was setup to begin with? i just dont want a current going thorugh that circuit all the time. just a quick blip.
Gamma-X: the moving from estop to estop-reset is usually just a key (for micro, nano and other smallish mills)
one for each axis, though in any case I know about they're either all enabled or all disabled
Gamma-X: although on big machines moving from estop to estop-reset is usually only done if the external estop chain is ready
cause my machine already has a hardware implementation of this. so it should be easy to set it up in emc.
Gamma-X: I don't understand what your reset key is
it goes to a ice cube wich turns on the transformer for the servo amps. hitting e stop turns that transformer off.
sounds like amp enable to me
pretty much but on the old control it had a label ( RESET ) haha
while you are in the state MACHINE_ON the amp enable is true
if you go to ESTOP or ESTOP_RESET then amp enable is false
will it have continutity all the time though?
the reset button that is?
if you connect the amp enable to a parport? pin, and from there to your transformer control, it will do what you want
Gamma-X: again, I don't know what your reset button is/does
alex_joni i dont need the mesa cards tio putput any electric though.
I can only tell you what emc2 does or can do
that's a bit of a stretch
Gamma-X: you don't "need"?
e.g., we don't know if this "ice cube wich" will take a signal at parport current and voltage
the mesa card outputs are perfectly ok for driving small loads
jepler: sure.. that's for Gamma-X to figure out
we don't know what else should be involved in turning on or off this signal -- e.g., should it be involved in the estop chain, or just with the software "amplifier enable"?
voltage and current needed
theres already current going through the reset switch
we don't know a lot of things
don't hook 24V to your parport :-P
nor to your mesa
when u touch the 2 together the machine turns on.
do you keep them touched?
it just allows the ice cube to switch on.
ok, so you probably have a latching relay in your "ice cube"
wth is an ice cube?
sorry for a diff terminology
an ice cube is a relay
Gamma-X: before messing with specifics like these, I would start designing my estop chain
alex_joni I already have it setup
see you guys later
ok, mind to share how it connects to emc2?
see you jeff
it will have a software e stop and a manual e stop, the machine has it built in.
built in => means nothing to me
aslong as emc keeps the circuit closed the machine will stay on, once the circuit becomes open, then the servos power down,
ok, what else is on the circuit?
do you have pneumatics there?
is there a pressure switch?
an estop button, and i will program the vfd in aswell
do you check for estop?
there are 2 circuits involving e-stop
the first one (the most important) is the one causing the machine to stop when somethings funny
the on you already have figured out
if a limit switch is hit, it will shut the machine down. if i hit e stop, the machine shuts down.
all im going to do is add in emc into the chain of the already existing estop.
24V power, estop button, vfd, limit switches, emc driven relay -> machine power
Gamma-X: and that's quite fine
but you probably also want emc2 to know the estop has been tripped..
u reffering to the manual switch?
button, vfd, limit, whatever
BRB = Big Red Button, as I like to call it =)
the vfd will talk to emc, and the button has 4 pins, im using the top 2 for manual estop and the bottom 2 to let emc know when i hit the button
Gamma-X: sounds crappy to me
well what would u suggest?
Gamma-X: I would take the end of the estop chain (just before it commands the machine/servo power) and feed that as an input to emc2
probably through an optocoupler (because of voltage levels)
that way anything trips the estop chain, you see it
even if it's emc2 that tripped it
ill put it through the 7i37 then
I am usually assuming people are looking at emc when something doesn't work
Gamma-X: not through
in between maybe
i hate u guys hahaha
you simply "look" at the signal
don't divert/change/influence it in any way
[emc] ---- [estop chain] --- [ I/O board ]
Jymm: not quite
wait, I did that wrong
fucking ascii grpahics on one-line in irc =)
|- emc input
alex_joni: cheater =)
add a couple of spaces in there :)
Gamma-X: estop is not something to treat lightly
hope you are aware of this
I second that and put it withing reach!
alex_joni: Hmmm, you know... if ther was a way to compressive short vector grphics via irc client, you could do simple graphics via one liners.
alex_joni im aware, i just know that the estop circuit is already in place, i tested it with out a control box.
in europe we have regulations that each mushroom _must_ use both contacts
so you have 2 distinct circuits on machines
just for increased safety (redundancy)
Gamma-X: good to know
gene_: then you may proceed.. you have 1 question left
gene_: then you may proceed.. you have 1 question left
hahah i got one
Gamma-X: with emc off and i/o card off ?
can't type for shit
alex_joni: That's ok, I speak typo
Jymm: surely he'll test again after everything is supposed to work
Jymm reason being is i kept all circuits inside the original servo cabinet in tact,
Gamma-X: Well, whatever you do, just remember the term is called FAIL ***SAFE***, not fail sorta kinda convientant safely
i connect 2 pins.. little r and little s to be exact and then touched little e to little s and the machine booted up, i disconected the reset wich is the little e to little s and it still ran wich is good, then i disconnected the little r from little s and it shutdown, meaning the e stop circuit is already in place, now all i have to do is put my manual estop button in that circuit, and emc in that circuit.
sounds like e to s acts as machine on
my question is, where on the mesa boards should I connect my " reset button" and my estop wires.
and r to s as estop.. or something
and that was without a control of any type connected.
Gamma-X: you'll probably want an output triggering a relay which connects e to s
why would u suggest that? theres already one inside the servo cabinet,
output from emc2 I meant
alex_joni thats already in place.
then I don't understand what you're asking..
alex_joni i just need to know what spot on the 7i33 can I plug in these 2 circuits that It will not add any voltage.
Gamma-X: then I suggest you read the 7i33 manual
I can't help with specifics/pins etc
like I said.. I can tell you about what emc2 is capable to do
alex_joni I have but im confused on what is an IBIT and what is an OBIT
you need to figure out how to use that .. safely
IBIT sounds like input bit?
Gamma-X you might need to isolate the machine circuits from the mesa card with relays...
BigJohnT Its already been done.
Gamma-X: if you ask how to connect something, then it's not done
well the question was specific to the mesa 7i33
as far as I know there 2 different types of connections on that card,
types of connections?
I think you mean 3 different connectors
The 7I37 provides 8
Isolated 48VDC 1A output drivers and 16 Opto-isolated inputs.
inputs are IN0..IN15 (pins 1,3,5,7,...,31)
outputs are OUT0..OUT7 (pins 33,35,..,47)
Gamma-X: from the 7i37 manual
im trying to figure out the pinout, .
i jsut got it haha.
im readin the silk screen on this board and it doesnt have I's or O's
looks like that atleast,
Gamma-X: read the fine manual
im an idiot...
i did... pinout was wierd in my head my bad.
now you need to see if you connect that card to a port on the 5i20
and you need to see how those pins will match
yeah i know.
(usually people connect the 5i20 and the 7i37 with a 50-pair ribbon)
that's generally a 1-1 mapping
thats what i got.
a scsi cable.
3 dollars for a scsi cable woohoo!
so.. open the 5i20 manual, look for pin 33 on port A|B|C
and see which one suits you :)
you probbaly will have a port for the servo card
the 5i20 is just an i/o card, all ports on it are I or O
Gamma-X: yes.. and no :)
heres an even better nube question, what would the outputs on the 7i37 be used for?
the pins on the ports also have some predefined function
spindle on? limit switches?
is this according to emc?
Gamma-X: lets step back a second
you have a 5i20.. right?
it has 3 connectors
and it can provide 72 I/Os
so either 72 Ins, or 72 Outs, or a combination
furthermore it can have some hardware program loaded in the fpga to make some pins work in a special way
for example encoder counters
yeah i know that.
ok, that is done by loading a firmware into the card
the emc2 driver loads one
a hal config right?
a card firmware (coniguring the FPGA on the card)
i havnt gotten to hal yet hahaha,
that card config (called HOSTMOT4 or HOSTMOT8 or something like that) defines how the card is set up
and how each of the pins on those 3 connectors are configured
either inputs or outputs or something more advanced
well what are u trying to explain?
I'm trying to explain that if you want to use emc2 and it's driver and the fpga configuration loaded by it..
then you want to keep with the pinout assumed by the above
i thought u editted that driver once u have everything hooked up.
you don't want to mess with the fpga firmware
ok, where would I find the correct layout for the firmware?
Gamma-X: in the docs obviously
alex_joni thanks for lettin me know by the way
[22:47:18] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/2.2/html//hal_drivers.html#r1_5
Gamma-X: scroll down to connector pinout
Gamma-X likes Molly Hatchet
Gamma-X: found it?
i have everything on the 7i33 connected the right way/
the 7i37 seems it doesnt realy matter
you probably want the 7i33 connected to P2
the 7i37 goes to P3 or P4 depending what further things you need/don't need
i you want to count 4 axes encoders (maybe spindle speed or such), thne I'd put the 7i37 on P4
make that 5 axes
so basicly i can connect the estop and servo start connections anywhere theres an input on the 7i37
and just make sure i connect the 7i37 to p4
if you put it on P4 you'll be working with in-16..in-31
in emc2/HAL that is
ill be settin that up once i get the boards wired up.
then my plan is to take a multi meter and test it all
before i hook it up to the machine
or use halscope
using halscope is for tweaking things
if something is wired incorrectly by the time you start halscope the magic smoke is long gone
aslong as i hook up the 7i33 and the 7i37 to the 5i20 correctly i should have a problem because nothing will be attached just a big pin connector
right.. but if you feed 220V into the 7i37 it may damage the 7i37 and the 5i20
same goes for 7i33
wish I'd gotten the T version
I here what ur sayin
yeah t version is awsome
they didn't have them back then..
but the cards are + 10 bucks each for the t and ontop of that 15 for each connector that 80 bucks just for the t versions
its a good price to pay though compared to buy breakout boards
bob are 25-45$
[22:59:57] <alex_joni> http://www.daqstuff.com/50_pin_breakout_500013.htm
[23:00:10] <alex_joni> http://www.winfordeng.com/products/brk2x25.php
daqstuff messed their site
the only thing i need to know is the m codes from the original machine
[23:02:46] <alex_joni> http://18.104.22.168/search?q=cache:wYtLxth2LugJ:www.daqstuff.com/50_pin_breakout_500013.htm+500013+site:daqstuff.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=opera
for oil and coolant, etc
well.. I'm off to bed
goodnight man good talkin to u
hope it helped at least a bit
Gamma you get the new computer loaded up with linux and emc?
i got the 7i33 and 7i37 in my lap im wiring them up now to my 37 pin connector
tack good notes and document everything
fuck that shit!
BigJohnT NO BALLS NO GLORY!
i want to do this and then sell new controll systems pre maid for the crusader II system
but I might have to do it someday!
beats the hell outa 7500 bucks for a new anilam
true u may
but then ill help u
and if anyone needs this information u can contact me ( this is for the logs baby) nygoldenmemories%yahoo!
I bet you would have just as much fun with a new anilam but have less momey
7000 less hahaha
just use the force and check twice before letting any magic smoke out
so i heard
how often do u here stories about smoke
twice for each time
[23:25:19] <BigJohnT> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/Plasma007.jpg
that's quite the transformer
600 watt 56v
+ 12vdc reg and 5vdc reg
u cant do a latency test until everything is hooked up right>?
you don't need anything hooked up
and you don't want emc running
with version 2.2.2 you can run latency-test from terminal
different from before?
before you did this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#RTAI_Latency_test
yes that is what I did
which is what is still in the integrater manual
skunkworks well what do u do now?
how do i configure my 5i20 and 7i33 and 7i37 cards for what I have put into them?
[23:56:09] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_stepconf.html#sec:Latency-Test
Gamma-X: type latency-test in a terminal window
ill try it now hold on
whats a good number?
lower is faster
these numbers look different than the other test...