#emc | Logs for 2008-01-20

[00:03:03] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X: I had the same problem with this computer and changed the hard drive for one that was blank and it loaded
[00:19:15] <GNieport1> hI GUYS. aNYONE FAMILIAR WITH THE mESA 5I20?
[00:19:21] <GNieport1> Whoops, soory
[00:19:22] <SWPLinux> yES
[00:19:33] <SWPLinux> i HAVE THREE OF THEM
[00:19:34] <GNieport1> lol
[00:19:36] <SWPLinux> heh
[00:19:41] <GNieport1> THAT"S AWESOME
[00:19:49] <GNieport1> I cannoit get even one to work.
[00:19:53] <SWPLinux> none of them is in a machine at the moment, but I have them
[00:20:17] <SWPLinux> what doesn't work?
[00:20:43] <GNieport1> I have one installed under EMC 2.2.2, with the 7i33 analog card, and am not getting any analog out
[00:20:59] <GNieport1> the digital IO and encoders read correctly
[00:21:06] <SWPLinux> how are you trying to get output?
[00:21:27] <GNieport1> I have the 7i33 active low enable tied to GND on the 7i33
[00:21:46] <GNieport1> Well, I have a scope here, and checked at the 7i33 board.
[00:21:53] <SWPLinux> is that the the enable output on the 7i33?
[00:22:10] <SWPLinux> (ie, the one on the output connector)
[00:22:13] <GNieport1> I tied the enable low
[00:22:18] <GNieport1> yes.
[00:22:49] <SWPLinux> that doesn't enable the PWM/analog output, that's an output to enable a servo amp
[00:23:01] <GNieport1> I have a relay that pulls the enable pin low when I tell EMC to turn machine power on.
[00:23:05] <SWPLinux> the PWM enable is between the mesa and the 7i33
[00:23:24] <SWPLinux> and also between EMC and the 5i20
[00:23:44] <GNieport1> Uh, perhaps I read the docs wrong, but it says that the pin must be pulled low or else the analog output is forced to zero?!
[00:23:47] <GNieport1> lol
[00:24:18] <SWPLinux> hmmm - one sec, let me check the 7i33 docs
[00:24:59] <GNieport1> I see. I do have PWM and it varies according to the siggen signal I sent to the dac
[00:25:30] <GNieport1> Hmm, perhaps I have a bad ribbon cable.
[00:25:41] <GNieport1> BTW the 5i20 and the 7i33
[00:25:49] <SWPLinux> try another channel
[00:26:16] <GNieport1> okay...
[00:27:12] <SWPLinux> yep - if you have the 7i33 connected to the 5i20, then the 5i20 has control of the PWM
[00:27:23] <SWPLinux> the other connector has an output for a motor drive
[00:27:55] <SWPLinux> I'm not sure what the mesa driver has for enabling the PWM outputs - there may be an enable for each axis
[00:27:56] <GNieport1> to enable said drive?
[00:28:00] <SWPLinux> yes
[00:28:27] <GNieport1> the PWM does go on and off with the 5i20.0.dac-00-enable pin
[00:28:59] <GNieport1> the thing is, no output on the 7i33
[00:29:01] <SWPLinux> the PWM at the FPGA, or the output of the 7i33?
[00:29:03] <SWPLinux> ok
[00:29:28] <GNieport1> it will take me a few to change channels
[00:29:41] <SWPLinux> how are you powering the 7i33?
[00:30:30] <Gamma-X> GNieport1 wich doc are u looking at for schematic whise.
[00:30:48] <GNieport1> the Mesa 7i33 pdf
[00:31:04] <SWPLinux> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/motion/7i33man.pdf
[00:31:06] <GNieport1> the 7i33 is powered from the PCI
[00:31:14] <GNieport1> yes, that doc
[00:31:29] <Gamma-X> thanks
[00:31:30] <SWPLinux> there's an option to attach a 5V supply, and I thought there was a jumper to select that or power from the FPGA
[00:31:35] <GNieport1> aye
[00:31:40] <GNieport1> hmm
[00:31:44] <SWPLinux> (so I thought the jumper could be in the wrong position)
[00:31:49] <GNieport1> I thought it autodetect
[00:31:53] <SWPLinux> but I don't see a jumper mentioned
[00:31:59] <Gamma-X> there is a jumper
[00:32:03] <GNieport1> hrm
[00:32:05] <SWPLinux> no, that's a dead short to the supply from the 5i20 card
[00:32:32] <SWPLinux> it may be protected, and there are jumpers on the 5i20 to select 3.3V or 5V interface voltage (I think)
[00:32:51] <GNieport1> I have it set to 5V, but that is for the digital IO
[00:33:12] <Gamma-X> i know 7137 has jumper
[00:33:17] <SWPLinux> the 7i33 also needs power. I'd look at that setup to be sure nothing gets fried, but that could be the problem
[00:34:41] <GNieport1> " The 7I33 requires ~60 mA of 5V power for operation. Encoder power can also be
[00:34:41] <GNieport1> supplied from the 7I33's 5V source. Power for the 7I33 is normally supplied from pin 49 of
[00:34:41] <GNieport1> the 50 conductor controller cable, but can also be supplied via P1."
[00:35:03] <SWPLinux> right - I saw that, but no mention of a jumper like the 7i37 has :)
[00:35:09] <GNieport1> :)
[00:35:17] <SWPLinux> and I'm not at home, so I can't look at my hardware
[00:35:34] <GNieport1> lol, I can't feel my fingers, but I can look at my hardware
[00:35:48] <SWPLinux> you must be from the north :
[00:35:50] <SWPLinux> :)
[00:35:53] <GNieport1> yep
[00:36:00] <SWPLinux> Cincinnati?
[00:36:08] <GNieport1> Indeed.
[00:36:22] <GNieport1> my IP give it away?
[00:36:28] <SWPLinux> cool (not necessarily as cold as home for me, but sometimes :) )
[00:36:34] <SWPLinux> not the IP, the hostname
[00:36:38] <SWPLinux> ....cinci.res.rr.com
[00:36:49] <SWPLinux> roadrunner in Cincinnati
[00:36:49] <Gamma-X> im trying to hook up my servos right now im just confused on the meanings on the 7i33 itself
[00:36:55] <SWPLinux> (or so I assumed)
[00:37:04] <Gamma-X> any tips?
[00:37:24] <GNieport1> SWP: Correct. G-X: waht signal; is the current problem
[00:37:50] <Gamma-X> well im starting the wiring right now, like all 3 servos and scales.
[00:38:01] <Gamma-X> just dont know where to begin, im scared! lol
[00:38:24] <GNieport1> How about pin 1
[00:38:42] <Gamma-X> i have a schematic of my old controller input cable. and i took it out and im using that so i dont have to rewire the cards and it is more sturdy.
[00:38:50] <SWPLinux> hmmm. using the scales makes it a more scary prospect - you can't unhook a motor and bench test it because you need the feedback from the scale
[00:39:16] <Gamma-X> well im lookin at the card and i see e2 gnd,dr2grnd /x2
[00:39:41] <Gamma-X> i know...
[00:39:59] <Gamma-X> no balls no glory baby! and im 22 what else do i have to loose
[00:40:00] <GNieport1> the manual should translated the abbreviations
[00:40:16] <SWPLinux> heh - I like the second page of the 7i33 manual
[00:40:26] <SWPLinux> "this page intentionally left almost blank" :)
[00:40:39] <SWPLinux> -left
[00:41:10] <GNieport1> Pete :)
[00:41:45] <Gamma-X> it kinda does but im still a little lost
[00:42:00] <Gamma-X> what would be enca0 and enca1 ?
[00:42:31] <SWPLinux> encoder 0 phase A and encoder 1 phase A
[00:42:49] <SWPLinux> enc = encoder, a=phase a, 0/1/2/3 = which encoder channel
[00:43:14] <Gamma-X> ahhh
[00:43:14] <SWPLinux> that would be my bet
[00:43:22] <Gamma-X> ok so id put my scales in there place?
[00:43:33] <SWPLinux> if they output quadrature, yep
[00:43:48] <Gamma-X> im not worrying about the scales yet its on a differant cable link setup.
[00:43:54] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos almost positive they do.
[00:43:59] <Gamma-X> there all acurite.
[00:44:15] <SWPLinux> that tells me nothing
[00:44:26] <SWPLinux> it would probably tell someone else something though
[00:44:43] <Gamma-X> whats idx0 and /idx0
[00:44:58] <SWPLinux> index 0 plus and minus
[00:45:30] <SWPLinux> generally, / means "negated" or "negative" (or minus side in this case)
[00:45:42] <SWPLinux> or -not
[00:45:54] <Gamma-X> ok
[00:46:03] <Gamma-X> what is index?
[00:46:28] <SWPLinux> some rotary encoders (and possibly some scales) have a separate channel that has one pulse per revolution
[00:46:39] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos can i send u this schematic and u might be able to tell me a little more than i can tell.
[00:46:41] <SWPLinux> (it would be every X mm //inches on a scale)
[00:47:02] <SWPLinux> not at the moment, I'm about to leave the hotel, and IRC + driving is a bad combination
[00:47:14] <Gamma-X> yeah i agree
[00:47:22] <Gamma-X> why r u up in a hotel?
[00:47:33] <SWPLinux> because I'm in San Jose instead of at home
[00:48:03] <Gamma-X> what r u doin there?
[00:48:07] <Gamma-X> if u dont mind me askin
[00:48:22] <SWPLinux> helping Jymm get his machine going so I can use it for a presentation in a couple of months
[00:48:43] <Gamma-X> oh wow, thats awsome!
[00:48:54] <SWPLinux> I hope so :)
[00:49:57] <Gamma-X> good luck
[00:50:01] <Gamma-X> what else do u have to do?
[00:50:03] <SWPLinux> thanks
[00:50:04] <fenn> you just need to borrow gezr's palmtop mill
[00:50:43] <Gamma-X> hey fenn are u gunna be available for a few? id like someone to look at this schematic and possibly tell me what i will use and not use for the pinout on my machine.
[00:53:01] <GNieport1> Grr
[00:53:12] <GNieport1> no luck on channel 1 either.
[00:53:36] <GNieport1> I suppose I must have smoked the card somehow.
[00:53:48] <alex_joni> GNieport1: you said you have a scope.. right?
[00:53:55] <GNieport1> ah, yes.
[00:54:08] <alex_joni> check if the PWM is working between the 5i20 and the 7i33
[00:55:31] <GNieport1> I just verified it, it is working
[00:56:05] <GNieport1> the pulse stream halts when I hit my fed hold
[00:56:09] <GNieport1> feed
[00:56:45] <GNieport1> so the PWM is making it onto the 7i33 pcb.
[00:57:58] <GNieport1> I have siggen set to feed a sine at 5, 0.2Hz into the dac
[00:58:17] <alex_joni> ok, and that one is changing..
[00:58:26] <alex_joni> then I guess either the 7i33 isn't enabled
[00:58:33] <alex_joni> or it's not powered properly
[00:58:34] <GNieport1> the PWM is clearly changing, yes.
[00:58:36] <alex_joni> or it's borken
[00:58:47] <GNieport1> yes.
[00:59:15] <GNieport1> borken :)
[00:59:32] <Gamma-X> how do i find out if my linear scale is digital?
[01:01:01] <GNieport1> how do you mean, digital
[01:01:18] <GNieport1> is it glass
[01:02:03] <Gamma-X> yes
[01:02:27] <Gamma-X> well according to acu rite, there scales are anilog and digital. the digital ones run in quadrature.
[01:02:54] <SWPLinux> that was ambiguous :)
[01:03:16] <SWPLinux> does that mean that all their scales have both analog and digital outputs, or that they have analog scales and digital scales?
[01:04:04] <Gamma-X> i believe both anilog and digital.
[01:04:28] <SWPLinux> that was ambiguous ... :)
[01:04:42] <alex_joni> I think outputs
[01:05:29] <alex_joni> Gamma-X: what's the part name/number?
[01:06:24] <Gamma-X> ill go look.
[01:06:30] <Gamma-X> brb
[01:07:42] <SWPLinux> uh-oh, now I'm in trouble
[01:08:22] <SWPLinux> hey PeterW, can I stop in and grab a couple of 7i43s?
[01:08:23] <StepDir> Is there a way to start a g-code program in the middle?
[01:08:39] <PeterW> GNieport1: If you ground the external enable out signal on the 7I33 you will get not analog out...
[01:08:51] <PeterW> (no)
[01:08:56] <SWPLinux> heh
[01:09:18] <PeterW> SWP: yess but only 200ksers
[01:09:18] <alex_joni> StepDir: there is a feature called run-from-line
[01:09:19] <SWPLinux> StepDir: you can set a "run from" line in most (all?) of the GUIs
[01:09:24] <SWPLinux> hmmm. bummer
[01:09:24] <alex_joni> or set run from line mark
[01:09:24] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: your burning the midnight oil I see
[01:09:36] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: yeah.. 3am-ish
[01:09:43] <SWPLinux> or up veeeery early
[01:10:09] <BigJohnT> reminds you of the song 25 or 6 to 4
[01:10:16] <SWPLinux> heh
[01:10:19] <SWPLinux> that's an old one
[01:10:28] <SWPLinux> which reminds me of the solg "Old Days"
[01:10:29] <BigJohnT> shows my age I guess
[01:10:31] <SWPLinux> song
[01:10:48] <SWPLinux> mine too, I guess
[01:10:55] <Gamma-X> to my dismay there anilam system 2 scales...
[01:12:19] <BigJohnT> how about "Were in the Jailhouse Now"
[01:12:26] <Gamma-X> lol
[01:12:29] <Gamma-X> whats up BigJohnT
[01:12:45] <SWPLinux> hmmm. I don't know that one (luckily, I think)
[01:12:51] <BigJohnT> Mounting my drives and power supply in an old PC case
[01:13:20] <Gamma-X> and theres an acurite as the z axis as far as i know but im not taking the cover plate off now
[01:14:29] <BigJohnT> Yea, it's old for sure a Webb Pierce song
[01:14:39] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X you making any headway
[01:16:10] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT a little. im trying to figure out the pinout of my plugs and if my linear scales can do quadrature.
[01:16:22] <BigJohnT> cool
[01:16:36] <BigJohnT> you get a computer to boot up the live cd?
[01:18:09] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT kinda i think my cd drive is jacked up on the old pc
[01:18:34] <BigJohnT> ok, got another one to pop in there?
[01:18:52] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed
[01:18:56] <alex_joni> good night all
[01:19:01] <BigJohnT> night alex
[01:20:02] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT not realy lol
[01:20:23] <BigJohnT> crap, If you lived closer I got plenty
[01:21:02] <BigJohnT> I did have a problem booting on this pc until I swapped the hard drive with a blank one
[01:21:17] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT what was the problem
[01:21:21] <BigJohnT> It had window xp and somehow it interfered
[01:21:55] <BigJohnT> as soon as I put another hd in she booted right up from the live cd
[01:22:21] <BigJohnT> I was a happy guy then
[01:22:25] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT what exactly was the problem? im havin trouble now at the begginin of loading the live cd.
[01:23:16] <BigJohnT> I don't know what the problem was but my symptoms were similar to yours, I was just trying to boot from the cd
[01:23:29] <BigJohnT> and it would freeze up
[01:23:59] <SWPLinux> PeterW: do you have an ETA on 400k 7i43 boards?
[01:24:54] <Gamma-X> ok
[01:25:24] <BigJohnT> Gamma-X what system is loaded on the pc now?
[01:25:45] <BigJohnT> opps the dinner bell just rang and no one calls me late for dinner...
[01:26:27] <Gamma-X> xp
[01:28:11] <jtr> Gamma-X: perhaps you could disconnect the hard drive and try booting - see if there is some interaction...
[01:28:41] <Gamma-X> ill do it later
[01:28:55] <Gamma-X> that was a headache! lol only 1 monitor keyboard mouse and power supply lol
[01:28:57] <Gamma-X> fuck that
[01:28:59] <Gamma-X> Channel A Channel B Vcc, +5.1 + 0.1 VDC @
[01:28:59] <Gamma-X> 140mA max.
[01:28:59] <Gamma-X> Common (power supply and
[01:28:59] <Gamma-X> signal return)
[01:28:59] <Gamma-X> Shield, reading head
[01:29:00] <Gamma-X> casting ground
[01:29:02] <Gamma-X> Channel R (Reference
[01:29:06] <Gamma-X> that is my scales
[01:29:12] <Gamma-X> the pinout
[01:29:43] <Gamma-X> whos good with schematic reading!!! its verry general.
[01:29:58] <Gamma-X> prefferably someone with a mesa
[01:32:00] <Gamma-X> hey whats the 7i37 used for i forget lol
[01:33:15] <PeterW> SWP: about 4 weeks, We are running way behind on PCBs
[01:33:35] <jtr> 8 output 16 input isolated I/O card - goes between the 5i20 and your switches and relay drivers.
[01:35:23] <Gamma-X> PeterW u make the mesa cards?
[01:35:42] <Gamma-X> jtr kinda like a general usage card for addons?
[01:37:34] <jtr> I'm thinking to use it to control cooland pump, spindle on/off and watch my limit switches and any panel buttons - when I try to build a machine.
[01:37:45] <jtr> s/cooland/coolant/
[01:38:53] <jtr> so I guess that would be general usage...
[01:40:59] <PeterW> Gamma-X: Well I design most of them...
[01:41:25] <Gamma-X> wow, just wanted to say there impressive, except for the 15 dollar plug connectors haha.
[01:44:12] <tomp> PeterW: thx for the work on the 7i43
[01:44:21] <PeterW> Yes terminal blocks are expensive,
[01:44:32] <PeterW> Thank Seb!
[01:45:04] <Gamma-X> u ever think of puttin regular screw terminal blocks on instead of the connectors and charge for the other plugs?
[01:49:01] <PeterW> Not really, Would you like to remove all the wires to swap a IO card?
[01:49:24] <Gamma-X> ehhh,,, in all honestly how often would u switch one?
[01:49:45] <Gamma-X> i was impressed a lot with the baords, jsut makin a referance
[01:49:50] <Gamma-X> not complainin at all! lol
[01:51:35] <tomp> i have some haydon unipolar linear steppers ( rotates nut on a fixed screw ). They are 3.8mH, so can take near 62V. But my driver is ULN2003 only rated for 50V max, and i really only have 24V supplies avai;able. So, by using 24V on this motors, what am I sacrificing?
[01:52:01] <BigJohnT> acceleration
[01:52:42] <PeterW> Gamma-X: Fixed terminals are also a pain for low volume cards as they require pogo stick test fixtures
[01:54:41] <BigJohnT> PeterW: I'm designing a pogo stick tester for a micro switch on a small engine
[01:55:06] <BigJohnT> It has been fun
[01:55:57] <BigJohnT> finally found some heavy duty ones that I hope will stand up
[01:56:33] <PeterW> We usually just use a spare PCB or 2 to mount the sticks, But I dont think they will work very well for high current
[01:57:30] <BigJohnT> The vibration is the killer for this app, using a gripper to position the sticks on the male spade terminals
[01:57:57] <BigJohnT> among other busy thing going on at the same time...
[01:58:21] <BigJohnT> tomp: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Formulas
[01:58:57] <tomp> BigJohnT: thats where i got the 62V thx
[01:59:32] <tomp> but it doesnt speak of the advantage / disadvantage of varying from the possible
[01:59:38] <BigJohnT> tomp: glad my small effort helps
[01:59:48] <tomp> thanks
[02:00:03] <tomp> (i easily overlook stuff :-)
[02:00:17] <BigJohnT> you will have limits on acceleration and speed as the voltage is lowered
[02:01:31] <BigJohnT> The info on that page came from Mariss at Gecko (I might have spelled his name wrong)
[02:02:19] <BigJohnT> When I come across info like that I try and add it to the wiki site for others to benifit...
[02:04:08] <BigJohnT> well, time for a glass of wine and M.A.S.H. ttul
[02:04:17] <BigJohnT> bye
[02:04:19] <tomp> thx bye
[02:04:30] <BigJohnT> night Gamma
[02:22:13] <fenn> tomp: low voltage will limit the top speed
[02:22:16] <fenn> (not accel)
[02:23:02] <tomp> thx, any way to calc top speed?
[02:23:10] <tomp> or just try?
[02:23:56] <fenn> hmm.. yes it's possible but i dont know how
[02:24:26] <fenn> V = L * dI/dT
[02:25:09] <fenn> you have 100 pole reversals per rev?
[02:25:43] <fenn> then you get to figure out how much torque you need at top speed
[02:26:12] <fenn> and find the transfer constant to go from current to torque
[02:31:40] <GNieport> Is Step and Direction working for the 5i20? I know it's been mentioned in the past...
[02:32:05] <tomp> fenn: no capeesh, so i live with 80/90% of what 24 volts gets me before stumbling , thx
[02:37:05] <PeterW> GNieport: Step&Dir should be working soon on the 7i43, and then the 5I20,5I22,5I23. Firmware is there, needs driver though.
[02:37:31] <GNieport> Right.
[02:37:38] <GNieport> thanks.
[02:38:19] <GNieport> Since it seems my brandy new 7i33 has no analog output, I thought I'd ask
[02:39:45] <PeterW> Did you see my message about not grounding the enable out signals?
[02:39:46] <PeterW> If you do the analog outs will not work
[02:40:05] <GNieport> Sorry, the connection timed out
[02:40:16] <GNieport> what?
[02:40:26] <GNieport> the docs say that the enable is active low
[02:40:41] <GNieport> ie must sink current from the enable pin to gnd
[02:41:29] <PeterW> On the FPGA interface cable,yes, the external signal is an output use to enable amplifiers -- dont ground it!
[02:41:30] <GNieport> So I need to send ENA0 high?
[02:42:18] <GNieport> Oh, I just used an IDC jumper between the 5i20 and the 7i33.
[02:42:53] <PeterW> You dont need to touch the signals from the 5I20 to the 7I33...
[02:42:58] <GNieport> right
[02:43:28] <GNieport> I'm not... ENA0 is on the 7i33 output connector, along with the encoder inputs and the analog signal output
[02:45:10] <GNieport> PeterW, would that be Wallace
[02:45:17] <PeterW> OK if you Ground ENA0 you will have no analog out on channel 0
[02:45:19] <PeterW> Its an output signal >-- _not_ an input
[02:45:25] <PeterW> Walrus
[02:45:30] <GNieport> lol
[02:45:45] <GNieport> I am so confused.
[02:46:25] <GNieport> So is the 7i33 manual describing some other feature?
[02:47:02] <PeterW> Yes, the FPGA cable /ENA signal...
[02:47:33] <GNieport> O
[02:48:18] <GNieport> Do I leave ENA0 floating?
[02:48:33] <eric_U> you can use it as an output
[02:48:54] <eric_U> which would be floating
[02:49:00] <PeterW> If you dont need an active high TTL signal to enable your amps, leave it unconnected...
[02:49:51] <GNieport> Just to clarify, what pin must be pulled low to enable the analog output? None, because it is taken care of by the 5i20/FPGA
[02:50:13] <PeterW> Its basically just an inverted copy of the /ENA signal from the FPGA
[02:50:19] <GNieport> ouch
[02:50:29] <PeterW> Yes thats right
[02:50:41] <GNieport> I've had it tied low whenever EMC commands machine On
[02:51:10] <GNieport> heh heh ... doh
[02:51:30] <PeterW> Well then you have two operational modes, dont work and dont work
[02:51:40] <GNieport> btw, I really like the 5i20
[02:52:16] <GNieport> Gobs of IO at a competitive price
[02:52:36] <GNieport> mayhaps now i can actually use it to do something meaningfulk
[02:54:00] <PeterW> Yep, shouldn't be this much trouble. Ill take a look at the manual and see if the ENA signal description can be made more clear
[02:54:18] <GNieport> While you're here, how is the hardware ESTOP pin used on the 5i20? I see a pin for it in HAL, but I cannot find out how to define what input is used for the ESTOP, or what pin it defaults to
[02:56:04] <GNieport> m5i20.0.estop-in
[02:56:14] <GNieport> but it is commented out in the default INI
[03:02:14] <GNieport> PeterW: On the 7i33 manual, perhaps just add a reference under ENABLE INPUT to the connector for which it applies, the same as is done under the ENABLE OUTPUT
[03:02:41] <PeterW> Not sure how thats used, but I looked at the firmware and it has no specific EStop circuitry, so that must be a HAL feature
[03:02:52] <GNieport> Great, thanks!
[03:03:51] <GNieport> Will you entertain one more question? :)
[03:04:25] <GNieport> How is the watchdog put to use with EMC
[03:09:15] <PeterW> There is watchdog firmware in the FPGA configuration, how its enabled I do not know.
[03:09:17] <PeterW> I do know that it disables the PWM outputs (sets them all to 0)
[03:11:26] <StepDir> I'm getting a "joint 2 following error". Can anybody help me out with this?
[03:11:57] <StepDir> I'm running a stepper system
[03:13:18] <cradek> StepDir: this means you are requesting a velocity that is higher than the possible step rate
[03:14:13] <StepDir> ok, I'll try a setting that lower.
[03:15:32] <cradek> if you can reduce your microstepping multiplier that will be the biggest help
[03:15:48] <cradek> (software step pulse generation is sometimes a bit limiting)
[03:16:19] <Gamma-X> hey cradek can u help me out real quick, i cant seem to figure out wich wires are what on my connector. Can i send u this and u help me out? i have the connector in my room right now and id like to wire this thing up.
[03:16:50] <Gamma-X> i should have specified * send u the schematic*
[03:17:05] <cradek> I'll try but I doubt I can do better than you, since it's in your hands
[03:17:26] <Gamma-X> true
[03:17:29] <Gamma-X> whats ur email
[03:18:17] <cradek> use imagebin?
[03:18:36] <Gamma-X> its a pdf
[03:18:43] <Gamma-X> wate i can do it
[03:18:45] <Gamma-X> hold on
[03:19:14] <cradek> then anyone else can help too
[03:19:55] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/13227
[03:20:14] <cradek> oh I remember this image :-)
[03:20:20] <cradek> "FXTFR START"
[03:20:28] <Gamma-X> wich of these would be used. im using the whole connector that is already wired up so it should be easy if i need to add in another wire if we dont get it.
[03:21:39] <cradek> um, what do you mean which would be used?
[03:21:52] <Gamma-X> well i know not all of the wires will be used.
[03:22:24] <cradek> you have to figure out what they do and how they work...
[03:22:59] <Gamma-X> well thats why im askin for a bit of help right now to get a basis to go on.
[03:23:37] <cradek> well for example I have no idea what "L-AUX 8" and "K-COINCIDENCE" do - you are in a better position to figure this out than I am
[03:23:55] <cradek> you may or may not need to do something with them - I have no idea
[03:23:55] <Gamma-X> haha.. i figured that much so....
[03:23:59] <Gamma-X> dop u have mesa cards?
[03:24:10] <cradek> well in a drawer, not in use yet
[03:24:19] <Gamma-X> ahhh ok
[03:24:28] <Gamma-X> im tryin to figure out where i wire up the servos 2.
[03:24:50] <Gamma-X> on the 7i33
[03:24:51] <GNieport1> G-X, are you using the 7i33 also
[03:24:54] <GNieport1> ah
[03:24:58] <Gamma-X> yes sir
[03:25:10] <cradek> doesn't the 7i33 manual say how to wire it?
[03:25:12] <Gamma-X> 7i33 and the 7i37 tied into a 5i20
[03:25:17] <Gamma-X> vaguely
[03:25:48] <GNieport1> Do you have the 7i33 datasheet
[03:26:11] <Gamma-X> nope
[03:26:16] <Gamma-X> not available i believe
[03:26:51] <GNieport1> http://mesanet.com
[03:26:58] <GNieport1> it's there, I just opened it
[03:27:09] <GNieport1> click motion control on the left
[03:27:21] <GNieport1> scroll to 7i33 and save the files
[03:27:23] <Gamma-X> the data sheet? or the manual
[03:27:35] <GNieport1> sorry, i spoke wrong
[03:27:48] <GNieport1> the manual, page "5" shows the connector map
[03:28:17] <Gamma-X> the manual i got. just tryin to figure out what the things are like x0 where +5v comes into play etc
[03:29:17] <GNieport1> Well, ENCA0 ENCB0 go to your scale
[03:29:35] <GNieport1> AOUT0 goes to teh servo amp analog input
[03:29:57] <Gamma-X> the scales im not touchin just yet because i need a data sheet on them for the pinout so im workin on this 50 pin cable, that about all i have to work on now.
[03:30:31] <GNieport1> so you can connect AOUT and GND
[03:30:42] <Gamma-X> ok...
[03:30:45] <Gamma-X> sweet
[03:31:01] <Gamma-X> GNieport did u look at that schematic i put on imagebin?
[03:31:08] <Gamma-X> brb gettin wire strippers! YAY
[03:31:22] <GNieport1> ENA is a 5V out signal to tell the amp to enable output, if you need one
[03:32:04] <GNieport1> i did not, i was switching to the machine shop when yopu were pasting hte link
[03:35:31] <Gamma-X> ok
[03:35:35] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/13227
[03:38:11] <GNieport1> any other abbreviations i might help with?
[03:38:28] <Gamma-X> anything on that schematic hahah
[03:40:06] <GNieport1> i'll have to look later, i have 20 mins to try this 7i33
[03:40:25] <Gamma-X> ok
[03:41:04] <GNieport1> if you want to private message me your email, i'll get back to you
[03:41:23] <Gamma-X> ok.
[03:47:15] <dmess> hi all
[03:48:14] <Gamma-X> hey dmess
[03:49:04] <dmess> sup gamma... i'm just getting in from skiing... what a nite... ; ) full moon and -24 C
[03:49:44] <Gamma-X> nice wear at?
[03:49:58] <Gamma-X> where*
[03:50:07] <dmess> Little local place Dagmar... in Whitby ontario
[03:51:40] <dmess> brought my youngest son he was the snowboarding contingent... LOL... lazy lot.. sitting in the snow at the top of every run...
[03:53:49] <dmess> http://www.skidagmar.com/
[04:01:45] <Gamma-X> wow the mesa connectors have small screws i cant find anything small enough! lol
[04:02:51] <GNieport1> What's is a typical PID proportional value for a servo-driven ballscrew? I'm up to 120,000 and still no error correction
[04:03:23] <cradek> that sure seems wrong
[04:03:28] <GNieport1> !
[04:03:31] <GNieport1> yeah :)
[04:03:47] <cradek> it depends on your scaling
[04:03:51] <GNieport1> 1.0
[04:04:11] <GNieport1> encoder scale is 40,000
[04:04:24] <cradek> pid output is a velocity - ideally it will have about the same scaling as the real machine velocity
[04:05:03] <GNieport1> my INI output scale is 1.0. I have the servo amp set to max velocity at 10 volts
[04:05:59] <cradek> you should get full output pretty darn fast at that P gain then
[04:07:57] <GNieport1> Perhaps I'm doing this wrong. Should EMC servo to the current position as soon as Machine On is commanded? The analog output has 0.2 volts of noise offset. EMC doesn't seem to want to correct and so the axis keeps creeping.
[04:08:34] <cradek> yes, as soon as machine-on, it should hold position
[04:08:40] <cradek> maybe pid enable is not hooked up?
[04:08:46] <GNieport1> hmm
[04:08:48] <cradek> you'll have to debug with halmeter etc
[04:08:55] <GNieport1> okay!
[04:09:47] <cradek> I think you should set machine-off to disable the amps so you don't get the creep
[04:10:16] <cradek> (I guess if you have gravity problems machine-off should activate brakes too)
[04:10:46] <Gamma-X> i cant believe this still no screw driver....
[04:11:06] <GNieport1> oh, it is a horizontal slide. I find that pid.0.enable is linked to Xenable
[04:16:20] <GNieport1> Xenable is true when machine is on
[04:17:59] <GNieport1> is there a pin that shows the PID compensation command?
[04:18:32] <GNieport1> pid.0.error?
[04:18:56] <cradek> pid.N.error float out
[04:18:56] <cradek> The difference between command and feedback.
[04:19:01] <cradek> (man pid)
[04:20:10] <GNieport1> thanks
[04:22:07] <jtr> Gamma-X: That's probably lady luck telling you you aren't ready to hook anything up yet. There are too many things about your machine that you don't know yet.
[04:22:23] <Gamma-X> ehh
[04:22:27] <Gamma-X> gotta start somewhere.
[04:23:00] <jtr> Gamma-X: First, you don't have drawings of the machine wiring, only the control interface.
[04:23:06] <jmkasunich> start with a hardwired estop switch in your hand
[04:23:55] <GNieport1> i have the estop, servo off and panel off switches at my left hand
[04:24:26] <jtr> The good news is that you can use that drawing to reverse engineer the control wiring of the system and make your own drawings.
[04:24:38] <Gamma-X> jtr shouldnt eb hard
[04:24:39] <GNieport1> anyhow, the pid.0.command pegs immediately when i switch the machine on
[04:24:42] <Gamma-X> its mostly in my head
[04:25:34] <cradek> GNieport1: with that P gain that sounds right
[04:25:47] <GNieport1> er, i meant pid.0.output
[04:26:06] <GNieport1> pid.0.command stays at whatever position the encoder first read
[04:26:14] <cradek> seems like that should move the axis (fast)
[04:26:19] <jmkasunich> yep
[04:26:24] <GNieport1> so i suppose the 7i33 is still suspect.
[04:27:09] <GNieport1> This would be much easier if the garage wasn't 10 degrees F
[04:27:15] <GNieport1> :)
[04:27:19] <cradek> ah man that sucks
[04:27:43] <cradek> I just put 8kW of heat in my (new) shop for that reason
[04:28:02] <GNieport1> i hope to
[04:28:17] <cradek> now sometimes it feels cool when I come inside
[04:28:50] <GNieport1> i mostly want to keep the machine from sweating
[04:29:23] <cradek> I'm not sure what that takes - keep it above freezing always?
[04:29:41] <jmkasunich> keep it above the dew point
[04:30:00] <GNieport1> probably, 40 degrees I can handle. Last week the mill had drips onto the floor
[04:30:08] <cradek> ouch
[04:30:16] <jmkasunich> which can be hard on the first warm day of spring, when the puddles and melting snowbanks make for 95% humidity and 50F temps, and the iron is still at 30F
[04:30:17] <cradek> hope it's oiled or waxed
[04:30:35] <GNieport1> lots of wlithium grease spray
[04:30:49] <jmkasunich> BTDT - including the drips
[04:31:14] <cradek> I guess it's no worse than running coolant over it, as long as you don't let it stay wet too long
[04:31:39] <jmkasunich> you don't spray coolant inside the motors, gearboxes, electrical boxes, etc
[04:31:59] <jmkasunich> and coolant has rust inhibitor
[04:33:42] <jmkasunich> its a simple fact - unheated shops sucketh mightily
[04:33:48] <jmkasunich> only thing worse is no shop
[04:34:11] <Gamma-X> kroll oil!
[04:37:02] <jtr> Gamma-X: look at P2 on your drawing - you can see one side of the limit switch connections. Z(+) LIMIT goes to one side of a Z limit switch - where is the other side of that limit switch connected? These are the kinds of things you MUST know.
[04:38:43] <jtr> If I had your machine, I would start by sketching out the control cabinet, showing the locations of the amps, relays, terminal strips, etc.
[04:39:11] <GNieport1> cradek: I have AXIS open. If I choose Reload, will edits to my INI file take effect?
[04:39:20] <cradek> no
[04:39:28] <cradek> that only rereaads the gcode
[04:39:33] <GNieport1> ah
[04:39:37] <cradek> ini is read at emc startup
[04:43:51] <GNieport1> is it possible to change OUTPUT_OFFSET through HAL
[04:44:39] <cradek> ./m5i20/m5i20_motion.hal:setp m5i20.0.dac-00-offset [AXIS_0]OUTPUT_OFFSET
[04:44:46] <GNieport1> oh goody
[04:45:06] <cradek> it's just an ini entry that gets read into a hal param
[04:45:27] <GNieport1> where did you find that string? it's quite informative
[04:45:41] <cradek> it's in the hal file, I just grepped them to see what you were talking about
[04:52:24] <GNieport1> Is the m5i20 dac pin in units of volts? I notice I can set it much higher than 10, for example. What value could I write to it that would be sure to send out a 100% PWM signal?
[04:53:15] <jtr> Gamma-X: From there, break the job into smaller pieces. You have a servo amp for the X axis; sketch the connections on the amp and figure out where every wire goes. You'll have power in, output to the motor, feedback from the tach, and control signals.
[04:54:43] <cradek> GNieport1: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_drivers.html#r1_5_2
[04:54:54] <cradek> there is a dac gain parameter
[04:55:05] <cradek> full output would depend on that
[04:55:19] <cradek> gain + offset
[04:57:09] <jtr> 'night all, bedtime.
[04:57:12] <cradek> this shows how scale,offset work: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_general_ref.html#r2_4
[04:57:13] <Gamma-X> jtr thanks. the limits are all on that connector, and all the connections come out of this 50 pin connector, i have the female of that connector wired up already on my desk. ill talk to u tomorow.
[04:57:14] <GNieport1> bye
[04:57:34] <cradek> If enable is true, read scale, offset and value and output to the adc (scale * value) + offset. If enable is false, then output 0.
[05:00:05] <GNieport1> Okay, I did find all of that. How is the situation of dac set to 50 handled? Just output maximum adc value?
[05:01:03] <cradek> yes I'm sure it's just capped and doesn't do anything strange
[05:03:05] <cradek> volts = (*(pDac->pValue) - pDac->offset) * pDac->gain;
[05:03:18] <cradek> hmm, I don't think this matches the spec
[05:03:32] <cradek> but it is capped right afterward
[05:06:51] <cradek> goodnight all
[05:06:55] <GNieport> bye
[06:59:01] <usman> hi everyone!
[07:01:58] <usman> I want some help regarding changing the User Interface of emc. Actually i want to change the "axis" interface, for that I found the "/usr/share/axis/tcl" files now I require an easy editor for tcl language
[07:02:34] <usman> Can you guide me an easy to use editor by which I can change the axis interface
[07:13:48] <usman> Can you guide me an easy to use editor by which I can modify the "axis" interface of emc
[07:19:34] <toastydeath> arrg
[07:19:43] <toastydeath> i've got a mechanical iris drawn up in solidworks, and it opens and closes
[07:19:48] <toastydeath> but it doesn't have the movement i want
[07:27:25] <usman> Can anyone guide me for an easy to use editor by which I can modify the "axis" interface of emc
[07:42:25] <usman> Can anyone guide me for an easy to use editor by which I can modify the "axis" interface of emc
[07:44:16] <toastydeath> i thought tcl was all done by hand and had no graphical editor
[07:45:10] <toastydeath> thus, you can't edit axis unless you learn tcl
[07:45:41] <jmkasunich> usman: any text editor
[07:45:54] <usman> yes
[07:46:30] <jmkasunich> use whatever editor you like
[11:35:18] <Guest261> Hi anybody there?
[11:36:09] <archivist> no
[11:36:38] <archivist> just ask and lurk someone will answer
[11:38:53] <Guest261> o.k. newbie here, is it posible with emc to slave to servos?
[11:39:30] <archivist> yes it can use servos
[11:42:35] <Guest261> I'm planning a big gantry router with a big x axis and I want to use two servos
[11:43:45] <Guest261> is it posible with emc to slave them?
[11:44:23] <archivist> what do you mean by slave, as emc can easily work with servos
[11:45:05] <archivist> ah two servos 1 axis
[11:45:54] <kwaj> i am looking for hal pid component source code. Where can i find it?
[11:46:29] <Guest261> yes 1 axis two servos!
[11:47:59] <archivist> Guest261, what Ive seen so far is 1 drive and toothed belt to connect the two screws, I dont know about your situation
[11:49:20] <archivist> but I imagine treating 2 axis as one would be little problem
[11:51:27] <Guest261> from what I read, with steppers its easy but with servos you need closed loop.
[11:53:23] <Guest261> Since emc is capable of closed loop control I was hoping that someone might tested.
[11:54:15] <archivist> I would expect ineraction between the two, so a single drive and belt could be a lot better
[11:54:26] <archivist> interaction
[11:55:20] <Guest261> Yes that's the problem.
[11:59:19] <archivist> I would try x1,x2 and command them the same, tuning would be a bitch as both need doing at the same time
[12:00:22] <Guest261> what you mean x1,x2?
[12:00:48] <archivist> have two separate loops
[12:01:36] <archivist> both need to be well on top of the job so one does not lag the other and jam the gantry
[12:01:56] <archivist> specially when the load is one side
[12:03:40] <Guest261> excuse my ignorance but by separate loops tou mean sepapate drives?
[12:05:48] <archivist> yes if x2 was slaved off current x1 position then some twist and possible oscilation
[12:06:37] <archivist> Guest261, yes you wanted separate drives
[12:07:02] <Guest261> o.k. I have them.
[12:07:16] <archivist> are you expecting one servo driver two motors
[12:13:18] <Guest261> exactly how does the closed loop control works?
[12:16:20] <archivist> hmm homing could be a disaster unless both x's have scales
[12:25:30] <micges> hi alll
[13:41:18] <alex_joni> archivist: just fyi.. there are a couple of configs with emc2 and synched joints
[13:41:34] <alex_joni> gantrykins is a special kinematics that helps with that
[13:41:53] <alex_joni> the whole stuff works properly, the only issue and a real can of worms is homing the machine
[13:41:56] <archivist> ah ok that helps with questions like that
[13:42:21] <archivist> yes I thought homing would be a bitch
[13:42:31] <alex_joni> homing a gantry is a very special thing..
[13:42:53] <alex_joni> you need to drive the axes synched as they are now, homing the first of them (hitting limit switch, index pulse, whatever)
[13:43:18] <archivist> scales on both, jog till straight, home gently
[13:43:19] <alex_joni> then driving them synched and homing the second one (limit switch, index pulse, whatever)
[13:43:31] <alex_joni> scales only help if they are absolute
[13:43:36] <archivist> yes
[13:43:49] <alex_joni> I don't remeber absolute scales beeing hooked up to any emc2 use-case
[13:43:52] <archivist> thats what Im assuming in that case
[13:44:12] <alex_joni> I don't say it can't work or doesn't exist.. I just haven't seen any yet
[13:44:35] <alex_joni> absolute scales (and abs encoders) are a PITA because of proprietary interfaces usually
[13:44:56] <eric_U> doubt anyone has used them w/emc yet
[13:44:58] <alex_joni> some protocol over some serial link (RS4xx on older ones), Canbus, whatever
[13:45:18] <alex_joni> eric_U: I don't completely doubt it.. but I haven't heard about it
[13:45:34] <alex_joni> I'm sure there are people out there doing all kinds of crazy things with emc/emc2
[13:45:48] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all! Just to let you know that there is scheduled maintenance taking place tomorrow; Monday 21st between 1200 and 1400UTC -- affected servers will be zelazny and niven and we encourage you to server hop prior to the downtime! Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
[13:45:51] <alex_joni> but they are cluefull enough to not need the help to get things like these going
[13:47:20] <archivist> heh one does need a cluestick for machine building
[13:48:02] <alex_joni> archivist: right, and there are people with big cluesticks and cluepoles out there
[13:49:14] <archivist> * archivist needs a 4mm tap right now, 2nd axis can then be mechanically tested
[13:51:21] <archivist> found it hiding at the back of the bench
[13:52:12] <alex_joni> nice
[14:17:48] <eric_U> I've been cleaning up. It's like going shopping.
[14:18:14] <eric_U> except I already paid all the bills
[14:20:37] <archivist> oooo I dont need to buy a new xxxxx,yyy,zzz, it was in the pile!
[14:21:02] <archivist> allen keys being a good example
[14:21:27] <eric_U> I have a lot of allen key sets
[14:21:51] <eric_U> I need another couple of toolboxes
[14:21:52] <archivist> all with one size missing?
[14:22:17] <eric_U> I only have one with one size missing, it nags at me
[14:22:39] <archivist> I bought yet another set of allen keys last week
[14:22:49] <eric_U> I thought about it:)
[14:23:02] <archivist> and boss turned up with another set as well
[14:31:46] <eric_U> one of the motors I was watching on ebay has a tachsyn feedback device -- hard to find a drive that uses those
[14:31:54] <eric_U> it's over $300
[14:32:39] <eric_U> I'd really like to know if the 6 bidders know what they are doing
[14:41:19] <BigJohnT> in linux how do you search the whole hd for a file?
[14:41:40] <eric_U> find
[14:41:43] <eric_U> locate
[14:42:00] <BigJohnT> can it be that simple slap on forhead
[14:42:13] <eric_U> I can never remember the syntax
[14:42:25] <archivist> locate has a database so it can be fast
[14:43:37] <BigJohnT> do I have to cd up to root to search the whole drive
[14:44:06] <archivist> not for locate
[14:44:36] <BigJohnT> wow locate is fast, thanks
[14:44:45] <jtr> find . -name '*.py' or find / -name '*.py' - but you can get lots of messages about not having permissions.
[14:44:50] <archivist> as it looks in its database not trawl the drive (needs updating now and again)
[14:46:50] <jtr> if you start at root - not sure how to fix that.
[15:15:05] <Jymm> BigJohnT: Periodically, you have to run "updatedb" as root and that will, well, update the database that the locate command uses. Especially after you install an application and they place the config file in a funky location and you can't find it =)
[15:16:01] <alex_joni> Jymm: as long as you remember the name of the config file :D
[15:16:23] <alex_joni> Jymm: you pasted a link of an eth KVM a couple days/ weeks ago.. would it be so that you still have that?
[15:16:54] <Jymm> alex_joni: Yeah, are you looking for one?
[15:20:11] <Jymm> alex_joni: Now, I haven't gotten mine back from RMA yet, In transit - fscking UPS, So I havne't had a chance to play with it yet. Here's the link http://www.kvm-switches-online.com/0su51068.html
[15:20:34] <Jymm> http://www.minicom.com/kvm_smartipaccess.htm#c
[15:21:35] <Jymm> alex_joni: The docs say it requires IE, so I'm not sure, but it's an older model and I don't know if that's still a reqquirement
[15:22:04] <alex_joni> ok, thanks
[15:22:46] <Jymm> alex_joni: just curious, or?????
[15:23:23] <alex_joni> Jymm: wanna see first if I can locate some around here
[15:23:28] <alex_joni> and if it's not too many $$$
[15:24:11] <Gamma-X> hello all
[15:25:40] <Jymm> alex_joni: There are a lot of different ones with some neat features. So looking around first. Some have a Java iface so it's os independant.
[15:36:58] <BigJohnT> Jymm: thanks
[15:37:48] <BigJohnT> Hi Gamma
[15:38:05] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT howdy
[15:38:14] <Gamma-X> im still tryin to get this schematic thing...
[15:38:25] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/13227
[15:38:46] <Gamma-X> Jymm u any good with readin a schematic?
[15:39:34] <BigJohnT> my other brother John is good with them but he is at his house
[15:39:50] <Gamma-X> u have a brother names john?
[15:39:53] <Gamma-X> the same as u
[15:40:39] <BigJohnT> he is my business partner and we are both named john so it's a joke with us
[15:41:41] <BigJohnT> his strength is electrical and mine is programming plc's and design
[15:41:46] <Gamma-X> lol brb smokin time, if anyone has a mesa and can help tell me what on this schematic gets hooked up please elt me know.
[15:53:43] <eric_U> hey Gamma-X, did you write down my guess at that schematic?
[15:54:26] <eric_U> you are going to have to trace some of those wires inside the cabinet
[15:55:30] <eric_U> do you have a picture inside the cabinet? It would make things a lot easier
[15:56:22] <eric_U> You should be able to trace out the limit switches without too much problems, you need to actuate them and see what those lines do
[15:56:37] <alex_joni> bbl
[16:04:31] <Gamma-X> eric_U the limit switches go directly into the control....
[16:04:49] <Gamma-X> a + and a - line, for each
[16:05:05] <eric_U> you mean they go into the other box that you're getting rid of?
[16:05:42] <eric_U> so your main question is the servo amps?
[16:06:16] <Gamma-X> yes, and i took the connector with all the wiring out of the old control so i just need to figure out wich wire is what, limit switches i know what those wires are.
[16:06:25] <Gamma-X> pretty much...
[16:07:02] <eric_U> I'm pretty sure that those are almost self-explanatory, but I would like to know what kind of amps you have
[16:07:25] <Gamma-X> im using the original amps of the crusader II system.
[16:07:33] <Gamma-X> they still run fine.
[16:07:46] <eric_U> what fer inputs do they take?
[16:07:54] <Gamma-X> fer?
[16:08:11] <eric_U> that's southern for "what inputs do they take?"
[16:08:27] <Gamma-X> hahaha. +-10v
[16:08:38] <Gamma-X> luckily same as the 7i33 can output
[16:09:25] <eric_U> do you know the requirements for servo off and reset?
[16:10:05] <Gamma-X> unfortuanatly no...
[16:10:13] <Gamma-X> but the wires are on the connector for that.
[16:11:13] <SWPLinux> that schematic doesn't seem to identify what's an input and what's an output
[16:11:25] <SWPLinux> nor does it say whether things are active high or active low
[16:11:27] <eric_U> you are going to have to figure out what the amps want for the servo off line, it's almost surely the enable line
[16:11:53] <SWPLinux> (or indeed what the logic voltages / type are)
[16:12:05] <eric_U> that's why I'm asking him about the amps
[16:12:28] <eric_U> sounds like the limit switches can be handled however he wants
[16:13:22] <eric_U> he probably could get the amp information from the guy that gave him the schematic
[16:13:38] <Gamma-X> gerald bouvier at anilam
[16:13:49] <Gamma-X> im sure hell know. but cant call cause its sunday
[16:14:03] <eric_U> do the amps have a legend on their inputs?
[16:14:36] <Gamma-X> they might..... ill have to go out and look, anything else i can look for so i dont have to trek to and frow the garage
[16:14:39] <SWPLinux> also that schematic doesn't say anything about optos (ie, current signal or voltage signal)
[16:15:18] <eric_U> can you take a picture of the inside of the box?
[16:16:16] <archivist> Gamma-X, time for a network cable to the garage
[16:16:31] <Gamma-X> the lines that came from the control hook into a pcb
[16:16:38] <Gamma-X> realy hard to trace them.
[16:16:53] <Gamma-X> lol its cold as shit out there! haha
[16:16:58] <SWPLinux> take a close-up photo of both sides of the PCB
[16:16:59] <eric_U> are your amps just a pcb?
[16:17:09] <archivist> bring the mill indoors
[16:17:15] <eric_U> funny
[16:17:16] <SWPLinux> make sure the IC numbers are visible
[16:17:24] <SWPLinux> yeah - no joke
[16:17:41] <SWPLinux> leave it in the garage long enough and you'll need to grind off the rust ...
[16:17:50] <eric_U> I think he posted a schematic of some internals earlier
[16:17:51] <SWPLinux> (condensation is a bitch for garage-housed mills)
[16:18:00] <Gamma-X> eric u yes amps are pcb's
[16:18:27] <jtr> Are Z(+) limit and Z(-) limit connections from two separate switches, or are they two ends of a a series string like Gamma-X said?
[16:18:41] <jtr> -a
[16:19:13] <eric_U> I just managed to crash firefox again
[16:21:15] <Gamma-X> http://www.industrial-electronic-repair.com/manufactures/comment_threads.php?postID=290
[16:21:19] <Gamma-X> that may be of help.
[16:23:45] <tomp> is the pcb really big? (>12"x12") ? http://www.martincnc.com/westamp_servo_amp.htm suggests that amp is for all 3 drives on one pcb
[16:24:43] <Gamma-X> there are 3 seperate boards for each axis
[16:24:45] <Gamma-X> and yes there big
[16:24:58] <Gamma-X> after further searching they could be glentek
[16:25:30] <tomp> get pix
[16:25:31] <tomp> thx
[16:25:53] <Gamma-X> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-26817.html
[16:26:01] <Gamma-X> pics wont do much honestly.
[16:26:06] <Gamma-X> ill take a look real quick
[16:26:21] <eric_U> the ones that I've seen from later were glentek
[16:26:33] <eric_U> but I dunno about circuit boards
[16:27:17] <eric_U> pics would help us not ask stupid questions
[16:29:04] <eric_U> does he have a crusader II?
[16:32:34] <jtr> I think he said so -not that I'm familiar with either of them.
[16:38:16] <eric_U> the link on cnczone is from an obviously confused person, that info is off the motors
[16:38:30] <eric_U> I saw somewhere that there are enable relays
[16:40:05] <Gamma-X> wow
[16:40:17] <Gamma-X> its cold! lol this amp board feels like ice! but i brought one inside
[16:40:32] <Gamma-X> its a westamp
[16:41:02] <Gamma-X> 30060-75
[16:41:57] <eric_U> does it have j3 and j4 on it?
[16:42:15] <tomp> a lot of contcts for crusader repair, maybe a manual would be valuable http://www.mmsonline.com/dp/forums/forum_post_message.cfm?t_id=3920&f_id=97&m_type=thread&pub=MMS
[16:42:23] <tomp> is this a pic ? http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/CNC-Mill-Westamp-Servo-Card-6-Switches_W0QQitemZ350005230798QQihZ022QQcategoryZ41941QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
[16:42:51] <Gamma-X> yup
[16:45:28] <gezar_> gamma how is your machine retrofit comming?
[16:45:48] <Gamma-X> gezar_ ehhhh
[16:45:53] <Gamma-X> could be better
[16:46:03] <tomp> label the picture using gimp. Put on it the connector designators that you see. imagebin that edited pic
[16:46:06] <gezar_> you havent broken anything right?
[16:46:20] <Gamma-X> nope.
[16:46:46] <Gamma-X> tomp u reffering to what i see going to the baord?
[16:46:56] <tomp> yes
[16:47:27] <tomp> we cant read any designators on that ebay pic, you can read the real thing
[16:47:47] <Gamma-X> there arnt realy any on it
[16:47:57] <Gamma-X> but there are like j1
[16:48:00] <Gamma-X> j3
[16:48:07] <tomp> yes, that stauff
[16:48:10] <tomp> stuff
[16:48:20] <Gamma-X> theres only 4 connectors j1 through j4
[16:48:23] <Gamma-X> still want me to edit it?
[16:48:58] <tomp> describe it using the ebay pic as ref for top left etc
[16:49:04] <Gamma-X> on that pic top left is j1 and clock wise it goes to j4
[16:49:34] <Gamma-X> j1 is the big in top left, j2 is small un used, j3 is small and used, and j4 is the big one on the right.
[16:51:38] <tomp> a guess: J1 is control J2 is unused J3 is ac power in J4 is motor out ( appears to have a switching p/s built onto the pcb ) does this J1,J3,J4 allign to any schmatic you have?
[16:51:47] <jtr> From the pic, looks like the four left-hand pins on J4 are connected together, is that correct?
[16:52:22] <tomp> (yeh, like 2 pin pairs used for heavier current )
[16:53:13] <jtr> that's what I'm thinking - 4 right hand pins also probably in parallel for the other motor terminal.
[16:53:35] <Gamma-X> yes
[16:53:45] <Gamma-X> hey sorry to cut u short on this i got 2 new comptuer i gotta pick up for the mill.
[16:53:51] <Gamma-X> ill be back in an hour.
[16:54:00] <Gamma-X> if u guys would like feel free to keep talkin about that.
[16:54:26] <tomp> :-)
[16:54:40] <Gamma-X> i realy appreciate the help
[16:54:42] <Gamma-X> thanks!
[17:27:46] <eric_U> j3 looks to be +- 15v only
[17:27:55] <eric_U> j4 goes to motor and power supply
[17:29:13] <eric_U> the schematic he has shows the stinking wire color, not function
[17:30:39] <eric_U> what a pain
[17:40:32] <tomp> not a schematic, is a 'cartoon'
[17:55:49] <eric_U> it would be fine as a schematic if the individual pieces were on another schematic
[17:57:44] <archivist> I get a joint3 following error if my gcode is run first but not if I run arcspiral.ngc first then mine
[17:57:58] <archivist> what have I missed ?
[18:26:36] <archivist> hmm seems starting with g1 without a preceeding g0 causes that
[18:29:53] <fretless85> hello
[18:31:59] <cradek> archivist: does that first g1 have an f word?
[18:32:09] <archivist> yes
[18:32:55] <cradek> sounds like a bug - can you put together minimal steps/gcode to reproduce it so I can fix it? - I have to run for a few hours though
[18:33:24] <fretless85> i got a problem running emc2 on ubuntu 7.1 64bit, someone got time to look in my emc2 error "log"?
[18:33:58] <archivist> cradek yup ok will take out fixes later , just testing a new axis
[18:36:28] <fretless85> ?
[18:37:17] <jmkasunich> fretless85: nobody is gonna promise to help you, especially without any idea of what the problem is
[18:37:36] <jmkasunich> post your info on pastebin and post a link here - then people can look before they have to leap by talking to you
[18:37:49] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/emc2errorlog <---error log from emc2
[18:38:20] <jmkasunich> segfaults
[18:39:18] <jmkasunich> in halcmd
[18:39:26] <jmkasunich> I assume that you built the kernel and RTAI?
[18:39:37] <fretless85> yes
[18:39:45] <fretless85> i am new to linux...
[18:39:56] <fretless85> dl a rt kernel
[18:40:04] <jmkasunich> if you are new to linux, why aren't you using our recommended kernal and OS?
[18:40:18] <jmkasunich> building a kernel is not beginner stuff - building RTAI is even more so
[18:40:31] <fretless85> patched it with the hal patch
[18:41:00] <fretless85> yea i read about the live cd with ubuntu and emc2
[18:41:14] <archivist> livecd just works TM
[18:41:58] <jmkasunich> very few of the emc developers build RT kernels - it is a pain, it is difficult to get right, and even experts usually have to make several attempts
[18:42:19] <jmkasunich> unless you have some really good reason (and as a linux beginner you probably don
[18:42:21] <jmkasunich> oops
[18:42:33] <jmkasunich> unless you have some really good reason (and as a linux beginner you probably don't), stick with the precompiled kernel
[18:44:26] <fretless85> http://www.britishideas.com/2007/11/07/how-to-install-emc2-on-unbuntu-710-gutsy-from-scratch/ look at this link thats the way i did it
[18:45:14] <jmkasunich> from that site: "It will either be a great learning experience or a very frustrating waste of time."
[18:45:27] <fretless85> yea
[18:45:42] <jmkasunich> I've never tried that process. I'm not sure if anybody here has
[18:46:12] <jmkasunich> also from that site: "There is a small problem with these instructions. For an unknown reason EMC2 will only run as root. If you try to run it as a regular user then the program “halcmd” will fail with a segmentation fault"
[18:46:24] <jmkasunich> your logs indicate that halcmd is failing with a segmentation fault
[18:46:32] <jmkasunich> coincidence? I think not
[18:46:44] <jmkasunich> are you running as root or as a regular user
[18:47:06] <fretless85> root
[18:47:13] <jmkasunich> note that with our packages and kernel you do NOT need to run as root, and we strongly recommend against it
[18:47:26] <fretless85> sudo /usr/local/bin/emc
[18:47:34] <jmkasunich> the fact that you need to run as root when following those instructions mean those instructions are missing something
[18:47:42] <jmkasunich> phone, hang on
[18:47:47] <fretless85> okay
[18:48:23] <jmkasunich> back - damned telemarketers
[18:48:41] <fretless85> wb
[18:48:54] <BigJohnT> on sunday to boot
[18:49:13] <jmkasunich> charity soliciters actually
[18:49:24] <jmkasunich> I'm on the do-not-call list, so I don't get that many business ones
[18:49:51] <fretless85> hrhr
[18:49:58] <jmkasunich> anyhow - I've never tested those instructions on that webpage, and I don't know enough about kernel building to comment on their correctness
[18:50:41] <archivist_emc> cradek test case here emc from cold http://rafb.net/p/j4hoSO82.html
[18:51:12] <fretless85> kernel seems to work tho
[18:51:37] <fretless85> no error i got the tests running smooth
[18:51:40] <jmkasunich> "seems" to work is a very limited test on something as complex as a RT kernel
[18:51:57] <fretless85> no rtai errors
[18:52:08] <fretless85> i testet it
[18:52:17] <fretless85> no crashs no errors
[18:52:25] <jmkasunich> but it gets segfaults when you run halcmd - that is both a crash and an error
[18:53:01] <fretless85> i guess i have to pass on it...
[18:53:08] <jmkasunich> it is possible that the error is in halcmd, but somehow doesn't happen with our kernel, but there is no way for me to verify that since it runs fine on my kernel
[18:53:13] <jmkasunich> and I'm not about to build a kernel
[18:53:42] <fretless85> i just want to test emc my mill isnt finished atm
[18:54:00] <jmkasunich> use the livecd, or install ubuntu 6.06 and then install emc2
[18:54:07] <jmkasunich> why do things the hard way?
[18:54:23] <fretless85> no idea ;)
[18:54:38] <fretless85> thanks anyway!
[18:56:08] <fretless85> maybe the bring out an kernel for the 7.1 sometimes...anyway i got to mill some parts for my diy mill at work...that will take some time ;)
[18:56:21] <fretless85> btw sry for my bad english and grammar
[18:56:24] <jmkasunich> we will be doing another kernel for 8.04
[18:56:41] <jmkasunich> 8.04 is an ubuntu LTS (long term support) release
[18:56:57] <jmkasunich> your english is fine - I didn't know you were from .de till I saw the url
[18:57:04] <fretless85> okay
[18:57:08] <fretless85> thanks :)
[18:58:06] <fretless85> i dont like the gcode...
[18:58:32] <fretless85> i hated it since i got it in school...
[18:59:11] <fretless85> is anything planed on getting emc to understand other cnc languages?
[18:59:22] <jmkasunich> not at the moment
[18:59:42] <jmkasunich> but the g-code interpreter is in theory modular enough to allow it to be replaced with something else
[19:00:04] <fretless85> i would love to programm in heidenhain
[19:01:08] <fretless85> does this interpreter work like a postprocessor?
[19:01:33] <jmkasunich> I'm not an expert on the interp, I work mostly on the motion controls stuff
[19:01:51] <jmkasunich> but I believe the interp converts g-code into calls to a set of canonical functions
[19:02:08] <jmkasunich> any alternative interpreter would need to call the same canonical functions
[19:02:22] <fretless85> ah okay ive read about it in the wiki but, somehow i dont get it^^
[19:02:29] <jmkasunich> lists of the canonical functions can be found if you search the documentation
[19:03:57] <Gamma-X> im back
[19:04:01] <fretless85> wb
[19:04:13] <Gamma-X> got 2 computers. a p3 1 ghz, and a p4 1.4 ghz,
[19:05:48] <Gamma-X> a tnt agp card and the other has a ati rage 128mb card
[19:05:52] <fretless85> would be cool if you could programm in other languages by hand...im so used to heidenhain
[19:09:39] <fretless85> but how programms by hand...and who knows how to programm by hand...
[19:09:50] <fretless85> how=who
[19:09:59] <eric_U> I would have thought that heidenhain was gcode
[19:10:22] <fretless85> no
[19:10:34] <eric_U> is it some kind of visual programming?
[19:10:42] <fretless85> heidenhain?
[19:10:46] <eric_U> yes
[19:10:49] <fretless85> cnc controll
[19:10:57] <fretless85> language and company
[19:10:59] <eric_U> I know that, how do you program it?
[19:11:25] <fretless85> at work i programm by hand
[19:11:51] <fretless85> no cad/cam
[19:12:14] <fretless85> ah now i got you
[19:12:17] <fretless85> pardon me
[19:12:25] <fretless85> no visual programming
[19:12:29] <fretless85> text
[19:12:43] <fretless85> called "klartext" on the heidenhain
[19:13:09] <fretless85> on the tnc530i (the newest heidenhain) you got smartTNC
[19:13:54] <fretless85> snartTNC is visual like shopmill from siemens
[19:13:57] <eric_U> I see why you wouldn't want to learn a different method, but it's worth it
[19:14:47] <fretless85> i programm much faster per hand than i can draw something in a cad...
[19:15:11] <fretless85> ok beside of 3d jobs
[19:18:36] <fretless85> btw thats a heidenhain http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/test/New%20Image10.JPG
[19:20:15] <Vq^> i have created a converter from heidenhein to gcode, it far from complete thought
[19:20:31] <fenn> * fenn squints
[19:21:32] <fretless85> i guess just for the "klartext" ? no cycles and no q parameters right?
[19:21:47] <eric_U> I thought Heidenhain controls were sharper looking than that
[19:21:55] <Vq^> no cycles but support for q parameters
[19:22:30] <fretless85> @eric lol
[19:22:41] <Vq^> cycles should be fairly trivial to add thought
[19:22:58] <fretless85> yea cycles are q parameter programms basicly
[19:23:05] <Vq^> ok
[19:24:10] <fretless85> thats the machine to the control http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/test/New%20Image2.JPG
[19:25:33] <Vq^> http://arda.no-ip.org/h2iso/
[19:28:56] <fretless85> nice vq
[19:30:10] <fretless85> when you need a hdh "geek" let me know :P im pretty handy with that control
[19:30:50] <Vq^> i happen to know a hdh geek irl actually :)
[19:31:10] <fretless85> y?
[19:31:28] <Vq^> y??
[19:31:30] <fretless85> ive done own cycles and mfunktions and some plc stuff
[19:32:05] <fretless85> +q programming fetishist
[19:32:05] <Vq^> ok, sounds like you know that system inside out then
[19:32:56] <fretless85> yea i planning to become a plc/nc guy for hdh
[19:33:27] <Vq^> i got a bit confused about hdh's LBL CALL
[19:33:32] <fretless85> why?
[19:34:15] <Vq^> i wasn't sure what the effects of it were
[19:34:32] <fretless85> LBL CALL calls a subprogramm (do u call it like that? in german its "unterprogramm")
[19:34:44] <fretless85> a LBL
[19:35:09] <fretless85> you can call it everytime the programm gets on that spot with CALL LBL only
[19:35:21] <fretless85> you can call it with replications
[19:35:32] <fretless85> CALL LBL REP??
[19:35:44] <Vq^> yeah, REPs was the problem
[19:35:59] <Vq^> it modifies some memory associated with the row if i understand it correctly
[19:36:05] <fretless85> dont forget to set LBL0 at the and of the lbl if u want to got back to the call
[19:36:40] <fretless85> yea somehow
[19:37:13] <fretless85> if you CALL LBL REP it will overread LBL0
[19:38:15] <Vq^> you mean it will skip past LBL0?
[19:38:34] <fretless85> yes
[19:39:08] <Vq^> so it never returns to a CALL LBL row that has reduced it's REP value to 0
[19:39:42] <fretless85> yes
[19:40:03] <fretless85> you got to do that in an other way
[19:40:56] <Vq^> im mostly interested in calculating the effects of a heidenhein program, not actually coding it ;)
[19:41:07] <fretless85> ;)
[19:41:10] <fretless85> okay
[19:41:20] <Vq^> as a programmer i feel more comfortable with EMCs O-codes
[19:42:13] <fretless85> and as a milling machine operator i feel more comfortable with the hdh :)
[19:42:50] <fretless85> you got the itnc530 demo from hdh?
[19:43:01] <fretless85> with plc
[19:43:07] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/test/Farben.jpg
[19:44:04] <Vq^> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#cha:O-Codes
[19:44:40] <Vq^> q-value heavy program :)
[19:45:02] <fretless85> yea thats an m funktion
[19:45:10] <Vq^> nice to see that they use X
[19:45:58] <fretless85> pardon me but they use what?
[19:46:15] <Vq^> O-codes uses keywords similar to C, do, while, break, if
[19:46:33] <Vq^> they use the X Window System in that screenshot you showed
[19:47:14] <fretless85> yea thats the demo from heidenhain
[19:47:38] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/test/Wanne-Q-Gitter.jpg
[19:51:38] <fretless85> thats a casting mould i did for a friend
[19:51:58] <fretless85> they got no cam at work...so 3d programming is a bit tricky
[19:52:44] <fretless85> btw. plz correct me if i make a mistake in grammer or righting
[19:53:14] <fretless85> or wrighting?! no idea sorry^^
[19:53:19] <Vq^> writing :)
[19:53:30] <fretless85> ok no gh
[19:53:40] <fretless85> thanks :)
[19:54:31] <Vq^> noprob, i'm not a native english-speaker myself so don't trust me to get every word right :o)
[19:54:41] <fretless85> i cant write in german tho lol ;)
[19:54:50] <jmkasunich> it would be nice if there was some logic to english spelling
[19:55:13] <archivist> nevar
[19:55:18] <fretless85> lol
[19:55:32] <Vq^> maybe we should just start talking in lojban :)
[19:55:47] <fretless85> ich kann auch auf deutsch schreiben aber das versteht dann keiner
[19:55:58] <fretless85> :)
[19:56:15] <Vq^> * Vq^ förstår nästan vartannat ord
[19:56:24] <archivist> * archivist eats a cake, another axis working under emc control
[19:57:00] <jmkasunich> 2 down 12 to go?
[19:57:13] <archivist> hehe 2 more
[19:57:36] <fretless85> vartannat=understand?
[19:57:48] <jmkasunich> you are going to have to post pics when you are done - I think you are the first to do gears with emc
[19:58:23] <archivist> jmkasunich, nah there is a pic somewhere of someone else
[19:58:46] <jmkasunich> that doesn't get you off the hook
[19:59:06] <archivist> jmkasunich, Im also writing a canned gcode program generator to go with it
[19:59:23] <jmkasunich> nice
[19:59:37] <archivist> markus 1 is actually web see able
[20:00:49] <archivist> www.archivist.info/gear
[20:01:01] <archivist> very buggy unfinished
[20:01:37] <archivist> needs modding after todays discoveries
[20:02:14] <jmkasunich> neat
[20:02:35] <jmkasunich> a suggestion - put the input parameters (teeth, count, target machine, etc) in comments at the start
[20:03:03] <fretless85> ive done a q parameter programm for gears on the heidenhain ;)
[20:03:51] <archivist> jmkasunich, more to do yet, its not checking for nearest module cutter etc
[20:04:00] <jmkasunich> understood
[20:04:23] <fretless85> for the boring mill at work with the spinning table (do you call it like that?!)
[20:04:34] <archivist> jmkasunich, just no way Im going to type out gcode every time!
[20:05:00] <jmkasunich> fretless85: not sure what kind of a machine you mean - can you find a picture?
[20:05:17] <fretless85> mom
[20:07:14] <jmkasunich> vertical turret lathe? http://hcfgears.com/product_files/general%20machinery/Grey%20VTL.jpg
[20:07:28] <fretless85> no boring mill
[20:07:40] <fretless85> in german its called bohrwerk
[20:08:05] <jmkasunich> boring mill here usually means horizontal spindle, not spinning table
[20:08:26] <jmkasunich> horizontal boring mill: http://www.stlwtr.com/Toshiba01.JPG
[20:08:48] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/test/RIMG1108.JPG
[20:09:09] <fretless85> horinzontal boring mill with rotating table
[20:09:22] <jmkasunich> oh, ok
[20:09:51] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/test/RIMG1107.JPG with big gearbox on it
[20:09:53] <jmkasunich> when you said "spinning" I thought you mean the table spins to make cuts
[20:10:24] <jmkasunich> the english term is usually "rotary table" for a rotary axis like that
[20:10:25] <fretless85> no my bad sry
[20:10:41] <jmkasunich> np
[20:11:07] <eric_U> nice looking machine, you work on that?
[20:11:12] <tomp> Vq^: whats the language used in hs2iso? it looks python-esque ( i use Heidenhain 416's at work )
[20:11:36] <fretless85> some times mosty im on the shw moving column
[20:11:38] <Vq^> tomp: it's Haskell
[20:11:53] <tomp> thx
[20:11:58] <eric_U> can't believe you don't use cam for that
[20:12:05] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich procrastinates - I need to do some work on the mill in the garage
[20:12:23] <fretless85> <---355 408 426 430 530 at work @tomp
[20:12:28] <jmkasunich> its 11F out there - up from 5F yesterday
[20:12:58] <fretless85> wait eric got some nice parts 4 you...no cam btw
[20:13:21] <tomp> fretless85: but no heidenhain edms ;-) (306 406 416)
[20:13:42] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/IMG_0015.jpg check that out
[20:14:01] <jmkasunich> wow
[20:14:03] <jmkasunich> what is it?
[20:14:24] <tomp> beautiful! cores?
[20:14:30] <fretless85> its called haspelfalle in german no idea how to translate it
[20:14:58] <jmkasunich> what is it used for?
[20:15:08] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/IMG_0014.jpg
[20:15:17] <eric_U> if you don't use cam for that, your company needs to look into buying a seat of mastercam :)
[20:15:52] <fretless85> its for coiling sheet metal
[20:16:04] <jmkasunich> oh, ok - I think I've seen those
[20:16:19] <jmkasunich> the part is steel, right? (looked like aluminum in the first pic)
[20:16:35] <fretless85> thats steel
[20:17:22] <fretless85> forged high-grade alloy steel
[20:17:43] <fretless85> 4 of them sitting on an axle
[20:18:09] <fretless85> with these things yea can spread it (right word?!)
[20:18:17] <fretless85> get the sheet coiled on it
[20:18:30] <fretless85> than despread it so you can get the coil down
[20:18:38] <eric_U> so it's part of an expandable mandrel
[20:18:41] <jmkasunich> yep
[20:18:52] <fretless85> eric we dont need an cam...
[20:18:55] <jmkasunich> http://www.maneklalexports.com/Photos/SmallScale/CorrRollFormDeCoiler.jpg
[20:18:58] <jmkasunich> like that
[20:19:10] <fretless85> programming by hand is faster
[20:19:33] <fretless85> yea something like that
[20:19:48] <fretless85> wanne see the coupling nut for that?
[20:19:57] <fretless85> i mean for the axle...
[20:20:16] <tomp> heidenhains language (dialogs) very powerful, much shorter than gcode
[20:20:30] <fretless85> right...
[20:20:51] <fretless85> i would kill myself if i had to program that in gcode
[20:21:42] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/test/RIMG1047.JPG coupling nut
[20:22:00] <jmkasunich> hard milling?
[20:22:05] <jmkasunich> or grinding?
[20:22:40] <fretless85> y hard milling
[20:22:53] <fretless85> on the other side it got hirth teeth
[20:23:40] <fretless85> that thing weights about 4t
[20:24:30] <fretless85> btw got something for you jmkasunich
[20:24:37] <tomp> i want a B axis with hirth gears, unstack , twist, reclamp, perfect position to seconds rotation
[20:24:49] <fretless85> http://mitglied.lycos.de/fretless85/test/RIMG1372.JPG
[20:27:10] <tomp> were you inside the work area when you took that picture?
[20:27:39] <fretless85> no
[20:27:43] <fretless85> open bed mill
[20:27:58] <fretless85> no housing (right word?!^^)
[20:29:00] <tomp> good enuf word
[20:29:05] <tomp> nice work
[20:29:20] <fretless85> housing sucks when you got big parts
[20:30:06] <tomp> does that gear use your Q program?
[20:30:25] <fretless85> no
[20:30:39] <fretless85> the program is for the boring mill with the rotary table
[20:30:56] <fretless85> that q program is just for one teeth
[20:31:29] <fretless85> and the head is turned with cycle19 and call the teeth program
[20:31:44] <tomp> ah, emc does/did have some parametric programming tools. i cant remember the name, but it was a tcltk subsitution with mini editor.
[20:31:49] <tomp> cycle 19 = plane?
[20:31:54] <fretless85> hope you understand my technical english is even worse that my normal english
[20:31:59] <fretless85> yea plane
[20:32:10] <alex_joni> fretless85: nice stuff
[20:32:10] <fretless85> in germal its bearbeitungsebene schwenken
[20:32:36] <alex_joni> tilting plane
[20:32:38] <fretless85> german
[20:32:44] <fretless85> yea tilting plane thx
[20:34:15] <jmkasunich> how do you rotate the workpiece to do the teeth on the bottom?
[20:34:39] <fretless85> manual
[20:34:39] <tomp> see the block on end? it might be the 0 degree reference
[20:34:46] <fretless85> lose the clamping and turn it
[20:34:49] <archivist_emc> hmm just slightly bigger than the gear miller I'm making!
[20:35:03] <alex_joni> fretless85: and make sure you turn exactly 180 degrees :)
[20:35:16] <jmkasunich> thats what I was thinking - no indexer or anything, just turn and align using some reference
[20:35:24] <jmkasunich> looks like 120 degrees actually
[20:35:27] <alex_joni> probably the fresh-cut teeth
[20:35:32] <jmkasunich> that thing on the end looks like a triangle
[20:35:48] <fretless85> right jmkasunich
[20:36:19] <fretless85> thats the reference
[20:36:22] <jmkasunich> I've used a similar trick to cut aligned keyways on both ends of a 6foot (~2meter) shaft even though my mill table is less than 3 feet long
[20:36:33] <jmkasunich> used a reference, and a machinists level
[20:36:51] <jmkasunich> level it, cut one keyway, loosen, slide down, level again, clamp, cut other keyway
[20:37:29] <micges> hi all
[20:37:39] <fretless85> btw www.fooke.de we build milling machines thats where i work ;)
[20:37:53] <alex_joni> hi micges
[20:38:23] <jmkasunich> fretless85: those 5-axis heads - the motor is inside the head, right?
[20:38:28] <jmkasunich> direct drive to the spindle?
[20:38:56] <fretless85> yea right on free spinning heads
[20:39:10] <fretless85> the ones with hirth teeth turn with the spinde
[20:40:49] <fretless85> geared drive to the spindle
[20:41:14] <fretless85> by cone gears (you know what i mean?!)
[20:41:38] <jmkasunich> I'm googling to learn what hirth teeth are - looks like face teeth
[20:41:42] <tomp> haha the traveling bridge looks like it has 100meter travel
[20:42:07] <tomp> hirth gears , not a gear, but thats the name, used to locate angles very precicely
[20:42:10] <fretless85> yea its face teeth
[20:42:29] <jmkasunich> tomp: like the old moore super precision dividing tables
[20:42:50] <tomp> unstack, twist & restack the teeth?
[20:42:54] <jmkasunich> yep
[20:42:55] <fretless85> no tomp we build max 80000mm in X
[20:43:05] <tomp> 80 meters !
[20:43:13] <tomp> woosh!
[20:43:19] <fretless85> with linear drives
[20:43:28] <fretless85> at 60000mm/min rapid
[20:43:34] <tomp> thats a short electric railroad :)
[20:43:41] <fretless85> sry cant deal with non metric ;)
[20:43:49] <archivist_emc> get out the way!!
[20:44:31] <alex_joni> 60m/min = 1m/sec
[20:44:42] <fretless85> the machine will let you know when you are in the way beleave me^^
[20:44:46] <archivist_emc> * archivist_emc carries on at the other end of the scale
[20:45:08] <tomp> fretless85: i gotta go, please come visit again
[20:45:12] <tomp> bbl
[20:45:25] <jmkasunich> fretless85: the reason I was asking about spindle motors is that I'm trying to make a small and cheap 5 axis machine for myself
[20:45:28] <fretless85> bye! take care
[20:45:48] <jmkasunich> I have a 1kW 5000RPM servo motor, and a suitable spindle shaft with bearings
[20:46:01] <jmkasunich> but connecting them results in a larger than desired head
[20:47:36] <fretless85> hm
[20:47:45] <fretless85> thats not easy
[20:48:00] <jmkasunich> I'm planning on one rotary axis in the head - two would be to complex
[20:48:06] <fretless85> the fooke machines got a 400kg head
[20:48:09] <jmkasunich> I'll have a rotary table on the main table for the 5th axis
[20:49:11] <fretless85> i would go for cone gears for the head
[20:49:19] <jmkasunich> even for high speed?
[20:49:35] <fretless85> how much rpm?
[20:49:45] <jmkasunich> up to 5000 RPM, maybe more
[20:49:49] <fretless85> the fooke heads got the spindle in the head
[20:50:10] <fretless85> but they are made to run up to 60000rmp
[20:50:19] <jmkasunich> direct drive, right? front spindle bearings, then motor rotor, then back bearings
[20:50:26] <jmkasunich> they also cost $$$$$$
[20:50:40] <fretless85> yes they do
[20:51:05] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: http://www.isapc.it/public/oM8.JPG
[20:51:17] <jmkasunich> my spindle is 40mm dia shaft, front bearings 68mm OD, back bearings 60mm OD, approx 125mm between front and back bearings
[20:51:34] <jmkasunich> motor is about 120mm x 120mm x 200mm
[20:51:53] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: is that direct drive?
[20:52:02] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: dunno :) looked nice though
[20:52:06] <jmkasunich> yes
[20:52:24] <fretless85> depends on the machine...
[20:52:35] <archivist> looks really nice that head
[20:52:40] <fretless85> look @the kw
[20:53:22] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: 12000 RPM.. I suspect it's direct drive
[20:53:25] <alex_joni> http://www.isapc.it/prodotti/meccanico/view.html
[20:53:36] <jmkasunich> alex: I agree
[20:53:48] <jmkasunich> this uses the geared approach: http://jmkasunich.com/vannorman/VN_12_Horiz.jpg
[20:54:07] <jmkasunich> (not designed to change angle while running)
[20:54:09] <fretless85> http://www.zayer.es/productos/detalleProducto.asp?id=91#
[20:54:26] <fretless85> you see a zayer head on the pic with the gear
[20:54:42] <alex_joni> well.. I'm off to bed
[20:54:45] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:54:47] <jmkasunich> goodnight alex
[20:55:05] <Vq^> alex_joni: g'dnite
[20:55:13] <fretless85> http://www.shw-werkzeugmaschinen.de/2006/deutsch/maschinen/ufz6lkoepfe.htm
[20:55:14] <fretless85> shw
[20:55:17] <fretless85> good night
[20:55:42] <jmkasunich> fretless85: I'm definitely not going to try to do B and C in the head
[20:55:50] <jmkasunich> B alone will be difficult
[20:55:55] <jmkasunich> I'll do C with a rotary table
[20:55:57] <fretless85> i agree
[20:56:01] <fretless85> i got you
[20:56:10] <fretless85> just want to share some pics
[20:56:30] <fretless85> http://www2.bimatec.de/uploads/pics/ortho_hf_02.jpg
[20:56:43] <alex_joni> fretless85: wenn du mal hilfe mit emc2 oder aehnliches brauchst, da gibt es noch ein forum bei cncecke.de
[20:57:31] <micges> good night alex
[20:58:50] <fretless85> @jmkasunich maybe i can get some technical drawings of the heads at work
[20:59:14] <jmkasunich> fretless85: it seems like all of them are direct drive
[20:59:36] <jmkasunich> which won't work since they use custom motors that I can't afford
[20:59:56] <jmkasunich> one moment, I'll take a photo of the parts I have so far
[21:00:02] <fretless85> just to get some ideas... maybe it helps
[21:00:06] <archivist> * archivist contemplates homebrew motors
[21:01:20] <jmkasunich> fretless85: yes, ideas are what I'm looking for
[21:02:01] <archivist> by modifying a standard motor boring out and putting a hollow spindle in and fittine new endplates with sensible bearings
[21:02:40] <jmkasunich> archivist I've considered that - but the motor I have has a permanent magnet rotor
[21:03:16] <jmkasunich> I think no matter how hard I tried to protect it, it would have metal chips all over it if I did any machining of the shaft or rotor itself
[21:03:25] <fretless85> that rules that out
[21:03:25] <archivist> im thinking of a induction motor and vfd hack
[21:05:09] <archivist> hmm boss has a stack of old stuff downstairs in the basement
[21:05:35] <dave_1> now that things have slowed down a bit ... does anyone know if at_pid needs initial values set
[21:06:07] <jmkasunich> dave_1: peteV is the at_pid expert
[21:06:16] <jmkasunich> I dunno if anyone here has used it, I haven't
[21:06:20] <jmkasunich> fretless85: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/spindle-and-motor.jpg
[21:06:31] <dave_1> I think skunkworks
[21:06:32] <jmkasunich> the ruler is ~150mm long
[21:06:34] <dave_1> has
[21:06:43] <tomp> jmkasunich: edm the rotor ( edm is used to machine magnets , and i have no experience doing it tho )
[21:07:05] <tomp> no chips
[21:07:48] <dave_1> still you get small stuff ... micron sized that clings to the magnets
[21:07:54] <archivist> magnetic sludge though
[21:08:11] <dave_1> dang difficult to get off
[21:08:38] <tomp> if cleaning is the problem, then its just sweat equity
[21:09:15] <lerman> jmkasunich: and I had a discussion about DIY motors (google outrunner). Lots of HP in a small space.
[21:09:51] <lerman> jmkasunich: What do you plan to use for low backlash on a rotary table?
[21:10:07] <jmkasunich> I have an 8" news (japan) rotary that is pretty decent
[21:10:59] <lerman> Does pretty decent mean less than .001 or so at the 4" radius?
[21:11:27] <jmkasunich> haven't tested it, but it is adjustable (the worm can be moved towards/away from the gear
[21:11:52] <jmkasunich> its good quality, similar to troyke or such I believe
[21:12:06] <dave_1> It is one thing if you set an orientation and clamp and another if you need dynamic accuracy with reversal
[21:13:20] <tomp> eccentric tube around worm allows closer/further from ring gear
[21:14:08] <jmkasunich> tomp - I've seen that design - this one has the entire worm assy pivoted around a point near where the worm handwheel goes
[21:14:16] <tomp> ah
[21:14:33] <lerman> My understanding is that this also involves a worm that is designed for this use.
[21:14:39] <jmkasunich> anyway, the rotary is pretty turnkey for the 5th axis
[21:14:47] <jmkasunich> its the head with the 4th axis thats the trick
[21:14:58] <dave_1> indeed
[21:15:09] <jmkasunich> the options are (I think, unless I'm missing something)
[21:15:13] <tomp> there are some web projects for nutating heads, do you already have links?
[21:15:17] <tomp> diy
[21:15:34] <tomp> (goes to archives)
[21:15:35] <jmkasunich> 1) mount motor and spindle parallel (as in my pic) and belt them together, then tilt that assy
[21:15:51] <jmkasunich> 2) somehow bore out the motor rotor and mount it on the spindle, then tilt that assy
[21:16:10] <jmkasunich> 3) use spiral bevel gears, and tilt the spindle only, around the motor shaft axis
[21:16:31] <archivist> thats a nice small motor doesnt look big enough to bore out
[21:16:53] <jmkasunich> the motor bearings are 17mm and 20mm ID
[21:17:03] <jmkasunich> shaft seems to be about 25mm
[21:17:16] <jmkasunich> I've had it apart ;-)
[21:17:38] <dave_1> what plans for tool holding?
[21:18:02] <jmkasunich> the spindle has an HSK taper in it (complete with spring loaded drawbar)
[21:18:19] <jmkasunich> I'm thinking of boring it to R8 though - I have several spindles that I got cheap, so I can experiment
[21:18:19] <dave_1> nice start
[21:18:31] <jmkasunich> HSK tooling is $$$$$
[21:18:34] <lerman> How man rpm for that spindle/bearings?
[21:18:44] <lerman> many
[21:18:56] <jmkasunich> not sure, but probably pretty high
[21:18:59] <fenn> it's not hardened? or you're going to use a new piece of stock?
[21:19:14] <jmkasunich> fenn: gonna experiment with hard turning, and eventually grinding
[21:19:20] <fenn> oh. yum
[21:20:03] <jmkasunich> the spindles were "return for repair" when I bought them - most are tagged with the problem
[21:20:16] <jmkasunich> things like "badly worn spline" (see the end of the one in the pic)
[21:20:22] <jmkasunich> or "bent drawbar"
[21:20:38] <jmkasunich> all of the ones I have seem to have OK bearings
[21:22:28] <jmkasunich> I believe I can shorten the motor by at least 25-35mm - there was a resolver in the back housing, but I can't use that anyway - I can replace it with a US digital encoder that is much shorter, and make a new back cover
[21:23:26] <jmkasunich> I think I could belt the spindle to the motor and have a head that is 180mm x 140mm x 250mm or so
[21:25:37] <fretless85> not that big...
[21:25:49] <jmkasunich> thats the goal
[21:25:54] <jmkasunich> the machine isn't going to be big
[21:26:03] <fretless85> travels?
[21:26:08] <jmkasunich> the table that the motor and spindle are setting on is the machine table
[21:26:13] <jmkasunich> 300 x 600mm table
[21:26:23] <fretless85> k
[21:26:31] <jmkasunich> I'd like travels to cover the whole table, and about 250mm Z
[21:26:56] <fretless85> im planing on a moving column mill x1200y360z160
[21:27:11] <jmkasunich> nice
[21:27:27] <jmkasunich> three axis?
[21:27:46] <fretless85> mostly polymer concret
[21:27:47] <archivist> z is a bit small at 160
[21:28:17] <tomp> one diy nutating head is the kiwi (cnczone, gotta be a registered member http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showgallery.php/ppuser/1117/cat/500 ) and rab of rainnea has another design. neither seem to be as big as your motor tho.
[21:28:20] <fretless85> maybe a A axis on the table
[21:28:31] <jmkasunich> my goal is to be able to move the machine - not easily, but possible - in pieces
[21:28:31] <archivist> I find tools and packing vices etc take up such a lot
[21:28:40] <jmkasunich> the table weighs about 55kg
[21:29:02] <Gamma-X> hey everyone
[21:29:06] <fretless85> hey
[21:29:14] <Gamma-X> whats up.
[21:29:16] <archivist> heh my much smaller is already "heavy"
[21:29:39] <jmkasunich> tomp: I see - gears
[21:29:58] <jmkasunich> I've gone as far as finding a source for ground spiral bevel gears
[21:30:04] <jmkasunich> a pair is about $300
[21:30:25] <jmkasunich> I have no idea what speed they would be good for - haven't talked to the supplier about that yet
[21:30:38] <fretless85> stepper driven machine?
[21:30:41] <fretless85> or servos?
[21:30:49] <jmkasunich> fretless85: undecided at this point
[21:30:56] <tomp> old troyke's that are real cheap? for parts?
[21:31:07] <jmkasunich> for a small hobby machine, rapid speeds aren't critical
[21:31:15] <fretless85> ive scored 3 uhus last week for 80€
[21:31:32] <tomp> i saw one c axis that got rid of backlash by using 2 worms and they 'fought' each other ( constant tension )
[21:31:41] <Gamma-X> how can i find out the vltg for the servo off line of my amps?
[21:32:08] <lerman> What do you know about the servo?
[21:32:21] <jmkasunich> my servo?
[21:32:28] <jmkasunich> AB 1326
[21:32:33] <Gamma-X> no myne
[21:32:33] <jmkasunich> 1kW 5000 RPM
[21:32:35] <Gamma-X> my servo amp
[21:32:45] <lerman> No -- Gamma-X 's servo
[21:32:57] <Gamma-X> its a 300600-75
[21:33:27] <Gamma-X> the amp
[21:33:34] <Gamma-X> a westamp
[21:34:16] <lerman> Can't you just look up the motor specs?
[21:34:33] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/13227 this is the schematic for my servo amp box, this is going to connect to the emc computer.
[21:34:33] <jmkasunich> I think he is asking about the logic levels on some enable line
[21:34:42] <Gamma-X> yes but i want to know what voltage the on off is.
[21:34:58] <jmkasunich> how the heck are we supposed to know that?
[21:35:01] <lerman> Oh.. I thought he was asking about the voltage to the motor.
[21:35:15] <Gamma-X> jmkasunich just trying to talk about it to find out how i can find out
[21:35:28] <jmkasunich> Gamma-X: are you talking about P7 pin 9 or 10?
[21:35:42] <tomp> Gamma-X: post the link to the ebay pic again, and get the docs from one of the vendors in the list previously posted. that will tell you the voltage of the control signal.
[21:35:51] <Gamma-X> p2 and p7 will hook into my mesa cards
[21:35:52] <jmkasunich> (thats a shitty pic btw, looks like it was scaled and some pixel rows got lost
[21:36:06] <tomp> its the only pic
[21:36:38] <tomp> but Gamma-X is holding a real one in his hands
[21:36:38] <Gamma-X> http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/CNC-Mill-Westamp-Servo-Card-6-Switches_W0QQitemZ350005230798QQihZ022QQcategoryZ41941QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
[21:36:42] <gezar> nice, ive got a much better setup now, then what ive had, a lot more desk room, and easier access to the keyboards, gonna take some getting used to but should prove well worth it
[21:37:09] <gezar> gamma-x you know that the pdf files for those servo drives are on the net right?
[21:37:33] <Gamma-X> i tried lookin quickly couldnt find anything..
[21:37:58] <tomp> gezar: i think not, i couldnt goggle em up, do u have link?
[21:38:12] <gezar> im going to relook, I found some once, and gave gamma the links
[21:38:37] <tomp> Gamma-X: search the archives and keep the links
[21:38:40] <gezar> its not really the westamp part you wanna search for, there is another name
[21:39:42] <tomp> old logs at http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/
[21:40:00] <tomp> bbl
[21:42:35] <jmkasunich> I've procrastinated about as long as I can - out into the garage for me
[21:42:37] <jmkasunich> brrrrrrrr
[21:43:30] <gezar> http://www.cmcsystems.com/techtips_westamp.html
[21:43:36] <gezar> is ont link I think
[21:46:36] <gezar> ive got it
[21:46:43] <gezar> j1 is as follows
[21:46:50] <gezar> pin 1, sig in aux
[21:46:58] <gezar> pin2 signal in standard
[21:47:05] <gezar> pin3 signal input tach
[21:47:13] <gezar> pin4 current sense output
[21:47:24] <gezar> pin 6-7 limit switch overtravel
[21:47:35] <gezar> pin8 electronic shut down indication output
[21:47:46] <gezar> pin 9 common for pins 6 7 and 8
[21:47:58] <gezar> ping 10 positive 15vdc bias for ext use
[21:48:01] <gezar> j2
[21:48:13] <gezar> pin 1 post 15vdc supply input
[21:48:18] <gezar> pin 2 common
[21:48:28] <gezar> pin 3 neg 15vdc supply input
[21:49:00] <gezar> hmm, no point in going on really, im not seeing the control signals on this one as I go down but here is the link
[21:49:21] <gezar> http://cnczone.com/fourms/archive/index.php/t-17510.html
[21:49:33] <gezar> im doing this on another comp so if it doesnt work let me know
[21:49:59] <jmkasunich> typo: http://cnczone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-17510.html
[21:50:21] <gezar> thank you jmk, that should give gamma enough I think dont you guys?
[21:51:13] <gezar> at the least he can shoot al_the_man some emails
[21:51:59] <fretless85> damn no more cigarrets... :(
[21:55:54] <Hugomatic> Hi guys, I have a question about image-to-gcode. It's great and I can build simple curved surfaces in minutes using only the Gimp, but I need precision for a part. Do you know of editor or a 3D package out there that can export these kind of bitmaps?
[21:57:15] <SkinnypuppY34> " damn no more cigarrets... :( " Thats usually my motivation to leave the machines and go to the store
[22:01:24] <fretless85> gna
[22:01:33] <fretless85> i get some when i drive to work tomorrow
[22:02:19] <fretless85> im not that addicted ;)
[22:02:46] <Hugomatic> I think I may have found a way: Exporting as a Heightmap, using Blender.
[22:07:59] <fenn> blender is not exactly "precision" but better than trying to use gimp
[22:11:09] <Gamma-X> hahaha someone just passed out in my house and the ambulance and police came.
[22:12:54] <Hugomatic> fenn: right, and I think I can only get 256 levels of gray. I am not sure image-to-gcode can do better. Since its for big rouded surfaces, it should be OK. thanks
[22:17:33] <Gamma-X> how am i going to get power to those servo amps?
[22:17:46] <Gamma-X> a + 15v and a -15v,
[22:18:18] <gezar> you already have the power supply for all of that in the control pannel
[22:19:23] <Gamma-X> gezar so should i take the power supply and put it into the computer with emc running on it?
[22:19:31] <Gamma-X> or just use it to drive the boards? etc
[22:19:50] <gezar> just for the boards
[22:20:23] <gezar> I think you would have enjoyed your machine much better had you left it the way it was, and then after a year of using it, changed it over
[22:20:26] <Gamma-X> do u think that power supply is directly for the amps and theres no stepdowns or anything.
[22:20:41] <Gamma-X> gezar well the keyboard crashed so i had to do sumtin
[22:20:43] <gezar> but you have a lot of expensive stuff to tinker with now, and its all ultra complicated
[22:21:00] <Gamma-X> gezar yeah i realized that one already hahaha
[22:21:02] <gezar> Gamma-X: i have no idea to be honest with you
[22:24:28] <Gamma-X> im fairly certain that that is a 24v power supply so it should go from that power supply then go directly into the other power supply in the cabinet wich drives the amps.
[22:28:26] <fenn> i really doubt the servos run on 24V
[22:28:33] <fenn> it's probably for limit switches
[22:29:07] <fenn> is it really +/- 15V? its usually 10V
[22:29:51] <fenn> no wait, i dont care
[22:41:16] <Gamma-X> fenn the 24v is a power supply that is used to power teh control, then lines are ran to another power supoply/transformer wich turn it into 15v
[22:41:32] <jtr> fenn: it's not power for the servo motors - it's probably "clean" power for the opamps
[22:42:31] <jtr> the amp boards have another connector for the high current input
[22:44:11] <Gamma-X> jtr im tryin to find out how this power supply from the old control will power the 24v for the connectors
[22:53:54] <jmkasunich> my toes is froze
[22:59:43] <tomp> get a dog and some honey, coat toes, laugh & warm up
[23:00:03] <jmkasunich> lol
[23:02:43] <tomp> addendum to that westamp tuning... when all else fails, you gotta get the pots into a 'starting condition', so turn the pot in the OPPOSITE the given direction till it clicks ( end of travel on multiturn) OR you know it's at the beginning somehow.
[23:03:29] <tomp> _then_ turn N turns in the _given_ direction
[23:03:54] <tomp> (start at 0 is what the instructions didnt say )
[23:04:41] <tomp> oops he's accounted fror that, never mind ( he overturns )